Crime Weekly - S3 Ep311: Darlie Routier: The Lies That Led to a Capital Murder Charge (Part 4)

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

In the early morning hours of June 6, 1996, a frantic 911 call came in from a quiet neighborhood in Rowlett, Texas. On the line was 26-year-old Darlie Routier, who said she and her sons had been stabbed by an intruder while they slept in the downstairs family room. When first responders arrived, they found a horrific scene—six-year-old Devon and five-year-old Damon lying on the floor with multiple stab wounds, while Darlie was walking around, bleeding from several knife injuries of her own. As officers cleared the house and paramedics worked to save the victims, Darlie repeated the same story: a man in dark clothing had come into the family room, stabbed her and her children, then fled through the garage—leaving the knife behind. But as investigators began to process the scene and piece together what had unfolded in the Routier home, a new set of questions emerged—about Darlie’s version of events, the physical evidence, and what she did—and didn’t do—after the attack. We're coming to CrimeCon Denver! Use our code CRIMEWEEKLY for 10% off your tickets! https://www.crimecon.com/CC25 Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. https://www.SKIMS.com - Shop the SKIMS Ultimate Bra Collection and more! After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you! 2. https://www.TryFum.com - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY to get a FREE gift with your Journey Pack! 3. https://www.FactorMeals.com/CrimeWeekly50Off - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY50OFF to get 50% off, plus FREE shipping on your first box! 4. https://www.SkylightCal.com/CrimeWeekly - Get $30 off your 15 inch Calendar!

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So today we are diving into part four of the Darlie Routier case, the deaths of her two sons. I'm going to give you kind of a quick recap to get us back up to date, because like I said, this is part four. I know you have been following along, but just to refresh everybody, in the days following the June 6th, 1996 murders of six-year-old Devin Routier and his five-year-old brother Damon,

investigators zeroed in on their mother, Darlie, who had offered several shifting accounts of what happened, none of which seemed to match the evidence. On June 8, just hours before the boys' viewing, she was brought to the police station and gave yet another statement that didn't align with the physical evidence. As the investigation continued, questions swirled about Darley's behavior, especially after she was filmed smiling and spraying silly string on her son's grave during a birthday tribute. Meanwhile, test results from the crime scene began rolling in,

and they told a very different story than the ones the several different stories Darley had been sharing. There was no conclusive evidence that an intruder had ever been in the house, and detectives were getting ready to make an arrest. So, aside from the physical evidence not matching Darlie's story, there were several circumstantial red flags that detectives could ignore. Those have all come up already in previous parts, but I do want to recap some of the most suspicious elements just to lay it all out. First, Darlie never made an effort to stop her sons bleeding. She didn't touch them or provide first aid. Not even when she was told to do so by an officer on the 911 call or by Officer Waddell after he arrived. And later she lied and said that she had. She also

never mentioned Drake to the dispatcher. Drake was the the baby sleeping upstairs. She never mentioned him to first responders. Instead she seemed more focused on other things like the knife and how she'd touched it and might have messed up fingerprints. Detectives found that strange, especially given that her two children were dying right in front of her and she didn't know the status of her third son. Then, there were all the story changes, of which there were many. So, we will focus on the ones she told first responders in law enforcement. When the 911 call began, Darley referred to the attacker as they, even though she

later told Sergeant Walling it was a single white male possibly wearing a dark colored ball cap, blue jeans, and a black shirt. Darley told officers at the scene and later detectives at the hospital that she'd been asleep on the couch and woke up to find the assailant standing over her with a knife. She said she struggled with him and that he walked away through the kitchen and into the utility room.

She saw him drop the knife as he left through the garage. In her June 8th written statement, Darley changed her story again, this time saying she woke up because Damon was pressing on her shoulder and the intruder was already walking away. In that same statement, she wrote, quote, I walked after him and heard a glass breaking, end quote. She didn't mention the knife until she said she realized there was a big white-handled knife lying on the floor of the utility room. She said she picked it up thinking he was in the

garage. When detectives asked her to draw a diagram of the house, Darley wrote that the intruder ran away and that she ran behind him into the kitchen. She said she didn't see the knife on the floor until she came back towards the family room and turned on the light. From there, she claimed she looked across the kitchen island and saw it on the utility room floor, but, as we talked about, when detectives tried to replicate that version of events, they were unable to. They said the island was too large to see over, and the detective who tested it was

taller than Darlie. From where she stood, the knife would not have been visible at all. Darlie also gave conflicting accounts of when she realized she'd been stabbed. At the scene, she said she knew she'd been stabbed while still lying on the couch. At the hospital, she said she didn't realize it until after she picked up the knife. Then there was the issue that the wounds inflicted on Darlie were nothing like the ones suffered by Devin and Damon. Her injuries were shallow, didn't reach any vital organs, while her sons had been stabbed multiple times in the chest, lungs, and liver. So based on all of this, the police believed,

understandably, that Darlie's statements were full of contradictions. They didn't think it was possible for her to sleep through a violent knife attack that left her sons dying just a few feet away, or through multiple cuts inflicted on her own body. To them, it made much more sense that there had never been an intruder at all,

and that Darlie herself had committed the murders of Damon and Devin and While they didn't know exactly why she would have done that they didn't need a motive to make an arrest So do you want to comment on that little kind of a lot a lot to comment on so I just want to confirm The sock you had said it last week that sock had blood from Damon or Devin on it, correct? Okay, so that we know that that sock was put there after the fact. I thought about could it have been put out there before if that's not possible. Well, it could have been. I mean, it is possible, I guess.

It is possible. I will acknowledge that. But more than likely, the sock was put there after the fact. But we also went over the duration, how long it would take to bring that sock out there and get back under a minute. Couple house cleaning things. First off, the pony wall. We had kind of talked about that a little bit. I was able to find a real estate site. I provided to Shannon so she might throw some photos

up here as well. But basically the interior of that house before any of this happened. And you can clearly see that that pony wall, there's the island but there's that pony wall. And the pony wall is exactly the way I was describing it where it's like a half wall And you can it separates the living room from the kitchen, but you can also see over it So you can put stuff on top of it snacks or whatever if you have like a you know, Super bowl party or something going on you can throw the snacks up there the glass table We talked about that as well

It does appear the glass table had been tipped over and then it was put back up on on its legs By law enforcement or first responders due to you know to perform life-saving measures. There's some indications from the photos and some of the documentation that it was in fact one of the first responders that put that put that table right side up and that wasn't to disturb the crime scene but so because the area was so tight they had to get in there to work on the children so they moved the table out of the way Another random like surface level question I have but and as a last name Lavasser that can also be pronounced Lavassier Darley Routier we keep saying Routier some people say it that way. I've seen the media report it that way

I've also seen a lot of people even in the comments a Routier What what is what how do they pronounce is it R rutier? Is that the way they pronounce it? I believe it's rutier. Okay. I mean, I think it works both ways But we have a lot of people who are like it's rutier. It's rutier I would argue could be it's French so it could be pronounced rutier as well But I mean when you listen to news reports, it's rutier. I've seen a lot of media reports say rutier I've definitely seen it myself now, but there's also a lot of people who say it's rutier. We acknowledge both So if you're going with rutier, you're not wrong I've definitely seen it myself now, but there's also a lot of people who say it's Routier. We acknowledge both.

So if you're going with Routier, you're not wrong. I just know there was a significant amount of comments about it. So here I am acknowledging that I saw it in the comments. We hear you, we see you. You might hear me say Routier or Routier. We'll go with both, but I really don't think it matters. This is who we're talking about. We're not talking about a different family, so I don't think it matters.

Honestly, we're covered. We're covered. They might go by Routier. We're not talking about a different family. So I don't think it matters. Honestly, we're covered. We're covered. They might go by Routier. We don't doubt that one bit. But that was the only things that I had. I mean, listen, I mentioned it on like a little teaser and crime weekly news. There have been some developments in this case. We've had some good responses to this podcast series.

We've had a lot of listens and a lot of viewership and it got back to Darlie's team and I had Darlie's team reach out to me via some DMs I've also been in contact with I guess I'll just say it right now I'm gonna be transparent I'm not trying to hide anything Darlie's sister Darlie's sister reached out to me and wanted to point out some things that haven't been mentioned in this episode and I respect that I understand where she's coming from this may not be a surprise to I understand where she's coming from. This may not be a surprise to any of you. She obviously thinks her sister is innocent. So basically I'll tell you where it stands right now. Was this Dana? I believe it's Dana. The same sister that was staying at the house.

Yeah, I think it might be. She pronounces her name Danielle. So I mean it could be Dana. Maybe it's Dana for short. But she gave me all her information. I said, listen, Stephanie and I have no skin in the game. We don't care either way. We just want the people who killed Damon and Devin and potentially stabbed Darlie. We want them to be held accountable. There's nobody answering for these crimes yet.

We want to find the person responsible. We know the current situation without spoiling too much too here, but I told her to provide all the facts, any evidence that she has to support her sister's innocence, give us the opportunity to review it. And we may potentially set up a interview with her. I did ask to speak to Darlie directly. Uh,

and she said that based on what the legal team is working on right now, that wouldn't be possible. But I said, listen, if you want to come out here and be a voice for your sister, I'm not saying that we're going to agree with you, but we'll give you that opportunity because everybody's story deserves to be told. And everyone who's watching or listening to this can, can develop their own opinion on the matter. So we'll see if that comes to fruition,

no promises, but the offer has been put out there. So I'm waiting for her to, the last correspondence we had was, hey, provide some details as far as the things that you think are important that we need to cover or that significant improves your sister's innocence. If you provide those things, we'll go over it and we'll take it from there.

So we'll see what happens. So I just looked it up. Also, it looks like Dana was Darlie's sister-in-law sort of so okay, so what I was her actual biological sister from what I can tell Dana was married to Darren's brother Deon. Ah, okay. So sister-in-law. Yeah So this is her actual biological sister from what I'm from what I'm understanding and very nice very receptive understanding of our coverage, to be honest, like wasn't argumentative, wasn't- Aggressive or anything, yeah.

Aggressive or anything, no. She was super cool about it and like I said, we have no skin in the game, doesn't matter to us either way. If it leads to the person responsible, if it's not Darlie, we're all for it. Who wouldn't be? So we'll hear what she has to say.

She has not gotten back to me. That was on Saturday. We're recording for it. Who wouldn't be? So, we'll hear what she has to say. She has not gotten back to me. That was on Saturday. We're recording this on Monday, so I'm going to give her the week. We're planning on a five-part series here, but if this turns into part six because we're going to go over what she has to offer with an interview, we're not going to cut it short. We'll do that. I'm also looking at Dana's testimony during the trial and she says in this testimony the last time that she saw the Routier family before June 6th was about a week and a half

before and she said that she and Dion had brought Dylan to Dallas, it's a lot of D's, I assume Dylan is their son, and they stayed with them, which was a regular thing. She said we would do that quite often. We'd come up and stay for the weekend, but that weekend we had made plans to go to the Scarborough Fair because I'd never been and Dion and Darlie and Darren wanted to take me because I had never been and they took me to the state fair for the first time. Um, we had to take Dylan for that time. We had gone. We were about there for a day and a half. So I don't know if it's Dana that stayed up until the day the day this happened or if it was Danielle. But either way, I mean, there's just so much information in this case. So it's a good question to ask her. And by the way, you didn't mention this

yet, but we've obviously talked, even if Danielle doesn't participate, you've already told me like your plan is for the final part to give the other side of the story, some things that the other side says as far as potentially significant as far as Darlie's innocence is concerned. So we were already planning on doing that anyways, but this would obviously add another layer to that and we would welcome it. So Danielle's listening. I'm assuming she is. We're ready when you are and look forward to hearing from you. Absolutely. So let's continue on. On June 18th, Darlie was arrested and charged with two counts of capital murder.

She was held on a $1 million bail. A gag order was issued and prosecutors later announced that they would seek the death penalty. At a news conference following the arrest, Chief Randall Posey said, quote, the crime scene tells a story. Unfortunately, it's different than Darley's. End quote. Darren, Darley's husband, said he was completely blindsided and he believed wholeheartedly that Darley was innocent. And this loyalty actually led to major issues for Darren. In the days following the arrest, the state took custody of the routier's youngest son,

Drake, citing concerns that Darren's insistence that his wife is innocent compromises his ability to care for the infant. Temporary custody was later granted to Darren's parents, and a judge ruled that Darley was not allowed to see Drake. However, Darren was permitted to have supervised visits. In late August, a bond hearing was held, and during this hearing, multiple people testified, including law enforcement and first responders. Darren also took the stand, and this time, he had some new details to share. When asked what he and Darley were talking about on the night of June 5th before he went to bed, Darren said quote, just general information

about what was going on at work, who needed to pay us. We talked about the boys a lot, talked about her trip to Cancun, our future trips that we were having for my class reunion, my sister was getting married, we were talking about that trip, we were talking about our trip to Pennsylvania, we had a lot of future plans, end quote. So if you recall, Darren had previously said that the night before, or the night that this happened, he and Darley and the boys had been in the living room and then he took baby Drake upstairs, but before he took baby Drake upstairs, he and Darley sat on the couch and talked to each other and

he had said that they'd been arguing, and he had mentioned arguing about finances, but now that's not really what he's saying. Right. The prosecution asked whether they argued about the broken down Jaguar, and Darren said no. He said, quote, actually, it was not even really that much of a conversation, it was just that she would have liked for me to have gotten it fixed

so that she could have her pathfinder back." End quote. So obviously the pathfinder was Darley's. Darren was driving it while the Jaguar was getting fixed. When asked if they discussed a cabin cruiser boat they owned, Darren said no. And this is going to be important to know later. Darren testified that he went to bed while Darley, Devon, and Damon slept in the family room.

The first thing that woke him up was the sound of glass breaking, followed by Darley screaming. When he ran downstairs, the first thing he saw was Darley standing at the bottom of the stairs. He followed her into the family room and saw Devon lying on the floor. Darley had been yelling, Devon, Devon, Devon, as he ran down, so Darren said he went straight to him, Devon, running right past Damon without seeing him. It just gets more and more unbelievable, honestly. I mean, listen, there could have been tunnel vision there,

right? I mean, if we're to take everything at face value, I'm not here to be devil's advocate on everything. I don't want to be annoying, but I do wonder if, like, if you're hearing your one son's name being screamed out and the first thing you do when you come down the stairs is you see them in the distance. It's dark down there. Could you, could you potentially run by your son who you're not expecting to be on the

ground at your feet? Yeah, I suppose. I guess that's possible. Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't sit there and go, oh, that's ridiculous. No possible way. I just think that like, once again, we're hearing a new version of events and it's slightly different in some places

than other version of events and it's drastically different than- Well, we have talked about trauma though, right? We've talked about it and I've given some examples involving myself where I would have been certain about certain details that were literally on or off. The lights were on or off. I had a 50% shot, Stephanie Stephanie and I got it wrong. You

know, it does happen. I'm not saying it's for everybody. Everyone responds to traumatic situations differently. It's tough to put yourself in that mindset because you don't know how you're going to react until you're there. I also do want to acknowledge this, especially based on what we're about to talk about. As far as Darren's statement goes, at this point that he's, he's recounting this. He's also had multiple time and ample opportunity to talk to Darlie. And I'm sure the two of them have sat up nights talking about what happened that night. So his remembrance of events could be colored and modified based on what she told him happened.

And we've seen this before. There's an actual psychological reason for it. I can't think of it right now, but you start to believe. And we've seen this in eyewitness statements for accidents. If they hear other eyewitness statements, suddenly that other statement, portions of it becomes part of their statement, and it's not an intentional thing. It's just they're picking up on it, and they're like, yeah, that could have happened or yeah, I saw that happen. So that could be something that we're dealing with here. Correct. Can I clear the deck real quick too? Because I just want to put, I mean, we know

how you feel about this. You've been transparent about it. But I do want to say as I'm sitting here and we're at episode very early into episode four, my thought right now, just to clear the deck is that Darlie did it. But I want to say that I'm not as convinced as you are there is I don't believe it was a collaborative effort I do not believe it was Darley and Darren however I'm not completely off Darren either now was it direct or indirect may based on someone he's involved with maybe I'm just saying that I'm not sitting here going all poor Darren not yet anyways I need to know more and I will say even though I'm just saying that I'm not sitting here going all poor Darren not yet Anyways, I need to know more and I will say even though I'm being a little bit of a hypocrite when I say this Because everybody handles trauma differently just said that I don't like the way he responded in those videos either

And I think I said that so I just want to put it out there that where I am right now I know how it looks and I know how I'm speaking and how I'm responding to stuff. You guys know me by now, we've been doing this a long time, but I'm not completely off Darren. There's some issues I have with Darren and I'm looking forward to hearing more about him because not everything's lining up with him either. And if I-

Yeah, I was just gonna say that if you definitely don't believe that they're both involved with it, then you'd have to look at their interview. I just think their story could have been better if they both were, right? Yeah, I mean. That's my problem with it. Either that or they're just really bad at it. Yeah, they're not too smart, I guess.

They could have just said we were both upstairs, right? Well then how would Darlie have gotten stabbed, I guess? You know, she's, I don't know. But wait, hear me out. Devin and Damon can't speak to us. So if the intention was to kill Damon and Devin and they were in on it together, this is just being, we're all being honest here, right? You kill the kids, but then you go back upstairs

and you, when you call police, your narrative is, the boys were downstairs sleeping, we came down to this, there's no need to stab yourself, there's no need to cut yourself, there's no need to do all of that because you're in it together. It seems to me that someone was putting on an act for someone else in that house that was still going to be alive. You follow what I'm putting down here?

Yeah, I do. There seems like there was a lot more done than needed to be done if both people inside were in on what was going on. I actually completely see what you're saying. Yes. I think the act was being put on by Darlie, but the person who was in the middle of the situation. So yeah, but I see what you're saying, yes. I think the act was being put on by Darlie, but the person who was in the middle of the situation. So yeah, but I see what you're saying. Yeah.

I'm with you. And you know what? There were a lot of people who responded to my theory that this could have been a botched suicide, murder-suicide. Oh, for sure. A lot of people in the comments were like, I never thought about that before,

but that's another avenue we have to explore. Maybe the intent was for Darren to come downstairs and all three of them to be dead Yeah, it's possible. So anyways, I just wanted to put that out there where I stand right now We're more than halfway through the series. I don't want you guys thinking that this is a Darlie You know, we're just sitting here piling on to the her there's other things that we're still exploring and Darren has some Love your reaction that peeve for people can't see it She's like maybe maybe not for you. But for me, that's where I sit right now All right

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into the living room because she was yelling, Devon, Devon, Devon. He runs right past Damon. He doesn't see him. He goes to Devon lying on the floor. Now, Darren said that while he was taking care of Devon, Darley grabbed the phone and then went to the sink. She was in the kitchen getting kitchen towels out of the thing. That's what Darren said. She was getting kitchen towels out of the thing. And Darren said, I could hear the water running.

And then she brought towels over to Damon. And according to Darren, Darley laid a towel on Damon's back and at the time Darren still didn't know what had happened. Darley was on the phone with the dispatch and he was waiting for her to get off the call so he could ask but then she told the dispatcher that someone was in the garage and that was the first time he heard anything about an intruder. So once again, we know no towel was put on Damon. Darlie was there at the scene in her living room. The dispatcher told her, put a towel on your son's wound, stop the bleeding. She didn't.

The first police officer shows up and there was no towel on Damon or he wouldn't have told her to go and get a towel to put on Damon. When paramedics came, no towel on Damon. Or he wouldn't have told her to go and get a towel to put on Damon. When paramedics came, no towel on Damon. And Darley doesn't even talk about putting a towel on Damon until her written statement, which happened a few days after the murders. But now Darren is saying there was a towel on Damon. And this is what I'm saying. Either maybe he's not the brightest person, and he's talked to Darley about this so many times that she kept going over the version events and then you came downstairs and then I went and got the phone and I got a towel and I put it on Damon and so now he almost believes that that's what happened because she kept saying it so many times but we know

without a doubt there was no towel on Damon so they're both lying or there was no towel on Damon and I'm gonna provide these photos they're gonna be up on YouTube there were multiple I'm looking provide these photos, they're gonna be up on YouTube. There were multiple, I'm looking at the crime scene photos right now. I just want it to be fair, there were multiple towels scattered throughout that crime scene on the ground. So I just wanna put that out there.

I'm gonna provide them to you guys, you'll see them. Well, why would you just lay a towel on your bleeding sons back and then walk away and not put any pressure on them? When the police are telling you to do it, you don't do it and there's no towel on them when they get there. Did you take the towel off?

Like it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make sense that there was ever a towel on Damon. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I'm just trying to be transparent for the people who go, there were towels there. There definitely were towels there. We have the proof of it in the crime scene photos. You can see the blood all over the floor

and the towels are kind of just scattered on the ground beside them. Like I said if you're on YouTube I'll provide those photos for you. I'm looking at them right now I see at least, as I'm looking at it, one, two, three photos, three towels and then I see another two potentially maybe three maybe one big one and one small one or it's just three small ones. Looks like it's in the hallway, again, blood all over the place,

but just putting it out there. You can derive whatever you want from those photos. So at the time of this hearing, Darren had already met with police multiple times, but this was the first time he mentioned Darlie going to the kitchen sink or placing a towel on Damon's back. When asked why he hadn't brought it up previously, Darren said he remembered more now. He explained that when he gave his statement to police on June 8th, he had provided a general account.

Which I guess is fair, but also if you're trying to catch the person who did this to your sons, you may want to be as detailed as possible. Well, maybe Darren wasn't familiar with, you know, how these law enforcement cases go and he was shocked or whatever. But when asked if he removed the towel from Damon, since no one ever saw it there, Darren said no. He was also asked if he saw Darlie with a towel on her neck and again he said no. In fact, he claimed he didn't even know Darley had been cut until the paramedics arrived which directly contradicts Officer Wedel's account. If you recall from part one of the series, he said that when he arrived Darley was on the phone with

911 holding a towel to her neck. Darren continued with his testimony stating that he eventually went over to Damon because he realized there was nothing more he could do for Devin. And Darren said, quote, Damon's wounds weren't exposed. I didn't see any blood on him. I reached down and I touched his neck and I felt for his pulse and I didn't feel anything. End quote. When asked more about Damon's wounds, Darren said, quote, I didn't see any blood or anything wrong with him. I mean, I didn't visually see it because it wasn't like Devon's wounds, but I never lifted his shirt up or anything. I was afraid to touch him and him being in a different position than what he was in. If I would have lifted

him or picked him up, then he would, you know, I might hurt him worse than what he is. End quote. You can't, like, I really, did the, did the attacker lift Damon's t-shirt and then stab him and then put his t-shirt back over? You wouldn't see, you know, cut marks on the t-shirt or blood seeping through the t-shirt? Like, I don't know. I don't know. So Darren said that while he was with Damon, Officer Waddell arrived at the house and Darlie went to the front door to let him in. Darren explained that he did not run outside to meet Officer Waddell when he arrived, despite Waddell's claims that he did.

Darren testified that he was standing by Damon when Waddell entered and that Darley was somewhere in the kitchen, by the sink, running around like crazy. But that literally doesn't even line up with the claim he had just made in that same testimony because he said Darlie is the one that went to the door and let Waddell into the house. And then he said when Waddell entered the house, Darlie was in the kitchen running around like crazy. I mean, unless he meant she let him inside, then ran back to the kitchen. Either way, Darlie was not attending to her children, which is a problem. I don't disagree with you if you're asking my personal opinion on it. The door can be

opened, somebody knocks, then maybe. But yeah, to go out there and meet them and just leave your kid just is on a personal level. Like I'm never leaving my kid's side. I'm not leaving my kid's side. But I love when you guys tell us what you think, because sometimes you definitely offer a different perspective and it makes me rethink my initial thoughts because this is all not scripted. I'm just telling you what I think as I'm hearing it. So yeah, let us know.

I mean, are we way off here? Like, what would you do in this situation? I hope none of you ever are in anything like this, but I wouldn't leave aside that's just my opinion and just the way that even Darren and Darley are describing this trying To make it seem as if they were more attentive to the boys than they were like even it seems so distant It seems so cold and clinical like Darren said when what L arrived he was standing next to Damon I wouldn't be standing next to my child looking down at my child. I would be holding them, kneeling next to them. I would be trying to do something, anything.

I'm not a medical professional. I felt for a pulse. Dude, what are you talking about? Pulse could be faint. If there's any chance that that child is alive until a medical professional has told me there's not, I'm going to try. So he's just like, well, I felt for his pulse.

I didn't feel any. So I just stood there and looked at him. It's just weird. It's very cool like cold Clinical like as if these were not your children and and you kind of were just like maybe you ran up to a scene and you Were trying to help but you didn't know what to do So you just stood there in shock but like I mean I don't know how far the hospital is but I could see a world Where I'm I'm picking the kids up and I'm jumping in my car and I'm driving directly to the hospital

I'm not even waiting because you now you're waiting on response time. you don't know how long it's gonna take them to get there. They could be there quick now if the local law enforcement's, you know, if the police station's close by, maybe that's the better route. But yeah, I mean, depending on distance and location, I'm throwing them in the car and I'm going for it. I'm going through every red light on the way there and I'm gonna get them to the hospital as fast as possible.

And I mean, yeah, and Darren's like, I was afraid to touch him because he would be in a different position than he was in. It almost sounds like, yeah. It almost sounds like Darlie being fixated on the fact that she touched the knives. And so she may have messed with Prince. But you hear what you just said?

What? Who made that statement? Which, Darren? Yeah. Yeah, Darren. So you see where my head's at though? Yeah, I mean, I just think, I think they're both weird. I think they're both behaving weird.

If you told me, all the things you told me about Darlie, but then everything with Darren was, So you see where my head's at though? Why is he making this interesting? I think they're both weird. I think they're both behaving weird. If you told me all the things you told me about Darlie, but then everything with Darren was I came down there, I was moving shit, I was picking kids up. I was, you know, like a completely contradictory to what she's saying. I'd be like, okay, well, we have one who's on the ball and one who's not. But yeah, you're right. It's like they're both saying shit that just doesn't make sense. And so if I'm, maybe I'm wrong,

but if it's one or the other, then. We know when Officer Waddell arrived and he said to both Darlie and Darren, get cloths and put them to your boy's wounds, Darren complied and she didn't. Yeah, I mean, man, it's tough. It's a tough one. It's these two people, you may not like this,

and I know we have family members watching, but not my favorite people. Just gonna say that. Like, why is she running around the kitchen like a crazy person? Why is she doing that? What is in the kitchen, man? What is in the kitchen besides the evidence

that you tried to clean up? Oh! What is in the kitchen? Impartiality! Right? Come on! What is in the kitchen? Impartiality! Right? Come on! What's in the kitchen? Nothing. Pose the question, don't answer it.

What's in the kitchen besides the... You know what I mean. That's not the... You would not be a good lawyer. No, well, I mean, I'd be a good... Researcher. Maybe a good... Paralegal.

Maybe a good prosecutor, right? They say inflammatory things like that all the time. There's an objection, but the jury still heard it. Oh my God. So, Darren continued his testimony. And he said that Officer Waddell just pretty much stood there. Like he was in as much shock as we were. He never said anything to me.

And I'm screaming and telling them that they need to go, you know, that they need to go and get this guy. They need to, you know, call everybody. They need to call Rockwall and Garland and everybody that they can possibly get here. And we needed help. So officer Waddell does not say any of this in his testimony. Remember he comes in and he says that he told Darren to attend to his son's wounds. Darren's like, no, this dude was just staring like completely in shock. He said nothing to me. I was screaming at him. So we have two totally different versions of events. Darley doesn't even recount Darren, you know,

screaming madly at officer Waddell. So. Yeah. And listen, Waddell, Waddell, whatever his name is, he could be lying. You could be looking at a scenario where he was petrified. I have seen officers freeze when they're put into a difficult situation where the life is on the line and they do not respond the way they they're supposed to and When Waddell or Waddell whatever his name is is writing the report He's not gonna say that because I from what I've been seeing there has been a lot of criticism about Waddell and his reaction when he responded there and he and he arrived and Basically his lack of doing

anything. There has been some public scrutiny with that. I don't know why he was very clear about why he did that. It was protocol. Like, I'm not leaving this family. I agree with it. We talked about it. I'm just saying what's been put out there.

And could it have been a situation where he froze because he was scared shitless? Would I be surprised by that? Maybe for a few seconds, but not just like staring dumbly and not saying anything. I mean, listen, I don't know what Waddell has responded to before. This could have been his first homicide for all I know. He might have walked in and saw these kids

and completely just froze. Just putting it out there. This is coming from the cop. Possibly. Well, Darren claimed that Darley and Officer Waddell stood by the bar or counter and didn't speak to each other. Darren said that he and Darley were also not communicating, but were just dramatically screaming. This is not... None of these accounts match each other,

by the way, which is a concern. So once Officer Walling arrived, he was a second police officer on scene, Walling and Waddell checked the garage, which they found empty. Okay, let's break down Darlin's testimony. At the end of the bond hearing, the judge rescinded Darlie's bail, and shortly afterwards, she and her family decided to hire a private attorney. Up to that point, Darlie had been represented by a court-appointed attorney named Douglas Parks. Parks believed that Darin was involved in the murders and intended to introduce evidence

at trial to support that theory, including a pair of Darin's underwear that had blood on the elastic waistband. But Parks was soon replaced by a private attorney, Douglas Mulder. Unlike Parks, Mulder didn't believe Darren was involved and didn't seem interested in the evidence Parks had gathered. Mulder later said that if he had believed Darren was the killer, he would have quickly and happily pointed the finger at him. But every time he asked Darlie whether her attacker could have been her husband, she

said, absolutely not. So a little fun fact here. Mulder was a former Dallas prosecutor who was found responsible for the wrongful conviction of Randall Dale Adams after suppressing evidence and allowing perjured testimony. So you do have people involved in wrongful convictions on both sides here.

Yeah, and this just adds gasoline to the fire of my belief, which is they're not both involved. Because if they were both involved here, this would be an opportunity for Darlie to turn on Darren and say, listen, this is what happened, you know, whatever the case may be. I was, he stabbed me too. That wasn't the plan, whatever it might be. She's sticking to the story that it wasn't me and it wasn't Darren. So I just feel like at that point,

you would flip on each other, if especially seeing that one's being arrested. If you were both in on it, you would flip on each other? Well, because they're not both arrested. Darlie's going down for this and Darren's the victim. Yeah, but this is still pretty early on, right? So they're hoping that if they,

if they were both involved, I'm saying, allegedly, they would be hoping pretty early on, she hasn't even gone to trial yet, that if they kind of maintained their solidarity and didn't turn on each other, that they'd have enough of a case that neither one of them would have to face any consequences. I will say this, would have made the development of the crime scene, you know, what they were laying out, evidence, a sock down the street, you know, tables, knives, whatever. Be a lot easier to accomplish that before cops arrive

if it's two people rather than one. Well, I'm not 100% on anything, but I guess, yeah, it is possible that at this point, especially early on, I like the argument that if he is involved, and that's her co-conspirator, she's definitely not going to flip on him because then he would just flip on her So you don't want to you don't want to roll on your partner Yeah, and then they'd be pointing they'd be pointing fingers at each other and she's the one arrested, right? She's the one arrested. So yeah, I still think with how much was done at the crime scene. That doesn't make sense

it's more likely one party, but That party would be Darlie in that case because she's the one who did everything before, allegedly. Darren came downstairs. This is such a fascinating case. I know. It's very frustrating. I understand why people are so enamored by this case. Well, first and foremost, it's a tragic story

involving two young boys. And I think there's a lot of parents who listen to the show. And for all of us, it's just impossible to fathom a world where this can happen like this is not a fictional story These two boys were brutally murdered and there's someone out there whether it's Darley or someone else who did this it's it listen It's a fascinating case. I understand why it's five parts probably going to be six. I mean, let's should we take a break real quick Yeah, let's take a break, but when we come back, I do want to read to you quickly from the affidavit of Douglas Parks.

He was the court appointed attorney initially for Darlie Routier, and he was the one who believed he had evidence that her husband, Darren, could be involved and he was gonna go forward with that as her defense. So we're gonna read a little bit about that to clear some things up before we continue on with the story.

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That's try f-u-m dot com. Use code crime weekly and you can claim this limited time offer today. Go check them out. We're back. So this is from the affidavit of Douglas Parks. And he said, it is my professional opinion and was at the time that I represented Miss Routier that a zealous defense of Miss Routier necessarily involves implicating her husband, Darren Eugene Routier in the death of Damon. At the time I represented Miss Routier,

I fully intended to introduce evidence that I represented Ms. Routier, I fully intended to introduce evidence that would implicate Darren Routier at trial, such as, for example, a pair of his undergarments stained with blood on the elastic waistband. Okay, so Douglas Parks continues and he says, On October 21, 1995, Attorney Douglas Mulder was substituted as counsel for Ms. Routier. One month earlier, on September 20, 1996, Mr. Mulder had represented Darren Routier in a contempt of court hearing involving the possible violation of a court order restricting publicity. So what Parks is saying here is that Douglas Mulder, when he took on Darley's case, had already represented her husband a month prior in a different case,

in a contempt of court hearing. And then Parks continues on and says, I had learned that Douglas Mulder was considering whether to accept employment as counsel for Darley Routier several weeks before October 21st 1996. Upon learning of this possible employment by Darley Routier and Mr. Mulder's representation of Darren Routier, I became concerned that Mr. Mulder would be unable to represent both Darley and Darren Routier without breaching his duty of loyalty to one or both clients." And Parks goes on to say he communicated this concern to Mulder several weeks before his employment.

He explained that Darren Routier was a viable suspect in the murder of Damon and that Darley Routier had not waived any conflict of interest between herself and her husband. Mr. Mulder indicated that he did not believe that Darren was involved in Damon's death, despite the fact that Mr. Mulder had not at that time had an opportunity to review the results of defense counsel's investigation. So basically what Parks is saying is he was worried that conflict of interest, that there's a conflict of interest.

I also think it's interesting that this affidavit, they keep specifically referring to Damon. Damon, yeah, and not, yeah, and not Devon. Yeah, that is interesting. No, I mean, it makes sense to me, and I will tell you guys this without getting too far ahead because I don't want to put words into any of the Darlie team's mouth.

It does sound like that's the angle they're going with as well. Just from my brief interactions with people involved in her camp That Darren's the one who did this so It's something we have to explore. That's why we're here doing this course We have to explore it Of course we do and I mean apparently this this lawyer this lawyer thought the same parks felt the same way

But obviously he's he's also Darley's defense attorney. So yep, he's coming from a maybe a little bit of a skewed lens He's coming from a place of trying to find a reasonable doubt, not necessarily the actual person who did it or the actual motive. That's not his job. So we have to remember that this is not an investigator. He's not a police officer. He's not on bias. He was representing Darley. So he's going to look for holes that he can use to cast reasonable doubt. And who would be the easiest person to put that reasonable doubt on? Obviously the only other adult person who was in that house. Right. Right.

Exactly. Right. If you're going to go with it, if it's not, if we can't put it on someone else, an outside intruder coming in there, if that doesn't seem reasonable, well, the other adult in the house is the only option you have. Yeah, and I don't really know if blood on the waistband of Darren's underwear would be that suspicious

considering that he- He was around the babies, he was around the boys. Yes, he touched them. You would think he'd have blood all over him. Yeah, so I'm not sure. Maybe they're saying because he had a t-shirt on or something that it shouldn't have gotten there. I'm not sure, but either way.

And also there is discrepancies about whether Darren came down fully dressed or whether he had his jeans on. I was just gonna go there. You had mentioned him falling asleep in jeans. If you're to believe where what this guy's Selling Darren comes down without his jeans on does what he's doing goes back upstairs Then puts his jeans on so the blood is from the crime and the jeans were on after which would have covered the underwear which

Would have led to the blood being on the jeans not the underwear and remember that Darley had said when he came down Initially he did not have his jeans on and he had to go back upstairs and remember that Darley had said when he came down initially, he did not have his jeans on and he had to go back upstairs and put them on. And that's when he got Drake and came down and, you know, handed Drake to the neighbor, Karen. So yeah, yeah. I get it. I get where they're going.

Doesn't mean it happened, but it's definitely an interesting argument to make. And with the other adult being in there and him not looking too great on these interviews as well, I can see why you would take that approach. Absolutely. So while awaiting trial, Darlie continued to maintain her innocence in letters and conversations with friends and families.

She suggested that two men, Glenn and Gary, might have been responsible. Glenn was the one she mentioned most often. You may recall him from part three. He's the guy who worked next to Darren's shop and had hit on Darley's best friend Barbara, which his wife found out about because of Darley basically.

And in one letter about Glenn, Darley wrote, quote, we believe we know who did it. That FBI guy is working on it. We already have so much on him. I really believe he did it. Darren will have to tell you about him. It's a long story. I know him, I saw him, and I know it's him."

End quote. All right, so she goes from, first, when the police are on scene, I didn't even get a good look at this guy. Didn't see him, don't know who he is at all. His back was turned. His back was turned. Then she's got a description of him.

He's a white male, he's got this kind of hair, he's wearing this. And now she recognized him. She saw him, she knows it's him. So this is convenient Didn't know him at the time. Yeah, somebody who she knew prior to this incident. Mm-hmm didn't Did fail to mention that to anyone like hey the person who was here kind of looked like one. I know him. Yeah Probably would be a significant piece of information that you would want to relay to the investigators Yep in another letter, Darley wrote, quote, I know who did it and

it's driving me crazy that he is out there running free. What really makes me angry is that I gave the Rowlett PD his name in the beginning and I assumed they would check him out, but they never did. Now he has time to make up a story, but I believe if he has a lot of pressure, he will break." End quote. By the way, the police did look into Glenn. Of course they did. But they didn't believe he was responsible and that's because while in the hospital, Darley told investigators the assailant resembled detective Frosch. But Frosch and Glenn looked nothing alike. So if her original description was accurate, Glenn couldn't have been the man that she saw.

Darley also blamed someone else in another letter, and this time she pointed to her neighbor, Gary. She wrote, quote, "'We know he left the sock directly in the path towards his home. We know he was outside his home at 2.30 that morning,' end quote. Darlie said Damon and Devin knew Gary

and that this house had the same floor plan as theirs. She wrote, quote, This man could be on his balcony and see into our backyard, end quote. And she said that Gary used to watch her. But according to the police, that didn't hold up either. Gary lived at the very end of the street and from his home, he would not have been able to see into the Routier's backyard. It kind of almost sounds like Darlie's kind of, maybe having a mental break sort of,

like she's got these delusions. She's like, Gary lives so close to us and he could see into our backyard from his balcony and the police are like, no, he lives all the way down the street. Of course he can't see their house from his balcony. It's almost like she's either nefariously planting this stuff, just

trying to blame anyone and everyone, or she's kind of having like delusions and like paranoid delusions that, oh, it could be this person, it could be this person, it could be this person and exaggerating out of, I guess, a pure belief in her head that she did not do this and someone else did. I mean, I also put out there that when we're describing this, you're describing it as Darlie's this coherent conscious person. And I'm with you. But there's also a scenario where she did, in fact, have a psychotic breakdown, blacked out, and doesn't even

do like she truly believes this. Or she's or, you know, because your brain protects you. She truly believes. So she's grasping for anyone else cause she has no idea what happened. And so she's grasping for things and trying to make them seem more possible. Yeah. She, she, she's putting this,

this scenario forward, truly believing it's possible. Not saying it makes her any less of an accountable for what she did, but something to consider as we go forward where, you know, when you automatically think, oh, Darlie did it, she planned this all out, she knew what she was doing, she orchestrated it, she knows as she's sitting in prison right now, that's what she did,

and this is just an elaborate strategy that she's laying out to try to put the blame on someone else. There is a scenario where she did have a breakdown and does not recall any of it, and she's still trying to make sense of it to this day. Or there's a scenario where she realizes she did it in a place of a psychotic break,

but your brain will convince you of things to protect you from such a traumatic realization. So she could be gaslighting herself and almost telling herself this story over and over and over again, to the point where she actually believes it, because the alternative, her brain just cannot handle that. Yeah, she killed her kids.

Yeah. So- That's a tough one. Yeah, I mean, I would assume that, you know, having that sort of realization would have a major impact on your mental health, and our brains protect us from things that are going to be incredibly disruptive to our mental

health. And there was, you know, she had just had a baby. There could be postpartum psychosis happening. There's all this potential. So as Darley was writing these letters, the prosecution was preparing for trial to help strengthen their case. They brought in FBI agent Alan Brantley to review everything investigators had gathered, just to make sure no stone had been left unturned. After reviewing the evidence he concluded that the crime scene had been staged and that whoever killed Devin and Damon was likely someone they knew well. He echoed several points the police had already raised many of which were covered but he also brought some new

observations to the table. So now this is law enforcement official, you know, what five, six, seven, who's saying that this is staged. Not only this FBI agent, the police, the Rowlett police believe, and then that what he was like an investigator, a retired investigator, crime scene examiner that they brought in. I forget his name, but I think it was James. They brought him in to look at the scene and go through the house when this first happened. He also said that it appeared to be staged. So one of the things that stood out to Brantley was the contrast between the level of violence

and the condition of the scene. There was maximum human devastation and loss, but a near total lack of property damage. Brantley said it seemed the killer had no regard for the children, but showed the killer had no regard for the children but showed an unusual level of care for the home and its contents. He explained that the family room was very compressed and added, quote, for two adults to be in there fighting and struggling with one another, you would have expected to see some more dislodged,

end quote. Instead, aside from a broken wine glass and a cut window screen, almost everything else in the house remained intact. According to Brantley, that suggested a deliberate effort to protect the space, something that he called a proprietary interest. In other words, the killer didn't just happen to be there, they had a connection to the home and its contents, and possibly to the people inside. Then there was the blood trail, or lack of one. The droplets ended in the utility room, there was no blood in the garage, no signs that anyone exited through the window, and no evidence of an injured intruder fleeing the scene. Brantley said that if someone had just stabbed three people and gotten into a physical altercation

with Darley, you'd expect to see at least some blood in the garage and on the window, but there was none. He also questioned the logic of the cut screen. Brantley pointed out that burglars typically remove the entire screen. They don't make a narrow slit and try to squeeze through, especially not in a low awkward garage window. And if they do cut the screen, it's not with a knife that they would find inside the house.

For Darley's story to be true, the intruder would have had to have broken in some other way, taken a knife from the kitchen, go outside and cut the screen, then come back in and return the knife to the block, which we talked about last episode. That's absolutely ludicrous. I don't believe that happened at all. Nobody would do that. That is so dumb. It's so dumb. And the slit, by the way, it does. It's a big slit, but you would think that it would just be completely torn out. It'd be a hole. Yeah, just like, just break through that thing, right? I wanna, I have a question about the glass table

because I thought I saw people in the comments and we're mixed in three different episodes over six hours of footage at this point. This will be more, this will be eight at this point. Some people I thought were saying the glass table was broken. Glass table was not broken. So I did verify after we filmed last week.

The glass table had been turned over. Okay. Had been tipped over, but it's believed that either the police or Darren, because he said it had been turned. Why I said that earlier, that we flipped it up. Well, because the table was allegedly on top of one of his sons.

So they thought that maybe when he came down, he had righted it, but the vase with the flowers was completely upright. So, and none of the police said they touched that vase. They didn't do anything with it. If someone has proof that the glass table was broken, please provide it to us. Yeah, give us a source or something

so we can check it out. Well, gladly correct what we have here. If we're wrong, we'll correct the record, but I thought there was some of you that said the table was broken But we're gonna go with the table wasn't for this episode And if that's wrong, we'll correct it next episode. I mean you can see the table in the crime scene looking at it right now It's not broken at it right now and it looks not broken to me. It's the corner of it We'll have it up on the screen right here

Doesn't look broken to me if this is what I'm looking at you can see the arrows where there's blood on the table But there's it's, but the glass is intact. Looking at it right now, and if you're on YouTube, you're seeing it as well. Yes, and you will never once again convince me that this assailant took the time to get a knife out of the kitchen, cut the screen, put the knife back, and then escape through the screen.

Especially if he's being pursued by Darlie, which she says she was, okay? And apparently she spent a lot of time in that kitchen. You know, she was there when the cops got there. She was getting rags, allegedly, whatever. There's blood of hers in the sink, which means she was standing over the sink bleeding. There's no way you will ever convince me of that, ever. There's some major problems with this case for Darlie. I genuinely think that someone in that house, one of the adults in that house, cut the screen themselves to make it look like an intruder left, put the knife back in,

not thinking the police were going to check those knives to see which knife had cut the screen. They thought that the police were just going to assume, Oh, the perpetrator had a pocket knife or had his own knife on him. You know, they did not think that that would be checked. That was a big OPC for them. You just said one of the adults, I don't know if I'm wrong in my interpretation, but are you suggesting that you're open to the idea? I know how you feel about Darlie. But I answered the question,

or you know, we were talking about my perspective on it. Are you of the mindset that Darren could be involved? I'm not discounting it. But if you ask me- Okay, interesting. I didn't think you were considering that. Well, you believe that that could be a possibility So I'm right there with you. I will entertain that possibility But yeah, if you asked me like I'm on a jury and I have to say whether I think it was Darley and

Darren or just Darley or just Darren I'm saying it's just Darley. That's where it's leading for me. I think that's fair I think that's fair Well, Brantley also questioned why that same knife that was used to cut the screen wasn't used in the attack. Instead, a different knife from the same set was used to kill the boys. And beyond that, why would the offender come to the house without bringing a weapon of their own? Which you and I have brought up multiple times.

Yeah, I agree. If you know what you're going there to do, you're going to have everything you need. You're definitely not going to be touching knives from the house. And Brantley later testified, quote, in our experience, most offenders that go to a residence to commit a homicide, they are going to take a weapon with them, something that they are comfortable with, something they can use to commit the homicide or another weapon. Take a gun, a ligature. The fact that nothing apparently was taken to the scene,

but the offender goes to the scene, obtains a weapon there, uses that weapon and then leaves it behind is important." End quote. I agree. Why would he leave it behind? Why wouldn't he take it with him? Listen, there's so many variables that if you don't bring the actual weapon, what if it's, unless you have complete familiarity with the house, you run the risk of not being able to find a weapon to do what you want to do.

Allegedly, Brian Koberger, perfect example, he brought the K-Bar, allegedly, to the house because he knew what he was going there to do. And it's about efficiency. It's about getting in and getting out as fast as possible. How do you do that? You have the weapon on your person when you arrive. You don't go searching for one. So based on the way Darley and Darren have described this going down, this, for everything to work out based on the evidence, the actual evidence, not their testimony, okay, for everything to have gone down the way that they said it went down. Darley's woken up by somebody

stabbing her. She chases this person into the kitchen. The person drops the knife, right? Now the glass is already broken, because apparently the intruder ran into the wine rack and broke the glass when he ran by. Darren says he heard glass breaking and then Darley screaming, and he rushed right down. Now the intruder drops the murder weapon in the utility room before going to the garage. Now the intruder gets in the garage and he's like,

oh shit, there's a screen here. I shouldn't have dropped my knife. Now he's got to go back. And presumably have dropped my knife. Now he's gotta go back. And presumably, based on Darren and Darlie's statements, both Darren and Darlie would be downstairs now. And so this intruder goes back in and he's like, "'Sorry guys, sorry, my bad. "'I shouldn't have dropped that murder weapon.

"'I'm just gonna grab another one of these knives, "'cut the screen, and then once it's cut, "'I'm gonna come back and give you the knife. "'Okay, I'm gonna put it right back where I found it. "'Everything's cool, don't mind me.' He goes back out cuts the screen comes back in Definitely by the time he comes back in to put the knife back Darren and Darley are both downstairs and they're just like oh Can you please leave us somebody came in and attacked our children get out of here? We don't have time for this He's like no problem guys. I'm gonna just squeeze right through this little slit in the screen

I made with your knife and not leave any evidence that I ever did that. See you guys later. Thanks so much for the hospitality. What? It doesn't make any sense. No, but couldn't it be the same egress and ingress where basically the offender comes in through the screen, cuts the window with whatever they have, a utility knife. Again, it doesn't, it doesn't, I'm just giving you an alternate year. But that's not the knife that was used to cut the screen. Correct, correct. So they would still have to grab another knife, but just hear me out.

They get into the screen by cutting it with a razor blade or whatever they have, I don't know. It doesn't make sense, but they cut it, right? They go inside, they grab a knife from the knife block as they're walking through the kitchen, they do what they do, and then on the way out, they drop the knife and they don't have to recut the screen because it was cut on the way in.

Basically I'm saying the screen was cut with the knife from the knife block in the Routier home. I know I'm just trying to. So what are you talking about? Because you have the fibers from the screen on there. Yes, so what are you talking about? I'm trying to play devil's advocate and I'm not, I'm failing. Well don't, it's getting ridiculous now because the scenario I just laid out is impossible but according to the evidence that's what happened. I'm with you. Folks, I'm trying but I'm running out is impossible, but according to the evidence, that's what happened. Folks, I'm trying, but I'm running out of options here.

Yeah, there's no options. I'm trying to be open-minded. That's ludicrous. That's absolutely ludicrous. Yeah. Come on. How often do I not have a counterpoint? I know, you tried, you're like,

well, maybe you had a razor blade, but it's like, where did that come from? No. I'm trying to be open to it. The only explanation is that the people who did it or the person who did it was still inside the residence. Yeah, and they sat up and staged the crime scene. Like every single law enforcement professional

who saw the scene and looked at this evidence has said. All right, all right. Danielle, if you're listening to this, we have some questions. I really hope we get the opportunity to discuss this because amongst the things that she's going to put forward, I know we're going to have some questions for her as well. So Brantley, the FBI agent,

also noted that most defenders are well aware that you don't leave the murder weapon behind as it could contain fingerprints unless, unless somebody in the house picks it up and ruins the fingerprints. And this is something Darlie herself seemed to understand Based on what she said during the 9-1-1 call and to everybody afterwards So alright here we are with really no options as to what could have happened here besides someone in the house doing it I tried it wasn't for lack of effort guys. I know you're I'm sure I'm sure Darley appreciates it So we're gonna take another break. We'll be right back.

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That is also something that is extremely suspicious to me I mean, I we understand and we acknowledge that everyone handles trauma differently, but I have never in my week now it's that everyone handles trauma differently, but I have never in my 20 years now of investigative experience, especially when I was responding to these incidents as they're happening, I've never had a victim of a crime or a family member of a victim of a crime run up to me go, oh my god they're inside and I'm so sorry I kind of walked through the crime scene so you might have my boot prints in the blood or my fingerprints may be on him but please go help him. Never in my 20 years have I heard a story like that or have I personally

experienced something like that. So if that's what happened and she's innocent it's an outlier. I've never heard or seen it before. Yeah it's an outlier of course. I've never heard someone concerned about the crime scene and the preservation of evidence. While their children lay there dying. Yeah. Never. For what that's worth, never happened to me. So the FBI agent, Brantley, he also said the attack itself was quote, very contradicting of his experience, end quote. He found it completely unbelievable that the killer would target the children first, removing the least threatening individuals, and then choose

to leave Darlie alive after she knew he'd attacked both of her sons. And you, Derek, have said this multiple times. That is the detective perspective. That's the law enforcement perspective. It makes no sense. It doesn't make sense. That you're not gonna change up your MO mid-killing. When we think about, allegedly again, Brian Kohlberger,

what we find is the horrendous nature of the killing. It's consistent throughout all parties. To change it up within a matter of minutes, it would have to be either two people or the third set of wounds, which would be Darlie, were self-inflicted. That's the only explanations I can deduce from that. So Brantley also pointed out, Darlie, she's a really small woman, right? She was standing at just 5'2", yet the attacker, according to her account, saw her, chose not to kill her,

ran away from her, and left the murder weapon behind as he fled because he was scared of her and she posed some huge potential threat to him, even though he was armed and she was smaller than him and injured. So Brantley believed the sock found in the alley was part of the staging as well, though he wasn't sure exactly When it was placed there

He theorized that the person staging the scene may have realized the crime scene did not extend beyond the house and decided Something needed to be planted to suggest an intruder had fled 100% it wouldn't take a crack detective to figure that out anybody who's planning this this would also go against the whole Psychotic episode as well. By the way, this would also go against the whole psychotic episode as well, by the way. This is some premeditation or I guess it could also be snapping out of it after the fact and being like, Oh, now I have to do so realizing you did something wrong and covering it up a hundred percent knowing what you did, knowing what you did. So at that point, if it's Darlie, she knows what she did. She's not truly sitting here.

We gave her the benefit of the doubt that she may not understand what happened or may have told the lie so many times that she now believes it. No, if this is what transpired and she's solely involved, she knows exactly what happened. Yep, I agree. I agree. I agree that Darlie knows exactly what happened.

Okay. Okay. So according to Brantley, the Sox location didn't make sense for any other reason than somebody trying to make it look like a crime scene where the intruder had fled. He said the intruder would have just had to leave the house and then travel deeper into the neighborhood just to discard it instead of escaping in the quickest way possible. Brantley further addressed the large bruise on Darley's arm, calling it another sign of staging. He felt the injury didn't support evidence of a struggle. Instead, it quote, looked like either the arm had been beaten on

something or something had been beaten on to her, end quote. Okay, so let me push back on that a little bit because a lot of the other things we've already talked about we're not gonna keep going over it but I guess she could whack her arm off something multiple times. She could have done that. If she had the way the elbow is, I mean, I guess you could take a hammer and smack yourself with it or some other object, some blunt object, or another person was hitting you. But if that was the case, if Darren was involved with her, this is a collaborative effort. Why wouldn't they just say they were all downstairs and him have injuries as well? Not even focused on that, because I believe Darlie gave herself those bruises afterwards, because remember, no one in the hospital saw that bruise.

It healed at a different level than the other bruises she sustained during that attack on that night. So by the time her other bruises were already yellowing and healing, that other bruise was still pretty fresh, which means, and nobody saw it on her until like after the the funeral and stuff, I believe. And so that's an issue. No one in the hospital saw it and there were doctors and nurses taking care of her around the clock. The school of thought, just to put it out there from the

conversations I've had so far with some people who are supporters of Darlie, is that Damon and Deon were killed and the offender their original intent was to assault Darley before killing her but because she woke up because she fought back Because things didn't go according to plan and time was running out that's when the offender decided to slash her before fleeing the scene. The original motive was to sexually assault her, and that didn't come to fruition for a variety of reasons. But the bruising, if you're in that camp, although I'm taking out the fact that the

bruising healed differently and all that, but just the bruising itself, how could it have gotten there, would be maybe a form of restraint where originally it was a sexual assault and then it changed but Even that then you have to address what you just said which is the bruising healing at different times No one at the hospital saw it Yeah That's that's a problem and even if you wouldn't see the bruising if it was that significant where they were squeezing or restraining that tightly You would have fingerprint impressions almost you would have read you'd have something there where as the doctors are kind of going over

The body you would clearly see the handprint of someone to cause that much bruising for anybody We can throw the photo again up right now It's a significant amount of bruising and when we originally saw the photo I was extremely perplexed by it because it's it's a lot. It looks like a Serious injury. Yeah, I agree and yet it doesn't align with what we're hearing. And yet none of the medical professionals who treated her noticed this injury. Saw anything.

Yeah. To observe and note it in the report, no. Yep. And when it came to motive, the FBI agent Brantley, he ruled out robbery based on what was left behind at the scene, most notably the large amount of jewelry left in plain sight along the alleged path of entry and escape,

Brantley said, quote, As a matter of fact, nothing was disturbed. Nothing of value in that home seemed to be of interest whatsoever to the offender in this case, end quote. Beyond that, Brantley noted that the Routier home was an unlikely target for intruders. It was surrounded by other houses on all sides, increasing the chance of someone seeing or hearing something unusual. Most criminals, he said, take that kind of risk into account. There was also a vehicle parked in front of the house, which might have suggested to a would-be burglar that someone was home. Lights were on downstairs, and people were sleeping there, factors that would have been

visible to someone approaching from the backyard. Brantley explained that for offenders, motivated to rob, rape, or kill, the presence of lights and signs of occupancy would typically serve as a deterrent. Brantley also pointed out that the TV was visible from outside the home. He said, quote, again, for the most part, individuals that are motivated at least to rob or burglarize,

they're going to want to go into a residence where no one is home. And when you have these indicators that someone is there, for some, not all certainly, they are less likely to select that house. Again, victim selection is important to these people and what they are keeping in mind is risk to themselves. End quote.

And even if the intruder somehow ignored all those warning signs and chose to break in anyway, they would have encountered a large animal cage right in front of the window. Brantley said the offender wouldn't have known if it was used for breeding cats. They would have simply seen a large cage and assumed it was for a dog that might attack or alert the household. Again, this would have been a deterrent. After that, the intruder would have had to have made their way through a cluttered garage

in the dark, navigate the utility room, and then enter the kitchen and living room without making noise or waking anyone and possibly without knowing the layout of the home, none of it made any sense. So what could the motive be? That was a difficult question for Brantley to answer. He concluded that the victims didn't make sense as targets for a random intruder. He described Devin and Damon as extremely low- and probably quote, the most low risk victims that there are, end quote, when it comes to a random intruder. Based on all of this, Brantley concluded

that the attack was not random and that the object of the attack was the children. Basically, the whole reason for the attack was the children. He later testified, quote, there is no question about it, because again, just the number of wounds, the placement of the wounds, all focused right in the chest area, almost as if the offender is going for the heart or going for the most vital regions of the body. The depth of the penetration of the wounds certainly suggests anger and force and focus. When you look at Darley's wounds, you see that they are certainly, obviously avoiding any of the vital areas, but they've been described as superficial. You have here in the shoulder and the forearm, and a scratch here,

and a cut across the neck, again very, very dramatically different from the focus of the wounds that were sustained by the young children." End quote. Very well said. I would even take it a step further by saying, as the offender, do you know how difficult it would be able to slash across the neck and the chest area like that and not cut an artery? Yeah, especially if your force is going down, like she's laying on the couch.

And if you're in the middle of a battle with someone who's fighting back, do you know how difficult it would be? Well, she didn't wake up while she was being stabbed, remember, which is absolutely unbelievable. But she didn't... So she's not moving. She's not moving. I mean, it's...

And your force, the guy's above her, so his force would be going down. So gravity's working in his favor. Yeah. And they would have to... I guess, if you throw up the photo here right now, Shannon, of the neck injury again, you would have to either be in your left hand slicing upward starting at the chest and going up towards the neck or in your right hand starting in the neck and slicing down. That's if it's another person. Now if it's Darlie doing these injuries to herself, this image may be a mirror image,

it may be inverted so just bear with me, it could be the opposite hand, but you would have to have the knife in the opposite hand of the cut, and you would start at the neck area and slice downward. So yeah, I completely agree with his assessment, it would be so difficult to do that, and even if that was possible, I couldn't concur with him more. The fact that the MO was changed up between victims makes no sense to me. You would have to assume that the children's deaths offered something more to the offender than Darlene. I don't see what that would be.

They're children. There's so many other ways to get to those kids outside the home where you don't run all of those risks. And who wants to kill two children for no absolute reason? Yeah. For no reason whatsoever. You're going to kill the adult first. You're not going to start with the children if you're trying to avoid being apprehended or countered by what when you're there. None of it makes sense. And at the root of it all, the intentionality of both Damon and Devin opposed to Darlie, I can't compute it.

It just doesn't add up to me. Well, Brantley continued, quote, so you have to look at that personal motive. When we see personal motive, we start considering, well, what represents personal motive? You are talking about anger, revenge, financial gain, talking about maybe somebody with a serious mental disorder,

maybe somebody that just wants to eliminate the victims because they represent some kind of an obstacle to a goal. Those are what we consider in personal kinds of assaults or personal motives." Now, Brantley wasn't able to say exactly what the motive was other than it was personal, and he's getting this based on the amount of wounds, the veracity of them, how ferocious they were. This was not somebody who came in and kind of didn't know these kids. There's something going on here.

You have a goal that you're trying to get to. There was passion behind that. Yeah, you want them dead, and you're gonna do whatever it takes to make sure that that goal is accomplished right and again like we've talked about before you are never going to find a motive that makes sense for two little boys to be stabbed to death and if you are somebody that can think of a motive and kind of understand it then I don't want to by all means let us know but it's not gonna I don't think you should let us know

because you will be on a maybe that's not gonna, we're not gonna agree with you. I don't think you should let us know because you will be on A West then. Maybe keep it to yourself, maybe. That's not something you should talk about. Can I give one motive that doesn't make sense, but does make for this equation? You have a woman who's struggling, who's going through postpartum depression. Financial issues.

Financial issues, feeling overwhelmed now with a new baby who's not letting her sleep. And what's one way to reduce that stress in her mind to get rid of two of the kids. Now you're back down to one. Now I'm trying to rationalize the irrational. That doesn't make sense for 99.9% of us, but in her mind at the time that may have been what she viewed as her way out or she figures I can't handle this anymore. Darren and Drake are better off without us.

I don't wanna be without my kids. I'm taking Damon and Devon with me and I'm gonna kill myself. But if that was the case, don't you think she would have come clean after and she wouldn't have made up some story? Like if you had that altruistic motive. I would think so.

Or just not do it at all. But yeah, I would think so. But maybe now she's looking at the outside, you know impression of it because originally it would have been oh She was hurting so bad. She killed her kids in herself Maybe some people feel bad for her maybe maybe she killed the kids and then she started to do it herself And she's like what am I doing? Yeah, yeah something but now she comes out and says it off the optics of it She seemed like someone who had very concerned with was concerned about perception in the public very concerned with image. Yes, I correct. So

We're trying to not consider what we would think but what she would think and that's actually kind of what the prosecution went with as well because Brantley's conclusion that the attack was personal gave the prosecution a foundation to start building their own theory. And they said they believed that Darley was a self-centered, materialistic woman who was overwhelmed and unhappy. She resented how much time and energy went into caring for a new baby and two active young boys. She hadn't been able to lose the weight from her pregnancy, which deeply upset her. And she was also struggling with postpartum depression. So that's kind of what we've been leading up to here.

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Darlie didn't have enough money for all these summer trips she'd planned, let alone the expansive shopping sprees she loved to take. The prosecution believed Darlie was under extreme stress and nearing a breaking point, so she decided to kill her children. Possibly for life insurance, possibly to ease the financial strain. Either way, they believed she planned it all. On the night of June 5th, Darlie stayed on the couch while the boys slept nearby on the floor.

Darren and baby Drake were upstairs. Sometime between 1 and 2.30 am on the morning of June 6th, the prosecution theorized that Darlie killed her sons and staged the scene, though the exact order of events was unclear. They believed that at some point, either before attacking the boys or before injuring herself, she used a bread knife to cut the window screen and place it back in the knife block. She ran the sock down the alley, possibly to make it appear as though the intruder had used it to grip the knife and avoid leaving fingerprints. After returning to the house, she cut herself at the kitchen sink, broke a wine glass,

and positioned the vacuum on top of the shards. Once the scene had been staged, Darley screamed for Darren and called 911. From there, prosecutors said she came up with a string of false stories to tell investigators and did whatever she could to cover her tracks, including showing up at the police station days later with a dramatic bruise on her arm that hadn't been visible during her hospital stay. And, I do think it's fair to say that the prosecution's motive wasn't rock solid. Because, once again, there's no motive that a reasonable person can think of.

And with the way the the scene was staged and with the changing stories, it's going to be hard to figure out what's true and what's not. But here's the thing, they didn't have to prove why Darlie did it. They only had to prove that she did. And by the end of 1996, they believed that the evidence spoke for itself and they were ready for a trial. But just when the prosecutors thought everything was in place, Darren did something odd. On the evening of December 3rd, at around 5.30 p.m., he showed up at the house that he and Darlie used to live in on Bond Street, the same house where they had once raised Devin and Damon And Darren would later testify that he went there for the purpose of seeing whether he had cut screens on that house. Which doesn't make any sense at all, but let's keep going.

While he was inspecting the windows, the current owner, Corinne, came outside and asked what he was doing. They ended up talking for nearly two hours and according to Corinne, Darren shared a lot during this conversation, including that his wife had been arrested for the murders of their sons. He said he and Darlie were hoping for book deals to help pay for legal fees. Darlie planned to write the book herself so they could cut out the middleman and, quote, go for the big figures. Darren later denied saying this, of course, course Whether he said those things or not the fact that he went to his old house to check if he'd cut any screens is Undeniably strange and once again, we have to ask ourselves. What motive would Corinne have to lie about this zero none Zero, she didn't ask for him to show up to the house

We not was this a popular case and Corinne maybe wanted to be in the limelight? You can't say that's not the case. She might have. Could she have embellished a couple things? Maybe. But she didn't manufacture Darren showing up at her house when she doesn't know him. So yeah, it's crazy to me. And Darren is not looking good in this whole situation and he said multiple things

that we've seen on video and then these things that around money and it just, the guy does not have a good way with words, that's for sure. And I mean honestly, you have to look at it. Like did this Corinne woman, did she go on and do interviews with multiple media outlets? Was she on Nancy Grace?

Did she go for a book deal? Was she on Nancy Grace? Was she? Did she go for a book deal? No. So was it really that she's like, oh, let me just get in on this? Like who would, what kind of person would do that to a father who had just lost his two children and whose wife had just been arrested for their murders?

What kind of person would lie about this in order to what, make his life worse? Why? Why? I 100 million percent believe that he said those things. I believe Corinne. We stand with Corinne. Let's talk about him going there,

because he later said he went there to check if he had cut screens. Yeah, if he'd cut screens. Well, think about that. Why would you do that? Because you don't want the police to go there and see that the screen was cut in the exact same way that the quote unquote perpetrator

had cut the screen at your new house. Look at you. Part-time detective Harlow. Part-time detective perspective. I love it. I love it, yeah. I mean, if there's something there that shows you had cut screens in the past in a similar fashion,

that ain't good for you. It's weird. Why would you even be considering that? Why would you even be thinking about it? Lot of questions. and I can understand Because I do want to say this we're talking about we're talking about Darlie sister. We're talking about her team. I Truly believe that there are some of them if not all of them who really do believe that Darlie is innocent I think they're coming from a good place

At least I want to believe that and I will give them this That was some of the things that you've described to me about Darren's behavior and the fact that they believe he's involved or he's responsible. They're not completely insane. They're not crazy. Now that doesn't omit the fact that there's a lot of things Darley did. I don't see a world where Darren did this solely on his own. So how does your sister, how does your friend play into this equation? That's the question we have to answer. But yes, at minimum, as we go forward and people are saying, I think Darren's responsible, these are the things they're going to point

to. And you know what? They're definitely a problem for Darren. I don't disagree with their assessment and their perception of these things. Yeah, he's definitely not. It's hard to believe that they're both this strange and awkward and kind of cold and disconnected and they're both sort of behaving and reacting in the same way, but they're both not potentially responsible. And I know you say you don't believe they worked together. I, you know, I'm not as strong about that as I was. I started in episode four.

I gotta be honest and that's okay to change. I, you know, I'm not as strong about that as I was I started in episode four. I've got to be honest. And that's OK to change. I'm not as I'm not as convinced as I was at the start of this episode. We have to be redundant sometimes. It's a two hour episode. There just seems to be a lot of things there that were staged not for law enforcement, but for another party living in the house. It seems like there were extra steps that were unnecessary for law enforcement purposes

to go. Like why the separation of the two floors? Why what extra steps do you think were taken just Darley being downstairs and Darren being upstairs? What if that was just their normal routine? Yeah the separation of the you know to have them in different locations in the house to Say to Darren that I'm gonna go get it Didn't she say I was gonna get a towel for the kid and not do that that was before cops arrived Yeah, there were other things that were done to create the perception that she was a victim as well And even the 911 call her tone towards Darren. It didn't seem like two people that were working together

It sounded like one person trying to figure out what was going on and another person, at least in that conversation, presenting as if she didn't know. So it just seemed like there were extra things done that didn't seem like two people working in unison. Yeah, but I mean, those could be just like weird. Like maybe they're just not good actors. Not everything's going to make sense. Because I think most of the way the scene was staged

was in fact for law enforcement. Yeah. Like the broken glass and the knife on the floor and the sock and the cut screen. Like you're trying to set a narrative. Yes, that is law enforcement. That is law enforcement for sure. And then they just both acted so weird,

like the gangsters paradise and then the weird cemetery birthday party and their weird interviews. They both acted so weird and disconnected from this. And for Darlie to say, I 100% don't believe my husband did it, and for him to say, I 100% don't believe my wife did it,

it just seems like they're insulated and being on the same page. Even if they couldn't get their story straight, at least the first time when they went to the police station and they had different versions of events and their versions of events, but both of their versions of events continue to evolve and change. So it does say to me that maybe both of these people had something to do with it.

Maybe. I mean, I also will put out there that everybody looking at this evidence, and I'm sure Darren's reading these reports from law enforcement as well at this point, you were in that house. How do you, if you're not involved, read those reports, read the assessments, read the contradictions in the report compared with the crime scene itself, hear from all these experts,

and at least not entertain the idea that your wife killed your two sons. It seems like he's supporting her the whole way through. Why is that? Is he just really stupid? Or is he somehow connected to it? Is he culpable? I will say that he, neither one of them give me the idea

that they're that bright. I mean, they're definitely not sending a spaceship to the moon anytime soon. That's for sure. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. And I'm kind of looking, because now that they're talking about this book deal, I'm like thinking to myself,

what major cases happened in the United States in 1995 where they would have thought, oh, hey, we can make a lot of money off of a book deal. What cases happened at that point? You had O.J. Simpson, I think that was 1994 or 1995. It was 92, wasn't it? No, 97, I thought. I think his trial was in 97. His trial was in 97, you're right.

When was, and wasn't Kaylee Anthony 96 or 97? Just seeing like other cases with like Kaylee, he made a lot of money off that. And being like, oh yeah, you know, we can get, yeah. No, so Kaylee Anthony didn't even go missing till 2008. But just thinking like, was John Benet Ramsey maybe? John Benet Ramsey would be crazy. That was the same kind of case.

Yeah, seeing other cases where- Yeah, like a perpetrator breaks in the house. Yeah. Okay, so that wasn't until 1996. Let me throw the scenario at you though. Let me throw the scenario at you. Let's play it out. Let's play cops here, okay?

We're sitting inside the the the the bullpen upstairs in the homicide divisions office and me and you are investigating this case and We're trying to play out scenarios and theories that both are involved Me and you I'm Darren your Darley. Okay, we decide we're gonna kill our kids because it's too much we get some money for it, right? We decide we're gonna kill our kids because it's too much. We can get some money for it, right? Who makes the decision on who's gonna get cut up and bruised up and who's gonna be the one that was sleeping upstairs the whole time? I mean, I feel like they would probably have Darley's want to get cut Yeah, I feel like they probably both look like victims or both look like they fall or they'd want Darley to do it because they would know that I guess maybe intruder would be more likely to

Continue on with what he was doing if it was like A vulnerable woman and not a man that could fight back. I don't know. You know what I mean? I'm just I'm playing this out for you. Everyone listen because these are the conversations that would have taken place if It's a collaborative effort Hey, you're gonna cut yourself in here on your neck your chest your arms. You're gonna go to the hospital You're gonna do all these things and I'm gonna get to say I just was upstairs sleeping. I could say the counter would be better. Like, hey, the guy was downstairs, he fought valiantly, mom was upstairs with the baby sleeping. You know, I just, again, I don't know, I don't know. I mean, from, I was seeing some reports where Darlie was downstairs because she was trying to stop breastfeeding. Darlie was downstairs because she was trying to stop breastfeeding and

You could speak to this more than me, but from what I was seeing When a mother hears the baby crying it can sometimes cause them to leak so she was trying to separate herself from Drake to Wean him off of that and to adjust her own body and which is why she had been sleeping downstairs. I only present this to you to present the other side of the argument. I'm not trying to convince anyone out there of this. I'm putting it out there for your consumption. You can decide whether or not you believe it.

Yeah, it's just weird. I'm trying to figure out where would the book deal come from? I believe that he said it because these people- I believe he said it too. These people have no, they have no freaking self-awareness at all, by the way. The way they spoke in those media interviews, like, you have no self-awareness at all.

I believe it as well. And at that point, Darlie's the one who's on trial for murder, not Darren. So why is she incriminating Darren at this point? It would be better for her to say, oh, he told me he thinks his wife did it. You know, that would be more aligned with- Oh, you mean why is Corinne, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, why is she implicating someone who's not even under arrest?

If she's really wanting to get headlines, she would say, he told me he thinks his wife did it. That would be this more salacious headline. And she's not even saying like, oh, he did it or she did it. She's saying very, you know, plainly like, yeah, he was talking about a book deal and Darlie was gonna write it. Book deals, which is fucking weird.

They were gonna cut out the middle man and go for the big figures, you know? Like this is very clinical language. This is not, like if you're gonna make anything up, you'd be like, he confessed that his wife did it and he saw it, you know? Yeah, exactly, you would do something salacious if you're trying to get media attention.

If you want a headline, you can get a headline. If you're going to lie, go all the way, right? So, yeah, to wrap it all up as far as that portion, as far as the two of them together, there are things that would suggest they did work in tandem, and then there are other things about the evidence itself that says it's one party or the other. And I don't see a scenario where it's Darren attacking Darley and she doesn't know it's her own husband. Yeah, no, no, no, because she saw him

Right. Yeah, what is she what he go through the screen window and come back in like come on She saw him so clearly remember she knows it's Glenn because she saw him And I think you said this so I apologize if you already did If we're looking at the three scenarios, it's Darlie, it's Darlie and Darren, or it's an outside intruder. But there's no scenario, it's just Darren and Darlie's the victim here. Yeah, I kind of agree. I kind of agree.

All right, so we're getting somewhere. But we could change, we could change. At this point, anything could happen. So six weeks after Darren is hanging outside his old house trying to see if he had cut any screens Which by the way, you haven't lived in that house for quite a long time if you had caught any screens Don't you think they would have robbed it might have replaced by now. Yeah weird. It's weird. It's weird So six weeks later on January 16th 1997

Darley's trial began 300 miles away in Kerrville, after the case was moved due to intense pretrial publicity. At the trial, Darley was only being tried for Damon's murder. Prosecutors chose to focus on his case first because he was younger, and his death made Darley eligible for the death penalty. And like many trials where a mother is accused of killing her children, media coverage was nonstop. But this case drew even more attention, partly because of Darley's flashy appearance, and

partly because the Routiers had once lived a life of wealth and comfort. We're not going to go into extreme detail about the prosecution's case here, because we've already walked through most of it across the first four parts of the series. Basically, the prosecution laid out their theory and motive. They played the enhanced 911 call Darlie made that night, claiming her distress sounded fake. They walked the jury through the physical evidence, pointing out how none of it aligned with any version of Darlie's intruder story, and emphasized that her injuries were deemed superficial by medical staff. They also zeroed in on how she grieved, or didn't.

One of their biggest pieces of evidence was the video of Darlie spraying silly string at the boys' graveside birthday party. The prosecution actually played it for the jury eight times. To them, it said everything. To wrap up their case, the prosecution called FBI agent Ellen Brantley. His testimony was long, but it pulled everything together, leaving little room for reasonable doubt that Darlie wasn't involved in her boys murders. With that, the prosecution rested and next the defense would finally get a chance to tell Darlie's side of the story. But that will have to wait until

next time. No, that's great and I'm glad we're doing that. That's gonna be our part five. That's where we were originally going to end it. We're going to cover. And we started to already. There's some there's some carry over. But given the other side of this coin and letting people hear from Darley's perspective and her team what they think happened, we're going to go over that. We have that regular episode planned out. And then, like I said, if Darley's sister Danielle wants to come on and speak with us It doesn't have to be a full-length episode. It could be an extra episode

We can talk about that we can kind of go over some of the evidence that we're going to discuss in next week's episode And we'll see how it goes. We want it. We want it to be right. We don't care who it is Doesn't matter to us. We just want the people responsible To be held accountable to serve the rest of their life in prison. If that's Darley, great. If it's not, let's find the person. And by the way, if it's Darley and Darren, well, let's lock his ass up too.

I don't even know if he's in jail right now. Maybe you pause there. Okay, but okay. Okay, I don't wanna, I truly don't know. But you know, if he's responsible and he's walking around living life when he's a part part of this then you know what? It's not too late There's no statute of limitations on murder. You could bring him in as well he could still be charged and by the way if

Darley hears this or sees this and she is in Something with him now would be the time to speak up Yeah, you think she would have that would be the time to tell the truth Yeah, you think she would have my now though. Now would be the time to tell the truth. If not for yourself, for your kids. Any final words from you? No, I think we, I think I'm sort of deep in thought here now. And I'm thinking about the whole Darlie or Darren or Darlie and Darren. And it's just, it's so early.

I think that's where we all are. Yeah. I end this episode with a question to you guys. I've been asking a different question in a different way every episode, but we started off with, do you think she's guilty? Do you think she's innocent? Last off with do you think she's guilty? Do you think she's innocent last episode? Do you think she's guilty? Do you think she's innocent innocent?

Do you think Darren could be involved? I ask you again now with some of the other factors that we've included here specifically The behavior of Darren do you still think she's guilty if you don't why and If you do, do you think Darren could be involved? That's the question this week weigh in down in the comments below Leave us a comment on podcast whether it's Apple or Spotify. You can actually leave comments on Spotify now It's more reviews on Apple. We want to hear your feedback. I'm looking at it every week Stephanie's looking at it every week We're in the comments. We're responding to you guys We want to hear your thoughts.

It also helps us develop the next episode because we can cater it around some of your thoughts, your feedback, your opinions. So until next week, everyone stay safe out there and we'll see you soon. Bye. Thanks for watching!