Crime Weekly - S3 Ep312: Crime Weekly News: Karen Read Will Be Found NOT GUILTY

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

Karen Read, accused of killing her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O’Keefe, is now on trial for a second time. With jurors now deliberating after hearing months of testimony, the case hinges on conflicting narratives: prosecutors claim Read struck O’Keefe with her car, leaving him to die, while the defense argues she’s being framed and a law enforcement cover-up is at play. We're coming to CrimeCon Denver! Use our code CRIMEWEEKLY for 10% off your tickets! https://www.crimecon.com/CC25 Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod 

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data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply available at pockethose.com slash terms. Hey Spike, got everything you need to cross the Bay Bridge and head to the beach? Check! Cool, let's hit the road. No, check Otis! Check what? What's with this check?

Check Bay Bridge traffic by calling baseband first! Ah, you want to know before we go? Check! Always check before driving to and from the beach. Go to baybridge.com or call 1-877-BASEBAND for traffic updates. That's baybridge.com or 1-877-229-7726. No, then go. Hey everyone, welcome back to Crime Weekly News, I'm Derek Lavassar.

And I'm Stephanie Harlow. And as we're recording this, just so there's context, it is Tuesday afternoon, 419 PM. And as you can tell from the title of this video, we're talking about Karen Reed. And yes, I came up with the title of this episode. I believe that Karen Reed will be found not guilty, but it not as clear-cut as that and we're gonna talk about it So first off for anyone who doesn't know we were also just recording our Darlie Routier part 5 episode And I was following Twitter and the news to see if there were any updates and there was a lot of movement today With the jury we're gonna break that down and we're gonna give our opinions as to why

We think and we're going to give our opinions as to why we think, and we're not legal experts, why we think that she will ultimately be found not guilty of the two more extreme charges. There's some other charges that she may be found guilty of based on the questioning that was asked. We're going to talk about all of it. Anything you want to say Stephanie, before we dive into it again, we're just, we just finished Charlie Routier. We have not researched this. We're going off what's been put out there on X and all that stuff. And this is going to be a different crime weekly news. There's no script. We're just kind of going to be

talking about it. But I think based on the questions, I feel very confident in saying she's going to be she's going to be acquitted. I think that's the only appropriate outcome. And somebody actually texted me last night because they know that I've covered this and talked about it. And it appears a lot of people are just jumping on to this now and haven't been there through the whole thing the first trial the second trial yeah but they asked me you know what do you think about Karen Reed and I was like well what do you that's a loaded question you know what do I think about Karen Reed I said well personally for me I think she did hit him

accidentally because she was drunk. And people, by the way, before you continue, will have a problem with that. And that's fine. I said, I don't believe that she intentionally hit him and intended to kill him as the prosecution for some reason has gone so hard on proving. And I said, and there is, you know,

ideas that there's some conspiracy happening with the people inside that house, with the McCabes, the Elberts, and that because of their close ties with law enforcement that the police sort of, you know, framed Karen Reed. And they were like, well, what do you think? You know, is that possible? And I said, you would be more likely to convince me that there was a conspiracy happening on the part of the Elbrits and the McCabes than you would be to convince me that Karen Reed intentionally killed John O'Keefe.

That's where I kind of am. So I would be more willing to believe, based on how the state of Massachusetts and how Canton has handled this investigation, you'd be more able to convince me that they covered it up, that they were trying to frame her, that there was a conspiracy than you would to convince me that she just intended to kill him

and got in her car that night and was like, I'm gonna kill my boyfriend and get away with it. I do not believe that in any world that exists, which is why I don't understand why the prosecution has seemed to believe this so wholeheartedly and hang their head on it even though they have no evidence of it. So having her be acquitted is the only correct scenario in my opinion. Yeah, I agree with you.

We've talked about it. We covered Karen Reed a lot. And I do apologize if you catch me looking at my phone. I'm still looking for updates as we're going. But I too believe that she hit him and I know people will have A problem with that. I've said it publicly multiple times now but I also said during the the coverage of the Karen Reed case that I I believe the correct outcome here would be an acquittal because There was a lot of things done in this case that weren't done appropriately and we could sit here and rehash every reason why You know as far as law enforcement having tunnel vision them

reason why, you know, as far as law enforcement having tunnel vision, them playing favor to friends of theirs or colleagues of theirs or just incompetence and not doing and just negligence, not doing their job to the fullest ability. The way that Proctor was talking about her. Correct. So obviously in a group chat, unprofessional, thought she was guilty right from the get without without doing an investigation just doesn't look good for them at all. And this is kind of like the movie inception right here because I feel like I'm within an episode, but in the Darlie Routier case that we were just talking about, I brought up the fact that law enforcement

has multiple obligations during an investigation. It's to build their case. It's to follow the evidence, but it's also to explore any potential exculpatory evidence, regardless of how unlikely they may believe it's true or not. They're supposed to go that way. They didn't. They felt from the get-go, she did it, and they basically focused on any evidence that would support that. If they had taken the time to get a search warrant for the house, to look into some different

things, to have John O'Keefe's body x-rayed, different things they could have done. They may have helped their case or helped prosecution because they would have been able to say, interesting theory, we looked into those things, here's why that's not true. But because they didn't, it raises reasonable doubt, and the burden of proof is on the prosecution. And I think there's a lot of holes in this case.

So what do I think's going to happen? I personally believe that she's going to be found not guilty on charges one and two, the manslaughter murder, and then she potentially will be found guilty of the OUI, although that's even up for debate. I want to read two different X's here, two X tweets here that I think really summarize this whole Karen Reed case. So from the prosecutor's podcast, Brett from the prosecutors, his last tweet was 27 minutes ago. Here's what he wrote. A few hours ago I was convinced we were getting either a straight acquittal or at best a DUI conviction,

but I have a hard time believing the jury is going home to come back and just debate the DUI some more. believing the jury is going home to come back and just debate the DUI some more. So my new theory is we have a not guilty on M2 and leaving the scene, so I'm assuming that's manslaughter too, right? And the guilty jurors think that Karen hit John, but they think she was blitzed out of her mind and don't see intent. At least some jurors think that the CW either didn't prove intoxication or didn't prove she hit him. Maybe they come back tomorrow and hang on

the DUI, but there's still a chance manslaughter is on the table. We will see. And now I want to read another tweet here from the defense diaries, which is Bob Mata. He's a defense attorney. And he wrote something that I thought was interesting I hope the defense motions the court to move the lesser included standalone OUI to count three are we about to see the most expensive prosecution for an OUI conviction in history so he believes Karen Reed is innocent now I don't know what he personally believes as far as what's happened but as far as the courts are concerned, he believes that she's innocent and she should be acquitted. Brett believes she should be found

guilty. So there's two different perspectives from people in that field who are both attorneys, both having a different perspective on this throughout the whole trial, and therefore there are their summaries on where it stands right now. Do you want to go through the question, Stephanie, because that can kind of give us an overview of where we are right now and why I think based on their questions, she's going to be found not guilty on the more severe charges. Yeah. So jurors in this second murder trial, they asked four questions related to evidence and charges before they ended deliberations for the day, which is today, Tuesday. A few hours after court proceedings

resumed, so they had they'd gone out for a break and then they came back today for a second full day of deliberations and a few hours after that the jury sent three questions to Judge Beverly Canone. The first question asked about the time frame for the lesser operating under the influence the OUI charge. The second asked whether Reid's interviews are evidence and how they can be considered. The third question was kind of centering on whether convicting on a lesser charge would be a conviction on the overriding count, which does indicate some confusion with the verdict. So after making some slight changes

to the verdict slip for clarity, Kanone brought the jury into the courtroom, walked them through the forum to clear up any confusion that they may have had. So at this point, the defense team and prosecution returned to the court after 1.30 p.m. to discuss a fourth question. So this is now a fourth area, he asked three,

now they're asking a fourth. So the fourth question asked was, the jury wants to know whether they would be considered a hung jury if they found Reed not guilty on two charges but couldn't agree on a third. And if you remember, that's kind of what happened in the first trial. We didn't find out until afterwards, but that is what happened during the first trial.

And Beverly Konone, the judge, her response to this, was to say that the question was theoretical and she couldn't answer it. And obviously the defense objected, Julie Konone, the judge, her response to this was to say that the question was theoretical and she couldn't answer it. And obviously the defense objected because that's absolutely ludicrous because at the end of the day, I would believe that it's her decision,

as it was in the first trial, to consider them a hung jury instead of saying, well, you know, we can't agree on this charge, but we agree on these charges, so this is what we'll charge her with. I think it's up to judge. Ultimately, they should have a clear answer here. Yes, they should she should be able to answer that and I feel like the fact that she's not answering it is because she wants to once again be the ultimate arbiter of What happens to Karen Reed depending on what the jury says which this is not how the justice system works

It's the jury that should ultimately be the deciders a jury of Karen Reed, depending on what the jury says, which this is not how the justice system works. It's the jury that should ultimately be the deciders, a jury of Karen Reed's peers, not Judge Canone being like, well, they couldn't agree on this charge, so instead of throwing this charge out, because once again, a second jury can't agree, I'm going to just say, oh, mistrial, hung jury, and let's do this all over again.

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pockethose.com slash terms. To go back to the questions, just to elaborate a little bit more on the first three questions, Kanoni, when she came back, you just answered what she said about the third one, which doesn't make a lot of sense. She should have more details, but she basically said to the first question, you guys have quote, all the evidence, and you are quote, the fact-finders. In response to that question, she responded to the second question and told the jury that the videos of Reed's interviews are evidence and should be given as much weight as they deem appropriate. And then after then that's when she made some slight changes to the verdict slip. And listen, I'm going to I'm going to agreeance with you here. If they find her not guilty on the first two charges, there should be some separation between that third charge because on a personal note, and I don't know if this is how the

System works and this is no disrespect to John O'Keefe or his family. We can't spend any more time on this one I tell I talked about last week about making difficult decisions in law enforcement and in life And this is one of those difficult decisions the government Shouldn't be allowed to keep putting someone on trial until they get a verdict, whether it's in their favor or not. It should be at most two times and if two different juries can't come to an agreement, that's it. But what I would like to see happen here or what I think is going to happen, and I do I would like it because I think it's good for our

society, it's good for everybody. We've consumed too much care and read content at this point. But I would like to see if it's gonna come back as an acquittal on charges one and two, if she's found guilty on charge three, or even if it's a hung jury. That should be separate and it should either be something that's handled at a much lower scale

outside the, you know, all of this, and we should all move on with our lives because whether you think Karen's guilty or not I look at the videos and the photos and everything go on at these courts and how it's affected this community and rightfully so because this is bigger than just Karen Reed and I've said that from day one it's about our trust in the people that have the ability to take away our freedom. I'm not only talking about cops, I'm talking about judges. Talk about everybody, the whole system.

And I think for a lot of people, even if they think that Karen Reed did it, the fact that there's been so much reasonable doubt in this case and it's gone on for so long and they see all the things that were happening behind closed doors within the agencies investigating this case, that's why they're connected to it. They're not necessarily a Karen Reed supporter, they're more a supporter of what Karen Reed represents and what this case represents.

Now there are a lot of people who just love Karen Reed and are out there taking selfies with her and all this stuff and hey man, whatever floats your boat, you do your thing. But I would love to see this case come to a conclusion. And if the jury decides that she's not guilty on charges one and two, let that be known and let's all move on with our lives. That's where I stand on this one. So do I. But I think the fact that the judge won't give them

a straight answer is going to hinder fear with their deliberations. It is bullsh- So now they're going to feel like they have to make a decision on those first two charges that they can't agree on. Or it'll be a hung jury and a mistrial. And then the state will have to pay again to bring this woman back to court because that's what that's what AmpF did the first time. So the fact of the matter is these jury these jury members I believe will will be influenced by that. They'll be like well we kind of have to agree on these now

because she couldn't give us a straight answer. This is messed up and I don't know if you can hold judges in contempt but she should be held in contempt. She should be removed from this. She should never be allowed to have anything to do with Karen Reed again because this is ludicrous. This is what happened the first time with Beverly can only they could not agree on these two charges They did agree on the third charge. So that's what she's found guilty of hello That is what she's found guilty of you went through a second trial the jury's in the exact same position What do you think knew was going to happen that will that a third trial will suddenly clear up. This is ludicrous.

It's ludicrous. And honestly, if I was Karen Reed, I would sue these people so hard at the end of this, because this is years of her life, money, energy, her reputation on the line as basically like the, the state painting her as this a cold blooded murderer. This is, but she had to sell her house. Like this is bad. I want to talk about that. the state painting her as this cold-blooded murderer. This is, but she had to sell her house. Like, this is bad.

I wanna talk about that. I wanna talk about that, because we were debating it off camera, and we didn't agree, and we'll do it here as well, because I have, I agree with you on some of what you're saying. I think we are, what's happening behind closed doors and what can be done may be different,

but we'll get there in a second. So yes, agree with everything you said. I'm really hoping that these 12 individuals can put their differences aside. And if they've come to a conclusion on the first two charges where they all are in agreeance, and I know some people don't like me using the word agreeance, it is a word. I'll use agreement as well if you'd like, but agreeance is a word. I had to put the definition out there for some people. But if they come to a conclusion on the two bigger charges, go over the OUI, take as much

time as you need. But if there's one or two people, I really hope that they realize the significance of coming back with a hung jury on this one charge, how it's not going to only impact Karen, everybody involved, the city, the community, the entire country. There's a lot more at stake here than just an OUI charge and I really hope that these couple individuals who may be holding out may have a difference of opinion can get down to the root of what matters here and understand that listen whether you find her guilty, I'm just gonna be honest, you find her guilty guilty on the OUI or not, they're still celebrating. That doesn't mean shit to them at this point.

It's a nothing burger. Whatever the majority is, guilty, not guilty, maybe you concede a little bit. Maybe you compromise because at the end of the day, it ain't going to affect her at all. Now, I want to talk about what you said because it's an interesting conversation. You talked about her suing the city or the state after this because of everything that transpired. The police department. They're not gonna be able to sue the police department more than likely. I did look it up a little bit. So in most instances when you are charged with a crime and you have to go to trial,

there's not much you can do about legal fees unless you can prove misconduct. So in this case it could be applicable. That might be the case where she can do it. But there was something I was looking up and it's the Vanity Fair article and you can everyone can pull it up as well We're basically Jackson and Yanetti are saying that yes, she did sell her house. She's pulling from her IRAs But from what this article is stating that's more for just living expenses right now The over five million dollars in a legal fees that she's accrued is under deferred legal fees right now, the over $5 million in legal fees that she's accrued is under deferred legal fees right now.

And so my interpretation of it, although it's not no definition next to what he said there, I believe it was, I believe it was Jackson. I don't believe she's paid a dime. That's my personal opinion. Maybe a couple of fees or retainer upfront when this started, but once it took on a life of its own, I think you netetti Jackson, the entire legal team, realize that at the end of all this, regardless of the outcome, they are not only going to potentially go be able to sue the city,

the police department, whoever they go off of, which will be much more than $5 million, but there's also going to be exclusivity rights from, for movies, television shows, books. I mean, I wouldn't say as big, but it's in the realm of the O.J. Simpson case. And so they are gonna do speaking appearances. They're gonna do so many different things where they know the business side of this,

they are going to make way more than $5 million. And just the lawsuit alone, if they win, that could be for hundreds of millions of dollars. So it doesn't really matter to me. When this happened, Karen Reed was successful, wealthy, owned her dream home, had a great life, and now can she work when this is happening? No, has her career suffered extensive damage?

She had to leave her job. She had to sell her dream house that she worked her ass off for. Yep, I think I saw it. What was it, 800 grand? 800 grand. She had to do all of that. she worked her ass off for. Yep. I think I saw it like eight. What was it? 800 grand? 800 grand. She had to do all of that. And not only that, but her reputation. So yes, did she gain some following and some fans from this? That doesn't mean anything when the life you've worked so hard to build,

when probably all you wanted was privacy, a loving partner, and a happy life, when that all has been blown up because these idiots at the Massachusetts State Police, the state of Massachusetts and Canton couldn't get their heads out of their ass and when they went too hard and realized and then they had to feel like they had to continue going with this. This should have been over after the first trial. They felt like they had to continue going with this for what? Even if she was drunk and accidentally hit him, this is out of control what has happened.

Yeah, it's crazy at this point. That's what I, and we agree on that, where I am just over this case. I wanted justice for John. It doesn't look like we're going to get that one way or the other. No. It's not going to happen. We're never going to know. Because nobody knows what happens.

After two trials, the jury's still in the same place. That means really the evidence and the information is the same and the both sides are trying to figure out a way to present it Differently, which will maybe get a different reaction from the jury, but it's not happening No, which means none of us will ever know it's not happening Karen Reed. Karen Reed don't even know let's be honest Yeah, exactly Karen Reed She if she's found not guilty which I believe she will be found not guilty, if she did it, she's walking. If she's acquitted on that, she can never be tried again. And there's no indication that there's any investigation into the McAlberts or

any of that. So that's not going to happen either. So whether you're in the camp that Karen did it, or you're in the camp that John was killed inside that house, he's not going to get justice. We all agree he was killed. That's the one thing we can all agree on. Who did it? They're more than likely never gonna be, they're never gonna spend a day behind prison

answering for that. And that's just the sad reality of it. But I agree with mostly everything you said there. I think at the end of the day, her life has been changed forever. I would argue that from a financial perspective, it's probably gonna be better now. All this trauma and all the,

everything she had to experience, not knowing if you were gonna go to prison for the rest of your life, it takes a lot out of you. It takes a lot out of you. When I was on, I had to go through the grand jury hearing for my shooting, which is a standard thing. Every officer has to go through it.

I was throwing up every single day. I didn't sleep for weeks because I knew there was a jury of my peers that based on their interpretation of the evidence could indict me. And that would change my life. So I don't know exactly what she went through, but I have a little bit of an idea

and I'm just ready for us to move on and for everybody from the judicial system, from law enforcement, from just our society in general. We're ready for this story to end and move on to the next thing that's going to come up because there definitely will be something else. Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose.

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W-A-T-E-R to $64,000. By texting $64,000, you'll agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Messages and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. Available at pockethose.com slash terms. Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new Pocket Hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here, and it's a total game changer. Old-fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's Pocket Pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around

your home. When you're all done, this rust-proof anti-burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus, your super light and ultra durable pocket hose copperhead is backed with a 10-year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what, an exciting radio exclusive offer just for you. For a limited time, you can get a free pocket pivot and their 10-pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size copperhead hose. Just text WATER to 64,000. That's WATER to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase. W-A-T-E-R to 64,000. That's water to 64,000 for your two free gifts with purchase, W-A-T-E-R to 64,000.

By texting 64,000, you'll agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Host. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply available at pockethost.com slash terms. So Karen Reed was financially fine to begin with. Okay, she was doing really well. And I guarantee you that she would trade any money

that's coming. Of course, who wouldn't? Or any publicity or any like notoriety for a quiet life in her dream house with the man that she would trade any money that's coming, or any publicity, or any notoriety for a quiet life in her dream house with the man that she loved? Question for you, if that's the case, do you think she sues, gets all her money, does whatever, let's say hypothetically, she sues, wins buku bucks, right? Millions and millions of dollars set for life financially.

Do you think Karen Reed goes off and lives her life with all her money and tries to just live as normal of a life as possible? Or do you think we see her for the next 20 years on every documentary, TV show, movie, book deal, speaking tour? Well, I mean, at this point you are, she's going to view herself as a victim of the system. And now this is going to be like, just like, you know, any parent who lost their child,

you know, to a crime, probably didn't, would prefer to have their child back and not be a voice for this kind of thing and not be on, you know, out there raising awareness for it. But they're doing it now because it's like something happened that impacted my life and changed it. And now I have to help others. Now I have to be a voice out there keeping awareness

for this kind of thing because it could happen to any of us. So let me play the other side to that. And you've said it. There's, you believe that she hit him. Do you think, I'll ask this one question and then we'll go on from there. Do you think there's a possibility

that she also thinks she hit him? Or do you think she, I'm asking you to get inside of her head, but do you think unequivocally she believes she did not hit him? Yeah, I do. I believe that she believes she did not hit him? Yeah, I do. I believe that she believes she did not hit him, yes. You don't think there's any point to her,

even though she said I hit him the next day? Well, first of all, that hasn't been proven that she said that. He said she said it in a documentary. They played it. That's what they're talking about in the video. She said, could I have hit him? Could I have hit him?

She's wondering, because yeah, now she's going back, she's being like, when I left that freaking house, I was kinda toasted. Right, so she's saying that there's a been like when I left that freaking house, I was kind of toasted, right? So she's saying that there's a possibility she hit him Yeah But I don't think she remembers whether or not she did Because the reason I make this point because I don't want to get caught in the weeds if she there's any part of her That believes she could have hit him completely by accident. I don't think there's any world. She did this intentionally

I never have no chance at worst She was drunk and she accidentally hit him while peeling off for all we know she had put the car in reverse instead of drive Accidentally, right? It was she wasn't even intending to go in reverse. I've always believed that I've never believed She said all this mother effer and tried to kill him. No shot But my point for saying all this is if there's a world where she believes she did hit him, wouldn't it make more sense not to go out there and say all of this when there's a part of you that knows it may not even be true? Prosecution may have gotten it right.

The law enforcement, Mass State Police, Canton Police just did a horrible job with the investigation. Well, no, I don't think the prosecution got it right because they really tried to make it look like she did it intentionally and she knew that she did it, that she was mad at him. She was mad at him, right? That's why they Never agree with that. That's why they exactly that's why they made such a big deal of showing their tux and how mad she was See how mad she was and look listen to her yelling at him after she got home That's how mad she was if I hit him and I knew I hit him I'm not going home calling his voicemail being like you I'm a fur I knew I hit him. I'm not going home calling his voicemail and being like,

you MF'er, F you this, F you that, absolutely not. Completely agree. That's why I will never believe that she knew. Was she upset? Yes. Did she hate him and want him dead? No, she loved him. That's why she was fighting so hard for him. I agree with all that.

I agree with that. I don't think she sends that text message as she knew she hit him. Or I'm not the text message, the voicemail, the voicemail. 100% agree with you. Don't disagree at all. I don't think that she would've gone. Like I'm gonna yell at someone I know is dead, come on.

Well, I mean, listen, we've seen it where somebody will set up an alibi where they'll send a text message like, hey, are you coming home soon? There's something simple. But the way she went in on him. Or she would've called him, yeah, she would've been like, honey, I'm sorry we argued, I left.

I hope you come home tonight, we can talk about it and make up, that's what her voicemail would've been. Not like, MF you, I hate you, argued, I left. I hope you come home tonight. We can talk about it and make up. That's what her voicemail would have been. Not like, MF you, I hate you, blah, blah, blah. No, I agree. It's not a flattering voicemail. No, but have any one of us not been there in a heated relationship dynamic

when we've consumed alcohol? Of course. Agreed. It's intense. Passions are high, man. And if she thought in any way, shape, or form that law enforcement could be listening to this voicemail You're right. She would have the optics would have been there and she would have been a lot more toned down So I agree with you. Yeah, I think overall

Prosecution law enforcement did not do a great job with this one and we have said it from day one and we've said it during The series do we think she hit him more than likely? Yeah, I think she did if you're asking me I think she hit him doesn't change the the fact that as we go to trial and we look at everything What you believe and what you can prove is two different things and if they do come back with an acquittal I think it's the right decision. I'll have no Rebuttals for it. I think it's the right call based on the facts and circumstances of this case. And I hope for everybody.

That's what happens. And I say that out of as much respect as I can for John O'Keefe's family. Of course. Because I do not see a situation where Karen Reed is going to be found guilty based on those questions that you just laid out today. Let's really talk about that fourth one. If we agree on two charges, but not the lesser offense, I believe was the thing, would that result in a hung jury?

So my interpretation of that as not a lawyer is, hey, we don't think she killed him. We don't think that the prosecution met that burden of proof. The OUI, based on the fact that she was at the bar, based on that she's admitted she was driving the car. Her blood alcohol level, yeah, of course. Yeah, we believe she could have been drunk while driving.

But what if we have one person in this group that says, no, I don't think she should be found guilty on that because they didn't do an SFST. They didn't take her blood. They didn't do all these things. So how could they know that she was above the legal limit at the time when she was driving? It's speculated that she was,

but we don't have any proof of it. So maybe there's that one person saying that. They said, would they be considered a hung jury if they find her not guilty on two charges? Yes, but can't agree on the third. That is, I believe what happened in the first trial. Agreed. And they, and there's been rumors that they found her not guilty on the first two charges. So if that's the case here, what are we doing?

Just get it over with. So it's not even that they can't agree on all of them. It's that they have completely agreed on two of the charges, which I would say, well, probably the two more serious charges, the two more serious charges, but they can't agree on a third because yes, there's going to be people on that jury that's like after what this woman's been through, she shouldn't even see a day of time in jail. Like we shouldn't give them the satisfaction to even get this out of us.

And then there's going to be people who are being- Stephanie, if they come back tomorrow and say she's guilty of OUI, do you think she's gonna care? No, but I think there's people on the jury that are like, we don't even wanna give the prosecution this much. Like, you know what I mean?

So there's probably, that's probably where it's coming from, why they can't agree on that third. Because I feel like, like you said, it's pretty obvious. She was drinking and driving. It's pretty standard. So the fact that you couldn't agree on that would mean that it's like, hey, yeah, we just, she's pretty obvious. She was drinking and driving. It's pretty standard. So the fact that you couldn't agree on that would mean that it's like, Hey, yeah, we just, she's

been through enough to freaking trials. Her reputation is enough. I'm not just talking about her, the O'Keeffe's, the community of Canton, the entire country, the, the, the resources and everything that's been devoted. Let's say that everybody, 11 jurors agree that she's guilty of OUI, one doesn't. You gotta come around, buddy, whoever that is. Yeah, get on board, man. Conversely, if 11 of them believe she's not guilty and one thinks she's guilty,

the argument you just made has to be made. Listen, the judge just told us, if we don't agree on this charge, even though we agree on the more significant charges. It's a hypothetical question. It's not a hypothetical question. Theoretical, theoretical. Aunt Bev, it happened already in the first trial. There's nothing hypothetical about this. I can't stand her.

Yeah, I think you're in agreement with a lot of people who agree with you. I can't stand her. She should lose. She should not be a judge. She is awful. She's not the only judge that shouldn't be a judge. There's a lot of them out there. For sure. But yeah, they have to come together and they cannot let this last charge. If it is the OUI, we're all speculating on this. If it's the OUI, they got to let it go. One way or the other, if the majority, if it's one or two people, you got to realize the impact that this can have. And honestly, the sentencing that would come from this one way or the other, it's not going to make a difference. But isn't Beverly Canone the judge? Isn't she the one that decides on sentencing ultimately?

I thought so. So I think the jury might be afraid of even going like, oh yeah, she's guilty of this charge because then Judge Bev could be like, well, based on my feelings, you get 10 years in prison for this. If I'm giving my honest opinion, if you find her not guilty on the manslaughter and the murder, it's pretty simple. If most people people are in a grants on the OUI or not Just go with it because it has no impact and I would even say at this point Find her not guilty on the OUI to it. Does it? What does it matter at this point?

Let it be done. Let it be done acquitted on all charge not guilty on all charges on the verdict slip We'll throw the verdict slipped up here right here. You can see it. It's all over the internet There's a few verdict slips. It's not just one, because there are four different offenses. But yeah, I believe, as we wrap this up, and Stephanie believes as well, Karen Reid will be found not guilty. Now, there is that caveat where, if that third charge,

if they get a hung jury on it, Cronone could say, we got to do it all over again, which would be an absolute travesty for everybody involved. and I'm praying that doesn't happen. Yeah, I think Massachusetts would riot. Yeah, and they'd be headed to Aunt Bev's house. Okay. It can't happen. It can't happen. It can't happen. Everyone has gone through enough. The resources that have been spent, the money that's been spent, the taxpayer money, this is done. Because at worst, you're looking at a woman

who is driving drunk and accidentally hit her boyfriend while leaving the scene. That's the worst case scenario in my opinion and in your opinion. That's the worst thing we have here. Now, does it change anything? John O'Keefe deserved better? Of course.

But sometimes you just gotta be pragmatic about it. You gotta separate emotion from logic. Yeah, this is awesome. Any final words from you? No, I think that's it. I hope Aunt Bev makes the right decision. I really do too. I hope the jury spends the night sleeping on it

and whatever the majority is, go with it. Tensions are high. You already have a lot of people that think there's some conspiracy and Aunt Bev continuing on in this way is only going to increase that and this will never end. Well, that's why I'm saying the jury can take it out of her hands.

Yeah, yeah. It's pretty simple, not guilty. Guess what? She's got no control anymore. Not guilty across the board, yeah. Not guilty across the board and it's over. That's what I'm saying, right? Like if it's 50-50 on the OUI

and you really wanna make sure that this woman doesn't have to go through this again because you all believe she's not guilty of murder or manslaughter, well then you know what? Pragmatically, you got to do the right thing here because if you leave it as a hung jury, now you put it back in the lap of, of Bev. So how do you remove her? You come back, not guilty, right? Done. Case closed. So we want to hear your thoughts. Let us know what you think.

We know we're going to get a lot of comments on this one. What do you think of everything right now after hearing and seeing what you saw today? What do you think the jury will come back and say tomorrow? It's going to be a big day. I'm pretty certain that we're going to have a verdict one way or the other tomorrow. And I'm really hoping it's not a hung jury. So we will be back next week with our sixth and final part of the Darlie Routier case. We'll be back with another crime weekly news. If we have a verdict tomorrow, we might even do a live or an update after that where you get an extra episode

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