Crime Weekly - S3 Ep350: Murder on the Eve of Halloween | The Killing of Dr. Jablin (Part 1)

Episode Date: October 17, 2025

Just after sunrise on October 30, 2004, police in a Richmond, Virginia suburb responded after a neighbor walking his dogs discovered the body of 52-year-old University of Richmond professor Dr. Fred Jablin lying in his driveway. He’d been shot multiple times as he went outside to grab his newspaper, something he did every morning. Inside the house, officers found his three children - still asleep, unaware of what had happened just beyond their front door. As police began to search the neighborhood for clues, one name surfaced again and again: Fred’s ex-wife, Piper Rountree. Their marriage had been volatile, their divorce bitter, and their custody battle filled with accusations that seemed to have no end. When detectives started tracing Piper’s movements before and after the shooting, they uncovered a series of bizarre and calculated choices - each one more unhinged than the last. And soon, it became clear that the story of Fred Jablin’s murder wasn’t just about one act of violence - it was about everything that led to it. Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. https://www.LittleSpoon.com/CrimeWeekly50 - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY50 for 50% off your first online order! 2. https://www.FactorMeals.com/CrimeWeekly50Off - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY50OFF for 50% off your first box and FREE breakfast for a year! 3. https://www.RocketMoney.com/CrimeWeekly - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals today! 4.https://www.PDSDebt.com/CrimeWeekly - Get your FREE debt assessment and find the best option for you today! 5. https://www.HelixSleep.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 25% off sitewide! Select our podcast after you check out to let them know we sent you!

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Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Just after sunrise on October 30th, 2004, police in a Richmond, Virginia suburb responded after a neighbor walking his dogs discovered the body a 52-year-old University of Richmond professor, Dr. Fred Jablin, laying in his driveway. He'd been shot multiple times as he went outside to grab his newspaper, which is something he did every morning. Inside the house, officers found his three children, still asleep, unaware of what had happened just beyond their front door. As police began to search the neighborhood for clues,

one name surfaced again and again, Fred's ex-wife, Piper Roundtree. Their marriage had been volatile, their divorce bitter, and their custody battle filled with accusations that seemed to have no end. When detectives started tracing Piper's movements before and after the shooting, they uncovered a series of bizarre and calculated choices, each one more unhinged than the last. And soon it became clear that the story of Fred Jablins' murder wasn't just about one act of violence. It was about everything that led to it. Okay. So we're covering this case because it happened the day before Halloween. We are in the Halloween time. And because the victim, Fred, he loved Halloween. He was the guy who went all out

with decorations parties, the whole nine. And that contrast, like the joy of the season against the reality of what happened at his driveway on the eve of his favorite time of year, it makes the story hit harder right now. So that's why we're talking about this. It's a, you know, kind of timely case, and there's a lot of stuff that happened in this case that also gives it that sort of Halloween, like what's hiding beneath the mask vibe. So in order to understand what happened to the end, we have to go back to the beginning. As we always do. As we do. And Frederick Mark Jablin was born on July 23rd, 1952 in Queens, New York, to his parents, Irving and Mildred Jablins. His father was an accountant, and his mother worked as a bookkeeper.

together they raised Fred and his older brother Mike in the community of Floral Park. Fred was known to be extremely smart and curious, unassuming, and slight in build, but he had a sharp sense of humor and a contagious love of life that made people feel instantly at ease around him. Fred earned his PhD, an organizational communication from Purdue University in 1977, and quickly established himself as an expert in the emerging field. His research was innovative and influential, and he went on to, win multiple awards for his work. Eventually, he joined the faculty at the University of Texas at Austin, where he built a career that was as impactful as it was fulfilling. Fred genuinely loved

being a teacher and never turned down a moment to meet with students and discuss research projects. He also happily gave out his home number to anyone who needed help outside of class. So it's no surprise that students loved Fred and often named his class as their favorite. One student later said, quote, he's one of the most enjoyable, knowledgeable, and engaging professors, end quote. As Fred settled into his career, he bought a home in South Austin near the Stevenson Nature Preserve. He was thrilled to finally have a place of his own, not just because it was his space, but because he could go all out for Halloween, his favorite holiday. For Fred, Halloween was a time when you could be someone else for a night, and he believed in doing it right. Every year, he decorated his yard with carved pumpkins, spiders and cobwebs, and hosted a party that soon became a neighborhood tradition.

In the fall of 1981, when Fred was 29, his friend and colleague John, introduced him to one of his students, a 21-year-old senior named Piper Roundtree. The very next day, John mentioned to Piper that he and Fred were going to an event, and Piper asked if she could join them. John said yes, but when he couldn't make it, he asked Fred to still meet her. They both went as planned, and it wasn't long before they realized there was a real connection there. Piper Ann Roundtree was born on January 6, 1960 in Japan, where her father, Dr. William Roundtree, was stationed as a surgeon in the Air Force. Her mother, Betty, stayed home with their five children, and Piper was the youngest, so she was close to her whole family. But she shared an especially close bond with her sister Tina, who was eight years older than her. They were so close that they referred to each other as soul sisters.

After their father retired, the family settled in Texas near the Mexico border, where Piper quickly found her place. She was bright and ambitious and involved in nearly everything in high school, from the National Honor Society to tennis and choir. She graduated in 1978 and left that same fall for the University of Texas at Austin, where she majored in speech and German. Despite being very ambitious in her studies, Piper was also known to be spontaneous and free-spirited, the opposite of Fred, but not in a bad way. Fred's friend John told Catherine Casey, author of Die My Love, that they each, quote, found something in the other that they lacked, end quote. Piper brought lightness and warmth into Fred's structured life, and Fred gave her a sense of stability and care. He supported her financially and emotionally, and he catered to her every move. It was the kind of attention that Piper loved and it became the foundation of their relationship.

So within just a few months of meeting, Piper moved in with Fred. She continued her studies at the University of Texas, and in the spring of 1982, she graduated with bachelor's degrees in both communication and German. Not long after, she was awarded a year-long scholarship to study abroad in Germany. It should have been a dream opportunity, and in many ways it was. But while she was there, Piper started having an affair with another man. Fred found out, and he was obviously devastated, but instead of ending the relationship, he flew to Germany and tried to, I guess, reason with Piper. He begged her to reconsider, and she agreed to continue dating him, and when her scholarship ended in the spring of 1983, she moved back in with him in Austin.

That fall, Piper started law school in San Antonio, about an hour and a half away from Austin. She moved there, maintaining a long-distance relationship with Fred, who was actually paying for her tuition. So Fred has been financially and emotionally taking care of Piper since the beginning of their relationship. She goes to Germany, has an affair. Sheets on him.

He has an affair. He goes to Germany in, you know, a grand romantic gesture. Like, you're this important to me. I'm flying to a different country. I love you. You know, pick me, basically. Choose me. Pick me.

Yep. She says yes. She comes back to Texas. Starts living with him again. Now she's going to school in San Antonio. She's doing law school there, which, by the way, no tuition to college is. cheap, but law school tuition, definitely not. Nope.

Fred's paying for that after the affair, after he had to beg her to choose him. He's paying for that still, right? Yeah, he's better than me. I would have been. I don't know if it's better or just more naive. More forgiving, I'll say that because that would have been it. See ya. I know, right?

I mean, I know. I know. And listen, there's, I'm not trying to judge anybody here. there have been many stories, many cases where, you know, you're in a relationship, one or both partners has, you know, an affair on the side. And then because of that affair and because of the way things goes, they're like, hey, we were meant to be together. We've realized this made me realize that it's you I want.

And they go on to live very happy lives. I don't think that's the case in this story. So. No, it was one sided. Very one side. It was one person committing themselves completely. providing financial and emotional support and the other person betraying that trust. Yeah. And the way that it's kind of, the way it kind of seems is it's like, well, Fred brought

structure and stability and safety to Piper, paid for everything for her, made sure she was always emotionally supported, financially supported. Piper was fun. You know, Piper brought fun to Fred's life. That's the kind of fun I don't eat personally, but. Captain on his toes. He kept him on his toes. That's for sure. He had a very, regimented, you know, controlled life, everything in its place. And suddenly she came in like a hurricane and brought some fun. Which is so interesting because that is the case a lot of times where someone who is successful has all their stuff together. It's like, you know it's not good for you, but you just can't get enough of it. Yeah. And that kind of excites you almost. Because everything else

in your life makes sense and has this like very, you know, monotone quality to it, which is great. But then at the same time. It's also the thrill of the chase, too. Like you want what you can't have type thing. I don't know, man. I don't know. Humans, man. We're all messed up.

Yeah. You're like, oh, this little lightning burst came into my life. And suddenly I'm electrified. But what I think that people don't understand is that that's really anxiety that you're feeling this excitement to be around somebody or something that destabilizes you and kind of makes you it's dopamine. Because it's something different, something unique. But it's also a level of anxiety. Like, don't tell me that Fred, after he found out. She went to Germany and was cheating on him, that there was an anxiety forever in him after that constant worry.

But it's kind of like also, I don't know, we have a large majority of the people who watch the show are women. So I ask all of you, like what is it the whole like, oh, I like the bad boy. I know there's easier people to be with that are, you know, trustworthy and safe. But I like the bad boy. How many times have I heard that? Yeah. Sorry, I just like the bad boy. So what is it?

I think it's the bad boy. I think it's the destabilization that they bring to your life. You know, you know how everything's going to go. You can look like somebody like Fred would have been able to look at the next 10, 20 years of his life and know exactly where he was going to be working, where he was going to be living, what he was going to do on Halloween every year, where everything in his house was, where everything in his office was. And then suddenly Piper pops in, you know, like I said, a tornado of chaos. And he's like, huh, well, this is different. You know, this is different. I like this. laying down in the comments, let us know. Are you team safety blanket or are you team bad boy? I want to know. I want to know where our audience is. I want to get inside your heads. What are we dealing with? Well, that's a hard one.

There's a lot of reasons for that. I think a lot of it comes from childhood too. I think sometimes people search for something that feels familiar to them, but familiar isn't always good, right? Yep. So that October, the two got married. So even after all of this, he's paying for a college, and he's asking her to spend the rest of their lives together.

And Piper later called it a whim, saying Fred suggested they marry that weekend, and she simply agreed. After the wedding, Fred stayed in Austin, more devoted to Piper than ever, because she's his wife now. But things soon began to unravel. Piper started revealing sides of herself that Fred hadn't seen before. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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All right. So we're back. And Fred and Piper, they get married on a whim, she says. and then once they're married, as is the case a lot of the time, by the way, once somebody who's hiding things and wearing a mask, once they sort of see now you're locked in legally or otherwise, they'll sort of start showing you little bits of themselves here and there because it's hard to wear a mask for an extended period of time. So Fred learns that Piper's been struggling with bulimia and that she's taking this

stimulant. It's called phentermine. And it's a stimulant medication used for short-term weight loss in adults who are obese or overweight with health risks. It's meant to be used in a healthy way, like the doctor's like, you should be exercising and eating well while you're taking this. But it's definitely still a controlled substance. It works by basically stimulating the central nervous system and affecting brain neurotransmitters to decrease appetite, increase heart rate, and boost energy. It's also important to know that this medication is intended to be used for short-term use. You're not supposed to use it for a long time. It's typically prescribed for a limited period, 12 weeks or less. And yeah, it can have some pretty bad side effects like most stimulants can.

So she's got issues with bulimia. She's taking the stimulant medication. And according to Fred and other people, she had a pretty big temper. So on top of all of those issues, Piper also stopped doing well in school, which was something new for her. Realizing something was wrong, Fred made a major sacrifice. He put his house in Austin up for rent and moved to San Antonio so he could be there for Piper and he could support her as she continued through law school. You know, and remember, he loved this house. This was his house, his first house that he had on his own. He decked it out for Halloween.

He knows all the neighbors. They love him. He's got a great community there. she's just going to school in San Antonio. It's not even her permanent place of residence. And he puts his house up for rent, allows strangers to live in his house. So he can go to San Antonio and make sure that Piper makes it through law school, right? Because she's kind of slipping here.

Her grades are slipping. She's not doing as well. And he's like, hey, I'm her emotional support system. I'm the one who should be there, cheering her on, you know, making sure she's accountable. So I'm going to do that. And for two years, Fred made a three-hour round-true. trip commute every day, driving back and forth between his job and their new home in San Antonio. That's love, man. That's love. Well, his sacrifice worked. And in the spring of 1986,

Piper graduated and the couple returned to Austin. Eventually, she landed a position as a prosecutor with the Hays County District Attorney's Office. And this should have been a great job for Piper. She would have gotten good benefits. She'd have room to grow, a lot of opportunity to learn because She's in the DA's office. So you're going to be able to see all sorts of different types of cases. You're going to be able to see prosecutors at work, defense attorneys at work. You're going to have great mentors and things like that. But we don't know why.

Within a year, she'd been fired. Like I said, it's unclear what led to her termination. Shocker. Based on just a little bit you've described about Piper so far, I'm sorry, didn't come off as a go-getter. It seemed like basically. Like, maybe not like somebody who's good with commitment. It seemed like Fred got the law degree. Yeah.

If I'm being honest, I'm not trying to discredit her, but it feels like Fred was a big reason, a big force behind her even finishing. Her sticking with their relationship, her sticking with getting her law degree, her sticking with anything was sort of Fred persuading her too. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Fred was a part-time attorney because he probably was doing a lot of her schoolwork with her to help her out. I'm sure he was studied just based on what you're describing. this guy was probably going above and beyond just to make sure she passed. It was probably exhausting on top of all of his other stuff, right? Yeah, yeah. But her being on our own, not having him there to hold her hand.

Yeah, he can't go to work with her and be like, Piper, answer your emails now. And then what happens? She's done within a year. Yep. And I mean, this was pretty part for the course, actually, because Piper had had issues at work throughout the late 80s and into the early 90s. She struggled to hold down a job. She bounced from one job to another.

and most of them lasted only a year or so before she was let go. Now, during that time period, she and Fred welcomed two children into the world, a daughter named Jocelyn and a son named Paxton. After Paxton's birth, Piper was diagnosed with postpartum depression. She then made a rash decision, withdrawing money from her retirement account and combining it with $1,400 of Fred's money to pay for breast implant surgery, something Fred didn't want her to do, as he knew that there were health risks. Plus, she was actively breastfeeding at this time, but Piper didn't listen to his concerns.

She got the surgery and the decision caused tension between them. So this and I'm sure other things led to Piper and Fred starting to go to marriage counseling. Now, usually you would see, or I don't know usually, but at least in the past, you'd see women getting breast implants and their boyfriends or husbands are like, yeah, yeah, do that. I want you to do it, you know. That's great. But Fred... Listen, I'm all for it. What people want to go out there and do it?

They want to do it. They want to stop you. But Fred's like, hey, I don't really want that because I don't need you to look any different. And also, there are health issues. And also, we have two young children who you're still feeding from your body. And this is going to complicate things. Like, not forever, but at least in the short term, while you're recovering from that, I don't think breastfeeding is something you're going to be able to do.

And it really seemed like, and this is the kind of the imprint. time getting from Piper and Fred, she was very selfish. And he initially perceived that as, she's fun. She's like all over the place, man. What a great, what a great girl. I'm just here like her very, you know, strong stage for her to dance and perform on. But now that they have kids involved, Fred's like, hey, I would really like to see you put our children first.

I would really like to see you put someone first for once. And if you weren't going to do it with me, why can't you do it with our kids? Yeah. No, on one hand, I agree with Fred in the sense of like, hey, listen, you're breastfeeding right now. It's been proven apparently that that's better for the children. Would you mind waiting? Would you mind waiting until they're at least done? But as far as him saying, you know, I don't want you to get breast implants because I don't think you need them. Well, it's not for you, Fred. He didn't say he didn't think she needed it. He said that there's health, like health complications, potentially, things like that. Same thing. No, I mean, ultimately, if she feels insecure about something, she wants. I want some done. She should be allowed to do it. And Fred, by the way, you signed up for the marriage. What's yours is hers. So it's not technically your money anymore. It's her money as well. So I think there's a, it's not as clear cut on this part. I haven't liked a lot of what you've said about Piper leading up to this point. So this is the one thing I'll say where it seems like Fred potentially felt like, hey, because I'm the main provider and I'm doing

these things, I should have say over what you're doing with your body. If that was the case, I disagree. Maybe not say with what you're doing with your body. Maybe say with what you're doing with your money because what do you think about her draining her retirement account. I kind of. I don't agree with it. But this is all.

I know what we're talking about tonight, right? But the reason I think we do what we do and why people come back is because we're honest. Like, it's hard to feel guilty for Fred about this because Fred seems like a very intelligent guy. And he saw the warning signs. Yeah. We talked about going overseas. He really has nobody to blame but himself for being in this situation.

There's no way that he saw these signs and didn't realize. This is a selfish person who does what she wants. What he was getting himself into. So, you know, when you're selling or renting out your house, traveling three hours and she's just letting you do it, not pushing back being like, no, I'm an adult. I should be able to do this on my own. You shouldn't have to sacrifice your well-being and your sleep every day to, to appease me, maybe don't marry her, maybe don't have two children with her. Now you made your bed, you got to sleep in it.

That happens to a lot of people, but they don't end up dead. So that's the difference here. Yeah, I think it was a lot more fun for Fred when it was just the two of them. Agreed. But then you now have, hey, she got a law degree, a great expense to you, both your time, your money. And now you have children together. So it's like, okay, she didn't do well in the law field, but now she's the mother to my

children, and you would hope that this person would grow up a little bit, but that doesn't happen. And so she's now being financially irresponsible, draining her retirement funds. Because I believe, yeah, do whatever you want to your body, but it's irresponsible when you have a family to provide for and you have a future to save for and you're draining your retirement fund to get breast implants. It's showing like, yeah, you're not making super good decisions. But it wasn't like she was putting on a mask beforehand.

Not really, like somewhat, but not to that extent. No, not based on what you've described and what you've said tonight, it seems like the signs were there. Yeah, absolutely. And I think he's seeing that. Now, like I said, it's all fun in games when it's just the two of you. But now you have children involved and this person who used to be this, you know, streak of lightning is now kind of setting everything on fire and it's not great. So they go to counseling and eventually Piper tried to return to the workforce by opening her own practice, but it didn't go as planned. She decided she wanted to stay home with the children instead.

So Fred took on consulting work to make that possible. So he's working his job at the university, and now he's taking on another side job doing consulting. And it wasn't something that he wanted to do, but he did it anyway so that Piper could have what she wanted. And I think there was a part of him that was like, she's probably better off at home. Like, clearly she can't go out into the world and take the initiative to buckle down and make something out of herself alone independently. so I'm going to have to continue taking care of her. Even then, though, this stay-at-home mom thing didn't last long because Piper started complaining that Fred wasn't home enough, and she was unhappy with that.

So in 1994, Fred accepted a higher-paying position at the University of Richmond's New Jepson School, and the family moved into a house at 15-15 hearth Glow Lane, located in a quiet middle-class suburb. The following year, Piper gave birth to their third and final child, a daughter named Callie. She again suffered from postpartum depression, and she began drinking heavily, eventually becoming known in the neighborhood for always having wine in her hand. Ugh, it's not what you want to be known for. So neighbors found Piper to be unpredictable. Sometimes she was fully engaged, playing with the kids and planning activities, and other times she'd be shut down completely, staying in bed for hours while her very young children

fended for themselves. Fred grew so concerned with this behavior that he hired nannies, but Piper always fired them. She, however, remembered things differently. She later claimed, quote, I was dedicated to the children doing everything that I could for them. I cooked everything. I mean, absolutely from scratch. I canned. Went berry hunting. My neighbor referred to me as the Martha Stewart of motherhood, end quote. Which is like, you know, why are you putting all this pressure on yourself? Okay. Why? You don't have to make everything from scratch. You don't have to be in the kitchen rolling out bread in the flour from scratch. You don't have to be canning. We have grocery stores. You've got three kids. We have wild grain. Yeah, we got

wild grain. You've got three young kids. That's all, three full-time jobs all on its own. Are you projecting right now? Are you kind of like speaking? Because it's crazy. I don't. I'm messing with you. When people do this, when mothers do this and they're like, oh my God, I'm so exhausted. I got up at five to do a sourdough starter so that my family could have friends. sourdough bread for dinner and then I made soup from scratch and I did this and I'm just so tired and they started to get resentful. But it's like you're kind of bringing this on yourself. Do those things later. Stephanie's over here providing luncheables in the morning. Right. Do those things later in life when your kids are a little older when they're in school and you've got all day by yourself

to play music and make your sourdough bread and can your blueberries, whatever. You don't have to put all of that on yourself. Poor Aiden and Bella. No fresh sourdough bread in the morning. Now they get it, but not then when they were babies? Absolutely. I could barely shower. I'm going to ask them. I'm like, when's the last time your mom made you a bread? Listen, I have a bread maker, so it's not hard to do. When's the last time you made a bread? I don't know, two weeks ago. I love bread. Did you really? Okay. That's more recent than I have. But it's a bread maker also, to be fair. It's not hard. I don't know what a bread maker is. It's just like a machine. I'm assuming it makes bread. And you put everything in there. And then it like raises it for you. Yeah,

it does everything for you. It's amazing. Okay. But, like, when they were kids, when they were babies, man, I couldn't even shower. I didn't even know my own name half the time. And she's suffering from postpartum depression, right, after the birth of her first two kids and her third and final daughter. So, like, your mental health has to be more important than... Not only for you, but for your kids. Yeah, well, then thinking... I mean, crazy.

And whose perspective is this, right? So on one hand, we got people being like, you know, this chick was out there. She's always got a glass of wine in her hand. And she's kind of like sometimes a good mother, but sometimes she's completely. disassociated and Piper's like, no, I was amazing. My neighbor called me the Martha Stewart of motherhood. I was canning my own stuff and hanging my clothes on clothes lines and stuff. So who knows what's true? Maybe it was both true. Maybe when Piper was on, she was on 110%. And then when when she got burnt out, she's in bed for days because, of course, yeah, you're doing a lot. You're

taking on a lot. Especially because Fred's not home that often because now he's working at the college and he's, you know, trying to take side jobs. You guys are going to counseling. Very stressful. Very strong. I'm getting anxious thinking about this. It's, it's very stressful. So let's take a quick break, and we will come right back. You know how every fall I tell myself I'm going to start cooking more balanced dinners, and then two weeks later, I'm eating cereal over the sink at 9 p.m. Yeah, you mean the meal prep season where good intentions go to die? Exactly. Which is why I finally gave up on pretending. I'm a food blogger, and started using Factor.

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By 1996, the couple returned to counseling. Piper said she felt unappreciated and ignored and accused her husband, Fred, of keeping her on a financial leash, which I think you kind of need that, Piper. I think you kind of needed a financial leash. But she wanted control of the money, so Fred handed it over, right, hoping that this would help. But it didn't. Because over the course of the next three years, Piper secretly ran up $32,000 in debt. And, you know, we talked about wild grain in this episode, and now we're going to talk about PDS debt because that's what Piper. and Fred could have really used after this was not planned no this is what they really could

have used after her maybe some rocket money too year shopping spree yeah so then in early 1999 piper began seeing a psychiatrist dr stephen welton during her sessions she painted fred as a cruel husband while also admitting to cheating on him occasionally something fred didn't know anything about he knew about the affair in germany before they were married he didn't know that stuff like that was still going on so dr welton ended up diagnosing um um Piper with a possible mood disorder and prescribed Adderall, later adding medication for depression and anxiety. Now, around this time, Fred found out about the $32,000 Piper had racked up, and he told her she needed to find a job and help pay the debt back. So Piper took over an office

from an attorney preparing to retire. But there was just one little problem. She wasn't licensed to practice law in Virginia. Someone found out in a complaint was made to the Bar Association. They told Piper she needed to pass the bar in Virginia. So Fred paid $3,000 for a review course and hired help for the kids so that Piper could focus on that. But what she didn't do, Piper, she didn't end up studying. She didn't end up focusing on that while she had help with the kids. She ended up failing. So she fell into another depression and blamed everything and everyone but herself. She also started criticizing Fred for every little thing, including planning a family trip to Disney World. Not because they didn't have money for a trip, but because

she considered Disney to be, quote, commonplace, end quote. It wasn't good enough for Piper. Disney wasn't good enough for Piper. That was where the commoners and the peasants go, not Piper. So. Well, she just became an enemy of mine. Right? I love Disney World and Universal Studios. Who doesn't love Disney?

I love it. Going back in a couple of weeks. You just got back. I got back from Universal. I'm going to Disney end of this month and I'm excited. So Piper. Yeah, Piper. We're no longer friends.

We don't, we aren't defending you anymore. I wasn't upset with you until you started bashing Disney. So, yeah, I find that to be, and I get it, like, amusement parks, stuff like that. It can be, like, a lot. It's very overstimulating. There's a lot happening. But to refer. Has Piper seen the ticket prices?

It's no longer for the middle class people. I know. People are, people are, like, getting second mortgages on their homes to go to Disney. They're pricing us out. I see people going to Disney every year, and I'm like, how are you doing this? Yeah, no, it's crazy. How much debt do you have? have. So, yeah, Piper found it to be for the commoners, even though 32,000 in debt was just

absolutely royalty level kind of lifestyle. So that spring, Fred joined Piper in couples therapy sessions with her psychiatrist, Dr. Welton, who later said he realized Fred was nothing like the man Piper had described. Fred seemed concerned about Piper and wanted to help her however and wherever he could. But by 2000, things had only worsened. Neighbors said that Piper's mood darkened and she was home less often, even though she was supposed to be taking care of the children. That fall, Piper continued spiraling. After spending Thanksgiving in Texas with her sister, Tina, Piper told a friend she was moving there with her children.

She said they'd be happier without Fred. She then told the kids they were moving, and this was news to Fred, who obviously had no idea about Piper's plans. He begged her to go back to counseling and said he was worried about what she might do. In December, the family was finally set to take their long-planned Disney trip, But on the day before they were supposed to leave, Fred woke up, and Piper and Callie were missing. So Callie's the youngest daughter. He had no idea that during the night, Piper packed a suitcase for herself and Callie.

She called a limo to take them to the airport. And she flew to Houston, where her sister Tina lived. When they got there, Piper told Tina that on the night before, Fred had ripped her clothes off, called her an embarrassment, and drugged her. And Tina obviously believed every word that her sister told her. Remember, they were very close since childhood. They called themselves soul sisters. They were ride or die. And Tina was eight years older than Piper.

So obviously she's going to feel a protective instinct towards her younger sister, who she's very close to. Now, Fred soon figured out where Piper and Calley were. But instead of going to Houston, he took the two older kids to Disney as planned. I'm sure at this point, he was just fed up with the shenanigans. He'd been planning the trip for over a year. The kids were very excited about it. Obviously, they'd been telling them about it, hyping them up. he wasn't going to ruin that for them, even though Piper had tried to ruin it for them all.

So after a week at Disney, Fred brought the kids to Houston to meet Piper, and he asked what it would take to get her to come home. She said she wanted to move back to Texas to be closer to her family. So Fred agreed. He agreed to look for a teaching job in Texas. And a few days later, all of them, the whole family, including Piper and Kelly, flew back to Virginia. And unlike Piper, when she said she was going to do something, Fred kept his promise. and he applied for his old position at UT, but there weren't any spots available, so he kept searching for a job.

Meanwhile, Piper stole Fred's master card and secretly ordered a new Citibank card in his name. So within a month, she charged nearly $20,000 between cash advances and purchases. Then in early January of 2001, Piper moved out of the family home and into the home of her friend, Lonnie, who was going through a divorce. days later, Piper went back to the javelin home to see the kids. While there, she called the police and accused Fred of pushing her into a wall during an argument. Officers arrived and Fred explained that the fight they'd had, it had only been verbal, which all of the children backed up. Piper told police that Fred was really abusive and she urged them to ask her friend Mel.

But when officers contacted Piper's friend Mel, Mel said as far as she knew, Fred was not abusive. No, that backfired. Yeah, I'm wondering, like, Piper mentally doesn't seem okay, right? There is a small part of me that always wonders if there is some truth to it. Maybe this is an exaggeration. But as you mentioned, and I was looking to see if you did, the kids backed up his account. Then you even have friends of hers saying, yeah, no, no signs that he's abusive. Because usually there's at least a little truth, but also there have been cases when it's a flat out lie.

just from what you're describing, that appears to be the case here. And it's almost like, did Piper know she was lying? Or did she truly believe these things were happening? Like, she wasn't mentally okay because why would you tell the police, go check with Mel? Knowing that Mel was going to be like, I don't know. Like, I love my friend, but I can't, you know, I can't tell you something that didn't happen. Yeah, I do think it's fair to say at this point that what you just mentioned, clearly Piper was not mentally okay. I don't know what condition she actually had, but it was something she should have been treated for and probably why Fred was urging her to go back to therapy to speak with a professional because he could see there was something deeper going on here that she wasn't being treated for, properly at least.

I mean, just the lack of impulse control, right? The cheating, the spending, making decisions very quickly without thinking them through. yes, can somebody just be an asshole and do horrible things and cheat and spend money? But the way that it's happening, whereas she keeps getting caught and she keeps going to therapy and she keeps saying like, yeah, I know this isn't right. I'll make it right. And then she does it all over again. It seems like she doesn't have control over it.

Definitely doesn't have control of it. Couple that with the fact that she just doesn't respect Fred. Oh, clearly. I mean, she hasn't respected him from the beginning. And that has not changed. She has done things when he's asked, but only because he incentivized her to do it by giving her something she wanted. It's the only reason. And it would only result in them being back together when Fred would make concessions, when Fred would make sacrifices.

Fred had to meet her more than halfway. It wasn't like there was some type of compromise, right? It was more about, hey, Fred, you come over and do everything I ask, and then maybe I'll give you what you want. Which is just to be together. Yeah, which is just to have me do what I'm supposed to be doing. Exactly. I mean, when you look at the fact that she had postpartum depression and you could say, well, clearly this is an issue with her mental health. But usually postpartum depression does not include these impulsive behaviors, at least alone.

It doesn't include these chronic impulsive behaviors. And there were signs before the children. Yeah, because if you're talking about reckless spending, cheating, thrill seeking, frequent mood swings. Wings, unstable self-image. I don't think the guy that Fred found out about in Germany was the first or the last. Oh, no, no, no. I'm saying even before children, I think that's the one he found out about, but there was much more going on that he wasn't aware of. Yeah, this sounds also like she maybe had been struggling with something like bipolar for quite a long time.

I do got to say one thing, because by now everyone knows the format of the show. And you're talking a lot about Piper, and she's not coming off well. and I'm wondering how she's going to tie into all this because right now, you know, we're two-thirds into the script and I'm like, okay, so Piper's responsible for it. But I don't want to go too far there because you could throw a curveball at me. So I'm just letting everyone know as I'm digesting this story

for the first time I've never heard of it before. I am wondering where Stephanie's taking us because she's painting a picture of Piper that's not a good one. So I'm interested to see how this one plays out. Yeah, I'm painting a picture Piper, but also I think, you know, Fred's life up until the point where his life was taken from him. This is what he's dealing with. This is his experience on a regular basis. Not a great

life. Like, I'm sure he was wishing to go back to his quiet house where, you know, he could have neighborhood Halloween parties and then stick to himself other times of the year. But listen, Piper's claiming that Fred's abusive. We don't know if she actually believed this or if she's lying about him. Either way, there was no evidence of it. Nobody could back. it up and Piper went back to her friend Lonnie's house, which remember Lonnie's going through divorce at that time. Later that month, Fred emailed Piper saying, you know, I still care about you. I still want to make things work. But she didn't care. And two weeks later, police were called to the Jablant House again after Piper showed up in a manic state. But this time

it was Fred who called. He told dispatch, quote, my wife's acting strange and she's trying to take my kids away. End quote. When police officers arrived, Piper was agitated and claimed Fred had locked the children in a bedroom. She also said she wanted to leave, but he wouldn't let her. Fred told them that wasn't true, and officers suggested they stay apart for the night and talk things over in the morning. Well, thanks, thanks officers. This is such a Gabby Petito situation. Like, you know, just take the night, guys. I know you've been dealing with this for years, but take the night. Tomorrow in the light of day, you could talk about it more civilly. That's not going to happen. Less than a week later, Piper checked into a hotel with the kids. Over the next few days, she continues

called friends and said she thought police were coming for her. She then went to the courthouse and filed for a restraining order claiming Fred had been physically abusive. Hours later, he was arrested on campus at his job, which was incredibly surprising and also embarrassing for him. After his release, he moved into a motel while Piper stayed in the house with the kids. Thankfully, he was able to keep his job. His colleagues seemed to understand what was happening, and he was even offered a job as acting dean of the Jepson School, which he accepted. Yeah, it looks like a It didn't hurt him too much. I mean, it was, but he was able to, you know, keep it together still.

Yeah, and you're right. It didn't hurt him too much, but obviously optics, not great. And I'm sure you have rumblings within the university, people wondering if this is true. And this guy is some type of monster that they're just unaware of. What is your thought at this point? Do you, because I mentioned it a couple minutes ago, is there in your opinion, and again, it's just an opinion, we don't know. Well, we'll never know. Any validity to what she's alleging.

Could there be somewhere in the middle or maybe not even in the middle, but just a foundation where she's exaggerating what's happening? And maybe Fred is slightly abusive in certain ways where he's like grabbing her or pushing her, not beating her, but doing things where she's taking that and running with it. No, absolutely not. From what I've seen, what I've researched, there's no evidence of that. And I think that's why I keep saying, like either she's mentally going through some kind of break from reality where she genuinely thinks this. stuff happened. Or she's just maliciously lying. Those are the only two options at this point. And I will say, I mean, like, it's not even the fact that, oh, Fred was holding it together and he didn't have huge impacts at work. It's good that he didn't have huge impacts at work.

But he's holding it all together and making sure that his career, which is the only thing that financially provides for his entire family at this point, his career is not affected. And the amount of mental anguish that he was going through while still making sure that it didn't leak over or touch his career and he's kind of like trying to hold that up all by himself while also with the other hand trying to make sure everything's okay with Piper and she's taking the kids here and she's taking the kids there and it just had to be exhausting. So I know very, it's so hard when you're trying to keep everything together publicly when privately things are just absolutely in chaos and you have somebody who's actively trying to like throw grenades in

your path every time you step forward, but he still was, for the most part, holding it all together because he knew. Not just that his career was important to him because it was, but I'm the one who takes care of these kids. Yeah, he's the breadwinner. Yeah. I'm the one who pays the mortgage on the house. I don't even live in right now. Right. And if not for me, if I lose my job or something happens or I slip at all, it's not just going to hurt me. It hurts my children. Yeah. Speaking of the children, how old were Jocelyn and Paxson around the time when this was all occurring? I know Cali was very young. So it would have been during the early 1990s they were born. So they were probably like 10, 11, 12 at this time. Okay. So they're old enough to be able to speak. Yeah. And know what's

going on around them. All right. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be right back. Okay. Be honest. I know we don't like to talk about money and politics and religion. But have you ever looked at your bank account and thought, wait, where did all my money go? Yeah, every month. It's some kind of like financial Bermuda triangle. Exactly, exactly. That's why I started using Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that actually shows you where your money's going and helps you take back control. So you can see all your expenses in one place, every subscription, every bill. And if you notice something you don't need anymore, Rocket Money helps you cancel it. Yeah, that's the feature that really got me. I had a couple of streaming services I hadn't

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Okay, we're back. So Fred filed for an emergency custody hearing, telling the court that the children weren't safe with Piper. The judge agreed and gave him temporary physical custody and lifted the restraining order. Fred moved back into the house and soon after Piper filed another false abuse report and stole a bunch of Fred's stuff from the family home. Still, Fred begged her to come home for the kids, but she refused. So he filed for divorce. on grounds of desertion. Piper then filed for her own divorce, claiming Fred was verbally and physically abusive. She asked for joint physical custody, which was denied. However, Fred was ordered to pay Piper over $1,000 a month in alimony and child support. At this point, Fred had been and was

raising his children almost entirely on his own. Even with the demands of serving as acting dean, he made time for every part of their lives. He attended their games, scout meetings, and dance classes. He even volunteered as a class parent, always signing up when help was needed. He was so involved with his children's lives that at one point he was named the professor most likely to run out of class to talk to his kids on his cell phone. I don't know how he did it. I don't know how he did it. That's hard. Having like a time, a time demanding career and also still being able to be there for everything for your children and volunteer for their classes and stuff.

A lot of respect there. So as Fred adjusted to being a single parent, he and Piper continued sharing joint custody, but this was difficult for Fred. He worried constantly when the children were with her. She was careless and impulsive, once letting them cross a four-lane road alone and another time taking them on a boat without life jackets. Piper was also having an affair with her daughter's married doctor, and she'd even brought her children along on their dates. It was a deep betrayal and made Fred even more uneasy about her influence. Fred began to fear for his own safety as well. After two false abuse claims, he didn't know what Piper might do,

next. He installed a security system and taught the kids what to do if she tried to take them without permission. His fears were justified. She kept breaking into the house, stealing from him. She even filed another false assault report. All of this led Fred to file for full custody. And in September of 2001, the judge ruled that Fred would have physical custody while both he and Piper retained temporary joint custody. A psychiatrist was ordered to evaluate them to determine who was the best fit to raise the children. So by January 2002, the psychiatric evaluations were complete. One doctor said Piper likely had substance abuse issues, ADHD, bipolar disorder, and dissociative disorder. He described her as hyper-emotional with impaired judgment.

About Fred, he wrote that he, quote, relied on tact and diplomacy, end quote. Another psychiatrist believed Piper had ADHD and an adjustment disorder, noting it would take long-term therapy to manage. He said Fred sometimes saw himself as blameless and could overreact under stress, but nothing in Fred's report was damaging. So based on those findings, the court gave Fred permanent physical custody while maintaining joint custody. Piper was furious and told everyone who would listen that Fred only won custody because he manipulated the judge with his expertise in communication. And this is kind of ridiculous because, yes, the judge makes the ultimate decision, but the judge makes the decision based on so many factors, including the reports

of the psychiatrists, right, who talk to Piper and who... Yeah, there's multiple experts involved here. It's not just the judge. The judge is going off the opinion of the experts. Yeah, the judge isn't like, hey, hey, Fred, I like the way you talk. You get your kids. It's not that way. It doesn't work that way. No, the writing's on the wall here. They can see. I'm sure everyone brought stuff to the table and the judge in most cases can use common sense, especially after speaking with the experts who are evaluating. Evaluating the whole situation. And Piper. And the kids, honestly. I'm sure the kids were talked to as well. So at this point, Piper is just irrationally angry and she vowed to destroy

Fred. She had her sister Tina, a nurse practitioner, type up a 42-page document titled Javelin Psychological Profile. And to make it- No, there's no body. it's there. Yeah, well, I think they were trying to like plant it as if it was an official document. Oh my God. And so to make it look official. Yeah, exactly. To make it look official, Tina listed fake credentials and then filled that report with lies. So this report said that Fred had violent outbursts, smoked pot with his students, physically into sexually assaulted Piper. Tina wrote that Fred had physically abused the children as well and wrote that the children were at high risk for psychological abuse. So when I'm first reading,

this part when, you know, I'm looking through this case. I'm like, what's the purpose of this, right? Like, where is this report going? The decisions already been made by the judge. And even if it wasn't, if you tried to submit this report, it would quickly be sussed out as being fake. Fake, yeah. Where, what were you doing with this report? What was the plan here? Well, they did have a plan because Piper, in a horrible action, emailed this fake document to Fred's colleagues, members of the PTA for her children's school, the children's scout leaders. What a scum bag. The children's scout leaders. Anyone that knew Fred, what a scumbag. Unbelievable. Yeah.

Gross. So in one move, she involved the community in their family drama. And even though it was all fabricated, it was obviously devastating to Fred's reputation. Once stuff gets out there, the general public doesn't have time or energy. to consider the, you know, gray areas or to actually get to the truth, they're just like, wow, this report looks legit or. Well, they're also not privy to the other side to it, right? No, of course not. Fred's not out there airing out all of Piper's dirty laundry.

So they're only getting one side. And I'm a perfect example of how that works because I'm sitting here asking you, hey, do you think there's any truth, any validity to what Piper has alleged? And you're like, no. But the truth is like. Because you want to give, you want to, if someone's claiming to be a victim, you want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Of course.

So without a doubt, there's going to be people in that neighborhood, that PTA are part of his colleagues who are going to say, man, Fred's an asshole. Especially if somebody maybe has previous history with domestic violence or has been the victim of domestic violence, they're going to automatically sort of mentally side with Piper against it because they don't have the full situation. But I have found the first person in an issue like this, the first person to take it public and try to like rally troops to their side is usually the one. who's causing the drama and who's causing the problems. And that's why they're trying to get ahead of it. They're trying to get out ahead of it. Obviously, Fred's got to do some sort of damage control, but he had to personally contact colleagues to deny it. He even withdrew his name from consideration for a full-time dean position. Piper had sabotaged his personal life for years, and now she was doing it to his career. Fred filed an emergency motion to limit her visitation

with the children while Piper responded by asking for more alimony saying she couldn't keep a job. The judge sided with Fred and limited Piper's visits to two weekends a month. He no longer owed Piper child support, though he was still required to pay alimony for the time being. So after the ruling, Piper moved to Houston to live with her sister Tina, who, by the way, is no better for going along with this. It's like, I get it that you want to believe your sister, but when you're typing up an official report, As a nurse practitioner, you have a legitimate, respected career and position. You're a medical professional, and you're typing up a report. Even if you thought everything Piper said in that report was real, you're making fake credentials.

So you know that there's something that's not super quite right about this. And you're going along with it to destroy the father of your niece is a nephew. Like, do you understand what's happening here? This isn't good. Yeah, no, it's not serving anybody well. And here's a thing. You can acknowledge that as her sister, she wants to believe her. That's okay.

I'm okay with that portion of it. But to enable her by creating this fictitious document and disseminating it the way you did, that's where it was your job to step in and go, hey, Piper, I love you, I support you, I believe you, but this is not the way. This is not the way to do it. And she didn't help the situation at all. If the truth's on your side, just go to court, present your real evidence, and, you know, the chips fall where they fall. If you have to falsify a document, that's not a good sign to indicate that what you're saying is true. Exactly. Exactly. So now Piper is living with Tina, and they spent all their time together talking about how much they hated Fred, feeding off each other until Piper's anger turned into obsession.

She blamed him for everything wrong in her life, even though he had spent years trying to help her. Things only got worse when a judge ruled that Fred no longer had to pay the alimony since he was already covering the $70,000 debt that Piper had built up. So the cherry on top was that Piper was ordered to pay Fred nearly $900 a month in child support. And this isn't good, right, because Piper can't hold the job. So now for once in her life, she's being asked, not even to pay back the $70,000 in debt she racked up, that her husband, because he's married to her, is legally and financially responsible for as well. Now she's got to pay him $900 a month for child support, and she can't keep a job,

and she's never in her life had to be responsible for anyone or anything, not even herself. So she completely ignored that court order, even though at this point she was working as a guardian ad litem, which is the most, I think, just ironic part of this, because that is an attorney assigned to protect children's best interest in custody, cases. So when you go through custody cases, your children will be assigned maybe one, maybe two, depending they may give a different one to each child, but they'll be assigned a guardian ad litem. And this person who's a lawyer will come and talk to the children, interview them more than once. And then they'll go to the court during the custody battle and say, this is, I'm here to protect the kids' interests. I don't care what mom says. I don't care what dad says. This is what the kids are saying. And based on the many interviews I've had and the consistency of their statements, This is what I believe to be true. That's their job. And you got somebody who's absolutely a banana nut Sunday with extra nuts being a guardian ad litem for children.

Hey, let's keep the Sundays out of this, all right? What do they do to you? Well, they got extra nuts. Who doesn't love a good Sunday with extra nuts? I do. But not to represent my child in court. No, caramel? Oh, I'm definitely getting enough Sunday after we're done recording now.

No, bananas, hot fudge. What, caramel? Whoa. Are you saying hot fudge over? Caramel. Hot fudge over caramel all day, every day. Oh, my word. We're not friends anymore.

Caramel? Everyone in the comments right now, caramel or hot fudge. This isn't an apple. This is a banana split Sunday. A banana split Sunday. Yes, that's what they're called banana split Sundays with extra nuts. That doesn't sound like you're saying it right. Yeah, it's banana split.

Yeah, banana split Sunday. I've ordered enough of them in my life to know that's accurate. And you know what? They've all come with hot hot chocolate. chocolate hot chocolate hot chocolate hot chocolate which is chocolate that stuff that you yeah that stuff i love all right caramel so no so to market her services as a guardian piper created the weirdest business card i have ever seen oh my god i got a link here am i supposed to open this yeah let's look at this oh god what this is her business card all right so listen if you're on audio we're going to describe this

to you as best as we can, but you really got to go over to YouTube and look at it yourself, but it's definitely a really bad Photoshop job. It looks like it could be some type of biblical flyer. So it's like an angel holding the scales of justice on one side. Yeah, but it's not like... It's not the real scale, yeah. It looks like very like gothic, like something you'd see in a medieval church. What's that movie with Tom Hanks?

Which one? Where he's like trying to figure out the mystery. code. Thank you. It's very DaVinci code coded. Am I? Did I nail it? Yeah. Absolutely. And then there's a picture of her, like, kind of like her arms crossed and her back to, you know, something. And then above her, it says, if you feel you don't have the right or are convinced that you are not deserving, then we must talk or we need to talk. We need to talk. Then we need to talk. I don't know. Yeah. And the photo, the photo is not terrible. The photo. The photo is not terrible. The photo. photo's okay, everything else around it. And she has like a... I mean, it's kind of weird. She's intensely looking into the camera. Like, I am the angel of justice. The angel of justice. But it looks like it's like a St. Michael behind her because he's, he or she is holding a sword. I don't know, man. She, she, this was not well thought

out. But everything you have talked about tonight and the woman that you have described to us, this adds up. This flyer just tracks. Yeah, it does. I see it and I'm surprised. But at the same time, I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, I got it. I got it. This is very piper. That's so piper. It looks like a crappy cover to a DVD that was made by some student.

Yeah, for their for their like thesis about how the Egyptian pyramids were built by aliens. Yeah. Well, but again, it tracks. I'm with it. All right, I need a break. Let's take our last one. We're going to be back. We'll wrap this episode up.

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to get your free assessment and find the plan that's right for you. That's right. That's PDSdebt.com slash crime weekly. Take control before your case gets any colder. All right, Derek. We've been doing this show for years now. And honestly, one of the longest running relationships in my life might just be with my Helix mattress. Yeah, same. I've had mine for years.

And it's still as good as day one. No sagging. No back pain. Just a solid sleep every single night. When I first got mine, I went through Helix's sleep quiz. It matches you to the perfect match. based on how you sleep. It asks you things like, do you use like a firmer mattress,

softer mattress? Do you like to sit on your side on your back? Do you sleep hot, cold, et cetera? So I ended up with the Helix Midnight Lux. I think that's the same one you have. Same one I have. Yep, love it. Been a total game changer.

I used to wake up with really sore shoulders and especially a stiff neck. I've got neck problems. It's genetic. My mom has them, her mom. But I guess they didn't have a helix mattress because now I wake up actually feeling rested. Yeah, I'm the same way.

run hot when I sleep, and this thing keeps me cool all night. Plus, it's held up through moves, kids, and the occasional dog jumping attack. So, yeah, it's approved. Mine has myself, sometimes one to two kids and four dogs in it all the time. And it's still holding strong. So we've both had our Helix mattresses for years. They've seriously stood the test of time. So if you're ready to upgrade your sleep, now is the time. Helix is offering 25% off sitewide for our listeners. Yeah, all you have to do is go to helix sleep.com slash crime weekly for 25% percent off everything and make sure to enter our show name after checkout so they know that we sent you.

That's helixleep.com slash crime weekly. Better sleep, better mornings, and maybe even fewer complaints during recording days. All right, we're back. So Piper is just, I don't know, what the hell is she doing? She's living with her sister. They're getting each other all riled up. You know, I can imagine it every night. They're just coming home, pouring the wine and like making.

voodoo dolls that look like Fred. And then she's being, you know, working as a guardian ad litem for other children who are going through custody issues in their families. And that's the scariest part of this, I will say, the absolute scariest part of this, that that was allowed to happen. Considering what she was going through, I don't think that that was the best job for her. And there should have been some checks and balances because she's going to obviously, even if she's not an insane person, which I believe she is, she's going to have a bias at this point, right? she's possibly going to have a bias towards the mother, even if that's not the correct decision to make. So I just don't think she should have been allowed to do this and work in this capacity during her own divorce and custody battle.

That's just my opinion. Are you like with me on that? I mean, listen, I'm with you, but at the same time, I understand why it's allowed legally it's okay. But yeah, knowing her, not everyone knows her like you're describing her to us. They're only seeing the end product, although that flyer should have scared everybody. Yeah, I wonder how many calls she got. Probably a lot because it's so polarizing that you'd be like, I got a call. So even after everything she had put him through, Fred was still nice to Piper.

He emailed her updates about the kids, sent photos, and tried to keep things civil. Because he's probably hoping, hey, I do think my wife or my ex-wife has a mental illness, but eventually I would like her to get help. I would like her to have therapy and maybe take medication and she'll get better. And then she can be there for our children again, even if we don't reunite. She can be there for our children again. But at times, Piper appeared polite in return, though she still refused to pay child support. Meanwhile, her job as a guardian, surprise, surprise, it was unraveling.

She'd been taking client deposits without telling her employer, and when he found out, she was let go. Well, no more need for that flyer. So then, in 2002, after 19 years of marriage, Piper and Fred had their final court hearing for their divorce in child custody battle. In the end, the judge ordered Piper to repay more than eight. thousand dollars in back child support and return Fred's mother's jewelry that she stole. It seemed like a major loss for Piper, but it wasn't really because she was also awarded 20% of Fred's retirement, which was around $70,000. And for a while after this ruling, things were quiet. It seemed like the money had pacified Piper and the drama was at a low point, at least in Piper standards. Fred was

starting to feel like he could breathe again. By October of 2004, Fred was happier than he'd been in years. He was dating a woman named Charlene and things were serious enough that he introduced her to the kids. It was also his favorite season, Halloween. Together, he and his kids decorated the yard and made plans to spend Halloween day at a pumpkin patch. On Friday, October 29th, Fred spoke to his girlfriend, Charlene, and mentioned emailing Piper to let her know that he was going to let the kids visit her for Thanksgiving. This was a big step for Fred, but it seemed like the right one. Things with Piper had been calm and okay recently, and the kids deserved. to see their mom.

Now, the next morning, Fred followed his normal routine, getting up around 6 a.m. and putting on some coffee. Just after 6.35, while it was still dark, he stepped outside in his slippers to get the newspaper at the end of his driveway. Just then, someone emerged from the shadows near the garage and shot him multiple times in the back with a 38 revolver. Fred collapsed, landing on the edge of the driveway between his Ford Explorer and a basketball hoop.

His neighbor, Bob, who had heard the gunfire and called 911, was unsure where the shot had come from, but was certain that they were close. Police arrived and searched the area but found nothing. At around 7.30, Bob and his wife, Doreen, took their dogs for a walk and noticed something in Fred's driveway. When Bob looked closer, he realized it was Fred Jablin. He immediately told Doreen to call the police. When paramedics arrived, they tried to revive Fred with CPR and heart stimulating drugs, but it was too late. He was pronounced dead at the scene. Officers then learned that Fred's three children were likely inside the house, so SWAT was called in as a precaution. When they entered, they found Jocelyn, Callie, and Paxton, sleepy but unharmed, and quickly escorted them outside away from their father's body.

With the kids safe, officers canvassed the neighborhood hoping to identify any obvious suspects, and it didn't take long before they had a name to look into, Piper Roundtree. Neighbors talked about the years of turmoil she'd caused, and the more officers heard, the clear it became that she was their most likely suspect. I wonder if they saw that business card, because that would have locked it in for me. That would have been like, we got them. Let's find her. So they began tracing her movements before and after the shooting. And what they uncovered was strange. Once again, even for Piper.

But all of that's going to have to wait for part two. So this is part one. We have part two. And that's going to be the end. We're not going to have multiple parts that we're not going to tell you about part two. I wish we were recording it right now because it just seems so clear cut. So I really want to know more. But either way, it's important to cover this case.

never heard about it before. I think a lot of our listeners and viewers probably haven't either. So good case. I'm hooked. I want part two. I'm ready for it. A couple house cleaning things. I didn't mention them at the beginning. I mentioned on Crime Weekly News. The criminal coffee merch, the Halloween hoodie, is in. I do apologize. We sold out in one day. That's on me. I only ordered like 300 pieces, 400 pieces. And they went super fast. So I just ordered another bulk of them. they should be in this week. If you really want one, because we've had a lot of people reach out,

go over to Criminal Coffeeco.com, go to the sweatshirt, click on it, and then where you click to purchase it, it says notify me when in stock. So as soon as we update the stock, you're going to get notified and you can grab it

because they're going to go fast. I didn't order a ton. We don't want to do them after Halloween month. So again, thank you for all the support. We truly appreciate it. We're glad you love them. And I do apologize for not.

ordering correctly, but it's so hard. Some go super fast like our valet. We didn't know. The Valentine's Day hoodies, we sold like over 1,000. And then the same Paddy's hoodies, we only sold like 300. I mean, Derek, I told you these ones are going to fly. As soon as I saw the design. They're pretty great.

Ashley knocked it out of the park. It's great. And also, something I'm going to try for episodes going forward. It'll be on the screen to the right or left of us or might be over the whole screen. A lot of you reach out and say, hey, what was the ad that you covered in this episode? We didn't know what it was. What was the product? Can you put it up there?

We're going to put up an image right now, a graphic where you'll see all the ads for the episode and their contact info. If you're someone who's watching on YouTube, that's something we're going to start doing as well. So that's on the screen here. Probably won't mention it in future episodes. It'll just be up there at the end of each episode. As always, guys, we appreciate you being here. All the love and support. We couldn't do it without you.

We're going to keep it rolling. A lot more to come. Some few surprises that were coming down the road for sure. Stephanie now have some great plans. And we can't wait to share them with all of you. We hope everyone's happy, having a good holiday season, and we will see you next week. But until then, what am I going to say? Stephanie.

Stay safe out there. Stay safe out there. We'll see you next week. Less than an hour from downtown. You'll feel a world away with Durham Tourism's new discovery guide, open skies. Explore day trip destinations, overnight getaways, and 129 must-try experiences in Durham region. From historic sites to starry nights and delicious days to downtown dates. Want to keep your luggage light and your dollars in Canada?

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