Crime Weekly - S3 Ep354: BTK | The Mask of Dennis Rader (Part 1)

Episode Date: October 31, 2025

In 1974, Wichita, Kansas was shaken by a series of brutal attacks inside family homes. Men, women, and children were bound, tortured, and killed by a predator who called himself BTK. For 17 years, he terrorized the community, claiming at least 10 victims and taunting police with disturbing letters that detailed his crimes. Then in 1991, the killings abruptly stopped, leaving law enforcement and the public to wonder if the killer had vanished forever.  For more than a decade, there was silence. Then in 2004, BTK resurfaced with new messages, reigniting fear in Wichita. But that renewed need for attention would ultimately be his downfall, and by the following year, detectives had identified the killer as Dennis Rader, a father of two, a Scout leader, and a trusted member of his church council. Rader was the last person anyone suspected of being a sexual sadist serial killer, but once investigators began putting all the puzzle pieces together, it became clear that Rader’s family-man persona was just a mask covering the monster beneath. Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. Download June's Journey: https://woo.ga/v79wbxd2 - Love solving mysteries of your own? Play June's Journey today! June’s Journey is available on iOS and Android mobile devices, as well as on PC. 2. https://www.littlespoon.com/CRIMEWEEKLY50 - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY50 for 50% off your first Little Spoon order! 3. https://www.Quince.com/CRIMEWEEKLY - Get FREE shipping and 365-day returns at Quince!

In 1974, Wichita, Kansas was shaken by a series of brutal attacks inside family homes. Men, women, and children were bound, tortured, and killed by a predator who called himself B.T.K. For 17 years, he terrorized the community, claiming at least 10 victims and taunting police with disturbing letters that detailed his crimes. Then, in 1991, the killings abruptly stopped, leaving law enforcement and the public to wonder if the killer had vanished forever. For more than a decade, there was silence. Then, in 2004, BTK resurfaced with new messages, reigniting fear in Wichita.

But that renewed need for attention would alter. ultimately be his downfall. And by the following year, detectives had identified the killer as Dennis Rader, a father of two, a scout leader, and a trusted member of his church council. Rader was the last person anyone suspected of being a sexual sadist serial killer. But once investigators began putting all the puzzle pieces together, it became clear that Rader's family man persona was just a mask covering the monster beneath. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly.

I'm Stephanie Harlow. And as you heard from the teaser, we are covering BTK today and probably for the next three crime weekly episodes. So I think this will be in four parts. It could definitely be in more, but I think we can get the basics and the really general idea of what's happening here in four. But what do you think?

I'm excited. Yeah. No, I'm excited. I had said on Crime Weekly News when we announced that we were covering this case. I did an episode on crime feed for discovery. So I had a little bit of an understanding of the case. We were talking more about the drawings that BTK had released or they had recovered after he. was found, but I didn't go into the details. And that's what I'm looking forward to doing.

We both know Kerry Rawson, his daughter, and she's been very instrumental in the true crime community and going on different documentaries and series and talking about serial killers and her personal experience with them. And I think she's provided a lot of insight, a lot of knowledge that have probably helped other cases. I know she's been working on some other cases as well. And she's also been helping on her father's case where they're still potentially linking other victims to him. And she's been instrumental in that as well. So I like when we take a case that everyone feels like they know and then we break it apart and put it back together. And I feel like most of the time what we pride ourselves on is putting something in there that

maybe you hadn't heard about and giving our own little spin on it. So that's what we're going to try to do here. And making you think about it in a different way. So what has stood out to me about BTK is he was a serial killer who operated primarily out of Wichita, Kansas, and like the surrounding area of Sedgwick County. And that's crazy because if you look at it statistically, most serial killers don't stay rooted in the one area, that especially if it's an area they live in the way that BTK did, right? So we have a lot of serial killers, most of them who use the mobility to help them avoid detection, right? So you have somebody who maybe lives in a certain area, but they'll travel to commit their crimes or people who are like truck

drivers. And so they're traveling naturally and they're committing their crimes. But it's weird that BTK not only committed all the crimes in the same community that he lived in, basically, but he stopped for a while and then came back to Wichita where he lived the whole time. So he never even left. He didn't stop and then say, oh, the heat's on. I better get out of here. He stopped allegedly, as far as we know. And then he stayed and he lived there. And then years later, he picked back up and started, you know, taunting and harassing law enforcement and the public again in the same location. So I don't know what that says about him psychologically or, you know, what his self-confidence level was pretty high. But they say the most successful people are the ones

that have a delusional self-belief in themselves to do anything. And I think Dennis Rader was. There's a delusional confidence there, right? Yeah. And the cockiness where they feel like I'm smarter than the police. And also when you talk about 1991, I truly don't know the reasoning behind him stopping. I'm sure we're going to get into that. And my guess would be there is a reason.

I worked a case years ago, the Honolulu Strangler, we believed that we solved it. And he had stopped for a while as well. And what we eventually learned was that it was when he had his son killed. Well, he didn't have him killed, but his son was killed during a tragic car accident. He was changing his tire on the side of the road, and he was killed. And that's when the killing stopped. So this guy was on a rampage. He killed multiple women, I believe it was five women in Honolulu.

And the only reason he stopped was because of this tragedy. And, you know, he eventually died himself of old age or cancer or something. but there's usually a reason for the stoppage. And that is something just based on the teaser. I'm going to be really keen on hearing because I want to know why. Why did he stop and then why did he come back? I would venture to say off the rip, it's probably something to do with the kids one way or another.

But we will see that is one of my many questions that I have about this case. And I also, just from an investigator angle, I like to learn about these cases almost like a textbook because it's something that you can hear the patterns of behavior, the modus operandi and then apply it to your little toolbox. And if cases come up that aren't solved where we're still looking for the person, you may be able to take something from this case and apply it there. So always learning, always growing, even though this is a podcast,

we're trying to cover this case, but also solve others. And who knows, maybe there's something in this one that will help us do that. I mean, it's a very debated part of BTK's story. Why did he stop? He has his own explanations. They don't totally really add up altogether, but he basically did say, here's the reasons I stopped, but the urge never went away. He kept fantasizing about it, making detailed notes, you know, very much still like a dry alcoholic kind of. Is that what they call them like a dry alcoholic who's not necessarily drinking, but is still thinking about it every single day?

But we'll get into all of that. First, as you know, to understand what happened at the end, we always. always have to go back to the beginning. So that's where we're going because Dennis Lynn Raider was born on March 9th, 1945 to his parents, Dorothea May and William Elvin. And Dorothea and William had been high school sweethearts. So Dennis was the first of the couple's four boys with younger brothers, Paul, Billy, and Jeff. Dennis, who I'm going to refer to as Raider throughout this series, later opened up about his childhood to Dr. Catherine Ramsland, who wrote confession of a serial killer based on their conversations. Great book, I highly suggested if you

haven't read it yet. Raider explained that his father, William, came from a strict religious background, and as an adult, he went to church every week and studied the Bible in his free time. William was also extremely organized, believing that everything had a purpose and a place, something that Raider could relate to. Raider seemed to actually like his father, William, even though he was often at work, holding two jobs to support the family. Raiders' relationship with his mother, however, was more complicated, and his feelings toward her seemed to change depending on the topic. Sometimes he complained that she was never happy and did things he viewed as non-Christian,

like smoking or watching TV instead of focusing on her kids. Other times, he talked about how much he loved her. And that definitely is something I've seen a pattern with that serial killers, they don't necessarily have the most wholesome family lives all the time, even though Dennis Raiders life could technically and traditionally be seen as wholesome, I would say that there was a lot of control being exerted as far as religion and routine and doing the right thing. But he wasn't, you know, his father wasn't this horrible alcoholic beating him up like many serial killers talk about, but a lot of serial killers say they have issues with their mothers. And that tracks for me

because you got to think about it from the angle of why would they do this? And there's clearly a hatred toward women. Yeah, and a lot of their victims are women. I'd have to imagine that with each killing, he saw something in this person that reminded him of his mother, which allowed him to do what he did. I think there's probably points where he fantasized about killing his own mother. And for one reason or another, he never did that. But instead of that, he went after these women and took it out on them. And like Ed Gein, right, his mother, unlike Raider's father, Ed Gein's mother was obsessively

religious and taught him that women were sinful. And so it kind of seemed like maybe Dennis Rader's father was sort of imposing the same belief that Dennis Rader then projected onto his own mother because it's like, oh, I see her smoking. Yeah, how could she? Yeah, like this was the time where everyone smoked, you know, I see her smoking or she's watching TV instead of paying attention to her children. And it's like, well, everybody needs a break, you know. So it's this very, I'm projecting what has been programmed into me onto someone else.

and it happens to be a woman in this case, because we have to be honest. There were times, especially in early Christianity, and then as it went through, that women weren't maybe as respected as men in the relationship. We're not seen as equals, for sure. Yeah. So when Raider was around three or four years old, the family moved from the small town of Columbus, Kansas, to Wichita. And his father began working for Boeing while his mother took a job at Leekers' family food as their bookkeeper.

Even with the 150-mile distance from Columbus, Rader and his brothers spent a lot of time on the farms where their grandparents still lived, and he remembered those visits as happy times spent outdoors, exploring old buildings, climbing into silos, and playing games where you had to capture a prisoner. Yeah, it sounds like he had a pretty wholesome, not terrible childhood, honestly. I don't know, it's crazy. But things were also difficult for Rader. Around the same age as the move to Wichita, the monster. began to appear in his mind.

And he refers to this monster as Factor X or the Black Hat. And he says that this monster was always present and pushed him toward bad thoughts. The bad thoughts were so extreme that he believed he would become a killer when he grew up. So understand, they said that this happened around the same time as his family moved to Wichita, which was when Dennis Rader was four or three years old, very, very young. So from this very young age, he's thinking to himself, I'm going to become a killer when I grow up. And despite those feelings, though, he tried very hard to be good and to hide the fact that he felt different from other kids. He went to church and sat in the front pew and focused on positive influences.

During times like this, he felt like he was in control. And these times became known as the white hat. So they usually happened when he was busy or being social like at church or school. but when he became bored, frustrated, or depressed, the black hat thoughts grew stronger. This conflict between the white hat and the black hat would follow him throughout childhood and well into adulthood. And it does really correlate with what we talked about earlier. Why did he stop in 1991?

And why did he stop for over a decade? Well, because there was things going on in his life that provided him busyness and distraction. And you know what they say? Idle hands. And this is also, too, how they will identify. someone that's kind of what we did with with with Honolulu strangler was okay we know that he stopped for a period of time we have a potential suspect was there anything that happened in this person's life that would align with the pattern of behavior for the serial killer and what we found within like

a month of his son's tragic death the killing stopped and I'm sure with Dennis raider that's what they also did where they said okay there was a period where he stopped that we know the serial killer stopped where we haven't found any of the victims, we think we might have the right guy, does his life that we now know of align with that? And sure, there are things that we are like, okay, that tracks. It is interesting to me because this is one of the, one of the few serial killers I know that are saying like, hey, since a very, very young age. Yeah, that is interesting. Like three or four. And I knew that I was going to become a killer. So it almost became like a self-fulfilling prophecy. And if you kind of assume from such a young age when your brain's

being programmed that you're going to grow up to kill, I would be surprised if you didn't grow up to kill, right? And that part isn't that surprising to me. We've had other kids who do some horrific things at a very young age. And I don't know how to explain it. I'm sure there's a scientific explanation, a chemical imbalance, whatever it might be. But there's also a part of me, whether you're religious or not that just believes that some people are inherently evil yeah you know that just there's something in them just like there's a lot of good people out there that are just naturally good there are also some people that are just naturally bad and and sometimes they're good at hiding it sometimes it's you know you're well aware of it at a young age i've had kids that i've walked into a

school and when i sat down and talked with them i'm talking seven eight years old i just knew based on how they were reacting and how they looked right through me, I'd seen that same look in the eyes of some 30, 40-year-old killers. Yeah. And that wasn't something that was learned. That's just who they are. This darkness, just this like hollowness and the way they look through you. And I'm like, got to keep an eye on that one.

Yeah, I think that when we cover these cases like we do so much over and over and over again, sometimes you encounter a case where you have no other explanation than to be like, there's demons out there walking amongst us. You know, I can't, I can't come up with another plausible explanation. I can't understand this with my, with my brain. There's demons out there. So, yeah, and Dennis Rader could definitely be one of them. If there's demons out there, he's definitely one of them.

I would agree. So along with the black hat came sexual deviance. And Rader said his first troubling memory came around the same time the monster started talking to him. He told Dr. Ramsland, quote, one day, either my mom was testing me to see what I would do, or she actually got her hand caught in the sofa. She asked me to go run for help next door. Her wedding band was caught in the spring, I think, and she was crying in panic. I was scared yet excited. I stared at her. I had a strange feeling in the pit of my stomach and the groin area.

I ran next door for help. I often wonder if the early emotions of this triggered some inner dark feeling about a woman in bondage needing help. The sofas replayed in my mind many times. Not mom, but women in bondage on them, end quote. And Rader believes this was the moment when his imagination started to connect fear, distress, and control. Now, there's a few things here. So in his quote, he says, I wonder if she was either testing me or if she actually got her hand caught in the sofa. And it's like, why would she be testing you to see what you would do? Yeah.

So I think this really does show this innate need. for control because a lot of the times when people have a way of thinking so for instance Dennis Raider everything's about control right and for a lot of people who are who commit sexual assault it's not about the sexual act it's about the control and the forced in nature of that sexual act right yeah so he's thinking oh I control everything and I want to control everybody and I test people to see how they'll react so maybe she was doing that he's projecting like his own set of viewpoints in the way he views the world onto other people. Because why would she be testing you?

What is she testing? I wonder if he'll actually go get me help or if he'll get turned on by this. You know, no, she wasn't testing him. By the way, when you talk about control, another case that reminds me of that where it's some prime examples of it would be the Long Island serial killer, Rex Heurman, allegedly. Rex Hurerman, not convicted yet, but we all know he did it. We all know. another case where you start to look at his his note, his journal, if you will, where he breaks

down how he's going to do the killing, how he's going to carry out the cleaning after the killing, very organized, very controlled down to every little thing, every little tool that's going to be used, very matter of fact. And you see that pattern of behavior with a lot of these killers. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's almost like, it's almost like the Long Island serial killer It was probably going to be our last example of a serial killer who evaded authorities for any extended amount of time, honestly. Well, the thing is, the crazy part is they have names on them, but I bet you there's a lot of, I don't even bet you. I know there's a lot of unsolved murders out there where because they haven't been solved, they haven't been able to connect them, right? Like maybe the MO is not perfect or they happen in different parts of the country, but I can't remember what case we were talking about.

but we've identified a certain number of victims for a particular killer. You know there's more. What case were we just covering where you're like, I just wonder if there's more out there, if it was just these guys? Oh, it was a serial killer that just got caught. Was it Bear Brook murders? I think it was Bear Brook murders.

We were talking about it on an episode of CWN, though, and you were like, I wonder if there's more in between because it was like a lull. Yeah, I mean, I say that every time. Yeah. And we know, we know there's more. There's got to be more. He didn't just stop. And so to me, that's the part here where there's other serial killers out there that maybe we just haven't even connected their victims together yet.

But I do agree with you in a sense that serial killers today, like I think Brian Coburger, if given the opportunity, would have been a serial killer. That's what he wanted. This was his trial run. Yeah. Yes. This was the culmination of all his studies and research and planning. And if he'd gotten away with it, it would have only emboldened him, 100%. That's what I think.

I mean, there are one-timers who have that itch they want to scratch. And they do it, and they never commit another crime again. They never re-offend. But I do not think Koberger would have been one of those people. And I do think there are others that will try to replicate what like BTK and others have done. But because of science and technology, we're just talking about it on Crime Weekly News this week with Jennifer Kessie. It's going to be very difficult to pull it off. Maybe one killing, but more than that, there's going to be technology out there that's going to identify that pattern.

Which also scares me. though, because like Raider had said, I stopped, but the compulsion didn't go away. The feeling constantly didn't go away. So if they are afraid to do it for fear of getting caught, knowing how technology has advanced, who are they going to take out this compulsion on? Most likely their own children, their own families. You may even see people like this specifically getting married and having children just so they can make victims out of their children because you're more protected that way as a parent.

Definitely more insulated. And I also want to point out that Raider said this. was the first time that I had this connection right between panic and pain and then this like this feeling that I was attracted to it, this feeling that I liked it. And we did talk about this with the Crime Weekly News where that little girl was horribly abused by those other young children. And you said it, these feelings, this behavior doesn't come from nowhere. So where Dennis Raider is saying, I connected fear and distress and control. that was not a natural thing to connect. That's not how a human brain would naturally make that

connection. It's only because he felt happy and, like, excited by seeing his mother. Yeah, he got off to it. Yeah, that's where he made that connection. But that's not a normal connection that a normal child would make unless they, once again, were born, really messed up, or they saw something or witnessed something that allowed that connection to be made. So we're going to take a first quick break and we'll be right back so between all the real life mysteries we talk about on this show sometimes i just want a mystery that's more palatable one that i can actually solve and lately actually for a while that's been june's journey june's journey is this beautifully designed a hidden object mystery game set in the glamorous world of the 1920s one of my favorite eras and you play as

June Parker, an amateur detective trying to uncover the truth behind her sister's murder, every chapter reveals new secrets, twists, and stunningly detailed, beautiful scenes that you search through to find clues. Yeah, I love June's journey as well. It's not only the game. It looks incredible. The soundtrack, the art, it's like stepping right into a murder mystery novel, and it actually reminds me of a reality show game that I was just on not too long ago. So it's really cool. And I don't play a lot of games. June's Journey one is one that I really like. I know, you're right. It is beautiful. I've been talking about it forever. It's beautiful. It's relaxing. Like you said, the soundtrack is just this very like ambient sort of music that puts you right in the scene and the scene is gorgeous. And as you know, it's not just about finding hidden objects. You're artistic. So you appreciate that there's a ton of creative freedom too. You get to decorate your own island as you go, building and designing, however you want, unlocking new scenes and areas with every mystery that you solve. And I love that part. Yeah, it's kind of like a mystery novel slash cozy puzzle game. That's the best comparison I can give.

Yeah, exactly that. It's perfect when I want to unwind. It's challenging enough to keep your brain engaged, but also relaxing. It's not like stressful or cortisol inducing. I'll play a few scenes, collect clues, and suddenly an hour's gone by in the best way. And there are special events and seasonal stories, too. So there's always something new waiting. So if you like true crime, you're definitely going to like June's Journey.

You need to go download it right now. You should. It's free, by the way. You can play June's Journey on iOS, Android, or PC. Just click the link in the description or scan the QR code on screen to start your own investigation. That's June's journey. Download it now to see if you can uncover the secrets faster than we can. I don't know if you can. I don't think you can, but we'll see. Probably. It depends on the day.

Go download it now. Check it out. Let us know what you think. So as he got older, Dennis Raider said he also developed inappropriate feelings around his grandmother. He liked to lay in bed next to her and play with her long hair and the silk ribbons that she used to tie her hair with. He later connected this to his growing preference for women's silk garments, which he loved to touch and fantasize about. I just think about Dennis Rader's mother and grandmother, thinking that they're being like maternal and loving to this little boy and the things that are going through his head as he's like fingering their silk ribbons. Like, oh, disgusting, terrifying. So Raider eventually became fascinated with his mother's romance and detective magazines, focusing on the stories where women were in peril, especially if they were restrained. Around that same time, he learned about serial killer H.H. Holmes, who ran a murder hotel in Chicago.

Rader was drawn to the idea of trapping females in hidden spaces similar to what Holmes had done. He started imagining his own version of that scenario, which he called Death to Pretty Girls. I mean, that's pretty much just the kill the cheerleader trope that we see in horror movies at this point. But he described this fantasy space as a barn-like dungeon with wooden beams and chains. And he believed that this was the beginning of what he later called his need for terror and domination over women. By this point, Rader was developing what is known as parapheria. It's a sexual disorder that usually begins in childhood or adolescence and persists into adulthood. According to Dr. Ramsland, these disorders can become enduring patterns.

of behavior in which arousal is tied to objects, unusual activities, or deviant scenarios. They often grow more detailed and consuming over time. When fantasy becomes the main source of arousal, it can be very difficult for someone to shift back to normal experiences. For some, the fantasies eventually reach a tipping point where imagination evolves into action and they attempt to make real people play a role in these internal scenarios. So Dr. Ramsland noted that many serial killers forced their victim. into situations that satisfy those fantasies and then meet that need for control.

And I have a problem with every time there's something that's deviant like this and out of the ordinary, we've got to find some sort of like scientific or medical name for it to make it seem less abhorrent. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, he has a condition, like a mental health condition. It's like, yeah, I guess. But is this something that was out of his control? is it something he was born with? Once again, does that even matter at the end of the day? Because it's so rare that people would act on these fantasies. I'm sure it's common to have fantasies like this, but it's not common to act on these fantasies. And then you end up escalating and either killing people who you force to take part in your fantasies so they don't identify you, or

the killing of these people becomes part of the fantasy. And it's an issue. But I don't like been trying to normalize these incredibly abnormal sorts of disorders or whatever they want to call it. Well, this parapheria, just another definition I think is even more applicable to what we're discussing here. It's described as frequent intense sexual arousing fantasies or behaviors that involve inanimate objects, children, or non-consenting adults. And the in suffering and or humiliation will sometimes enhance the experience for, the person that's wanting to conduct this type of behavior. So well in line with BTK and what we do know about his victims. Well in line with somebody who is like, I don't give a shit if you have a disorder.

You don't belong around the general public. Yeah, accurate. So Raiders' parapherias continued to grow stronger as he got older, which they do. He began to enjoy spending time away from home, describing himself as a lone wolf. During those times alone, his imagination became more active. troubling fantasies that had started in early childhood intensified as he entered puberty, as they will. So some of those fantasies were rooted in his early experiences on the farm. He said he became aroused any time he went into a silo, especially when he imagined a childhood game in which a

prisoner would be tied and lowered inside. He pictured himself in the role of the prisoner, restrained and unable to escape. He also described gaining sexual excitement from witnessing disturbing things on the farm, including violence towards animals, especially chickens. His father talked about having hateful thoughts towards cats and building boxes to trap, torture, and kill them. There it is. There it is. There you go. What? That's crazy. As a young boy, Dennis Rader heard his father talk about trapping cats and torturing them and killing them. And then he developed some weird parapherias where he got off on the thought of trapping and torturing, killing, living beings.

Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Now, in contrast, Dennis Rader said that he loved dogs because he saw them as the closest living thing to a wolf. He said, quote, I relate to wolves. I was a lone wolf at times, end quote, which is so dumb because it's like, lone wolf is a figure of speech. It's not actually talking about a wolf. Wolf's typically actually scientifically run in packs.

So a lone wolf, I don't even think that's a real thing. You're just a human who doesn't have friends because you're weird. Yeah, but you don't get the saying, though. Like, wolves are dangerous in Pax, but they're also dangerous individually. So to be dangerous and alone, he's saying, I don't travel in Pax. I'm as dangerous as a wolf, but I travel alone. He said, I relate to wolves. I was a lone wolf at times.

There's just not like many incidences of lone wolves. And it's like. No, none really, very rare circumstance, which is why he's trying to say, like, I'm a rarity. That's what I'm a lone wolf. Then you don't relate to wolves. I'm as dangerous, but I travel alone. You relate to weird humans who think that they're killers from the time they're free. You're Bigfoot, but it doesn't roll off the tongue as well.

I'm a lone Bigfoot. I love Bigfoot. Sasquatch. Is it Big Feets? Is it Big Feets or Big Futs? Big Feet. When you're talking about more than one big foot, it's big feats. Oh, I mean, I don't know about that.

I've never seen one together, so. You've never seen two. I've never seen two together, yes. Have you seen one singularly? That's what I'm saying. I haven't seen them even alone. But what a pack of big foots, be big foots or big feats? I don't know.

But either way, we got off topic. So around the big feet. Big feet. Sounds singular, but big feet. A pack of big feet. A pack of big feet. Okay. I'm going to be thinking about this now.

Yes, this will be a clip. Shannon's cutting this as we speak. Around the time that Raider became a teenager, he found a story in one of his grandmother's true crime magazines about a man who killed his girlfriend through strangulation. Raider became sexually aroused and began to draw images of women restrained. He would then hide those drawings in what he called a, quote, hidey hole, end quote. Could go so many places with that, but I'm not going to touch it.

Yeah, he's got a lot of, not going to go there. A lot of nicknames for things. So he created this hidey hole in a tree. He also started practicing self-bondage and peeping in windows. Then, when Raider was 14, the clutter family was murdered in whole. Kansas after two former inmates went into the home, bound the parents and their two children before killing them. So this was a pretty famous case. It received national attention and Truman Capote later wrote in cold blood about it. Raider became fascinated by the case,

especially the use of rope to restrain victims. He could not get it out of his mind and started experimenting more frequently with bondage in the basement of his home and at a bridge near his home. I wonder if his parents are like, what the hell is Dennis doing in the basement? all the time like what's it what's dennis freaking doing down there he just loves being in the basement and then they go down there and see just like like yards and yards of rope i will say with a lot of these cases especially even like mass shootings suspects if the parents paid a little bit closer attention there might have there's probably signs there that would indicate something's wrong but when you have parents who are kind of just letting the kids do whatever they want they're down

in the basement basically building bombs not in this case but you know what i mean yes um Things can slip through the cracks because the first line of defense in any of these cases to prevent them from happening. Early intervention. Yeah, are the parents. And what do we find in all of these cases? The parents are completely, in some circumstances, right, completely oblivious that little Johnny was doing what they were doing. Yeah, they just assume they're doing what they should be doing. Yeah, they give them a gun and then they, you go, you go have fun.

Yeah. And I mean, honestly, this was, we have to keep in mind the 50s, the 60s, the 60s. A little different. Mental health was not a huge focus. in the public, especially mental health for kids. Nobody really kind of thought that way that kids would even need mental health. It was kind of like, oh, they'll grow out of it. You know, it's just he's a boy. Just write some dirt on it. Yeah, just tying yourself up in the basement. It's what boys do. No big deal. Maybe he's learning his Cub Scout knots. You know,

they're not going to, they're almost trying to ignore it because if they didn't ignore it, they'd have to say, hey, are kids different and needs help? And back then, that would have been something to be ashamed of and to, you know, worry about public scrutiny and how the community would view you, et cetera. So yeah, I think parents at that time were kind of like, let's just act like we don't see that Dennis is a little off. Little Dennis, he's fine. He's fine. He's just got his hidey hole. He's walking around in silk robes. He's got his, he's got his grandmother's around his wrist and ankles. Hey, mom, hey dad. He's got his grandmother's silk ribbons in his hidey hole. No big deal. Yeah, he's sitting out by his hidey hole in his silk robe.

That's just Dennis in his hidey hole. No big deal. So. Oh, my God. God. And you know that the mom was like to Dennis' dad. She's like, something's going on. He's like, he's fine. He's fine. He's a good Christian, God-fearing boy. The amount of DNA evidence in the Heidi hole could solve a lot of cases.

Well, Dennis's parapherias kept intensifying. And once he learned to drive, he went to stores specifically to look at detective magazines that featured women in distress. He also collected what he called slick ads, which were advertisements featuring women in feminine clothing. Dennis has words for everything, right? His Heidi hole, slick ads, what did he call the revenge on the pretty girls or something? He's very much a creative mind. We know that. Maybe he would have been good in advertising or marketing, but he's got his little words for things. And Dennis said that he would tear out certain images and keep them, often focusing on women

who had dark eyes and dark hair. Sometimes he traced those images onto blank paper. and draw restraints on to them. He hid these materials in his hidey hole, but not the one in the tree. This was a different hidey hole. This is his hidey hole in the attic. He's got many hidey holes. I want someone to keep a tally of how many times we say hidey hole tonight because I can, Gary, I'm going 10 plus. More than we ever have before. It's a, it's, I'm taking the over, 10 or under, 10 or over. Who's going over? Who's going under? Well, I think we'll go over. Yeah. Oh, I think we will, too. I think we're already at like nine. So he's got his hidey hole in the tree. He's got that. He's got the attic hidey hole, and then he would keep different materials in different hidey holes,

but he had these specific materials in the attic, and he'd often bring them out while engaging in bondage. He became so dependent on these fantasies that if he could not access his collections, he would stand in front of a mirror and draw imaginary restraints on his own reflection to try to satisfy the same compulsion. Once again, this is a common thread I see in serial killers because Jeffrey Dahmer did this, like looked at himself in the mirror and like got off on imagining things. Dennis Nielsen, a British or a UK serial killer, he would do the same thing. They used the mirror for these things and then kind of got off on seeing themselves in a certain way or envisioning themselves in the mirror as like somebody else in the room

with them, an unwilling partner. So then when Raider was 17, he got into a car accident and sustained a potentially serious head injury. Now, this was probably not what Dennis Raider of all people needed, a serious head injury, but believe it or not, this was the third head injury of his life. He said the first happened before he was born when his mother fell from a horse while pregnant with him. I don't know if that's actually accurate. I don't know if that's actually possible, I should say. The second happened when he was a baby and he was dropped on his head. Now, as many of you already know, these injuries are notable because research shows how many serial killers did suffer from brain injuries.

and a recent study conducted at Traquia Medical University actually found that 80% of the most high-profile serial killers have had significant brain injuries. Now, the study suggested that, quote, head injuries, especially those affecting specific brain regions, can lead to problems with impulse control, emotional regulation, and decision-making. Findings also suggest that timing plays a key role too.

Early life brain injuries, particularly during critical development stages, disrupt emotional and social development, whereas brain injuries during adolescence often impair impulse control and judgment, end quote. Yeah, this totally, I mean, we were just saying it where I was talking about how there's probably a scientific explanation for why children at such a young age may already have these thoughts or feelings about killing someone,

and this is probably one explanation that would check most of those boxes, right? that something happened, whether it was identified or not, where there was a traumatic injury to the brain at a young age. Now, maybe it's something that goes unidentified. Maybe it's falling off a garage or they have a concussion that's more severe than they thought. And these brain injuries ultimately rewire or disconnect something that's needed for us to function normally. And I think it's important because if we can identify these data points in young children, we can potentially flag them as someone that needs to be monitored going forward because they have a, they have a, I guess, a predisposition based on this injury or this genetic marker that allows us to say,

hey, it's not their fault, but this is the case. And now we have to, we have to keep them on a radar. They have to be in a system. And now a lot of people are probably type in right now as I'm saying all that, because what if it's your kid? You know, where do we draw the line? line. But I do think if you have enough studies to show, hey, with this particular injury on the brain, you're 80 to 90 percent more likely to commit crime or whatever it might be. There would have to be a lot of data to support that before any parent would be willing to do that. How would you feel about that? I'm going to ask this to the audience as well, but hypothetically, you have a child who's seven years old and they're displaying some weird behavior. So you bring them to a doctor

where they have an ability to identify if your child has like some onset of like CTE or something like that, right? They identify this marker in your little boy or girl and say, hey, we want to keep an eye on them going forward because they could potentially hurt people down the road. What would your response be? Oh, that's a slippery slope, right? Exactly. That's why I'm asking you.

By the way, I want everybody to weighing down the comments, let me know what you think. What would your response be? Once you go to a medical establishment like that, it's on the same. the record, right? So is that record going to be used and your child to be treated differently because of that potentiality? They're going to be on the FBI list? Right. Is there some, yeah, is there some list that they're going to be on? I don't know. I don't know. The super slippery slope. It's kind of minority reportish, right? And by the way, for anybody doesn't know what minority report is, movie, they basically can predict crime. They lock people up before they predict, before they carry out

the crime. So just a quick, that's a quick version of it. Now, here's the thing, though, a lot of these head injuries. Now, we know the one that when he was in a car accident in his teens, most likely valid, but the, oh, my mother fell off a horse when she was pregnant with me, so I got a brain injury. And then when I was baby, I was dropped on my head. So I got a brain injury. First of all, those are probably self-reported as in they may not have ever happened, A, and B, it's just not super likely that a trauma to the mother, even if it is a fall, would cause, like, brain injury to the point that it would affect neurological or developmental, like, it wouldn't cause neurological or developmental impairment.

That happens in less than 1% well under 1% of pregnancies. You're protected. You're very protected in there as the fetus. But you think about the food they eat, the activities they conduct, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, things like that, you would think that if it's a hard enough hit to the stomach region just by the shaking of that, the abruptness of it could cause an injury to the brain based on how soft the skull is at that point. But that's interesting. But the uterus provides protection. That protection because of the fluid? If you were a baby and you were dropped on

your head, I suppose that's definitely possible that it could cause a TBI. But if you're in a liquid bubble is what you're saying. Yeah, but also did that happen? Did either of those things happen? Or is he just trying to use excuses? Because Dennis Raider has never allowed his brain to be scanned, whereas other serial killers have. So we can't actually prove that that happened. We just have to take his word for it. And I'm not willing to do that. I would bet a large sum of money, whether he's lying about those incidents or not. I bet you he has something wrong, something in there that they would be able to identify at this point. A hundred percent. Even if it's not from a brain injury, you'd be able to see certain parts of the brain that were less developed or more developed.

And that would give a direct line to how his behavior happened. Yeah, I agree. But how would that compared to like the brain of like an Aaron Hernandez. You know, I would love to see those comparisons. Oh, absolutely. Not saying Aaron Hernandez was a serial killer, but Aaron Hernandez was a dangerous dude who didn't. He wasn't thinking. He didn't care about taking someone's life. So I do wonder, would there be similarities? Would it be slightly different? Would it be in the same region of the brain? These are all things that could help us as a society moving forward to know this information. I think we often see though, TBI's like with Aaron Hernandez. It was very much like he couldn't control himself. Like his temper. Impulse control.

was not there, yeah. Impulse control, but also, like, not the ability to hide it. Like, he didn't have that ability. Dennis Rader did. He was very calculated, and he was very good at hiding. So can we really blame a brain injury? I don't know. All right. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. Okay, tell me if this sounds familiar. It's almost 6 p.m. The kids are starving, and you're standing in front of the refrigerator holding half a snack pouch, two grapes, and zero dinner plans. That sounds oddly specific. Because it's real life, Derek. Parenthood doesn't come with a meal plan. Nobody told you that, but thankfully, Little Spoon does. They deliver real fresh food for babies, toddlers, and big kids straight to your door. So meal time actually feels

manageable. And in my house, I've talked about this before, the big hit these days is the chicken dunkers and lunchers. My kid thinks that they're nuggets. Oh my God, they're so good. I think they're good. My kids think that they're nuggets with dipping sauce. I love that they're packed with hidden veggies. Nobody's crying. Everyone eats. I feel good about it. That's a win. Yeah. And that's what I like as well. It's convenient, but it's still good food. It's real ingredients, no dyes. None of the weird stuff. We need more of that, especially with all the processed food that we have out there today. Exactly. Their meals are made with the help of pediatricians. They're packed with hidden veggies. And somehow my kids still ask for seconds. Plus, everything shows up at your door every two weeks.

So dinner is one less thing to stress about, whether it's breakfast or lunch, Little Spoon has you covered. And here's the exciting part. Little Spoon is now on Target. So on your next diaper run, or let's be honest, your candle sniffing break, you can grab their snacks, pouches and yogurt smoothies right in the store. They even have an exclusive frozen line with their cult favorite chicken nuggets. Oh, they have meatballs and sliders too, which are also good. That is dangerous. I don't know if you guys know this, but I am a Target lover.

Love going to look around Target. so now I'm going to be leaving with 10 boxes and a candle. That's a go-to for me. I mean two candles. It is candle season. It is definitely candle season. You ain't wrong. I got candles going all day.

But if you want to simplify meal time without giving up quality, try Little Spoon. All you have to do is go to little spoon. com slash crime weekly 50 and use Crime Weekly 50 for 50% off your first order. That's Little Spoon.com slash Crime Weekly 50, code. Crime Weekly 50 for 50% off. Because parenting is hard enough. and dinner shouldn't be. Agreed.

After Raider's third brain injury, his sexual deviancy only got worse. At 18, he developed an obsession with women being tied to train tracks. He said this came from watching the Rocky and Bullwinkle show, where a character would restrain a woman on the tracks and another would rescue her just in time. Rader began fantasizing about tying popular girls from school to tracks. Sometimes he'd rescue them before the train hit them, while other times he didn't. No matter what the scenario, he loved every second. He explained to Dr. Ramsland, quote,

The tying or controlling of a person onto a track was sexually exciting, but saving the person was a thrill also. End quote. By then, bondage had become the foundation of Raiders' life, and it consumed his focus, causing him to barely make it through high school. After he managed to graduate in the spring of 1963, he tried to put the black hat away and focus on dating real women, not just women from his fantasies. He bought a car that got him some attention and he went on his first real date, which was successful, at least for him. Dating helped Raider feel better and it kept his black hat at bay, at least for the time being. That fall, he went to college and kept dating, which continued to help his bad thoughts. But he wasn't doing well in

his classes and eventually he dropped out. He moved in with a friend and worked full time at Leekers Family Food, where his mother, if you remember, was the bookkeeper. But without school to occupy his mind, the black hat started to return, and his sexual fantasies continued to grow. One night, while working at Leakers alone, Raider stole some lipstick and used it to put fake lips on his face. That way, his roommate would think he'd hooked up with someone. While applying it, he realized he liked the feeling of wearing makeup. When he returned home, his roommate believed the hookup story, but Raider was more excited by the way the lipstick made him feel than his roommate believing the lie. So he began wearing makeup whenever possible and eventually started cross-dressing as well, often buying silk products because of, you know, his grandmother's hair ribbons.

So Rader also returned to reading detective magazines filled with stories of women in peril. Almost immediately, he became addicted, spending every free minute looking at the magazines, fantasizing about what he'd do to the women. He also fantasized about binding himself, meaning he had mesochistic and sadistic tendencies. As his fantasies grew, he began fantasizing about murder, even going so far as to build what he called a hit kit. He gathered rope, potential weapons, and other tools that he believed he might use someday. He didn't have a specific victim in mind, but killing was definitely always on his mind. After turning 21, Raider attempted to go back to school, but learning still did not come easily. The Vietnam War was escalating, and he knew he would be drafted if he was not doing well in school.

So instead of waiting, he just joined the Air Force. following basic training, he was stationed in Japan. The black hat was present during this time. So Raider spent his free time studying stories of serial killers and cutting out photos of women before hiding them in, you guessed it, new Heidi holes. He's got Heidi holes all over the country now. Heidi holes here, Heidi holes there. So in 1970, Rader received an honorable discharge and returned home.

That summer, his mother introduced him at church to a woman named Paula, who she thought would be a good match. Paula was attractive, so Raider asked her out. They began dating, and in January of 1971, they got engaged. Raider worked very hard to keep the black hat at bay, at least according to him, and for a time it was working. He was feeling better about life, and so he enrolled at Butler County Community College and worked at Leakers at the same time. But then, in February of 1971, Paula, his girlfriend, his fiance, she was in a serious car accident during a snowstorm, and broke her back. On the way home from visiting her in the hospital, Raider stopped at a store and saw detective magazines. It was a trigger. And once it was flipped, the floodgates were opened. He began

buying them again, and the black hat thoughts returned with a vengeance. So what do you think this is? It was when he's engaged to Paula. He's sort of living in normal life. He's like, okay, I can do this. But then something bad happens to Paula that maybe Dennis Raider's not in control of. He can't do anything about it. And this triggers these feelings and these compulsions to return because something sort of traumatic or stressful happened. Like stress is often a trigger. Yeah, it could have been a scenario where for a while he was able to control it himself. And then once he had Paula, he felt less of a need so that he maybe lost that ability to do so and was relying more on Paula so that when she was no longer there and he had kind of lost that skill to control it himself,

by her basically indirectly pulling that rug from under him so abruptly it didn't allow him to kind of build up that tolerance and instead it caused an adverse reaction where when you have something that you're using as a security blanket and it's ripped from you you know you're in trouble you're in trouble but it also he had this itch to scratch all this time yeah and i think in the back of his mind he was looking for a reason and this happening i'm sure in his selfish mind happening to him when in reality the tragedy happened to Paula hurting her back. And I don't even know if the injury was permanent or not. You didn't mention that.

Yeah, she broke her back. So I mean, she broke her back. Was she able to walk again down the road? Was she not? I mean, down the road, but not at that moment.

So she's incapable of being with him because she's obviously going to be in bed for a while. And that was all he needed. It was all he needed. He saw the magazines, no control. He acted on it. Well,

I know in other cases of Sierra killers, they've said that things like, you know, a divorce or a relationship breakdown, losing their job can trigger it. And that really is a lot about the illusion of control because a lot of serial killers, they, especially the organized type, which Dennis Rader definitely is, they would build these elaborate like mental structures to manage their urges. So they would create routines, rituals, substitute behaviors like they're stalking, their fantasies about killing. with something else that would allow them to feel control without acting out, but that control is obviously an illusion. So a lot of the times we see people who have addictions, they stop doing their addiction, but then they'll start, like, working out a lot. They work out every day. And if they don't work out, they're not good. They're stressed out. They don't have the

ability to regulate. So you're replacing one addiction or one routine with another. And I think some of it also had to do with the fact of, like, my wife's in the hospital, I can get this detective novel, go home, tie myself up in front of the mirror, and nobody's going to, throw some lipstick on. Yeah, throw some lipstick on, open up my old Heidi holes, and nobody is going to be there asking me, like, what the hell are you doing, Dennis? What is this? You know, it was like the opportunity and then also the stress of something happening. Yeah, Paula eventually returned home to heal, but she needed a lot of time to recover. Meanwhile, Raider kept attending college, but he felt isolated. He described himself as a lone wolf there, which made him more vulnerable to his darkest thoughts. He ate alone, read true crime,

and watched women around campus. He began carrying a small version of his hit kit in his car and fantasized about kidnapping someone. So that's to me where your fantasies turned into potential action when you're physically taking this kit you've made to abduct and murder somebody, and you're placing it in your car so that if the opportunity arises, you're ready. You're now knowingly taking another step in your on your path to becoming a killer. I would also say his decision to go back to school didn't help the situation either because he had these fantasies, right? And then he essentially was a wolf, if you will, in a headhouse where he's got people around him, women who are walking, who are not expecting to have anyone

attack them, who probably have their guard down. They're at school. They shouldn't feel like they're in danger, and he's sitting there watching from afar, seeing all these different women pass him daily where he's seeing opportunities to capitalize on that situation and get the jump on them. So he basically put himself into, I don't know, if you're trying to cut down on food, that's my, that's kind of my analogy where you're like, hey, I got to stay away from sweets, but you fill your refrigerator with a bunch of cookies. Yeah, it's like being an alcoholic and getting a job as a bartender, right? There you go. Not the way to go. You may not take a drink your first shift or your second shift or your third, but a few weeks in, eventually you're going to

slip, yeah. And not only that, you, you said it here. Like, he's bringing a hit kit just in case. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So with your analogy, he's got his favorite whiskey glass with him at the bar just in case he decides to have one drink. Yeah, which is going to make it more likely that you do. Absolutely. He most likely reasoned this with himself and justified it isn't like, no, this is just part of my fantasies. You know, having it in my car makes me feel good knowing it's there as part of my fantasies, but realistically, it was so that if the opportunity arose, he'd be ready. And he even tried on two separate occasions to kidnap someone, but he was unsuccessful. He also spent time driving around and exploring old farm areas, using them to practice

self-exfixiation and bondage in secret. And honestly, if he had just suffocated himself one of these nights wandering around, driving around old farms, the world would have been done a favor. Now, despite his dark side showing itself more and more, Raider moved forward with his plans for a normal life and married Paula. They settled into a home in Park City, a suburb of Wichita. And at one point, Raider tried introducing bondage into their marriage, but Paula said no. He did not push the issue again and instead continued keeping his hidey holes filled with drawings and stories that placed women in barns, towers, and underground rooms.

So I wonder if Paula had been open to it, would it have fulfilled him? maybe temporarily, because I've seen people ask this question, like, if she'd just gone along with it and given him an outlet for that, would it have satiated his hunger for that? Yeah, probably maybe temporarily at first, but it only would have been a matter of time before he was like, ugh, doing this consensually is really not as fun. Or the fact that she's not terrified genuinely because I'm her husband and she trusts me, it's making this not really have an appeal for me. You know, somebody like this isn't going to be satisfied with your typical role playing during two, you know, two consensual adult trusting partners. It's not going to scratch that itch the way he wanted.

I also think, and he may disagree, but I go back to Rex Hurerman, again, learning about the history of these different serial killers and how they conducted themselves. From what I understand, from what we do know, he didn't really participate in that type of behavior with his wife. And my only guess would be that he didn't like to cross streams. I wish I had a better analogy, but he didn't like to, he didn't like to mix the two worlds. He had his wife who he probably had very basic boring sex with and like kept it very simple and transactional. And then his other life, his other world was with these women where he was taking control of them, killing them, doing whatever fantasy he wanted to do. And then moving on from it and going back to his real real life. So I don't even think if Paula had said, yeah, I want to do this.

He would want to do that because then maybe he would look at her similarly to how he viewed his victims. Yeah, and he would probably take it too far one of these times. Yeah, because this is a compulsion for you. So once you get in there, it's not going to be easy to pull back and behave in a socially acceptable fashion that you should be behaving with your wife in bed. Yeah, I feel like in many instances, the wives of these serial killers are like, I had no idea. I was, because they don't bring, they don't shit where they eat. If that's kind of the way I look at it. Well, Raider reimagined his space similar to H.H. Holmes's murder castle.

He now pictured a large red barn on an abandoned farmstead. He often passed on a rural road near the river outside Wichita. He imagined it as a perfect location for his double life where no one would hear anything happening inside. He believed he could harm a woman, leave the building, and appear. to the world as if he were completely ordinary. And not only do we know he was capable of that and would eventually go on to do that, but at the time when it was just a fantasy for him, having this double life, that idea really excited him. So it wasn't even just the killing and getting away with it. It was the killing and getting away with it and appearing to be

just the ordinary law-abiding citizen to everybody else. And nobody would suspect a thing. He called this imaginary barn his lair, and he pictured multiple levels and, of course, a silo. He told Dr. Catherine Ramsland, quote, I believe a modern castle could have a swimming pool. Naturally, a utility room or mudroom to clean up in. It had come with a washer and dryer, et cetera. Tidy is the key, end quote. A pool. It's like a pool.

I get it you want a shower to wash off him, but he's like imagining this entire, you know, like a pool, a hot tub, maybe a fire pit, two and a half. bathrooms. So anyways, he also said there would be a kitchen stocked with sharp knives, a vat to dissolve bodies, and a peephole so he could watch victims suffer. Yeah. The main section would have a small elevator at the center with a spiral staircase around it. He wanted a living room for regular living room stuff and a bedroom for sex and sleep. He planned for a den with games like dartboards and beams strong enough to support hanging restraints. He said there will also be a separate room for storing and displaying photos and drawings of the victims he imagined he would have. There would also be security cameras inside and out. So I'm confused as to whether he wanted

this layer to be his normal home. And that's why he wanted to have like aspects of just normal living, like, oh, a living room and a den with a dartboard and then also beam strong enough to, you know, hang victims from. Or was this just his like hideaway, his layer that he would would bring people to. And while he was watching them suffer, he would enjoy a game of darts kind of thing. What do you make of it? That's how I interpret it. Like this is his perfect world where he can not have to go into a room and hide when he's putting makeup and dresses on or whatever he's doing or bondage on. He can just be himself out in the open because it's his home. He's alone and he can both things can coexist. He can go in there and play darts while there's

a woman hanging from a piece of wood in the other room. And he doesn't have to hide any of it. It's sanctuary, his place to go, where as you described the farm that he kind of saw on the way to school or wherever he was going, where he used to think, that would be the perfect place because I could do what I'd want and nobody would hear anything. So that's how I took it, where it's, he can be unapologetically himself. And some of the things he enjoyed were normal, right? Like you said, playing darts, having some good food, whatever, hanging out in the kitchen, watch, you know, in the living room, watching TV, but also carrying out his family.

in the open space, not somewhere in the basement or in a closed room with a door lock. Not hiding away ashamed. He can truly be himself. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like I'm a man of many facets. You know, I like to torture and kill women, but I also enjoy. No need to live two separate lives.

This is my place where I can be who I am. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's weird. But all right. How about no? How about no for that? Yeah.

So he's like, he's imagining himself as Batman, like going down and putting on the costume, his man cave. having his security cameras inside and out. I wonder why he wants them inside, right? So he can have a documentation of what he's doing to these women. And then he wants a separate room where he can put up their pictures and hang the trophies of his horrible crimes and his conquests. All right. Let's take our last break and we'll be right back.

All right, fall is here. That means cooler mornings, cozy evenings, and the annual, why do I hate? everything in my closet crisis. That sounds about right. That's you every October. I know. And I'm like, I need a new cardigans, even though I have 75 in my closet. Because it's true, though.

This year, I actually came prepared thanks to Quince. They're my go-to for quality essentials that look refined, feel amazing, and don't blow your budget. So think about this, $50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters, premium denim that fits like a dream, and those wool coats, like the trench coat ones, they look like they're totally designer, but they cost a fraction of the price. living in mine lately. Actually, I wore it to work today. It's navy blue. It's soft, structured. It somehow makes me look like I have my life together, even when I definitely

don't. I'm wearing it with sweatpants today, and I somehow managed to look fashionable. I don't know how. Yeah, you've talked about their coats before, and I've definitely worn a bunch of their outfits on here. I've worn them on other TV shows. Every time you see me in one of the flannels, I got it from Quince. That's the only ones that fit me right where I feel like they actually look good. Yeah, my softest black sweater that's like a button up that I wear with everything is from Quince and it is so soft so I can wear it to bed, I can wear it out, whatever. And it's that good. And honestly, that's the thing about Quince.

They partner directly with ethical top tier factories and cut out the middlemen. So you'll get luxury quality pieces at half the price of the other brands. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that feels smart and effortless like you're investing in pieces you'll wear year after year instead of chasing trends. Yeah, and it's not just clothes, right? they have home goods, betting, and even kitchen stuff. So basically it's your one-stop shop for quality, everything. Exactly.

So if you're ready to build your fall uniform or just refresh a few essentials, you've got to check out Quince. Find your fall staples at Quince. Go to quince.com slash crime weekly for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash crime weekly. Crime Weekly is all one word to get free shipping and 300. 265-day returns. Quince.com slash crime weekly. We're back. So Dennis Rader became so preoccupied with his fantasies that he needed new

hidey holes all the time. So he used the attic, the shed, and the crawl space under the house. At one point, he even built hidden drawers beneath the hallway storage area to help hide his growing collection. So he's not switching up hidey holes. He's just collecting them. more. Yeah. So somehow, despite the constant intrusive fantasies, Raider still managed to finish school in 1972 with an associate degree in electronics, and in early 73, he started working his dream job at Cessna Aircraft Company. At this point, the bad thoughts seemed to be tucked away, and he and Paula had what appeared to be a great marriage. They volunteered together as youth sponsors at church, and they began talking about having children. Raider said these were good days

for him. It seemed like maybe he could have a normal life, at least if he kept all his bad thoughts shoved deep down inside. But in October of 1973, just nine months after starting at Cessna, Rader was laid off along with many others. He felt like his world had come crashing down, and at this point, he gave fully into his dark side. He didn't try to hide it any longer. On the same evening of his termination, Paula went to sing with her musical group while Rader stayed home feeling depressed and angry. He decided to go out and do something bad, so he picked a neighborhood he knew well, one that he, quote, felt comfortable to prowl and stalk, end quote. Raider drove to the area, deciding to break into a home once he got there. He parked on a side street before choosing

a corner house that looked empty. After checking the perimeter, he broken through a window and unlocked the door. Inside, he walked around gathering small items, a hatchet, tools, drill bits, and pens, and he put them in a pillowcase. When he was done, he left the house with the stolen items, returning home with a new sense of control over other people's homes and what people believed was safe. This feeling, of course, only led him further and further into the darkness. Rader tried to stop it by enrolling at Wichita State University, but his classes wouldn't start until mid-January. So without a job or classes to distract him, he had long stretches of time to think and those thoughts led him to try kidnapping for a third time. But his plan didn't work

out and he was unsuccessful yet again. After that failed attempt, he decided he would kidnap a victim inside a house so no one would see and then move the person to his favorite abandoned barn where he could kill them by hanging. Raiders started searching for a victim. One day in December 1973, after driving Paula to work during a snowstorm, he saw a woman in her mid-30s backing out a driveway with two young children in the car. She stood out to him because she was Hispanic and he loved her dark hair and dark eyes. He also noticed that her house number ended in three, which was a number he really liked. He quickly decided she would be his first target labeling the plan, Project Little Mecks. Now this is something that Raider does. When he's

picking victims, he'll stalk them, he'll watch them, he'll make notes about them, and he will give them nicknames, right? So he's not writing their actual name in there. He'll give them little nicknames that only he knows what it means. And you said Project Little Mex, right? Not Max. Max. Yeah. M-E-X. All right. I just want to make sure that, and everyone can kind of deduce why that name, but it's not Max. It's Mex. Project Little Mex. Yes. Yes. I think we can all deduce what he meant by that name. So over the next few weeks, Raider stalked the home by driving and walking past it repeatedly. He learned that the woman was married with five children. The three older children went to school before 8 a.m. with her husband leaving for work

around the same time. By 8.20, only the mother and her two younger children, a boy and a girl, were at home. That pattern told him when he could act. He told himself he would arrive at 8.20. He would use a ruse to gain entry, quickly overpower the young son, and then do whatever he wanted to the female victims. Not victim. Victims, which means this woman and her young daughter. So with this plan in place, Raider assembled a hit kit that included rough hemp rope, a knife, and a 22 L.R. Woodsman auto target pistol. Long rifle. Long rifle, Woodsman auto pistol. Yep. So on the morning of January 15th, 1974, Raider felt ready to act. It was cold. So he cleared the frost from Paula's car and waited until she left for work. Then he put on his Air Force parka and drove to the victim's neighborhood, telling himself that it, If they weren't home, he would pick another target. He later told Dr. Ramsland that during the drive, he felt an adrenaline rush.

He said, quote, my heart beat fast. This had been more of a game, daring myself, and pushing the limit. The fantasy had begun to crystallize sharply, end quote. And real quick, the long rifle caliber weapon could be a long rifle weapon or a pistol. It's just a description of the type of ammunition used. So he arrived at the house at roughly age 20 as planned. He jumped the fence and cut the phone line. But then he saw paw prints in the snow, which put a kink in his plan, right?

Because he hadn't realized the family had a dog. He nearly walked away because of that unexpected detail, something he didn't plan for, which means it's something he can't control. But then the door opened and Rader realized it was now or never. He made his way inside the home and unleashed decades of pent-up deviancy on this poor, innocent family. And we are going to talk about that. And we're going to talk about everything that happened after, but that's going to have to wait till part two. Yeah.

It's a horrific story, too. This is a family that we have seen before, talked about what happened to them inside that home. I believe you said there was a son there as well. Yep. There would be a son and a daughter and then the mother. Yes. Yes. And there are some accounts of what happened in that home.

It's tragic. My big takeaway from it is it starts to make sense now. who we're dealing with all the years of holding it back and not acting on what he was feeling, but also at the same time dabbling in it, talking about it, fantasizing about it, and starting off in 1973 with the breaking and entering. And I can only imagine the adrenaline dump that he had there, that shot of dopamine where he felt alive. And he imagined to himself, wow, how good did that feel just taking a few items that I didn't own?

Imagine if I actually did what I wanted to do. And once he did that, the floodgates were open. There was going to be no stopping him. Yeah, we kind of talked about Brian Coburger. Like, this was his first run. For sure. And had he gotten away with it, it would have emboldened him, going into that house and stealing things, taking something from the house, being there when the occupants

didn't know it, invading their privacy and what they felt was their safety, their sense of safety, that emboldened him to take it to the next step. And remember, Dennis Raider's been. watching this woman to get her routine down, right? The husband leaves at this time. She brings the kids, the older kids are off at school at this time. So if I get there at this time, 820, I should only have to contend with the mother, a young daughter, and a young son. But because he wasn't stalking the house that particular day, because he knew to show up at 820, he didn't realize that there were more family members home than he expected there to be.

That's right. and his success in walking into that home, thinking he had all the information, which would give him the ultimate power and control, and knowing he didn't, right, there's a dog. And not only that, the husband is actually home. And I'm still able to control all of them and make them do my bidding and get what I want from them. Yep, I can adapt on the fly. Yeah. So this gives him now such a sense of confidence and competency, right? Yeah. I can do it. anything. Yeah, I think what you said there too is important. It is about the act itself, taking control of a person and seeing them in a compromising position where they have

no say over what happens to them next and you are essentially playing God. But there's also that element of being methodical, being strategic and not only doing it, but getting away with it, outsmarting everyone whose job is solely to catch you. And like with Koeberger, he thought he had planned out everything fortunately for us he didn't but with raider he was good for a while obviously science and technology wasn't what it is now back then but he did plan out every step to the point where i also thought it was interesting what you said there were just the paw prints being a variable that he didn't anticipate almost causing him to leave not because i think he was scared of the dog but because he wanted to have every single detail planned out not only because he was a controlling

person, but he wanted to get away with this. He wanted to be able to do it again. And there is a gratification in that after the fact, seeing the damage that you've caused and knowing that the people who are responsible for catching you have no clue who you are. Yeah. I also think that there was probably something he was telling himself like, oh, I'm just stalking them now. I'm just like, I'm not going to actually go through with it. I get there and I see the, and he told himself, like, oh, if no one's home or something's off, I won't go through with it. And then he got there and he saw the dog pauper and he's like, oh, I'm not going to go through with it. It was like he kept giving himself these little outs almost as a way to say, you know, just just going one step

further in my process is enough for me. But ultimately, it wasn't enough for him. So he was put, he was under delusion himself that he could control it and he could be, you know, very systematic about it. Whereas, oh, there's a red flag here. I might back out. No, you won't. And then once he committed the crime, got away with it, even though there was unanticipated factors, and he never got caught. Nobody ever knew it was him. This now makes him feel I can do anything. And he's the one who's taunting the police, too. And some people said, oh, me, he wanted to get caught. He wanted to get caught. I don't know if killers who taunt the police actually want to get caught or if it's this ego thing. Like, I'm smarter. It's a battle. I think it's a battle on the inside. There's a part of them where

they want acknowledgement for how good they are at what they're doing and how smart they are. Like they almost want people to know, hey, it's me. I'm that good. I'm the one who's avoiding apprehension. But once they get too close to the sun, they can get burned. And I don't want to foreshadow anything. But a lot of people know where this case is going to eventually go and why we're talking about it.

You opened it up with the trailer. But yeah, I mean, a lot of people on here have probably heard of this case before and heard of Dennis Raider. All I would ask is that, you don't spoil it for everybody else. Some people might be following along with the story. Interact, comment, talk about the case and where we are in the story now and allow us to go through it. And we have a lot more to cover and we're going to get into details that maybe you haven't heard of before, even if you're familiar with the case. So that's my final words on it. I do want to go back to the over under on the Heidi hole. Oh, we definitely. Over 20. I don't know. Definitely over 10.

Definitely over 10. Yeah, that was. Way in down in the comments. Let us know. But fascinating case, I'm glad we're covering it. Heidi ho. I'm interested in learning about more of it because I want to know what patterns of behavior I can add to my toolbox and apply to the different cases that we cover.

Yeah. And what you said, I was just thinking about what you said about wanting kind of recognition and validation for being this good at this thing, which is weird, right? Because, but I've seen this happen in smaller instances, like not so serious. instances, but about 10 years ago, I had a friend who loved to shoplift. And she'd be so happy when she would shoplift. Was this woman's name begin with an ass? No. Just kidding. Just kidding. No. But she would have, like just the idea that we'd go into like a gas station and she'd take something. And that wasn't enough to know she'd gotten away with that when we got in the car.

And then we drove a little bit. She's like, look what I got. Look what I got. Like she wanted me to know how good she was. at taking it and not getting caught and how she would do that all the time and she would never get caught. And I was like, ew, could you not do that when I'm with you, man? Like, and she couldn't stop. And she's like, yeah, I won't do it when I'm with you. But then she would again.

And then she'd proudly show it to me. And eventually pretty soon after that started happening, I was like, I can't hang out with you anymore. Like, this is weird. And I ended the friendship. But she knew I didn't like it. She knew it was distasteful to me. and she still had to like show me and be proud of her accomplishment because she felt she was doing

something that like made her intelligent or really you know covert or good at this thing and I and I she had to tell somebody she got away with it so it's probably like that in the same way with Dennis Raider it's like yes killing isn't socially acceptable but he's like do you know how good at it I am do you know how good at it that I am like in stalking these people figuring out what they're doing where they're going to be going in, controlling multiple people at once, and then cleaning the scene so thoroughly that there's been no trace of me or what I did left behind. Do you know how good I am? And I think that Brian Koberger, if he had been born in a different time before DNA and technology caught up to these killers, he would have flourished and been more successful in that time like BTK because he was

systematic in that way. He made mistakes, but he made mistakes that technology caught him in. I completely agree with you. You think about Brian Kohlberger, yeah, he did leave behind a knife sheath, but ultimately was the DNA recovered from that sheath and other areas that allowed us to identify his father and then identify him. So 100% agree. And that's why the Dennis Raiders of the world, as we started off this episode saying, are going to become less and less frequent, which is a good thing. I think they're still going to be there, but that's the concerning thing.

They're still going to exist. I also think people are becoming more aware of their surroundings. Like the world is just a dangerous place now. And you talk about how he kind of cased the house before going there. I don't know all the specifics. I don't know if there were opportunities to see something. But now every house has surveillance cameras. Motion activated.

Yeah. Yeah. And if you see the same, I think now we live in a world where people see the same person walking by the house, even if they're not doing anything wrong. They're like, hey, who are you, buddy? So I think there's, it's just people are aware. of these types of cases and a lot of people listen or watch true crime because of this to be more prepared to protect themselves or the people they care about. And having that technology at your

disposal, even as a civilian, allows you to better protect the people in your household. You can't step on a property without your ring doorbell going off saying, hey, someone's on your front lawn. So imagine if they had a ring doorbell camera or a, you know, a spotlight on the back of the house where he jumps the fence, they're going to immediately know someone's outside. Yeah. And I was thinking the same thing when I read that part where he was like, well, he would drive past their house or walk past their house several times a week. And I was like, nowadays, like, if that's me and I see the same car or the same person, and I'm like, I don't know you, you don't live in this neighborhood. You're suspicious to me now. I'm taking pictures. I'm posting him on the Facebook like community

page. Like who's seen this guy? Who is this guy? 100%. Yeah. People are just far more aware that there's just weird, deviant people out there wandering around. Yeah. And also another area that's kind of a slippery slope, but something that I always believed in when I was a patrol sergeant is proactive policing. Having officers in particular quadrants of our city, I would always like to assign the same officer to the same quadrant for multiple days or multiple weeks. They didn't necessarily love that because it got a little boring and redundant, but they became so familiar with that quadrant. They knew not only the areas, not only the people when they were going and coming to work, who was from that area who wasn't and this is where it does get a little slippery but if they see someone who's not

from that area who's walking around maybe looking into cars looking into yards i would i would promote stopping them having a conversation not detaining them getting their name if they can getting out hey how are you are you lost anything i can help you with you know are you from this area you know did you just move here i'm officer derrick just wanted to meet you and say hello and welcome to the neighborhood and you just make note of that and now if multiple officers are making that same no even if it's not something that stops it, it could be something that you use later to go back and identify people who were casing that area.

But there's also a world whereby stopping that person, let's say it was Dennis Raider and he had been stopped by a police officer the day before in that area may have given him pause to go and carry out this act now because he's been on a radar somewhere, maybe. And so that's a whole different can of worms that some people may say, well, we shouldn't be stopping anybody unless there's probable cause a reasonable suspicion. I'm not going to say I'd necessarily disagree with you, but there are pros and cons to taking the initiative and being proactive. So, yeah, fascinating case, so much to learn from

it. Does a police officer have the right if they see somebody in a neighborhood that they're so familiar with that they know that person doesn't live there and they've seen this person there a few times? They want to know what they're doing there. Do they have the right to pull, like just pull over and talk to them, be like, hey, can I see your ID? Can the person, they don't? Can they ask? So it's a great question. And I think a lot of people, this is a, this is a tough conversation to have. No, they don't. You have to have a reasonable suspicion, which is the belief that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or will be committed. And you have to support that reasonable suspicion with articulable facts and circumstances. For example, I've seen an individual in my quadrant that I've never seen before. And as I was watching them from a distance before they saw me, they were hand-checking car doors, looking into car windows. going through different areas. And when they saw me, they proceeded to evade eye contact with me, look in an opposite direction, and fled into an alleyway or something, something to suggest they may be committing a braking and entering into a vehicle. Or planning one, yeah.

That's how you articulate that. And at that point, you can get out, detain them, and attempt to identify them. But even then, it's tough. But if you have reasonable suspicion, you can identify them. However, what I would say, and is still applicable to this day, You get out of your car, even if you don't have reasonable suspicion, you approach someone. Now, they have a freedom to walk away. When you get out and say, hey, how you doing? They could say, go F yourself and keep walking. And there's nothing as an officer that you can do about that.

However, you have the right as an officer to be there and to walk that sidewalk and to drive that area. You can't harass them, but you have the right to be in that area. Patrol your division, patrol your streets. So, yes, they have the ability to walk away and tell you to pound sand, but, I will say in my experience in most cases, if you approach the situation in a friendly manner, you may not even have to identify them. If you get out and say, hey, how are you? They may say, hey, I'm good. And sorry, I'm from the area. I live over here. And I'm just doing my new walks and I'm not completely acclimated to where I'm at. And you may go, okay, no problem. Have a good day.

Now, if you continue to see them over the next couple months, you become familiar with them. And maybe at some point you exchange first names. Maybe you don't. But you can build that relationship over time where if it's four o'clock in the morning and you see a random person on a that may cause you a little bit more where you're like, okay, I'm only seeing this person three or four in the morning. They're always wearing a backpack. They're not in school. They're 30 something years old. And after seeing them within a reasonable amount of time, I always get a report of a breaking and entering in a house or a car. Now that's reasonable suspicion to potentially stop them the next time. And you could take a picture of them too, technically. It's a public place. They don't have the right

to privacy at that point. And we have body. cams. Right. And we have body cams on and those are recording at all time. So I don't think most people who listen to our channel would have a problem with you as an officer who's getting paid by the taxpayers to go out there and do your job and not be reactive where you're only responding to calls after the crime occurs. However, some officers do take it too far. Whereas you just said, they'll go up to someone with no reasonable suspicion. Hey, give me your ID. I'm not going to do that. Well, then I'm going to arrest you. Most states you can't do that. Most states you can't do that. But some guys will go too far with it and they burn that ability for everybody else.

So again, it's a totality of things. Security surveillance on your own house, alarm systems, proactive police work, just being aware of your surroundings, all of that over time can create a safer environment for everybody from that community. No, absolutely. I mean, got a little bit off the path there. I feel like even if you're in the community and you see somebody walking around, take a picture of them, just in case. 100%.

Now, it doesn't have to be a police. officer can also be just a neighbor who wants everyone to be safe. There's actually apps out there now where if you're part of a neighborhood, you can be invited by the other neighbors and you all can kind of talk and communicate with each other if you see something out of the ordinary. So science and technology, it's becoming our best weapon to fight crime. Absolutely. All right, cool. Well, we will continue this conversation next week. And until then, what should they do? They should stay safe out there. They should stay safe out there. We'll see you guys next week.

See you next week. Bye.