Crime Weekly - Sonia Exelby | a Shallow Grave, a Secret Package & a Fatal Mistake (Part 2)

Episode Date: August 28, 2026

Consider supporting and donating to The Kaylee Goncalves Foundation/Murder Has a Name here: https://www.murderhasaname.com/ There are some people who disappear all at once - One day, they're there, and the next day, they're gone. But sometimes, a person disappears slowly. So slowly that the people who love them don't realize what's happening until they look back and understand that they had been losing them for years. 32-year-old Sonia Exelby was the youngest of six children, and for much of Sonia's life, there were people who loved her very much. But somewhere along the way, Sonia began slipping away from them.  At first, it looked like depression. Then isolation. She stopped going out, stopped answering invitations. Stopped letting people in. Until eventually, much of Sonia's world existed through a screen. Online, she could be whoever she wanted to be. She could talk to strangers about the things she was afraid to tell the people who loved her - but listening and helping are not always the same thing... Try our coffee! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: https://www.OneSkin.co/CrimeWeekly - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY to get 15% off! https://www.MintMobile.com/CrimeWeekly - Cut your wireless bill to just $15 a month! https://www.Revolve.com/CrimeWeekly - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY for 15% off! https://www.Talkiatry.com/CrimeWeekly - Get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in minutes! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Labasser. So we are going into part two of the Sonia Exelby case. And in part one, we told you about 32-year-old Sonia Exelby, a gentle, deeply vulnerable woman from England who had spent years struggling with her mental health before retreating further and further into the online world. And somewhere inside some of the darkest corners of the internet, Sonia met a Florida man. named Dwayne Hall, a man who Sonia eventually trusted enough to travel more than 4,000 miles to meet. On October 10, 2025, Sonia secretly boarded a plane from London to Gainesville, Florida, where Dwayne Hall was waiting for her at the airport. She had rented an Airbnb in the small town of Reddick, and according to Hall, Sonia had come to Florida because she wanted him to fulfill a fantasy the two had been discussing for a very long time. She wanted him to end her life. But as we saw at the end of part one, what Sonia wanted when she arrived in Florida and what Sonia wanted after spending some time alone with Dwayne Hall may have been two very different things.

And as we saw from part one, Dwayne Hall was really doubling down on the fact that is like, yeah, that's what she may have wanted. But like, I would never do that. I would never do that. So the fact that you can't find this woman, it has nothing to do with me. The last time I saw her, she was getting into an El Dorado with Harold, a blacked-out El Dorado. And so whatever those Scientology guys did, I couldn't tell you because I couldn't do what she wanted me to do. I'm just way too nice of a guy, too good of a person. That was interesting.

And you guys gave us your feedback on YouTube at least where you really liked our reactions to it. So we're going to do more of that. And there was also a lot of comments regarding her booking a return flight and how it basically may have just been. a formality because she was from another country. So we... So meaning like when you have any time you go to another country. So even if you're going to the Bahamas or something, you have to fill out a form before you get there

that you have to give to immigration. And they're going to ask you are... How long their stay is going to be? Are you here for work? Are you here for business? Are you here for travel? Like just pleasure. And then you have to tell them where you're staying while you're in their country,

how long you're going to be there. And then usually show, like the people in the comments are saying, evidence that you have a return flight booked because they don't, every country has immigration, right? So they don't want you to just show up in their country and stay there forever. Which makes a lot of sense. And obviously we're going to go through this whole case and you're going to tell us more about the story. And so my opinion may change. But after part one, that whole return flight thing does make sense. It does seem as if Sonia really wanted to do this and she had tried multiple.

multiple times, sometimes that was interrupted, but she was going to do this. And, you know, we had, we had entertained the idea that she had booked the return flight in case she wanted to back out. But in reality, if you're, if you're taking these steps, if you're flying across the ocean, more than likely at that point, you already are committed. You're pretty much in it. And so that, that is, that is the direction I'm leaning right now, unless you point out some other evidence that may suggest she had a change of heart, you know, and you had said, In part one, I believe we talked about it a little bit where even if that's all true, even if she wanted this, you can't actually perform that duty for them. So Dwayne, even if he comes out during this story and says, yeah, no, she made me do it.

It's still against the law. She made me do it. Right. So. Right. Yeah. So now that we know that Sonia Axelby did in fact make it to Florida and that Dwayne Hall was in fact the man who picked her up from the Gainesville Airport, I want to go back. and reconstruct this weekend as closely as we can because investigators were eventually able to track

a surprising amount of Dwayne Hall's movements through receipts, surveillance, cameras, financial transactions, and his cell phone. And I want to talk to you about it, Derek, because there's stuff that he's doing during this weekend that I'm not, I don't know what the motive is. And I also don't know where was Sonia when this was happening, right? So let's start from the beginning. A lot of places. That's the unfortunate thing about this case. Yeah, but. A lot of places. Yeah.

It's just I need to know more. And I have the full police report and the probable cause affidavit and things like that. But obviously, because it appears that this case is going to go to trial this coming November, which I'm very excited about. We're going to find out a lot more. And I wonder if our questions will be answered. I have to feel like they will because we'll start from the beginning on Friday, October 10th, while Sonia was still in the plane, in the air, Dwayne Hall began preparing for her arrival, right? We know he was at Walmart in Gainesville at 547 p.m. where he purchased paracord, gun cleaner, 50 feet of rope, and deodorant spray.

It was Loom brand deodorant spray in case anybody wanted to know. Then seven minutes later at 5.54 p.m., he made a second purchase at that same Walmart, and this is when he bought that shovel. Now, that shovel would later be recovered from Dwayne Hall's home garage. And the gun cleaner was found as well. And Dwayne would claim that he'd used the gun cleaner that weekend at the Retic Airbnb to clean a gun in his car. He said the gun belonged to his wife, Ginger, but it was his favorite gun. And although he hadn't used it in 18 months, so he's saying it hasn't been shot in 18 months, he still wanted to clean it that specific weekend because he said it was getting some rust on it. does. And not only cleaning a gun, I mean, the cleaning the gun months later, that's fine, but cleaning it in your truck. Yeah. That's a specific weekend. That specific weekend. Just a damn, you know, coincidence. I feel bad for Dwayne. He's just always wrong place, wrong time, doing things that make him look guilty. And here's my question, because I don't know. You know more about guns than I do, obviously, because you worked in law enforcement. Yeah, and I have,

I have a lot of guns. You guys, you guys by this point know that. I mean, I'm someone who has a bunch of guns. If you have a gun and you haven't used it in over a year, 18 months, is it possible that you just kind of look at it and you're like, oh, this gun is getting kind of rusty? Like, do guns get rusty? It can. Yeah, you want to keep them lubricated. You want to keep them oiled. They can have, they can start to develop some rust. They do have coatings on them.

I know this is kind of a deep conversation. That's what I thought that there was some coating on it to prevent that. The higher end guns, it has a paint called saracote. And they can be sarah coated. But older guns don't have that coating. And so, or that paint. So they can rust. They can corrode over time.

And so you do want to keep them oiled in a secured spot where they're protected from the elements. So it's absolutely true what he's saying. What I can tell you is that unless you're at the range and you want to clean your gun before using it, you're not cleaning it in the front of your car because it's very inconvenient. Anybody who's cleaned a gun before, you got the oil, you got the toothpicks and the different like brushes and, when you actually wipe your gun down and you're cleaning it, the spray from the toothbrush that you're cleaning can get all over you. So you like to have like a nice big table where you can lay everything out and do it.

Unless it's like an emergency situation, you're more than likely not doing it in your truck. Right. And if for no reason, just like, oh, I noticed this gun was getting a little rusty. So I thought I'd grab some gun cleaner.

It would be difficult. Like, I have a big truck, but like to lay it out an area where I would clean my gun, I could do it, but it wouldn't be fun. And you need other tools like you said. toothbrushes, toothpicks.

Yeah, it's like a dental pick. I said toothpicks. It's more like dental picks or like to get in the little nooks and crannies, the crevices of all the gun. And then like you have what appears to be like a bristled toothbrush, like something that has like a, it's a little firmer. But I'll do a gun cleaning tutorial one day for you guys. So given the timing of this random gun cleaning, it's more likely, more likely that either

he was cleaning the gun because it had been recently used. Right. Or it had been touched by someone that he didn't want the gun to be traced back to. Yeah. When you shoot a gun, you're going to have a lot of carbon buildup in there and one way to clean that out. Because that carbon can get hard over time. But if you want to remove any evidence that the gun was recently fired, that would be the way to do it. Would you be able to remove evidence that the gun had been recently fired by cleaning it?

You would be able to remove most of it, but you're not going to get the microscopic amounts. I am by no means a ballistics expert, but I would imagine, unless you got every single molecule of that carbon, this got to be a way where you could swipe that gun. You could kind of go through it and then analyze how new the carbon is. Maybe I'm wrong on that. Any ballistics people in the comments let me know. But I would assume that there's a way to tell how long the carbon buildup has been there. And I would imagine that it would be damn near impossible without a microsexious.

to get rid of every single piece of carbon that could identify that it had been shot recently. More importantly, you're going to have carbon and gunpowder on the outside of a gun. So unless you cleaned every little crevice, you're probably going to have some remnants of that still left behind. And I'm asking about this because there's objects that he purchased from Walmart, like the gun cleaner, like the paracord, like the rope, that really don't turn back up again in an obvious way of like, oh, we, understand what he used these things for. Now, the shovel, we understand what he used it for, right? Well, I mean, did we, you haven't told us yet, and I didn't look it up. So we're not going to, yeah, I'm going to tell you what the shovel was used for, but I'm telling you, we know. Because I don't even know Sonia was found yet. Yeah, it's pretty, pretty obvious.

My assumption was that the shovel was used to obviously dig up a spot and drop her in. And the paracord would be something used to tie her up and move her around a little easier. Possibly, but She's a little girl. He's a pretty, you know, strong guy. So was the paracord and the rope used after her, after she's dead? Or was it used beforehand as in this person was a prisoner and unable to leave? And that's kind of the question I have. It could also be some type of kink as well, right, where that was part of the whole role playing was to use the paracord in a way where she felt like she was incapable of leaving. That is also an option based on what we know about her. They asked him about that because, you know, eventually he admits like, yeah, yeah, we had sex. And they're like, well, you got paracord, you got rope. Were you using this for bondage? And he's like, oh, no, no, of course not.

Of course not. He just said in that interview last episode that he's into that. He is. He did say that, right? He said he's into BDSM. He's into some light bondage. Okay, so now you're looking at the rope and the paracord and the gun cleaner. And when these things don't have a clear sort of connection to anything that we know so far,

whereas the shovel does, we have questions. we have questions and hopefully while we're looking at the events of this weekend, maybe we can put some of that together with your expertise. I would also say like the paracord, right? Not everything. He was clearly planning for something and that's the disposal of her body after the fact. There's a lot of situations where you have things that are purchased like a paracord, where he's considering the possibility of using it and for whatever reason he doesn't

because the logistics just didn't work out or he found something different. So I don't know what we're going to find out in this case where certain evidence may not be revealed to have us develop a better understanding. But the paracord could have been for multiple uses. Paracord is known for multiple uses, not bondage or the disposal of a dead body. But I don't know really what paracord is. Is it like kind of a bungee rope? It's a high tensile strength rope. It's used by the military a lot of times, hence paracord.

It can be used to create firebows like when you're camping. It's a survival cord. It has a lot of uses. To be honest with you, the survival experts out there can give you a list of probably 100 or 200 different usages for paracord. It's very versatile. And a lot of the times when you see like military or law enforcement people and they have like those thick bands that they're wearing, it's actually paracord that's been tied up to

be a bracelet, but can be unraveled and used for emergency situations. It's really cool, actually. So it doesn't have like a bungee or stretchy aspect to. it. It's pretty strong. Not really. Not really. It doesn't have a stretchy aspect to it. It's parachute cord, hence paracord. So you want it to be pretty strong. Yeah, it's not, it is not, it's not stretchy at all. Okay. I would describe it for anybody who hasn't dealt with it like a really strong shoelace type consistency. Really woven. Yeah. Yeah. You ain't stretching it. That's for damn sure. And he's asked, like, well, what did you use the pair? Would you buy the

parochord for? Would you buy the rope for? And he said, oh, because I had like different projects I had to do. and I don't believe that they ever recovered that paracord or the rope where they did recover the shovels. So that's interesting. But at approximately 6.30 p.m., we know Sonia got into Dwayne's black Jeep at the Gainesville Regional Airport. They drove away. Dwayne then drove Sonia 27 miles to the Airbnb that she had rented in Redick, Florida. Now, I looked into it. That drive would have taken roughly 40 minutes, especially around that 630 time when you got a lot of people on the road.

As far as Dwayne's wife or girlfriend or whatever the hell she is or was, as far as Ginger Stein knew, Dwayne was on a work trip that weekend. And from this moment on, Sonia Axelby's movements become very difficult to track. But Dwayne Halls didn't necessarily become difficult to track because the following morning, which was Saturday, October 11th at approximately 9.20 a.m., surveillance video showed Hall going through the drive-th through of a Dunkin' Donuts in Gaines. where he paid for an iced coffee with cash. And investigators later found this discarded Dunkin' Donuts cup inside the Redick Airbnb. So with this, questions do arise, right? Gainesville is over 20 miles away from Reddick. There's no Dunkin' Donuts in Redick.

I looked it up. It's a very, very small, like, very isolated kind of rural town. So there's no Dunkin' Donuts in Reddick, but there is a Dunkin' Donuts in Okala. that would have been a way closer Dunkin' Donuts to Redick, and that's also where Dwayne Hall lived. It was half the distance from the Dunkin' Donuts in Gainesville that he chose to go to. So another question I have is, was Sonia with Dway when he purchased the coffee? Did he have a specific reason to go to Gainesville that morning?

If he just wanted an iced coffee, it would have taken him half the time to drive to Ocala and get one. And if he's got Sonia at the Airbnb and she's not with him, could she have just left? Was she tied up? And that's why she couldn't leave? What's going on here? You know, why did he drive so far to Gainesville to get an iced coffee when he could have taken half the time to go to Ocala if he really needed an iced coffee from Dunkin' Donuts?

So what was the trip to Gainesville that morning for? And where was Sonia at that time? Well, I'm interested to hear, I don't know if it's today or in the next part, if Sonia was found and if she was found, where was she found because maybe he was scouting locations for a possible body disposal? Well, based on what I know, that's not the case. Okay, you know a lot more than me, but I can't explain that. On the surface, it doesn't make sense.

You just explained why it doesn't make sense. Obviously, there's more to that story than I currently know. Maybe you do, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense to do that unless there was something along that trip that you needed to pick up or you wanted to see. That's the only thing I can deduce from that. Something in Gainesville, right. Something in Gainesville that you wanted to check out, yeah. So then at 1154 a.m., Dwayne Hall is back in Reddick, and he made a purchase at the Dollar General in Reddick.

So this Dollar General was located about 3.4 miles from the Airbnb. And they never released the address of the Airbnb. It took me a long time to find it. I'm going to be honest with you. Because the Airbnb itself was not an actual like. house. It was one of those like, I don't know, like, what do they call them? Kind of modular homes. Like a trailer home? Like a trailer park home? Yeah, sort of. Like a mobile home. Yeah, a mobile home, I guess. I don't know if I would call it that. It was kind of like one of the,

but anyways, a company sells them. A specific company sells them. And so I tried Google reverse imaging the picture that they put in the police file. And it pulls up every single one that this company's ever sold. And it goes to the company's website. So that was difficult to find. So then I had to go through all the pictures and actually locate because this specific, like, modular home thing in Reddick had a porch built on it. But a lot of them have a porch built on. Yeah. Yeah.

So I almost wonder if that porch is kind of like an extra thing you can pay for because a lot of them had the exact same porch. So then I had to compare like the, it kind of has like a weeping willow tree in the background. and then there's like a utilities box specifically located in a certain place and a light post. So I had to compare all of those things. And I found the address. So I was able to get the exact driving times between where Dwayne Hall was going and where the Airbnb was located. So that Dollar General about 3.4 miles from the Airbnb. Then at 12.6 p.m.

Dwayne Hall was at a Petro Station. So that was three and a half miles away from the Dollar General and seven miles away from the Airbnb. And this is where he purchased some food items, including a sandwich and strawberries, and then the packages and wrapping from those food items were later recovered from the trash at the Airbnb. So once again, at both the Dollar General and the Petro Station, we don't know if Sonia Exelby was with Dwayne Hall. We know that the items that Dwayne Hall purchased while out and about that day, specifically the trash from the food and the Dunkin' Donuts Cup, ended up back at the Redick Airbnb, so we know he went back there. And he didn't seem to be careful about leaving those things with his DNA there, which is weird to me, because he knew the

Airbnb was purchased under her name. You know, there's so many things that really don't make sense about what he did that day. But the reason that I'm talking about was Sonia with him. We'll figure out what that reason is later, because there's a big thing that comes up, where he is seen on surveillance with somebody this weekend or he's seen and somebody is in his vehicle this weekend. So that's an interesting thing. Now, we also know that on the evening of Saturday, October 11th, Dwayne Hall called his wife Ginger from the Airbnb. He used a cell phone to call his wife and tell her that he loved her and good night. Yeah. So where was Sonia when that call was happening, you know? Yeah. Where's Sonia and all of this? Is she tied up? Is her mouth? being taped shut where she can't yell for help.

Is she unconscious? Is she unconscious? Is she already dead at that point? Well, we know she wasn't dead at least at some point on Saturday because that's when he takes the video of her, right? Right. Yes. So, yeah, so she wouldn't be dead at that point.

As far as the driving around, it's unfortunate. We don't have any cameras to get a better insight into whether he was alone or not. So they say when they see him on surveillance, it's unclear as to whether someone's with him. Yeah, someone can still be in the truck. Yeah. It's possible that knowing what was about to occur, maybe this was the last like trip around and maybe they were just honestly sightseeing. It could be as simple as that where it was just like, hey, one last pass through Florida to get a lay of the land because she knew that her life was coming to an end. Or it could be much more sinister where like you've alluded to that she's tied up back at the house and he's out running errands.

Because listen to this, he buys one coffee, not two. That's right. That's right. He buys one sandwich, not two. Not too, yeah. It's almost like he's not feeding her, right? Or like giving her even food or what he might consider to be a last meal. Yeah.

It's so hard because of the circumstances in the foundation of this case because we know definitively like this person, Sonia had some ideations of dying in this way, being kidnapped and being essentially to a certain degree kind of tortured. Tortured, assaulted, hurt, yeah. This is by no means taking any culpability. away from of Dwayne at all. I'm trying to truly understand what the circumstances were. At the core, we know where this is going, but this could all have been part of the role playing. It doesn't make it okay.

But that's, you know, we're trying to find out the details of what happened. And with the video that we have on Saturday, by the way, I know you're going to look into us. Thank you to everybody who commented and said there are pieces of this video that are out there. We're aware of it. Stephanie's looking at it right now. We're unsure of whether or not we're going to show it. But yeah, Derek just sent me the link.

I'm going to review it because next, the next part of this, the third and final part, we're going to go deeper into like what was Sonia's state of mind at the time. Yeah. And so I want to review the video. He sent me the link and I haven't been able to bring myself to click on it yet, to be honest with you. Shout out to Megan, one of our listeners. She sent me all the timestamps and everything. I was like, oh, this is awesome.

Derek was like, well, they said it's not anything bad, but still like, I feel like, I don't know. That's a slippery slope. So we'll let you guys know. but we are aware of it. And in that video, it does seem like on one hand, it looks like she's being held against her will. But then you also have to ask the question, is that all part of this? Is that what they're, that's what they're intending to do? So it does make it difficult to kind of differentiate from what's reality and what's part of the whole thing they're playing up here.

You know, this was obviously very planned out beforehand. She flew all the way from the UK to come over here for this. Yeah. And the question is, as far as I know from the police report, at least, there's no time stamp on that video, at least that we've been given, right? So we know it was taken on October 11th, that's Saturday, but we don't know what time. So by the time we see Dwayne going to Dunkin Donuts in the dollar store and this, this and that, was Sonia already dead? The timestamp of that video would help us understand that. Because if it was taken at like 4 p.m., then Sonia wasn't dead. But was she unconscious? Was she tied up? Was she? Was she? unable to leave or move. And we know at some point on Saturday, Sonia also had access to her phone where she was able to send messages out. We're going to talk about that. So how was she on that Saturday? Was she there at the B&B while Duane was out and about and she could have walked out and left? Was it not that bad yet? Was she still okay? And the whole beating and, you know, really going deeper

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Crime Weekly sent you. Again, that's Oneskin.com slash Crime Weekly with Code Crime Weekly for 15% off and after you purchase, tell them Crime Weekly sent you. All right, we're back. So the Airbnb had been rented by Sonia and it was reserved from October 10th, Friday through October 12th Sunday. Now, the owners of that property told the police that had been set up as a no-contact check-in, meaning that the check-in process had been completed through the Airbnb application, and someone did check in on the 10th

and communicated during the reservation period using Sonia's account. So someone also used this same account to check out on the morning of October 12th. Airbnb's default checkout time is usually 11 a.m., and it hasn't been revealed what time Sonia's account checked out. But here's what I will also say. I wonder if there's evidence that Sonia's Airbnb account was signed in on Dwayne Hall's phone. Because remember, the police said when Sonia landed in the United States, two UK phone numbers went dark, were turned off. So if those phones weren't ever turned back on, or at least they weren't turned back on to a point where they had some kind of service, which you wouldn't, right? If you had a UK phone number and you landed in the

U.S., you wouldn't immediately have service on that phone, right? You would still probably see it roaming and doing something, but you wouldn't necessarily be able to send messages or do anything where you could communicate with someone, correct? I don't know how long it would take for the service to reactivate because you'd be basically on a roaming service at that point. But I think your point still holds because if she had turned her phone back on, even if it were just to use the data, more than likely for a second there her phone would have connected to one of those towers and the detectives would have had a much better idea of where she currently was at that point because it would have triangulated off of there to give them her coordinates. This wasn't, this is 2025. So they would have been able to track her

in much more detail if she had turned her phone on. So because of that barrier and because of the work they had to do to identify her last known whereabouts, that to me suggests that the phones were never turned back on, which would align with what you're inferring is that potentially the Airbnb account was logged in by, by Dwayne or from his phone or from a phone or a device that he had in his possession. But once again, we know that Sonia at some point on Saturday did try to use one of her phones at least to message a friend. And it doesn't look like those messages went through.

It looks like she just tried to send them, but they never connected to anything. It never connected. So she didn't have, yeah, again, being not on the. Maybe she didn't have the international plan active. Exactly. You know, there could be a few different reasons why it didn't go through. But in that moment, she wasn't connecting those dots. And they did say, like, that the service wasn't great in this area of Reddick in general.

Not like Dwayne said, where you just couldn't get anything in or out because Harold had blockers because he was able to call his wife Saturday night and say good night, right? But the fact that she couldn't get those messages out leads me to believe that the. Airbnb app was potentially on Dwayne's phone because he was able to check in and check out. And that was done successfully, which you would need the internet to do. I would imagine that he was heavily involved with the location selection because this is someone who's familiar with the area. More familiar than her. So even though, even though Sonia paid for it, I would imagine if we had access to all of their

digital correspondence or even their phone conversations, there would have been a point where he would have said, hey, book a spot over here. I know the area. It's remote. We'll be alone. This is a good spot for what we're trying to accomplish. And so he would be heavily involved in that process. So to imagine that he had access to the Airbnb account, I don't think that's a stretch.

Yeah. He might have even said, you know, send me the login information for your Airbnb account. I'll book it. I'll book it because her payment method and everything would have already on there. Yeah. Also very possible. He was definitely a big part of. the coordination here. This is not a guy who was told where to be, when to be there, and he just

did exactly what she wanted. He was involved in the planning. Exactly. And that has not been stated yet, but this is kind of one of those like, you know, it seems obvious and common sense. You're in his backyard, if you want to put it that way. This is his stomping grounds, not hers. You haven't gave us any information that she had been in this area before. So she didn't have a familiarity with it. He picked her up from the airport, drove her out there. He definitely appears to have known this location better than her. And that would, that would suggest that he was, at least from the location point perspective, he was heavily involved in that process.

And I think he was the one who checked in, who communicated throughout the reservation period, and then on Sunday morning checked out. Yep, makes sense. Well, we know it wasn't her that checked out. We don't. That's the thing. You're saying that they could have checked out, even with that video? Yes, yes.

This is why it's very complicated. At this point, we don't have proof. but it wouldn't make a lot of sense based on why we're covering this case and the reason and the purpose for renting that Airbnb. But I get I get where you're coming from. It's it's not unreasonable to say, is it possible they left and went to a secondary location? I have no evidence to suggest that they didn't. And so that does say something. My gut tells me it all happened in there, though.

They found, well, here's, I don't know. See, they found a few, like, drops of blood on a comforter. Yeah. But there's no other. description that any other blood was found. And Dwayne Hall, we're going to see messages that he's sending a friend later. And he says something that alludes to the fact that that Airbnb was not the place where Sonia died. Okay. So it's going to be big to find if we find Sonia. If we find Sonia, then we're going to get a cause and manner of death. And that could explain why there's a lack of blood.

But again, we'll see if we get there. So Airbnb's default checkout time, 11. Now, we don't know what time Sonia's account checked out. But Dwayne Hall's phone records showed. him leaving the Reddick property on the morning of October 12th, which would have been Sunday, at which point he drove south. He stopped at a Lowe's in Ocala, where he purchased a plastic tarp. Now here's the detail that grabs me. In the police report, it says that Dwayne Hall parked his vehicle in the parking lot of Lowe's. This is seen on the store surveillance, and it appears that he was talking to someone in the passenger seat before he entered the store. The police report also states that Hall's vehicle wasn't close enough to the store to see clearly, but it appeared that

there was someone in the passenger seat while Hall was away from the vehicle in Lowe's. And this person can be seen moving around inside the car while Dwayne Hall was inside of Lowe's. Okay, very interesting. And I see now where the assumption that Sonia was dead prior to checking out that morning becomes less likely, right? Unless someone met him there. picked someone else up or because he drove from Redick to O'Callow, where he lived, did he pick someone else up who helped him? Right. Right.

Yeah. Or even more than that, okay? We keep saying, oh, we're talking about the fact that Dwayne, if this all went down the way we think it did, there was something between the two of them, he killed her, and that's the end of it, right? Is it possible there's another player in this game that we're unaware of? was the fantasy to have multiple people torture her, assault her, and kill her. I don't know.

I know that. Didn't you say last episode? Last time she was going to meet more than one person. There was more than one person. So is it possible that he recruited a friend or someone else who was involved in this circle that showed up at the house later who wasn't on that video, that Saturday video? And after killing her, that's the person we're seeing in the front seat. We don't know.

Or we don't know. Because he lived in Ocala and he drove to Ocala, he could have stopped somewhere in Ocala before he goes to Lowe's. Maybe his partner, Ginger Stein. Yeah, Ginger. Okay? I know. Like, I know. She's a victim in this.

She's a victim. I don't know how much Ginger's a victim in this. I'm going to be honest with you because she's given interviews afterwards. That doesn't make her seem like that much of a victim. Okay. Okay. Yeah, there's a lot of different scenarios here. Friends, associates, partners, also people that could have been met online.

who have similar fantasy, similar kinks. A lot of different options here. A lot of investigative work needed. And I'm going to talk about it next time, but there's a lot of kind of missing people in this area of Florida who are sort of matching the description of Sonia. And there's some online that I've been talking to who live in the area who speculate that Sonia wasn't the first

and that there is a network of people operating in this area. I buy that 100%. Yeah. So after this, after Lowe's, Dwayne Hall drove to a Dunkin' Donuts in O'Cala where he purchased a coffee. The police report says at this point it's unclear if there's a passenger in his vehicle at this time. And then Dwayne drove to another location where he remained for an hour. So when he talked to the police on October 17th, this is the area where he claimed he went when he thought he was being followed by some silver, beige, color, shifting, blackout vehicle. and then he pulled off next to a wooded area and he tried to evade whoever was following him.

Dwayne told the police he knew he was there for about an hour because he smoked some dabs to calm his nerves. And he also told the police that when he left the area, he saw the vehicle that had been following him pull into that same area by the woods. Okay. So let's go back to Dwayne Hall during his October 17th interview with Florida Department of Law Enforcement Agent Rebecca McKinsey and Joseph Miller. So you were right, by the way, Joseph Miller was local. He wasn't an FDLE agent. He was the local police. So he represented the local police. Yeah, and that happens a lot, by the way. When you have a federal agency or an outside party, whether it's state or county, whatever it might be, it's usually a collaborative effort where you still have the local jurisdiction somewhat involved, even though we can clearly see who's heading up this interrogation. FDLE is handling it. But whether it's as a partnership or as a courtesy, he's being allowed to be in that room as well in case he can add context to certain things, specifically location-based things. So Dwayne Hall said that he and Sonia had been chatting online for a while.

And about eight months prior to October of 2025, they'd spoken on the phone to feel each other out. He said this was well before everything went to hell with his wife, Ginger, and well before his priorities in life had totally changed. He said the phone call was kind of cool because it was the first. time he'd ever spoken to a real person from the UK. He said the phone call was casual. They just got to know each other a bit and Sonia told him about her boyfriend who was not into the kind of sexual things that Sonia was into. Now, Dwayne said they didn't do any sexual talking on the phone because at that point, Sonia had become a real person to him. It was different than just chatting online and it felt more wrong now considering that he was married and a good family man. So Dwayne claimed that after the

phone call. They did chat some more online, but then his wife got really sick, and he pulled away, and he said at that point it should have been clear to Sonia that his energy and his interests had been redirected. Now, when asked what username he was using online, Dwayne acted as if he couldn't remember. And then he said it was probably sadist something, maybe alpha sadist. In fact, the username that Dwayne Hall used to communicate with Sonia on motherless was alpha sadist. I know that she is not alive anymore. I know that. You know that.

And I want to find her. No, I don't know that. I think you do. I don't know that. I suspect that. I strongly suspect that. Yeah. And I need your help to help me find her

because you are the person that was with her and you were the one that was the last one to see her life and you were the one to help her and to communicate with her and you were the one that picked her up from the airport it's time to just

like we've had this conversation I understand how you all met in the conversations and what the expectations were and I also know that those expectations were met and that you helped her and I want to find her so that I can tell her family that she's been found

because she deserves that. And you just helped her do something that she wanted to do and has been trying to do for a very long time. She has been trying to do this for a very long time. Went off to somebody else. You know she didn't. I don't know where she went. You do know where she's at.

I have no idea where she went. And you know that she's not alive anymore. I know she probably got what she wanted because she wasn't going to take anything else. Right. I know that. I don't know where the fuck she went. I don't know where she's at. I don't know where she ended up.

I don't know anything else. As an adult, she has the right to want that, and she reached out to you to help her. And I failed her. You didn't. You didn't. I failed her. In that regard, I failed her. I'm not the one that you are so delicately trying to go around. I'm not delicately.

Let me explain. Okay. You're the one that's delicately trying to go around and explain and trying to get the thing that I'm the one that killed her. I'm not the one. I didn't have anything to do with that end of it. I barely had anything to do with her after she got here. I didn't want her here

I wanted to do my job after my wife and everything like that I said that you helped her I don't mean you know what you're getting at I don't know where you helped her whether that means you helped her die or you helped put her somewhere

after she did what she wanted to do you helped her we know that I don't see the word We're getting into a dangerous territory here. Why is this dangerous? Because no matter what I say,

I feel myself getting roped in further and further and further into something that I had no part of that you guys need answers for. I don't think that you're a bad person because you helped her do what she wanted to have done. I actually think you're a person that regardless of you're a person that, regardless of

those thoughts that you said that you had the violent tendencies and the things like that, you saw a person who is in pain who needed help to do something that she didn't have the ability to do for herself and she had been trying for a very long time

and I actually think that that comes from a place of compassion. I tried to talk her out of it many times over the last year or so that she and I talked many, many times. I tried to talk. I tried to talk about it. I tried to talk about it. I try I even I even refocused her to such a degree before my wife got sick okay before my wife got sick I had even refocused her to a degree that she said it's the first time she'd ever enjoyed living so I'm sorry you want to find her I understand

you guys have a job to do you think that I have something to do with that and okay But I'm not saying it in a negative way. Listen, listen. I'm the last one that's seen her in life, and I get that. And I'm the only link that you guys have to anything tangently. I get that also. If I was sitting where y'all were setting, I would make me the same fucking way.

We are not on a separate page here in that regard. However, I do not know where she's at. You don't know what happened to her. Strongly suspect that she was no longer with us. But I can't tell you anything else. I don't know. Do I not be honest? I don't believe you.

You've given this whole thing about tangible things that just disappear and people that exist but don't exist and look like everybody, you know, in Marion County and Oklahoma. That was a joke. And so I just, the thing is, is you're trying to create this elaborate story that gives you all cleanliness. of nothing to do with this in any wrongdoing. I just don't believe you. Okay, that's fine. I think that... I already told the wife that nobody had ever

fucking believed that this fucking happened. I already knew, which is why, until the direct questions were asked, I didn't bother bringing it to fuck up. Why would I? Why would I? I'm going to get the same... Because if you know it's from me... Because if you know what the end result is of this whole

thing, just be up front with the information that you know. You... indicated that you didn't know her at all, that you had never even met with her when this first came up. And now you're talking about having sex with her, recording things and then deleting them. And I guess from my perspective, if you can try to understand it, it doesn't look great. I already know it doesn't look great. And there's a whole big reason for why that things can't hurt, information comes about the way it does from me at this particular juncture.

Okay? There's a huge reason for that. Because one, I already knew nobody would fucking believe me. I already knew. Me and the wife had already talked about that part of it. Nobody ever fucking plead me what happened. Why? I'm either a suspect or I'm not.

A suspect in what, though? That's the question. Well, as far as I understand it, legally, isn't that if you end a person's life, isn't that murder? I can't tell you what you are because you're not telling me everything. So to give you a direct answer, you'd have to give me a straight answer. I'm not sure. I'm thinking about that dirty word real fucking hard right now.

Okay, I love watching these videos. I could watch them all day long. I love the psychological warfare that goes on in these interviews. And by the way, both of these interrogators are doing an amazing job. I think it kind of goes without being said, even people who are not familiar with interrogation techniques, that the woman officer and I apologize, Guys, there's so many names.

Rebecca McKinsey from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. Detective McKinsey, right? Detective McKinsey, she is playing sympathizer, right? She's the good cop. She doesn't, yeah, she's playing good cop. She doesn't actually believe what she's saying. I've talked to you guys about this before where I've been in interrogation rooms with child molesters. And I've had to rationalize what they did to get them to admit to it.

And it made my stomach turn. But in that moment, you have to. make them feel like you're on their side. Like they have an ally somewhere. That's right. They have someone who understands them and it makes them more willing to open up and less likely to lawyer up, to be honest. You want to continue the conversation.

You don't want them to feel like they're back into a corner because once they lawyer up, the interrogation is over. On the other hand, you just said, Detective McKinsey was playing good cop. Well, what was the other gentleman's name? I can't remember his name off the top of my head. I said earlier. The other detective. The local cop, yeah.

The local guy, he's playing bad cop, right? Well, at this point, yeah, he's kind of sick of it. He wasn't always playing bad cop. We know that. No, but that's his role. He has seen what Detective McKinsey's doing, and he knows his job here. He knows that she's his friend, an ally, and I wouldn't be surprised. I could be wrong here, but at a certain point during this interrogation, if we have the video for it, he's going to leave.

He's going to leave for a moment to go catch some air and kind of like refresh and, it's going to give an opportunity for him, for Dwayne to confide in the good cop, the good cop who has his back. That's usually the way this tactic works where you get him riled up. You feel like it's her and Dwayne against the bad cop. And that's when he's more willing to say,

okay, I'm willing to talk to you. Here's what happened. You understand. But I love this approach. I love what they're doing. I also love that the guy detective here wasn't really saying much and he allowed Detective McKenzie

to kind of guide the conversation. And it wasn't until they felt like they squeezed all the juice out of that lemon in Dwayne, where now he's stepping in going, you're full of shit. You're full of shit. And I know you're full of ship because they feel at this point they've gotten everything they're going to get. And now Dwayne's just making stuff up. Yeah, I think what we have here too is with detective or agent McKenzie, she almost has an easier job of doing what she's doing as opposed to you trying to be in a room with a child molester

and make that child molester think that you like understand their motivations. right? It's not fun. Because with McKinsey, what she's saying is kind of like, oh, what's the difference between this gray area between what's morally okay and what's legally okay, where it's like, well, this is what she wanted to do. Like, we know. We have evidence that this is what she wanted to do. So like if you just helped her, you know, like we just need to find her. That's what our main motive. We're not trying to throw you in prison. We're not trying to, you know, paint you as anything. We just want to find her and give her back to her family. And but Dwayne, he doesn't believe right he's I don't want to say he's smart but he's not taking the bait he's yeah he's of the mind of like yeah

you're I know what you're trying to do here because he's like I'm sorry isn't it like when you kill somebody isn't that murder what does it tell us Stephanie about Dwayne about Dwayne that he knows that he what he did is wrong he knows what he did is wrong but more importantly he's researched this and that tells me one of two things either he just put in the work before this one to understand what he was doing in the legal implications or he's done this before bingo Yeah. There you go. This isn't his first rodeo. And I genuinely believe at this point. I would mean that way as well. That he's done this before. I would lean that way as well, yes.

So they're going to keep talking to him. Let's take a quick break. We'll come right back and go over that because it gets worse. This episode is brought to you by Mitt Mobile. And we're adults now and we have responsibilities and life sucks. But do you remember when summer used to feel like actual freedom? No homework, no school schedule, nor alarm clerk, ruining your life. Yes, I remember those days. How do I miss them? We can go back in a way because as adults, freedom looks a little different. Now it's things like not overpaying for wireless and not opening your phone bill like it's about to personally attack you. That's where Mint Mobile comes in because right now every single Min plan is just $15 a month, even unlimited. So you can break free from big wireless, gimmicks, and hitting that gotchas. And I love that because a wireless bill should not feel like a

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Very easy. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right. Premium wireless for $15 a month, less bill drama, more summer freedom. Yeah, and fewer mysterious charges showing up like a plot twist. To get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com slash crime weekly. That's mintmobile.com slash crime weekly. Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com slash crime weekly. That's it. There's no catch. Up front payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months, plan required, $15 per month equivalent, taxes and fees extra, initial plan term only, greater than 50 gig, may slow when network is busy, includes up to 20 gig hotspot, capable device required, availability, speed, and coverage varies. Cmitmobile.com. Okay, we're back. So you heard at the end of that last clip, Dwayne Hall said he's thinking about using that dirty word. And he's referring to asking for a lawyer. And I've seen people in interrogations do this before, kind of like, I'll talk to you. But if I ever feel like I have to ask for a lawyer, I'm going to stop. Kind of like they're dangling it over their head. If it's checkmate where there's nowhere to go and there's no way to navigate out of a corner, okay, lawyer. Don't bring me to a place where I'm not comfortable asking or answering these questions. So I really wish every one of you could experience. this because you want to back them into a corner because you can easily do it as a detective,

but you also still have to give them an out on each side of you where they don't feel trapped. So it's like this really weird. You can only trickle stuff out. You can't just be like, hey, we know this, this, this, this. And then they're going to be like lawyer. It's a balancing act. Like you want to just drop it on them. You want to just completely empty the clip with everything you have.

But you can't because you have to be right in the middle where you're letting them know that you know more than they think. you know, but also maybe you're still oblivious to what happened and there's an opportunity for them to say more and get themselves out of the situation when in reality, it's probably going to make it worse. So you don't want them. And people may not like this, but as an interrogator, we want to interrogate you. We don't want you to lawyer up. It's not because we're intimidated by the lawyer or we don't feel you deserve representation,

but we know that this interview is going to be the best chance we get at finding out what happened. because after consultation, you're probably not going to say much. This is going to go to trial. So you can't blame a detective for wanting that. Especially when you have all the evidence against someone like Dwayne Hall, where it's like it's really, really, it's really obvious what happened here, right? Like, and I got to sit here for hours and practice so much restraint with this person and so much self-control. When I just want to be like, hey, kind of like a lawyer, here's the file.

We know exactly what you did, why you did it. We know. So just tell us. But then you can't find Sonia. And the body is a big piece of evidence. Yeah. They strongly believe she's dead. That is the one truth thing they're saying.

They're trying to find her. And Dwayne's saying, I mean, I strongly suspect she is. He's like, you don't know that. I don't know that. If I don't know that, you don't know that. I strongly suspect she is. But there's a part here where he's unsure of what they know and if they've already found her or not.

Well, because he knows they not only have his car, but he left his phone. in his car, so they have his phone. He's already realizing during this interrogation, they know a lot more. Because, I mean, they started off with, hey, what do you know? Can you help us? And now, you know, the heat is definitely turned up in that room. So now he's saying, I'm going to ask for the dirty word in a second if you don't, you know, behave the way I want you to behave. But he did not ask for a lawyer in that moment.

And then he was asked, they kind of switched gears. Like they went a little softer after this, which pisses me off because in Dwayne's head he's like, ha ha, like, I have control. I know the lever to push to make you pull back and stop accusing me. So they kind of go a little softer at that point and they asked him, what would you tell Sonia's family? You know, they're looking for their daughter. They don't know what happened. You were the last person to see her alive, as you keep saying yourself, even though you said you saw her go off with someone else. So technically you weren't the last person to see her alive, but you keep saying you were, which I think is a slip for Dwayne. Because he

kept saying, I know I'm the last person to see her alive. That was a Freudian. Because they actually gave him a little bit more of that you were the last person with her that we know of and he's like i was the last person to see her alive he corrected them i know and then he kept saying it more than once yeah he's like i would if i was sitting where you are i would think i was a piece of shit too guys and so you keep saying that there was a person you dropped her off with so that you wouldn't be the last person to see her alive so you weren't the last person to see her alive yes but he kept saying that so they're like okay you're the last person to see her live sonia's family wanted to answer what would you say to them What would you tell her family?

They're not law enforcement. What would you tell her family? I would tell her family that the last time I seen them, she looked like she was happy and going to get what she wanted. And that's what they reported to me, that the last couple of weeks before she left, she was in a really good place. She was in a really good place because,

and I'll tell you exactly why she was in a really good place. Well, I don't know. She may have had other reasons, but from my point of view, she was in a really good place because I literally helped her change her daily routines to put her in a really good place. So not only did he kill her, but now he's like, listen, guys, I actually made her life better before she died.

What a great guy. I was changing her daily routines. Now, in fact, it wasn't true. Like Agent McKinsey said, it was not true that Sonia was the happiest she'd ever been leading up to her trip to Florida because Agent McKinsey is saying, hey, you know, before it's proven historically that before people do this thing that Sonia wanted to do, they are happy because they've made the decision and they know what they want. But that wasn't true. Once again, she's lying to him. At least according to Sonia's sisters, now Dwayne Hall presented

himself as a mentor to Sonia. He said he knew what it was like to live with depression and he'd given Sonia's structure in her life, including daily routines to follow and instructions on how to connect with her boyfriend. Like he was giving her advice on how to have sex with her boyfriend, right? And Sonia's sisters said, yeah, she'd always struggled with depression, but before she went to Florida, they had never seen Sonia more isolated or in need of help. Her sister Gemma said, quote, when this started to happen, there was a change. When I reflect back as easier to see just how much it pulled her down. She would always push people away, which made it harder for us because we wanted to be there. She always struggled with her mental health,

but she never disengaged this much. It kind of reminds me a little bit of an abusive relationship. you can't escape from. She just couldn't escape from this hold that he had. And quote. And this comes into what I think law enforcement was trying to introduce in the probable cause affidavit that it wasn't just what happened to her when she got to Florida. It was in the months and years leading up that he sort of started this almost coercive control over her where she couldn't make a move without him verifying that it was okay.

It was kind of this like, you know, BDSM like Dom submissive thing, right? Where he was the Dom. And if you know about that community, a lot of couples who engage in this kind of thing, this is what they'll do. It's like, I'm going to go out with a friend. Is that okay, master? Yes, I'll allow it or no, I won't. I need to go to the bathroom. Is that okay? And they do it in like this kind of four play way. But in in situations like this, it could be used in a very toxic coercive control way where he's making sure that she doesn't mentally feel like she can do anything without checking with him and getting the green light from him. And this is going to happen over the period of, you know, quite an extended period of

time. So that's what it kind of seems like they're trying to build this case for. Yeah, I mean, well, there's an escalation here, right, an evolution of time. They didn't just meet on motherless.com. And within a week, big plans to come to Florida. This was something that happened over an extended period of time where, like you just said, not to be redundant. It starts off with just a couple conversations, maybe some talking dirty. And now your definition of talking dirty and theirs is probably different. But it went that way.

And at some point, just like a lot of relationships that start maybe online or over the phone, at some point you're going to meet in person. And what is the whole relationship predicated on, this dominant whole kind of thing? And yeah, there was a reason why she came over. And it was to kind of bring this relationship to an end as far as what they've been fantasizing about over the phone online for over a year. But I think they're even trying to say like, yeah, you can say she came from the UK to America of her own free will. But was it if every move she made was at the direction of him? Yeah, your direction.

And they could even go further and say she was. almost brainwashed. Yeah, groomed and brainwashed. Right. So that's going to play a part in this. So then Dwayne Hall's told by the police that they're going to search the area he'd been parked in on the morning of October 12th. You know, that was the area he said he was being followed by the blacked out grayish, silver color shifting car. And so he pulled over because he was scared, right? They said, we have your phone. We have the coordinates. We're going to search that now, actually. We're sending people there. They are searching it now. And this is when he said, he wants to stop talking.

You have my vehicle. You've got my phone records. You've got everything. And we now have the multiple stories that you've given us, the inconsistencies. So if you're not, if you're not going to fill in the gaps and help us complete this story, we're going to go with what we have and we're going to move forward. We're searching the woods. And we've already identified multiple spots where we're starting to look.

And when we find her, it's going to look even worse for you. Because if it was something that she wanted, which she was. I've already told you. I have documentation that says so. That changes the story. I don't even know how that would change the story, okay? Because intention matters. Because what?

Intention. Your intention. You didn't kidnap her. Right? So if I'm to follow along what everybody's saying here, I think that I can't afford the lawyer, but I think I'm going to need one. this point. There you go. And you know what tip you know what tip to scale there? He realized really

quickly that they they're really far in this investigation when the mail officer says we're already searching the woods. Yeah. He's like, oh, man, this is, I know it's if he's, if they're searching this area, they're potentially going to find her. I'm screwed. Even agent McKinsey. McKinsey can't even pull him back from it. She's like, yeah, yeah, I have documentation. She wanted this. And he's like, and she's like, and that might change things. And he's like, I don't see how it could. No, he knows he's, he knows he's asked out. I don't even see how it could. And she's like, well, because intention matters. And I hate this intention matters thing because I always say this to people. It's like, well, I hurt you, but I didn't intend to. Your intention matters, but it doesn't negate

impact. So what you intended, it doesn't take away what the outcome was. And I think he on some level understands that. And that's why he's saying, I don't see how it does make a difference or how it changes things, right? No. So after this, Dwayne gets handcuffed. And they told him to sit tight in the interview room while they conducted their searches of a few areas. And I know this is petty. I know this is petty. But I don't care because this guy sucks. And I have to play this clip because at some point, they brought him some like fast food and a soda. And this is what happened. Of course, at least eat a couple fries or something. It's something in your stomach, okay? Try. All right. I did the last time I taste.

It's so good. What does it feel like my last meal? I mean what? I don't exactly how to feel better. I heard the whimpering. I couldn't really make out what he was saying. It's kind of tough in my headphones. Did you, do you know what he said?

So at first he said, this is the last time I'll taste something. Right? And then he's like... Well, you might be tasting something again in prison, but we'll taste. You'll taste something, my friend. You may not, it may not taste as well good as that Wendy's drinking. And then he's got like a French fry in his hands with his handcuff.

And he's like, ah! And the only reason we enjoy that is because we know what he did. And, you know, it's amazing how this day started for him going in there and not wanting. and to shake her hand. I also think that was kind of a woman thing as well, to be honest with you. And I don't always go there, but that's what it felt like to me. He clearly doesn't respect women. He doesn't respect women for sure.

And he doesn't respect law enforcement. That's obviously a big part of it. But you go from that where you think you're the king of the castle to now you're cleaning the latrine. You know what I mean? Yeah, I love to see how confident he was with his arm draped over the couch. Like, why don't you directly ask me some questions and I'll give you direct. answer, but

and he's all smug and then he's like, ah, cry it? Now he's crying into his, adding a little extra salt to those fries. Yeah.

Oh, man. I love it. I love it. So, and it's funny because this is a whole thing. You got to watch this interview. If you go,

if you guys, it's a great interview, man. It's a great interview for a lot of reasons. He's like moving around the room with his food. You know, he's like trying to eat. Then he's like,

huh. He couldn't do it. And I guess he knows he screwed. He knows he's screwed. Which I'm sure you're like stomachs and knots at this point. How could you eat? Yeah, it's over. It's over.

In his head, he's like, I'm never going to have a burger and fries and a crispy Coke again, you know, but I can't eat it because I'm so anxious and so nervous. So I guess he was too devastated to eat after crying over a few French fries and his crispy Coke because after a few minutes, Dwayne got up and he timidly knocked on the door and he asked if he could talk to the detectives again. What would you like to talk about? I wonder you can't basically my entire state. You want to recant your entire statement? Yes. Okay. When we ended the interview, you had mentioned wanting an attorney,

so that presents a conundrum for us. So I can go as far as I did the last time, but I want to recant everything because I'm many things, but I can't stand being a liar. I can't stand it. Okay. We're going to read your rights again to make sure you totally understand that, And then if you want to keep talking, we'll keep talking.

We'll keep talking up to a certain point. But I want to recant a big bunch of it, like the entire thing. I want to start over and I want to give you guys like from the beginning. The whole fucking thing from the beginning. You know, he's found a loophole in the system, Stephanie, in case you didn't know, when you basically, I said in episode one where they give you the right. rope and you hang yourself. Once you realize what you did and you have a chance to replay it, you can just actually go reverse uno. I want to take that all back. Everything I said, I want to recant

it all. He's like, you want to recant your entire statement. He's like, we can keep some of it, but no, actually, not the parts that implicate me. Remember when you left the room last time, like, everything before that, everything before that goes away. So basically everything I said, I want to recant it. So the last four hours we've been talking, wipe it clean. Yep. Can you just delete those tapes, please? And I also like the hand motion, the hand motion of like, let's just get rid of that. Can we start fresh?

I'm surprised he didn't stand up and like walk backwards and be like, I will say that there is something here because we're joking about it. But I don't know where this is going to go, but I would say, okay, let's do it again. And then see what version he gives this time because maybe there's a chance that he gives you. something else that he didn't remember giving you in the first one or not giving you in the first one. So you're always willing to listen. But yeah, sorry to tell you, bud, that's all on record. So it ain't going anywhere. Well, they don't tell them that, right? They're basically like, well, we have to like read your Miranda rights to you all over again. So because you ask for a lawyer.

So technically we can't recant anything. We can't talk to you. But we can if we read your Miranda rights over. My favorite part of the whole thing is he's like, listen, I want to recant it. Not because I know I'm screwed, but because. I'm a lot of things, but I am not a liar. I know I've lied to you. I've lied to you for hours. And that's really eating at me. So I don't want to recant it because I know that I'm screwed and you're about to find her. I want to recant it because I just can't stand being a liar. Can't do it? It's like morally. I can't sit here and eat my Coke and my freaking fries while being a liar. Okay, so they had to read him his Miranda rights again. And if you remember the last time, they read him his Miranda rights. He was very cocky. He was not so cocky this time. He sat there. quietly and listened like a good boy. He told them that he had met Sonia on motherless two years prior and he had started mentoring her because he wanted to make her life better and he didn't want her to follow through on taking her own life. Dwayne said that in the past year, Sonia had offered to help him because he owed the IRS a lot of money. She offered to help me with that

and I said yes. And from there, I started mentoring her a little bit further. And, and She seemed to be getting better. It got, it came along, came along, and eventually my wife got really, really sick. Really, really fucking sick. And that's when I started working out, like a cover story. The cover story, that was, sorry to fall through it. But that was the cover story she wanted. It was the cover story she assisted that I stick to.

I can stick to that story. I can't. It's just, it's no good at this point. You guys already know that's not part of the fucking thing anyway. Talk to neighbors, you did this, you've done that. So... Whose cover story was it? I'm sorry. It's hers.

Well, we came up with it together. So this is Sonia's cover story. Yeah. And you told us previously. Yes. That was what we came up with together to try to... She insisted that she did not want to be a burden to me or my wife in the process of getting her needs met.

That's the only way I can put that, okay? And I was very appreciative of that, and I just wanted to help her. And there's still, I'm still looking at. to keep my promise to her that I'd already made to her prior. She just didn't want to be disturbed anymore, basically. It's the only way I can put that. I'm sorry, I'm going to keep that promise. Who didn't want to be disturbed?

Her. Sonia didn't want to be disturbed. She didn't want to be disturbed anymore. After she came here, she didn't, she wanted that to be it. she didn't want to be bothered by the trappings of humanity so to speak anymore she wanted

she wanted to be done she wanted to be over she didn't want to be bothered that's why I can't tell you anymore after that okay I can't tell you because you're keeping a promise

to someone keeping a promise I fail with some shit in my life I don't I'm not going to fail in that one I don't already fail in my vows to my wife trying to help somebody

and now she's probably in the fucking hospital panic attack or god knows why you guys have probably been to my house the kid's probably fucking losing his mind like I said I've fucked up every fucking thing I've fucked up my entire life and I am already

planning on never being able to go home again And even if I do, what do I got to go back home to? I won't have a way to make money. I won't be able to take care of anything. I'm forever stained because I helped somebody. We did play a little bit. That's true. We fought a couple of times, but I only got off once because I was not into it.

I couldn't. I could help. I think I was betraying my wife every time I cried. Yeah. And I couldn't. I couldn't, like you said, body will react whether the mind wants to or not sometimes. She didn't do what she was supposed to do. Sonia, she didn't do what she was supposed to do.

What was she supposed to do? She was supposed to bring, she wasn't supposed to, she was supposed to bring cash. She wasn't supposed to bring cards. She was supposed to bring cash. Okay. Because. It was you traceable? I owe the IRS almost $10,000 for the last two years.

And she volunteered to help me pay that off. Can you tell me how the plan came about for her to come here? I wish I could. I wish I could. There was a lot of talk back and forth. And then like I said, this went on for two years probably. At first she kind of just kind of like, I got the impression that she was kind of joking. And then she told me that a couple of dudes stood her up.

And one dude kept robbing her, like, digitally, taking the money. And that caused a whole big, much problems for her. Was she trying to pay him to help her die? I don't know what the story was. I don't. That was on her personal side. I just know that she was telling me that baby man is high. She's grabbing the baby man.

And I kept stalking her digitally and then charging her account like hoars of money. And it drove her basically a pretty serious debt. And she finally got it stopped. After I gave her some advice on how to get it stopped, she finally got it to stop. And then it was shortly after that that she wanted to meet. And you were up for it? I thought it would be okay. Yeah.

I wanted to help. How did Sonia ask you to make this promise? What did she ask you? She did not want to be found. She did not want to be returned home. She wanted to be gone. Gone. So you feel like you would be breaking that promise if you told us where she was?

I can't confirm or recognize that, but I can't break my promise about anything regarding that. I can't tell you where she went and I can't tell you anything about it. I can't, I can't break that promise. I've been breaking fucking promises and being a piece of shit for too long and that's why I wanted you guys to come back in here. I can't, I can't keep being a piece of shit, but I can't break that promise either. Well, if we told you that we found her, would you be able to talk about it then? Because you wouldn't be telling us where she was at? No.

Because we already know. That part would probably, I'm not saying them again, but that's where it would most definitely require legal counsel to be present. To talk about that part. Yeah. So first off, a few things I'm taking from that video. Grooming is now referred to as mentoring. that's one thing. Absolutely, yes.

Mentoring. Actually, mentoring in this community is exactly that, by the way. It's older men taking younger women and like what they call mentor. And it's grooming, basically, yes. So that was one thing. And the next thing, and this is what I was saying before this video played, where you do allow him to talk again because you may get information. You didn't get the first time.

And I feel like we did. We did find out. the issue here. The plan all along was for it to be in cash. Mm-hmm. Exactly. That was, I guarantee you that was the, that was the agreement and that was the impression he was under. So then she shows up in the United States. And when there's supposed to be that exchange for cash, she pulls out cards. And I'm sure there was frustration there. And I'm sure he was not happy about it, but he was desperate for the money. And he was hoping that. So he tried to get in any way he could. He was hoping it would slip through the cracks and this wouldn't be an issue, but that is literally the linchpin which started this whole thing.

That's what tied him to this case. Without that credit card transaction, we might not be here right now. Yeah. Maybe, but there's also a chance we're not. This really did him in that credit card transaction. I mean, they would have tracked her Airbnb and they probably would have tested the DNA on those things. Yeah. Probably would have gone to him eventually.

Maybe. Maybe. Maybe, but this really did him in and it brought him right into the fold. And I think there's a lot of truth in that that this was supposed to be completely off the books, all cash. And she shows up with a curveball. And I'm sure he was like, what the, are you doing? Like, okay, well, I guess I have to do that. So that was one thing. And then let's get to what's really important in this video because there's a lot here. He's not directly saying it, but he's indirectly saying it that he wanted to help a person. And so without saying the words, he's admitting that, We all know she wanted to die. I helped her do it. That's a nice way of putting, I killed her. And then he's going to be noble about the fact that even though he's admitting to doing this, the one final promise he's not going to break because he's broken a lot in his life is he's not going to tell you where she is.

Because I've been a piece of shit too much, but I won't do it here. Yeah, yeah. It's all victim mentality. That's the thing that'll actually get me. I can't. What he's not realizing in that moment is he's admitting to know. where she is. So by saying I can't tell you is not saying I don't know. It's saying I know where she is, but I'm not going to let you know where she is, which lets them know, you did it. So it's basically

the mission of guilt here, although it's not direct. It's not what you would, you know, want as a detective, but it's better than most. So really compelling how this story has changed. And now he's starting to let us into the truth. We're still not there, but we're closer than we word during this whole Harold bullshit that he was given us. Yeah, exactly. So we have a lot to kind of unpack here. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to by Revolve. And I feel like the most dangerous words in the English language are, oh, it's a casual event. Yeah, because it's never casual. Never, never. Someone says it's casual. And suddenly there are photos happening. There's a dinner reservation. Someone's wearing heels. You're standing in your closet.

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So first of all, you know, I want to talk about that last clip for a second because we've seen a lot of stuff over the years as we've covered these cases. But the level of victimization that Dwayne Hall is able to cling on to in the light of what he had done, it's truly mind-blowing to me. All he did was help someone. right? And how his whole life is going to be over because of Sonia. And he's betrayed his wife because of Sonia. And this is all just because he wanted to help Sonia. And by the way, Sonia didn't want him connected to any of this, which is why they together had come up with the Harold Cover story. But she couldn't even do that right because she was supposed to have brought cash with her to Florida, but she didn't keep her word. And it's all because of Sonia. But don't worry, he doesn't want to be a

piece of shit anymore. So he's going to keep his word to Sonia, even though he's blaming her for everything and should be very angry at her because this is all her fault according to him. And he's not going to tell anyone where her body is because, you know, she didn't do what she said she was going to do, but he's still going to do what he promised that he would do, right? He's better than Sonia. That's what he's posing to them. Secondly, law enforcement didn't need Dwayne Hall to tell them where Sonia was at this point because they had tracked his cell phone location to that area that he was claiming he was hiding from

the car on the morning of Sunday, October 12th, a wooded area just south of, of, southwest highway 484 and east of Marion Oaks Boulevard. So this is actually pretty close to where Dwayne Hall lives in Ocala. So he wasn't in Gainesville, nothing like that. So Marion County Sheriff's Office field force members located in an area of disturbed soil that was lighter in color than the soil around it. Cadaver dogs were brought in and they alerted on the area of disturbed ground where they ultimately found the remains of Sonia XLB in a shallow grave. While they they were digging. They also found a label to a shovel in the dirt, and this label matched the same shovel that Dwayne Hall had purchased at Walmart, the same shovel that was located in his garage

and forensically processed due to a reddish-brown staining seen on the handle of the shovel that tested positive for blood. And DNA results from the shovel handle showed two profiles on that handle. One was Sonia Exelby and one was Dwayne Hall. So at that point, the remains of Sonia were transported for autopsy, and Dwayne Hall was arrested for credit card fraud and unlawful use of a two-way communication. And Dway was very confused by this. I want to let you know that I am arresting you for the credit card fraud, right? Once you get out there, you get an attorney and you want to have a conversation with me about the rest of what happened, feel free to reach out to me, okay? I don't really understand what's going on right now.

you're being placed under arrest for credit card fraud for using Sonia's cards. Okay? I mean, okay. I'm a little confused about literally everything else, though. I feel like they, I don't know. I feel weird about the whole thing. It's a few things. I know it's a lot.

That's why I said. Processed. You think about it. And some things adding up there. You're charging me for credit card fraud? more charges coming right I don't know I just tell you like right now you're getting charged your credit card fraud okay do you expect more charges coming did you expect something different yeah but we're not going to go there I mean is there something you want me to charge

you with you impounded me you impounded my vehicle you're I'm about having I have no idea what's going on with that. If I'm even going to get that back, and the wife is for all I know, stranded somewhere. Okay. I mean, and credit card fraud. Okay. I mean, if you want something else, let me know.

What do you want me to charge you with? Charge me with, go home. Okay. All right. You're going to be going with this deputy. Let's do whatever we're doing then. All right. Guy's so dumb.

He's so dumb. Yeah, they're charging him with credit card fraud because that's the charge they have the admission of guilt to at that moment. So they charge him to hold him. He's not leaving. Well, they're saying she said to him, like, once you get out after this credit, you know, if you want to get a lawyer and you want to talk to us about this other stuff, then, and he's like, what? Let me leave. I mean, he's like, you're not charging me with killing her. Yeah. So, so she's playing games with them. It's great. It's great. And he goes right back into it. As soon as he feels like he has a little power. He's like, like, yeah, impounded my car. My wife's stranded. Now he's the victim again, right? Well, he's like, oh, maybe I should play this up, you know? But, The fact, I've, I've never seen that before where he's basically they're like, You're free to go. That's it? Yeah.

Are you, this has got to be a trick, right? Like, as soon as I step out the door, there's going to be seven sheriffs there waiting or arrest me. No, I mean, she knows, he knows, you know, it's, it's a cat and mouse game at this point. But that was, that's a funny interaction where you would think he would just play into it. Go, okay, yeah, that's what I figured credit card fraud. That's the worst I did here.

So sure. But he's like, wait, that's it? And she's like, are you expecting more? he's like, yeah, actually I am. She's also trying to be like, I told you that, you know, you were just trying to help someone. I told you that might change the situation, you know, like. Well, credit card fraud over $1,000 is a felony. So he's not going to, my understanding, I mean, it could be different.

He's not going to get released. He's not going to get released right away. They're going to arrest him, process him, right? And then, yeah, put him in front of a judge and see if he gets bail. Yeah. So, but theoretically, if he does all that, he's going to be out. Right? So, I mean, obviously, like you said, everyone knew that Dwayne Hall had murdered Sonia, but they still had to identify her remains because they hadn't been able to do that yet. I mean, once again, we all know what we're dealing with here. We know with Sonia, but legally they have to identify her remains. And they still had to investigate and gather evidence to build the case that they knew was there. And Dwayne made it very easy for them to do that. The medical examiner confirmed that Sonia had died from four stab wounds to her torso. Two wounds on the left side of her chest, which were four to six inches deep, and two to the left side of her back, which were between five and seven inches deep.

No murder weapon was found at the Airbnb or at the location where Sonia's body was found buried. But luckily, Dwayne Hall was able to call his wife, Ginger, from jail. And during a phone call with Ginger on October 27th, Dwayne talked to her about a friend of his that he called Rick. And Dwayne told Ginger that Rick would be sending her a package in six months. months. So I did my research. I don't mind calling this guy out at all. Rick is Richard Snyder. And he lived in Ohio, the same place that both Dwayne Hall and Ginger Stein were from. The probable cause affidavit for Dwayne Hall states that Rick and Dwayne communicated regularly with each other on Facebook and Ginger told the police that she had also been communicating with Rick on Facebook as well. So the area of Ohio

where Rick lives is blackened out in the affidavit, but you know, I don't know. I don't know. I did my research and from the research I've done, Ginger, Dwayne, and Rick were all from that same county, that same area of Ohio. In fact, that is where Ginger met Dwayne so many years ago when she was just a 16-year-old riding her bike through the neighborhood. If you would like to tell us about how you and Dwayne met, that sounds like a fine place to start. Well, that was about 30 years ago. We met when I was 16 years old. Oh, my gosh. You were 16. How old was he? I think he's 10 years older than me, so he would have been 26.

Okay. And then we just chit-chatted for the first years. And then as soon as I turned 18, actually I think 17, we started dating. And we've been together, sort of, off and on ever since. Where did you meet him? I mean, he was 26 and you were in high school. Where did you meet him at? Just on a weekend I was riding my bike and I just happened to ride past his house.

He lived a couple blocks down the street from me, and he just saw me and said hey, and I said, hey, and just kind of went from there. Do you want to address anything about your marriage because you guys knew each other for a long time, and then you weren't made, and then you didn't get married until recently, right? Yeah, I didn't, I never really believed in the legality of marriage. He wanted to have her forever, and I just see it. is a piece of paper. I think he and I, in my opinion, he and I were married, have been married for 20-some years. I mean, I considered us married

even before we got the license. Yeah, so to summarize that video in a couple words, Dwayne's been a sicko for a very long time. Yeah, she's a 16-year-old, a 16-year-old kid riding her bike, and he's a 26-year-old man. And she's like, as soon as I turn 17, we started dating.

Yeah, I want to go back to what you were saying before the video. because it was a question that I had posed earlier and you pushed back on it and now it makes more sense because we know we know the manner of death right she was stabbed to death and there's not a lot of blood in that room but I believe and you can correct me if I'm wrong because there's a lot of information that we have in dates and times and all that but you had said something about a blue tarp he bought a tarp after he bought a tarp Sunday morning remember when he was at Lowe's and then there was someone in his passenger seat So my question is this, though. He bought the tarp after he checked out of the room. Right. Yeah, so that wouldn't make sense then. Based on what we have right now, even though it's odd to think this because I didn't initially,

you would think that would be the crime scene, would be the Airbnb. But it's looking more and more like there's a secondary crime scene. Maybe it's where she was found, but they spent some time together. They role played in that room, had sex multiple times. and then after they were done and they had completed that part of it, she was transported to a secondary location and killed there.

That's what makes, you know, critical thinking, reasonable deduction. There could be variables we're not aware of, but that's what it feels like at this point. Well, they were, yes, they were in the, I want to be very clear. They didn't just role play and have sex. She was beaten.

You could see in the videos. Her face is bruised. Her chest is bruised. Right. But that could be, and I'm not trying to be insensitive. but that could be, I'm not making it okay, but that could be part of, quote, unquote, the role playing. Yeah, according to what she said in the video, he was like, is this what you wanted done to you?

And she was like, yeah, I guess technically, but she doesn't seem happy about it or as if that's what she wants. I am going to watch that video, by the way, whether we play it or not, I am going to watch it just to get my own opinion. And obviously, everyone can interpret it differently. But again, I'm not trying to be insensitive about what happened in that room. It's unacceptable. but in the eyes of what we're looking at here, maybe the abuse was part of the role playing. Doesn't make it okay.

I'm not saying that in any way, shape, or form. I'm just incorporating that into it. But yeah, it's looking more and more for stab wounds in the chest. I would expect to see a significant, chest and back. I would expect to see a significant amount of blood, and yet we don't have it. So maybe there was something else purchased

that we don't have a record of, some other tarp or plastic. that we're unaware of, but that doesn't align with someone being seen inside the vehicle. Right. If that someone was Sonia, right. If it was Sonia, maybe someone else showed up, but based on what we have, I'm only going off the evidence so far. It doesn't appear that we have anyone else.

It doesn't mean that there wasn't, but just what we know, it seems like it was the two of them. And that would lead me to believe that the second person in that vehicle would in fact be Sonia when you couple that with the lack of blood evidence inside that room. Yeah. So, but here's the thing. It seems like Ginger is more in the loop than she would like to make it appear that she is. And once again, I go back. She met him when she's 16.

Is it very possible that Ginger also was groomed by Dwayne Hall? No doubt. Absolutely. We've seen this happen with killer couples before. Okay. but I want to also say if she knew took part allowed it to happen, to me, that is not an excuse and I don't care. I couldn't agree more. It could be, I don't know how this is going to play out.

A final part of this episode I may feel differently. There's a spectrum, right? It could be as simple as he was allowed to be in a quote unquote, open relationship where she didn't know the specifics of what he was doing and what it actually involved. Or it could be the other end of the spectrum, which you're alluding to that she was allowed. heavily involved in the entire process and knew exactly what he was doing. I'm oblivious to that at this point and maybe you're going to shed some light on that, but it could be one of the other. But I think absolutely when I say she was groomed, she was groomed to believe that Dwayne had the right to go out and sleep with other people while she stayed at home. Right. And yeah, she does say something

to that effect. But now you have Dwayne telling her, hey, my friend Rick is sending you a package. And when you find out what is in that package, that matters. Okay. So the affidavit says that on October 31st, Agent McKinsey and Detective Miller interviewed a person who is referred to as a source who had information about Dwayne Hall. The affidavit says that this source provided information that was credible and not known to the public. Dwayne Hall told this source, who is a man, that he had killed a woman in her 30s from the UK and he had helped her die because she couldn't do it herself. Hall said he was confident that he would get away with it because the police only had cell phone records placing him at the scene. The police did not know where she had died and they did not have the weapon. You want to take a guess at who that source is? I don't know. It's not Rick. You don't think so? It's not, okay?

Because he's another person. Because he's another person. So the source said that he had asked Dwayne if Dwayne had shot this woman. And Dwayne said no. He also said he had not put a bag over her head. so this led the source to believe that the woman had been stabbed. Dwayne also told the source that it had been harder to do than he thought, and he had a contingency plan in place in case the police began to close in on him as a suspect.

Dwayne said he had a friend who would help him if he needed it, but he did not give the source that friend's name. That friend is Rick. So on this same day, October 31st, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement looked at Facebook messages between Dwayne Hall and Rick Snyder, his friend in Ohio. On the evening of October 12th, Rick had messaged Dwayne at 1046 p.m. asking how's life? And according to the probable cause affidavit, the two messaged back and forth about life. But then on October 13th, after Dwayne got the call from Florida Department of Law Enforcement agent Calvin Lee asking about Sonia's financial transactions, Dwayne messaged Rick Snyder again. He said he needed Rick's address again and he wanted to know the correct spelling of Rick's last name. And then he said his phone might be tapped, stating, quote, might be a big storm coming for me, end quote. After that, there were two messages that had

been deleted by Rick Snyder, followed by another message from Dwayne Hall that stated, quote, delete that. So basically, some messages were exchanged. Then Dwayne said delete that. And on Facebook Messenger, you can delete the messages. And then it was just a message has been deleted. Right. So the following day, October 14th, Dwayne Hall messaged Rick Snyder on Facebook again, telling him, quote, we'll need this back. in six months if this storm passes over with no lingering fallout. Please, for the love of shadows, don't lose this box. There's no need to even open it. There are very precious and valuable personal items. End quote. Dwayne had sent a picture in this message thread along with this message,

but that picture was also deleted. So Rick Snyder replied back to Dwayne, quote, should I bury it in the yard? L.O.L. I'm joking. I'll keep your stuff safe. End quote. Dwayne wrote back, quote, Thanks, man, I appreciate it. Just make sure you message Ginger and ask her about the return in six months just in case this storm is as bad as expected. End quote.

So Rick asked Dwayne if this was about child support and Dwayne replied that he couldn't say. Rick's reply to this was, quote, this is why you shouldn't do dirty by yourself, always bring your guard badger. End quote. Dwayne Hall replied, quote, L.O.L. right.

I don't think the guard badger. would have done any good in this instance. And quote, Rick Snyder wrote back, quote, well, if I think it's stupid, you know it must be insanely stupid. End quote. Dwayne Hall wrote back simply, yep. And then Rick Snyder said, quote, admit it. We get caught way less when I'm with you.

There you go. There you go. Okay. Self-explanatory. This is not their first experience with this. And it seems like it's a network. It seemed like it's a ring and there have been other occasions where Dwayne and Rick were doing things. Allegedly done these types of things together.

But it does sound too also that there's an admission that there isn't another party that was involved in this one. And so that is even more likely that it was Sonia in that vehicle. Yes. Or Dwayne's just not telling Rick, right? Maybe there's like some jealousy. I don't know. Listen, this is going to be a close circle. And listen, the fact that he's even willing.

to send this box to Rick tells you how much he trusts him. And you only get this level of trust if it's a sibling or if you both have a partner in crime dirt on each other. And you know where the bodies are buried literally and figuratively. So Rick and Dwayne are very close. Now, as far as the box, can I speculate? You're probably going to tell us what's in it. But I just want to guess for the fun of it.

Sure. I don't think these are pieces of evidence that are linked to the case. I think they're personal belongings that have value that Dwayne is concerned about being seized if he's arrested. That's my guess. All right. Well, let's see. We'll see. So I was kind of like, what does this term guard badger mean?

Yeah, I didn't know what that was. I just thought it was like basically someone, you know, a lookout, a lookout outside the facility or the location. I looked into it. And there is an internet joke. It's pretty obscure. But people talk about owning honey badgers. And then they're like, hey, I have a honey badger. Like, I feel bad for anyone who tries.

to mess with me or break into my house because my guard badger will take care of that intruder or that attacker easily. So honey badgers, as we know, are legendary for being fierce, fearless, protective. They're feisty. I almost took it as this was a pet name that Dwayne had for Rick. And he probably in person referred to him as his guard badger who was out there. If the fan, he had his boy Rick to guard him and actually take on the fight. And so I felt like he was talking in like the third person like,

this is why you bring your guard badger with you. And Rick's like, yeah, admit it. When I'm with you, way less problems. We get caught wayless. And I think it's a lookout. Like you said, it's a lookout. I think that's what he's basically say that is bodyguard.

When we've done this before, I've had a lookout. Make sure you don't leave loose ends. Make sure you're not leaving stuff. Yes. You know, a trusted accomplice. Your consigliary. Am I saying that right? Consigliari.

Yeah. Yeah. You're a trusted accomplice. Somebody. How do you say it in Italian? It's, you know. Consigliere. Yeah, I could have done that.

But no, yeah, that's his, that's his, that's his, this is his, this is his right-hand man, for sure. That's, that's his right-hand man, you know. And so I think the guard badger is not like an item or another thing that he would, I think he's referring to Rick. Now, during the investigation, the police found out that Dwayne Hall had mailed a package that weighed one pound and 11 ounces from Ocala, Florida to Rick Snyder in Ohio. The package was scheduled to be delivered on October 6th. 16th and Dwayne had reported it to UPS as being worth $500. So on October 16th at 610 p.m. Rick sent Dwayne a message on Facebook asking him to check what time his stuff was supposed to arrive because Rick had to go to the grocery store and he didn't want to miss the UPS guy.

So Rick sent another message to Dwayne because Dwayne responded back and he was like, it should be there today. Like, why are you asking? You know. And Rick said to Dway, quote, you're jumpy. Why you like long tail cat? in room full of rocking chairs, end quote. And Dwayne Hall replied, quote, because that box contains two of my most prized possessions, and I really don't trust the mail system. UPS is usually okay, though.

End quote. After this, Dwayne Hall sent another message to Rick, quote, I feel strangely naked without them. And Rick respond, quote, I get it. So how do I help you unfuck yourself out of whatever mess you are in? End quote. Dwayne Hall wrote back, quote, I don't know, because I don't know what kind of mess it is for now just hold on to the box. If anybody asks about the box that isn't ginger, it doesn't exist.

End quote. Rick Snyder tells him okay. And then Dwayne Hall writes, quote, thanks, man. I always knew I could count on you. End quote. Later that evening, Rick Snyder messaged Dwayne again. He told him he got the box. He said it looked like a Walmart order and he sent an image to Dwayne that was later deleted.

And Dwayne Hall said, quote, L.O.L. I know best way to secretly send something. End quote. Rick asked Dwayne. if he should open the box or no. And Dwayne said, quote, you can, just don't lose or misplace the contents. Oh, and beware of the sterling silver. Probably a good pound of that is the silver.

End quote. Precious metals. There you go. So Rick told Dwayne that he wasn't going to open it and Dwayne said, L.O.L. OK. Of course, the Florida Department of Law Enlisted the help of the Washington County Sheriff's office in Ohio and paid a visit to Richard Snyder with a search warrant. and Snyder confirmed that a package from Hall had been delivered on October 16th.

And apparently, he had opened the box because he told the police that inside he'd found an engraved knife and a sheath along with a bracelet. So we have to talk about this stuff. This is very important. But before we do, I want to take our last break and we'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Talkiatry. And I think a lot of people knows what it feels like to hit a point where they're going through something, you know, anxiety, depression, ADHD, all of the above. Whatever you're dealing with becomes more than just a rough patch. And there's a point where you realize I need a little extra help here.

Absolutely. And when that happens, therapy can be helpful, but it may not be the whole answer for everyone, right? And sometimes you need psychiatric care, someone who can evaluate what's going on, diagnose mental health conditions and prescribed medication if it's appropriate. Exactly. And that is where tachyotry comes in. Talkiatry is a 100% online psychiatry practice that provides comprehensive evaluations, diagnoses, and ongoing medication management for conditions like ADHD, anxiety, depression, and much more. And that distinction matters, right? Talkiatry is psychiatry, not a therapy-only platform. You're meeting with a medical provider who can diagnose mental health conditions. And like I just said, if you need medication, they can prescribe it. And this is a big deal,

because I don't know if anybody's ever tried, but finding, much less just finding a therapist is going to take forever and it's hard to find someone like who's in your network or who has an available appointment. When something like this is going on, you need help right away. You don't have time. It's even harder to find a psychiatrist who has time to see you right away or is in your network. You're on a wait list, out of network costs, all of it. So you can complete a short online assessment with chakiatry. You can get matched with clinicians who fit your needs and schedule. your visit, get this in days. And their 800 plus clinicians accept major insurers. So you can use your already existing insurance instead of paying monthly subscriptions or out of network costs. It's perfect.

I also like that you can continue with the same provider because mental health care should not feel like starting over from the pilot episode every time. You shouldn't have to talk to someone new about this stuff. Right. You can meet with a licensed psychiatrist who takes the time to understand what's actually going on, build a personalized treatment plan just for you and support you. over time with consistent evidence-based care. Your treatment can evolve with you instead of feeling like a one-and-done appointment, which I think that is 90% of the battle. People want to feel like they're being heard.

Especially if you're talking about something that's personal and hard. Like you don't want to see somebody new every time and explain it all over again. And more than 300,000 people have already found high-quality psychiatric care through talkiatry. So head to tachiatry.com slash crime weekly to complete the short assessment and get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just. a few minutes. That's T-A-L-K-I-A-T-R-Y dot com slash crime weekly to get matched in minutes. TalkGi-A-Tri.com slash crime weekly. All right, we're back. So this knife that Dwayne Hall had sent Richard Snyder,

it appears that Snyder had actually purchased the knife for Dwayne as a gift. And he'd even had it engraved for him with a special inside joke that they shared. So it was a seven-inch black-cold steel recon tonto knife engineered from the ground up for maximum high penetration, stabbing, and piercing. Yep. It's like a military weapon. Yeah. That's basically what it's meant for. Piercing, stabbing, things like that. So the blade of the knife was engraved with the words, Dork Wharf, pointy end goes in the other guy. And according to Rick Snyder, This was a joke. It was him making fun of Dwayne Hall who used the name Dark Wolf online. Okay? We're going to talk about this whole dark wolf and this whole thing that Dwayne Hall had online

and in this weird sort of, I guess, religion or belief system that he followed. But anyways, Rick Snyder told the police that he had burned the packaging that it was sent in, and then he sewed the knife, the sheath and the bracelet into a small fabric bag before hiding the bag in a drawer in his bedroom. The items were obviously sent to the FDLE Jacksonville Lab for processing and they found Sonia's blood on Dwayne Hall's knife. Okay. So this was the murder weapon.

Yeah, I actually gave Dwayne too much credit. He is a dumb ass. He really is. And I don't know. You can't teach this level of stupidity. I thought for sure there are precious. medals in there, apparently, which makes sense because his life savings didn't really believe in the banks and he couldn't because the IRS was out looking for him. So he used precious metals

to kind of create some savings. But it does appear that he sent the murder weapon to his buddy, which again tells us two things. One, Rick knows a lot more than people may think. And he's willing to be an accomplice to this sort of stuff. He's like sewing it into a bag. He's willing to tie himself into it. And he knew what the knife was. And it also says, says that this is more than likely something Dwayne has done multiple times and probably use this knife in those other circumstances. This is his prize possession. I feel naked without it. Yep. Yep. And so this is probably his calling card, if you will. Like when he kills these people, he's using this knife. So yeah, so I take it back. I'm, I was really wrong. Dwayne is actually that

stupid. Yeah. And it's like if you're telling Rick to delete certain messages and pictures, why not delete the whole conversation where you're telling him you're sending him something that is affiliated with this storm that's about to hit while the, while the agents are calling you, like, what are you talking about here? Stephanie, here's a better idea. Throw the knife in the river. No, he loves that knife. That's my point. He's really, really dumb. He's really attached. He's willing to risk it all for this knife. But if you're willing to risk it all for the knife, at least have Rick delete all the messages of you corresponding about sending him something. No, it's, it's, you dumbass. Yeah, he's really bad at this.

Now, the silver bracelet, I still don't know whose it was. Was it Sonia's? Was it Dwayne's? Because it had three DNA profiles on it. It had Dwayne Hall's DNA profile on it, but also Sonias and someone else who hasn't been identified at this time, at least in publicly available information. But Richard Snyder did admit to handling the bracelet when he was trying to hide it. Well, that's going to be easy to figure out because family members of Sonias will be able to identify if it was hers. Yeah.

So it could be Rick Snyder's DNA, that third profile. file on the bracelet, or it could be somebody Sonia knew. I don't know. Could be gingers. I don't know. It could be gingers, man. Listen, the way they're talking, like, only talk to Ginger about this. And this is another thing that's concerning for Ginger.

Is ginger in the loop? Well, I mean, if it were just precious metals, then you could argue that she was aware of this and he could talk to her about it because it was their life savings. But when you start talking about a murder weapon... This girl died and I'm sending my knife to my friend and he's going to send it back to you in six months. Right. And so when she opens the box for her not to have questions about that knife, that would mean that she knows about it. Or to already know what it was. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. I mean, so optically does not look good for her at all. Now, just to be fair, it could be a hunting knife as well where in Ginger's mind, if she's not in on it, right, just to cover our bases, there are people out there who have knives or guns that are like their prized possession. So Ginger, that may be all she knows about this knife. doesn't automatically mean that she knows he's using it to kill people. And I just want to give her that grace unless you tell me something else. By the time six months goes by and he's been arrested for the murder of a girl and then you get a knife in the in the mail. Right. He's sent to a friend when he was being looked at for the murder of this girl. Yeah, you would think two and two. It's not just a hunting knife.

Okay. Right? That's, I agree with you. I agree with you. But if this woman had been groomed since she was 16 years old, she may be impressionable. I'll just put it that way. I'm trying to be. Impressionable, yeah, sure.

But here's the thing. Let me ask you, if she eventually comes to understand that that knife was used to kill someone, and she defends him and says, well, he was just trying to help her. Would you say the same thing? So here's the thing. I don't agree with that assessment, but we're talking about a young girl at 16 years old that was groomed by this man for 20 years. So it's not the same as you and I.

She's not a young girl anymore. So, like, yes, there's an aspect of, like, Like you were also a victim. And then there's an aspect of... Of common sense. How much at this point? Because then we could start using that excuse for everybody. I agree with you.

It's a slippery slope. Like, remember, Elizabeth Smart, right? Elizabeth Smart and that whole thing. Like, that was, did we feel any less... Did we feel bad for Wanda Barsey? Were we like, oh, she's not complicit in this at all? No, you're fair. There are different variables here.

But at minimum, I do agree with you from the perspective of right and wrong if the person that's been grooming you is killing people, you should have known that that was not okay. And that's the point where, okay, someone's been grooming me. But now I know that not only is he luring young women here to have sex with them, which you should have a problem with as his partner, but he's, he killed her. And then, and then now that's where the grooming should kind of break to a point where you're like, I got to get out of here.

I could be next. Yeah, or like, this isn't right. Right. Yeah, it does sound like there's two people who know Dwayne, like really know Dwayne. And Ginger's one of them. Ginger would be one of them. Yeah, there's two people that we know of. But here's another case, Long Island serial killer.

I'm still on the fence about that one with his wife, you know, that he was killing these women inside the home. So I don't know. She's never been charged with anything. So I guess the evidence doesn't support her having an understanding. But there are a lot of people who, feel it would be impossible for her not to know what was going on. Yeah, but do you have messages where low-out serial killer is talking to his friend and being like, I'm sending you evidence of my murder? Send it to my wife. She's the only one I trust.

There are witnesses apparently who say there were women taken to that house with with Rex Rubin and his wife and the woman was seen running out of the house that they were both inside of and that he went off. There are things there that make me, that leave me with questions. Have any victims who have survived had anything to say? about the wife, like that she was complicit or involved in anyway? It doesn't sound like it. There's been no charges against her. So she is innocent until otherwise said.

But yeah, with this whole situation, it does seem like ginger is in on a lot more than, than you would like to hear for someone who would be innocent in the whole thing. And don't tell me that you weren't aware of his extreme sexual fantasies when it came to like violence. I'm with you there. And aggression. I'm with you there. You knew that because you were. were his partner and have been having sex with him since you were 17 years old. And that's the reason he went after a younger girl because then he could pose these things as normal because she

wouldn't know better. So I think from the very beginning, Ginger knew about his proclivities when it came to BDSM and these violent sexual fantasies and participated in them, which is fine if she's a consenting adult. But when you have somebody who's maybe not so consenting and you're still making excuses for your husband's behavior, this is where I have a problem. Yeah, I'm with you. So during his police interview, Dwayne Hall refused to tell the police where Sonia's body was, but he also was asked about the whereabouts of Sonia's clothes or personal belongings since those things had not been found in the Airbnb.

And according to his phone records, after being at the spot where Sonia's body was found, Dwayne Hall had driven to Gainesville where he made a purchase at a Circle K. On surveillance video, he was seen throwing something from. the back of his vehicle onto the ground, and he also threw multiple items into a garbage can from the passenger side of his vehicle. He then drove to Coles in Gainesville, and according to Dwayne, he had taken Sonia's belongings to a donation bin that was green and white. And of course, he makes this sound like he's a good person. He was like, well, you know, she didn't need them anymore. So I thought they could go to a good, good use by somebody who could use them because she's not alive

anymore. He said he thought donating them was the good and charitable thing to do. Now, they did recover some of those items, as well as messages that Sonia attempted to send a friend while she was apparently trapped in Riddick, Florida with Dwayne Hall. We're going to talk about all of that and more, including once again, this kind of expansion onto what was Dwayne Hall into? Because he uses this pseudonym online, Dark Wolf. And he had seemed he had sort of a a strong belief, because remember he texted his friend Rick and he's like, for the love of shadows, right? For the love of shadows. They were into some weird, like a nubis religion thing, like the Egyptian god of death thing. And it wasn't just him.

It was some of his friends, too. So now we have this kind of deeper layer where it's not just a bunch of creepy men luring women to them so that they can kill them. It's there's some like death cult aspect to it that they believe that and that's why the specific knife was so important because it was involved in like that ritualistic kind of I don't know behavior that they were doing and then we're going to talk about also the fact that there's a lot of cases that sort of kind of match sonias in in that area of Florida and then also what we got to look at Ohio too right because that's where Rick Snyder and Ginger and Dwayne were from.

And we also have to look at what Ginger's saying now about Dwayne after everything has come out and she knows what he did. So that is what we're going to talk about in the third and final part of the Sonia X-LB series next week. There is still plenty to discuss. Yeah, this is a horrific story. And I feel like it's going to get a little worse as we hear more details. But I do agree with you. this case, this incident appears to only be scratching the surface of something much more sinister, much, much deeper. And I'm interested to hear what else is uncovered as this

investigation unfolds. That will have to wait until next week. As always, guys, we appreciate you being here. If you're watching on YouTube, please like, comment, subscribe. If you're listening on audio, we would really appreciate it if you take five seconds just to rate and review the really does help with the algorithm to get a scene by more people. And we would appreciate that. It doesn't cost you anything, but it really helps us out. As always, we will be back next week. Until then, stay safe out there.

We'll see you soon. Bye.