Criminal - An Impossible Crime

Episode Date: February 24, 2023

Daniel Taylor was 17 years old when he was arrested for a 1992 double homicide in Chicago. But Daniel had an alibi. He was in jail at the time of the murders. Say hello on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. Sign up for our occasional newsletter, The Accomplice. Follow the show and review us on Apple Podcasts: iTunes.com/CriminalShow. Listen back through our archives at youtube.com/criminalpodcast.  We also make This is Love and Phoebe Reads a Mystery. Artwork by Julienne Alexander. Check out our online shop.  Episode transcripts are posted on our website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's BotoxCosmetic.com. That's BotoxCosmetic.com. This episode contains descriptions of violence. Please use discretion. Daniel? Oh, how you doing? Hi, this is Phoebe. How you doing, Phoebe? I'm fine. Thank you very much for doing this. Ah, no problem. I love sharing my story. How about if we just start with you introducing yourself? Okay. How you doing? My name is Daniel Taylor. I was born and raised in Chicago. I ended up going into DCFS, Department of Children and Family Services. And so I ended up getting moved around a lot from foster home to foster home, from group home to group home.

Daniel Taylor was first removed from his mother's custody when he was eight and officially became a ward of the state in 1986 when he was 11. You know, you stay in one place for a while, you get to know the people, you get to grow a love for them and an appreciation for them, and next thing you know, you just snatched up and moved to another place because something changed or the funding wasn't coming through on time

so the place had to be closed and so to get moved around so much, it had its pluses as well um I got to meet a lot of different people I had I got a chance to see a lot of different things experience a lot of different things other than what I was used to in the hood um and this bad side was that I always made good good friends and end up having to leave them. That was, for me, that was the roughest. So were you trying to go to school as you were being moved around? Oh, yes.

Every time I went to a foster home or a group home, it was mandatory that they got you in school right away. So I've been to quite a few schools in my young days, a lot. It started all over again, and I'm the new guy, and I'm trying to figure out the difference between this new place and the old place and try to find similarities where I can find a way to connect. But I knew it wouldn't last long because at some point, you know, something always went, you know, whether it was they was closing the place down or new people was coming in or I just had to end up moving to

another group home or foster home, you know, and after a while you kind of get used to it. You know, you learn about, you know, taking numbers down and staying in contact with them like that, but you know, it's nothing like being around somebody that you sleep next to in a dorm. It was a stress. He estimates he lived in more than 12 different foster homes and facilities and says he joined a gang that some of his friends were part of, the Vice Lords. Late in the summer and fall of 1992, he was arrested five times,

twice for theft, and three times for what was described as mob action. And then, on November 16th, he was arrested again. On November 16th, I was in the house asleep When one of my friends came and woke me up And he was like I just got into a fight with this guy

And he was bigging at me And so I got up We went to the park so I could fight the guy Because he felt I was roughly the same size as the guy In my opinion the guy because he felt I was, you know, roughly the same size as the guy. In my opinion, the guy wasn't big. He was just tall, but that's neither here nor there. So me and this guy got to fighting. And when I was fighting him, it was a lady hitting me in my back, in the back of my head.

So I'm like, I looked back to see who was doing it, and I realized it was his mother. And so I stopped. I stopped fighting him, and everybody got to walking away. And as we were walking away, the police was riding down the street and ended up grabbing me, putting me on a car, patting me down, searching me. And they were about to let me go until the guy that I was fighting, his mother, came over. They're like, no, that's him. That's the one that was fighting my son. And so I ended up going to jail that night.

According to police records, at 6.45 p.m., he was arrested for disorderly conduct and held in police custody for just over three hours before being released on bond. So when I got out, you know, in Chicago, when they take you to jail, they take your shoestrings, your belt, anything that you might possibly harm yourself with. And so when they let you, when they release you, they give you your property back. And so I sat on the stairs and laced my shoes up. Because the area that the police took me to, at that time it was a gang-ridden area. I mean, right around the police station, too. There was gangs all around that station. And it was a rival gang to what I was at that time.

And so I knew that when I walked out them doors, I had better be able to run. Once I laced up my shoes, I walked out them doors, and I started running. First, it was more like a slow jog. And then when you get close to certain blocks or alleys you want to pick your speed up in case somebody recognized you that's from a different organization than what I was in at that time. Daniel had been staying at his friend's mother's house and he says that when he got there he could tell that something had happened. I could tell the house had been ran through, or what do you want to call it, raided, because the doors was torn off, you know, inside the house, everything was spruced about. His friend's mother's name was Andrea Phillips, but Daniel says people called her Cookie. And she told me that I had to get out. Because you had been arrested?

No, I think it was because the house had been raided. And her stuff, you know, when they raid your house, they tear everything up. They pull your couches off. They pull the drawers all the way out, taking them off the rack. They flip your mattress. They unzip the pillow coverings, the couch pillow coverings. I mean, they just really, like, mess your house up real bad. The police said they had found a small amount of cocaine. Cookie Phillips said she believed the drugs belonged to Daniel.

She told him he had to leave. So now I'm faced with another task of finding out where I'm going to sleep and where I'm going to go. He remembers he walked to an emergency shelter he knew was nearby. And so it was a short walk, and I know by me being a ward of the state with DCFS that if I went in there, that they'll take me in. And at some point, if I stay there there, that they would take me in. And at some point, if I stayed there long enough, they would find me placement somewhere. And what placement means

is a group home or foster home in which you can stay long term. Two weeks after he was arrested for fighting, he remembers he was staying at a youth shelter. His younger brother was there too. And they had, like, dorm rooms with, at that time,

like five to six beds in one room. And my brother was, you know, we both, of course, we wanted to be in the same room, so our beds were next to each other. And I'm woken up. So when I looked and I seen that it was some white people saying my name, because at that group home, it was mostly blacks. So if you seen a white person, it would alert you to something, you know,

something's not right, something's going on. And so when they woke me up saying my name, they told me I needed to get dressed. I got up. I got dressed. As they was walking me out, I'm actually like, what's going on? I even asked a staff member, like, what's going on? And they're like, you need to go with them. And I'm like, for what?

And so I asked the officer, like, what is all this about? And they didn't say anything until we got in the car. When we got in the car, I'm like, man, what's going on? And one of the officers was like, man, you know what you did? And I'm like, what? I'm like, I ain't done nothing. And then he punched me in my chest and told me to sit back. Did anyone answer you on the whole ride, or did he just say sit back and be quiet?

Once he hit me and told me to sit back and be quiet, I didn't say anything else. I just sat there. I knew I hadn't done anything, so I just knew, like, once they, you know, once they did tell me what was really going on, I explained, and I'd be home. I'd be back at the shelter. When I first got there, they threw me in a room, and they cuffed me to a wall. And they left out. And when they came back in, they came in, they said, hey, man, what's going on? And, you know, I might be paraphrasing, but the end result was they wanted to know what I knew about a murder. And they said that I was involved in it.

They told me certain things that one of the other guys that was locked up had said I supposedly had did. And so they pretty much was telling me things I did and things I supposedly did. I'm like, some murders? I don't know nothing about no murders. I mean, it took me shock. I couldn't even believe they was even asking me or questioning me about that. That was not my lifestyle.

I wasn't the guy that was riding around toting guns and shooting guns. That wasn't me. I told them, man, I didn't have nothing to do with this. I didn't do this. Who's ever telling y'all this, that line? I don't know anything about a murder and uh one of them got mad and we you know we got to cussing at each other and

and um one of them hit me in my lower back with one of them uh old school flashlights i don't see them much around no more like i used to back in the day you remember remember them long, big black ones? And, you know, they gave, they punched me in my body a little bit to intimidate me. And one of them even told me that, oh, he going to enjoy this because I have dark skin, so my bruises won't show as easy. A man and a woman had been shot and killed in a second-floor apartment on Chicago's north side. Daniel says that the police seemed convinced that he and a number of other young black men were involved. I was blindsided.

You know, I've never taken a life. So for them to step to me with questions about murder, it was like I couldn't believe it. I was sitting there in total shock, like there's no way. That's impossible. And I just, it's a shock that I don't believe I have the vocabulary to explain fully. You ended up signing a confession. Yes. Why? Me signing a confession is the worst time in my life that I can picture ever. It's just being a man and standing up for yourself.

And that was one of my lowest points ever in my life. I've been hit before and didn't fight back. I've been in fights where I had to run. But what they did to me, the fear that they invoked in me as a kid was outrageous. Like, I was frightened. They had been beating on me. They kept telling me what I did. They told me I was going to sign that confession. I knew how they worked. So I did what they wanted me to do. I ain't got nobody that I felt I could reach out to

to stop what they were doing from happening. And so I signed the confession. I repeated what they told me that I suppose the head did. Then they called the state's attorney there. So did they kind of tell you what to say in the confession? They basically gave me the information of what happened. Also, they brought one of the guys in

that they had at the station to say that I was with him. When he walked into the interrogation room, they like to say, what's that new thing they like to say now? Conference room. No, that was not a conference room. to say now? Conference room.

No, that was not a conference room. That was an interrogation room. When they brought him in there and I'm looking at him like, man, what's going on? And look in his eyes. I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it. What happened after you signed the confession?

I sat in that interrogation room for a while And at some point one of the officers came And took me down to a holding cell And on our way down I'm telling him like, man, I didn't do this, bro I didn't take these people out, I'm not a killer Daniel says that as they walked down to the holding cell, he realized something about the date of the murders.

You know, and that's what hit me on my way down to the holding cell. Like, wait a minute, man. I had caught that something. I was locked up. The murders had taken place on November 16th, the same day Daniel was arrested for fighting in the park. He had been arrested at 6.45 p.m. The murders happened at 8.43 p.m.

And Daniel wasn't released until 10 o'clock that night. I was like, man, call down there. They should have some records or something, man. I was locked up. I know I was locked up on that day. I said I got locked up for fighting that day. But no one listened. I'm Phoebe Judge.

This is Criminal. We'll be right back. This month, they recommend Wondery's Ghost Story, a seven-part series that follows journalist Tristan Redman as he tries to get to the bottom of a ghostly presence in his childhood home. His investigation takes him on a journey involving homicide detectives, ghost hunters, and even psychic mediums, and leads him to a dark secret about his own family. Check out Ghost Story, a series essential pick, completely ad-free on Apple Podcasts. Hey, it's Scott Galloway, and on our podcast, Pivot, we are bringing you a special series about the basics of artificial intelligence. We're answering all your questions. What should you use it for? What tools are right for you? And what privacy issues should you ultimately watch out for? And to help us out, we are joined by Kylie Robeson, the senior AI reporter for The Verge, to give you a primer on how to integrate AI into

your life. So tune into AI Basics, How and When to Use AI, a special series from Pivot sponsored by AWS, wherever you get your podcasts. In December of 1992, 17-year-old Daniel Taylor was charged, along with seven other young black men. And they charged us all with murder. Eight of us. Tell me about the trial. How long did you wait before the trial? The trial took maybe three years, two years and two years and some months. Daniel says he felt hopeful because the judge had granted him a bond, so he didn't have to spend that whole time waiting in jail. The judge gave me an eye bond on a double murder home invasion. That doesn't happen. So at that point, I'm thinking like, okay, he got to know

that, you know, I ain't do this. You know, he got to know this. I ain't do nothing. I had nothing to do with this. Were you each tried individually? No, we were tried jointly, but we were broke up into like teams. It was like two guys. It was eight of us all together, so they broke it up in twos. And I ended up going to trial with Dennis Mixon. What was the evidence that the prosecution had against you? That confession. That's it.

No witnesses, no fingerprints, nothing. Nothing. They still going to get up there and give that speech that you did it. Did your lawyer at any point say, wait, no, no, no, he was in jail at the time this happened? Did anyone bring up the fact that it was impossible for you to commit the murder because you were behind bars? Yes, that was brought up through the whole process that I was locked up. When they found out I was locked up, instead of them doing the right thing, which was to let me go, they tripled down. They had an officer send in a report months later saying he seen me at a certain time.

It was crazy. The prosecution presented testimony from a police officer, Sean Glinsky, who, along with Officer Michael Birdie, had filed a report claiming that they had seen Daniel Taylor on a street near where the murders took place around 9.30. 9.30 was about 45 minutes after the murders, and half an hour before records indicated

that Daniel had been released from police custody for disorderly conduct. Officer Glinsky testified that he had heard about a shooting on his police radio, and that after he arrived to the area, he and other officers followed a young person who was running into an apartment. That was the apartment of Cookie Phillips, where Daniel Taylor had been staying. According to Officer Glinsky, he left the apartment and ran into Daniel. He testified that he asked Daniel to help him find one of Cookie Phillips' sons, which he said Daniel did, and that they drove around for 10 or 15

minutes before dropping Daniel off at the emergency shelter. Daniel's defense attorneys presented proof that Daniel was in police custody at the time of the murders, testimony from people who were on duty that night, and the bond slip indicating that Daniel was locked up until 10 p.m. But the prosecution suggested that that was simply a paperwork error, that the bond slip could have been completed after Daniel had already left and stamped with the wrong time. When you were sitting there in the courtroom

hearing police officers say this stuff, that you weren't locked up at the time, how did you keep yourself calm? Certain aspects of trial, they use a vocabulary that's beyond, or that was beyond my vocabulary. Because they'll say things like, as to the day that Taylor, that you seen Taylor,

judge, and then they'll pause and judge, I would like to enter evidence, and they'll blah, blah, blah the number and the the codes for it and then they'll go back and say I would like to call your attention to such and such day and do you recollect that day and I'm like you know recollect I didn't know what that word meant so I'm you know I end up sitting in trial just looking at what was going on more so than what was being said because I couldn't understand it. Was your family there? Was anybody there supporting you? Not all the time.

My little brother, he came to court a few times. But outside of him coming, I was, no, I didn't have any family there. What do you remember about the jury? Anything? The jury is, I don't really remember much about them. I do remember jury selections for some reason, because some of this, how the jury selection is done is, and the questions that's asked, like, it was one juror that the judge asked, and the judge said, do you believe that as Taylor sits there that he is innocent and must be proven guilty. And so this lady says, yes, I believe that he's innocent until proven guilty. But if an officer get up there and say that he did something or that he did it, I'm going to convict him. And I'm like, wait, that don't sound right.

But the judge was questioning. So we were sitting there just looking at the whole thing unfold. And the judge informed her, like, no, that is not how it worked. You can't not do that. You have to listen to the evidence and make a decision based off the evidence, the totality of the evidence, not just because the officer said he did it. She believed the police no matter what. No matter what, she would not be in the fold to follow the law in that aspect. And so she was not chosen. That's just something that always stuck with me because it's like, how can you just, you know, I'm not trying to make this a race thing, but it was a black woman that just could not any reason, look at the evidence and make a decision. But that if the police had said that I did it, she was ready to convict me.

And I think that's why I remember that moment so much, the way that I do. We'll be right back. What software do you use at work? The answer to that question is probably more complicated than you want it to be. The average U.S. company deploys more than 100 apps, and ideas about the work we do can be radically changed by the tools we use to do it. So what is enterprise software anyway?

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Stay focused on what's important to you with Noom's psychology and biology-based approach. Sign up for your trial today at Noom.com. During Daniel Taylor's trial, prosecutors didn't present any physical evidence against him. There wasn't any. None of the fingerprints at the scene matched his. None of the DNA matched. And there was no murder weapon. The prosecution spent a lot of time working to show that Daniel Taylor could have been at the crime scene

and not in police custody at the time of the murders. They put police officer Sean Glinsky on the stand to testify that he'd seen and even spoken to Daniel near where the murders had happened. But Daniel's defense attorney showed that the paperwork filed by Officer Glinsky and Officer Michael Birdie, claiming that they'd seen Daniel, had been submitted one month after the murders, and just under two weeks after Daniel's confession, and that it had not been signed off on by a supervisor. Daniel's lawyer told the jury,

There isn't one reasonable doubt in this case. The whole case is one big doubt. The jury only deliberated for a few hours. One juror later told a reporter, quote, a couple people were skeptical for maybe a couple minutes, but once we figured it out, it was pretty easy. Another said, quote, the only piece that didn't seem to fit was that stuff that he'd been in jail at the time. He could have walked out the back door for all we knew. There was a juror that was interviewed and he, they were asked, he was asked, what was like the defining moment that made you feel like Taylor was guilty? The response, and I might be off a word or two, was basically they believed that I was released early that night.

Now, mind you, their theory was I was released early or I snuck out. Now, imagine I'm 17, just made 17. I'm a I'm a couple of months into being 17. And I'm in I'm locked up in the police station for a fight. that I snuck out, killed two people, and snuck back in without being seen or spotted. A 17-year-old whose shoestrings you took, whose belt you took, so that he may not harm himself, snuck out to go kill two people and snuck back in so I could face the fight charge, that doesn't make any sense. You're going to sneak out to go do something that horrible, but sneak back in? That anybody would sneak back in.

If you're saying I'm smart enough to sneak out of here without being seen, spotted, or any damage being reported by the cell, inside the cell, that I got to be some kind of genius. So if you're giving me that much credit to be able to sneak out, why not give me the rest of the credit not to come back? But I pulled the snuck back in. Like, I snuck back in, really. Daniel Taylor was sentenced to life in prison He was 19

That was a day that I really lost Connection with the world Physically Emotionally Mentally Like I really believed that that day I found out

What existing means and not living. That very day. There's so many things going through my mind. One of them being, it's just total shutdown. And when I mean total shutdown, everything that I can think of came rushing to me. And at a split second, it just vanished. And I felt nothing. I could connect to nothing.

I couldn't understand half of the things people were saying once I left. I was sitting there trying to watch TV when I got back to the deck that I was on. I took a shower, changed from my court clothes into the prison clothes, and I went out to what's called a day room. And I sat there, and I tried to watch the TV. And you know how you can get into a show or a movie? I felt zero, nothing. Nothing. I couldn't focus.

It was a pain that just made me dull, unfocused. Like I just couldn't connect to anything or anyone. Were you scared knowing that you were going to prison, 19 years old? Someone who'd been convicted of two murders? I was more so scared of the natural life that they gave me, of having to serve the rest of my natural life in prison. I was more afraid of that than the actual jail itself in that aspect. To never again, never again just get up and walk out the house because I feel like it. I was more afraid of that in that aspect.

When they transferred me from Cook County to Jolliess Prison, most of the time they have like, it looked like a school bus and you in the seat and they got your hands cuffed up. I wasn't on that kind of bus. I was in a van and they had me shackled from around my waist to my hands. My feet were shackled and they had this like doggy chain that's looped around my waist and they hold on to that like you're a dog. And when they put me in the van, I was cuffed to the floor of that van. And again, my hands are shackled together. Also, my feet are shackled together. And the chain that he was using to hold me or to walk me, if you will, that was chained to the floor. And I was driven to Jolliess Prison like that. And at that very moment, I knew that the type of time I had was different than what those guys that was getting on those school buses had.

They had outdates. I didn't have one. And that realization sunk in so quick. Next time, how Daniel Taylor finally got someone to listen to him. Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr

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