Criminal - Jessica and the Bunny Ranch

Episode Date: June 7, 2019

In our last episode we spoke Cecilia Gentili, a trans Latina who worked for many years as an undocumented sex worker. Today, we get two more views of sex work in America. We speak with a high-end escort in New York City, and take a trip to one of the only legal brothels in the country – the Moonlite Bunny Ranch, where we speak with Alice Little. Say hello on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. Sign up for our occasional newsletter, The Accomplice. Follow the show and review us on Apple Podcasts: iTunes.com/CriminalShow. We also make This is Love and Phoebe Reads a Mystery. Artwork by Julienne Alexander. Check out our online shop.  Episode transcripts are posted on our website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Please use discretion. I pay more in taxes than the average person makes us a salary in the year. So, um, I do, I do well. This is a woman we're calling Jessica. That's not her real name. She's an independent escort based in New York City, and she charges $1,000 an hour for her time with a two-hour minimum.

I would love to see, like, the financial data. Like, how much is this industry actually generating? How much are we paying in taxes? You know, I pay taxes, but it does not say sex worker or escort on my tax return. How do you pay taxes? I file as a consultant. I have a CPA who knows what I do, which is great.

It makes it a lot easier to not have to justify certain expenses and things. He's also worked with other sex workers. That's how I got the recommendation. And actually, I want to pay taxes. I want to have clean money so I can do things with my money. You can't, you know, cash is great if you want to go shopping, but you can't invest in your 401k or your brokerage account or buy a house with cash. She's typically paid by an online transfer to her LLC. If it's a very large amount, clients wire the money. And when she does accept cash, she has specific instructions.

Put it in an envelope. Don't hand it to her directly. Put it in a book or in a gift bag. I have had clients, like, you know, we'll meet in the lounge of a hotel or something, and they'll very indiscreetly, you know, hand me an envelope or even just cash or something. And I, that's, you know, someone's, that could be, that to me is like, okay, this feels like this could be a sting. If someone's watching that happen, that's like I'm incriminating myself. So I'll just walk away from that.

But it doesn't happen too often. Is there any price negotiation or are your prices set? This is what the hourly rate is. These are what my requirements are. Like it or don't like it. The only negotiation for me is with multi-day trips. You know, if we're going somewhere great that I want to go to and, you know, if it's for a lot of days, I'm not going to charge the same day rate for everything. But for me, no, my – this is why I like being an escort, not a sugar baby or anything else.

It removes – I don't have any hustle. I tried stripping for a little bit. It is, I just, I don't have that. It's much easier for me to have this website and those are my prices and take them or leave them. My whole purpose is to, you know, maximize income and minimize time. So the work smarter, not harder sort of thing. But I have, basically, I have a monthly goal for myself, and when I meet that goal, then I don't take on any more work. A book came out last year called Revolting Prostitutes, written by two sex workers, Molly Smith and Juno Mack. In the introduction, they write,

Sex workers are everywhere. We're your neighbors. We brush past you on the street. Our kids go to the same schools as yours. We're behind you at the self-service checkout with baby food and a bottle of Pinot Grigio. Although we're everywhere, most people know little about the reality of our lives. I'm Phoebe Judge.

This is Criminal. Jessica became curious about sex work when she was 20. She was in college, and she and her roommate would watch a show on HBO called Cat House, a reality TV show about one of the only legal brothels in the United States, the Bunny Ranch. We'll visit the Bunny Ranch later in the show. Jessica says she was fascinated by the whole thing. Yeah, so I was living with my roommate, and we would watch these shows, and then one day she went on Craigslist and went to the erotic services section back when that existed and

she found the world of erotic massage which is essentially you get a hotel room and give them a massage and then usually some form of a happy ending and she's like I could do that and I was like I could do that and we felt safe because we were together and she eventually

you know decided to stop doing it. And I decided to sort of forge forward. And ultimately, I became an escort. When your friend decided not to continue on with the work after a while, but you did, what did you like about it? What intrigued you and what were you hoping to do next? I did like the sort of, you know, adventurous component of it. It felt very like I was part of this underworld that, you know, no one really knew about.

And that was exciting and thrilling. I guess I didn't really have a plan. I was going to school. It was a great way to make, I mean, I could make a, you know, I could wait tables and make what I would make in a week in like an hour or two doing this erotic massage work. So that was obviously a huge incentive. Jessica's next step was to go back to Craigslist and begin researching escort agencies. She says she was curious. So she wrote to an agency and set up a phone call with the

manager. It was a woman. Jessica said she felt comfortable, so they arranged a meeting. And it was just more of an opportunity for her to sort of look at me, and she asked me, do you know what the work is, without being explicit? And I said yes. And she said, great, what name do you want to go by? And that was it. And then she had a well-established business, so she had a lot of clients. And I only saw people that she had worked with before. So that was one of my rules at the time was no new clients, because I felt safer knowing that they had seen other women in her agency. And at that point, it was, she got, I think, about 25%, and I kept the rest. It varied a little bit, but my rate then was between 260 and 300 an hour, which I thought was fantastic. And yeah, it seemed like a good thing. I did that for a pretty long time just because it was easy. Eventually, Jessica realized she could go out on her own

and work independently. Leaving the escort agency meant that she'd have to do all of her own marketing, and she wouldn't have anyone to help her find or vet prospective clients. But it also meant she would get to keep all of the money. For the last five years, she's been working for herself. But tell me about the screening process and how important it is.

It is very important for me. I will not meet someone unless they follow my protocol exactly. I'm lucky enough to be able to be a stickler about that. But the screening process in general is some combination of asking for references, which means, who have you seen before? So they'll give me, you know, I ask for two usually, and they'll give me the names and websites of some women that they've met. At this point, I've been in the industry long enough where I at least recognize a lot of people on a visual basis seeing their name. But, you know, if I don't, I go to their website. I suss out if the references seem legitimate.

You know, do they have a presence? Do they have a social media presence? Are they on Twitter? Are they interacting with other people? Does it seem like people have met them? So I sort of have to vet the reference. And then if they've seen personal friends of mine or people I know well enough in the industry, that's usually enough for me personally. But sometimes they don't have a reference or just don't feel great about them.

And so then I ask for their employment information. And that generally means I have them email me from their work account to an unpublished inbox of mine. So say it's, you know, Goldman Sachs or something. So then there's sort of like this paper trail and it's, you know, it's not associated with me directly, but it's sort of like, it creates a sense of accountability. And it also proves that this is the person I'm speaking to. You know, I have on my website, sending me a LinkedIn profile or telling me to Google you is not the same as identification, verification. You can say you're Warren Buffett, but that doesn't mean you're him. So I need to sort of suss that out. And then occasionally I will ask for a photo ID and a

selfie just to like compare the photos. And that's sort of the overview of screening. So you work together. So when you're saying references, you're saying references from other women who have experience with him. Correct, yes. So they will tell me, you know, most of the time it's just like, yes, I've seen him, he's safe, or no, I haven't, this is a fake reference. Sometimes they'll go into more detail. They can tell me about his, you know, his hygiene if he was late. But, you know, a lot of our work

is networking too. We work together. We offer what we call in the industry duos where, you know, two of us will see a client together or trios or moresomes. So yeah, we refer clients to each other. We share them. I always say that a networking trumps advertising any day. You know, it's a weird world anyways because of all the stigma and legal issues attached to it. So having a community is so important for me. Does everyone in your life know about your work and the industry you're in? No, most people do. All of my friends do. Most of my family does. There's sort of this, there's a bit of a don't ask, don't tell policy with, like my parents, they found out a couple of years ago. I was outed and word got back to them. And when they sort of confronted me about it, I did sort of a,

you know, neither confirm nor deny. My sister knows. She is wonderful and very supportive. And so she's navigated some of the, you know, when I first moved to New York, my parents were like, why did she do that again? And she was just sort of like, let's just agree that, you know, we love her and we don't ask questions. And they're like, okay. And I'm not close enough with my, with the people who don't um that it's worth it for me but everyone that I like truly care about and have like a great relationship with definitely know what are questions that you hate being asked when you tell someone for the first time um one of my least favorite questions is have i asked the weirdest you have not now is uh

you have not is uh what's the weirdest thing or the grossest thing or you know invoking some kind of trauma they're trying to get me to share a trauma with them and i always find that to be a horrible question. And it's indicative of like the stigma, the idea of what people think sex work is, I guess. I really hate that question. Even clients, even people who are, you know, involved in the industry sometimes, they can have a limited perspective. I had a client who said like, oh oh, but, like, how do you date? And that's also actually a pretty horrible question, as though because of my work, I am undateable. And I, you know, I was like, actually, you know, I'm married.

And just, like, if there was a, if you could put a visual of, like, you know, the head exploding, that was what this guy looked like. And he was silent for, like, a minute, and I sort of poked him and joked. I was like, yeah, it's a little surprising, I guess. And he's like, I just, I can't, I can't imagine. And then he didn't want to see me again because I was married, which was also sort of interesting and implies this sort of like, you know, I'm owned by another man. So they can't see me even though I, they intellectually know I see many men is my work. Yeah, I don't know. Will you tell me about your clients? Who are you spending time with? What is the range? There's definitely a range. There's an average, but there's a range. My youngest client was a 19-year-old who hired me and another girl. He was a retail manager of some clothing store. I don't know how he got the finances to see us, but I'll never forget him. He was sweet.

And my oldest client was probably my first client. He was well into his 80s, if not early 90s. But I would say my average client is someone in his early 50s, white, upper middle class, to wealthy. I mean, I'm not seeing the uber wealthy, but certainly I have clients who have given me six figures a year cumulatively. And, yeah, they just, they, some of them are pretty dedicated to me and don't see anyone else. Some of them see me and a couple of my friends. Some of them are what we call hobbyists in the industry where they want to meet a bunch of different girls and have different experiences. You know, you have to deal with a lot of ego. You have to deal with a lot of unnavigated water sometimes for people if they're new to the world, or even

if they're not, they're just new to you and they're used to things a certain way. And, you know, once the clock is up for me, I have like budgeted my resources and my energy for that time. It's a lot of work, but I love it. I always feel really energized after having a session. She says she's working at a level now where she doesn't seek many new clients. She has regulars and dedicated income coming in each month. She travels for work, sometimes many times in a month. But traveling internationally can cause problems.

A few years ago, she was traveling from New York to Canada. She landed at midnight, and when she got to immigration, they were waiting for her. They had her website printed out. They showed it to her and said, this is you. They detained her for eight hours and then sent her back to New York. She was prohibited from going back to Canada for a year. Jessica is an advocate for the decriminalization of sex work. The full removal of criminal penalties for people both selling and buying sex. Decriminalization bills have been introduced in Maine and Massachusetts.

Opponents say that creating this legal path for sex work will encourage sex trafficking. Amnesty International, the United Nations, and the World Health Organization have all recommended decriminalization of consensual sex work. But at the moment, there's only one place in the United States where people can sell sex services legally. The legal brothels of rural Nevada. The law is tricky. It's regulated by county. Brothels are not legal all over the state.

They're prohibited in counties that include Las Vegas and Reno. But rural counties with a population under 700,000 get to decide for themselves whether or not to allow brothels. Oh, and here's our first sign that says, bunnies at play. It's like a road sign, but there are two rabbits on top of each other, and it says bunnies at play. We visited the Moonlight Bunny Ranch. These are tumbleweeds? Is this what a tumbleweed is? attention, and they call these series essentials. This month, they recommend Wondery's Ghost Story, a seven-part series that follows journalist Tristan Redman as he tries to get to the bottom of a ghostly presence in his childhood home. His investigation takes him on a journey involving

homicide detectives, ghost hunters, and even psychic mediums, and leads him to a dark secret about his own family. Check out Ghost Story, a series essential pick, completely ad-free on Apple Podcasts. Hey, it's Scott Galloway, and on our podcast, Pivot, we are bringing you a special series about the basics of artificial intelligence. We're answering all your questions. What should you use it for? What tools are right for you? And what privacy issues should you ultimately watch out for?

And to help us out, we are joined by Kylie Robeson, the senior AI reporter for The Verge, to give you a primer on how to integrate AI into your life. So, tune into AI Basics, How and When to Use AI, a special series from Pivot sponsored by AWS, wherever you get your podcasts. Well, my name is Alice Little, and I'm a legal sex worker here at the Moonlight Bunny Ranch. What is the Moonlight Bunny Ranch? The Moonlight Bunny Ranch is a legal brothel

out in one of the rural counties of Nevada. We're located in Moundhouse, Nevada, which is the unincorporated adjacent town to Carson City, Nevada, about 45 minutes away from Reno, so not completely desolate. The Moonlight Bunny Ranch looks like an old Wild West building that's been painted pink. You press a buzzer at the gate. After being buzzed in, we were greeted by a very big man wearing an HBO hat. He handed us brochures and asked if we were there to see anyone in particular. There's a living room and a bar with a pink neon sign that says Bunny Bar.

Alice Little has worked here since 2017 and is often described as the highest-earning legal sex worker in the country. She was born in Ireland, in a big family, and grew up in New York City and on Long Island. She worked as a jockey at Belmont Racetrack for a little while. She's 4 feet 8 inches tall. She says she's always been curious about sex, everything about it. Her parents never gave her the so-called sex talk, so she says she learned a lot from the internet. She became especially interested in BDSM. When I was living in New York City as an adult on my own, I had to, of course, have roommates, like so many do when you live in New York City and are fresh out of college. You can't afford anything. So myself and my multiple roommates were sharing a space together. Come to find out

that one of them was employed by their parents' private BDSM dungeon in New York City. Like, this is fresh out of Fifty Shades here. I was like, what? You mean your parents own a secret sex dungeon? I want in. And I nagged my roommate until I was eventually given a front desk position. And eventually I was given the responsibility of coordinating the education schedule. So I was on the phone with educators all across the country setting up all of these different classes and well I was given the opportunity to get this world-class kink education from all of these people flying in from all over the world and eventually I was asked to teach a class of my own for the dungeon one person saw me present and invited me to speak at another conference, and so I was invited somewhere else,

and before long, I was eventually invited to the BDSM conference in Rome. Really crazy stuff, and through that avenue, I came across another sex educator that just so happened to be employed at a little place known as the Moonlight Bunny Ranch. She shared her experiences at this location with me and I was all in. It pretty much was a 72-hour decision from the time that I thought about applying, from the time that I booked my first plane ticket to come out and do a two-week tour. Had you known about the Bunny Ranch growing up? I certainly had an idea. I may or may not have snuck out of bed when I was a child to watch the HBO Cat House series, pleading the fifth here. Don't want to get myself in trouble.

Love you, Mom. But, oh, I definitely knew what the Bunny Ranch was, and I was like, ooh, I remember that place. And I wanted to be a part of that. I wanted to be a part of that. I wanted to be a part of the experience. What was it like when you first got here? Tell me about the two-week tour. One of the things that the ranch does to help the ladies get acclimated to their new career

is to partner them up with a more experienced lady who kind of acts as her big sister and mentor. She helps you negotiate your first few experiences, learn about the different experiences that you can choose to offer, as well as let you know what your rights are as a legal sex worker. Where are we sitting right now? Where are we right now? We are in my private suite on the Bunny Ranch property, which is located slightly off of the main house. Because I'm available by appointment only, I don't need to hear the lineup bell, which is how the ladies know that we have company in the parlor. Alice Little appears to have some kind of seniority around here.

She only sees one client a day. She has two horses that live at the ranch. Her suite is away from the main building because she doesn't participate in the lineup. So what a lineup is, is means that company has come into the parlor and is looking to mix and mingle with all of the currently available ladies.

A bell is pressed to let the ladies know that, hey, we have company. The ladies then come out from their rooms or wherever they are on the property out to the parlor where they all stand in a row with their hands clasped behind their back and go down one by one introducing themselves by name. So if I were in line up, I'd say, hi, my name's Alice Little. At that point, the gentleman or gentlewoman is then encouraged to reach out to the lady of his or her choosing and then take a tour of the property. That's where we then go and explore the bar and parlor area. I'll typically share with them where the lady's kitchen is, introduce them to my horses. After we go through the tour, we then return back to the lady's room where she sits down with her guest and talks about what

they would like to do with their time together and how long they would like to spend together. Keep in mind that the lady chooses to take that gentleman on tour. If she's picked by someone that she's not comfortable with, she's able to do a warm handoff to another co-worker and excuse herself politely from the situation. Every woman that works at the Bunny Ranch has to register with the county sheriff's office. And you can't register to work in a legal brothel if you have a criminal record. The women are also required by law to be tested for STIs. According to Nevada law, sexual services and money may only be discussed in person, at the brothel. Rates cannot be posted online, or discussed online, or by phone.

It all must happen in person. So, for instance, if a guest chooses one of the sex workers from the lineup, they go back to her room and negotiate. When a price is agreed upon, they go to see the Bunny Ranch cashier, called the hooker-booker. The industry standard at this time is a 50-50 contractual split between the legal sex worker and the brothel. Additionally, each brothel location charges a menial amount of money per day, kind of a room and board expense. It covers your lights,

your electric, food, the laundry, etc. In 2018, a former madam, T.J. Moore, told The New Yorker that the brothel keeps a close tally of every expense, every condom, tampon, and hamburger patty. So are your rates, is every woman's rates different? Oh yes, every single lady is an independent contractor. As such, everyone's rates are different. Alice Little has said she aims to bring in $84,000 a month, including at least one overnight client, for which she charges $20,000.

She says most of the time her clients are men, but not always. I've recently started seeing single, straight women that are interested in learning more about their bodies. They've never been taught how to pleasure themselves, how to shop for a sex toy, how do I actually please my partner in the bedroom? Those are the kinds of questions that single women are coming to me with, and I'm making experience happen for them that are more educationally focused

or more exploration focused if they're instead coming here to learn about their own bodies. It's incredible. We see men that are as young as the age of 18 and all the way into their 80s. We see couples. We see gentlemen that are virgins who have never had sex before. And we also see individuals that have maybe lost their partner that are widows after their spouses passed away. There really is no stereotype for who is a client of a legal sex worker. I always joke that like I'm a magician, I make fantasies come to life.

And this is the unique space that so long as you're comfortable communicating with me we can make something really cool happen. Do you think that some of us are more open than others? Absolutely so. Many people learn how to feel about sex from their parents or from religious leaders. We base our perceptions of how we should feel about sex and intimacy based off of how our parents react. When you get new information or learn something, you have to be able to re-evaluate what your opinion of that is. Oftentimes when I ask someone, why are you against legalizing sex work? They're not able to actually answer my question. They've never actually asked themselves, why am I against this?

Instead, they've internalized a feeling or a belief and convinced themselves that this is reality, that, oh no, these women might be forced or coerced or trapped. But the reality is, we all choose to be here. There's actually a waiting list of ladies that want to come and work here, and there simply aren't enough opportunities to pass around to everyone. For someone like you, who is... You're so clear and direct about how this work is empowering, how this work is allowing you to choose your schedule, what you want to do, explore your body.

What do you say to another woman who might be saying, no, this is objectifying women, this is pushing us backwards. I mean, what does it make you feel when you are confronted with all the other things people will say, especially women, about sex work? Oh boy, you just activated my trap card. I've got quite the rant when it comes to being a genuine ally to sex workers. It starts with listening to what they are saying. You can't be an advocate or an ally to them if you're speaking over them and missing the context of what they are saying. If legal sex workers are telling you, actually, I love my job and I'm

empowered by it, I want to work here, you should instead stay, okay. Well, how can I help you? What assistance do you need? The biggest difficulty that I have as a sex worker is that nobody wants to listen to me. Nobody actually is looking to talk to me. The media is constantly talking about me, but they very often fail to actually reach out and talk to a legal sex worker directly. You're not an ally when you talk over us and put your negative assumptions on us. And what I've learned is that you have to listen to people and help them in the way that they want to be helped. We asked her why she chooses to be here at the Bunny Ranch instead of working on her own.

Ooh. Well, I've only ever worked as a legal sex worker. I've never done independent sex work or illegal sex work. With that being said, I do think that there should be an option legally in this country that allows for women to work independently through a legal system. At this time in America, all legal sex workers have to be licensed through a Nevada brothel and work associated with that brothel.

But that's not true internationally. In New Zealand, they have a legal system that allows for both legalized brothel work as well as legalized independent work, where the ladies are able to set up their own in-call location and are able to set their own appointments and schedule themselves however they so choose. I do think we need an option here in the States that allows for women to work legally independently. It is a criminalized industry, and as such, they definitely will go after you if you choose to work in a non-associated capacity. The Bunny Ranch was owned for more than 20 years by a man named Dennis Hoff. He published an autobiography called The Art of the Pimp.

There are photos of Dennis Hoff and various celebrities posted all around the ranch. Governor Jesse Ventura, Larry Flint, Carrot Top, Vince Neal from Motley Crue. Which is interesting, because Vince Neal was charged with battery in 2003 for grabbing a Bunny Ranch sex worker by the throat and throwing her against a wall. He pled no contest. Over the years, Dennis Hoff was repeatedly accused of sexually assaulting his employees and refusing to wear a condom. It's unclear why he was never prosecuted, but reporters have noted that Dennis Hoff's brothels generated a lot of revenue for these rural counties.

Former NBA player Lamar Odom overdosed in one of Dennis Hoff's brothels in 2015. He recently stated that he did not intentionally ingest any drugs and accused Dennis Hoff of trying to kill him. Dennis Hoff died last year of a heart attack, just after his 72nd birthday party. One month later, Nevada voters elected him to the state assembly, posthumously. What about the negative stuff that, when you hear the negative things that have been said about Dennis Hoff here, what do you say to the criticism that has come out of this place?

Women who have worked here, but also all of the criticism that's been said about the man who was running this place. What's your answer to that? I can only speak to my firsthand experiences. I by no means spent 24-7 with Dennis Hoff. So I don't know what Dennis Hoff did 24-7. And for me to say that I know what he did 24-7 would be a lie. Instead, all I can do is speak as to the person that I interacted with. And in my experience, he was nothing but wonderful. He was a very well-educated mentor, a very savvy businessman who really used the early instances of reality TV to his advantage. And I never

experienced anything that would be indicative of anything negative. The brothels of rural Nevada aren't just criticized because of Dennis Hoff. In our last episode, we spoke with a former sex worker named Cecilia Gentile. She's trans and grew up in Argentina in the 1970s. She's been arrested and even sexually assaulted by police. We wanted to get her take on these legal brothels. It's fine. I think it's great to have spaces where, like, you know, people can do sex work. The thing is, the places like the Barney Ranch,

it's like... Who works there, right? The ideas of beauty are, you know, so terribly policed by owners that, you know, if, you know, can you work at the Bunny Ranch if you are in your 50s and you don't have the perfect body and you're not blonde and white. I don't think places like the Bunny Ranch is open to bodies and races and legal statuses and ages, you know, I think those places are okay if you are young, skinny, blonde, white. So those places are targeted to a specific group of sex workers, right? Which is great that they have a place, but, you know,

did you see a trans person in the ranch? No. Did you see a fat woman in the ranch? No. So is that kind of legalized sex work open to every sex worker? I guess the answer is no. So I'm not against it, but it puts power over, you know, the owner of the ranch into who you're going to hire

when decriminalization is just open to everybody that has to do sex work. Something that Cecilia and Jessica and Alice all said to us was that while sex is obviously part of the job, and it's the part outsiders are most curious about, the real work has nothing to do with the sex. Alice Little says her most requested encounter is the so-called girlfriend experience. A more involved kind of attention from her,

holding hands, long conversations, texting. The reality is that sex makes up about 2% of what I actually do. Sex isn't the focus. Intimacy is. That's what people are coming to the Bunny Ranch for. It's never been the sex. It never will be the sex. Sex is common.

Sex is everywhere. You can go to the bar and have sex if you want to. People, I think, have this negative perception of monetizing sex because they don't see the value in the labor that women are actually doing. When a woman is being communicative, intimate with a non-experienced partner and is focusing on them, helping them, teaching them, there's value to that. That's work. And I don't think people truly understand what it is that people are buying when they come to a legal sex worker.

They assume that they're buying sex, that they're paying for a blowjob, you know, dollars for minutes, but that's just not the case. They're coming to buy something that's intangible, this emotion, essentially. They're coming and experiencing connection, and that's intangible, this emotion, essentially. They're coming and experiencing connection. And that's where the real value lies. Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Audio mix by Rob Byers.

Special thanks to Susanna Robertson. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com. We're on Facebook and Twitter at Criminal Show. Criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina Public Radio, WUNC. We're a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a collection of the best podcasts around. Shows like Ear Hustle, which shares stories about daily life in San Quentin State Prison from the perspective of those living in it. Season four has just launched. After co-host Irlon Woods got some exciting news last fall,

this season will be a little different than the other three. We're also telling stories about life outside prison, post-incarceration. So a lot of people ask me what it was and how long I have to wear it and why do I have it on. And like, damn, it seems like you locked up, you still gotta wear that, and how long I have to wear it and why do I have it on. And like, damn, it seemed like you locked up. You still got to wear that? And how long you got to wear that?

Outside stories, inside stories. It all starts with episode one of season four of Ear Hustle from PRX's Radiotopia. Ear Hustle is back. Ear Hustle's fourth season on EarHustleSQ.com or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Radiotopia. from PRX. is in use to temporarily make moderate to severe frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better in adults. Effects of Botox Cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing,

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