Criminal - The Loves

Episode Date: October 8, 2021

“There is something he hasn’t been telling me and I’m about to find out what it is.” Bobby and Cheryl Love’s book is The Redemption of Bobby Love: A Story of Faith, Family, and Justice. Say hello on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. Sign up for our occasional newsletter, The Accomplice. Follow the show and review us on Apple Podcasts: iTunes.com/CriminalShow. We also make This is Love and Phoebe Reads a Mystery. Artwork by Julienne Alexander. Check out our online shop.  Episode transcripts are posted on our website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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worth your attention, and they call these series essentials. This month, they recommend Wondery's Ghost Story, a seven-part series that follows journalist Tristan Redman as he tries to get to the bottom of a ghostly presence in his childhood home. His investigation takes him on a journey involving

homicide detectives, ghost hunters, and even psychic mediums, and leads him to a dark secret about his own family. Check out Ghost Story, a series essential pick, completely ad-free on Apple Podcasts. First time I saw him, I said, who is that? He's so loud.

Because Bobby would be singing songs. He's singing songs and everything. But while I'm singing, he's loud. I'm still looking, you know, the side of my eye, as I thought it was cute. Cheryl Love met her husband Bobby when they were both working at Baptist Medical Center in Brooklyn in the early 80s. Cheryl was a dietary aide, and Bobby washed dishes. And he used to wear his hat a certain way. Like, everybody would wear it a straight way, but he would wear it the opposite way,

and I thought that was the cutest thing, but I didn't dare tell him, but that's what I was, you know, in my heart saying, oh, that's so cute. What did you think, Bobby, when you first saw Cheryl? I thought she was a knockout. Good answer. When you started spending a little more time with Bobby,

how long did it take you to realize that you were getting serious about this man, that this is someone that you didn't want it to just be a fling, that this is someone you wanted to spend your life with? Well, it wasn't right away because, like I said, he was a little loud, but I liked him. He made people laugh, he would sing, he was a jolly type of person, so I liked that about him. And he struck me as somebody who I could believe in, that I could trust, you know? He was nice.

When Cheryl found out that she was pregnant, they started looking for an apartment where they could live together and start their family. I was like, okay, so I'm just thinking, well, marriage will come. That's how I'm thinking. And lo and behold, one morning he had came over to the house and he proposed to me. And he said to me, he said, you know, we could go and get married in Jamaica. And I was like, Jamaica? No way. I don't want to go to Jamaica to get married. Why do you want to go to Jamaica? But I didn't want to get married in Jamaica. But anyway, he did propose to me and said that, you know, he wanted to get, he wanted to, wanted me to be his wife. Bobby, in those early days as a new husband and a young father, what was life like

with Cheryl in those early days of being a family? I loved every minute of it. I would come home from work and I had a halter that I would put Jasmine in, my daughter Jasmine, and I would be all over the place with Jasmine. So it was great for me. You know, I loved every minute of it. Jasmine just, she was just a joy. Two years later, Bobby and Cheryl had another daughter, Jessica. Bobby would spend his days off, usually Monday and Tuesday,

taking the girls to the park or to the movies. He says he just tried to spend as much time as possible with them. And then, ten years after Jessica was born, Cheryl found out that she was pregnant again, with twins. And I said, what? They said, yeah, you're going to have twins, Miss Love. I said, oh, wow. When I say I floated home that day, I floated home.

They named the two boys, Jordan and Justin. Once the kids were born, you know, they were our main focus. We would, I mean, you know, if it came down to it, we would feed them. And then if whatever was left over, we would eat if it came to that. Bobby, who is now working in the kitchen at a hospital in the Bronx, found a second job as a nurse's aide at night. He was working all the time. Still, Cheryl says he always found a way to spend time with the kids. When the boys got older, he coached their football and baseball teams. He helped Cheryl around the house in any way that he could. She says he was a great cook. But there were aspects of their relationship that bothered her.

She felt like they had trouble talking sometimes. It would be when I'm trying to discuss something with him and say, why are you acting like that? Did I do anything? You know, stuff like that. And he would just shut down. You know, he wouldn't say anything. And I wanted him to respond back to me. And I would say, you can talk so much about everything else, but now I'm trying to talk to you about, you know, something with us, and you can't do it. What's going on?

Bobby also had some quirks that Cheryl couldn't understand, like the fact that he never wanted to be in photographs. To me, that was weird because pictures, that's what family does. You take pictures, but he didn't want to do that all the time. Every once in a while, I could get him to take a picture, but Bobby didn't like to take pictures. I was like, why doesn't this man like to take pictures? So that was one thing. And like, there was something sometimes like, I wouldn't feel so affected. Like he was very affectionate, but I mean, I tried to say that

to my friends. Well, I don't see what they said. Are you kidding me? That man goes out to work every day. He comes home. He takes care of you. He buys you beautiful things. Cheryl, you don't have no problems. So a lot of times I just said, I let it go over my head. Like, okay, you're right. You're right. He did not do anything. I don't see any evidence of any cheating, any woman, any family. Because I was thinking maybe he has another family. Maybe that's it. And he's hiding it. And I would ask him, and he would say, oh, please, y'all, no, nothing. No, no, there's nothing like that.

And he always would say to me, you know, I am committed to you. I am committed to this marriage, and I want to be here. And so I just, you know, lived with that. They were two months away from their 30th wedding anniversary when on January 22, 2015, Cheryl heard a knock on their door. I usually get up about 6.30, 7 o'clock, and one of my sons, he had to get to school early,

so Jordan, he was getting up, getting prepared prepared and, you know, getting ready for school, his class. And I usually get up, make me a cup of tea and everything, make sure he's up and doing what he needs to do. And so as I'm in the kitchen making this cup of tea, loud knock on the door, a loud knock. And I'm like, who is it? And Bobby even said, who is it? He's laying down. And we go, who is it? This is 2A.

And they said, yeah, we want 2A. So I go and I open the door. And when I open the door, FBI, NY NYPD and they're coming guns drawn and they're like to me sandbath ma'am you don't know who this is and I mean way louder than what I'm saying and like the shock of it all you know and they're like I see you know they wouldn't let me get near Bobby he's getting you know up now And I see the cops behind him, you know, talking to him, but they're talking low. They're kind of murmuring. I don't hear anything. And one guy's like keeping me back. And so I'm like, Bobby, what's going on? What's

going on? And my husband is not looking at me. He's not, no eye contact, nothing. Just he's holding his head down. I'm like, what is this? What's going on? And like I said, the cop is like, get back. You don't know who this is. You don't know who this man is. And even when I say it now, I can, my heart beats faster.

Because that was something to hear. Like, I don't know who he is. This is my husband. I don't know who he is. This is my husband, I don't know who he is. But then I could feel almost like this is what I've been, you know, thinking all this time when, you know, there's something he hasn't been telling me, and this is it, and I'm about to find out what it is.

I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. Oh boy, I said that, I said this is it. I was upset. I was upset. I was angry. I was everything. And when the cops, they kind of surrounded me. You know, I was laying in the bed, and they kind of put a half, you know, standing. Semi-circle.

Yeah, semi-circle with, you know, three guys standing around me. They asked me if there were any guns were in the house. I said, no, man, there's no guns here. And then one of them said, he said, you had a good run or a long run. Also, he said to me, what's your name? And I said, Bobby Love. He said, no, what's your name? And I said, Bobby Love. He said, no, what's your real name?

So I knew what he was, you know, where he was coming from with that. So I said, Walter Curtis Miller. He said, yeah, you had a good run, a long run, a good run. And I kind of stood there, and then Cheryl would say, you know, still trying to get some understanding of what was going on. I said to her, I said, Cheryl, this happened long before I ever met you.

She was crying. When I started to face my children, they were crying and we all was just crying. They allowed me to go into the next room and hug my daughter and hug my son, Justin. And then they walked me out. At that moment,

I really didn't know why he was arrested. I didn't know. But I'm telling you, I told Bobby, I said, you know, I really love you because at that moment, I was not thinking of myself at all. I was not thinking about I was thinking about, is he OK? Is he? I didn't know because this is overwhelming for me. And they're taking him away. And it's something that he hasn't told me about.

Is he thinking I'm going to leave him? I wanted to let him know that I'm with him. It's going to be all right. I'm with you. I don't know what's going on, but I'm with you. My wife would say, tell them, you can't take me because I'm a diabetic. And I need my medication. I said, he didn't eat anything yet.

I said, he has to eat. He has to eat. So I think they said, just let that lady leave her alone and let her give him so I had chocolate chip cookies and the guy was still trying to hold me back but I was just acting like he wasn't there and I just said he gotta eat something he gotta eat something so I was giving him chocolate chip cookies and I said Bobby eat these cookies eat the cookies and I know they was looking at me like are you crazy we said you can't talk I said but I just wasn't listening I was just here Bobby eat these cookies and I said, but I just wasn't listening. I was just, here, Bobby, eat these cookies. And I said, he needs a coat on because it's cold out there.

I said, he needs on a jacket. So they let me get a jacket for him. So, yeah. I can laugh about it now. It wasn't funny then. So, Cheryl, you were just trying to take care of him. Yeah. The best you could in the moment.

Mm-hmm. But as they drove him away, I was just like, God, what is happening? What is really happening here? But it was almost a relief, too, because I knew that this is what it's been all these years. When he would shut down, when I couldn't get so close to him, this is what he was hiding, you know? So I said, this is what it was all those years. And even though I didn't know the whole story, I said, this is part of it. This is part of it. This is part of it.

Mm-hmm. I'm sorry. Essentials. This month, they recommend Wondery's Ghost Story, a seven-part series that follows journalist Tristan Redman as he tries to get to the bottom of a ghostly presence in his childhood home. His investigation takes him on a journey involving homicide detectives, ghost hunters, and even psychic mediums, and leads him to a dark secret about his own family. Check out Ghost Story, a series essential pick, completely ad-free on Apple Podcasts. Hey, it's Scott Galloway, and on our podcast, Pivot,

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So, tune into AI Basics, How and When to Use AI, a special series from Pivot sponsored by AWS, wherever you get your podcasts. On January 22nd, 2015, Bobby Love was arrested for a crime he had committed almost 40 years earlier, in 1977, when he was still known as Walter Curtis Miller. Walter Curtis Miller was born on November 6, 1950, in Greensboro, North Carolina. His father died when he was nine, and his mother raised him and his siblings. When he was starting eighth grade, he enrolled at Gillespie Park Junior High, which had been one of the first schools in North Carolina to desegregate in 1957. He remembers

that on his first day, some white students yelled at him, this is our school. He says the year went okay. He liked math and art. And as summer approached, he remembers that he bought a ticket to attend his first concert, Sam Cooke at the Greensboro Coliseum. He was so excited, he pushed his way to the front of the crowd, where everyone was dancing. He was 13. He only stayed out there for two songs, and he told the people, if you don't sit down, he's going to walk off the stage, which he did.

I shouted out, obscenity, and I was arrested. What did you shout at the concert, do you remember? I said, Sam Cooke ain't shit. I cursed at him. I did it very loud because he walked off the stage, you know,

and when he walked off the stage, it was, you know, we felt like he, you know, just said to hell with us people that had come there to watch him perform. They wrote me what you call a summons for disorderly conduct. And they drove me home and came in the house. It was, I guess, about one, two o'clock in the morning.

And actually, I had to knock on my sister's window for her to open the door. My mother used to tell me that if I don't be in the house at a certain time, I'm not going to get in there. So I knocked on my sister's window, and she let me in. And my sister, you know, she was like three years older than me. It's like she just said, Mama going to kill you. My mother was asleep. But anyway, I would go in there and get in the bed, you know. And I just went on about doing what I needed to do.

But that summons had a court date on it to go to this court downtown. And I just totally ignored all of that and didn't go. Just before starting ninth grade, Bobby remembers stealing a woman's purse at the fairgrounds and realizing it had $500 in it. He bought a new sweater, some new shoes, and some records. He says he started to notice how often people just left money unattended, and he started stealing from other kids at school.

So I'm stealing money from guys' pants in gym. You know, you put your pants in your locker, your locker's still left open, and I would go in there and I would put my hands in some people's guys' pocketbooks and pockets and steal their money. So I did it one day and I came back the next day doing the same thing. And a policeman was in one of the closets. So he jumped out and said, you're under arrest. He was sentenced to 13 months at a juvenile facility called the Morrison Training School.

He says it was rough. He couldn't wait for his mother to visit. He says he cried when he saw her. That's when I said I was going to get out of here. And what did you do? Well, I kind of paid attention to the guards and how many guards worked at night. And I used to hear the train.

I didn't know exactly where the train was, but I would hear that whistle on the train. So my thinking was this. I'm going to leave in the middle of the night. I'm going to run as fast as I can on the street. But if a car comes, I'm going to get on the side so they can't see me. And if a train come past me, I would know where those tracks were. Because my plan, my idea, my thoughts were to get to those train tracks and walk those train tracks all the way up to the next city. And that's what I did. Were you nervous?

I was scared as hell. But yes, I got on those train tracks, man, and I ran a little bit. I walked a little bit. I ran a little bit. I walked a little bit. I ran a little bit. I walked a little bit. And by the time it was starting to get light that morning, I was in the next city. He knew he couldn't go home, so he took a bus to Washington, D.C., where his brother Raymond lived. So when I got there, first thing he did was call my mother and told my mother that I had come to D.C. So my mother said, yeah, the cops have been here.

She was concerned about, you know, was I all right, you know, like that. So I told Raymond, I said, Raymond, if I just stay here, you know, I'm not going to get in no trouble like that. That kind of stuff. So he said, OK. Bobby got a job at Russell Stover Candies. He enrolled in high school again, at Eastern High School. He says that back then, the school had a special program that placed students in government offices. He applied, and he says he was given a job at the Pentagon,

filing papers and running errands for 20 hours a week. He eventually found a small apartment, and when he was 17, began living on his own. He says he was making enough money to cover his rent, but when he heard that one of his friends had gotten away with a big robbery, he asked if he could join the next time. In January of 1969, they made being there in Washington, D.C., wasn't going to be that many cops in places like Southeast Washington, D.C., where we were at, where we was going to pull this robbery. So I came out and I had the money, I had a gun, and I was ducking down, running, well, not really running, but I was trying to see whether any cops was in the area where I was and I got shot from behind in my behind. I really didn't know until the police, you know, put me in the ambulance and stuff like that.

And I was like, what happened? You know, and somebody said I got shot. Bobby recovered in the hospital for almost a month. You know, and somebody said I got shot. Bobby recovered in the hospital for almost a month. And then, he says, he was wheeled right across the street to the D.C. jail. He says that the judge denied his request for leniency because of his previous record. He was convicted of armed robbery and sentenced to 13 months at a center for juvenile offenders. I didn't learn nothing from that 13 months that I spent at the youth center in Washington, D.C.

When I came out after doing the 13 months, I went back to doing the same thing. I started robbing. I would come down to Greensboro and we committed some robberies, came back to Washington, D.C. They mostly robbed credit unions. Bobby says they'd drive to North Carolina because the security there was less sophisticated than in Washington, D.C. In June of 1971, he decided to steal a car to make the drive. When Bobby and the three friends who had come with him arrived at the credit union they'd planned to rob, there was less than $1,000 in the registers behind the counter, and something seemed off.

So they drove away, trying to drive just at the speed limit. Then they noticed a police car following them, and another one coming towards them. Bobby says the two police cars turned their lights and sirens on at the same time, and he and his friends were arrested. I was sentenced to 25 to 30 years. 30, 25 to 30 years. I mean, what did you, when you heard that you were being sentenced to 25 to 30 years

in prison, before you had done little stints in youth facilities, but what was that like when you heard that by the time you got out of prison, you would be far into middle age? I started doing everything I could to get out. You know, I made up my mind. This was it for me. I'm not ever getting in any more trouble. So I joined the JC's, I started going to the church, I worked different jobs, I worked in the hospital, and all of that helped me to make honor grade. Honor grade is when you're being shipped to a minimum road camp somewhere. So that's what I did. I made up my mind that no more criminal acts and stuff like that. After being transferred to a few different prisons,

Bobby was placed in a minimum security facility in Raleigh, North Carolina. He says he was allowed to walk around the yard and make phone calls. And every Wednesday, he recorded his own radio show. And then, things started to change. He had been working in the office. One of his jobs was picking up the newspapers at the gate to bring into the office each day. One day his supervisor told him he didn't have to bring in the papers

anymore. But then the next day when he didn't pick up the newspapers, the guard at the gate brought him up. I said, man, that's a trick, you know? One person tell you one thing, then you have to deal with somebody else. So he didn't defend me on that, so they moved me from that job. They moved me to the kitchen. One morning, this captain come across the yard,

thought that I said something nasty to him, so they took me out of there. Bobby was told that from then on, he would be working on the road crew. When they put me on the road, I said to myself, this is the last job they're going to give me because I'm going to get myself out of here.

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People would throw hamburgers and milkshakes at him from passing cars. Part of working road crew involved being driven away from the prison on a regular basis. And Bobby began to pay a lot of attention to every part of how they were transported, where the bus stopped, and for how long. He noticed that no matter where they were transported, where the bus stopped, and for how long. He noticed that no matter where they were going, the bus always stopped at a particular stop sign in a wooded area. Bobby started carrying a bag onto the bus in the morning, just to see if the guards would check it.

He noticed that the guard on Tuesdays didn't pay as much attention as the others, sometimes not checking his bag at all. Bobby slowly began to get rid of his personal effects, anything that had a phone number or address of someone he knew and could be used to trace him. He says he didn't want to leave any evidence he'd ever been there at all. On Tuesday, November 8, 1977, two days after his 27th birthday, Bobby put on regular clothes under his prison uniform. He packed the money he'd saved and reported for work.

And I said, if this guard is on that Tuesday morning, I'm gone. I walked through that gate. I got on the bus. I sit in the back. And we went down this street. We got ready to turn. I opened the back door of that bus. And I jumped off.

And I was gone. Bobby says he ran into the woods, and then he kept running. He asked for directions to the bus station. One man bought him a ticket, and another gave him money. Bobby remembers the man saying, I hope you're not in trouble. And then Bobby got on a bus heading for New York. He says he figured he could get lost there. I would walk up and down the blocks, you know, all over New York. And one day I was walking and I see a social security office. And I walked in there and applied for a social security card

and when the lady asked me if I'd ever had a card before I told her no which was a lie because I had the lady gave me the card right on the spot and I'm like okay this is great. So that gave me, you know, a feeling that I can, you know, probably get me some ID from somewhere and establish myself a little bit better. Bobby Love started gathering all the documents he needed to try to make his new life official and to find a job. He scratched the name out of a birth certificate, typed in Bobby Love, and photocopied it until it looked authentic. Next, he used the birth

certificate to get a driver's license. He says he paid someone at the DMV not to notice that it was doctored. He found a job at a warehouse and an apartment in Staten Island He tried to be careful He says he waited four years before he felt safe calling his sister, Jean, to let her know that he was okay He'd been worried that maybe her phone line had been tapped Once, he says he was walking down the street in New York and someone started coming towards him, yelling, calling him one of his old nicknames from growing up in Greensboro. Bobby says he tried to be nice and get away as soon as he could.

He also remembers a time when he went on several dates with a woman before finding out what she did for a living and abruptly cutting things off. She said, I'm an FBI agent. I said, you what? She said, yes, I'm an FBI agent. I just come off a stakeout. I said, you just come off a stakeout? She said, yeah. She said, I look you up. All I saw that you had a driver's license. I said, what was going through my head was that this is the last time I'm going to see and call this lady for sure. So that was it with her. Bobby says he continued to date over the years,

but wasn't really serious about anyone. It was hard to keep such a big secret. And then he met Cheryl. He really liked her, and he was very worried that if she ever found out about his past, she would leave him. When Bobby proposed to Cheryl, he suggested they get married in Jamaica, in part because the cost of a plane ticket could explain why his family couldn't come. But Cheryl insisted that they have the wedding in New York. When Bobby called his sister Jean

to tell her that he was getting married, she said, I want to come. I said, you do? So I said to her, I said, listen, Jean, I said, now, my name is Bobby Love, okay? She said, yeah, I know. Jean drove up to New York with her son, along with Bobby's brother and his wife. Cheryl says that at the wedding, they were awkward and wouldn't talk to her much.

It was the first time she'd met any of Bobby's family. I thought they didn't like me. But as, you know, the story is now, I know why they treated me like that. They were trying to keep that secret, you know, being loyal to him and not let me find out. So they didn't really know what to say to me, you know?

When you eventually saw his arrest record, what did you think? I just kind of put myself and said, my God. I said, you know, everybody, everybody has a past and everybody needs a second chance. By the time the FBI and NYPD knocked on their door in 2015, he'd been living as Bobby Love for almost 40 years. He doesn't know exactly how he got caught after so much time, but he has an idea. A few months earlier, he'd attended his brother's funeral.

Cheryl remembers being upset because he didn't want her to come. One of his nieces printed his name in the funeral program, the name Bobby Love. Someone asked why he was using a fake name, and Bobby remembers he just kind of brushed them off. But he thinks that someone at the funeral, probably a family member, put two and two together and called the police. He found out after his arrest that there had been a reward out for him all these years and that it hadn't changed since 1977,

$2,000. Bobby was sent to North Carolina to finish his sentence. Ten years at Mountain View Correctional Institution near Asheville. He was 64. He wrote long letters to Cheryl, and Cheryl made sure she was near her phone every night at 6.30 when Bobby would call. She also started gathering statements about Bobby's character from anyone she could think of, the bishop at their church, the kid's football coach, her god sisters. And when the time came, she went to Bobby's

parole hearing in North Carolina and spoke on his behalf. I'd known him to be a good father, a good husband, and that I just took my time and I told him the different things that I remember, what he was to me and what he, you know, did that was positive in the community. And I said, in a way, because I saw it as he rehabilitated himself by not going to do anything, you know, negative or bad. He took care of me. He worked two and three jobs at a time. He took care of

the children. He would help cook. He would do the shopping at times. He would do laundry. You know, there wasn't anything that I would ask him that he wouldn't do. Whatever Cheryl said seemed to have an impact. A little over two months after the hearing, Bobby was released on parole. He took the bus to New York, like he'd done almost 40 years before. We were so excited that morning. I don't think I slept, like, two hours. We were so excited that morning. I don't think I slept like two hours. We were so excited. I couldn't wait. I couldn't wait. I was like, oh my God, everything has to be just right. I want the house smelling and looking beautiful. I want to be looking nice myself. I want the kids

to look good. I want everybody feeling good. I said, Lord, thank you. He's coming home. I was just jubilant, just so happy. And so we got up. We were early. My son-in-law and my daughter, they lived in Harlem, but they came over to pick us up in Brooklyn, and we all were going to ride down there to meet him. And so when we got out by the bus station there at Greyhound, the Greyhound bus, he came and saw the bus and everybody got off. He got off last. And I'm like, oh, there he is. I can see him through the thing. But when he got off, oh, my goodness, he had this beard that was so, I said, what in the world?

What do we do? Look at this beard. And first of all, we just hugged him and loved on him and everything and said, we're so happy you're home and everything. So we all went to this restaurant to eat. But before we did that, we picked my daughter, Jessica, up by the train station there. And when she saw him, oh, my goodness, she just could not stop laughing. That beard was so funny to her.

So, of course, we're all cracking up. Everybody came over to their house, and Cheryl says that she and Bobby didn't have a minute to themselves until late that night. When it was just the two of them, she says it felt like they were on their first date. They sat on the couch together, not talking, just listening to the radio.

Did you ever get angry at Bobby? Did you ever ask him why he didn't tell you all those years, if he loved you and trusted you, why he didn't tell you? Mm-hmm. Um, I did. I did. I said to him, I said, why didn't you tell me? I had already made up in my mind I was not going to leave him. But I did say to him, honey, you should have told me.

Why? You should have told me. He said, Cheryl, if I would have told you, you would have made me turn myself in. You would have said that would have been the best thing to do. And I said, you know what? You're right. You know me. You are absolutely right. And I just said, you know what? I want a good marriage. I want my marriage. I don't want to be bitter. So I'm going to forgive him. Bobby started talking to Cheryl more about his past. He told his kids they could ask him anything they wanted. And he's legally changed

his name to Bobby Love. Bobby, what is it like to know that Cheryl knows your full history now and knows the secrets that you hid for so long and still loves you and still wants, of course,

to be married with you, but also to grow old with you. It makes me feel good. It makes me feel that I'm cared for. We have this thing where we get up in the morning, that's one of the things we say to each other, how you feeling? We kind of search out each other. That one of the things we say to each other, how you feeling? We kind of search out each other. That's the key, being kind to each other

and being forgiving and loving to each other. And sometimes you don't feel like that all the time, but when you don't feel like that, one thing I'll do, I'll just go into another room, sit down someplace, maybe count, maybe pray, maybe do some coloring, do something else, and then come back and try to talk again. You know? That's all you can do? Yeah.

Yes. He likes to take a nap. That's sleep on. Yeah. When everything is out in the open it always makes things better yes it does oh my goodness i am so ecstatic right now right now um we both i can speak for bobby on this we both feel like this is our season and um we can, and Bobby can be, his true, authentic self. And me too. Criminal is created by Lauren Spohr and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer.

Susanna Robertson is our producer. Engineering by Russ Henry. Audio mix by Rob Byers. Special thanks to Jonathan Conyers and Lily Clark. Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at thisiscriminal.com. We're on Facebook and Twitter at Criminal Show.

To learn more about Bobby and Cheryl Love, check out their book. It's called The Redemption of Bobby Love, a story of faith, family, and justice. Criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina Public Radio, WUNC. We're a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a collection of the best podcasts around. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is criminal. Botox Cosmetic, adipotulinum toxin A, is a prescription medicine used to temporarily make moderate to severe frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better in adults.

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