Criminology - 9/11 Unsolved Mysteries

Episode Date: September 17, 2023

On September 11, 2001, the United States was rocked by terrorism and terrible loss of life. In the chaos of the day's events, a murder and a disappearance unfolded that remain unsolved. Mystery surrounds both cases. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the murder of Henryk Siwiak and the disappearance of Dr. Sneha Ann Phillip. Henry was a Polish immigrant working hard to feed himself and send money back home to his family in Poland. He was shot and killed while on his way to a cleaning job. Dr Sneha Ann Phillip disappeared overnight on the 10th or during the day on the 11th. Her disappearance is shrouded in mystery. Did she run to the scene of the chaos to try to help, or did something sinister happen to her? You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology An Emash Digital production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's amazing. I'm going to call right now. For treatment of depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, or trauma. Call 888-8-18-78-7762, or visit Advanced Mental Health. today. Criminalogy is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Everyone and welcome to episode 274 of the criminology podcast. This is Mike Ferguson. And I'm Mike Morford. Hey, Mr. Morford, ma'am. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing good. I'm getting ready for some crime con action. This episode's coming out a week before we'll be in Orlando

and I'm pretty stoked about it. How about you? Yeah, yeah, it is coming up very, very, very quickly. I mean, it seems like we've been talking about it for a long time, but, you know, time just passes so fast that, you know, things are here before you know. Yeah. And, you know, all the work that goes into it to go there for us, we have to bring a bunch of stuff and, you know, but it's worth the effort because we get to meet so many cool people and hang out and say hi. And it's just a real fun time. So I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah, I am excited. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Naomi Childress and Carrie Brink.

So that's a lot of great new support. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks to everyone that supports the show. It means a lot to us. And if you'd like to support the show, you can go to patreon.com slash criminology. All right. It's time to jump into this episode. You know, this week marked the 22nd anniversary of the September 11th attacks here in the U.S.

And that date is always a reminder of the terror. events that unfolded back in 2001. For many people, I'm sure it's one of those days in your life where you'll always remember where you were, what you were doing as those terrible events unfolded. The story, understandably, was front and center, and it was pretty much what everyone was talking about. But in the background, lost in the chaos of 9-11, were two cases in the New York City area that were widely overlooked as so many people were trying to.

to come to terms with what had just happened to the country. And these are two cases that remain unsolved today. 22 years later, in this episode, we're talking about the murder of Henrik Seviak and the disappearance of Dr. Snea and Philip. Forty-year-old Henrik Seviak moved from Poland to New York in 2000 after he lost his job. The former inspector for the Polish National Railroad found odd construction jobs here and there to support himself and his family back home. He had two children, 17-year-old Gabriela and 10-year-old Adam, with his wife, Yuwa, who was a scientist. The two childhood friends had been married for 20 years, celebrating their anniversary on September 5th. For just under a year, Henrik had been living in

New York near his sister, Luciana. Henrik usually made about $1,000 each month, and he would send half of that back to Yua and the children in Poland. Henrik and Yuah wanted Gabriello to be able to go to a decent university there in Poland. And he wanted to be able to return and build a new home for his family someday. So they were trying to save up money. But at the same time, they were both trying to survive an economic downturn in their country. In need of more work, Henrik looked through ads in a Polish language newspaper called Super Express. He had been calling and basically trying to find any job that would hire him.

In September 2001, he inquired about an ad for, cleaning work. According to the Daily Mail UK, the ad read, men to clean stores in Brooklyn and Queens, English not necessary. And since Henrik spoke very little English, he thought this may be worth looking into. What little English Henrik did know, he had learned from watching American TV shows. At 8.46 a.m. on September 11th, 2001, a plane crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center. No one knew it at the time, but it was the start of the horrific 9-11 attacks on the U.S. at 9.03 a.m. the second plane crashed into the South Tower. People were surprised and puzzled when the first plane hit the World Trade Center.

But when the second plane crashed, there was little doubt of what was happening. People frantically rushed to call each other and inform them telling their friends and family to turn on the TV. and first responders raced to the World Trade Center. The chaos was underway. In Krakall, Poland, the attacks on the World Trade Center were interrupting regular programs, and many people there, just like nearly everyone in the United States, were following the breaking news. It was 3 p.m. there. Yua, Gabriela, and Adam anxiously waited to hear from Henrik and Luciana.

She and Adam watched the news as they waited. According to an article published in the New Island Ear, Ua said, we thought about our husband and father. Finally, at 5 p.m. crackout time, or just after 11 a.m. in New York's local time, Henrik called his family. He was back at the apartment, safe. You had told the New Islander, we were happy when he called us. He told his wife that he had seen one of the towers get hit

and had actually felt the ground shake under his feet, but he told her, I'm okay. Henrik's TV was broken, so all he knew about was what he had seen firsthand. He didn't hear the reporters in their updates. Yuah told ABC News, I don't think he understood the gravity. I asked him not to go anywhere that evening. Just a bit after he hung up from speaking with Yuah and Adam, Henrik received a call from Interra, an employment agency. They were calling about the cleaning job.

He had been assigned work. His first job would be that very night, cleaning a Pathmark supermarket with another employee from the service. To make sure he could get from Far Rockaway Queens, where he lived to the store on Albany Avenue in Brooklyn, his landlady Anna Sadowski gave him a subway map and they found that the A train would take him to Utica Avenue, a short walk from Albany Avenue, according to WNYC.org. Yuah, who later spoke to his landlady, Anna, recounted that Anna said that she had tried to stop him,

told him it wasn't a good neighborhood. It wasn't a good time to go there. and definitely not on that particular day. But Henrik was focused on providing for his family, and so he headed out. Henrik decided to wear a camouflage army jacket and matching pants to make sure the employee he was working with that night, who he never met before, could recognize him.

This outfit, along with a pair of black boots, was one of his favorite things to wear. He carried a change of clothes and a pair of tennis shoes in a backpack. Henrik took the A-train to Brooklyn and got off at the Utica stop. Unfortunately, this stop was almost four miles away from the Pathmark store he was looking for. Henrik and his landlady had accidentally planned a route to one Albany Avenue in Bedford instead of 1525 Albany Avenue. Looking for addresses and trying to figure out where he was from looking at street signs and his subway map, Henrik ended up on the stretch of Albany between Fulton and Decatur.

Meanwhile, the co-worker he was supposed to meet was waiting outside of the Pathmark store four miles south. He waited for an hour before deciding to tackle the job himself. So, Mor, I just want to take a step back for a minute and kind of, you know, see where we are in the story. Obviously, the events of 9-11 are central here because it was such a massive thing in the history of the United States. And it just so happens that the events surrounding Henrik are occurring on the same day. But here's a guy who, you know, doesn't speak a lot of. English is really trying to provide for his family. I get that sense. And so even though all of this is going on, he gets notification about this job. And even though his landlady is telling him,

hey, it's probably not a great idea. It's not a great area. The main thing, it seems, that was going through his mind was, I've got to work. I've got to make money so that not only I can live, but I can send it back to my family. Yeah, that's pretty clear. He was dedicated to his family and a hard worker. And, you know, that was a day 9-11 when a lot of things just stop. People stopped working and were glued to the TV, but some businesses and jobs still continued. And it could have been an easy time for Henrik to say, I'm just going to skip today and

see what's going on with everyone else. But he said, no, I'm going to still head out and go to work. And I'm going to map this route out. And I'm going to find this place and do the work so I can make some money to send home. So I think it was clear how focused he was on doing that. And I just wonder, you know, how much of it had to do with, you know, the fact that we said his television didn't work. And he didn't speak a lot of English anyway. So it didn't seem as though he really knew just exactly what was going on. And maybe if he had, he would have said, oh, maybe it was just better for me to stay home. We don't

know that. The area that Henrik wound up in was not a good area. Michelle Bryce, who had been living on Decatur Street for 42 years, told WNYC.org, the best time to walk between Fulton and Decatur is from 7 a.m. until 11 o'clock a.m. thereafter, you're on your own. Detective Michael Prate, with the 79th precinct added, the block at that time was an active block for both narcotics and street robberies. It's unknown. Exactly what happened to Henrik, but at 1145 p.m. he was found dead on Decatur Street near Albany Avenue. He had been shot in the chest. The New York Times would later call him the last man killed on September 11th. Multiple people saw and heard what happened before and after the murder. But no one seems to have seen who

fired shots at Henrik or what prompted the shooting. According to the New Island Ear, one resident, Sharoni Perry, recalled at least 25 to 30 people outside that night. She added, things were a little tense and everything. Most of the people were talking to each other about what had happened that morning at the World Trade Center. Henrik walked south on Albany Avenue to Atlantic Avenue. Sharoni saw him walking with a piece of paper in his hands, looking lost, as he walked to Atlantic and then back up toward Fulton. he stopped at a phone booth on the corner. He then walked back north toward Decatur. Sharoni noticed three men following behind Henrik as he walked from Atlantic Avenue. The three men

kept their distance about 50 feet back as they followed. Soon after, Sharoni only heard gunshots, but she didn't see the shooting. She saw people running from 119 Decatur Street, the address at the T intersection of Decatur and Albany. Looking closer, she saw Henrik lying on the ground. He was still holding the subway map in his hands. Another neighbor who lived 10 houses down from 119 Decatur was woken up by several gunshots, and he immediately got out of bed and dialed 911. As he looked outside, he couldn't see anyone running. Authorities responded to the scene quickly, which is a bit of a surprise, considering how many

of them were tied up and overwhelmed with rescue efforts at the World Trade Center. Lieutenant Tom Joyce says the response time was just one minute. Henrik's backpack was on the top step of 119 Decatur, but he was lying out on the sidewalk. A blood trail showed that he had run across Decatur Street and up the steps, probably looking for help. He ran back down the steps before collapsing. One anonymous woman who lived in the building told the New York Times, I heard the bell ringing. I wasn't answering it after I heard those shots.

And I don't know if I could blame her more than. in that situation. You hear gunshots outside. And then someone is trying to get into the building. Are you really going to let them in? I mean, obviously, she doesn't know that this man's been shot and he needs help. That might have been a different scenario, but not knowing what's going on. I think your first instinct is to protect yourself.

Yeah, I'd like to think that I would let someone in that needed help. But at the same time, as you mentioned, you hear their shot. your instinct is, okay, something's going on out there that I don't want to be part of and I don't want to let that situation come into my house. So, you know, it's hard to fault her for not opening the door. There may have been more leads to run down if Henrik had been killed on any other night because although police responded quickly, they just didn't have the normal full resources that they would have to conduct a full investigation, former NYPD chief of detectives, Robert Boyce, who on September 11th was the commanding officer of the 40th precinct in the Bronx,

told the New York Times, each borough was pretty much acting as its own police department. Because of 9-11, we were sending resources down to lower Manhattan. There seemed to be two main theories about what led to Henrik's murder. In that neighborhood, Henrook could have easily been a target for robbery, with thieves trying to target potential goods in his backpack. But he also could have been signaled out due to. the way he looked on that particular night in that city dressed in fatigues after a terrorist attack. To Henrik, he was just a man holding a subway map walking down the street on his way to a job,

wearing his favorite comfortable outfit that he bought at a local Salvation Army. To those in a very suddenly post-9-11 world, he was a foreigner wearing fatigues, holding a backpack, and had a piece of paper in his hands wandering around, perhaps looking like he was up to no good. Henrik was found to have about $80 in his pocket and his bag was left at the scene. This points away from a robbery, but it's always possible that something went wrong with the thief or thieves. They panicked and took off.

With Henrik speaking Little English, it's thought that he wouldn't understand if someone told him to empty his pockets or give them his money and wouldn't be able to cooperate, angering the killer. After being shot, he ran, which may explain why the killer wasn't able to go through his pockets or steal his backpack. However, multiple shots were fired at Henrik. Only one hit him, but this seems to some like it was more of a targeted shooting than a panicked or confused heat of the moment decision. Luciana had a theory that mixed both scenarios. Henrik's outfit getting him targeted and his lack of English getting him killed.

being in fatigues, carrying a backpack, and running into police at that time could have been dangerous. Luciana thinks his complexion was dark enough that he could have looked Middle Eastern to some people rather than Polish. Some think that maybe an authority figure a police officer gave Henrik a command he didn't follow. Luciana told the New Island ear, Henrik never understood about if police say hands up, leading to her theory. Maybe he wanted to explain and show ID and put his hands in his pocket, and they shot him in that moment. Lieutenant Tom Joyce doesn't think this is possible, mostly due to the caliber of the weapon used. He told the New Island Ear, if it was a cop, it definitely wasn't a cop's firearm. At the end of the day, there was no evidence to support a theory of police shooting Henrik.

Given the bad neighborhood he was in that was known for violent robberies, it seems that Henrik died during a robbery of some sort. Detective Michael Prate told the New York Times, I still in my heart believe that he was the victim of a robbery that went wrong. Yeah, and I'll be honest more. I mean, that theory, you know, being shot by a police officer, it doesn't seem to make the most sense to me. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened. I think what is very telling is the caliber used.

Now, we couldn't find the actual caliber, but most likely police officers at that time were carrying something like a 40 caliber. And so anything else, like a 20 caliber. 22, a 380, or maybe even a 9mm would kind of point away from a policeman reading the situation wrong and shooting Henry. To me, it does seem more likely that this was a robbery that ended in a homicide. Henrik's remains were cremated and sent home to his family in Poland. His sister Luciana told the New York Daily News, he really liked New York. But I think he would wanted to be buried in Poland. Their mother had a very hard time with his death.

And according to what Luciana told the New Island Ear, actually believes that Henrik died in the World Trade Center because of what she saw on TV the day her son died. In an ocean of death, his death was just one more drop. So it seems as though she just couldn't understand that Henrik wasn't killed in the 9-11 attacks. His son Adam felt like Henrik's death was God's way of punishing him, saying, I was a very, very bad boy. When she first got the news, you have thought there must have been a mistake. She said to ABC News, I thought somebody stole my husband's documents and then was murdered. Or my husband got lost somewhere, so I kept calling him to check when he will come home.

Sadly, there had been no mistake with his identity. Henrik was dead. he'd come to the U.S. to work hard and send money home to help his family and wound up dead on a city street. Tocovus is the go-to for premium handcrafted Western boots. Stop by any store location for a warm welcome, a cold drink in hand, and a truly one-of-a-kind shopping experience. Let our friendly staff help you find your new go-to boots, whether your first pair or your 50th. Finish things off with a complimentary boot brand to make them extra special. Come for the boots, stay for the good times.

Tocovus, Forever West. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency? We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020. Blood and water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. If you love chilling mysteries, unsolved cases, and a touch of mom-style humor,

Moms and Mysteries is the podcast you've been searching for. Hey guys, I'm Mandy. And I'm Melissa. Join us every Tuesday for Moms and Mysteries, your gateway to gripping, well-researched true crime stories. Each week, we deep dive into a variety of mind-boggling cases as we shed light on everything from heist to who done it, where you're a go-to-podcast for Mysteries with a Motherly Touch. Subscribe now to Moms and Mysteries wherever you get your podcast. Every year on September 11th, Luciana is one of the many who go to St. Patrick's Cathedral to mourn the loss of their loved ones who died on 9-11. However, she's probably one of the only ones there

who didn't lose someone at the World Trade Center. Sometimes due to the magnitude of the tragedy, there are too many people there and she can't get in. Instead, she postpones her visit by a few days. Hendricks family is still left wondering why this happened. According to WNYC.org, Detective Prate said there are no leads. At one point, there was a $12,000 reward for information in Henrik's case being offered from the NYPD and crime stoppers, but it's unknown if that is still available after all this time. If you have any information, about the murder of Henrik Sebiak, you can call 79th precinct detectives at 718 636-6655. So morphin kind of wrapping up this first case that we're talking about, there's a lot of interesting aspects to it. I think mostly because it occurred on 9-11.

But if you look at the details of the case, which there's not a lot of information to go on, I still go back to my earlier statement. To me, the most plausible thing seems to be, you know, that Henry was in a bad area, met someone who, you know, was intent on, you know, trying to rob him or to do something criminal. And he got shot and killed. And I think when Detective Prate says there are no leads, I can completely understand that. you know, how many murders occur on the streets of New York City where nobody sees what happens? Or if they do see what happens, they're not likely to come forward and give those details.

And not just New York City. You think all over the world. How many people are killed shot on a daily basis? And there's just no leads to go on and those murders go unsolved. it happens far too often. Even today with technology and more surveillance and stuff like that, there's still similar cases that go and solve than big cities. But what I really take away from this case is just how sad it is that

here's a hardworking guy, didn't have a lot of money, was trying to save up, send home what he could, willing to go to work as much as he could, seeking out work. And had he just decided to stay home that day, or, you know, if he hadn't mistakenly had the wrong route, and it would have gone to the right location, he'd probably still be alive today. And I'm worried that this case,

because there's nothing to go on, it's just never going to be solved, and his family will never, never get the answers or get justice. Yeah, I think it's going to be a pretty tough one to solve, especially after all these years. But, you know, you just brought something up that I think you could talk about in a lot of cases.

and it's these, what seemed like very small either decisions or missteps, right, the decision to go out, the taking the wrong route. If one thing goes differently, then it could change the entire outcome of a person's life. And, you know, it's a kind of a interesting, but very, very scary thought. As of October 22, 1, 106 people were still concerned. missing as a result of the attacks on 9-11. Dr. Snea and Philip was actually last seen on September 10, 2001, but many people believe that she was a victim in the attacks. Her name is listed on the memorial at the World Trade Center site. Because it's unknown exactly what happened to her, many consider this case an unsolved mystery. In July 1999, Snea and her fiancée, Dr. Ron Lieberman,

both started their residences. Snaia was an internal medicine resident at Cabrini Medical Center and Ron was an emergency medicine resident at Jacoby Medical Center. They had met as classmates in Chicago in 1996. Together, they moved to the Battery Park area of New York. On May 15, 2000, they got married. Snea seemed to enjoy her job, but she soon began to show up late and was sent home early multiple times, sometimes for being unfocused and once for showing up drunk. In May 2001, She learned that her residency contract was not going to be renewed. The next month, she filed a police report, claiming that a male co-worker had sexually assaulted her at a bar. She had hit him to defend herself.

The NYPD and the district attorney's office both found that her story was false. She was charged with assault, harassment, falsely reporting an incident and trespassing. Because apparently Snea had broken into the male. man's apartment trying to tell his wife about the incident at the bar. She maintained that she was telling the truth and that she was not making up the incident, but authorities didn't believe her. Family members, however, did. And they saw a change in Snea after that night. She became very withdrawn and began drinking excessively. And more if there's there's no way for us to know exactly what went into the investigation into this incident. All we know, we know,

is that at the conclusion of it, they didn't believe her. But I think there's no doubt that this started kind of a downward spiral in her life, right? Family said it. She became withdrawn. She started drinking excessively. So was that because it really did happen and the police didn't believe her or was there something else going on in her life? By September 2001, 31-year-old Snail was working at St. Vincent's Hospital in Staten Island.

On the 10th, she had a hearing at the Manhattan Criminal Court building. According to a detective Starks, she and Ron argued at the courthouse, and SNAIA left angrily. According to ABC News 7 New York, Ron was upset that Snaia was abusing drugs and alcohol and was conducting bisexual acts. However, Ron would later testify that this was not true. They went back home together around 10.30 a.m. after the hearing, and had breakfast. Snaia's plans for the day were to clean the apartment to prepare. her for a dinner with her cousins the next night. At around 11.30 a.m., Ron left for work. At around 2.30 p.m., Snea and her mom, Ansu, chatted online. Ansu remembered Snea as very excited about

her future. Ansu told ABC 7 New York, Snaia talked about having kids, telling her mom, Ron's going to be the greatest father in the world. She also told Ansu that she would be running errands for about an hour and sometime between 515 and 5.30 p.m. The dormant of her building saw her leave. At 5.30 p.m. Snea was seen shopping at a store called Century 21. The store was just a 12-minute walk from her apartment. She had told Ron previously that she wanted to buy a new coat from Century 21 for her birthday, which was coming up on October 7. Snaia visited multiple departments of the six-floor store, going to the fifth floor for women's coats, the third floor for lingerie, and the basement for betting, checking out at 605 p.m. before going to the ground floor and buying

three pairs of shoes at 7.18 p.m. Ron's American Express card was used for the purchases, creating a paper trail to help follow Snea's path. From there, it's believed that she used the exit on Broadway, but it's not certain. She has never been seen since the Century 21 camera captured her shopping. Employees there thought she may have been shopping with another woman, but they weren't positive, and this woman was not seen on video with Snea. The weather that night took a turn for the worst quickly,

with heavy rain and thunderstorms. Snaia was on foot, presumably, with $500 worth of clothes and shoes in just 12 minutes from her apartment, but she never made it home. At 11 p.m., the doorman at Snea's building finished his shift. He hadn't seen her return. At 11.30 p.m., Ron got home from work, but Snaa wasn't home. He figured she was at her brother John's apartment, which was about five minutes away. A week earlier, Snaa and John had argued, and Ron thought she was probably there trying to smooth things over. So he went to bed alone

that night. This was something he often did, as Snaia had a habit of staying out overnight without telling him where she was going. She would normally be home. between 7 and 9 a.m. Interestingly, at 405 a.m., Ron's cell phone received the call from the apartment's landline. He thinks he must have tried to check his voicemail in the middle of the night, but doesn't remember making the call.

So, Mark, there's a lot going on here. You know, we talked about the troubles that Snea had. It seemed like things were kind of going downhill for her. And then you have this relationship with her and Ron. It seems as though they argued quite a bit. And what really kind of stood out to me was, you know, her kind of staying out all night, many nights and not coming back home until seven, nine o'clock in the morning. We talked about her drinking.

Was she out, you know, at the bars and he was home alone? I don't know. It just, it seemed like there's so much going on. And we don't know all of it. Yeah, we don't know what the relationship was like or what, things they agreed upon or what things they expected of each other. But I think it's pretty clear that most partners wouldn't be okay with their significant other going out all night and then showing up in the morning and not have questions.

So again, was this something that they agreed upon and he was okay with? We really don't know. But one thing that really jumps out at me is this phone call at 405 a.m. when Ron's cell phone received the call from the apartment's landline, he says he doesn't remember making that call. I know, I think I would, if I woke up in the middle of the night to check my phone for some reason,

I think I would remember that the next morning. Maybe he was really out of it, or maybe he's like sort of a sleepwalker. But I think this call was a little bit mysterious, and people have had questions about this call over the years. Yeah, I think it's very mysterious. Do people do things, I guess while they're asleep technically that they don't remember the next day.

Yeah, people sleepwalked, you know, stuff like that. I don't know that I've ever made a call in the middle of the night. And I think the other thing that's a little strange is, you know, you're using the landline to check your cell phone messages. No, no, it just seems odd. I think it's also opened up the potential for theories that some people have had that maybe he wasn't home. He was out when this call came from the apartment.

And if that's the case, who called? And then other theories have Snea being home calling his cell phone for some reason. So we really don't know who made the call. All we know is that Ron doesn't remember making it. Well, we know he says he doesn't remember making it. But again, I think it's just one of the mysteries in this case. The next day on September 11th, Ron went to work like he would have. have on any other day, Snea was still not home. But at this point, Ron wasn't overly concerned.

By 9 a.m. after the chaos at the World Trade Center had started, Ron was calling the apartment, frantically trying to reach Snea and check on her after news of the attacks when she didn't answer. He thought she might be at work. But she wasn't scheduled to work at St. Vincent's that day. Then he worried. Maybe she had gone to ground zero, trying to attend to the many wounds. do. Ron's hospital, Jacoby Medical Center, had braced for a mass of patients, but the rush didn't happen as suspected. At 3 p.m. with no word from Snea, Ron asked permission to leave and search for her. Back at their apartment, the building was locked. He couldn't get in. There was normally a dormant at the open doors, but this was obviously not a normal day. It's not clear what Ron did during

the time he couldn't get into the apartment building. But around 2 a.m., Ron, Ron, went to a friend's apartment in the West Village to spend the night, since his building on Rector Place was still locked. When Ron got back into their apartment the next day, all of Snea's personal belongings were there, including her glasses, her passport, and driver's license, along with all of her credit cards. Apparently Snaia didn't take these things with her when she went shopping, and the things she had purchased weren't in the apartment. It seemed like she hadn't come home at all. Ron called around to Snaa's friends and family, but none of them had heard from her, although her mom did remember something.

She said that Snea had mentioned something about wanting to visit the Windows on the World, which was on the top floor of the North Tower. As a result of that, some people think that Snea must have made the unfortunate decision to visit Windows on the World for breakfast on September 11th. She had mentioned wanting to go, but there was no solid timetable of when she planned to. If she was on the top floor of the North Tower that morning, it doesn't answer the question of where she spent the night, but it would solve the mystery of her fate.

With no sign of Snea and resources stretched in due to the many other missing people on September 13th, Snaia's brother, John Philip, gave an interview and lied. He said he had been on the phone with his sister on September 11th, and she said she had to help someone that was hurt and couldn't leave the towers. This would later be explained as a desperate person, trying to get people to search for their missing loved one, but it seems weird to many. To invent a story, when you don't know what exactly did happen to the person you're looking for. It was also odd to create a story that had her most likely perishing in the rubble if you wanted people to be on the lookout for her around town. Ron Lieberman had apparently noticed interest from authorities and reporters

instantly drying up when he mentioned that his wife, Snea, was last seen on the 10th, not on the morning of the 11th. and her brother decided to create interest instead of just avoiding mention of the 10th. Some people believe that there could be a darker reason for this lie. There are a lot of people out there who think that Snea was murdered, but of course there are different opinions on who could be responsible for her death. I think we have to talk about the fight between Sna and her brother John. It was alleged in an NYPD police report that the fight centered around John walking in on Snea and his own girlfriend,

being intimate with each other on his couch. John not only denies that this ever happened, but he also denies that he ever spoke to Detective Starks at all, who made the report. Ron also denied that he and Snea had argued at the courthouse, and that he had reported being upset over Snea's bisexual behaviors. One of the places Snaia liked to frequent was a lesbian bar called Henrietta Hudson Bar and Grill.

Snai was often with other women when she would be out all night, but her family, including Ron, denies it was intimate or sexual in nature. She would listen to musical all night or pain. Her true calling was art. Being a doctor was just the family expectation. Some linked the incident in July, a reported sexual assault by a male co-worker, with an obvious reason she would be spending more time with women and going to more lesbian bars.

But others think she was living a secret life that her family disapproved of. This has led many to believe that SNAE was killed by those closest to her and that they happened to get lucky that resources were tied up the next morning by the tragedy of 9-11. But if it's somehow true that Snaia was in a relationship with a woman, it might help to ID her if she exists. Maybe she can help shed light on what happened to Snea. One odd thing we mentioned earlier was the 4 a.m. phone call to Ron's cell phone.

In the early morning hours of the 11th, it's kind of suspicious to many people. We said that Ron said he didn't remember making the call, but just kind of assumed. He woke up in the middle of the night to check his cell messages. some have wondered if Snea snuck back in the apartment and made the call while Ron was asleep. But if so, she should have been on surveillance footage and the doorman should have seen her return home. That didn't happen. If someone else was calling Ron from the apartment because he wasn't home, well, then the question is, who was it? And why were they in the apartment without him at 4 a.m? And where was Ron, if that was the case? It seems to be the rest of Snea's family that

believes or wants to believe that she was killed trying to help people at the World Trade Center. Ron isn't sure what happened to his wife. According to the website, Nataliepompilio.com, Ron said it's a different situation from the people who were known to work on the 104th floor. It's sadly clear what happened to them. With Snea, it's not so clear. We should point out that for most of the time that SNAIA's whereabouts are unknown, Ron has an alibi. Medical residents are almost always working or sleeping at the hospital. If Snea met with foul play and was killed, then her killer got very lucky that the 9-11 attack happened when it did, and where it did. It certainly caused chaos and confusion. As we mentioned earlier, Ron even noticed

that interest in his wife's case by police and the media subsided when it was clarified that she was last seen on September 10th, not the 11th. It may be what helped her killer get away with murder. Then again, clear evidence that SNAIA was murdered. If she was, how come her body hasn't been found? So I think that leads back to the possibility that maybe SNAIA really was at ground zero when the towers fell. Snaia and Ron's apartment was just blocks away from the World Trade Center with her medical training. She would have been a valuable responder at ground zero. Many theorized that she may have seen the first plane hit the tower and decided to run to try and help, not knowing. Both towers would eventually come down. Her location here, if this is what happened, is contested.

Most of the deaths on the ground before the towers fell were from debris and falling bodies. And many of those victims have been identified. The largest number of missing and identified people were above the point of impact in the tower and trapped. Triage areas were set up in medical personnel would have likely been kept outside of the towers, as authorities immediately began to evacuate the buildings. It makes more sense that injured people would be brought to safety and triaged on the ground than it does for authorities to bring doctors up to the top floors. Many people died that day, and of course it's possible that any people who could have saw Snai at the towers died there along with her.

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SNAIA. It's known that they were inside and that they perish there. There is a very bad quality surveillance tape from the camera in the lobby of Snea and Ron's building from the morning of September 11. That may point. to this possibility being a reality. At around 8.45 a.m., a woman who looks like she could be Snea, walks into the door, but ends up just running back out. Articles differ as to whether she checked her mail, waited for the elevator, or just stood in the lobby for a moment. But the footage has never been released to the public. So all we know is that someone entered the lobby and then left.

The sun was shining directly into the lobby's windows and it made it even harder. to see anything on the low quality footage. This was just before the first plane hit, and it's possible whoever is in this video could hear a very low flying plane and ran outside to investigate the noise. However, it's not clear that this person is Snea at all. She isn't holding any shopping bags, which still leaves the question of where she was all night

and what she did with the items she purchased. If she did return home that morning just before the attack, It seems that all scenarios that have SNAe alive and well on the morning of September 11th have a missing peace. A friend or loved one to say that she was with them in the hours leading up to that point. From 7.18 p.m. on September 10th, her whereabouts are unknown, and there's no record of her anywhere after that. No use on her bank accounts. No clear footage of her, nothing. If Snais was out on the night of the 10th, she was either alone or with someone who has never come forward. And we can only speculate why they didn't come forward.

Was it because they harmed Snea? Or was it possible that they had a relationship to Snaia that they just don't want other people to know about for whatever reason? If Snaia was having an affair with someone, maybe with someone who was also having an affair, would that person ever come forward? They might be afraid

that coming forward could jeopardize a relationship they have. I mean, it seems like it's just mystery after mystery. Because we don't know where she was. we don't know how she died. So you have all these different possibilities. And you have a lot of theories that you really can't take off the table. Now, this one that you just talked about is interesting.

We have no idea if she was having an affair. But let's just say for a moment that she was. Is that the reason why no one has come forward to say, oh, she was with me that night? because that person was also married or had a significant other than maybe they were still with and they didn't want that information disclosed. They didn't want to ruin their relationship. That's very possible.

Yeah, we've seen a lot of instances and cases where people aren't always forthcoming or honest with police and investigations. And it isn't always because they had something to do with a murder or the case itself, but maybe they were, you know, into drugs, dealing drugs or something and they were afraid if they cooperated that police would find out about their drug dealing or, as we mentioned, having an affair and they didn't want their significant other to find out. So it doesn't always mean that someone doesn't help in investigations because they were involved in something sinister.

So we talked about a couple of scenarios that may have brought SNAIA to the World Trade Center. One was that she may have gone there to a top floor restaurant. The second was that she went there to offer medical help. A third scenario is that she was at the World Trade Center, although not in the towers. There was a Marriott Hotel there that ended up taking heavy damage in the attacks. A landing gear from the first plane landed on the roof of the hotel and the collapse of the South Tower destroyed almost the entire thing. There were less deaths in Building 3 where the Marriott was located because they were. able to evacuate many guests before the towers collapsed, looking at news reports about this

building. It seems that mostly staff and firefighters were killed. If Snea was in that building and unaccounted for, she would have had to be staying with someone who likely booked a room in their name and either died there alongside her or survived and has remained silent. The one theory we haven't discussed is that Sna is actually alive and that she ran away and started a new life. We see this theory a lot in missing persons cases, but it's rarely true. Most recently, Alicia Navarro, who disappeared from Arizona as a 14-year-old, showed up in Montana, now 18 years old and alive. There was a submission to a project called Post Secret in the form of a card that was mailed that many think could have been from Snea. It reads,

Everyone who knew me before 9-11 believes I'm dead. The creator of the project received the card in 2012. We talked about how the events of 9-11 may have helped potentially cover up criminal acts, but those same events could have provided for someone who wanted to start a new life an opportunity to do just that. They could have pretended they perished on 9-11 and went on to start a new life. And many have theorized on different reasons why maybe Snea wanted to start a new life. Some have thought maybe it was because she was bisexual and afraid that she couldn't come out, or she didn't want to hurt her husband.

Or maybe she didn't want to be a doctor any longer, but she was worried that she'd disappoint her family by giving it up. So she could have used the opportunity to start over living her life on her terms. Maybe the woman possibly seen with her at century 21 described as an Indian woman with short hair, who was shorter than Snea, was part of the plant. But if Snea did start a new life, some things she may, may have needed were left behind. She didn't take her glasses or her driver's license, not even her credit cards. And there was no record of her withdrawing any extra cash in the

months before her disappearance, indicating that she was planning to leave in advance. If she's out there, she started over with seemingly nothing. And many think that if that's the case, someone else had to have helped her in some way and then kept quiet about it. And I think that's absolutely true. But I also think it's true that if you are planning to start a new life and you want people to believe that you're dead, you almost have to leave behind everything. You know, you can get new glasses. Obviously, part of the plan would have to be to form a new identity somehow and then, you know,

get a bank account and credit cards in that name. But you can't use your old credit card. because that creates a financial trail that doesn't prove that you're alive, but it proves that someone used your credit cards. I think that's what's frustrating in this case is there's just really not any indication one way or another. If she's off someplace living a new life or if she perished, there's no clear direction to go in with this case.

Looking at the items Senea bought at Century 21, the betting could be a potential clue that she was planning to sleep. away from her home, but it could also have been part of her preparation for her cousin coming to dinner. Maybe if they wanted to stay over, there would be fresh sheets. But what kind of new life or a new destination would require just linens, three pairs of shoes, a coat, and some underwear? It seems very likely that she was making a normal shopping trip and just never made it home for whatever reason. If Snaia left her old life, and she hadn't been preparing to run away in advance, she would have had to witness just blocks from her the worst terrorist attack in American history

and think through all that chaos and confusion, this is my chance. She would have had to instantly decide to leave everything behind. Her prescription glasses, her cat, her husband, her family, her money, and all stability, and run. But many people ask, how likely is that? And I think you mentioned it more, but in most of these cases, I just don't believe that, that is the most likely answer. And in many cases, it turns out later to to obviously not be the answer because someone is found to have met with foul play and it's determined. But is it possible? Absolutely. It's possible. I just don't think it's the most likelyest of outcomes. It turns out that

Snea is not the only person with no direct link to the World Trade Center that is believed by some to have died there. There are others. Juan LaFuante, a Cuban immigrant, worked eight blocks from the towers. He vanished on 9-11 as he was heading to work. His subway stop was just two blocks from the towers. His family believes that he saw the smoke billowing from the first tower and rushed to help since he was the fire marshal for his own building. But others argue that this position is much different than being an actual firefighter or rescue worker and that the main responsibility, for his position would be evacuations. He walked with a limb and wasn't in the best of health either. So while he may have had a good heart and wanted to help, he wasn't the most physically able. And during a fire, you're supposed to use the stairs. The towers each had 110 stories.

More likely, based on one deli owner's account is that Juan went to the World Trade Center for a free breakfast. Juan was speaking to someone at the deli, telling them that he had a meeting at the World Trade Center, and the owner overheard this. Flyers for a breakfast trade show at Windows on the World had been passed out at Juan's office. And according to his family, he was extremely frugal and likely would not have missed the free breakfast opportunity. 19-year-old Fernando Jimenez Molinor's family believes that he's another victim of the attacks. He moved to New York from Mexico when he was. was just 16 and made his way there as an undocumented worker. On September 11th, he didn't return to the apartment he shared with two other undocumented

workers. His family believes he worked in a restaurant washing dishes in the South Tower. His roommates were the ones to contact his family when he went missing. But soon after, they stopped cooperating and basically disappeared themselves since they were here illegally. Because he was undocumented, there's no official trace of him even being in New York, let alone being at the World Trade Center that day. His family just wanted a death certificate and his name to be listed in the memorials, but his name was ultimately not included in the official list of victims.

In 2006, Snea Philip was legally declared debt, with an official death date of September 10th as the day she died. A judge had found that there was no evidence. She was ever at the World Trade Center. Snea's husband, Ron Lieberman, and her family appealed this decision. And eventually, her name was added to the list of victims of the September 11th attacks. She is listed as number 2,751. But at the end of the day, we still really don't know what happened to Snea Philip. Ron Lieberman remarried in 2010 with the blessing of Snea's family, who he was still close to. He moved from New York and now lives in California.

If you have any information about the disappearance of Snea and Philip, you can call the NYPD missing person squad at 212 694-7781. So I think in wrapping up, you know, our talk on Snea Philip, like I said before, there's a lot of mysteries here, you know, where she was, where she went, how she died, was she at the World Trade Center? Was she with someone else? Was she the victim of foul play by someone who couldn't come forward, not only because they didn't want to be known as a murderer,

but because they were having an affair with sna. We just don't know. There's so many questions. And I think it's in large part what makes her case so fascinating. The backdrop of the World Trade Center attacks. And not so much that maybe the resources weren't there to investigate. That could be true as well. But it's more that she possibly could have been there.

because so many people were killed and some of them have still not been identified. That possibility exists that she was there. Yeah, the 9-11 attack has definitely overshadowed the case and really muddied the waters as far as the investigation. And for me, I think the key thing that's really missing, the one clue that might unlock the case is exactly where she was when she left that department. apartment store because that's the last time we know where she was. Where did she put all that stuff? It wasn't back at her apartment. So she had to put that someplace. And you can make the argument that

somehow she wound up at the World Trade Center the next morning. But in between that time, between shopping and the World Trade Center attack, she had to be someplace and those things she bought have to be someplace. And maybe if it could be determined where she put that stuff or who was with her, if anyone was whether it might shed more light on this case. Well, absolutely. I mean, if you could determine that she was with another person, then I think you really have a direction to go down because a lot of suspicion would be cast on whoever that is because you have to ask the question.

Why have they never come forward? And most likely it's one of two reasons. Either they had something to do with Snea's death or like, we said before, they didn't want to disclose the fact that they were with her because they were already in another relationship. But either way, that would shed a lot of light. And another scenario could be that they were with her and both of them wound up at the World Trade Center and perished together. Yeah, you know, this, this breakfast at the World Trade Center is kind of an interesting angle, her saying that she wanted to go there. Is it

possible that she went there and that she went there with this other person and they both perish so neither one of them could shed light on anything like you just said. I think that is possible. That's the thing with this case. There are a lot of possibilities, but very little in the way of corroborating anything. The families of the almost 3,000 people who died in New York as a result of the 9-11 attacks have had to deal with the terrible events of that day for 22 years now. As difficult as it may be, they do at least have the knowledge of what happened to their loved ones and who was responsible. For the families of Henrik Siviac and Snea and Philip, they too have had to deal with the anguish of losing a loved one, but as of now, they still have no idea what exactly happened to Henrik and Snea.

and just who was responsible. And I know we've talked about this before, Morph, but so many people have said that have unfortunately been in this situation that the not knowing can be the toughest part. It's always hard to lose a loved one, but to not know exactly what happened to them, where their remains are. So many people have said that that is just agonizing.

Yeah, and unfortunately, the terrible events of the day of 9-11 just have really overshadowed these two cases and maybe in a way prevented them from being fully investigated and having resolutions. Yeah, I'm sure that it played a role, definitely. But that's it for our episode on the cases of Henrik, Cviac and Snea Philip. If you love the show and you haven't done so yet, take a minute, go out, give us a five-star our rating, leave a review. Also, keep telling your friends. That word of mouth about the podcast really helps us out. If you want to find us on social media, we're on Twitter with the handle

at Criminology Pod. You can also find us on Facebook by going to facebook.com slash criminology podcast. And you can join our Facebook discussion group, criminology podcast, discussion in fans. So that's it for another episode of Criminology. But Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then, for Mike and Morph. We'll talk to you next week. Take care, everyone.