Criminology - Cari Farver

Episode Date: February 18, 2024

In 2012, Cari Farver was a 37-year-old single mother living in Iowa. She met Dave Kroupa on a dating website, and the two hit it off. But very soon into the relationship, Dave began receiving hateful messages from Cari. Then, the messages turned into stalking. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss Cari Farver. It wasn't just Dave Kroupa who was receiving threatening messages from Cari. Liz Golyar, whom Dave had dated before Cari, also began receiving them. This went on for years. There was one big problem, though, because although Cari was thought to be sending messages to people, no one had seen her in person over the years. It took multiple agencies to put the pieces of the puzzle together, and what they found out astounded everyone. You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology An Emash Digital production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if I told you there was yet another tool where you could get surface-level data insights and static, uninformative dashboards? There are 170 of these products, and, luckily for you, were not one of them. Hex is a new platform for working with data. We combine deep analysis, self-serve, and trusted context in one platform with purpose-built AI tools for data work. Over 1,500 teams like Ramp, lovable, and Anthropic use Hex. Learn why at hex.a.I. Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 295 of the criminology podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Mr. Morford. How are you doing, man? I'm doing good. I'm getting ready for sports weekend here. My son's got baseball games, football games.

My daughter's got a soccer tournament. So it's going to be a busy weekend for the Morphords. How about you? Oh, we're all doing great. I just was listening to you kind of tick off all of those to do things. And it really took me back to when my kids were young. And I know back then there were times where I said, oh, my gosh, I can't believe we have to go here and here and here and here. And now that the kids are gone out of the house off to college, I would love to have one of those weekends.

So enjoy it, man. Oh, definitely. Definitely. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Billy D. Brown Jr., Elizabeth Morris Wunch, Liz Jay, and Alyssa Gruen. So that's a lot of great new support. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks so much to everyone that takes the time to support the show.

It means a lot to us. And if you'd like to help the show, you can go to patreon.com slash criminology. So we're going to jump right into this week's case. And we have a very interesting one where a lot of people thought they wouldn't see any resolution. This case is so fascinating because the details surrounding what happened would make someone think that this was a case that would easily be solved. But in reality, it took two agencies to even realize that a crime had in fact occurred. This is a case that you have to hear about to believe. the murder of Carrie Farver. In 2012, Dave Krupa was living in Omaha, Nebraska, and working as an auto repair shop manager. The 35-year-old had recently moved to the area from Wisconsin to try and get a new fresh start in life after a breakup. He had two children with Amy Flora, but they couldn't make the relationship work, and it was time for something new for him. As many people know, if you've had a steady partner and haven't had to date or make connections,

trying to find and start a new one can be intimidating. Dave told ABC News, I didn't know how to venture back into the dating pool. I felt pretty rusty. So internet dating was the way to go. And I think about my own situation more, pretty rusty would be a euphemism. I mean, my wife and I have been together almost 30 years now.

I don't even know if internet dating was a thing back then. If it was, it surely wasn't, you know, to the point that it is today. And then my wife's going to listen to this and ask me why I'm talking about dating again. I'm not, honey, don't worry. But if I had to for whatever reason, pretty rusty would be an understatement for sure. I wouldn't even know where to start. Yeah, I think things have definitely changed since you and I got married and not our wife. So, yeah, it would definitely be a dawning task trying to get back into the dating pool.

Dave created a profile on the internet dating site plenty of fish. For months, he messaged with different women and even went on a few dates with the ones he matched with online, but no real sparks flew. The dates were enjoyable, the women were lovely, but he hadn't found anyone he felt like he was falling for or had a real connection with. At least one woman had stayed overnight at his apartment. So he was meeting people. He was making some connection.

but after such a long time in a serious relationship. He really just wanted to have fun too. He told Thesun.com, I was wild and free and I was determined to enjoy. I was definitely not looking for something serious. One day at work, a woman came in with her Ford Explorer. Dave found her extremely attractive and felt like there was a little spark between them when their eyes met. This woman was Carrie Farver.

a 37-year-old single mother who lived about 30 miles away across the state line in Macedonia, Iowa, with her son Max and her mom, Nancy Rainey. Dave immediately in their first interaction felt something, a spark. He told ABC, she's showing me something inside the vehicle and we're standing there and were very close. And there was some tension. Dave decided to ask Carrie out and she accepted. after dinner on their first date, Carrie ended up back at his apartment. They discussed what they wanted in the near future.

Carrie was clear that she wasn't looking for anything long-term or serious. Dave talked to both ABC News and to the sun, saying, I felt like I hit the jackpot with that. It was exactly what Dave wanted. He said, I had my personal space, but there was someone around when I wanted to chat or hang out. That was just what I needed at that time in my life. As she left Dave's apartment,

Carrie ended up walking past Shanna Elizabeth Gawyer, who went by Liz. She was heading to see Dave. He and Liz had been seeing each other casually for about six months. Liz hadn't told him that she was going to drop by that evening. She was just picking up a few things she had left from the last time she stayed over. Both of the women had been okay with casual open relationships, but it was still awkward to have them pass each other in his hallway. But Dave was relieved that they both seemed fine, and they both kept seeing Dave.

So it seems like it would be a little awkward this encounter. You're seeing two different women. One is at your house. One shows up at your place to, you know, pick some things up. Now, Dave said they both seemed fine with casual and open relationships. Some people are. Some people aren't. Yeah, it seems like they all wanted the same thing, at least on the surface.

but I wonder if there isn't some kind of jealousy when that kind of situation arises when two of the people that are dating the same person pass each other, even though they set out to have, you know, an open relationship, no ties, if it doesn't present some kind of jealous feelings. Yeah, I think it's very hard for jealousy not to creep in, no matter, you know, what anyone says. they may not make it known, but for there not to be some type of jealous feelings, I think that's pretty tough. On November 12, 2012, Carrie spent the night with Dave again. They had a great

night together and kissed each other goodbye in the morning before he left, leaving her there. His apartment was conveniently close to her office, where she worked as a computer programmer, so there was no point in her heading all the way home before going into work. According to People.com, the next time Dave heard from Carrie later that day was when she texted him a question. It read, do you want to move in together now? This surprise date, since he thought they were on the same page with what they wanted out of their relationship.

They had practically just discussed it. And she had been the one to say she didn't want anything. serious. As Dave would later tell ABC, it was very left field because we had already talked about that not happening. Dave replied with his obvious answer, which was that he did not want to move in together and that he was confused that she would even ask. Almost immediately, she texted him back angrily, fine, I hate you. I'm dating someone else. I don't want to see you anymore. Go away. Dave was confused and surprised, but almost glad to be done with it if things were going to be like that. Dave told ABC that at the time he was thinking, I don't need this. I dodged a bullet.

But these angry texts from Kerry continued saying things like, I hate you, you've ruined my life, you're a terrible person. Dave explained ABC, I didn't know what to think. I was blown away. day and night, both Dave's phone and the line at the auto shop received hanging up calls from a blocked number. And he couldn't help but think that it was Carrie, call him. Around this time, those who knew Carrie Best also began to receive odd messages from her. She texted her mom, Nancy, and informed her that she had taken a job in Kansas. Carrie had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder after a long battle with depression. That began when her son Max was born. Nancy told ABC that Carrie had been to therapy and had taken medication to treat the condition. By this point

in 2012, Carrie's son Max was in high school, and Carrie was doing very well working at the job of her dreams. The sudden change of plans was odd, even allowing for the possibility of any sudden mental health issues. Nancy was worried about this text. When she tried to call her daughter for more information or clarification, she didn't get an answer and never heard back from Carrie. When Carrie's half-brother's wedding passed, with no sign of her, Nancy knew something was wrong. Even if she really had taken a job in Kansas, why didn't she show up or tell anyone that she had changed her plans and wouldn't be there? Unsure what else to do, Nancy reported Carrie missing to police. According to author Leslie Rule in an interview with ABC, authorities brushed off Carrie's disappearance explaining when somebody who,

whose bipolar stops taking their meds. Sometimes they can start some really erratic behavior. And erratic was a very good word for this behavior from Carrie. Though she refused to call her own mother back, it seemed Carrie continued to harass Dave Krupa via email. According to ABC, one email read, I will do what I can to make you suffer. Other emails threatened to destroy Dave's life.

in addition to threatening and harassing Dave, Carrie was also sending other messages with a completely different sentiment in tone as well. One read, We belong together, Dave. So, you know, when you look at it, this seemingly back and forth behavior from Carrie did seem like it could be bipolar in nature.

So I think you take all this end morph and it does seem very strange. This relationship, that Dave had started with Carrey seemed to be going well. And then it was almost like out of the blue. She completely turned on him. He started receiving these very strange messages. And then, you know, you have her mother who's obviously concerned about her. Why would she just, you know, quit this job that she liked and moved to Kansas to take

new job. But I think it's really when she doesn't make this wedding that, at least for her mother Nancy, the alarm bells started to go off. Yeah. And I think most parents wouldn't just up and leave their child too. She's got a son at home and to just disappear without saying goodbye and take off for this mystery job. And just like her mom, I too would have been suspicious and worried that something wasn't right. But if you're Dave, what do you think it? This harassment is continuing. You know, it's, it's text and then it's emails and, and they seem to be going back and forth. I hate you. I'm going to destroy your life to we belong together. Yeah, definitely some mixed messaging there. And you have to wonder what he's thinking is, is he saying, okay, this is bizarre

and wondering why these messages are going back and forth from one extreme to the other? Or, you know, he's probably just not knowing what to think. Well, I think in the one quote, he said, I felt like I dodged a bullet. Like he is really finding out who she is. And you have to look at it from his perspective. If this is the type of person that he's connected to, would he rather find this out earlier in their relationship than later on? In late November 2012, Liz Gawyer, one of the women Dave was seeing, reported an incident to police.

According to her, someone had broken into the garage of her home she lived in in Persia, Iowa. To lay out where Liz lived in comparison to both Dave and Omaha and Kerry in Macedonia, Persia is about 37 miles northeast of Omaha and about 40 miles north of Macedonia. According to ABC News, during this reported break-in at Liz's home, someone had written whore from Dave in spray paint. After this, Liz also went to Dave's apartment and showed him a text message Carrie sent her. According to the sun.com, it read, I will do more if you don't leave Dave alone.

It's not clear just how Carrie would have had Liz's phone number in order to send her these texts. It seemed like harassing Dave and Liz, who Carrie had seen going to Dave's apartment, was the only thing she cared about. So now we're in the area of the harassment expanding. You know, it was at first seemingly centered on Dave. Now it seems as though Carrie has turned her sights on lit and has begun, you know, harassing her. And this is a point where I start thinking a little bit of like a fatal attraction here

where you see some, someone's doing some things that are targeting multiple people and it can be frightening. So to get these texts coming in and these messages and now it's two people, not one, it's sort of opening up a pattern of activity. Well, and my thought is Dave probably had to feel really bad about this, right? Liz being harassed because of a relationship that he had with the woman. I think what's really frightening about it is if you're in Dave and Lou's shoes, how would Carrie have even gotten Liz's phone number to be able to harass her? Because remember, they had never met.

They just passed each other one day outside of Dave's place. So the fact that she's now texting her, how did she get that information? What lengths would she have gone through to have that? And I think maybe the first obvious answer would have. have been that maybe she got it out of Dave's phone while she was staying overnight. That would be maybe the most obvious answer they would have come up with. Carrie's son, Max, turned 15, and Carrie didn't show up to celebrate or even wish him a happy birthday.

However, she did text and promised she was going to pick him up, but she never showed. She didn't come home or contact anyone for Thanksgiving that year. eventually she didn't even attend her father's funeral. Her mother, Nancy, knew this was not just a result of bipolar disorder, medicated or not. Nancy continued to get texts from her daughter and soon noticed that they were not respectful. She told ABC News that they began saying that I wasn't a good mother and that I was controlling. She also noticed that not only were the texts mean,

they were often spelled incorrectly, which was another thing that didn't sit right with her. Carrie was a stickler for punctuation and spelling, according to Nancy. In Nancy's mind, it was almost like it wasn't even Carrie sending those texts. As much as Dave was able to ignore most of Carrie's emails, he couldn't ignore what started happening next. One night, he was home alone, relaxing in his recliner, when Carrie sent him a text. According to ABC News, it read, I see you. You're sitting in your chair with your feet propped up,

wearing a blue shirt. The text was terrifying, and Dave told ABC News, those things were true. It was clear now to Dave, Carrie wasn't just texting him, she was watching him. One night, as Dave drove home from work,

he noticed the Ford Explorer parked in a parking lot. It was January 2013, just a few months after he had worked on Carrie's Explorer, when she brought it into his shop. Dave was certain that this, This was her car, and it was parked near his home. He snapped the quick picture of the license plate and drove home. Dave called the Omaha Police Department and reported this information about Carrie's vehicle.

Authorities arrived and verified that it was indeed Carrie's Explorer. They performed the thorough search of the car, including checking for prints, but found just one single fingerprint. It was on a tin of mince that had been left inside, but the print didn't match anyone in the FBI's database, and it also wasn't the fingerprint of Carrie Farver. It belonged to someone else. At that point, the explorer was impounded.

Now, Morfew and I have done a lot of cases. And many of those cases have involved stalking-like behavior. Most often, it's a male, stalking or harassing a female. But just like with any crime, we know that women are capable of this type of stuff as well. But just stalking in general, this type of. this type of stuff so scary that someone is texting you i see you i this is what you're wearing this is what you're doing that would freak me out yeah so that really had to ramp up dave's paranoia and the sense of security of of what can she see how you know is she watching me all at all

times so he's he's probably nervous and looking over his shoulder at this point and then this just adds a whole other piece to this mystery because Carrie is out there missing, yet here's her explorer that turns up that Dave finds. And when the police search it, they find one single fingerprint in the vehicle. And that's concerning. It doesn't belong to Carrie. And there should be lots of fingerprints in there. You know, think of driving to work every day, going shopping, whatever.

There should be prints all over the inside of your vehicle. So to me, that's a big red flag. that somebody has wiped this vehicle down because there should have been a lot of prints in there. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency?

We just walked in the door, and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved, until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, Blood and Water,

Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. What if I told you there was yet another tool where you could get service-level data insights and static, uninformative dashboards? There are 170 of these products, and luckily for you, we're not one of them. Hex is a new platform for working with data. We combine deep analysis, self-serve, and trusted context in one platform with purpose-built AI tools for data work. Over 1,500 teams like Ramp, Lovable, and Anneness. Use Hex. Learn why at hex.AI. In April 2013, Nancy Rainey received the call from an unknown male, claiming that Carrie had been found at a homeless shelter and needed a ride.

Elated to know that her daughter was safe, Nancy rushed to the shelter, only to find out that Carrie had never even stayed there. She told ABC News, it was such a letdown, and I was just devastated, adding, I get that. this raising in my hopes and then it's dashed again. I knew somebody was playing games here. By May, Max was fed up with the entire situation. He wanted to know where his mom was, once and for all. He sent Carrie a message on Facebook and got a response that read, Hey, little man, how are you? Before continuing the conversation any further, Max asked Carrie three questions to prove that it was really her he was talking to what his middle name was, what the name of their first dog was, and what his best friend's name was.

She never replied to answer his questions. And to him, that was an indication that it really wasn't his mom he was communicating with. Text and email supposedly from Carrie continued coming to both Dave and Liz, who continued to see each other despite the harassment. Dave told ABC News, it was actually extremely common for us to be hanging out on a couch, watching TV or something, and both of our phones would start blowing up with text messages and emails from Kerry. When they weren't together, the messages kept coming. One very serious message terrified Dave.

It was a photo of a bound woman in the trunk of a car. The text sent with the photo included a threat to murder Liz. Dave immediately called Liz, who was physically unharmed, but shaken by the message sent to him. Later that day, Dave received the link to a fake obituary for Liz. In August 2013, the threat to kill Liz nearly came true. A fire destroyed Liz's home and killed her cat, two of her dogs, and her pet snake. After investigators determined that arson was the cause of the fire, Liz pointed the finger at Carrie Farber, the only person with any motive to harm her.

After this, Dave acquired a 9-millimeter Smith and Wesson gun. to be able to protect himself. He knew Carrie had been watching him when he was alone inside. And now she had burned down Liz's house and killed her pets. If Carrie knew about the purchase of the gun, she seemed undeterred. The auto shop that Dave worked at, the one where they met was vandalized and he immediately suspected Carrie. By January 2014, the harassment increased.

One night, Heather Twet, who David had known. known since high school was over visiting at his apartment. She witnessed Dave receive a flurry of text messages just before they heard someone in the hallway twisting Dave's doorknob. When he looked, there was no one there. Later the same night, Dave and Heather were laying together in his bed when a brick came crashing through the window. The harassment expanded. Dave's ex, Amy Flora, had also begun to receive threatening text messages from Carrie. Literally anyone and Dave's life was fair game for these messages. Even as time passed, they didn't slow down her stop.

By the spring of 2015, it had been over two years since anyone who wasn't being harassed by Carrie last heard from her. Around this time, two detectives from the Pottawatomie County Sheriff's Office heard about what was going on. Jim Doty and Ryan Avis decided to work the case together with fresh eyes, but from competing angles. Detective Avis told ABC News, Jim's going to work it like she's dead, and I'm going to work it like she's alive. I'm going to try and prove every which way I can that Carrie is still out there. And Jim is going to try and prove every which way that she is not.

So one thing that I really want to talk about is how much time has gone by? You just mentioned it more two years by the spring of 2015, since anyone who wasn't being harassed had heard from Kerry. And to me, it's almost as if there hasn't been up to this point where detectives, Doty and Avis come into the picture, a lot of effort to try to find Carrie. Now, we don't know how much police work had gone in, but there didn't seem to be much about it in the research. Yeah, you have Carrie reported missing. And it seems like it's just assumed by everyone at this point that she's,

gone off but is still leading this clandestine attack on Dave and Liz of harassment. But in reality, no one knows where she's at her. If she's safe, she could be the victim of a crime herself. And what surprises me, there's this big trail of electronic messages, emails, text, calls, things like that. How much of any of that was checked? You check for phone pings, try and find her phone. If you can locate that, then maybe that will help you find out what happened where she's at.

And one way or the other, you know, help her out if she's at risk or has been harmed or if she's the person responsible for this harassment to catch her and bring her in for that. So one way or another, I'm just surprised that they didn't try and follow those leads earlier. But now we have these two detectives. And it's interesting that they're going at it from opposite angles. The detective started with her bank account records because even if her erratic behavior had been caused by bipolar disorder, that wouldn't have meant she didn't need any of her money to survive. But there had been no activity on any of her accounts since November 2012.

This was a red flag. And Detective Avis told ABC News, news, news, it's not normal for adults to just up and leave and literally spend no money. While it was his angle to try and prove Kerry was still out there, he kept coming up short. He could come up with no reason for her to leave saying she had good income, a good house. I had come to the conclusion that I could not prove she was actually a lot. And for my part, I would add in there, you know, her son. I just think that's such a huge part in this case as well.

You know, she lived with her mom. She had a good relationship seemingly with her mom. None of that makes any sense either. For his part, Detective Doty found it odd that while Kerry wasn't regularly contacting anyone she was closely related to, not her son, not her mom, for example. She was consistently messaging Liz, who was essentially a stranger. to her. That jumped out to Detective Doty, who told ABC News, after Carrie went missing, all of a sudden, she's this focus of harassment. As he looked through the case file, he noticed

a pattern. He said to ABC, Liz's name was all over, all of the reports. So to me, there was something with Liz. She definitely was a person of interest. The detectives began to take a closer look at Liz and found that she and Dave had both let Inventus, Investigators download their cell phone data in 2013 when they first began to report being harassed. Looking through her phone, the detect has found a picture of Carrie's Ford Explorer, which was suspicious on its own. The date was what really caught their eye. The photo had been taken almost a month before Dave had seen it and reported it to the authorities. For at least one month, Liz had known where Carrie's car was when no one else could track her down. Also interesting

was that there were six calls placed to Carrie's house from Liz's phone. All six calls had been made using Star Six-seven to hide Liz's number from Carrie. This went against the story that Liz didn't know Carrie, and that they had only ever seen each other one time in the hallway at Dave's apartment. There was also proof that a video uploaded to YouTube using Carrie's name, showing the outside of Dave's apartment, was actually uploaded from an IP address that belonged to Liz. Liz had gone from being a potential target of carries

to possibly being responsible for disappearance. So we've talked a lot about these incidents of harassment. And I think we have to drive home, just how extensive this campaign of terror was. Anthony Kava, a digital forensics administrator with the Potawatomi County Sheriff's Office, told ABC News, the imposter who was pretending to be carried,

sent Dave about 15, thousand email messages over a three years span. It might have been upwards of 25,000 or 50,000 texts in all. So think about that for a second. That's potentially around 65,000 messages sent to Dave in total over three years. That's more text than emails than some people will send in a lifetime. So it's clear to see why Dave would have been nervous. and feared for his safety. This is, like you said, more of some real fatal attraction level stuff that he's up against. And I can tell you right now, I guarantee I will never send 65,000 text messages in my entire life.

I'm not a big texter. You and I text every now and then, but it's normally just informational stuff. I don't have whole conversations like some people do via text. Now, I do, I am guilty of sending and receiving lots of emails. I'm actually looking at my phone now as I'm recording this. And I can see I have like 12,000 emails, uh, total that I've sent and received. And, um, my kids are always making fun of me because the amount of emails that I have. And then they look at my text messages and they're like, you have 380 unresponded text.

So I, I do communicate a lot, but still say. 65,000. Those are over my lifetime of having these accounts. This is 65,000 over a three-year period. That's just incredible, that number. Well, and a lot of the stuff that that you and I do is probably for the podcast. You know, if you think about it, emailing and, and things like that. I do a lot of emailing, but it's normally related to the podcast or, or, business or something like that. Yeah, and this is 65,000 messages that are just for pure harassment and nothing else. Detectives Avis and Doty visited Nancy Rainey in 2015. They assured her that at this point in their investigation,

not only did they believe Carrie really was missing and hadn't been hiding of her own free will, they were working hard to figure out exactly what happened to her and who was responsible. As she walked the detectives through the timeline of her daughter's disappearance, Nancy revealed an important clue. Just after the last actual contact with Carrie that she had, Nancy received a text message asking her to unlock her apartment because someone was coming to pick up her furniture. She said she had sold all of it and sent a picture of a check made out to her from a Shanna

Gullier, as in Shanna Elizabeth Liz Goliere, the woman who was supposedly being harassed by Carrie. With all this information, the detectives decided to run Liz's fingerprints against the single print found on the mint tin in Carrie's car. It matched. She was now the prime suspect in Carrie's disappearance, but police still needed to figure out what she had done to carry. Not long after the detectives caught on to Liz's involvement in Carrie's disappearance,

Dave Prupa called the police to report that his 9mm pistol had been stolen. Meanwhile, he and Liz continued to be harassed by who Dave thought was Carrie, but who police thought was likely Liz. So there's a couple of things that were running. through my head here. One was about Nancy, who I can only imagine what she was

going through over the years, never probably believing that Carrie would just abandon her, abandoned Max. Well, now she has these detectives who are telling her that they

don't believe that Carrie just willingly left her family. That had to have caused a range of emotions. But at least now someone seems as though they're really looking into it from that perspective. But the other thing that that I was thinking about was Dave. You know, Dave is still in some sort of relationship with Liz. I think they're bonded in some way over the harassment that they're both receiving. And you have to wonder at what point do police go to Dave and say, you know, hey, we think Liz might be behind this.

I'm sure they had to be really careful there. Yeah, it's, it's just, you know, at what point do you say, okay, this guy's safety may be at risk and we have to tell him. I understand you want to protect maybe your investigation, but if his life could be in danger, you have to take him out of that situation or make him aware so he can, you know, maybe protect himself or distance himself from her. Well, and I think after you report that your 9mm is stolen, that kind of ups the ante a little bit, maybe.

But like you said, they do have to protect the investigation. They also have to prove some things. You can't go around calling people out when you don't have, you know, all of the facts to back it up. But it's just a really precarious situation. That's what I was thinking. On December 4th, 2015, Liz visited the Potawatomi County Sheriff's Office to file a new report. According to her, she was still being harassed, but this time it wasn't Carrie Farver messaging her. It was Dave's ex, the mother of his children, Amy Flora. Detective Avis visited Liz at home. to interview her, she cooperated thinking he was investigating her new harassment claim.

She informed him that she didn't think Kerry had been the one harassing her at all. She now believed that all of the texts and emails had been from Amy. She also mentioned that Dave's gun, which she specified was a 9mm Smith & Wesson had been stolen. Detective Davis told ABC, she realized that she probably should, shouldn't know any details about the gun. And then any further questions I asked about the gun, she was very vague. Detective Avis asked if she would consent to another phone download, like the one she had consented to in 2013. She agreed and signed a release form, allowing investigators to search her phone. And this was a huge help to the detectives.

She basically handed them access to everything they needed to, confirmed their suspicion. On December 5th, the day after Liz met with Detective Avis, she called 911. She had been shot in the leg in Big Lake Park in Council Bluffs, Iowa, just over the border from Omaha. It was dark and there were no witnesses. At first, she said she had no idea who could have attacked her. But it wasn't long before she told investigators she suspected it had been Amy Flora. To Detective Avis, the shooting was awfully suspicious. He said to ABC, I found it highly suspicious that the day before she felt the need to tell me that Dave Krupa's gun had been stolen. And less than 24 hours later, she shot.

Authorities clear to Amy of all involvement the same night of the shooting. They believe that Liz stole Dave's gun and used it to shoot herself in the lake. And more of, I think your reference of fatal attraction early on is just proving itself out as we move forward through this case. I mean, the lengths that. that police believe at this point, Liz has gone to, the harassment. Then you have kind of bringing Amy into it. And I think there was a, there was some harassment of, of Amy as well. I think there was some fear there on her part about her and Dave's kids.

And then the police believing that Liz shot herself in, in the leg. I mean, we're not boiling. rabbits on the stove, but we're getting close. Spoiler alert for the movie, by the way. Spoiler alert, if you haven't seen fatal attraction by now, I'm not spoiling anything. That movie is, I don't want to say as old as you and I, because it's not, but it's old. While all of the drama surrounding the shooting was unfolding, police tech Anthony Kava was digging into the new download of Liz's phone. He found a lot of evidence, which will probably make a lot of people wonder why she voluntarily allowed this search in the first place,

more than 20, maybe even 30 email addresses with some form of the name Carrie or Farver in them had been created using her phone. Kava also found an app that scheduled text messages to go out at certain times. And this app was a key part of the plan. This was how Liz made it seem like Carrie was harassing both her and Dave when they had been together. This would have curved any suspicion of Liz on Dave's part because how could Liz be sending the texts if they're together when the texts are coming in? Looking through everything that Liz had sent in all of the accounts she had created. Kava believed that she spent almost 50 hours every week harassing Dave, those in his life

and herself. He said to ABC News, this seemed to be a full-time occupation for her, trying to stalk people and send them messages. And this notion of Liz voluntarily allowing the police to search her phone, it was kind of a head scratcher to me. I don't know if she thought she was just a lot smarter than she actually was, that she had done enough to cover her tracks. I think that's pretty tough when a highly trained police forensics person is going to get a crack at it.

And then you think about spending 50 hours a week estimated, just harassing people and setting all this stuff up. I don't even want to work 50 hours a week. I certainly don't want to work a job and then spend 50 hours on top of that, trying to to set up this elaborate hoax. The whole thing is mind-boggling to me. Yeah, when you look at the totality of everything that's going on here, and it goes back to this 65,000 messages, of course, it was a 50-hour-a-week undertaking.

I mean, just the time to plan that stuff and type it out, and, you know, just it's mind-boggling to think that someone could do that. But it was interesting. to me when it came out that, you know, she was using this app to schedule the text. Because, you know, you think about it. Let's say Liz and Dave are at his apartment. They're sitting on the couch. They're just watching TV. All of a sudden, their phones start blowing up. Well, she has to have a way of those texts coming in where she's not sitting there sending them. I mean, obviously he would figure that out pretty quickly. So there was,

Some devious stuff here on her part. Fresh air, longer days, a chance to reset. This season let therapy be part of your spring cleaning. Clearing mental clutter, shaking off stuckness and building something better. Grow therapy helps you get there. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 15th, grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around.

They connect you with thousands of independent licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. and get started in as little as two days. And if something comes up, you can cancel up to 24 hours in advance at no cost. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time.

Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. Sessions average about $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0. $0 depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash book now to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash book now. growtherapy.com slash book now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

What if I told you there was yet another tool where you could get service level data insights and static, uninformative dashboards? There are 170 of these products and, luckily for you, we're not one of them. Hex is a new platform for working with data. We combine deep analysis, self-serve, and trusted context in one platform with purpose-built AI tools for data work. Over 1,500 teams like Ramp, Lovable, and Anthropic use Hex. Learn why at hex.a.I. It was easy for detectives to bring Liz in for an interrogation

because she thought it was just an interview regarding who shot her. She insisted that it was Amy who attacked her and had been harassing her and wanted the detectives to look into her closely. They decided to play along and told Liz that they needed her to help to get more evidence of Amy's guilt. Liz gave them exactly what she thought they would need, and their plan worked. Detective Doty told ABC News,

we started receiving messages that she said were from Amy, where Amy confesses to shooting Liz at Big Lake Park. They told Liz they needed more of her help, especially when it came to proving that Amy was involved in Carrie Farver's disappearance.

Soon, Liz forwarded the detective's emails, she said were from Amy, that included gruesome details of Carrie's murder, not just information about her disappearance. According to ABC News, This message that was supposedly from Amy indicated she had stabbed Carrie at least three or four times

and then placed her dead body into trash bags. The quick escalation here from disappearance to murder was shocking. Detective Doty said that the details were bone-chilling because they were very graphic. They were left to wonder and eventually try to prove if Carrie had died the way the message said she did. Liz was upset with police, that Amy wasn't in custody with all that she had confessed to

the detectives told her that they didn't quite have enough information to make an arrest stick. They needed something from Amy that they could use to prove she committed the murder. And right on time, another email was sent, this time with even more details. The new message revealed that Carrie had been murdered in her own vehicle. With a crime scene to examine, investigators went back to search Carrie's Ford Explorer, which was still in their possession. During this search, they removed the outer fabric from the seats of the car, revealing red stains on the passenger seat.

Testing determined that the stains were from Carrie Farver's blood. Only Carrie's killer would have known that the car was the scene of her murder. Investigators had been in it twice and had not noticed anything wrong. And as we mentioned, they only found one fingerprint. So in their minds, Liz had done an extremely. good job, cleaning it and hiding evidence. Omaha Police Department, Detective Dave Schneider, asked Liz to come in to the station.

Since Kerry had been killed in Omaha, the Potawatomi County Sheriff's Office needed the cooperation of the authorities in Omaha. Detective Schneider informed Liz that they were on to her and that all of Amy's emails had come from her IP address. He also told her about the photos they found on her cell phone download. She denied all of it and said she didn't even have an IP address, since she didn't have home internet service. Officers with a search warrant went to Liz's apartment

while she was being interrogated by Detective Schneider. They found Carrie Farver's digital camera and her camcorder in Liz's belongings. There was still a video of Carrie on the camcorder from just two days before she disappeared. She was discussing recent harassment. Someone had vandalized her car. Finally, the police felt that they had enough to charge Liz. And on December 22nd, 2016, over four years, after Kerry's disappearance, Shanna Elizabeth Gullier was arrested and charged with her murder.

Before trial, Dave Krupa found a tablet. He had been keeping in storage and remembered that the micro SD card inside had once belonged to live. So he turned it over to the investigators. Kava found thousands of deleted photos, but he was able to restore every single one. The most damning image on the micro SD card was a picture of a human foot with a tattoo on it. The tattoo, a Chinese symbol meaning mother, matched Carrie Farver's tattoo. Kava told ABC News, it was shocking. It made me realize that Liz Gawyer killed Carrie Farver and she's taking photos of her body. And if I've said it once, I swear I've said it a hundred times.

people think that deleting things means that they'll be gone forever. Well, Anthony Kava will tell you differently. And he proved it. You know, the technology is such that they can retrieve deleted photos, emails, you know, all kinds of stuff. And really, you know, the IP addresses and all of the stuff they uncovered was, was very damning, but you have to look at this photograph as kind of the capper. Liz has a photograph of Carrie Farver's foot.

And this wasn't, you know, a picture of someone sitting on a couch and you just happen to catch their foot in a photograph. This is a picture of a human foot. And it's very obvious at what you're looking at. it's very damning evidence. Yeah, I think it just adds to the, the bizarreness and the level of just how dangerous and serious this situation is, that it seems that Liz has gone through these to these great lengths to do all of this.

Obviously and understandably, news of Liz's arrest and what police had on her was all extremely hard for Dave to come to terms with. This was a woman he had been casually dating for a long time. He had trusted her. She had been in his home countless times. He told People magazine, Up till then, every time Carrie's name came up,

I wanted to throw up, adding, then to learn that she's not only not at fault, but she's been murdered. And Liz, the person who I leaned on was responsible for killing Carrie, it's still hard to even process.

And you can put yourself in Dave's shoes. He was so manipulated by Liz Gawley. And we talked about the fire of her house where her pets died. And then you start to think most likely Liz set that fire just to perpetuate this route. And in maybe some way to get back into Dave's life, right? Because Dave's a good guy. He's going to want to support her, give her a shoulder to cry on.

Her house is just burned down. So I think for him to find out that she was behind all of this, it had to have just thrown him into a tailspin. Liz waived her right to a jury trial and requested that a judge be the one to determine her guilt or innocence. Her defense attorney James Martin Davis explained the reasoning for this telling ABC, we waived the jury trial to move it up. So I could try this case, hopefully before. they'd find a body. As it stood, with Kerry still missing, Davis felt there was a chance that the prosecution wouldn't be able to prove their case. He added, not only was there no body, there was no crime scene, there was no murder weapon, there was no proof that she even died.

Ultimately, Judge Timothy Burns found Liz guilty of first degree murder, saying, Carrie Farver did not voluntarily disappear and drop off the face of the earth. Very sadly, she was murdered. Judge Burns sentenced Liz to life in prison without the possibility of parole and added an additional 20 years for the arson fire of her own residents. The Omaha Police Department released a written statement to ABC News that really sums it all up. It read, The unusual nature of this case and the great lengths at Shanagolliur went to hide the. this homicide undoubtedly perplexed everyone involved.

The successful investigation between the Omaha Police Department and the Pottawatomie County Sheriff's Office resulted in the successful prosecution of Shanna Goliur and brought to light an extreme level of deception that law enforcement rarely encounters. And I would say that's absolutely true. You know, this level of deception, I don't know how many times we've seen it rise to this level, right? There's always deception. There's manipulation in a lot of the cases that we do. But this was at such a massive level that it's almost staggering to think about. The number of years, the messages, the setting your own house on fire, intentionally killing your

own pets. I mean, who thinks of all this stuff? And I think most people can't fathom that someone is to disturbed enough to do all this and go through these great lengths to make all this happen and to carry this out and put it in the time and effort that she did. It's just, it's just frightening to even think about. And one thing more of that I can't stop thinking about is that, you know, this relationship between Dave and Liz,

which essentially seems to have kickstarted everything, right, with the introduction. of Carrie, that he started dating Carrie. It's not like they had been together for 20 years. They'd only been dating Dave and Liz for months. I just don't understand how she became so enraged and so fixated in that short period of time that it led to not only the harassment, but murder. And this, this is a woman that's supposed to.

Leslie said she was okay with no commitments and dating other people and things like that. But it seems like she really wasn't. And I wonder if anyone that Dave was dating, if she might have become Liz's victim, had she been walking out of his apartment that day? I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment. Sadly, it just happened to be Carrie Farther. From behind bars at Nebraska Correctional Center for Women, Liz Gawleyer continues to maintain her innocence. She even writes letters about it to anyone who will listen. One such letter she wrote to author Leslie Rule read in part, I will not stop fighting until I am set free and they find the right person. Detective Avis and Doty and Investigator Kava teamed up to create the

Kerry Farver Memorial Scholarship at Iowa Western Community College. The scholarship supports students studying information technology. It always blows me away, you know, these individuals who maintain their innocence, they say, well, you know, I'm not going to stop fighting until they find the right person.

The evidence against this woman was so overwhelming. But I guess what does it hurt her, right, to maintain her innocence? What's in it for her to actually come out and say, you know what, you're right. You got me. I did all of this. But it just seems like delusional thinking to me. Yeah, it's almost like they just can't bring themselves sometimes to say, you know, admit what they did, despite all the evidence against them, despite the fact

they've been convicted. They just refuse to say the words. Yes, I did it. And you got me. Although Kerry's remains have never been found, the arrest and conviction of her killer has meant a lot to Carrie's family. Her mom Nancy, speaking of the police work in the case, told ABC, those guys, they mean the world to me. I can't thank them enough. They're my boys. Dave echoed the sentiments, saying, Doty, Avis, Kava, they're all heroes. And Detective Doty said, to us as detectives, it's a win because we have somebody behind bars. But at the same time, we're also telling a mother that her daughter has been killed. He added, it's a very sad outcome for Carrie's mother.

I'm sure there was a part of her that still had hope that maybe Carrie would come back someday. It wasn't a joyous occasion by any means. Dave has moved away from Omaha and continues to date, but much more carefully. He told Time Magazine, if I'd have known the choice was this craziness or tell Carrie I'm not interested, I would have told Carrie I'm not interested, but you don't get that choice. And I really feel for date, you know, throughout this entire. thing. I feel for Carrie's mom. I also feel for Max. I mean, you know, we haven't talked about him all

that much, but he lost his mother. And for a number of years, had to feel both he and Carrie's mother had to feel that Carrie just abandoned them, extremely tough. Yeah. And then to realize later on that, you know, she didn't abandon them. She didn't run off that it was. the fact she had just run across someone who was a dangerous person and for whatever reason decided to take her life. You know, it's just, it was an unfortunate thing that they had to think that she left them.

This crime is as terrifying as it is sensational and complex. All Kerry did was hit it off with a stranger looking to have fun, not looking for really a serious commitment. If she had left his apartment at him, night just a bit earlier. Would she and Liz have ever crossed paths? Putting a target on her back, Nancy Rainey told ABC that she hopes that her daughter, Carrie Farver, will be remembered as the fun-loving, talented, smart woman that she was. Dave added, Carrie Spirit and Drive marked her out as different from the rest of the woman I had met, adding that she was out of my league. So, Morphus, we

wrap this one up, this is an extremely fascinating, also sad case. We've detailed out the links that Liz went to, including the murder of Carrie Farver. But I do think there are a lot of questions still. You know, why did police not really try to track Carrie's phone, where it was pinging from. Same with her social media. You know, there were Facebook messages coming from her account. What police work early on was done to, you know, try to figure some of that stuff out. And I don't know that there was all that much or I think they could have figured out what Liz was up to much, much sooner.

Yeah. And this wasn't, you know, like an anonymous letter coming up. in the mail with no way to track it. This was an electronic trail. These messages were all tied to electronics. And, you know, it was a decade ago, but I'm sure even back then they could track a lot of stuff and ping towers and things like that. So it's still a little bit surprising that they didn't do any of that stuff sooner and try and connect dots and figure out where Carrie was that way. Well, I just wonder how much of it was a result of, you know, the fact that, was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and the police just thought, well, she's an adult.

She has the right to leave her family and up and move to Kansas if she wants and that type of thinking. Because we've heard that type of thinking in other cases before. Yeah, especially if this is a person that has a family, a home, a job, things that they normally wouldn't walk away from. That has to raise some rights. red flags. I mean, to her son and to her mom, they didn't think Harry left on her own. So, you know, it didn't seem like from the beginning that it was a case of her just running off to some mystery life while still choosing to target Dave and Liz here. And I think that's the big difference, right? This isn't a person who just disappeared where police could say, well,

they have the right to do that, there was criminal behavior that was thought to have been being perpetrated by her, you know, this stalking, this harassment. So, you know, not looking into that aspect of it seems to be very strange to me. Yeah, one thing that jumped out to me that sort of was a hole in Liz's campaign of terror, her claims, you know, she mentioned, that she was being harassed by Carrie. But it doesn't add up how would she have been being harassed by Carrie if their interaction was supposedly a one-time encounter where they walked by each other outside of Dave's apartment.

That would indicate if Liz was being truthful that somehow Carrie had tracked her down and gotten her information and, you know, how would that have happened? Well, and I mentioned that, you know, Dave and Liz hadn't been dating all that long. Dave and Kerry had been dating even less time. So to think that in that short period of time where she had just started dating Dave, she was so threatened by this woman lives that she started this campaign of terror, just none of it makes sense. Now, obviously it doesn't make sense now because we know the full story.

But it really doesn't make sense if you look at it from the very beginning. And then, you know, we've mentioned kind of the fatal attraction aspect a couple of times. You really get that sense. That movie still today is very scary in the fact that someone could become so fixate on a person that they would not only try to ruin their life. They would try to end their life and maybe the lives of anyone else around. them. Yeah, and that fatal attraction movie is from, what, 1987 or something like that. If that, if they made that movie nowadays, there would be a whole digital aspect to it because

you could do a lot more things and cover your tracks from the anonymity that, you know, social media and, uh, emails and cell phones can provide you. Yeah, it's very easy to create email accounts, right? What's it take? Two minutes? to create an email account. But, you know, as we wrap this one up, while doing the research for this case, I thought it was very scary, the links that this woman went to.

Not to mention the fact that, you know, she took a 37-year-old woman's life, a mother, a daughter, and just the elaborateness of the cover-up and all the stuff she did, It was just astounding to me. And I also found it ironic that the tools that she used, the electronics, the phone to harass Dave is what ultimately brought her down because she held on to that and it contained so much information that was damning. You know, had that not been there, had she just thrown that into a river, would she have been caught?

You know, it came down to one single fingerprint being found in Carrie's Explorer. And that could have tied to her. But would that have been enough to convict her of her murder, especially without a body? But I think having all the information on that phone was what really solidified it and made the case against her that much stronger. And the picture that was found on that, the card inside that tablet. But again, that's keeping electronics. And we're not trying to tell people how to get away with murder, but she obviously was somewhat intelligent to pull all of this stuff off,

but at the same time, probably thought she was much more intelligent than what she really was, not understanding law enforcement's capability to get to some of this stuff that she probably thought she had covered up. And it's a good thing when criminals make mistakes so that they can get caught. No, absolutely. But that's it for our episode on the murder of Carrie Farver, Liz Gawleyer. If you love the show, but haven't done so yet, take a minute, go out, give us a five-star rating. You can leave a review as well. Also, keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the podcast really helps us out. If you want to find us on social media, we're on X with the handle at Criminology Pod.

You can also find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash criminology podcast. And you can join our Facebook discussion group, criminology podcast, discussion in fans. So that's it for another episode of criminology. But Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then for Mike.

And Morph. We'll talk to you next week. Take care, everyone. Can't you heard you loud and clear. with their new ultra-moister collection, powered by batana oil and Jamaican black caster oil. This new lineup collection is clinically proven to deliver non-stop moisture for up to five days.

Five whole days. The shampoo gently cleanses without stripping, and olivin and stylers keep curls soft, defined, and nourished long after wash day. Plus, it's free of sulfates, paraben, silicones, and mineral oils. If your curls have been craving real moisture, this is it. So if your hair's curls have been thirsty,

go ahead and try the new Cantu Ultramal for moisture collection. Your curls will thank you. Available now at Walmart.