Criminology - Christy Crystal Creek

Episode Date: May 30, 2021

Christy Crystal Creek was the name given to an unidentified female murder victim found near the town of Bonner in Missoula County, Missouri in 1985. She was named after the road near where she was found. Investigators had very little to work with in trying to identify her and went down a lot of avenues that turned out to be incorrect. A number of varying models and composites hindered the identification efforts. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the case of Christy Crystal Creek. It took investigators 36 years, and the help of advancements in DNA, to make the announcement that Christy Crystal Creek was actually Janet Lee Lucas. All efforts then switched to trying to identify Janet's murderer. Police had no idea why Janet was in Montana or even how she got there. But, one name kept popping up in the investigation, suspected serial killer Wayne Nance. You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology An Emash Digital production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Everyone and welcome to episode 161 of the Criminology Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And I'm Mike Morford. Mr. Mike Morford, what's going on with you, brother? Not a whole lot dealing with some stuff outside of the podcast world this week, but that comes with the territory and I'm dealing with it and trying to do some work in the meantime. How about you?

Well, exactly the same. it turns out that when you and I started talking about it, we're dealing with the exact same thing. So not that we, it's something that we really want to share, but we kind of bonded over that. And it's something that we're dealing with. We'll get through.

But you know, you have these things pop up in life, man, especially as you age. It's natural. You have things that are going to crop up that didn't crop up when you were 20 years old, right? I remember being 20 years old.

years old thinking what do I need to worry about this for what do I need to worry about that for because I'm in my prime man I am ready to go and you hit 50 and things start catching up with you yeah I'm in the same boat it's funny because we were just talking in the last episode that you had your 25th anniversary I have or 20 what you had your 25th I had my 25th coming up and that puts into perspective that we're not spring chickens but it does But we're getting through it. We're powering through. It definitely does when you think, okay, I've been married half my life.

I've been married almost half my life. It's, yeah, it's interesting when you think about things like that. We only have one Patreon shout out this week, Morf. That's Rhonda Norris. So we appreciate that support from Rhonda. You know, I'll make the plea out to everyone. You know, if you love the show, think about helping us out on Patreon. It goes a long way. Yeah, with our Patreon program, you'll get early ad-free episodes and any

kind of bonus content that we put out. So that's what you would get with that program. We appreciate anyone that does support the show. And if you'd like to sign up, you can go to patreon.com slash criminology. We appreciate it. All right, buddy, it's time to jump into this episode. And the case that we're talking about is out of Montana, Christy Crystal Creek. was the name given to an unidentified female murder victim found near the town of Bonner in Missoula County, Montana in 1985. She was named after the road near where she was found. On September 9th of that year, a bear hunter was tracking his wounded target when he found the unmistakable remains of a dead woman scattered over a hill in a wooded area near Crystal Creek. Creek, the hunter headed back to town and summoned police.

He then brought them to the woman's remains and they began to survey the area. The woman's body was badly decomposed and mostly skeletonized. Investigators along with medical examiners would eventually narrow down her time of death to sometime between 1983 and 1985. Okay. That's a pretty wide range. You know, a lot of times more if we're talking about days. This is sometime during a two-year stretch.

Yeah, I think the police know right away they've probably got an uphill battle. Well, it can't make it easy, right? To not be able to narrow it down any more than that. It was estimated that she was between 18 and 35 years, old. Christy was between 4 foot 10 and 5 foot 2 inches tall and weighed about 100 pounds. 2 32 caliber bullets were found in the back of her skull. She had been shot twice in the back of the head at close range. And what sounds like an execution style shooting, you know, oftentimes when we're talking about

a couple of shots to the back of the head from close range. You think of an execution. Forensics determined that the bullets could have been fired from a wide range of gun makes. At least six, Cessca, Walther, Lama, Star, Savage, or Astra. And I have to be honest with you, man, some of these are gun manufacturers or makes or models that I'm not familiar with it all. Obviously, I'm familiar with Walther.

I think a lot of people think of Walther as the James Bond gun, right? He used a Walther PPPK or PPCS in a lot of the movies. So that gun has kind of become iconic and synonymous with James Bond. They also make a lot of other guns as well. but and then the other one that I'm familiar with is Savage. I know they make a number of rifles, but the rest of those are gun brands that I've never heard of. Yeah, there's no Smith & Wesson or Colt or some of the more familiar ones that we've

heard about so many times. Is it safe to say that these are guns that aren't as widely found as some of the more familiar name brands that we were used to? Yeah, I think that's safe to say it could be that. some of these were, you know, brands that were around, obviously maybe back in the 80s or before, and have disappeared or have been, you know, bought up by other gun manufacturers. That happens as well. And it could be that I've just never heard of them. There was no clothing found at the scene where the remains were found or any real evidence that pointed to a killer.

The team of investigators and medical examiners had very little to work with, but they developed some ideas based on the few clues they did find. They felt that Christy was a smoker and most likely right-handed based on the staining pattern on her teeth. She had light brown hair that was thin and wavy and probably perm. Christy had a lot of dental work, and she appeared to be of Asian descent. She had very prominent cheekbones, and some of her dental work used a typically Asian style, the screwing a post into the teeth. She had many fillings.

Almost every single tooth of hers had some sort of work done, and multiple root canals. Despite this extensive list of dental work, police couldn't find any reports of missing women in the area whose dental work matched Christie's. That led investigators to lean even more heavily into her being of Asian ancestry and possibly having had the dental work done abroad.

For years, this was really all investigators had to go on. and all the information anyone could find about her. Forensic anthropologist and even forensic odontologist tried to identify Christy Crystal Creek through her dental records. And countless hours were dedicated solely through pouring through these databases, but they still came up empty. So to me more, if this is interesting, and it's something I think that you and I have talked about

in at least one or two other episodes, you know, finding a Jane Doe, a John Doe, and really analyzing their dental work and coming to the conclusion that it was most likely done outside of the U.S. To me, that's fascinating, right? Because you can look at how dental work is typically done here in the States compared to how it's done in other countries or other regions of the world and try to make a determination of the country. of where this person came from, especially this kind of screwing a post into the tooth being more of an Asian style than other parts of the world. Now, this is still not a lot to go on, right?

If we look at everything that we've talked about right now, we've got a fairly long period that her death could have occurred. That doesn't help. They can't really narrow down the exact gun make to one. That doesn't help. The evidence doesn't scream, okay, this is going to be an easy one to solve, I guess is what comes to my mind. And we have to remember, too, back during this time period,

they didn't have the luxury of any kind of database or computer system when they looked at these different dental records, they had to look at them on paper and compare them to any other missing persons that they were perhaps looking at and do a one-to-one comparison rather than just have a computer generator list of possible matches. Yeah, and I know I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't know how they solved hardly any of these cases with the amount of manual labor that had to go into,

doing what today would be what, a click of a button, a few mouse clicks and database pops out, you know, a whole bunch of records. And there's just a lot of work back then. A reconstruction of Christy's face was made out of clay and released to the public to try to get help from them in identifying her. It was mostly featureless. a smooth, tan face with dark, empty, or sullen eyes. Her hair was short, ear length, and looked reddish-brown, but most of the photos released were in black and white. She was listed as white or biracial and not always specified as possibly Asian.

So I think when you look at this reconstruction and the pictures that went out of it, it's probably not too hard to figure out that it wasn't really all that helpful. And unfortunately, the reconstruction was too broad as far as the possibility of what Christy looked like. And it didn't lead at all to her being identified. Although the first reconstruction led nowhere, investigators were not done. A second reconstruction was made also out of clay. but this one was intended to be more accurate and more helpful in identifying Christy.

This model seemed distinctively more Asian looking. And it was noted that it looked Asian, but specifically Japanese. And then that fact was added to her information. So rather than it saying possibly Asian, And Christy began to be listed as possibly Japanese. The reconstruction had very prominent cheekbones and defined eyebrow ridges, a long slender nose, and large dark eyes. Her hair was black and long with short bangs.

The expression on the model's face was less hollow, but it still looked more like a caricature and less like an actual forensic reconstruction to many people. And I've seen a couple of shows where the people that do this kind of work will sit down in front of the camera and walk through how they do this process. They'll connect these little dots to the skull and number sections and then they'll add little pieces of clay. And it's a long process that comes together.

And I always wondered how often does that resemble the real person. but it's quite a process to go to try and make these reconstructions. Yeah, and I think it cuts both ways, right? I've seen some that, you know, once the person was actually identified, the model looked nothing like them. And you can make the same kind of thing for composite sketches and drawings. And then I've seen many that, you know, at the end of the day, once this, once a person was identified, it's eerie.

how close the artist was able to get to what this person actually looked like. In 2004, 43-year-old Sidney Bacon decided to use Christie's case as a study for her master's thesis in forensic anthropology. She was studying at the University of Montana, and the case was close to home. Sidney studied Christie's remains closely. She confirmed that Christy Crystal Creek was between 4'10 and 5 foot 2 inches tall and weighed about 100 pounds. She also confirmed that her hair was short and wavy and also was treated with a perm. Due to the width of Christy's pelvis, Sydney also thought that Christy may have given birth at least once in her lifetime. These clues helped paint a more descriptive picture of Christy, but still didn't lead to her being identified.

For some reason, Christy Crystal Creek was not added to Namis, the National Missing and Unidentified Person System until around 2012. well. This was 20 years after she was found. And here again, I think this is an additional hurdle that may have prevented her identity from being found for a much longer time than was necessary. This brings to light the issue that even when a database exists, it may not be properly utilized. And I think this is true for all databases, whether it's the combined DNA index system, CODIS, or sexual assault kits, fingerprint sets, DNA samples, dough information. I mean, I think you can make that statement for all of that. Even if Christie had been entered into Namus or some other database, there's no guarantee that they would have found a match. These databases rely on humans taking the time to enter the

information and it's up to those humans to make sure the information is accurate, which is an entirely different problem cropping up in dough cases quite often, especially in older cases where the time was not taken in every instance to follow a predetermined set of guidelines. This is where a company like Parabon Nanolabs can come in quite handy. We've talked in many episodes about their work. they're able to produce what they call a paraben snapshot through DNA phenotyping that we've talked about a number of times. Now usually we're talking about these snapshots depicting the face of an unidentified killer. But this same technique can also be used to help identify deceased Jane and John Doe's.

While these snapshot images may not be spot on, in many cases they are remarkably similar. to the face that they ultimately match up to and can help authorities rule out portions of the population who could not possibly match the snapshot. If this was able to be done for all unidentified dose, we may be able to paint more accurate pictures of their race, skin tone, eye color, in facial shape using their DNA,

rather than relying on information solely from dental, work, you know, kind of to make up these clay models. Eventually, the DNA sample was obtained from Christy Crystal Creek, and research through genetic genealogy was able to be started. In early 2021, the Missoula County Cold Case Unit used funding from the Montana Department of Justice's Sexual Assault Kid Initiative to work with Othram Labs. A DNA phenotyping snapshot was not created, but in February 2021, a forensic sketch of Christy Crystal Creek by famed forensic artist Lois Gibson was released to the public. The new sketch seemed promising. It looked like a real person compared to the previous attempts made to represent Christy's face. And Gibson holds the Guinness World Record for the world's most successful forensic artist.

To date, Lois Gibson has sketched over 751 pieces that have helped investigators close cases. Instead of a closed-mouth blank expression in the new sketch, Christy was smiling and had very prominent but straight teeth. Her hair was ear-length and brown. She had dark eyes and tan skin. In this sketch, she looked like she could even be a black woman with light skin, or an Asian woman with tan skin, or possibly even a white woman with tan skin.

The sketch, which was much more humanizing, gave investigators an online sluice more hope, but was still quite ambiguous. In many of the groups dedicated to identifying unidentified doze, opinions on the new sketch were mixed. Many people felt that the sketch makes Christy Crystal Creek appear to be black, possibly biracial, and not white or Asian at all.

The release of the new sketch saw many speculating online about Christy being a military child. Others believe she could have been of indigenous descent from Canada or Native American from the United States. In short, Christy could have been anyone. So this sketch that was done by Lois Gibson, it seems like just another tool that they're trying to use to identify Christy at this point.

And she's well-recognized. Her credentials are good for creating sketches. But at the end of the day, it still comes down to her interpretation and her expression of what Christy would look like. And I think, as I mentioned, there's some online dispute as to whether that sketch helps or hurts because some people felt that the sketch represents someone that might be black. Others felt that they might be biracial. Some felt that they might be Native American.

So it's really all over the place. And you have to wonder at the end of the day, did this help or hurt the investigation? Yeah. I mean, I back you up on her credentials. I think they're pretty well known. But I do think the fact that so now we have a lot of conflicting information out, does that hurt? Seems like it would.

Now, to me, what's interesting is the speculation about Christy being a military child. You know, that's something that I know quite a bit about. My stepmom was born into an airfield. Forst family. They traveled everywhere. They were in the Middle East. They spent time in Hawaii. So, you know, what do you make of that and how does it play into who could this person possibly be? But I think you summed it up, morph in saying that, you know, Christy could have been just about anyone.

I mean, you know, based on the information we have, it's not really narrowing it down all that much, especially if you have conflicting information about ethnicity and things like that. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency. We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020. Blood and water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

At Giant Eagle, you may have spotted The Stacker. With uncanny MyPerks ability, she stacks up the perks to choose either dollars off or up to 20% off her entire grocery bill. The Stacker, stacking up huge savings with My Perks. Find your MyPerksality and transform your shopping into free gas and groceries. Full details at Giant Eagle.com. slash my perks. Perks cannot be earned or redeemed on select items. Restrictions apply. In May 2021, the Missoula County Sheriff's Office revealed that Christy Crystal Creek, as she had been known for 36 years, had been identified with the help of Othram Labs.

Christy's real name was Janet Lee Lucas. She had been 23 years old. The last time she had been seen alive, Janet Lucas was from the Spokane, Washington area, and was last seen in Sandpoint, Idaho in the summer of 1983. Now, at this point, it's still unknown how Janet got to Montana or even why she was there. This case is very reminiscent of the case of Jock Doe, now known as James P. Freund, found with the Jane Doe in South Carolina in 1976. We covered that case on episode 145 of criminology for 45 years.

He and his companion were unidentified, known as the Sumter County Does. Jock Doe, as he was known then, was presumed to be foreign to the United States due to the dental work that he likely received in Germany during military service. Jacques was even thought to be a mishearing or a misspelling of the French name Jacques, further adding to the strength of theories that he was formed. Due to his teeth having atypical work for the region where he was found and was later known to be from, the theories in that case ranged from he and Jane Doe being a European or Canadian immigrant couple to being massad agents or Cold War spies. But they were found just a few states over

from where James was born in Pennsylvania. I think this shows you that when you go down these rabbit holes of trying to figure out based on dental work where someone was from or where they had the dental work performed that, you can go down the wrong direction. And that seems to have happened in this particular case. Yeah, it does.

And, you know, one of the things that I think about is, okay, what if you're on vacation? You're on vacation somewhere abroad. Let's say you're in China. Let's say you're in Japan. And you have to have some emergency dental work done. If you end up being a Jane Doe, a John Doe, is that going to play a factor? You know, the dental work being performed in another country, is that going to start investigators down the path that you're most likely not from the United States? When it turns out, in fact, you are, you were just on vacation.

For 36 years, the only goal for police investigating her murder had been to identify the woman known as Christy Crystal Creek, now armed with her real name, Janet Lee Lucas. the focus had to switch to figuring out what happened to her. Police needed to learn more about her background. Janet Lee Lucas was born in October 1960. She grew up in both California and Washington State. Janet was one of eight children. At the time she went missing, she had a five-year-old son. This corroborated the work done by Sidney Bacon,

that her finding of the bone she was analyzing, were that of a mother. According to the Missoula County Sheriff's office, Janet's son had spent much of his adult life trying to find his mom, and sadly, he apparently presumed she had abandoned him. Friends and family remember Janet's warm and irresistible smile and her loving and compassionate personality. She's been missed as a mother, a daughter, sister, aunt, friend, and cousin, and were she alive today, she'd be the grandmother to four grandchildren. Detective Captain Conway of the Missoula County Sheriff's Office confirmed that his office

spoke with Janet's friends and family, and all agreed she was last seen in the summer of 1983 in Sandpoint, Idaho. So more if we often talk about John Does, Jane Doe's, and the search for two things, right? Their real identity. And then what happened to them and who was the perpetrator, you know, sometimes I think we forget that there are people out there searching for these individuals for many years. And I think in the case of Janet Lee Lucas, it is extremely sad that at the time she vanished, she had a five-year-old son, and this guy spent his entire adult life, not only searching for his mother, but I think ultimately coming to the conclusion that she just left him. She abandoned him. And that's not a good feeling. That can't be something.

that's easy to live with. Now, obviously, we know she didn't. And he would, too, once it was found that her remains were found in Montana. But the time up until that point where her identity was known, I can't imagine how tough of a period that was for him. Yeah, I think people back in that era that were looking for loved ones didn't have the luxury of what we have today with cell phone records and computerized credit card statements to sort of track movements. They were basically working by if they knew an area should have been in, they could maybe go to the area or talk to police in that area. But there wasn't as much of a footprint to try and follow like there is today. So I think that would be challenging for anyone looking for

loved ones back then. Oh, no doubt. I mean, you know, you think about things today. And if you've got an iPhone with you or any type of smartphone or just about everything, pinpoints where you are at all times, it seems like, even your car. So I think much harder to just disappear today. Now, one thing that I think is important is it did take a long time to ID, Janet, in part because of some of the things we talked about, right? Some of the recreations and representations of her. they just weren't accurate.

Janet was white, not Asian. Christy Crystal Creek is not the first unidentified person. To have completely misleading information released about them, Princess Blue found in 1990 was listed and described as Hispanic. Until 2006, when DNA analysis was performed, and then she was relisted as white with recent African, Ancestry. Princess Blue was eventually identified as Julie Davis. And seeing photos of Julie, it's easy to see how this information could have led her family to overlook Princess Blue

in any search results, leaving her unidentified. Authority showed her reconstruction sketch to many people in the same graduating class at a high school due to a class ring she was wearing. but no one recognized her. Now, if you think about it, if she had not been incorrectly depicted a certain way, due to inaccurate forensic or anthropological analysis, someone would have remembered her face. Manchester John Doe found in 2013 was long listed as Caucasian or Hispanic, but actually had mostly African American ancestry. He is still unidentified.

and his case is currently under research by the DNA Doe Project. So, you know, while the work to try and show the public what these Jane and John Does may have looked like is extremely honorable. It's far from perfect. Janet's story is one that's too familiar in some of the cases we cover. A woman, a daughter, sister, mother, friend trusted someone they shouldn't have. And please feel that Janet was likely picked up. killed while she was hitchhiking. For that period of time, hitching was very common. Many people hitchhiking the 60s through the 80s, just like many people still take the bus and walk home daily. These were the

days before Uber and Lyft, and if you couldn't walk or didn't want to walk, you would take a chance on thumbing it. In most cases, the person picking up was a nice person trying to help. But as we know, there are always the people like Ed Kemper, Ted Bundy, willing to offer a ride as well. Of course, With technology, as we mentioned, we now have the Ubers and the lifts, and we also have cell phones, so traveling now isn't as risky. Just as travel has changed for the better with the times, so have crime-fighting tools, including DNA tools. First, there was only Parabon nanolabs, and we saw a few solves or identifications and progress in a few cases. Then DNA Doe Project was founded, and unidentified DOES began to be identified

at a much more rapid pace. Now, with the technology of Othram Labs, incorporated, added to the arsenal crime-fighting tools available, it seems like every other day there's a killer being identified or a cold case cracked, or a Jane or John Doe being identified. It's amazing to see all these cases being solved in the news, and for so many loved ones to be getting answers. Othrom Labs is a private laboratory solely for forensic DNA sequencing.

Their scientists can often analyze trace amounts of DNA, or samples that are contaminated or have been degraded over time. The lab was founded in 2018, and they've definitely played a part in many of these crimes we see being solved. While Janet has been identified, her killer has not. Although one suspect is at the top of investigators list, Wayne Nathan Nance was a suspected serial killer in the Missoula, Montana area, Nance has been referred to by the media since his death as the Missoula Moller. Nance was born in 1955 and served in the United States Navy from 74 to 77.

Although police are confident that Nance was a dangerous killer, responsible for many brutal murders, he was never charged or convicted for any of them. Wayne Nance met his end on September 3rd, 1986. when he tried to murder a couple named Doug and Chris Wells. Wayne and Doug were acquainted and had worked together a bit, so it didn't seem unusual when Wayne Nance showed up at the Wells home. But that all changed when he suddenly attacked the couple,

though Doug had been stabbed in the chest, hit in the head with the flashlight, and tied up in the basement and left for debt. He somehow managed to escape and load a rifle that was in the basement and lure Nance down from the second story where he was assaulting Chris. Doug shot Nance once and they struggled. There are multiple versions of what happened next. One is that Doug shot Nance in the head.

And the other and probably the more likely scenario is that Nance accidentally shot himself in the head with his own 22 caliber revolver as part of an intense struggle. as Doug hit him repeatedly in the head with the butt of his rifle. And apparently he had to wield this rifle like a baseball bat because he had only loaded one shot into it. At the same time, Chris Wells, who had managed to free herself, kicked and punched Nance. Apparently at some point in the struggle, the room's only light source, a lamp was knocked over,

and the bulb shattered, which left the three fighting in. in the dark as a final shot rang out striking Nance. It was not immediately fatal. He went into convulsions. Doug and Chris Wells were able to call 911. While Doug and Chris made full recoveries, Nance was pronounced dead at St. Patrick's Hospital Emergency Room on September 4th

from the gunshot wound to the head. And this is a pretty big case, one that I have not actually covered more. if you and I haven't covered it, I haven't covered it on any of my other podcasts, the Missoula Mahler, Nance is a fairly big case. What I find extremely interesting is that in these cases where you have a suspected serial killer,

and I'm using that word because I think you have to, he wasn't proven guilty, but police have a lot of evidence, right, linking him. to certain things. But he dies before he's caught, before he can, you know, face a trial with the jury of his peers. I feel like there's a lot of unknown in, in those types of cases because,

okay, he doesn't get to sit down with investigators. They don't get to grill him and try to extract all this information from him and there's no trial. So you don't have that record of what they uncovered and what is alleged or put forth as facts in the case. Yeah. And you might be able to say that in this case, presuming he was guilty, that he got justice at the hands of his intended victims. In my eyes, they're heroes for standing up to him, fighting him off as a team. And it's, It sounded like it was really a knockdown, drag-out fight for their lives. And, you know, I think they're heroes for doing that.

And you have to wonder, could he have killed them and then went on to kill more people? What would have happened next? Who would have been his next victims? I don't think there's any doubt. And if you're talking about a serial killer, we've said it time and time again, right? I think it's pretty well known. They don't normally stop on their own. They are getting something out of what they're doing that is so powerful.

It's almost like a drug and they need more and more of it. I'm sure it happens, but I have to think it's very rare that a serial killer just all of a sudden says, you know what? I'm done. I've had enough. I'm not going to do this anymore. And,

you know, more if I do think of these types of stories where someone, who is encounters one of these serial killers and is an intended target becomes, you know, a potential victim for the serial killer

is able to thwart them, is able to fight them off. Whatever you want to call it, adrenaline, the will to live, whatever it is, they're able to defeat the evil person.

Those always give me chills. Because, They could have easily gone the other way and probably did in a bunch of different cases before. But this couple, they did what they had to do to survive. Following the attack on the Wells, police investigated Wayne Nance and found evidence linking him to multiple murders. Up until he died, Nance had never been on police radar. When Doug and Chris Wells were able to give their account to authorities, they noted similarities to previous crimes. Wayne Nance is also suspected of killing Mike and Teresa Shook in 1985 in a home invasion similar to that of what happened to Doug and Chris Wells.

Items missing from the Shook home were later found in Nancy's home, including a photo of Nancy's father George, receiving one of the items as a Christmas gift. The attack on Chris and Doug Wells probably would have played out exactly like the murders of Mike and Teresa Shook, had they not fought back so ferociously and actually killed Nance before he could kill them. Wayne Nance is one of only a handful of known suspected serial killers who were killed by their victims. Other victims thought to have been killed by Wayne Nance were unidentified for quite some time after they were found, and also were given descriptive and unique nicknames, rather than the normal Jane Doe moniker. Betty Beavertail, found in 1979, was later identified in 1985 as 15-year-old Devonan Nelson. Debbie Deer Creek, found in 1984, was identified as 16-year-old Marcella Sherry Bachman in 2006.

Nancy's thought to have picked up lone women hitchhiking and out-of-the-way areas, and he would later kill them to dispose of their bodies in shallow graves or in areas that weren't easily found. Debbie Deere Creek or Marcy Bachman was shot in the head just like Janet Lucas, and her hair was later found in Wayne Nance's home. When she went missing, many believed that Marcy Bachman could have been a victim of the Green River Killer, now known to be Gary Ridgeway. She disappeared from the area in which Ridgeway liked to abduct his victims and also dumped their bodies.

She was actually identified by researchers at the University of North Texas while they were looking into the Green River Killer case. Betty Beavertail or Devana Nelson was stabbed to death, but authorities still believed that Wayne Nance was responsible for her murder. murder. Marcy, Devana, and Janet were all killed in Missoula, while Wayne Nance worked as a bouncer at a bar called Cabin in East Missoula, Missouri. Nance's earliest suspected murder took place in 1974 when Donna Pounds was found shot to death in her basement. Nance, who was just at the time 18 years old, was a friend of Donna's children, who were older teenagers as well. Nance has been linked to the murder of Donna Pounds through evidence found at the scene, eyewitness accounts, and evidence found in his home as well. So again, Morph, he was never convicted, right? He died before he

went to trial. But, you know, you go through some of these cases and you find out that, yeah, they had quite a bit of evidence against him regarding some of the murders that they believe he committed. Yeah. And that's just the one. that they've publicly tied to him, there may be a lot of other victims as well that they just haven't linked to him. I'm certain of that. As we mentioned, it's not confirmed whether Janet Lucas was truly a victim of Wayne Nance or not, although police think it's likely. Five-year-old Soben McGuinness was killed in 1974 and found very close to the area where Christy Crystal Creek and Debbie Deere Creek were found. For years, Nance was a possible suspect in the murder of

McGinnis. But in 2020, it was revealed that Richard William Davis, another possible serial killer, was responsible. Missoula County Sheriff's Office, Detective Marta Timmons, described that area that Janet and Marcy were found as one of Wayne Nance's favorite spots to bring people, often sitting in an old abandoned car parked out in the woods. We should point out, too, that Janet Lee Lucas is no relation to yet another serial killer, Henry Lee Lucas. He's responsible with the murder of 23-year-old Deborah Jackson in 1979. She was known as orange socks for almost 40 years until the DNA Doe Project was able to use genetic genealogy to track down her living sister.

Lucas's name comes up a lot in our episodes because he's inserted himself into so many cases. But in this case, there's no relation. Yeah, and I think to say, you know, inserted himself in a lot of cases is pretty much an understatement more. I mean, I think I've talked about it before. anybody who has researched Lucas or, you know, watched documentaries on him, this guy was fascinating. He was so happy to say that he had killed hundreds and hundreds of women.

I think it's safe to say that had Missoula authorities reached out to Lucas, he probably would have copped to this one as well. I have no doubt of it. For a strawberry milkshake, Henry Lee Lucas, would take responsibility for any unsolved murder in the United States, whether it was possible he was in that state at the time or not. And the sad part is, it seemed like a lot of investigators didn't care if he was there or not. They were happy to solve their cases. In 2019, the DNA Doe project founded just two years earlier in 2017, was able to help identify 10 people. people. And as of May

2021, have identified already seven people this year. They're on pace to outdo themselves this year easily. For listeners out there who are interested, you can go to DNA solves.com to learn more about

helping to solve cold cases involving unidentified persons. DNA Solves is an Othrum Labs project. Now, Wayne Nance can not be definitively linked to the murder of Janet Lucas. It's really only the circumstances surrounding her death that have led investigators to believe he was responsible. Police are still trying to fill in blanks and connect dots. So if you

know anything about how Janet Lucas got to Montana or why she was there, or perhaps you have information that Nance or someone else was involved in her death, you're encouraged to call the Missoula County Sheriff's Department at 406, 258, 4810, or email report a crime at Missoula County.us. So morph as we wrap up this episode, obviously we talked about a number of people in it. I think when you talk about Janet Lucas specifically, there's so much mystery surrounding her. We don't know why she was in Missoula.

We don't even know why she was in the state of Montana. We don't know how she got there. It's suspected most likely hitchhiking was involved. But to think that you have this, and I have to call him suspected, serial killer, Wayne Nance running around, specifically in Missoula, murdering women. It's kind of hard not to think. that he most likely was responsible for the death of Janet Lucas as well. He obviously was a very bad guy.

I don't think there's any doubt about that, even though, you know, he never actually went to trial. He was never convicted. I think police have enough evidence on this guy to say that, you know, he was a monster. He was a killer of women. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if police can connect him to any other crime. or any more evidence comes to light. And it seems likely like he's the best suspect in Janet's case. One thing that jumps out to me is just the journey to identify Janet.

And that road was a long one filled with some perhaps missteps of putting out clay models that didn't necessarily represent her. The sketch that was put out sort of caused a little confusion. And so while police and these people that were helping to try and identify her did their best, it somehow set the case back a little bit possibly. But it's glad to see that DNA, sort of the ultimate tool that really gets a lot of answers. Yeah, I mean, you know, you and I have talked about this DNA stuff for a while now. I continue to be amazed at what is being developed.

and how these developments are being used to solve cases, whether it's identifying missing persons, it's finding killers, all of it is kind of mystifying to me that, you know, you can go 30, 40, 50, 60 years back in time and solve some of these cases. I think it's amazing.

Thanks goes out to Sunny Landon for writing and research. assistance in this episode. As always, if you love the show, take a minute. If you haven't done so, go out, give us a five-star rating. Keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the criminology podcast really goes a long way. If you want to find us on social media, we're on Twitter with the handle at Criminology Pod. You can also find us on Facebook by searching for Criminology Podcast or by joining our Facebook discussion group, which is Criminology Podcast Discussion and Fans. You know, one thing more of that, I forget, I forgot to mention up front is that, you know, this episode is coming out a week before CrimeCon. So, you know, Gibby and I will be there in Austin.

You're doing a virtual kind of podcast row podcast thing, which is really going to be cool. I'm interested to see how all of that works. I know that the tickets are basically sold out. for Austin. They may have some of the really high price tickets available, but they're kind of astronomical, to be honest with you. But the, the virtual thing is available. It's a great way to experience some of CrimeCon from your own home. And you're going to get to see and maybe, you know, interact with a lot of your favorite podcasters and, see some of your favorite TV personalities.

I don't know exactly how they're going to do it, but I know they have a big plan for the virtual part of CrimeCon. So I would encourage everybody to check it out. You know, not everyone can get off work to fly or buy the tickets to actually go to crime con every year. But I think the virtual thing is reasonably priced and, you know, it's on the way.

weekend. So you know, you want to sit around your house and kind of interact with some of your favorite true crime personalities. Hey, this is the way to do it. Yeah. If you're able to get out in person and attend crime con in person and meet Mike and give me in person along with all your other favorite podcasters, that's cool. But if you're in the position like many people where you're not able to go in person, you can still take part in it and talk to a lot of your your favorite podcasters and true crime personalities just virtually. And it's, it's pretty smooth. It works well.

So I'm looking forward to it. And hopefully some of our listeners will stop by and say hi. Yeah. And I don't know exactly how it's going to work, but I know Gibby and I will have a virtual presence too. So we're going to be there, but also somehow be able to interact virtually. I don't know. Because I've never done it, but they, um, they said it.

It's going to be pretty cool. It should be pretty fun. Yeah, it should be a lot of fun. I've also heard from a lot of people who are in a position to go, but they can't get tickets. You know, last year, because they didn't have it, all the people that had tickets, they had to roll those over. And then they probably had to reduce it a little bit because of COVID. So I think tickets were really hard to come by this year. Yeah, I'm putting it out there right now.

Next year, Crime Con is in Vegas. and I'm going to be there if I have to crawl there. And you will lose all your money. Hey, I'll have fun in the process and maybe I can gamble alongside some of our listeners. That would be fun. Oh, I think it would be a blast. So I think everybody should be looking forward to that one, saving up. I think Las Vegas is going to be the best one yet, I would say.

Yeah, I'm excited about it. So that's it more for our episode on Janet Lee Lucas, once known as Christian. Crystal Creek. But Morph, we'll be back with everyone next Saturday night with an all-new episode of criminology. So until then, for Mike. And Morph. We'll talk to you next week.

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