Criminology - Jonathan Crews

Episode Date: September 29, 2024

On February 2nd, 2014, Super Bowl Sunday, at 11:30 PM, 26-year-old Brenda Lazaro called 911 in Coppell, Texas, a suburb of Dallas. She told the 911 dispatcher that her boyfriend, Jonathan Crews, had shot himself. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the death of Jonathan Crews. Many believe that Brenda was slow to call 911 that night and that she may have fired the fatal shot herself. To many, the clues don't add up to a self-inflicted gunshot. You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology   An Emash Digital production

Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 327 of the Criminology podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Mr. Morford. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing good. Other than the fact I slept in a little bit today and you slept in last week's, I guess, were even. Yeah, I was actually really worried about you. I kept texting.

I kept calling. And normally I wouldn't be that worried, but I know you are kind of preparing or bracing for some bad weather. And I thought, well, maybe it came earlier than you thought. Now, it's the hurricane is scooting by us and it's going up, I think,

towards the pan handle. And, you know, it's frightening because this is hurricane season down here in Florida. And, you know, you say, well,

I hope it doesn't hit me. But then at the same time, you don't want to say, I hope it goes up. hit somebody else. So it's just one of the situations where I just hope everybody's safe and I'm, you know, hoping that it does minimal damage. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you've had, uh, experience with a number of them in the short time that you've been down there, but, uh, you know, they're so destructive. And so I echo those sentiments just hope that everyone is okay. Yeah,

definitely. Anyone out there listening if you're in that path, I hope it, uh, scoots around you and goes away. Just a reminder, we're about a year away from CrimeCon 2025, but it will be here sooner than you think. So make plans now to go. Yeah, CrimeCon 2025 is happening September 5th through the 7th at the Gaylord, Rockies Resort and Convention Center in Aurora, Colorado. It's the biggest true crime convention on the world, and it's one you don't want to miss. If you are going to go, use our promo code criminology when you check out at crimecon.com.

and that'll save you 10% on your standard badges. We hope to see you in Colorado. Now that we have all of that out of the way, let's jump right into this week's case on February 2nd, 2014, Super Bowl Sunday that year. At 11.30 p.m., 26-year-old Brenda Lazara called 911 in Coppell, Texas, a suburb of Dallas, according to dmagine.com, she was frantic, sobbing, almost unintelligible as she managed to say, oh my God. The dispatcher tried to figure out what was going on, but Brenda was too distraught to say much of anything. The dispatcher asked for a location, hoping to send someone who could respond to the scene and gather what was going on,

but Brenda could only say at the apartments. Brenda had already been on the phone with 911 for nearly half a minute, but no information had been relayed. No help was coming, and the dispatcher continued to try and make progress with Brenda saying, Ma'am, I need you to calm down. Which apartments are you in? Confused, Brenda gave the number of the unit, not the address or the name of the complex. 813, 813, she said in between sobs. She seemed to finally understand that the unit number wasn't enough information for the dispatcher. there could be many 813s in Coppell, Texas. Getting a little bit more specific,

she said that the apartment complex was near the intersection of Beltline Road and MacArthur Boulevard. And Morph, I want to take a minute to talk about 911 dispatchers. I think maybe we've touched on the subject before, but, you know, obviously I've never done the job. But I can tell it's not the easiest one out there. I mean, you're dealing with,

maybe not all the time, but a lot of the times you're dealing with life or death situations. And you're also dealing with people who are in the midst of some very frantic type of situation. And it's your job to stay calm, try to get the information you need so that you can get them help. And you're doing a good job. Could be the difference between life and death or something. something very serious happening. But as we know, people in these types of situations, you know, react differently. Everyone reacts a little differently.

Some people are relatively calm and composed. And some people can't even speak. And so, you know, it becomes a real challenge. Now, Brenda didn't know the actual address or name of the apartment complex. After a minute on the phone with 911, Brenda finally tried. to relay the crucial information. According to D Magazine, she said he's shooting himself on the heart. And just a quick note here for listeners, Brenda doesn't speak perfect English.

And if you think about it, during a high stress situation, it can be difficult to relay information even in the language you've spoken your whole life. So trying to give important details in a second language. language while panicking can obviously be tricky. She then yelled out he's dying right now. Still, the dispatcher couldn't make out what was happening telling Brenda, I need you to take a deep breath. Brenda repeated he's dying. He shoot himself. Now, the dispatcher understood the situation, but they still needed to figure out where Brenda was. So that help could be sent. The dispatcher told Brenda that if she could find a piece of mail in the unit, one of his bills or something, it would have the

address of the complex on it. But Brenda said she couldn't find any mail. Three minutes had passed and still no one knew where this emergency was happening. Brenda started yelling Jonathan's name, as if she was pleading with him to wake up to stay alive. The dispatcher tried to get more information, whether it was an accidental shooting, homicide, or a suicide attempt. At first, Brenda said, no when asked if Jonathan shot himself. But she quickly said, yeah, he did it on purpose. She was unable to tell the dispatcher where the wound was and said there's too much blood. Thinking on their feet, the dispatcher asked Brenda to go to another unit and ask a neighbor for

the address of the complex so that an ambulance could get to them. But according to ABC News, Brenda yelled, no, I don't want to leave him alone. So by this point, Brenda had been on the phone with the 911 dispatcher for over five minutes and still no one was on the way to help Jonathan. She was crying and hysterical saying, oh my God, I think he's dead. The dispatcher losing patience ordered Brenda to go to another unit saying, I need you to go now. Finally, Brenda did leave unit 813. It had been eight minutes since she dialed 911. But she finally knew the name of the apartment.

complex. She was calling from the River Chase apartments. While she was outside, the dispatcher instructed her not to go back inside the unit, but she did. She went into the bedroom to check on Jonathan, and she told the dispatcher he's dead. So we just talked about more if you know, how important it is for, you know, a 911 dispatcher to acquire the information they need. And it seems as though in this situation, that was a tough order. You know, Brenda didn't speak perfect English. She didn't know exactly where she was, but she also didn't follow some of the directions given by the 911 dispatcher. You know, she was told to leave. She didn't. Then she finally did. She was told not to go back into the apartment, but she did. Yeah, I think all of that adding up to

to extra minutes that they're on the phone together trying to get, trying to get EMTs out there is just that much more crucial because I think with a, especially with a gunshot, every minute counts. So spending all this extra time just trying to figure out where Jonathan is at, that's crucial time and it could make the difference between life and death. Yeah, absolutely. And I can only imagine how frustrated this 911 operator must have been. Now, obviously, they want to get help out right away. But when they're unable to do that, that's got to be very frustrated. Paramedics got to the apartment quickly.

It was 1140, just 10 minutes after Brenda had initially called, and only about two minutes after she finally told them where they needed to go. Inside the bedroom, Jonathan Cruz, Brenda's boyfriend, was dead. He was lying in his bed almost tucked in. The blanket was pulled up to his waist. A sig-sour 9-millimeter Jonathan's gun was next to him on the bed. A single bullet had entered the left side of his chest and went all the way through his body, exiting the right side of his back, hitting his heart, his lungs, and his liver on the way out.

The magazine of the gun was in the dresser drawer underneath over a dozen neatly rolled ties. According to the Facebook page, Jonathan Cruz's cold case, this made officers believe that since there was no magazine in the gun, he did not realize there was a cartridge in the chamber when he pulled the trigger. And I understand how authorities could, you know, think that I do believe that there are people who mistakenly think. You know, if there's no magazine in the gun, it's empty. And that definitely is not always the case. You know, once you rack that slide and you chamber around, you can eject the magazine.

But that round is still in there. and if you pull the trigger, it will fire. Now, not all guns, some guns, you have to have the magazine in. You know, all guns are made it a little differently, but you just can't assume anything with a firearm. And that especially, you can not assume that just because the magazine is not in the gun, the gun is empty. And I think that's why, you know, especially if there's children in the home, experts want you to have that gun locked up and away from. them just in case, but in this house, there was no kids, but still it just proves that it could still be dangerous. According to D Magazine, Brenda told the dispatcher that she and Jonathan were talking,

and he suddenly shot himself. Brenda said, he just said that he loves me and I didn't believe him. He said he was going to prove that he loves me. She also told the dispatcher that she didn't even know that Jonathan owned a gun. This seemed weird to some people, given how much of a lifelong gun enthusiast Jonathan had been. He shot competitively and owned several guns. The Sig Sauer was just the one he kept ready for emergencies. Jonathan's phone was found in between his mattress and box bring with the screen smash. Records from the medical examiner's office state that 27-year-old Jonathan had a history of depression, but that he was non-compliant in taking his prescribed antidepressant. None of this made sense to Jonathan's family or friends. It could be hard to accept

when a loved one takes her own life, but something seemed off immediately. Reports said he had a history with depression was news to them. His mother, with the help of private investigator Sheila Wasaki, was not able to find any prescription for an antidepressant in Jonathan's name, or any discussion of depression in any of his medical records. his friends were immediately suspicious of the circumstances too at 10.52 p.m. on February 2nd, less than an hour before Brenda called 911, Jonathan's friend Emily, received a text from him or at least from someone using his phone, which read, I want to die. Of course, this was alarming, but it also didn't sound like Jonathan. In her mind, if he had really wanted to send her a text about his

feelings. He would have said more. Emily told D Magazine, he'd send long messages or a bunch of messages one after the other, not just one short one. She texted him back, asking, hey, love, are you okay? What's going on? But there was no reply. She and her boyfriend Jacob texted and called him, but he didn't answer or pick up. The next day, Jonathan's brother, Christian, called Jacob to tell him the news. Jonathan had passed away. Immediately, Emily thought about that text. She just knew that it had been Brenda, not Jonathan who had sent it. She informed both Pam Cruz, Jonathan's mother, as well as the investigators on the case. As soon as Emily told Pam her suspicion, Pam knew it too. She told ABC News, I knew right then that she had done it. And let's talk just for a minute about

texting. We all do it. I mean, who in this 2024 world doesn't text, except for my father-in-law who still has a flip phone. But other than that, and even then, I think he still could text, but doesn't know how. But when it comes to texting, especially when you're texting with people, you know very well, very good friends, your family, you get a sense of how. You get a sense of how, how people text. You know what I'm saying?

More if it's like, you know what type of language they use, how short they are or how verbose they are with their texts. And I think, you know, that's what Emily noticed. You know, this very short text, apparently from Jonathan,

which read, I want to die. That wasn't like him. He normally texted a lot more, not just one little short sentence. And I always talk about how texting, you know, I tell my kids how cold it is and it's not the same as talking to someone.

And the other day I actually saw my daughter texting a friend of hers, despite them being in the same room, which I thought was kind of weird. But it really does give you a sense when you're communicating with somebody by text. You know, you do get to know how long it takes them to respond. some of the things they write. So, you know, for this quick blurb of a attacks, that wasn't like Jonathan. I think his friends spotted it right away. Despite the suspicions of Brenda,

she actually stayed with the Cruz family for days after his death. She was heartbroken about his death, just like they were, or at least that's what it seemed. But despite her show of grief, Brenda didn't go to Jonathan's viewing, and she wasn't at his funeral either. Apparently, she was upset that the funeral was too much about Jonathan and his family. Jonathan's sister, Danny Cruz, told ABC, she kind of wanted the funeral to be about her and their love. Like she did with Jonathan, Brenda sent Danny a bunch of emotional text messages. One of them said, none of you thought for a second to acknowledge our love during this funeral. According to the Jonathan Cruz cold case page on Facebook, she was mad that they included his best friends, but not her, and that no one mentioned how

happy he was with her. She even asked Danny, why is it that your parents keep telling me they love me and understand what happened? But they kept me completely out of this. But Danny pointed out to her, there's a photo of the two of them when they went out together for her birthday. And, you know, more of this is jumping out to me as a big time red flag. If you were so in love, how do you not attend Jonathan's viewing or his funeral. And how do you get upset that the funeral was too much about Jonathan and not enough about you or the two of you and your love? I mean, that along with the strange text message and the thought that it was possibly

Brenda, I think at this point, you know, if you're a close friend, if your family, You've got to be very suspicious of her. Yeah, it does seem like she wants it to be about her. I mean, if it's your funeral, it seems like you would be the center of attention. And she seemed like she was mad that it was Jonathan and his family that were the center of attention, not her specifically. The way Danny texted back to Brenda, calmly and patiently with so much understanding, is very similar to the way Jonathan dealt with Brenda. Danny wrote, this is an incredibly selfish conversation. Brenda was offended that she was left out of everything and merely offered a seat with the family at his funeral. Like that would make it up to her.

Danny said there were people who were at the hospital when he was born who weren't even seated with the family. Brenda told Danny that she understood it would be hard for his family to lose him, but called Jonathan her reason of life. The intensity of their conversations and the severity of Brenda's emotions make it seem like they had been together for years, but they'd only been dating for three months. Danny was able to get Jonathan's Facebook password from Brenda after she hemmed and hauled and made Danny promise not to delete any pictures of her, change their relationship status, or read any of the messages she sent to him. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered.

I wonder what's emergency. We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, blood and water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcast. The official manner of death was listed as undetermined. If it had been absolutely clear that Jonathan had taken his own life, or that someone else had shot him that night, the determination would have been made.

Authorities couldn't be sure he did take his own life, but they also couldn't arrest anyone either. This is when the Cruz family hired the private investigator, Sheila Wysaki. There was work to be done. A case had to be billed against Jonathan's presumed murder. Sheila Wysaki investigated every facet of the case for months, and came to the conclusion that Jonathan didn't take his own life. Many listeners may know of Sheila's work.

She didn't set out to be a private investigator. She was happily raising her children when she happened to help solve a case that was personal to her. When she was in college, her roommate was murdered. The case went unsolved for two decades until Sheila stepped in. After this, she knew she could not stop helping others in their quest for justice. She came across Jonathan's case in 2015 and immediately noticed a few things that stood out to her. Investigators found gunshot residue on the top of Jonathan's right hand, but not on his palm or on his left hand. They also found gunshot residue on Brenda's hands.

Forensic pathologist Dr. Jonathan Arden told ABC that unfortunately gunshot residues are rarely definitive or decisive in terms of determining if a gunshot was self-reesome. inflicted or not, or even for that matter, who held or shot the gun. The bullet that went through Jonathan's body was found wedged in the mattress, where it had stopped. This shows that he would have been actually lying down when he was shot for a bullet to have gone in through his chest out his back and into the mattress. The gun had to be pointed down. Jonathan's wound was going from left to right. But as I just mentioned, he was right-handed. None of it adds up for Sheila Wysaki. She told ABC, if you're going to kill yourself generally, you shoot upward.

You don't lay down getting ready for bed and shoot yourself. And I do think that, you know, Sheila is and has made some good points here. You can talk about how someone would most like that. do it, but it doesn't mean that it couldn't happen a different way. To me, though, it is very strange, that if someone were going to shoot themselves to try to end their life, that they would do it through like the side of their chest. I just don't know how often you see that. It seems like it's definitely not common. I do remember some different cases where it has happened, but it's not the norm.

I think most people, if they are going to end their life with a gun, they're aiming at their head. Sheila looked through Jonathan's communications with Brenda, which were only looked through because she and the Cruz family requested his phone and computer back from the police department. Reading their conversations, it was clear that they were not in a happy relationship. Brenda and Jonathan had been dating since November 2013.

The two met at a martial art center in Coppell called Wu Yi shall in. It's near the River Chase apartments where Jonathan lived. Brenda taught at the center, and Jonathan, his little sister, Danny, and his mom, Pam, all took classes. Brenda and Danny were friends. Danny considered Brenda her best friend at the time, so Jonathan was sure to ask if it was okay with his sister before he asked her out on a date. Shortly after they started dating, Jonathan and Brenda went on a double date to a Chinese restaurant with Jonathan's friends, Jacob and Emily, who both hugged him when they greeted him, Brenda didn't say much during the

dinner, seemingly a shy and introverted person. Jacob would tell D Magazine that later on, he realized that she had been giving everyone the silent treatment because she didn't like the fact that Emily hugged Jonathan. Brenda brought up the hug from Emily multiple times in the weeks after it happened, Jonathan confided in his mother about Brenda's jealousy and she advised him to be patient, saying eventually she'll see what a good guy you are and she'll see she can trust you. So this jealousy angle on the part of Brenda, it's cropped up a couple times already. In the story, you know, some people are extremely jealous. Some people aren't jealous at all.

It kind of runs the gamut when you're, you're talking about how people react, but this seems like a very innocent situation. You have some friends. It's a couple. They're married. And the wife gives you a hug. It doesn't really seem to be a situation over which to get jealous. But, you know, some people can't control that emotion very well.

It would be one thing if this was his. his ex-girlfriend and she felt threatened by her for some reason, but this is clearly, you know, a set of friends that he's close with, you know, so for her to feel jealous seems kind of foolish. Over Christmas, Jonathan went to Germany with his family for vacation. Brenda questioned him about the girls that would like his post on Facebook and even brought up Emily again. She was also upset that only his close friends could see pictures of the two of them on his Facebook page, like he was hiding her from the people he loved.

According to the Jonathan Cruz cold case Facebook page, she wrote, I believe you're embarrassed of me, and that's why you didn't want to let others know about us. But Jonathan replied, why would I be embarrassed? Later, when Jonathan proposed the solution of setting all his photos with her to public, so that everyone could see them, Brenda got upset this time, writing, I don't want your friends or mine to know what's going on between us. So next time, if you pose something, thing on my wall. Just make sure it's private. Jonathan replied writing, you're being really awful to me

right now. So he's calling it awful. I'm calling it very confusing. You know, on the one hand, she's saying, why can't everyone see the pictures of us? And then when he puts forward a solution to that problem, she doesn't like it. She says, I don't want them to be public. I don't want them to be public. I don't want everyone to see them. I don't know. It just seems very strange to me. Yeah, it is a little troubling to me too. And if you, your significant other says do this to make me happier. And then you do it and they say, why did you do it? You know, you sort of, to me, it would be a red flag right there that's, you know, something's off here. Well, at a certain point, do you start to feel like you're just in a no-win situation?

No matter what I do, it's not going to be right and this person is going to be upset with me. That's kind of the feeling that I'm getting. At 3 a.m. on Christmas, the two were texting furiously on the brink of breaking up. According to the Jonathan Cruz Facebook page, he asked Brenda, where does it in? When I have no one left in my life, but you, will that be enough? He added, I can be patient while you develop trust. But that's not what this is about anymore. You don't care enough to try and handle things with respect and maturity.

You just lash out. But just two hours later, Jonathan was texting Brenda that he loved her. He reassured her for over two hours via text. In January 2014, Brendan and Jonathan were fighting about someone he used to date and was still speaking to platonically. He promised not to have any more contact with her, but still, the argument continued, in person and through text.

Jonathan replied to Brenda's every question, every accusation, every hope, fear, and apology, and that really shows that he was committed to making it work and easing Brenda's mind. According to Jacob in an interview with D Magazine, Jonathan was the type of guy who liked to be with somebody. It certainly seemed that way from the messages between him and Brenda, because he definitely had opportunities to just give up.

But it seemed like what he truly wanted was to be with Brenda to make things right. His mother described Jonathan when it came to his dating life as having a pick-up the broken baby bird kind of thing. And we've seen this morph in other cases where, you know, people are attracted to others who have, you know, this issue or that issue. There are some people who are attracted. to people with, you know, certain types of issues or problems. It's almost as if they think they can help them. They can fix them. And I think that's kind of what I'm getting from his mother's description of Jonathan.

According to D Magazine, just three weeks before Jonathan's death, he and Brenda were chatting on Facebook Messenger. She asked him, what would happen if they lived together? and they got into a fight. He wrote back, I would sleep, just like I did tonight, indicating not only that they were fighting, but that it didn't really phase Jonathan. He wouldn't lose any sleepover.

On February 1st, Jonathan texted his sister, Danny. About an ultimatum, he felt that Brenda was about to issue. He knew that soon Brenda was going to tell him, he would have to choose between her or being able to talk to him. Emily, who he had known since he was in college. His options were, as he put it, fight it, and try to make it better, which will probably never happen. Number two, choose Brenda. Number three, refused to give up either and see if Brenda ends it, all of which he thought held a strong likelihood of ending the relationship. Or four, end it with Brenda now,

an option that he said limits and contain. the damage. On February 2nd, Jonathan texted Jacob about getting together for breakfast. But Jacob and Emily came to the apartment to get a tour. The apartment at the River Chase Complex was Jonathan's first living situation with no roommates. He even showed them some of his guns. Jacob remember seeing a Sig Sauer placed carefully in the dresser, loaded and chambered. The three then went out to lunch, and Jonathan was acting sort of different. They were at Anamia's Tex-Mex, a favorite restaurant of Jonathan's, but he seemed unsettled. They know the reason why now.

Jacob told Deep Magazine, he was a little awkward because he was afraid Brenda might find out that Emily was with us. He got a call from Brenda. Jacob remembers that Jonathan was visibly nervous when he got the call. Amazingly, he told Emily that Brenda wanted to talk to her. Whatever Brenda said to Emily that day rattled her.

Jacob said when she got off the phone, she ran to the bathroom crying. I was kind of shocked. It seems like this call to Emily really affected her, but unfortunately we don't know what was said during the call. And that's one thing that can be frustrating in these types of cases. You can't get every piece of information. We know there was a call. We know that it rattled Emily.

But you'd love to know exactly what was said. But we don't. What we do know is that this was the final straw for Jonathan. According to D Magazine, he told Emily and Jacob, that's it. I'm going home and packing her back. They went back to his apartment where they invited him to come to a Super Bowl party with them, but he stayed home. They hugged each other and Jacob and Emily both told him that they loved him.

The next time, either of them heard from Jonathan. It was the I Want to Die text. Sheila Wysaki spoke to Jonathan's neighbor, Sheila Mitchell. She was the neighbor who had opened the door for Brenda when she was trying to figure up the address or the name of the apartment complex. Sheila specifically remembered hearing a gunshot 20 minutes before Brenda showed up at her door. The driver that delivered their Chinese food that night remembered hearing people arguing inside the apartment and reported to their manager that they had to knock multiple times before anyone answered the door. It seemed like they had been fighting

up until the very minute that Jonathan was shot, even in Brenda's version of events. She told investigators that they were watching TV and eating Chinese food. Jonathan was sitting in bed. Brenda was sitting at the foot of the bed. According to the Jonathan Cruz Cold Case Facebook page, they were arguing about Emily, and Brent had called her, that bitch you love in the past. And that's when Jonathan told her that he would prove to her just how much he loved her. He told her to cover her years, and then the gun went off.

Sheila Wysaki doesn't believe this version of events. The following is her theory of what happened. She believes that they did fight about Emily and probably other women too that night, but that Jonathan went to sleep like he told her he would in that Facebook message. Brenda was the one who sent the text to Emily before she smashed Jonathan's phone screen and also hid the phone, maybe so that he couldn't call for her. help or maybe because she didn't think anyone would find it there. Brenda pointed the sig sour at him while he was asleep.

When she cocked the gun, it woke him up. Quickly, but not quite quickly enough. He tried to grab the gun, getting gunshot residue on his right hand. Brenda then ejected the magazine and stashed it in the tie drawer instead of where the gun belonged. Somewhere Jonathan would never put it because of the care he would. put into his tie collection. Sheila believed that Brenda then waited. Based on the timing of the 911 call and the time that passed between when Sheila Mitchell

remembers hearing the gunshot and seeing Brenda at the door, she waited at least 10 minutes to call for help. Some reports state that it could have been up to 30. Even after she was on the phone with a 911 dispatcher, Brenda didn't do what she could have done to try and help Jonathan. Look for mail, find a neighbor immediately, that kind of stuff. We've discussed in previous episodes. how hard it can be to gauge whether someone is acting or not when listening to a 911 call,

since everyone reacts to grief and shock differently, but in an emergency, every second counts. The paramedics arrived about two minutes after they had an address. If Brenda had done everything she could have to find an address sooner and call it immediately, after Jonathan was shot, they could have arrived in just minutes, possibly saving his life. So, Morph, let's go back and break down, you know, Sheila Wysaki's, theory because to me it does make quite a bit of sense. And one of the things that really jumps out at me in this case is the magazine being found, you know, in the drawer where Jonathan kept his time. Why? What would be the reason for that if he was going to end his life? Why would he

chamber one round, eject the magazine, put it in his tie drawer, and then shoot himself. That just doesn't make sense to me. But I think the other thing her version of events does is it helps explain why Jonathan had gunshot residue on his hand. And then there's the timing issue. You know, how quickly did Brenda call 911? We spent quite a bit of time. talking about how hard it was for the 911 dispatcher to get information from her.

Was this because she didn't know it or because she was intentionally trying to cause even more of a delay after she called 911? And if she was causing a delay, it could have been for a couple of reasons. It could have been to give Jonathan more time to succumb to his injuries, or it could have been more time for her to formulate a story, you know, a list of things in her head to tell the authorities, or maybe it could have even been both. In January 2016, Jonathan's family filed a wrongful death suit against Brenda Lazaro.

While being deposed in preparation, Brenda refused to answer any questions, pleading the fifth each time. Pam Cruz told ABC, I thought that was awful. For her, it was another sign that Brenda was hiding something. Pam said, if she can't answer a single question, particularly the question about

did you kill him? If you can't say no to that, it warrants a lot of further investigation. An ex-boyfriend of Brenda was also deposed in this lawsuit, and he didn't keep his mouth shut. Matthew Kirk had dated Brenda for four years. According to D Magazine, Kirk said, that girl ruined me and the relationship

between me and my family. She threatened to kill Matthew's mom at one point. He described Brenda as very jealous, which is completely in line with what we've heard about her from her own communications, as well as Jonathan's friends. Matthew explained that Brenda got crazy whenever he went around any girl, and he emphasized any girl. She even tried to stop him from going to the hospital on the day of his niece's birth. His sister-in-law, who just gave birth, was too much of a threat to Brenda. She couldn't handle it. But Matthew went to the hospital anyway, and Brenda was so upset that she harmed herself.

When he got home, Brenda was inconsolable. She was cutting herself in my bathroom. She was crying, and her hand was full of blood. And he continued by saying, this was something that she, would do often. According to him, in an ABC news article, she did it more than a hundred times. Matthew remembered having to call the police on Brenda so that they could take her to a hospital on more than one occasion. And I think when you hear some of this stuff from Matthew, assuming it's 100% true, which I don't know why he would have any reason to lie, you're getting an even

greater sense of just how jealous of a person Brenda Lazaro what. And some of the things he said mirro mirro mirrored Jonathan's interactions and experiences with Brenda. And let's face it, you know, jealousy can make people do some really, really bad thing. You know, people who are extremely jealous can go, you know, overboard pretty quick. Brenda is now married to someone else and has two children. Contrary to what she once texted Danny, according to Jonathan Cruz's cold case Facebook page, she wrote, there is not, and it won't be another guy for me. I made my choice, and he was the only and last man I truly love. Sheila Weissaki noted that in the 911 call, Brenda says he was shot in the heart. She told ABC,

I believe that's exactly where she was aiming. He broke her heart that night by breaking up. with her. And so she broke his in a way no one else ever had. Pam Cruz has some of Jonathan's ashes in a necklace that she wears every single day. But it's not the same as having him here. In 2022, a civil trial over Jonathan's death concluded and his family was awarded $206 million in damages. The jury didn't believe Jonathan had taken his own life and that Brenda was responsible for his death. Of the decision, Pam Cruz told the Dallas Morning News, I feel like my son's vindicated. That's all I wanted. But money doesn't bring Jonathan back. They want Brenda to face the music for his murder. In a May 2004 Axios article, Pam Cruz made it clear she wanted a special prosecutor to investigate her son's 2014 death.

In that article, Shiela Lasaki, still on the side of the Cruz family, said, we're not going to, in demanding, we're not going in wanting to get a law passed, we're going in asking for help. How can we do things better? It remains to be seen if any charges or a trial will ever come. And if you want to listen to full in-depth coverage of the case, I suggest you check out Sheila Wasaki's podcast without warning. Yeah, Morfew and I have both met Sheila. She's great at what she does. But I think as we wrap this one up, to date, there have been no charges. brought against Brenda Lazare. In the shooting of Jonathan Cruz, I get it.

You know, the water's a little muddy. Prosecutors may not believe that, you know, they have enough evidence to get a conviction. There's no doubt that the jury in the civil trial believed that Brenda was responsible. And we know in a civil trial, the burden of proof is much different. It's lower than it is in a criminal trial.

But that hasn't stopped Jonathan's mother pan from, you know, wanting a special prosecutor to jump back in, investigate her son's death. I don't think there's any doubt that the family, along with Sheila, Wysaki, believe that Brenda was responsible for Jonathan's death. And when you look at,

kind of all the known facts. I can see why. You know, things do seem to point in that direction. You know, she was very jealous, very controlling. She had a history of doing extreme things, sometimes to herself, when she felt as though things weren't going her way or, you know, the person who she was with was talking to her. to other women or whatever. She was just a very jealous person. I don't think there's any doubt about that. I think some people could try or would try to make the argument.

Maybe this is a family that just doesn't want to accept that their son took their own life. But then when you look back at that other history, where the same things are going on in her past relationship, it's really hard to overlook that. Yeah, there's that. And then coupled with the way that John, Jonathan was shot, you know, the angle shot in the side. You know, for me, that's a big one. Because if you're intent on taking your life, that's a very risky way to do it.

How do you know that you're not just going to cause yourself a bunch of pain and misery, but still live? And I think that's why you don't see it happen that way. all that often. Fortunately, that just seems to cloudy the water a little bit and police just don't have that one piece of evidence that might help them bring charges. Yeah, and that's what it comes down to, right? Can you put forth enough to where a jury would convict Brenda Lizarre? And my thought is at this point, even if they believe she's responsible, they don't believe

they could get that done. And as we know, you only get that one shot, right? So you got to make it count. Now, the question is, what would they need? And is there anything that would come forward in the future that would help them in that effort? And I don't know what it would be. Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's any likelihood that some missing evidence would turn up, a witness, you know, it doesn't seem like anything like that's going to turn up after all this time. So you have to wonder,

what are the chances that chart has come in the future with this case? Yeah, because you have a lot of things that don't look good as it relates to, to Brenda Lazzaro, but not looking good is not enough, right? In court, most of the time,

you need something, to kind of remove that reasonable doubt in the minds of jurors. And, you know, I'm picturing myself as a juror. With what we think the evidence presented in court would be, I could see myself with a degree of reasonable doubt. Even if I thought in my head, more likely than not, she did it. Would I be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt? I don't know with what we've talked about.

But I guess this is one of those morph that, you know, we'll have to keep an eye on. Will we see a break in the future? Will we ever see her charged in this case? I can't imagine that the family is going to see much of the $206 million. Yeah, it seems like sometimes those penalties are set, even though the person may not be able to pay for it, just to say this is how strongly we'll, we believe that this person is responsible. But we did hear Jonathan's mom, Pam, say that, you know, she felt as though that vindicated her son, that decision, that a jury thought Brenda killed him.

And so I'm sure there's some solace in that fact. But I'm assuming that's just not enough. They want to see her pay for what she did. I just don't know if it'll ever happen. But that's it for our episode on Jonathan Cruz. If you love the show, but haven't done so yet, go out, take a minute, you know, leave us a five-star rating. You can leave a review as well.

Also, keep telling your friends that word of mouth about the criminology podcast really goes a long way. If you want to find us on social media, we're on X with the handle at Criminal. Pod. You can also find us on Facebook by going to facebook.com slash criminology podcast. And you can join our Facebook discussion group, criminology podcast discussion in fans. So that's it for another episode of criminology. But Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then for Mike and Morph. We'll talk to you next week. Take care, everyone.