Criminology - Katie Janness

Episode Date: June 19, 2022

In July 2021, 40-year-old Katie Janness was murdered in Atlanta's Piedmont Park. Her partner, Emma Clark, found Katie's body along with their dog Bowie just inside the park and called 911. The murder was extremely brutal and included mutilation which has led some to believe Katie's killer was known to her. The aspects of the murder have led to much speculation by the public. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the murder of Katie Janness. Much of the public's speculation has fallen on Katie's partner Emma. Some believe that Emma's behavior on the 911 call doesn't match what they believe it should have been. And, despite her pleas, the police have yet to officially clear Emma which further fuels speculation on just exactly what evidence the police have. Many questions remain including just who murdered Katie Janness. Was her killer someone inside her inner circle or was she the victim of a predator who saw Katie in the park and targeted her? You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology An Emash Digital production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. So, everyone, and welcome to episode 212 of the Criminology podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Mr. Mike Morford. What is going on with you, buddy? Quite a lot.

I'm actually busy. I know a lot of the time I say not much, but I've been a little bit busy starting a new podcast that I co-host called Citizen Detective. I hope that some of the listeners here want to come over and check it out. We talk with citizen detectives, amateurs, sluice, people at home that work on these cases and obsess over them, and we have them come on the show and sort of interact with us. So that shows out right now. I hope people go out and check it out.

I think it's a great idea, and I'm looking forward to listening to it. I hope other people do as well. Yeah, we see it all over the place. There's all these different websites and forums and things like that for cases where people get together and sort of sleuth them out, check them out. So I think it's really cool, cool idea. And hopefully people like it.

Yeah, there's an amateur detective in all of us, right? Yeah. What's new with you? Are you enjoying the outdoors? I am not because it's 105 degrees. It's absolutely scorching right now. Welcome to my world. Yeah, this is your world most of the time.

Hey, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Merle Carter, Rosemary Schwartz, Karen Brews, Catherine, Gonzalez, and Diana. So that's a lot of great new support more if we really appreciate it. Yeah, every episode, you say those names, and I'm just amazed that so many people are willing to help the show out, and we can't thank you enough. And anyone that would like to support criminology can do so by going to patreon.com slash criminology. All right, buddy, let's go ahead and jump into this case. And it's a fairly recent case, one that many people have, you know, kept an eye on. We're telling the story of an honoring someone who was murdered perhaps simply for being gay.

And on the surface at least, it seems like that is a real possibility. But as we get deeper into the case a bit, some listeners may start to look at some other possibilities. We do want to warn you that we do mention violence towards a pet dog in this episode. And more of you and I have talked about it before. But for many of us who love our pets, it's sometimes very hard. To hear about that, we will go out of our way to keep the details brief. But the details are important. The pet dog in this case is very important to the telling of the case.

We're talking about the case of Katie Janesse. In July 2021, 40-year-old Catherine Ginesse, or Katie, as she was known, and her long-time partner, Emma Clark, were living together in Midtown Atlanta. They had been together for close to seven years officially, but had known each other even longer than that. In news articles, sometimes Emma is referred to as Katie's girlfriend and other times, her wife. But by all accounts, the two had a great relationship and seemed happy together. They were living in a place that was a great melting pot, and people were living in a place that was a great melting pot, and people of all types were made to feel welcome and accepted, at least by most people. Katie was a musician, self-taught on guitar, and she sang songs that she wrote herself.

She worked as a bartender at multiple establishments in the area, including the Italian restaurant, Campagnolo on Piedmont Avenue, and Whole World Improv Theater on Spring Street. She had lived in Midtown Atlanta for about 10 years. Emma was working as a server at Henry's Midtown Tavern on 10th Street, street in Atlanta, just a few blocks away from Piedmont Park. Piedmont Park is a massive park of almost 200 acres with sidewalks, green fields and trails surrounded by tall trees. It's a very popular place for people to jog or walk, walk their dogs, or just get away

from the hustle and bustle of big city life. Around 11.30 p.m. on July 28th, Katie stopped into Henry's Midtown Tavern and and talked with Emma, as she would often do when she was on her way to walk her dog Bowie, a three-year-old pit bull mix. When Katie took a route near Henry's, she and Bowie would stop and visit with Emma for a few minutes before continuing on their way, Emma and Katie said their goodbyes and Katie walked off with Bowie towards Piedmont Park, which was in the opposite direction of their home. Emma would later tell CBS 46 news that she said,

I love you, be safe, and I'll see you later. It's worth noting that according to the park's official website, the park is open from 6 a.m. until 11 p.m. So we're not exactly sure how accessible the park would be to dog walkers or others after 11 p.m. And just how typical it was to be walking their dog in that area after closing. But my thought, morph is that, you know, when you're dealing with the park that's almost 200 acres. Can you really close it down? And my thought is no, you know, really you can't. Now, maybe park services and staff, you know, their jobs all end at 11 p.m. But essentially,

the park can never really close. And I know we definitely have some people from Atlanta listening to us who can give us a better idea or, you know, details of that park. But, from what we could gather. It's certainly a popular place. There's no doubt about that. And the time is certainly interesting because Katie stopped in with Bowie to see Emma at about 1130 p.m. After the official park closing time, after getting off work that night, Emma had at home thinking that Katie would be there waiting for her. Since Piedmont Park was in the opposite direction of their home, Emma figured Katie had made it home already and was settled in. Because if she wasn't, she would have been there with Bowie waiting for her to get off work, and they weren't there.

At around 12.30 a.m., Emma opened the door to an empty house. There was no sign of Bowie who would normally greet her at the door, and also no sign of Katie either. Katie was usually home when Emma got off work, and if she wasn't, Emma would call her and they'd touch base. So when Emma called Katie and she didn't answer, Emma became immediately concerned and texted Katie, but got no reply. This was completely unlike Katie, which worried Emma. even more. She kept calling, but there's no answer. And she kept texting, but got no replies. And this is a recent case, more if we just said, you know, it's 2021. Everyone has a cell phone. You know, I was doing a case. I don't remember if it was on T-CAD or on T-Cat Unsolved.

But Gibby and I were talking about cell phones because the case was back in the 60s or 70s. It was obviously pre-cell phone. And someone was trying to. to get a hold of someone else. And you just think back to that period of time and how hard it was compared to today to actually get a hold of someone unless you knew what establishment or, you know, place they, they were at. You know, the cell phone gives us all a single kind of point of contact. People don't need to know where you are.

They just call your number because you're going to have your cell phone. with you. Just so much different when you're talking about cases from different eras. And really, I would just say pre-cell phone versus, you know, post-cell phone. Yeah. And I think younger listeners, especially, they're probably like, what are they talking about? But I remember as a teenager trying to get a hold of someone and you'd have to call one person who hopefully said, oh, check with so-and-so. And then you'd have to call that person and you're depending if you're calling from home or you're out, you're sticking quarters in a in a phone booth someplace. So it really was a whole different era of talking to people and trying to figure out where they were. Or, you know,

you were, you were calling different homes, talking to parents. Hey, just calling, I'm looking for so-and-so. No, they're not here. Try here. So you call the next house. You end up talking to people's parents that you didn't want to talk to. Yeah, definitely a different, a whole different ballgame back then. So Emma was worried. Obviously. she didn't know really what to do, she decided to go out and search for Katie along the routes that she knew she would normally walk Bowie. When Emma didn't find Katie, she remembered that she could use the find my phone feature on their iPhones. And when she did that, she saw something strange. Katie's location was showing up as Piedmont Park. But the icon didn't show her walking through the park.

It showed her phone just sitting there, not moving. Emma's first thought was that Katie must have dropped her phone somewhere in the park and she must be out in the dark trying to find it. And when I just talked about cell phones, I didn't even mention the find my iPhone type app or there's another one that's really popular called Life 360. But a lot of these really allow you to keep track of people or find people very quickly. within your family or whoever you have on your plan with you.

And we talked about this park, right? Close to 200 acres in size. It is a lot like New York Central Park. If you were to lose your phone in a park like this, it could be very difficult to find, especially at night. This could explain why Katie had been gone for so long. So Emma thought she would end up helping Katie search for her phone and headed towards the spot where Katie's phone was showing.

Emma made her way to the entrance of Piedmont Park at 10th Street in Charles Allen Drive, and she went in to find Katie. Very near the entrance. Emma saw what she thought was a large trash bag on the ground, but she quickly realized that what she was looking at was a dog lying on the ground. And as she stared closer, she knew it was Bowie. He was clearly dead. She frantically began searching the park, running toward the dot on her phone,

looking for Katie on the Find My Phone app. But the search didn't last long. At 1.10 a.m., Emma made the tragic discovery. Just 100 feet inside the park, Katie was lying on the ground near a tree. And although the lighting wasn't the best, Emma could see that Katie was covered in blood. Emma tried to find a pulse, but she couldn't, and she called 911. We're going to play that 911 call here.

It's a couple minutes long. It's what some people hear or don't hear in this call that has led them down one path or another. as far as what they believe happened to Katie and who might be responsible. Atlanta 911, 911, operated 7-950. What's the address to your emergency? Sir, I'm at the entrance at Pima Park. I just was searching to my girlfriend, sir, because I can have hired her.

She's dead. She's here at Pied my Park. Please help. You said somebody's dead at Pied my Park? Yes, no. Please help. Please. All right, yes, ma'am.

I'm going to spend help to you. All right, can I get your name? Get a callback number? I know. I'm like, I'm like fucking girlfriend. What the fuck? Yes. Oh my God, dude.

She's like she's dead dead. Like, it's so far. All right. I'm about to call Grady, okay? Grady, EMS. With the address of your emergency. Hey, Grady. I have one for 1073 P.

My Avenue Northeast. We have a call on the line. Yes, ma'am. Are you still on the line? Okay, I guess she must have disconnected. She said her girlfriend is dead in the park. A girlfriend is dead in the park? Yeah, it's Pimae Park.

Okay, did she advise where at in the park? She was saying she was at the entrance. Okay, okay. Can we get fire in PD? I'm not one-five. Yes, ma'am. I already sent him. Thank you to 911. What's operator? 7-9-5-9.

All right, thank you. We'll have up and wrong. All right. And Morph, like you said, it is this 911 call that has created some controversy online. And I think contributed to a lot of people's, suspicion towards Emma. And we find this with a lot of 911 calls. People dissect them. They read into them. And, you know, things can go the way of the caller or they can go against the collar when it comes to public perception. You know, I recently rewatched the staircase

documentary. And, you know, a big part of that case is Michael Peterson's 911 call. People have dissected that thing for years. Yeah, they think people are too emotional, not emotional enough. They're too excited. They're too calm. It's almost, you're damned if you do. You damned if you don't. You make a 911 call. And you don't know. And I happened to call 911 the other day because I was out and I saw a woman fall. Ironically, we were in front of a doctor's office, but it was closed. And I called 911 and it was my first time ever calling 911. And this was just for a woman who fell. And I, I think looking back now, I was kind of frantic or nervous and anxious making that call. And my voice was probably a little shaky. So in this kind of situation, I don't even know what I would

sound like. So, you know, I sort of feel for Emma here. Well, and it's interesting that you bring that up because I did call 911 this year. My wife passed out and my kids were with me. They were, they were crying. We were all shaken up. But when I made the 911 call, apparently I was extremely calm because my kid said afterwards, how could you be so calm on the phone? And I think those two stories highlight the differences in people, not every single person hand, the situation the same way. And I think we do have to be careful of making too many assumptions based on somebody's demeanor in a crisis situation.

Now, many times it comes out later that those suspicions end up being correct, but a lot of times they don't. So going back to the call, Emma said in that call in, you know, what you'd have to call, kind of a small, quiet, shaky voice. I'm at the entrance of Piedmont Park. I just was searching for my girlfriend because I couldn't find her. She's dead. She's here at Piedmont Park.

Please help. Now, she starts off sounding pretty composed and calm. Again, too calm in the minds of many people, not the kind of emotion that many would expect from someone who just found a loved one dead, along with their beloved dog. But as you listen to Emma in that call, her voice goes from a tense but quiet sound to an actual whisper and then kind of back again, this could be her trying to remain calm in an effort to relay to the 911 dispatcher what he needed to know to get her help.

I think that's what happened in my situation, doing what we do, listening to as many 911 calls as we have. It was in my head that I needed to be calm in order to relay the information correctly. I think we've probably said it a thousand times. You can't always make a judgment about someone based on how they react in a stressful situation, whether they're calm, excited or crying hysterically. Everyone has a different reaction when put in that type situation. And what I've always said, Morp, is you really never know how you're going to handle it until you're in that moment. You can think you know how you would handle it, but you really don't. Further along in that call, it seemed as if suddenly Emma's rocked out of her shock by someone

else's voice there in the park. You can hear someone else in the background, someone just walking through Piedmont Park, yell. Emma replies, did you just see that? That's my fucking girlfriend. The other person in the park has heard yelling, what the fuck? In response, after this, Emma sounds shocked again. Oh, my God, dude. Please, like she's dead. Dead.

Like it's so fucked, she tells the dispatcher. To some who don't trust Emma, it was dehumanizing to ask, did you see that? That's my fucking girlfriend. And it just seems cold and insensitive. And again, we're talking about, you know, people online, making comments. kind of trying to dissect this 911 call. When police arrived at the park, they were greeted with a brutal crime scene. It appeared that Katie had been savagely stabbed repeatedly, as was Bowie.

One earbud was reportedly found near Katie's right ear. She still had $5 in the small pocket of her jeans, so it seemed like robbery wasn't a motive for the attack. It also appeared to investigators that Katie was not sexually assault. but that would have to be confirmed by the medical examiner. If robbery and sexual assault weren't motives for the murder, then what was? Police seemed to think that Katie and Bowie entered Piedmont Park and were almost immediately attacked with Bowie being stabbed first and Katie trying to run from their attacker, but only making it about 100 feet.

They theorized that perhaps she was listening to music based on the earbut, and and didn't hear her killer sneak up behind her. I think whoever did this definitely took a chance because there's a young, strong dog there that's part pit bull, and you have to wonder if that person was prepared if Bowie was able to see the attacker in time or catch his center, whatever, he might attack on his own and defend Katie.

So that person took a big chance in the first place just attacking someone with a dog, I think, especially a pit bull. Well, and I think you're, you're delving into some of the issues in this case, right? Who is this attacker? Was it a complete stranger? Was it someone possibly who knew Katie and Bowie? And all of those factors kind of play in here. Police turned to video surveillance, hoping that the killer might be revealed on the footage,

and the park did have CCTV. Unfortunately, the cameras at... Piedmont Park weren't working that night. According to Fox 5, there are nine security cameras inside Piedmont Park, but none were operational due to outdated technology. The non-functioning cameras were left up because their presence was deemed valuable, sort of a deterrent. After all, the criminals didn't know the cameras weren't working.

But that left the vulnerable public who felt safe in a well-traveled park with security cameras recording 24-7. This seems like a tragic mistake by the city and park officials. which directly contributed Katie's murder going unsolved for almost a year now. Police did find footage of Katie on her way to the park. They released an image from the surveillance, a grainy image of Katie walking across a rainbow-painted crosswalk with Bowie. The crosswalks in that area were painted that way to honor the LGBTQ community.

In that surveillance, Katie and Bowie seemed fine, and there's no indication of anyone following behind them. Police did find various potential witnesses through surveillance, and other means that they wanted to talk to, thinking that they might have something to offer. Although some of them have been identified and spoken to, we don't know if any of them have provided any information that might lead to a suspect.

With no clear motives or witnesses, police turn to the bodies of Katie and Bowie, hoping that the killer might have left something behind that could help ID him or her. Investigators ordered a necropsy for Bowie, but the results have not been released authorities believe that Bowie died trying to protect Katie. So according to Fox 5 Atlanta, they tried to search for DNA that may have ended up on or in the mouth of Boe.

They were also looking for DNA that may be under his nails from scratching the attacker. And this is fascinating, morph, because we all know about victims sometimes clawing their attackers, getting bits of skin under their fingernails. or biting an attacker and having flesh in their teeth or around their mouth, all of that could possibly yield a killer's DNA. But how often do we talk about searching a dog for that same type of material? It's really interesting. But again, if they found anything of interest, we don't know. Since police have not released the findings publicly,

they did wind up releasing the findings from Katie's autopsy. And the details were shocking to say the least and proved just how sadistic and violent the killer was. In early November 2021, the autopsy report for Katie was finally released. As reported by Fox 5 Atlanta, it confirmed that her cause of death was sharp force injuries. The listed reason for performing an examination is that Katie was assaulted by another person or by other individuals. She had been stabbed over 50 times in the face, neck, torso, and back. It was a savage attack on her. The report states that at least 15 intersecting cuts on her face,

from the forehead to the chin, actually alter the contour of the face. There were also a few contusions and abrasions on her face and neck from something blunt hitting her during the attack. Both of her carotid arteries, there's one on either side of your neck, were cut into. This was apparently a frenzied blitz attack. but as fast as it began, the killer slowed down and then stopped the attack. They leaned down over Katie as she bled out on the ground and did something unimaginable. There were early reports that Katie's killer hadn't just slashed at random.

They had also carved a word into her stomach. The autopsy report finally confirmed this piece of information. It was the letters F.A. And possibly T. Fox 5 News reported that Katie's killer carved the word fat and detailed intersecting incised wounds on the middle and right side of her upper chest and upper abdomen formed FAA and that on the left side of her lower chest cuts forming the letter T. The T is two inches above the FA. It seems like it was almost diagonal in the middle of her. chest area. Some people have wondered if the intended word could have actually been a gay slur

and that the T was perhaps actually meant to be a G. But the autopsy report notes that the lower part of the T is composed of two parallel incisions. So it does not sound like the attacker was trying to make the letter G. This carving, whatever it was supposed to be, seems intentional. It's less deep than some of the other cuts or stabs that would have come from the ambush, even the ones in the same area. But some of the lines are deep enough to be very intentional. And if it is, it's very disturbing. We already know more of that. We're dealing with a cold, blooded, brutal killer. But then if they also carved a word into Katie's body as she lay dying, that just adds a whole other level. to this. Yeah, it seems like it's something out of a horror movie that you'd see, like the movie

seven comes to mind, the men of the killer, taking the time to torture someone and then displaying this kind of message to be found later on. It's really shocking. Yeah, seven jumped out at me, maybe something like the movie Copycat. You know, there have been a lot of movies. You'd call them horror slash serial killer movies. very scary because of, you know, the links that some of these killers are willing to go to. Moving on to the rest of the examination, which was detailed and laid out well by Fox 5,

Katie was at least partially clothed when she was stabbed, as it is noted that defects in the shirt correspond to wounds on the body, which happens when someone is cut while wearing clothing. The clothes will rip or have holes in the same areas. Not only that, but some of her wounds, many of them actually, had pieces of her clothes in them. Although her blue jeans were down around her knees, no vaginal injuries are noted by the medical examiner, which led them to conclude Katie was not sexually assaulted, just as investigators believed early on.

The medical examiner did perform a sexual assault swab kit during the autopsy for Katie, but there have been no updates on whether any foreign DNA was found. There were a few deep gashes on Katie's palms and fingers, signs that she put her hands out in front of her face to defend herself as she was being attacked. She was also stabbed in the back, which confirmed police suspicion

that perhaps she was attacked from behind or had run from her attacker. And when they caught up to her, they stabbed her in the back. The most serious stab wounds to her upper back were noted to be oriented in the 10 o'clock to 4 o'clock and 1 o'clock to 7 o'clock positions. If you imagine an analog clock,

picture a line going from the 10, and then diagonally across the clock down to the 4th. These are the directions that the weapon traveled. The two different angles of the wounds don't necessarily indicate two killers or two different weapons, but rather the fact that Katie moved or turn during the attack, thus the varying angles.

Because most of the wounds are oriented in that diagonal right to left angle, it's possible that the attacker stabbed Katie with their right hand. There were injuries to Katie's lower back as well, mostly focused on a colorful tattoo that she had. Fox 5 stated that at least 14 cuts or stab wounds were centered on that area where the tattoo was. The injuries were clearly intentional, but not so deep. came from trying to kill her. I reached out to our friend Paul Holes, who's familiar with Katie's case, and he had worked a similar series of attacks in Pittsburgh, California. He told me that he's read

the full autopsy report, but hasn't seen the photos yet. But based on what's laid out in Katie's murder and what's known about her case, he thinks that Katie was the victim of a stranger who was a sexual sadist and predator. And of course, if Paul is on the money here, this is the kind of killer that's not likely going to stop with one victim. Well, we know Paul, we respect Paul. You'd have to say more, obviously, he can't always be right. But you don't want to bet against Paul Holtz. I can tell you that.

Yeah, and the fact that he worked on a similar series, he mentioned that it was like deja vu, the similarities to those injuries. So not saying that it's the same person, but just shows that there are killers that sort of have the same tendency. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder which emergency. We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer.

For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020. Blood and Water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. The attacker after focusing on Katie's lower back Then seemed to switch focus to her face and neck Unlike other areas of her body Or other medical examiner reports even

The neck wounds are not itemized Because there are several overlapping interconnecting incisions The cuts on her face were not as deep As some of the other cuts or stab wounds on her body This suggests that this was done on purpose more of a mutilation than part of the attempt to subdue or kill her as she was already dead or dying. Morph this is disturbing on so many levels. You know, to me, it really shows that this killer spent a lot of time and effort to specifically disfigure and mutilate Katie.

But aside from the letters carved and the special attention paid to specific areas of Katie's body. There are three other injuries that just seem odd. The attacker basically cut around the sides and bottom of her left breast, but didn't finish cutting the top or move on to her right breast. Historically, this kind of mutilation seems to go a bit further. What are thought to be victims of Jack DeRipper were said to have had breasts cut entirely off and organs rearranged around the body or just entirely missing.

The details of Katie's autopsy report bring to mind the crime scene photo of Jack the Ripper's victim Mary Jane Kelly from 1888. She's covered in blood and gashes, but if you only saw her leg, you wouldn't even know it was a crime scene photo. It seems that for Jack the Ripper and for the killer of Katie Janess, it wasn't just about stabbing or slashing. It was about specific areas of the body. The deepest wounds on Katie seem very intentional. They're not stab wounds. There's a 13-inch long cut, at least two inches deep, running vertically from the middle of her chest down to her

pubic area. There's another cut, again, at least two inches deep, going vertically down through her natal cleft. What we know is a butt crack. Again, the medical examiner specifically noted no vaginal wounds. And this cut down her natal cleft stopped just before the anus. So it seemed like the attacker pulled down her pants, cut her, and then left the scene. Was this by choice? Or was the killer interrupted by something or someone? There were no injuries to Katie's legs other than a few contusions, but there was blood on each of her thighs that wasn't caused by an injury in that area of her body. So perhaps this could be explained by someone with bloody hands touching her inner thighs. Without any reported evidence of sexual assault, it's almost as if the killer wanted Katie's murder to look sexually motivated or like her attack was specifically based on her gender.

Why cut areas so close to private parts, but not the actual private parts if you're angry or maybe full of hatred for women or lesbians specifically? the way her face was mutilated and the carving of the possible word fat seems to some to be much more like this was personally targeted and katy's killer tried to distance the killing from themselves some people have theorized that the wounds inflicted were so over the top that it was calculated to make it look like this was some type of frenzied sexual sedative. Rather than someone who actually knew Katie was familiar with Katie, Stephanie Scott Snyder, an adjunct professor of psychology, told crime online that the act of carving the letters FAT into Katie's abdomen wasn't necessary to kill her. Rather, it fulfilled an emotional need for her murderer. To focus on the word fat and try and solve this case might be a mistake.

It seems important because it tragically seems that Katie was still struggling while her attacker is trying to carve the word into her. Carving a word in a straight line and at a controlled depth would be easier if someone was lying completely still. Hammerging in the facial wound shows that Katie was still alive for at least some of the letters being carved onto her. And being stabbed on the ground during a struggle would also explain the shifting position, changing the orientation of the wounds, as well as a rushed and crooked attempt at carving the words. Her moving around would also explain why it looks like it took two tries to make the vertical part of the teeth. Now, one thing many people have asked is why was the medical examiner's report released to the public with the included information about what was carved? Wouldn't this be something police would want to use, want to hold back to confirm any potential suspect's knowledge of the crime? This suggests that perhaps there were other things that were done.

or other clues, perhaps some other type of smoking gun evidence that authorities can use to help identify the true suspect and not get a false confession. If police are holding anything back or have DNA from the killer, that still has not been made public. And I do think more if this is an interesting topic, this carving really kind of intrigues people. It's just one of the things that draws them to this case, but it does seem like that's the sort of thing. If it could have been kept quiet, that only the killer would have known and police could have used that down the road. So, you know, maybe there is something else that they can use.

But I think it's a valid question to ask, you know, why was that information released? We know police often hold back this. type of information that they believe only the killer would know. Yeah, that makes me wonder if as crazy and bizarre as this stuff is that they've released, what else might there be that they're holding back that could be even worse or more bizarre. So you have to wonder the complete overview of this case, how depraved was this person and what else might they have done? Well, we already know it was brutal. I think to your point, how much more brutal could it have been?

It's always frustrating to me when you're talking about a case so early, especially a case that hasn't been solved because you don't get all the details. But for amateur detectives, that is part of the draw. We want to dive into this case. We want to research it. We want to come up with our own theories and kind of see what fits and what doesn't fit. And I think we have to talk about motives in Katie's murder or lack thereof. Robbery didn't seem to be the motive, nor was sexual assault, although we don't know if the killer was scared off by someone walking nearby or what they may have done if given more time. So was this a deranged person lying in wait for whatever random person crossed her path?

Was Katie the intended target all along and someone either knew she'd be in the area at the time or somehow they followed her there? If so, does the person have a personal connection to Katie? You can make the old argument that someone who goes off suddenly stabbing someone repeatedly is committing a crime of passion and therefore knows the victim. But that doesn't line up with the time that the killer spent disfiguring and mutilating Katie after. One thing is clear, whomever the killer was, they would have left the crime scene covered in blood. It would have been all over their clothes and their body. We talked earlier about the surveillance inside the park, not working, and that, surveillance outside of the park did lead to potential witnesses. Police wanted to talk to

and photos or videos of six possible witnesses have been publicly released so far. We have not seen footage of Emma entering or leaving the park so there could be more footage with other people we don't know about. How many people walked past a murderer that night? In April 22, CBS 46 Atlanta reported that investigative reporter Rochelle Polanski noticed three new visible surveillance cameras in Piedmont Park and reached out to the Atlanta Department of Parks and Recreation. Officials for the department confirmed that there are now over 30 working cameras in Piedmont Park. The new cameras may help prevent or solve future crimes,

but sadly they won't help in Katie's case. And it is something more if that, I didn't really expand on when we talked about those cameras. We mentioned it, right? Almost 200 acres. I didn't feel as though the number of cameras that they had seemed sufficient. And then obviously when you figure out that a large number of them aren't working anyway, that's very disappointing. Yeah.

And I think in general, people are reactive instead of proactive. You know, we see tragedies happen where, you know, the, change something afterwards or something that could have been in place or was in place but wasn't working properly sort of hindered that. I think we see that time and time again. And then all of a sudden, after the tragedy, whatever kind of tragedy that is, things are done, implemented, changed to improve the situation so that it doesn't happen in the future. But as we mentioned, that doesn't help, unfortunately, in Katie's case. Yeah, but in a lot of those, I feel like maybe it would have been hard for somebody to predict that certain things were going to happen. I think when you have a large

park like Piedmont Park, you can predict that there is the potential for some bad things to happen. It's a lot of area. You know, you're talking about nightfall. It gets dark. Not too hard for me to think that, you know, if I was involved in the maintenance of that park, it would cross my mind. We need to make sure, number one, that we have enough cameras. But absolutely, we need to make sure that the cameras we do have actually work. That just seems like common sense. Yeah, it does seem like common sense. And it, that area seems like a prime spot to target unaware people that are, you know,

walking their dog, jogging, whatever they're doing, they're not paying attention, it's dark. You could easily ambush someone and rob them or in this case, brutally kill them. So you think they would have had the sense to say this is an area we need to have eyes on and surveillance on and have that up and running instead of letting something like this happen before they change that. A lot of people have continued to sleuth this case online. They bring up some good questions. many wonder why no one heard Katie scream that night,

which on a calm quiet night, the sound of a scream might carry. And some people believe that points to Katie knowing her attacker and being attacked suddenly without warning. This could be possible, of course. During a heated situation, you may try to placate someone or calm them down before screaming for help in public, if you know them.

Whereas if it was a stranger that came up to you angrily, you'd probably be a lot quicker to get someone's attention. Looking through the injuries listed on the autopsy report, though, it paints a grim, helpless picture. Two of the stab wounds to Katie's back punctured her lung and caused it to fill with blood. Her throat was also slashed. It's unclear what were these injuries happen in, but they all would have affected her ability to breathe and scream for help. Katie is not the first person to be killed in an Atlanta area park, and she's not the first victim killed in Piedmont Park to have their case go unsolved. In late May 2009,

43-year-old Patrick Boland was stabbed in the chest near the lake inside the park. Authorities were quick to announce that Patrick's murder was unrelated to a second stabbing that occurred just 15 minutes later blocks away. According to Project Q.us and an Atlanta-based website and news outlet focused on LGBTQ issues

Major Kyris Williams with the Atlanta Police Department's Zone 5 was quoted as saying, this morning's homicide at Piedmont Park is likely to be male hustling related, meaning that officials believe Patrick had been killed while in the park at night looking to hook up with another man. Matt Hennie, founder of Project Q, calls this victim blaming, likening it to asking whether a female victim of sexual assault was wearing a skirt. As of August 2021, Patrick Boland's murder was also still unsolved. In looking back at Katie's tragic and violent murder, Emma says that she can't think of anyone who would have wanted to hurt Katie and can't think of anything she could have done to anyone that would result in someone wanting to do what they did to her.

As for the suspicion that's fallen on Emma herself, she believed that the Atlanta Police Department had cleared her as a suspect, saying to CBS 46 that they never treated me like they thought I had anything to do with it. Emma told 11alive.com that she knows that she didn't kill Katie, who she called her favorite person in the world, and cooperated with authorities. She went on to say, I would like for them to come out and say I had nothing to do with it. Nobody in my family had anything to do with it. And we mentioned that there has been suspicion regarding Emma. Now, a lot of that you can see online. Some of it stems back from the 911 call and what people make of her mannerisms and the way that that call transpired.

We say it all the time. Or if very tough. If you had nothing to do with it, to lose your partner. So you're grieving that law. and then to have, you know, this cloud of suspicion kind of hanging over your head. That would be very, very tough to deal with. Yeah, and I think people are sort of looking at the odds here when they look at Emma because in most cases, someone that's murdered is murdered by someone close to them, someone they know.

So it makes sense they would start out by looking at Emma. And I think some of that's based on, you know, her mannerisms, maybe. be her, what they perceive as her coldness. But if we're to believe that Emma had anything to do with it, we also have to accept that she would be willing to try and cover it up by doing all this violent, awful stuff that we've described in this episode, carving names in her, cutting her in certain areas. You know, that's really, really hard for me to swallow. And I just, I have a hard time picturing that she would do that to someone she loved.

Even if, even if she had killed her in a fit of rage, I just would have a hard time seeing she would do that other stuff. But again, we see cases all the time where things turn out to be what we don't expect. So in this case, who knows what to believe? I think for me, Morph, as it relates to Emma, you would have to look at the motive. What would the motive be? And I don't know what it would be. Now, people online have speculated, as they often do.

Some people have speculated that there was some sort of rift between the two that culminated in Katie's murder. We don't know about life insurance or, you know, some of those other types of motivations that we see in other cases, but I haven't seen anything concrete that points to a motive for Emma to kill Katie. Yeah, that seems like a big reason a lot of times. Obviously, murders happen that are unplanned and there is no motive. It's a spur of the moment, heated thing that happens. But unless there's a clear motive here, what would she do this for? I think one thing we don't know, and the police obviously do, is are things like when Emma arrived at the park, what they saw when she went in, how long was she there before the 911 call came?

Because it sounds like Katie was attacked very soon after going into the park. So if for some reason, for example, if Emma went into the park and was in there for 20 minutes and then called 911, well, that's kind of trouble. because Katie was found very close to the entrance. So you would think that she would have found her immediately and called 911. So they might be looking at things like that. The police might be and holding that back for a reason. We don't know. And some of that might also clear, Emma.

We just don't know. Yeah. So I was thinking, too, you know, people knowing what time she left her place of employment, time of death, all of that stuff may factor into clear. clearing her as well. I think the problem is to date, it hasn't. You know, despite Emma's pleased to have her name cleared, the Atlanta Police Department has refused to publicly clear Emma's name, only releasing the following statement. The investigation into the murder of Catherine Janesse remains open and very active. Our investigators continue working tirelessly to find the person or persons responsible. We understand it's frustrating. for there to be so little information released publicly. However, to ensure the investigation isn't compromised, we simply cannot release much information on our active investigation.

We know how important this case is to those in our communities, and we will continue our work to bring this investigation to a resolution. And I understand that statement completely. The public wants as much information as they can get. the police and the authorities have to decide how much information they can disseminate and make sure that the information they do give out is only information that won't harm the investigation. Emma Clark has bought a gun to protect herself due to the hatred and threats she has faced from people who are suspicious of her. She gets phone calls. She gets voicemails with

tirades filled with expletives, people saying that they know she's guilty. And people telling her that her time as a free woman is almost up. So again, Morpharity kind of touched on it, but not only has she lost a person she most loved, she now has to face suspicion at basically every turn. So we always talk about wanting cases to be solved. And there are a number of reasons why we want to. to see cases solved. Hopefully this case will be solved soon and Katie's and Bowie's killer will face justice. You know, I think you want justice for Katie. First and foremost, you want

justice for her family. But then, you know, you kind of have to circle back to Emma. If she did not have anything to do with this, which again, a lot of people suspect that maybe she did, I don't know. I'm not seeing anything that's making me believe that, you would like to see this case solved and her vindicated if she truly was a victim in this whole thing as well. One thing that came to my mind, as you were just wrapping this up about clearing Emma's name, is what we don't know and what police do know is what was her condition when they arrived at the park, was she covered in blood? Was she cooperative?

Even if she does have blood on her, is it because she bent down and tried to help Katie, maybe hugged her, whatever, it could explain it. But as we mentioned, whoever murdered Katie has definitely, they were covered in blood. So it'd be interesting to see what the condition was of Emma and her clothing and that kind of thing when police arrived. Yeah, that's a great point to make. my other thought is obviously, police don't have any evidence or at the very least, they don't have enough evidence to charge Emma with anything or they would have already done it.

Now, what do you make of the not clearing her? Is that just because there are still some lingering questions? They don't want to come out and, you know, kind of provide the finality of actually saying she's been cleared when there's still some lingering questions. And maybe it's something as simple as they think she may not have committed the murder, but maybe she knows who did or has some information about it or something

along those lines. We just don't know. And it's, it's pretty much speculation. Well, I will say this. I do feel bad for Emma Clark. If, and it's the if that's, you have to put that caveat in there, she had nothing to do with the murder of Katie Janette. I feel. I feel. horrible for her if that's the case. If that's not the case, then hopefully we find that out and there's a resolution to whatever role she played. Yeah, this is one of those cases we're just going to have to stay tuned for updates and see what developments come. And more of as we're wrapping up, I do think we need to circle back to the very beginning at the onset of this episode. I said that Katie Janice may have been killed for being gay. You know, that is something that a lot of people

have talked about. I think most likely a lot of that talk online comes from the letters carved into Katie. I think maybe it's a stretch. I don't know if that really makes sense to me that the T was supposed to be a G. Again, I don't know what the letters FAT are meant to stand for. As it relates to this case, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. So, I mean, you'd have to say this case all around is a real head scratcher. Yeah, and I think that's what makes it so bizarre. You know, is this someone within Katie's circle that knew her, that she knew, that she perhaps trusted? Or is this just a. case of a some maniac that was out there lying in wait for whoever came along. And I think

that just proves what a challenge just is for police to sort of explore all of the possibilities here. And I think we've seen unsolved cases when they're solved kind of come out on both sides of the fence. Sometimes ends up being somebody close to the victim that maybe was on the radar, maybe wasn't on the radar. And then I do think a lot of cases just end up being complete strangers to the victim, crimes of opportunity. And that may be the case here as well. We just don't know. If you have information about the murder of Catherine, Katie, Janesse, please call the Atlanta

Police Department Midtown Precinct at 404-546-5977. You can also contact the Atlanta branch of the FBI by calling 777. 216,000, or by submitting a tip to their website, tips.fbi.gov. You can always contact crime stoppers and remain anonymous if you don't care about a reward or credit by calling 404-577 Tips or by visiting crimestoppersatlanta.org. There's a $10,000 reward being offered for information that leads to the identification of the suspect in this case. No doubt, Morp, this is an interesting.

case. And that's almost probably the wrong word to use here. It's sad what happened to Katie Janice. But a lot of people, like I said, are fascinated by the case. They're keeping a watchful eye on information being disseminated, what's going to happen next. Who could it be? And I see why. People want to know in these types of cases, who did it. Now, That need often leads to what we talked about, right? A lot of theories being proposed online, some plausible, some probably you would call far-fetched or just things thrown against the wall. But I think it all comes out of our need to want to see finality.

We want to know what really happened. I think that drives a lot of us. Yeah. And I think every so often, a case comes along that is just so bizarre on the details that we can't help but be interested in it and want to follow along and see it to an end. And I think Katie's case is definitely one of those cases where a lot of people are invested in seeing a resolution and finding out where the truth lies. And hopefully that happens. Thanks goes out to Sunday Landon for help with research and writing in this

episode. As always, if you love the show but haven't done so, take a minute, go out, give us a five-star rating. You can leave a review, but keep telling your friends. That word of mouth about the criminology podcast really helps us out. If you want to find us on social media, we're on Twitter with the handle at Criminology Pod. You can also find us on Facebook by searching for Criminology Podcast or by joining our Facebook discussion group, Criminology Podcast, Discussion and Fans.

To Morp, that is it for another episode of Criminology. but we'll be back with everyone next Saturday night with an all new episode. So until then for Mike and Morph. We'll talk to you next week. Take care, everyone.