Criminology - Kyron Horman

Episode Date: February 11, 2024

On June 4th, 2010, his stepmother, Terri, took Kyron Horman to school. 7-year-old Kyron usually rode the bus, but there was a science fair at school, and he needed help transporting his project. He never made it to class and didn't return home. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the case of Kyron Horman, one that has gripped the true crime world for years now. Witnesses saw Kyron and Terri at the science fair that day, but what happened after that remains a mystery. Much of the suspicion surrounding Kyron's disappearance has fallen on Terri, but she has maintained her innocence. You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology An Emash Digital production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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topics. Listener discretion is advised. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 294 of the criminology podcast. This is Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Mr. Morford. Buddy, how are you doing? I'm doing pretty good.

How are you doing? I'm doing great. You know, it was like 60-some degrees here yesterday. I was happy. I felt better. I got outside a little bit. It's nice. Good.

And I just saw in the weather today. There might have some shaky, cold, nasty weather next week up in the Northeast. So hopefully it lasts for you. Yeah. No, it won't. That's the thing. It'll be 60 and then it'll be 10.

That's just how it goes, man. And for you know, it'll be 90. Yeah. Yeah. With very little in between time. That's the thing I've noticed is I've got. gotten older. The in between time where, you know, hey, let's open the windows. It's like 70. That is a very short window of time. No pun intended. Exactly. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon

shoutouts. We had Michelle Garden and Kevin Twiddle. So some great new support. We really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time. The support show really helps us out. For anyone else that would like to, you can do so by going to patreon.com slash criminology. All right. So it's time to dive right into this week's episode. In our last episode, we covered the Chow Chila kidnappings in which a school bus full of children were kidnapped, but luckily they were recovered. The case made headlines and there was a lot of attention on it. In this episode, we're covering another case of a young victim who went missing, a case that has also received a lot of attention. But unfortunately in this case, there have been

no answers, no resolution. We're talking about the June 2010 disappearance of seven-year-old Kairn Horman. Kyrin Horman was born September 9, 2002 in Portland, Oregon to parents Desiree Young and Kane Horman. Despite Kyran's impending birth, the relationship between Desire and Kane ended, and they divorced in the summer of 2002 when Desiree was eight months pregnant. Despite the breakup, Desiree and Kane tried to stand good terms for Kyrin's sense. take, and for two years they had shared custody of Kyron. In 2004, Desiree was diagnosed with kidney failure and required extensive medical treatment, so much so that she decided it was best for her to give up her custody of Kyron to Kane while she focused on her health. She also gave up custody

of another son she had from a previous relationship. Despite that, she stayed in Kyron's life while she battled her illness. In 2002, while Kane and Desiree were going through their divorce, Kane met a woman named Terry Moulton, and they began dating. They had a lot in common, both having a son. Terry had a son named Jay from a previous relationship. In 2007, Kane and Intel engineer and Terry, a substitute teacher, got married. By December 2008, Terry gave birth to the couple's first child together, a daughter named Kiera. Together, Kane, Terry, Kieran, Jay, and Kira lived in a lot of.

large, secluded home located on Northwest Sheltered Nook Road in Portland. And Kyron attended Skyline Elementary School, which was just about three miles away. In 2010, when Kyron was seven years old, he was a second grader there. On Thursday, June 3rd and Friday, June 4th of that year, Skyline Elementary had a two-day-long science fair. Kyrin was really happy about this fair and had researched tree frogs for his project, and he was excited to tour other students' projects and show off his work to other people. On Thursday, the first day of the fair, Terry drove Chiron to school taking his father's pickup truck.

Kairn's baby sister Kierra was along for the ride. Terry wouldn't normally take Keane's truck. In fact, Kyrin would usually take the bus to school. But the science fair was early in the morning, and driving to school in the truck made it easier to transport Kiron's project. He got it there and into the school without incident. that day he presented it to his fellow schoolmates. So I'm going to ask you the question, Morph, do you remember the science fairs? And did you participate?

Did you make a project? I don't remember so much the science fairs. I mean, we did do little science projects, but they weren't like giant ones. But I do remember I did some kind of project for school that was a, it was like a recreation of some Civil War for it or something. And it was major. And I made it out of Lincoln Logs. and it was, I don't know, it was probably five feet by five feet.

And there was no way to get to school. So we, I don't even remember how we got it there, but it was a chore getting it there. Okay. That doesn't sound like it would have to do with the science fair. But I get you, you think back about, you know, some of the things that we did as kids and the strain that it put on our parents. We didn't think about it back then, right? How are we going to get this five foot by five foot Lincoln Log Fort?

to the school. Well, the parents have to figure that out. As kids, we're just excited. We're just, I want to show off my fort. I do remember, I think one year doing a volcano, one year doing a clock that ran on potatoes, you know, the kind of the standby stuff. Yeah, I do remember hoping that my, my little science experiments like the volcanoes would work when they were supposed to, I'm crossing my fingers as I set it off. Now, I do not remember. my kids doing science fair. So I don't know if that's still a big deal or not. The next day, Friday, June 4th, Terry once again drove Kyra into school in the truck with baby Kira in tow. Her thought was that she'd quickly be bringing the project out to the truck

and taking it home. But her assumption was not correct because that day, all of the students and the families of the students were allowed to come see their projects. Terry and Kyran arrived at the school around 8 a.m. Usually, Skyline didn't open until closer to 8.30 just before the first bell of the morning when classes started at 8.45. But on the two days of the fair, the school was open at 8 a.m. So that friends and family of students could tour the science fair and the school. It was like an end of the year open house. Once at the school, Terry took a picture of Kyron.

He was grinning proudly in front of his science project on the red-eyed tree frog. At about 8.15, school PTA president Gina Zimmerman noticed Terry and Kyron next to his exhibit. Next, Kyron and Terry saw his teacher, Ms. Porter, and told her they were going to look at some of the other children's exhibits. Kyran and Terry with baby Kira walked to the school's library and returned books, probably the ones they needed to prepare for the science project, though this hasn't been verified. They also stopped by the classroom of Mr. Macbeth, who was Kyran's kindergarten and first grade teacher. At 8.45 a.m., the first bell rang. It was time for class to begin.

According to Terry, while still on the first floor of the school, Kairn proposed that he and Terry race up different stairwells to his classroom on the second floor. According to her, when she exited the stairwell, Kairn was already walking towards his classroom. She called out his name, said goodbye, and walked back down the stairs. She left the school on what should have been just another normal day. But it turned out to be anything but. Later that day at 3.30 p.m., Terry, Kane, and Lerner, little care all arrived together at the bus stop to pick Kyron up. But they were informed by the bus

driver that Kyron hadn't boarded the bus home that day. Figuring there was a miscommunication, and Kyron thought he was getting picked up from school since he had been driven. The bus driver called the school's office to inform them that Terry and Kane would be picking him up soon. After walking home from the bus stop and then driving to the school, Terry and Kane learned that Kyran hadn't been in class that day. That's when the panic said it and really set into motion this mystery that still persist after more than a decade. Being told Kyran hadn't made it to class made no sense since Terry had driven Kyron to school

and they had both been inside the building that morning. Kiron's backpack and his jacket were still in the classroom. His absence had been noted by his teacher, Miss Porter, but she didn't find it strange because she was under the assumption he had been taken to a scheduled doctor's appointment that she had been told about. Terry had spoken to Ms. Porter about the appointment because the doctor would need information about how Kyran was doing in school. Terry was given observation forms for Ms. Porter to fill out, which would be picked up and returned to the doctor to help with the assessment. And because of all this, Ms. Porter made the assumption that Kyron was at

disappointment. But unfortunately, the teacher was wrong. After the mix-up and disappearance came to light, everyone sprang into action. At 3.46 p.m., the Skyline Elementary School Secretary, Susan Hall, called 911, and officially reported Kyron missing. She then called Kyron's mom, Desiree Young, to inform her of the situation. Terry and Kane were there while the call was made, speaking to staff and trying to figure out what could have happened. By 5.30 p.m., an alert had been sent out to every parent with a child in the Portland Public Schools District, notifying them that Kyron did not make it home from school. And due to his age, the FBI was immediately alerted.

We talk in a lot of cases how there's stalling and the authorities sometimes brush off or explain away a child's disappearance. But in this case, they really took the disappearance serious right away. But unfortunately, a lot of crucial time had passed since Kyron was last seen when it was realized he was missing. And I do think more, if this is a little bit different than some of the other cases we've done. You know, I think about in certain situations, a child is known to have gotten off of a bus, but they never made it home.

Okay, that is a very short window of time. Or, you know, mom says to be back at six o'clock. They've been gone for, you know, a couple of hours. at the park. Okay, that's a couple of hour window. But here, we're talking about 8 a.m. until school lets out. That's a very big window. And, you know, like you just said, a lot of time went by before everyone kind of sprang into action. And I think as a parent, you want to, you know, assume that once your child's at school or they're on the bus, that they're in good hands and, you know, nothing bad's going to happen to them.

So this had to be a little bit of a shock to say, okay, he was in the school. I left him in the school, but now he's marked absent and they haven't seen him. So that had to be, come as a shock and McCain and Terry very nervous and upset over that. You know, if this happens today at my daughter's school, for example, I'll get an alert saying she's not in one of her classes. And it comes instantly so you could react and try and figure out what's going on a lot sooner than they were able to do in this case. Yeah, technology, man. I know we talk about it a lot, but it really has changed the way that we live in so many different areas. At around 8 p.m., police and school officials began carefully combing school and school grounds looking for

Kyran by 11 p.m. every inch of Skyline school had been searched from top to bottom. The grounds, each classroom, and all crawl spaces were checked. There was no sign of Kyran. At the same time, authorities also thoroughly searched the Horman home, but found no sign of Kairn there either. Volunteers searched throughout the night in the areas around the school property. On Saturday, 300 students and their parents were interviewed by a detective. but nobody had any info that was of use in the investigation. And we just talked about, you know, how much time passed before it was even realized that

Kyran hadn't shown up to class. Well, now we're basically looking at a 12-hour window before the police and school officials really started searching the school. That is a long period of time. And we are talking about it. a seven-year-old kid here. We're not talking about a 15-16-year-old who makes the decision to skip class and go down to the river fishing. Seven-year-old's not going to do that. Most seven-year-olds anyway. And I think that made it clear that this was a very urgent situation due to his eight.

News of Kyran's disappearance shocked parents in the area. It was hard to believe and very frightening that a child could make it safely to school and then vanish once there. For almost a week, the working theory was that Kyran must have wandered off into the woods near the school and gotten lost. Additional search and rescue teams looked for Kyron, who had no coat, food, or water, and hoped they would be able to bring him home safely. Searchers held out to hope because the weather, even without a coat, had been survivable. Sergeant Diana Olson,

Multnomah County Sheriff's Office's search and rescue operations coordinator, told Oregon live, it's warm even at night. If he fell and injured himself, the expectation is he would still be alive. And isn't it interesting how the timing of a disappearance changes things, right? If Kyran goes missing in January with no coat, well, then things are much different because he's going to be out in the elements. His chance of survival would be, far less than it would be later on in the year when the weather is warm.

And probably the other side of the coin, if he went missing, say, in late August, early September, it might be the other end very hot and humid, and that could also be bad for him. Some people in the public began to suspect that Kyran's family may know more than what they were saying. They hadn't spoken out or made any kind of statement, and many people found that odd. According to Oregon Live, FBI spokeswoman Beth Ann Steele had to comment that the Hornman family was not speaking to the media because they do not believe it's in the best interest of finding Kyron. Shortly after this, a statement written by Kairn's family was released, thanking the community for their support and asking people to continue searching their properties, vehicles, and outbuildings. And I don't know what you make of that more. I found it a little strange.

Again, we often talk about how, you know, people or families react differently. Not everyone is going to handle the same situation or a similar situation the same way. But to make that statement that they didn't believe it was in the best interest of finding Kyrin, I found that a little odd. I'll be honest with you because I get that. that everybody's not comfortable talking to the media, but wouldn't you want to put it out there, make a plea not only for Kyran's safe return in case someone has him, but also for volunteers? You know, you want as many people on your side as you can get. So I did find it a little

lot. Yeah, I do too. And, you know, I don't know what I do in that situation. I, I, I, I would think, I would talk to police and consult with them and say, what should we do here? Should we do a press conference or not? You know, so I don't know if they talk with them at all and decided that or if they just flat out said, you know, we don't think it's in the best interest. But there must have been some pushback or some regret and they decided to put out this statement as a family. On June 11th, Kyron's family spoke for the first time publicly at a press conference.

his stepfather Tony Young spoke first on behalf of everyone. Tony was used to the subject matter because he was a detective. But you can still tell that this hit too close to home. And it was a very difficult task. He addressed Kyron directly, assuring him, we're doing everything we can to work with law enforcement and the search and rescue crews to make sure that you can get back to us as soon as possible. This was meant to be something Kairn could look back on and be inspired by when he was back safe at home.

His whole community coming together and working as a team to find him. And it really seems that this was the whole community. On June 12th, the day after the press conference, the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office asked the public to stop donating food, water, and other items to volunteer searches due to the sheer volume. of supplies received at that point. And that is something else. I mean, you think about how rare it is that so many donations would come in that you basically have to beg people to stop because you're out of room and you can't see consuming all the supplies in the foreseeable future. But it was evidence of just how much the community wanted to help. You would think normally you're constantly asking for people's help.

And here you're saying, we got too much. Please stop. And I think in cases like this, you see people that are volunteering to supply printing of flyers and other people might have dogs that they're willing to give out for searches. It seems like a lot of people really come out of the woodwork and try and do what they can to help. And my thought has always been, you know, when you're talking about young children, we're talking about a seven-year-old here, it increases the likelihood. that people are going to want to help.

Not that, you know, a missing 16, 17 year old isn't very important. I just think people, you know, would look at a seven-year-old boy as helpless. You know, seven-year-olds, by and large... In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency? We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, Blood and Water.

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Learn why at hex.aI. Large can't take care of themselves. Shouldn't be anywhere by themselves. So I think a lot of people, parents especially, would look at that and say, boy, if I was in that spot, I would want everyone to come out to aid me. So, you know, I'm going to do the same. And I think you're exactly right. I have a seven-year-old son myself and I couldn't imagine him being out wherever, just on his own and not knowing what was going on. I'd want everyone out there. I'd be trying to get the whole community out there. So it is odd to see them have to turn away

help at some point. And the other thing that really hit me was, you know, Tony, young who was a detective in making this address and it being very hard for him. You know, I'm sure as a detective he had seen a lot, he had done a lot, but when it's your own family, that makes it different. There's just no way around it. On June 13th, it was announced that the search for Chiron had turned into a criminal investigation. It's not clear what exactly prompted the shift into a criminal investigation, but by the next day, divers searched the waters off of Salvi Island. Nothing was found. June 15th was the final day of the school year for Skyline Elementary.

There was a vigil that night at Sunset Presbyterian Church. On June 18th, a new informational fire was released by the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. Along with Kyran's information, there was a picture of Terry, as well as a description of a truck similar to Keynes. this seemed to shift the perception of the case in the public eye. Tips began to come in, and multiple people claimed to have seen Kyran leaving the school with Terry the morning he vanished, or to have seen her truck in multiple different locations at once. Though it was impossible for her truck to have been in all of those places at the same time, all eyes seemed to turn to Terry.

Remember, Terry was the last person claiming to have seen Kyran when he was supposedly racing her up the steps. and then she claimed to have seen him walking to his classroom. As the last person known to have seen him and documented in that final photo she took of him, she became a person of interest in the eyes of many people as well as the police. In many of the cases we've seen in the past, some step-parents are resentful about having to take care of someone else's child and receiving no extra thanks for doing so. most recently, Letitia Stock comes to mind.

We discussed the murder of her stepchild, Gannon's stock, last year. Letitia had Googled things as if she were talking to a friend, airing out her frustrations with parenting and being overlooked while caring for someone else's child. She grew more and more angry with Gannon's father, Al, until one day she took it out on Gannon. Some people have thought that if Terry has, had been tired of what she found to be a thankless job, she wouldn't have been the first one. Letitia and Al had only been married for five years, and his job in the military kept him away from home for long stretches at a time, leaving Letitia to care for Gannon and his younger

sister alone. But even in this comparison, this situation with Terry is a bit different. Because according to many who knew Terry, she seemed to genuinely want to take care of. She seemed to genuinely want to take care of Kyran, even though he wasn't her biological son. And my thought morph is that the Letitia case, the Gannon stock case, is the exception. You know, my parents divorced when I was fairly young. I had a stepmother. I had a stepfather. They both took care of me and treated me as if I was their own. And I think by and large, that's the way it plays out, but obviously not in every case. And to that point, Terry was reportedly very involved with Kyron's life. It seemed that she treated him no differently than her own biological son Jay.

The Science Fair project on the red-eyed tree frog was something Terry and Kyron had worked on together. Carol Moulton, Terry's mother, told Oregon Live of their relationship, she's been with him since he was an infant. She's as much of a mom as the mom is because the parents had separated about the time that Kyron was born. Terry used to teach elementary school, but after Kiera was born, she dedicated all of her time to caring for her own children,

including Kiron instead. But despite what Terry's mom said about her daughter's relationship with Kiron, Kieran's mom, Desireen, and her husband, Tony, painted a very different picture of the relationship between Terry and Kiron. According to KGW.com, Desiree said, I think it was very planned, and she points to changes in Kiron's personality

shortly before he went missing. And we talked in the beginning, more of about Desiree. She was very ill. And making that decision to give up custody of Chiron, that must have been a very difficult one. But as we said, she felt that it would be in his best interest

since she was battling her illness. But she did eventually regain her health. And while Desire hadn't petitioned for full custody of Kyran since regaining her health, she did have visitations every few weeks. Before his disappearance, Kyran had stopped wanting those visits to end. And according to Desiree, he wanted to stay with her. She told KGW, Kyran became increasingly unhappy about not spending time with me. He wanted to come and live with us.

Several times, he would just break down and just sob because he wanted to stay. According to Desiree, after school on June 4th, the day he went missing, Terry was supposed to drive Kyran to Medford, Oregon for his scheduled visit with Desiree. Some people have wondered if Terry was responsible for Kyran's disappearance. Could this scheduled visit have been what made Terry act so suddenly? Did she need to prevent him from speaking with Desiree for whatever reason? and if he made it home from school that day, it would have been too late. Desire told KTVL.com, I believe that she did something that day.

She still hasn't revealed all of the true things that happened on June 4th. For her part, Terry pushed back on Desire's suspicions. She told News Nation now, I was willing to talk about anything. I want him home. Apparently, Terry volunteered for two separate polygraph examination, and reportedly failed both. She walked out of a third polygraph. And we've discussed, you know, lie detector tests,

polygraph examinations over and over. There is a reason why they're not admissible in most courts, most jurisdictions, but it doesn't stop police from using them. I mean, they still use them as a tool in many places. So what do you make? of, you know, Terry reportedly failing to and walking out on a third. I think it definitely looks suspicious to some people because some people do put a lot of stock

in lie detector test. But you could also look at it from Terry's perspective. If she was involved, why would she voluntarily take a test knowing she could fail? And it turns out she did, you know, unless she thought she was somehow going to fool it, you know, who knows. but you know, you could argue both sides of the polygraph point. Yeah, you absolutely could. You could make the argument that someone who knew they had done something

decides to take the polygraph because they're hoping to divert suspicion and they feel as though maybe they can trick it. Or you can make the point that a person has nothing to hide, but they're so nervous, and somehow that causes them to fail the polygraph. One thing that both Kyrin's mom, Desiree, and his father, Kane, both found suspicious, was that Terry supposedly lied about the classroom she last saw him near, but it turned out there was a mix-up about his classroom number, and not necessarily that Terry lied about it.

Despite the suspicion that fell on Terry, other people defended her, and to them it seemed like Terry was very willingly involved in Kiron's life, and to secretly resent him enough to harm him and cover it up, it didn't make sense. Terry is a suspect because she is supposedly the last person to see Kyron and because she has no alibi for that morning. However, she left to school right after the first bell. And according to her, Kyron was headed for his classroom. She then took baby Kiera to the Fred Meyer grocery store on Embry Drive

to pick up medication for her ear infection. This ear infection is a suspicious part of the story to many who wonder why a mother wouldn't take their sick child to the doctor. However, Kiera had been to the doctor already and they just needed to pick up her prescription. That Fred Meyer location apparently didn't have the medication, so Terry drove to one which had it in stock on Walker Road. While shopping, she ran into a friend from her gym. This was between 9.30 and 10 a.m. After picking up the medication, she went to the dry cleaners in the same shopping center and dropped off Kane's clothing. She then went to Michaels for craft supplies and drove a fussy care around the rural area.

By 11.40am, she and Kara were the 24-hour fitness she frequented. Terry dropped Kara off at the gym daycare and got in a quick workout before picking her back up and socializing with staff and her gym friends. By 12.40 p.m., she was home. At 1.21 p.m., Terry posted the photo. she took of Kyrin that morning to her Facebook page. Many people take this as a sign of her guilt, thinking she must have posted the picture first as an alibi, and second to make it look like she cared about Kairn.

But Terry uploaded multiple pictures at once, a photo dump, if you will, and the Science Fair picture was just one of them. There were many pictures of Kiron on her Facebook page. So I think it's natural for people that are close to somebody that goes missing to be looked at. you know, we know from the investigations that when there's foul play, a missing person, someone's killed, that kind of thing. Police look at those closest to them and work out from there and rule those people out if they can first.

And to me, it looks like Terry really had a normal day this day. And it's hard for me to fathom that if she did something to him somehow, that she would just go to the craft store and go to the gym and have a workout and as if nothing sinister had happened that day. It's kind of hard to picture that happening. Now, we know there are some people that, you know, have done that. Maybe Scott Peterson, you know, with Lacey Peterson sort of had a checklist of things he did on the day. She vanished and was reportedly killed. So, you know, it could be just trying to set this alibi, but at the same time, it's hard to fathom somebody could just go on about their day and have a nice workout and go shopping after doing something to a little boy.

Well, and the other one that comes to mind is candy. Supposedly, she went out to lunch with friends, you know, after hacking her neighbor to death with an axe. So it seems as though everybody's a little different, which we know that to be the case. But it's also natural to take a look at the last person known to have seen the victim or the missing person alive. That's absolutely normal. And the other thing that seems to be normal is for people to kind of pick that person's life or day or actions apart, right? What is the posting of this photo mean to her Facebook page? Well, like you said, many people see it as a sign of guilt.

Many people think it was establishing an alibi. But what does it really mean? Yeah, had she done that on a day when he didn't go missing, it would just be another person on Facebook posting picks of their kids. Suspicion continued to hang over Terry. And then there was a major development that made her look even worse in the eyes of many on June 26th. Last than three weeks after Kyron vanished, police were called to the Horman home twice. At 5.17 p.m., officers responded to a 911 call regarding a 8.1-1 call regarding a. threat. Terry called the police after her landscaper, and what turned out to be an undercover officer approached her. The landscaper demanded $10,000 as payment for his silence, threatening to tell

authorities that she had tried to hire him to kill her husband, Kane. She ordered them to leave and immediately called 911. This conversation was recorded by a wire the landscaper was wearing. Later that night at 1139, a second 911 call was placed. Terry was frantic. Kane had left the home with Kiera, who was now just 19 months old. The reason he left was because earlier that day, detectives had informed Kane of an attempt by Terry to hire a hitman to kill him. According to police, Terry had tried to hire the landscaper to kill Kane less than a year before Kairn's disappearance. like most people would probably do if you found out that your spouse wanted you dead Kane feared for his life and with his son Kyron missing.

He also feared for Kiera's life and wanted to get himself and her out of danger. And this is such a strange part of this case for me, Morph, because you know, you have this landscaper who obviously went to the police because at some point they sent an undercover officer out to approach. Terry with the landscaper, you have this recorded conversation and it rose to the level where police actually told Kane that Terry tried to hire a hitman, but then it was like

nothing else happened after it. She wasn't charged. There's really just not much else out there about it. Yeah, we just mentioned this was a major development because it was ultimately caused Kane to leave her out of fear for his safety. And you can't blame him. But at the same time, if there was something to this, why was she never charged with this? So this is sort of a sticking point, a question mark that's still sort of hanging out there in this case.

And my only thought is that they just didn't feel as though they had enough evidence, like just the word of this landscaper, wasn't going to be enough maybe to actually charge her and secure a conviction. Because other than that, I don't know what else would have been the reason. And I also find it odd that Terry didn't talk with him about it, own up to it or anything. She instead called 911. So almost as if she was saying,

hey, there's a crazy guy here talking about me trying to hire a hitman. I'm calling the police. So, you know, you could maybe make an argument that she was taking a back to, by this and, you know, felt she was in danger and called the police. Well, you could also make an argument that this landscaper was trying to extort her for money.

I mean, there are a lot of arguments that can be made. A joint statement from Kyran's parents, Kane and Desire, and Desiree's husband, Tony, was released on June 28th, claiming that they were cooperating with the police investigation. Terry's name wasn't included in the statement. Shortly after, news broke that Terry had been served with a restraining order. and a petition for divorce by Kane. Terry soon retains Stephen Howes, a prominent criminal defense attorney in Portland. Soon after this, Terry began to send flirtatious and sexual messages to Michael Cook, one of Kane's friends from high school. The contents of these messages were later

released in court. Kane claimed that contacting his friend Michael Cook violated the restraining order he had against her. The messages didn't help her look innocent to the public, who felt that sex would be the last thing on her mind if she were truly worried about Kairn being missing and her marriage collapsing. In mid-July, Terry moved out of the Horman home and into a property owned by her parents in Roseburg, Oregon. And here's something that, you know, I see in a lot of cases. You know, when it comes to the public and the public's opinion as to whether someone had a role in, you know, a disappearance or a murder, pretty much everything that person does.

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Learn why at hex.a.I. And be made to look suspicious. Now, again, you break some of this stuff down and it does look suspicious, but in some cases, people can make it that way even when it doesn't look like it. You know, the flirtatious sexual messages, thinking about, sex as your marriage is collapsing, let alone during this point where Kyran is missing. Okay. Can you see why people would look at that and say, what are you doing? There's the possible hiring of a hitman. You know, my thought is always that if you're in the public's crosshairs, wouldn't you go out of

your way to not only not bring attention to yourself, but not do anything that we're in the public's crosshairs, wouldn't you go out of your way to, not only not do anything that would make you in people's eyes further look guilty. That seems like a lot of these things that she did definitely made her look guilty to a lot of people. Some people became suspicious of Terry's friend. A woman named D.D. Spicer. Authority searched her home into a Latin and interviewed those who knew her about her whereabouts on June 4th, the day Kairn vanished.

They learned that Didi had been. unaccounted for. From around 11.30 a.m. on June 4th until 1 p.m. She had been doing landscaping work for a property in northwest Portland and the homeowner invited her to have lunch. She didn't show up. And when they called herself a phone, she didn't answer. In August, authority searched an area near the 2.2 mile northwest old Germantown Road loop close to the home D.D. was working at on June 4th. The property, was almost 40 acres, and D.D. claims to have left her phone in her car at the other end of the yard while working so she wasn't available to answer the call. Since she was alone on the property,

the reports that she left abruptly or disappeared aren't exactly true, but you can't prove that they're false either. Bruce McCain, a retired captain with the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, told ABC News. The irony here, of course, is that, that no one is able to corroborate her story. Dedey insisted that she had nothing to do with Kairn's disappearance, but that investigators were trying to use her to get to Terry. She told ABC News. They wanted me to tell them that Terry did it or that Terry knew something.

Dedy, who believed Terry was innocent, cooperated with the investigation, but didn't have any relevant information. In that same ABC News interview, she said, I told them everything that I knew over and over again, but I didn't tell them what they wanted to hear. Captain McCain explained that Dede's behavior was suspicious. Before she had to testify before a grand jury, she hired a lawyer.

McCain told ABC News, she said she's fully cooperating, but there's mixed signals here. She's the only witness that we know of that's lawyered up, adding, for someone that's got nothing to hide and is fully cooperative, that's a strange way to show it. And I know that police detectives, investigators, often have that opinion. But I don't know if that's one that I share. You know, to me, and I think I've said it before, but the hiring of an attorney sometimes is just a good idea. And it doesn't necessarily mean that someone's guilty or has something to hide. And that might be especially true if you get the vibe that the police think you're involved in some manner and not just, you know, you're not just a witness to like a car accident or something.

You know, they're talking to you about a crime, a serious crime and a missing child. And if you get the vibe that you think you had something to do with it, then maybe it's smart to hire an attorney. Despite the suspicion of the public and detectives, D.D. still felt that Terry had no involvement in Kieran's disappearance. She detailed the ABC News in all of these years. As her friend, I'm not seen anything that would lead me to believe that she's capable or motivated in any way to do something like this. She tried to make it clear that she wasn't supporting Terry because they were co-conspirators. It was because she wanted to help a friend in a very hard time.

Her actions were all because she believed in Terry's innocence, not because she had knowledge of her guilt. She said to ABC News, there's this horror. that my friend is going through, if I thought for a second that she was capable of foul play, I would not have been there. She would not have been my friend in the first place. According to Oregon Live, other people besides Kairn's family. And those that suspected Terry felt the same as D.D. The Shangri-La Corporation, a non-profit Terry worked for after Kairn's disappearance, but left due to the public scrutiny, she caused them, said that Terry showed compassion to people with special needs.

So let's talk about D.D. for a little bit. You know, obviously, she caught the attention of the authorities. You know, they not only interviewed her, they searched her home. Now, we don't have all the details, but you have this kind of period of time where her whereabouts are unaccounted for. and to be honest with you, I don't know what that mean. Okay, she doesn't show up for this lunch. That's one thing.

She's working alone. Again, it's kind of hard to say what that means. I mean, she's landscaping. So, and I think you see this in some cases where you don't have an alibi, but there's no way for you to have an alibi. I mean, if you really truly were by yourself and there's no way to really, really prove your location or how long you were there. What do you do?

It really seems like she was suspected because she was friends with Terry and because she had this little bit of missing time that day. That seems to be really the case against her. They didn't find anything when they did these searches. If you look at her time that day compared to Terry's, you know, Terry has this checklist of various things she did that day and has a timeline and where Didi here is working and misses this one little spot during the day. You could argue that maybe she was just wrapped up in her work and wanted to get it done,

whatever, and was away from her phone and couldn't answer, but that's come under a lot of suspicion. But I come back to why would she be involved in this? What's the benefit to her to go along with a crime like this and help cover it up? That's one thing I don't think has been put out there by a lot of people that talk about this case. It seems like there's no benefit unless, you know, something behind the scenes. You could say maybe there was a secret payment, but there would have to be some motive because I don't think most friends are going to when a friend comes to them and says,

hey, something happened, help me get rid of this boy's body. Or a step further, being involved beforehand, I just don't see any scenario where most friends are going to cooperate and be part of that. But as we know, sometimes crazy things do happen and there's not that waste of reason that says, hey, this isn't a good idea. Well, at the very least, more if it seems to me that the case against Dedi is very thin. They just didn't have anything. And obviously, she was never charged or anything like that.

On September 9th, Kyran's eighth birthday passed with no signs of him and no clues. The investigation, the largest and most expensive search in Oregon's history, had cost over a million dollars by then, and with no leads, a small task force was created to free up other detectives to work on different cases. According to Oregon Live, in October, when Terry petitioned for visitation with her daughter, Kane was upset, saying Terry was an emotionally disturbed individual focused on her own needs, rather than the needs of care, or my missing Kairn. By November, she had withdrawn her petition to visit with Kira.

Media stopped reporting on the custody case, but by the time Kira was for, Terry was still not allowed to have any contact with her. In June 2011, the task force worked in Kairan's case disbanded, and a single detective continued to investigate Kairn's disappearance. Terry petitioned for a name change to drop Horman as her last name, but due to the ongoing criminal investigation, it was denied. During these hearings, she spoke about Kairn in court for the first. time in years. She told the judge, he needs to be found. I love my son. I want him home more than anything. In 2012, Desiree Young filed a civil lawsuit against Terry claiming that she had kidnapped Kyrin. She saw not only $10 million in damages, but also either the location of Kiron or his safe return. She ended up dropping the lawsuit, but not her suspicions. By December 2000,

It became official. Terry Moulton and Kane Horman were divorced. Despite no charges being filed against Terry for anything regarding Kairn's case, she has gotten into other trouble. In August 2015, Terry's roommate in Yuba County, California, reported that his gun had been stolen from his safe. He accused Terry of the theft. When officers found her, she did have his gun with her. She was arrested and charged with the misdemeanor. In November, she was a no-show for arraignment on that gun theft charge, bringing her another charge for failure to appear.

A bench warrant was ordered for arrest. On July 3rd, 2016, she was pulled over in Sacramento for speeding. Once her identity was checked, the warrant was flagged, and she was arrested. Things didn't get any better for Terry because in early December 2016, she was arrested after her partner, Joseph Christopal, accused her of domestic violence. According to Christobal, Terry threatened him and his family as she put a knife up to his face. After this arrest, he filed a restraining order against Terry. Christabal told KGW News, I don't even know what she's capable of. She was arrested yet again on December 24, 2016, after allegedly taking a car without the owner's permission.

The Marin County District Attorney's Office dropped the charges. after they decided the case was not strong enough to take to trial. All of these brushes with the law for Terry only fueled the suspicions of Kyran's mom, Desiret. She told KTVL, everything that's been happening is just what we already know about her true nature and that she's a criminal. In June 2017, Terry was found not guilty of grand theft of a firearm related to her roommate's accusation in 2015. In March 2018, Terry remarried to a man named Jose de Jesus Vasquez Martinez. Today, Terry is still a person of interest in the eyes of police and in the eyes of

Kyrin's family. And I would add, in the eyes of many people in the public as well. So it seems to me more if that, you know, her life has not gone maybe all that well in the wake of Kyron's disappearance. You know, she was married to Kane. She was a stay at home mom. She was able to go work out. Seems like, you know, she had a pretty good life. Again, we don't know the details of the relationship. Nobody really does on the outside. But it really does seem that. And, you know, after Kyran's disappearance, things began to spiral, the marriage to the point where, you know, Kane took out a restraining order. You've got these sexualized messages to one of his friends.

And then, you know, she's with a number of guys after that, one of which takes out a restraining order against her. There's, there was just a lot going on. Now, some people would, say where there's smoke, there's fire, but I don't know, you know, if that's true here or not. Yeah, it definitely seems that in the time since Kyron went missing, things have definitely gone downhill for her. But in the time before you went missing, she had been a substitute teacher. She was a mom that, by all accounts, took care of the kids. As far as we can tell, she had no criminal record. Now, of course, there is this whole landscaper's accusation that we We can't really get to the bottom of.

That supposedly happened where she allegedly offered to hire him to knock off Kane. That supposedly happened before Kyrant went missing. So that could show a pattern if it's proven to be true that she did have some sinister aspects to her going back before Kaira went missing. The one thing I will say is that there is a lot of mystery around this woman. I will say that. So I think we have to ask how strong is the potential case against Terry? Are there things for or against her being involved? I think we should go back to the day Kyron vanished and look closely at the timeline.

It was well documented and witnessed by several people that Kyron did arrive at school that day and was in and around the science fair. This was all before 9 a.m. Kyrin wasn't marked absent until around 10 a.m. And this was after his class had gotten back from visiting the exhibits. But according to witnesses, those being kind of, Kyrin's schoolmates. Terry wasn't the last person to see Kairn that day, because his fellow students reported seeing him, talking to people after Terry left. According to these eyewitness accounts,

multiple students saw him around 9 a.m. and after. So he couldn't have disappeared before 9 a.m. It had to be between 9 and 10. While witnesses did say they saw both Terry and Kieran together, and they also saw Kane's truck at the school, could any of these witnesses have remembered seeing Kyran and Terry at the times they thought they saw them, but got their days mixed up, because Terry had taken him to school both Thursday and Friday. The photo Terry took of Kyron that Friday included a schoolmate of his who was edited out of public releases of that photo. The student confirmed that the photo was taken Friday.

So there's no doubt at all that Terry brought Kyron to school on Friday and arrived there. What may still be up for debate was whether people saw Kyron after he made it to school on Friday, and Terry left like she claimed, or could that. they be mixing up seeing him in class after she left him the day before on Thursday? Either way, the photo taken of Kyron on Friday, alongside his fellow student, stands as the last confirmed sighting of Kairn. Whatever happened after the photo was taken remains a mystery. I also think it's important to look at what was happening overall. At Skyline, the day Kyron vanished. It was a very

busy day and none of the school was locked down nor a schreiber a parent and volunteer at skyline school told organ live on a normal day seeing a stranger will make you go hmm i wonder who that is on such a hectic day as friday there was such a lot going on to tell you the truth i was focused on looking at the science project and helping my son fill out his evaluation for him and not on the faces around me. The children toured the science fair with volunteer chaperones, making it even easier for a child to disappear or to mistake a stranger as a volunteer. There is a photo of Kyrin's class on Terry's Facebook page, but Kyrin is not in it. The caption joked about his habit of leaving the class without telling anyone and ending up in the bathroom for long periods of time.

This suggests that slipping out of class silently was a habit of Chiron's, possibly something that would have been addressed at that upcoming doctor's visit. It's important to note that one of the last people claiming to actually see Chiron while touring the science fair saw him near one of those unlocked and unmonitored exits that was close to the nearby woods. There are a few possibilities here. It was a hectic day. People were coming and going. and more adults than usual were at the school, the day Kyran vanished. Can we be certain that Kyron didn't wander outside and get lost, or that the wrong person didn't catch his attention and lure him outside? Whatever happened that day to Kyron Horman, to this day, remains a mystery. But most of the suspicion continues to fall on his stepmother, Terry.

And I do think that this science fair is big in this case, because you think about a normal day in an elementary school, There's the teachers, the students, probably not a lot of parents, not a lot of other adults. But here it sounds like, you know, everybody was welcome and none of the doors were locked. It does open up a number of possibilities. Yeah, when you've got a bunch of people shuffling around and coming and going, you're not really going to ask questions about who they are because you're just expecting or they're there. as part of this event that's going on. So it certainly opens up the possibility

that a dangerous person could slip in and maybe slip out with a child and maybe the things surrounding Terry are sort of just a red herring and something else happened to Kairn. The protocols at all Portland public schools changed after Kairn's disappearance. To start, the side doors of the school

were all locked during school hours, requiring anyone that entered the building to use the main office entrance that was monitored by staff. All visitors would be required to sign in and receive a color-coded pass, green for volunteers, who had passed background checks, and yellow for any other visitor. Attendance would be taken twice each day, first in the morning, and then a second time after lunch. Surveillance cameras were installed inside and outside all elevators. elementary schools, as high schools were rebuilt or refurbished, they also received cameras. For kindergarten through fifth grade, a 10.30 a.m. call would go out to parents of absent

students, warning them that their child was absent. A lot of schools across the country have adopted many of these security measures, especially in the wake of school shootings. And if these measures were in place when Kairn vanished. The mystery may be solved. by now, or perhaps even, Kyron might not have vanished in the first place. Of these new security tools, Kane-Horman told KGW News. I think they've made some big adjustments,

and it was a safe school before. And now it's probably going to be one of the safest schools in the state. And I absolutely remember, you know, my kids being in elementary school, and that was probably around this same time. It was a very locked down situation. You couldn't even enter the building unless you were buzzed in.

And then that even only let you into the kind of office area. There was another locked door that you had to be buzzed into to actually get inside the school. And I think different school systems and different states probably upgraded their security measures at different intervals, so they probably weren't all universal. But, you know, today, it seems like just about every school has these serious safety protocols in place, which is obviously a good thing. But even outside of the school, you know, it seems like today every person has a ring door camera, every street light has some kind of camera in it. So if those things were in place back then as well, people coming and going into the parking lot, Terry's vehicle,

all of those things could have been probably caught on camera and additional clues could have been gathered. Yeah, absolutely. Although Terry is someone close to Chiron that's suspected in his disappearance, she's not the only person in the family that has been put forward as a suspect. In June 2010, 32-year-old Christian Scott Horman, Kyran's paternal uncle, was convicted of third-degree child molestation in Snohomish County. Immediately, some people wondered whether he could have been involved in Kyran's disappearance. But according to the Horman family's attorney, Donna Johnston, he was in Seattle on June 4, 2010.

It's not clear if this alibi was verified by investigators in Kairn's case. Kieran Horman would have graduated high school, and by now, he could have been in his last year of college. There's still a $50,000 reward for information that leads to the resolution of the case. you can call in tips to the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office non-emergency line at 503, 8233333. Or you can contact the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children Tip Line at 1-800-the-Lost. So more as we wrap up this case, it continues to be one that grabs people's attention. I mean, you still see people online. talking about this case, going back and forth about Terry and her possible involvement.

And I don't know if that's going to end until there's a resolution. You know, with her being the last person kind of thought to have been with Kyran, there's some debate there. But obviously that does make a lot of people suspicious. and then you have kind of what transpired over the years in her life, the downward spiral, the whole alleged hitman landscaper thing. You can see why there are a lot of people who think that she was possibly involved. Yeah, we mentioned it earlier that police always look at people that are closest to a missing person because most often they're the ones that all.

ultimately are responsible for what happened. But in this case, as far as we know, unless the police are holding something back, there's no solid evidence linking Terry to this case. And if, if there is resolution in this case and it turns out that Terry had no involvement, does she, she get that time back and all the things that have happened in that downward spiral since Kyron went missing? That would be really tough for her. Well, that's the thing, right? You don't get that back. So she's been walking around all these years with this cloud of suspicion hanging over her. If she had some involvement, then it was well deserved. But like you said, if she didn't, then that's tough. Because there's no doubt this event changed the course of her life. Now,

it also changed the course of a lot of people's lives in Kieran's family. Let's not forget that. But this is one that I know so many people want resolution on. They want to know what really happened. And I'll say this. If she did have some involvement to this point, she's gotten away with the perfect crime that seems because despite all of those witnesses, all the people that were there that they that could have seen her, you know, that could have seen her walking out with him if she walked out with him. You know, she took a chance if she was involved with all of that.

And the fact, none of that happened, you know, I think it opens with the possibility that maybe she wasn't involved. As far as we know publicly, there's no evidence that ties her to his going missing. Yeah, the police could have some that they haven't disclosed. The one thing that we do know is it is not enough evidence, in their eyes, if they have any, to bring charges, right, to take her to trial.

So let's talk about the most likely options if Terry was not involved. And really, for me, there's kind of two that stand out. You know, could Kyran have walked out of one of those unlocked doors and headed out into the woods and then ultimately died? my thought there is that you would think with the amount of searching that was done now how far could a seven-year-old get on his own you would think that they would have found something during those searches so then you go to what i believe is probably the second most likely scenario again if terry is not involved which is someone who was at the school that day was able to take Kyran during the hectic period of time that was caused by this science pair. Yeah, and it could have been a predator that snuck in there and told Kyron, you know, I need help carrying in my son's science experiment.

Can you give me a hand? Or maybe I just talked to your mom in the parking lot and she told me to come out. She has something else for you. And then could have been lowered out. And that's the thing. We just don't have any real strong alternate suspects to look at. so all this attention has really gone to Terry. But that's why it is and will remain a very mysterious case until there is some type of

resolution. That's it for our episode on Kyron Horman. If you love the show, but haven't done so yet, take a minute, go out, leave us a five-star rating. You can also leave a review, but continue to tell your friends about the criminology podcast. That word of mouth really helps us. us out. If you want to find us on social media, we're on X with the handle at Criminology Pod. You can also find us on Facebook at Facebook.com slash criminology podcast. And you can join

our Facebook discussion group, criminology podcast, discussion and fans. So that's it for another episode of Criminology. But Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then, for Mike and Morph. We'll talk to you next week. Take care of everyone. At Giant Eagle, you may have spotted The Stacker. With uncanny MyPerks ability, she stacks up the perks to choose either dollars off or up to 20% off her entire grocery bill. The Stacker, stacking up huge savings with MyPerks. Find your MyPerksality and transform your shopping into free gas and groceries.

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