Criminology - Leslie Preer and Christine Franke

Episode Date: October 27, 2024

On May 2nd, 2001, 50-year-old wife and mother Leslie Preer didn't show up to work. She was found dead in her Chevy Chase, Maryland home. One October 21st, 2001, 25-year-old Christine Franke was found dead inside her apartment in Orlando, Florida. Both cases would go unsolved for decades. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the cases of Leslie Preer and Christine Franke. Two unrelated murder cases that languished for years with no resolution. But, advancements in DNA technology, and more specifically, genetic genealogy was used to solve them both. The killers of Leslie and Christine were eventually revealed, and Leslie's family was shocked by who her killer turned about to be.  You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology   An Emash Digital production  

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This is Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Mr. Morford, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing pretty good. This week has been pretty odd and ventful compared to my last several weeks, so I'm not complaining. How are you doing? I'm doing good. Had a good week.

and you and I are taping towards the end of it, but I don't think it'll go bad, you know, in the last couple days. So, uh, yeah, good week. Yeah, you got to take the good weeks when you get them. Yeah, absolutely. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Anna Forsyth, Carol Musa Mechi and Mary Dee. So that's a lot of great new support. We really appreciate it.

Thank you to everyone that takes the time to support the show. It means a lot to us for anyone else that would like to. you can do so by going to patreon.com slash criminology. All right. We're wasting no time. We're getting right into this episode. And this week, we're not just talking about one case, but rather two unrelated murders from 2001 that baffled investigators for many years

until they were able to use genetic genealogy to reanalyze old evidence from the cases. We're discussing the murders of Leslie Prier and Christine Frankie. On May 2nd, 2001, Leslie Prueter didn't show up for work. At the time, the 50-year-old mother was living with her husband in a cute two-story brick house on Drummond Avenue and Chevy Chase, Maryland that they moved into in 1982. It was normal for her to take public transportation to commute, but she was always on time for a shift that specialties incorporated,

the advertising production firm where she worked. She was due to start at 10 a.m. But that day, she didn't show up, and there was no work. from her. After realizing that she wasn't just running a little bit late, her employer, Brett Reedy, started calling her family members to see if everything was okay and if she'd be coming in. Leslie's husband, Carl Prier, was at work. He hadn't seen her since 7.45 that morning when he said goodbye to her as he was leaving for work, her 23-year-old daughter, Lauren, who didn't live with her parents at the time, didn't know where her mom was either. And she hadn't heard from her.

It was unusual on Leslie's part, and they all started to worry about her. Leslie had to walk to her bus stop, and something could have happened to her on the way there, even while she was on the bus. Carl headed home from work, and Brett Reedy also rushed over to try to check on Leslie. Carl and Brad arrived there at the same time and slowly made their way inside. As soon as they entered the house, they knew something was wrong. So we have a scenario here, morph, that we do see a lot in many of our cases. You have someone who is responsible, is known to show up to work on time, is never late.

All of a sudden, their normal routine is broken. And those around them, family members, in this case, even her employer, start to worry. what we've seen some of, but, you know, I've never experienced myself, is an employer actually being so worried that they go to an employee's house to check on them. I mean, I've managed a lot of people over the years. And never once have I gone to an employee's house if they didn't call in. And maybe this was a small operation. I have no idea. Maybe they were pretty close, but, you know, that, although it does happen in my world is,

is not the norm. Yeah, I think that just shows how reliable Leslie was and the, you know, she wasn't the type of person that was late all the time or just took off without calling in. When she was missing, it stood out enough that they wanted to go check on her. And I think the other thing that you have here is, you know, Leslie's husband and her daughter. Well, they don't know where she is. Why would they? Right? When everybody kind of leaves the house in the morning. And granted, her daughter, Lauren, didn't live with them at the time. But, you know, that's normally the last time that you see people. And everybody's headed off, either to school or to work

or wherever they're going. There's not always kind of a check-in. Most people just assume that, you know, their spouse or whoever it is made it to where they were going that morning. Maybe they're going to talk later on in the day. So, you know, a big shock, I'm sure for Carl to find out that Leslie didn't show up for work. Yeah, and this was 2001. So there were cell phones, although I don't know if Leslie had one, but there definitely wasn't the, you know, the very common apps and things that you could use to track someone, social media, different ways to try and see where they were at.

At 11.43 a.m., Brett Reedy called 911. According to the Washington Post, he told the dispatcher, it looks like something possibly happened. He went on to explain, we just walked in the door, her husband and I, and there's blood in the foyer. Carl called her name and looked around the house but didn't see Leslie. The dispatcher told Carl and Brett to wait for officers outside, since it appeared that the home was potentially a crime scene,

or that there was an accident, and EMTs could need room to get to Leslie quickly. though the blood was all downstairs in the foyer, Leslie's body was found upstairs in the shower. She was faced down at an awkward angle with her legs sticking out of the shower stall. Her body was wet. One of the responding officers told the 911 dispatcher, we're not fully sure of what we have yet. More officers were dispatched due to a suspicious situation at the prayer home.

But I do want to analyze this situation a little bit. You know, if you're Carl or any loved one who rushes home, you know, worried about a family member, and you see blood, but you're told by the 911 dispatcher weighed outside, is that something that you're going to be able to do? I think for a lot of people, the concern would be so great that, you know, you would start rushing around looking for that loved one. whether or not you can help out. And he had to be especially upset after finding the blood

and the things that he saw in that house. So he was, you know, not just a worried family member at that point. He's someone that had seen some of what happened in that house. Detectives arrived and found no signs of forced entry into the home. The neighborhood was considered to be quite safe. Captain Barney Forsyth, who was the head of the major crimes division at the time, told the Washington Post, it was not obvious that they were dealing with a homicide.

He speculated about the possibility that Leslie had taken her own life or maybe even reacted badly to a medication. It could also have been an accident where she was trying to make it to the bathroom to rinse blood off of herself and somehow fell into the shower. Apparently, no evidence was removed from the home that day. And I found this to be quite odd. based on, you know, some of the stuff that the 911 dispatcher said, you know, wait outside. This could be a crime scene.

Well, officers get there and then, you know, they find Leslie's body. You would think just out of precaution, they would treat it as a crime scene and at least collect evidence. Yeah, it's definitely a suspicious death. and you can always go back later if you deem that it's, you know, accidental or suicide or whatever it may be and change it to that. But I think the standard procedure is to treat a suspicious death like it may be a homicide at first and then adjust it from there. So it is kind of surprising that they didn't take any kind of evidence that day from the house. An autopsy would reveal that Leslie's death was no accident. She had been strangled and suffered blunt force trauma to her head. Two days after,

her death, investigators removed the frame from the front door to try to find any fingerprints the killer may have left behind. Investigators remain mostly tight-lipped, but did disclose to the Washington Post that it was a pretty brutal crime scene. It appeared that Leslie had fought back against her attacker. Male DNA was recovered from underneath Leslie's fingernails, but it didn't match anyone in any criminal database, and it also didn't match anyone close to Leslie. According to the Washington Post, everyone who was interviewed had their DNA taken, and all these samples were compared and eliminated, excluding them as suspects. There were signs of a struggle and also signs that Leslie's killer attempted to clean up the crime scene. A rug from the foyer had been

moved into the living room. It was covered in blood. An end table in the home had obviously been bumped into. It had been knocked over. There was a small puddle of water on the floor. On the floor in the foyer area where blood leading to the stairs had been wiped up. There was a blood spatter and smeared blood on the walls. It became clear that the blunt force trauma

to Leslie's head came from the foyer floor and the baseboard molding. Investigators believe that she was moved to the shower so that the killer could try to rinse off her body. There was also blood found in a trash can on the back door and in both the kitchen

and downstairs bathroom sink. The DNA from blood on the kitchen door that led to the Prere's backyard, blood under the dining room baseboard and on the doorway between the kitchen and the dining room, matched the DNA found under Leslie's fingernails. Somehow, Leslie's killer injured himself at the scene. Detectives discover that a neighbor who was putting one of her children in the car on their way to school that morning witnessed Carl Prueer leaving the house. At the time, he was calling back inside to someone that they

the neighbor assumed was Leslie. This was around 7.25 a.m. A different neighbor was outside for most of the morning with the children she was babysitting while they were playing in her yard. She didn't see her hear anything out of the ordinary. Police read a loss as to how someone had come and gone from the home that morning without being seen by neighbors. Leslie's murder marked the sixth homicide of a woman in Montgomery County in 18 months and they were all unsolved as of May 2001. But investigators didn't believe any of the murders were related. Police Chief Charles Moose, hoping to reassure the general public, told the Washington Post, there is no serial. There is no panic. He also warned people not to get involved, saying, we don't want there to be any

inference. And on a side note, if Chief Moose's name sounds familiar, it's because he would become well known. For his role, being in charge of stopping the DC sniper attacks the following year in 2002. But I want to talk about, you know, what he said to the Washington Post. There's no serial killer. There is no panic. We don't want people inferring things about these six homicides. Well, okay, you can say that, but it's going to be pretty tough for people not to have some

type of panic, especially women, if you have a large number of unsolved homicide. So you have this county that has these six homicides, but this particular neighborhood is supposed to be a safe one. So the fact they have one of these murders there undoubtedly set off alarm bells for people living there. Despite DNA being obtained from Leslie's killer, her case went cold. For years, her family hoped for answers. Leslie's husband, and Carl Prere passed away in 2017, without ever finding out who killed his wife. The official cause of his death was septic shock, but his daughter, Lauren, believes he died of a broken heart. Leslie's murder caused Lauren to become more vigilant and want to be able to protect

herself. She bought a 9mm tourist pistol and carried pepper spray with her at all times in her purse. She didn't wind up being a victim of a violent crime. And you know, more of sometimes it's the fallout from some of the, murders that you don't always hear everything about. I mean, obviously there's going to be grief and sorrow, but Carl passed away. He was still fairly young. I don't know if you can die of a broken heart necessarily, but his life obviously was altered completely. And then you have Lauren, whose life was as well, but she became extra vigilant. because of what happened to her mother.

And I think a lot of family members probably do. An incident like this happens, and it just changes everything in your world. You definitely can't blame her for being affected by this and wanting to protect herself. But I feel bad for her that she probably had this sense that whoever did this to her mom might one day come for her. In 2022, authorities renewed the investigation

into Leslie's murder. Detective Tara Bown from the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office told Fox 5 DC. The investigators were reaching out to the public to see if maybe there's some information out there that maybe someone didn't want to provide earlier. Someone had a change of heart or, you know, 21 years is a long time. There could have been confessions made or it's possible that someone wanted to unburden themselves. There was also a reward of up to $10,000 being offered for information that led to the arrest of the suspect or suspects responsible for Leslie's murder. Leslie's daughter Lauren told Fox 5 DC somebody knows something and just come forward.

Despite Leslie's killer remaining unidentified for over two decades, Lauren had a warning for the killer. You're going to get caught. One day or time, something's going to. come out. Detective Tara Bayone described the crime scene with fresh eyes to AOL.com as pretty brutal with a lot of blood and said that authorities were puzzled because, as she put it, you would just expect for someone to have seen or heard something during the murder. Somehow, no one saw a thing. And this was something that, you know, you touched on earlier more, there were people out in the neighborhood during the time that the murder occurred.

And as you know, you think about this crime scene and the amount of blood involved, it is puzzling. As it was to investigators, you know, how did someone gain entry to the home? How did they leave without being spotted? And obviously, you would think at the time that they left, they would have been most likely covered in blood. Yeah, it is surprising that either the neighbors that were around that day saw anything. And I think most of us probably don't want nosy neighbors, but I think a lot of us like the idea of neighbors that are going to just look out to see if anything is out of the ordinary, you know, for you and you do the same for them.

And, you know, these neighbors that were there just didn't see anything. And that may have helped the case along if they had. But does it also speak to the perpetrator, being careful, you know, maybe exiting through the back door where there was last chance that he would be seen? In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency? We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to two. what had once been impossible.

A new series from ABC Audio in 2020. Blood and water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. Investigators now were not just looking at the case with fresh eyes. They had science on their side and some huge advancements on the DNA front. In 2018, forensic genealogy had helped ID the Golden State killer, Joseph DiAngelo, and several other agencies had cleared long-and-self cases using genealysis. detectives in Leslie's case felt it was time to try that same technology, and in September

2022, they sent blood evidence collected from the Breer Home to Authrum Labs for analysis. Once they had the killer's DNA profile, they sent it to Family Tree DNA database. Using genetic genealogy, investigators were given the last name, Gilgur, for their suspect. They had a name to work with, but the work didn't stop there. Nicholas Augustine, assistant chief of police, told DC News now, once detectives get that information in forensic genealogy, they actually have to do a lot of tedious work through like a family tracing to develop a potential suspect or a linkage to a potential family member. And it's no secret morph that you and I have been fascinated with the genetic genealogy approach and its results for, you know, quite a few. few years now, heck, we did a whole season on cases solved using genetic genealogy. I just think it's an amazing crime fighting tool. Yeah, and I think detectives in this case were excited when they

saw that it worked and they wanted to try it and they decided to, it was worth the effort. Detective Tara Augustine discovered an old tip in the Leslie Pereer case file on June 2nd, 2004. The tip was about one of the two Gilgore boys living near the Prere's home, and it had been called in about nine months after Leslie was killed. The tipster was a former neighbor of the Golgore home who was suspicious of Eugene Gilgore. On January 30th, 2002, the neighbor expressed that they thought that he may be somehow related to the Leslie Pereer murder because the home, was often visited by the police due to noise and nuisance complaints, underage drinking, and drug use. It turns out that investigators hadn't asked Eugene Gilgore for DNA or interviewed

him during their initial investigation. Now that the genealogy pointed to the Gilgore family, they needed to surreptitiously gather Eugene's DNA to confirm the connection. Investors Cors tailing their suspect found themselves at Dulles International Airport. In Virginia, on June 9th, 2024, they followed Gilgour until he finished off a bottle of water and tossed the bottle in the trash can. After he walked away, they collected the bottle and analyzed it for DNA. They ran their new sample against the DNA from the Prueh home. It was a match.

Eugene Gilgore was Leslie Prue. career's killer. Their suspect's DNA was not encoded, and he had no violent criminal record. Finally, on June 18, 2004, 44-year-old Eugene Teodor Gilgore was arrested by the U.S. Marshal's fugitive task force in Washington, D.C. He was 21 years old at the time of Leslie's murder. Lauren Prier was quoted by AOL.com reacting to the news, saying, It's been a hell of a day. Leslie's daughter, Lauren, said in shock, he was my ex-boyfriend. That's right.

Eugene Gilgore wasn't just a random neighborhood resident. He had a connection to the family, having dated Lauren. He had never been a suspect in the original investigation. And it never crossed Lauren's mind that he could be responsible for her mom's murder. When he was taken into custody, Gilgour was wearing a stealth monitoring t-shirt. Ironically, he was an account executive at the home security company from September 2003 until he was arrested.

He was extradited to Montgomery County. So it's amazing, right, that they make this connection. But then, you know, you look back at this guy. And I think you have to wonder, morph, why wasn't he maybe looked at a little harder back when the murder took place. You know, it's a known fact that people close to the family or looked at, well, if this guy was an ex-boyfriend, it does seem like he was missed. You know, they took some DNA from people. Why would they not have taken DNA from Eugene way back then? And just to play devil's advocate, I don't know how far they've been. They've been. They've,

would go back looking for ex-boyfriends, you know, maybe if there was some history where he threatened the family or he had a known criminal record that it might have, you know, come up on the radar. Even Lauren didn't really think about him being, you know, connected in any way to the case. So, you know, just a tough situation. They just somehow missed him. Yeah. And we don't know how long it had been since they had dated. So, I mean, there's some variables there, but I mean, I think it's something to question. Living with any loss is hard. And for Lauren, the loss of her mom was no exception. When the loss is due to murder with the killer unidentified, that loss also causes fear, as was the case for Lauren. She told DC News now, I had someone who had murdered my mom brutally,

and they were out there. Knowing that Eugene Gilgher was the individual responsible, brought on a sense of relief, but it was also a shock. Lorne said, we've known each other since I was 15. It was hard for her to believe that her ex-boyfriend was capable of killing anyone. She never experienced anything that would make her think he could do something like that. She said he was always gentle and sweet, never saw him in a fight. He was never mean to me. But there was a time around 1995 that Lorne remembered going to talk to investigators, who were looking at Eugene as a suspect in the assault of a woman that occurred on a bike path near their homes. She went basically as a character witness to tell police that they had the wrong guy,

despite him fitting their description. In her mind, there was just no way he was responsible. Her best friend joined her that day and said the same thing. And I don't know that, you know, this is all that unusual. You know, when you're dating someone and even if the relationship ends, if it was pretty normal as this one appeared to be, I do think it would be hard for most people to think that an ex-boyfriend, an ex-girlfriend could be capable of murder.

If you spent a lot of time with that person and you just never saw anything that even remotely resembled that type of behavior. Yeah, it definitely seems like there was no glaring warning signs, at least that Lauren could think of looking back on her relationship. or the time after her relationship. Aside from dating, Lauren and Eugene Gilgore grew up near each other. His family lived just minutes from the prayer home.

His father was a professor at the University of Maryland. And his mother was a stay-at-home mom who had once worked at the World Bank. Eugene was the youngest of two boys. Eugene and Lauren began dating when they were both attending Bethesda Chevy Chase High School. They spent a lot of time at, each other's homes and each spent time with the other's parents and were there for family meals

together. They went on family trips and played board games too. It was all very normal and wholesome, with no sign that Eugene could be dangerous. The marriage between Eugene's parents didn't last and their divorce wasn't easy, according to court records. According to the Washington Post, Virgil Gilgore alleged that his wife, Judith Graves, condone the charge. children's shoplifting, drug use, and theft of money. Judith didn't agree with these accusations. The boys, at least Eugene, were getting into trouble quite often. Records from the divorce show that he was expelled from his boarding school.

So there's clearly some things in Eugene's past that show he was capable of getting in trouble, maybe not violent things, but, you know, the drug use, theft, shoplifting, there was a troubling pattern there. And I think, you know, had there been violence mixed in with that, maybe he would have stood out as a suspect earlier. Yeah, but I go back to Lauren. I'm sure she knew about some of this stuff. But like you said, this wasn't violent stuff.

This was, I don't want to say kid stuff because not every kid shoplifts or uses drugs, but, you know, a lot of people do. Let's face it. do you look at that and make the leap to, well, you know, he gets into some trouble. Maybe he killed my mother. And I would say that would be a hard connection to make for Lauren. So I don't blame her, you know, on that at all. Yeah, I think if he had a history of, you know, confirmed attacks against people or maybe

was hurting animals, things like that, he probably would have jumped. out a lot quicker than in the investigation. Or even if he had been violent to Lorne, which by her accounts, he was not. She said it, right? He was gentle. He was kind. He was sweet. After high school, Lauren and Eugene tried to keep dating long distance, but it didn't work out.

Eugene attended the University of Maryland Global Campus from 1999 to 2003. After they broke up, they ran into each other a few times, but it didn't seem like there was any bad blood between them. They both just moved on and started seeing other people. It wouldn't have been odd if Eugene Gilgher showed up to Leslie's funeral since the families had once been close, but he didn't. Instead, he took an impromptu trip to see a friend who lived in Portland, Oregon. His friend didn't even know he was coming until he was already on his way, and there was no real way to say no since he was traveling across the country. The friend thought it was weird that Eugene took a trip cross country without consulting him first. A few months after

his murder. Eugene and his family moved away from the area. He did end up with a criminal record as an adult. He was arrested for driving under the influence, theft, and possession of weapons. He had also been a suspect in multiple residential burglaries, but was not charged. By 2015, Eugene Gilgore had moved to New York, started working in the restaurant industry, and he had married and divorced his first wife. Eventually, he moved back to Washington, D.C. and remarried. To those who knew Eugene, he seemed like a kind of person who was working on himself. He donated $1,000 to the DC nonprofit organization community of hope, and he would often recommend that people read the book The Four Agreements, a practical guide to personal freedom. Many of his friends did know that

Eugene struggled with alcohol and regularly at the time. attended alcoholics anonymous. They were also aware of his stents in rehab. Shortly after her mom's funeral, Lauren ran into Eugene at a bar in Bethesda, Maryland. And he looked at her and said, I'm so sorry. Lauren told NBC Washington,

never in a million years did we think one of our people could hurt my mom like that. She was just the most beautiful person inside and out. And she was not just a mother to me. She was a mother to all of my friends. somehow Eugene Gilgore fooled everyone including Lauren. One of his best friends even remembered time that someone approached Eugene and asked him who he thought had killed Leslie. The woman basically considered him an insider to the case since he once dated Lauren.

He looked directly at her making eye contact and said, Your guess is as good as mine. He did it with a straight face and didn't look anxious or nervous at all. And more if we cover quite a few unsolved cases. have covered over the years. And a lot of times, you know, you're talking about, let's say, a killer. And you're asking the question,

you know, how do they go undetected? Well, these types of cases, I think, help provide some insight. You know, here you have a guy who doesn't confide in anyone about what he did. There's no one to turn him in. he's not acting strangely he's not really doing anything to put himself on the radar and like we said you know even Lauren who dated him didn't think he was capable of doing this he just seemed to

blend in and go on about his life and i think we know there are people that are good liars or have good poker faces and you know here in this one situation he's talking to somebody about the murder and completely fools them. He doesn't show any tells that he's actually the killer. Now, there were some people who did see a violent side to Eugene. In 2021, his second wife filed for a restraining order against him due to his behavior. But it wasn't granted because according to a Montgomery County district court commissioner, there was no reasonable grounds to believe that abuse, as defined in the statute occurred. She had described outbursts by Gilgore

where he would punch walls, throw things, and scream in her face. The same year, Lauren Prier received text messages from Eugene's brother, who said he was afraid of Eugene and thought he was going to harm him.

Lauren didn't reply to these messages. So we know that Eugene Gilgur was his killer. So the who isn't a mystery, but the why, still is. There's no known motive for Leslie's murder. As far as Lauren was aware, Leslie liked Eugene, and had always been kind to him. There are some theories, though, about what happened. Since Eugene was named as a suspect for multiple residential burglaries and was actually charged with theft, some people think he tried to burglarize the home and found Leslie there, and things went sideways.

The problem with this theory is that there was no sign of forced entry, so many people wondered if Leslie willingly opened the door for him. She was familiar. She was familiar. familiar with him, always liked him, and she probably still thought of him as the kid who had dated her daughter. She wouldn't have necessarily been alarmed by him or refused to open the door. And I actually think that's a good theory. You know, when you talk about no signs of forced entry, and we're assuming that the doors were locked. We don't know that for sure, but I think you assume the doors are locked and this person was let in. Well, you know, where does that kind of lead you. And oftentimes it leads you down the path that the victim was at least acquainted in some

way with their killer. And now we find out that, yeah, obviously, Leslie was acquainted with Eugene. He had been over to the house a lot during the time that he dated Lauren. I don't think she would have had any concern probably about letting him inside the home. And I think that opens up the possibility that this was premeditated and he knew he was going to murder her because she'd be able to identify him, having known him so well. So I wonder if when he went through that day and she answered that door, if he knew that he wasn't going to leave her alive as a witness. Sadly, we may never know why Eugene Gilgore did what he did, not unless he decides to talk. Eugene Gilgore has been charged with first-degree murder. He maintains his innocence and has pleaded not guilty.

There is no bond because of how often he traveled. Prosecutors argued that he was a flight risk, so he will be held in custody until his trial. There is a case review scheduled for October 25th, 2004, a day before this episode airs, at the Montgomery County Circuit Court in Rockville, Maryland. trial is scheduled for January 2025. Eugene Golgore is currently being held at the Montgomery County Correctional Facility.

So this is one morph that we'll definitely have to stay tuned to to see what happens with this case. But as we wrap this first part up, in my mind, it's hard not to believe. Given the evidence that we've talked about that the prosecution is going to have, have a pretty strong case against Eugene Gilgall. It seems like he'd have a hard time explaining how his DNA is under Leslie's fingernails. Yeah, hopefully what does come out, although I don't know how likely it is, is what was the motive?

You know, did Eugene know that Leslie was alone in the home? did he go there to commit a sexual assault and make the decision that he was going to kill her because she would have known who he was or did he go there that day with the sole intention of committing murder? And if so, why Leslie? It's frustrating when these cases are solved, but there's still no complete answers. And you have to wonder if, you know, for, Leslie's family if that is something that you know having justice is good but having those

questions on the answer to that's still like you know an all new wound or one that won't heal yeah I mean let's see what happens you know when the trial occurs and and what kind of information comes out next we're going to talk about another case from 2001 that was in danger grown cold, and this case shows how complicated forensic genetic genealogy can be, not just the actual process of finding the right suspect in a family tree, but also legally and ethically. Twenty-five-year-old Christine Frankie was killed on October 21st, 2001. She had finished a double shift early that morning, and then returned to her apartment in Orlando, Florida, near Universal Orlando. She was living with her girlfriend while attending the University of

Central Florida. On this day, her girlfriend, her girlfriend, was out of town. When the girlfriend couldn't get a hold of her by phone, she got in touch with a neighbor and asked him to check on Christine. The neighbor found Christine inside the apartment dead, just feet from the front door. She'd been killed by one gunshot to the head. Her wallet, which was empty, was on the floor next to her. Christine worked as a server at Cigars Bar, which is a restaurant at Universal Orlando City Walk, and she earned a lot of cash tips. It's estimated that around $300 and tip money had been stolen. At first, it seemed that Christine was the victim of a robbery.

But there was semen on her partially clothed body indicating a sexual attack. Investigators collected DNA from this and ran it through their databases, but there was no match. Fingerprints recovered from the scene and from the bullet casing left behind. Also had no match in their respective databases. Whoever had killed Christine didn't have a record. That police could find. By 2005, a snapshot of what the suspect might look like had been created by Parabon Nanolabs using the DNA sample,

and investigators knew they were most likely looking for a black male. But that doesn't really help narrow it down at all when you don't know the suspect's name or where to look for them. The DNA didn't match any of Christine's family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, or any potential suspects at the time. stories can think of. In 2012, Orlando Detective Michael Fields took over the case. As years passed, he knew that DNA might help provide answers, so he eventually reached out to Parabon Nanolabs and asked for their assistance in the case once again. Using Jedmatch, researchers found two of

the suspect's cousins in the database and used their names to build a family tree. They ended up zeroing in on the DNA of a couple who lived in Valdosta, Georgia in the early 1900s. They had a lot of descendants which complicated the process. According to Clickorlando.com, the couple had 10 children, at least 42 grandchildren, and more than 40 great-grandchildren. Paul Hogan, whose DNA helped set investigators on the right track, said, we have a huge, huge family. I've got like 650 fourth cousins and a bunch of second and third cousins. Okay, we've talked about big families before, but, uh, yeah, this is a big family. You've got 650 fourth cousins.

Number one, that's a big family reunion if they're having them. And then also, you're not going to be able to attend everybody's birthdays. There's just no way. Yeah. And if you're an amateur genealogist and you just want to try and put your family tree together, you probably got your work cut out for you. Well, and it's also going to make it much harder, right, to go down the genetic genealogy path. In October of 2018, investigators ended up at the home of Eleanor Holmes in Val Doste.

The detectives told Eleanor and her husband that they were working on figuring out the identity of someone who died years ago. Instantly, Eleanor thought of her niece, who she hadn't heard from in about a decade. She wondered if this unidentified person could be hurt. The Orlando detectives asked her for a DNA swab, which could help. them figure out if they were on the right track in their investigation. They also told her that her sister and her aunt had given DNA samples already. Eleanor, who was in her mid-70s, quickly let investigators get a swab of her DNA. She later told NBC News, I just did it because that was the only thing on my mind, my niece. A few days later, Eleanor learned that her 39-year-old son,

Benjamin Holmes Jr. had been arrested. His girlfriend called Eleanor Frantic to tell her that her son had been arrested for Christine Frankie's murder. His girlfriend called Eleanor. Frantic to tell her that her son had been arrested. Eleanor told NBC News. When they arrested him, I knew they were lying, meaning the police who had contacted her about obtaining her DNA. To obtain Benjamin Holmes Jr.'s DNA, investigators followed him. At the time, he was working as the manager of a Wendy's restaurant in Orlando.

They ended up telling him to a friend's house where they saw him discard multiple cigar butts and took their opportunity to get the sample. Testing revealed that his DNA was a match to the killer of Christine Frankie. Detectives had obtained DNA samples from several relatives of Benjamin Holmes Jr. And ruled each one out. But they knew that they were on the right track and that someone in the first, family was the killer. Finally, Benjamin Holmes Jr. was a match and police knew that they had their killer. According to Click Orlando, when Holmes was shown the warrant for his arrest,

he became instantly nervous and claimed his DNA was planted. Holmes's criminal defense attorney Jerry Gurley raised issues about how authorities ended up narrowing down the identity using DNA, claiming that it was obtained through false pretenses. It makes sense that, and investigators wouldn't be entirely truthful. And Eleanor Holmes admits that she wouldn't have been so cooperative if she had known why they were really asking for her DNA. She told NBC News. Had she known why they wanted her DNA, she would have said, I don't want to get involved.

That's the first thing I would say. So there's no doubt that authorities bent the truth when they were dealing with Eleanor. They knew why they were there. They wanted to get her DNA, but it had nothing to do with a missing person. They were trying to figure out if her relative Benjamin was a match to the DNA they had in evidence. And again, you know, we talk about people wanting to cooperate with police. You want to be helpful.

You want to help solve crime. But at the same time, do you really want to be the one who, helps put away a family member. Some people would say, no, I wouldn't want to do that. Others would say, if they had really killed someone, I would still cooperate because I would want them to face justice. But that's a hard decision. I would think for many people to make. I guess, you know, one of the big questions in this case is, you know, what are the ethics? And did they crossed the line. Yeah, I think there's a long history of police flat out bending the truth or lying to suspects. They don't have to tell the truth. They'll say your friends in the other room talking and

you might as well tell us what you know or, you know, we've got X, Y, or Z that connects you to the case in an effort to get people to talk. You know, I think of when they lied to Dennis Raider, B.T.K. About, you know, floppy desk, no, we can't trace you through through those. And then he fell for and he was caught. So I think there's a good history of police not being honest when they're trying to nail these killers. But I think this is a little bit of uncharted territory when you're lying to a family member in an effort to get their DNA. Do you have to tell them the real reason you're trying to get that DNA? And I think this is a sort of a new, new area that we have to explore. Which always happens, right? When you have

new technology, well, then you have new situations and questions arise that at some point will probably have to be ruled on by a higher court. You know, higher courts have consistently said that the police can lie to suspect, but does that extend to, you know, a 70-some-year-old woman as they're attempting to obtain her DNA? Authorities believe that Christine fought back against Holmes, thwarting his attempt to sexually assault her. Like Eugene Guilford, Benjamin Holmes Jr. was barely past 20 years old at the time he killed Christine Frankie. But just like in the Leslie Pruer case, despite knowing who Christine's killer was and having him in custody, they weren't sure how he ended up at Christine's apartment

the morning she was killed. Assistant State Attorney Sean Wiggins told Click Orlando. However, he found her, he saw her as a source of quick cash, an object of some sort of perverted sexual desire. He made the choices that he made that night and left a piece of himself behind. And then for the better part of 18 years, he walked free. And I will say, you know, it's one of the things that bugs me in these cases. It's great that eventually using some of this new technology, the authorities are able to identify these perpetrators. But then you think about how they got to live 18, 20 plus years as free individuals.

And that part kind of irks you because obviously their victims did not. When the arrest came, Christine's family was happy. Christine's mom, Tina, Frankie told NBC News, I thought they'd never catch it. John Hogan, home second cousin, who had uploaded his DNA to Jedmatch, was stunned. He told Click Orlando, When you told me that my DNA helped solve a 17-year cold case murder, I just couldn't believe it. The power of DNA. It's unbelievable. John Hogan also had a message for the Frankie family. Just know that my family stands behind you guys.

We're grieving with you at the same time. We're happy and we're so joyous that you found closure. John Hogan has no regrets about his DNA helping arrest a member of his family. One interesting thing is that John Hogan, whose DNA helped find a killer, is fascinated with true crime and actually tried to be elected as coroner. He followed investigations involving forensic genetic genealogy like the Golden State Killer Investigation and used Jedmatch for that very reason, never dreaming that his DNA, would actually help authorities. He told Click Orlando, I never in a million years would have thought I would be a part of something like this. Yeah, it's clear that John is a bit of a true crime buff.

And he was aware of Jedmatch in part because of the Golden State Killer case and other cases like that. So he took it upon himself to upload his DNA and maybe thought on the off chance, I'm happy to help an investigator someplace on a case and probably never, as he said, thought it would actually happen. But I think it's pretty cool. And I think that's why a lot of people actually put their DNA profiles in Jedmatch because they, if they can be part of solving a case and some distant relative goes down for it, you know, so be it. But I think like John Hogan, most people who do it don't really believe that their DNA is ever going to really help crack a cold case.

But I liked some of the things John Hogan said. I mean, obviously a member of his family was found to be a killer. But everything that, you know, he's talking about is, you know, they're grieving with the Frankie family. They're happy that they found closure. And he has no regrets about what. he did. In March, 2003, Benjamin Holmes Jr. was found guilty of Christine Frankie's murder and sentenced the life in prison without the possibility of parole. Despite being found guilty, it seems he took no

responsibility or showed remorse. Instead, during his sentencing hearing, he maintained his innocence saying, I am not the man or the person who murdered Christine Frankie. So there are some questions surrounding the ethics, especially regarding the arrest and conviction of Benjamin Holmes Jr. Should police have really told his mom why they wanted her DNA? We know that police don't always have to be honest with suspects when they talk about the details of a case, but should they be when trying to get a family member to help provide DNA? It's likely that one way or another, they would have landed on Benjamin Holmes Jr. eventually, but discussion about how they use DNA in the case has led to some people feeling as though it was

unethical. And I get that. Anytime you know, you're using a ruse or you're lying, especially when it's to someone who's not the actual suspect. There are going to be people who are, you know, going to lean towards that side of it being unethical. But, is it illegal? Because those are two very different things. And I certainly get the concern that some people bring forward with that. But I also try and look at it from Christine Frankie's family's viewpoint that they just want that case solved. And the investigators were trying to get that done and give them some peace. So I can see this from both sides.

Yeah, I can too. As with a lot of issues arise surrounding crimes and, and the legal system, I can see multiple sides of things. But like I said before, you know, I don't know if, if this has been ruled on by higher court. If not, I think it will be at some point because, you know, some of the techniques are changing rapidly. As the technology changes, well, the new rulings have to be made about how you can use it. what you can and cannot do.

And then as long as, you know, the police stay within the legal limits that have been set. And, you know, you can talk about the ethics of it. But at the end of the day, they zeroed in on a killer. And that is huge by my way of thinking. Yeah, both of these cases had some parallels, but also some key differences too. You know, with Leslie's case, it turned out that. that the killer was someone close to her family, someone that had a history with her family,

and like in most homicides, was somebody known to her, whereas in Christine's case, it seems from everything police can gather that they had no connection, they didn't know each other. So her case was one where her killer was a stranger, and most times that's not the case.

Most people are not killed by a stranger. But in the end, you know, one family got justice. I think another family probably soon will if the trial goes their way and the way that most people think it will go. I do want to go back to something that Lauren said. And it was, you're going to get caught one day or time, something's going to come out. And that was pretty prophetic. And, you know, as I've talked about numerous times, I don't. I don't. I, do believe that there are a lot of people out there still alive who have killed somebody in the past and gotten away with it who are nowhere near as comfortable today as they

were 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. I mean, more if you're someone who committed a heinous crime and there's even the slightest chance that you left some DNA behind, you can't not be sleeping well at night, which is a great thing because we don't want these people sleeping well anyway. But there's a good chance that some type of DNA technology is going to get you. Yeah, it's great to see these two 23-year-old cases solved with forensic genealogy. And, you know, if it wasn't for that, who knows if these cases would be solved. Yeah, and I think probably not. You know, you go back to what I think police were left with in a lot of cases prior to this type of technology. They had the DNA of the killer.

It was in all the databases. They just had no match in any of the databases. So what were they doing? What could they do? But wait for a hit. This new technology, they're not waiting on anything. Yeah, and you just called it new technology. It's, it's hard to believe it's been, what, six years since they used it to catch Joseph

the Angeles. So it's just so common now. And who knows what they're going to have, you know, three, four, five years down the line, who knows what else they'll be able to do. And, and what other tools will have at their disposal. Yeah, I still keep calling it new, even though you're right. It's been around for a while now. But, yeah, I thought, you know, these.

were two interesting cases. Now, we had a lot more information, obviously on the murder of Leslie Prier, not quite so much on the murder of Christine Frankie, even though her killer has actually been convicted. And we'll still have to wait to see what ultimately happens in the case of Eugene Gogle. But that's it for our episode on. on Leslie Prier and Christine Frankie. If you love the show, but haven't done so yet, take a minute,

go out, give us a five-star rating, you can leave a review. Also, keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the podcast really goes a long way. If you want to find us on social media,

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next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then, for Mike and Morph. We'll talk to you next week. Take care, everyone.