Criminology - Lucille Johnson

Episode Date: March 23, 2025

In 1991, Lucille Johnson, a friendly mother and grandmother was bludgeoned and strangled to death inside her home. It's a case that would become referred to by some as the 'Lego' murder because of a curious clue found at the crime scene. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the murder of Lucille Johnson. For years, her case puzzled investigators and had her community concerned over her unsolved murder until finally, fingerprints and DNA helped pinpoint Lucille's killer. You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology   An Emash Digital production

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day. Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Everyone and welcome to episode 351 of the criminology podcast. This is Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Morph, how you doing this week, buddy? I'm doing good.

Stay a little bit busy, working, enjoying the weather a little bit. What are you doing? Well, I am getting ready for this March Madness. You know, that's one of my favorite times of the year. I love college basketball, but I especially love the tournament. There's just something about the tournament with all this, you know, Cinderella teams, the upsets. I just love every part of it.

Yeah, I've never gotten to basketball. I'm a big football fan though. So the draft is coming up. I'm excited about that and always looking forward to that. Well, in baseball starting, there's a lot of sports going on, basketball is still going on. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout out. So we had ag.

and Don Murphy. So some great new support. We really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much for that support. It really helps us out for anyone else that would like to support the show. Head on over to Patreon.com slash criminology to get started. And I have been watching a lot of true crime docs lately.

I don't know if you've seen this one morph, but I've been watching this one about Karen Reed on HBO Max. Have you seen it? I haven't seen that one yet. That is on my list, though. Yeah, it's pretty good. You know, her boyfriend was a Boston police officer died mysteriously and she goes on trial. They had a lot of good access. And then after I finished, I guess what is the first season or whatever,

it said, Paradise Lost. And I hadn't seen Paradise Lost in years. So I watched it. And I was like, man, I forgot how good that series was, you know, starting in the, what, middle, 90s, it really kind of is the, you know, one of the first true crime docs. And they had such amazing access. And I really hearken back to that as kind of a kickoff for me as far as true crime documentaries. I know a lot of people are interested in that case and talk about it online. So it definitely worth watching and seeing what they've got to offer. All right. It's time to jump into our case for this week. And we're discussing the February 1919. Utah murder of Lucille Johnson,

a friendly mother and grandmother. She was bludgeoned and strangled to death. Inside her home in a case that would become referred to by some as the Lego murder. For reasons which we'll discuss, for years, her case puzzled investigators and had her community concerned over her unsolved murder until finally fingerprints and DNA helped pinpoint Lucille's killer. By 1991, Lucille Johnson was certainly getting up there in age, but she wasn't slowing down.

At 78 years old, she still had a very active social life. She was president of Southern Utah Broadcasting and the Real Estate Group Investment Center, and she was the Relief Society Secretary in her ward. Recently widowed, Lucille lived alone in the home she once shared with her husband in the town of Holiday, Utah, just outside of Salt Lake City. Holiday is about 30,000 residents and a crime rate that's lower than the national average. According to Neighborhood Scout.com, your chances of being the victim of a violent crime and holiday is about 1 in 583, compared to 1 in 431 for the state of Utah as a whole.

Lucille and her late husband Howard got married in 1933. Both devout members of the church, they had their wedding at the LDS Temple in Salt Lake City. The two were married for 56 years and had five children together. Howard passed away at the age of 78 in August 1989, and after he passed, Lucille tried to stay active in the community. On Friday, February 1st, 1991, Lucille went about her day, as she usually did. She stopped by the hospital to visit one of her neighbors,

who had been admitted following an illness and then dropped off a meal for a different neighbor, who was also sick. Lucille has been described as kind, loving, and compassionate. And it's evident what kind of person she was, based on all of this. Lucille wasn't going to let someone be lonely when they were in the hospital. And she wasn't going to let a sick neighbor go hungry. Though she was 78 and no one would have blamed her for sitting back and letting others take

care of her, she was happier being the person that spent her day helping others. And so I think, you know, more if we're really getting a picture here of Lucille and she's kind of an amazing person, you know, married 56 years. That in itself is awesome. Unfortunately, her husband passes away, but she's not just sitting in her house watching TV. I mean, she is out. She's a member of a number of different. organizations. There's no doubt she went out of her way to help people and really got some gratification from that. Yeah, I think most listeners probably know somebody like this. You know,

when I was a kid, my grandmother and a few of her friends were always active doing fundraising for this or that and sponsoring things and making cakes to raise money for things and just always busy. And you know, looking back because I'm the H, my grandmother was back then, I'm Zapp for Energy just doing podcast here. So for them to be going out and about and and doing all that they were doing and all the things that Lucille was doing, you know, you got to give them credit for, for being on the go and doing all that stuff. Yeah, and it's the fact that they're not

doing it for themselves, right? They're doing it for other people. And that really is amazing. Lucille had been having some car trouble recently, so she decided to have her car looked at instead of driving it back home. At the dealership, she learned it would take quite some time for the inspection, so one of the employees offered a driver to her house so she could wait at home for a car to be looked at. Later in the afternoon, a neighbor saw her sweeping her front porch. At some point after going back inside, Lucille stopped answering calls coming into her home phone. Lucille failing to answer the phone was a little bit worrisome due to her age, with how much she was involved.

involved in and how active she was in the church and the community, it wouldn't be too unusual for her to be busy or not home. Because of Lucille's busy schedule, there was no alarm sounded when people didn't hear from her right away and no wellness checks were done. On the next day, Saturday, February 2nd, Lucille's daughter, Shirley, went to check on Lucille. She had actually thought about checking on her the previous evening, but for some reason decided against it. When there was still no word from her by the next morning, Shirley was. She knew she needed to go see her mom in person. In Shirley's mind, at the very least, her mom's phone wasn't working, and they would need

to figure that out. In one of the worst case scenarios she thought of, her mom was lying on the floor helpless, unable to get up like the people in a life alert commercial and needed help. Sadly, what Shirley would find would be even worse than she could have imagined. When Shirley got to the home, the storm door was open, which is extremely, unusual because Lucille was known to keep her exterior door shut and locked. As Shirley entered the house, she found Lucille's body in the hallway. There was visible blood sped her next to her mom's head, which was still underneath a pillow that had been placed on top of her head. She was lying on her

back, so the pillow was covering her face. Although Shirley couldn't see her mom's face, she knew that she was dead. She raced over to the phone to call police, knowing that what she had found wasn't the result of a medical emergency, but rather a murder. Police and detectives arrived quickly at Lucille's home located at 4284 South Holloway Drive. It was immediately clear to investigators that Lucille's murder had been a brutal one and was incredibly violent. It seemed as if Lucille's killer didn't attack her out of necessity, the 78-year-old frail Lucille hadn't mounted some kind of fight for her life that led her killer to attack her even harder and faster. Yet Lucille had suffered several injuries, and more than one of those injuries would have been fatal on their own. An autopsy would reveal that Lucille's skull had been fractured from multiple blows to the head from an unknown blunt object.

Her sternum was broken and every single one of her ribs had been fractured. A boot print found on her chest indicated that her killer had literally stomped on her body. She had also been strangled, which, along with the blunt force trauma, was listed as the official cause of her death. When it was over, the killer laid a pillow over Lucille's face, likely done so that he or she wouldn't need to see their 78-year-old victim's lifeless face, looking up at them. Some investigators thought that perhaps this was a sign that Lucille's killer knew her and felt some shame or guilt. And I'll tell you what, as I went through some of those details, I started to become infuriated with just the thought that someone could do this to a mother, a grandmother, someone who everyone seemed to love, I had a visceral reaction, Morp. Yeah, I think any crime like this when you hear the details is terrible. but for some reason when the victim's elderly or a child that goes through this, it seems especially

heinous. Yeah, I think it has something to do with the vulnerability of the population, right, of the person that you're talking about. But me, obviously, this was a horrific murder. And my thoughts also went to Shirley as she entered the home and found her mother. in this state. I mean, I can only imagine what that would be like. Yeah, and she could tell from the scene that her mom had already passed away and there was nothing she could do. And, you know, we hear cases where the person that finds their loved one is in disbelief or in shock and they refuse to believe that they're dead. And here it seems like right away surely knew that there's nothing that could be done. So she called the police right away. And I think we have to talk

about the pillow being placed over Lucille's face. And as I said, investigators are going to think that that may be a sign that Lucille knew her killer. You know, that's where I kind of go as well, because it does turn out that oftentimes when you see that type of situation, the killer is known to the victim, why else would someone feel as though they needed to do that. And to me, I think that even if they didn't know their victim, just seeing that little old lady's face looking back at them, if they had any kind of heart, which doesn't sound like they did,

but if they had any kind of feelings, that might bother them. And I could see why even a stranger might cover their face up after they had done something like that to them. Yeah, that's a good point. So if it's not a person known to the victim, are we not talking about maybe a heartless serial killer here? As investigators moved around the home, they found the crime scene was confusing. Their item was missing, as you would expect, in a burglary or robbery, but there was some important things that had been left behind, which made it seem less likely that whoever killed Lucille had been there for her belongings. Her wallet hadn't been taken, but a few pieces of her.

jewelry were gone. The ring and necklace she always wore were missing. In the living room, investigators found a pile of Lego pieces and the large square board you attach him to. A few pieces had been placed onto the board next to the pile. The instructional booklets were on the other side of the board. The way the Legos were arranged, it seemed that a child might walk out and shock investigators. In fact, it's exactly what you would have seen if one of Lucille's grandchildren had been there, sitting on the carpet and playing with the Legos. But none of her grandchildren had visited her on February 1st, and she definitely would not have had them still out after an earlier visit.

Lucille was a neat freak and a tidy person. As soon as the grandkids were gone, the twigs were always put away. So police wondered, had Lucille's killer been playing with Legos before, after she was killed, and a more frightening thought was, could Lucille's killer have brought a child to the scene during the time she was killed. The Legos left out in the living room weren't the only ones found.

There were a few more scattered in the entryway to the home and some had been left outside in the driveway. Since the Legos just felt out of place at the scene, investigators collected them as evidence, even though they were not directly involved in the murder. They were not bloody and they weren't capable of causing the damage to Lucille's skull no matter how you arrange them, but it just felt to investigators like they were an important

piece of the puzzle. So they were logged into evidence along with the other clues, the pillow, the boot print, and the blood spattered. Moving further around the house, there were no signs of forced entry into the home. This led police to wonder if Lucille let her attack her inside, and did she know her killer? Was the violent overkill fueled by a personal issue with Lucille? At one point early on in the investigation. Investigators believed this was the case and actually suspected her nephew. They inspected his shoes, but none of them were a match to the boot print on Lucille's chest. There was nothing linking him to the crime other than the theory that Lucille got tired of helping him out financially, and he snapped killing her. What was frightening was the complete lack of suspects.

Police could find nobody with a bad word to say about Lucille and no clear suspects with a reason to harm her. News of Lucille's murder shocked her neighbors. And as more and more time passed with no arrest, residents wondered if the killer was living in their midst. So more if the Legos are definitely odd, there's no doubt about that. But when you talk about a complete lack of suspects, well, in my mind, aren't you more likely to have that with a 78-year-old woman who, you know, is living on her own? Who would want to kill that type of person?

You know, you're not looking at most likely some of the things that you would be in a much younger person. You know, maybe a love triangle or, you know, something along those lines. Not that it couldn't happen, but you could understand why police would have a lot less in the way of suspects with this type of victim. And that's probably especially true with her age range, if most of her peers, are up there in age, it's less likely that one of them would be capable physically of doing something like this. So I think that probably hindered the investigation a little bit. And maybe that pointed away from it being somebody that she knew. But then that leads to the question then without forced entry, how did they get into the home? Lucille's murder remained unsolved with no good

leads for decades. Finally, in August of 2013, the case with a case with, was looked at with fresh eyes just a little over 22 years. After the murder, police were going to make another run at solving it. Thanks to new, though still limited funding, authorities sent two items to be tested with new technology, the pillow that had been left on Lucille's face and scrapings from underneath her fingernails. Forensic analysis recovered a DNA sample from those scrapings and a DNA profile was created. then it was uploaded into the CODIS database. And as luck would have it, the profile matched someone already in the database.

That being the profile of a man named John Sansing. When Lucille was killed, John Sansing was 25 years old. So Lucille was obviously no match for him physically. When investigators questioned him, he was 46 and on death row in Arizona's prison system. There was no known connection between Sansing and Lucille. and they didn't even live in the same state. Police were stumped. While they were sure based on the DNA that they had the right man,

they couldn't figure out what connection, if any, there was between Lucille and John Sansing. As we mentioned, Lucille kept their doors locked and there was no sign of forced entry. So how could Sansing, a total stranger to Lucille, get into her home in order to murder her? When investigators questioned Sansing, he wasn't talking. He denied any involvement in Lucille's murder.

but he did reveal that during the month of her murder, he was living in Salt Lake City close to Lucille. Suddenly it made more sense to police that Lucille and Sansing may have crossed paths. While he didn't admit it outright, Sansing also ended up disclosing exactly how they met. When he lived in Utah, he was working at a car dealership.

Investigators put two and two together and realized that John Sansing was the employee who drove her home from the car dealership on February 1st, 1991. It's a heartbreaking detail if she hadn't had car trouble that day or if she had taken her car to a different mechanic instead of the dealership or if she had decided to go the next day. I mean, you can run through any number of scenarios. It could mean that this would have never have happened. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman for

fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency. We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020. Blood and Water. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Some people have wondered how dealership employees were not questioned. especially one that had been to Lucille's home.

A stranger driving her home just before her murder should have been something that was checked out by police immediately after the murder. If that was done, maybe the case would have been solved quickly. But even known that John Sansing drove Lucille home that day, still left a big piece of the puzzle missing. Because Lucille was last seen alive after she was dropped off at home by him, she was sweeping her porch, perfectly safe and healthy. It's likely safe to assume that when she went back inside, after finishing up her sweeping, she locked the doors behind her.

So how exactly did John Sansing get inside? So 20-some years later, right, they get a hit on this John Sansing. And we've seen things like this before. Obviously, when Lucille was murdered, DNA was in its infancy. I mean, it was being used, but. not to the degree that it obviously is used today and not even to the degree that it was used back in 2013. So once they got that name, though, they still had a lot of work to do.

It wasn't like, okay, we know who it is. You know, we, we go arrest this person. But the thing that jumps out to me, Morf, and I want to get your opinion on it, is how it came out that seemingly there was very little, if any, investigation into the dealership employees. I mean, it had to have been known back then that she had taken her car to this dealership. It had to have been known that she got a ride home. How could they not have looked in to that angle? Yeah, I think those are all very fair questions and points to bring up.

And some people, you know, have looked at that and wondered. And to be fair, we don't have all the details of everything that police did. But it just seems so logical that when you're retracing her last day and who was with her, you're building a timeline, you're going to go through step by step. And had they talked to the dealership right away, maybe something in this guy's past would have elevated him as a suspect. and maybe this case would have been solved long ago. The Legos found at the crime scene ended up being a huge clue. Police had found a child's fingerprints on them,

and the child that had handled them was not one in Lucille's family. It turns out the prints were a perfect match to one of Sansing's sons. He was just five years old when Lucille was killed, and his prince being found on the Legos doesn't just show that his dad is the one who killed Lucille, it also proves that Sansing's son was actually there inside the home when it happened. This was the key to getting into Lucille's home. Lucille, a caring and nurturing woman, probably would not have turned away a child in need, or perhaps a family in need, especially if she had just been given a ride home by the boy's father. Sansing would later admit that when he gave Lucille a ride home,

he talked about his family and actually mentioned that she should meet them. Whether she actually agreed to it or not, it seems they did show up later that night, and they made it inside of her home. It seems that some of the people that do this think of the most devious things in order for their victim to let down their guard. In this case, this guy is using his five-year-old son to make his way into Seale's home and then he does this with his son right there. I mean, what kind of monster kills someone in front of their own child?

And it's bad enough killing them at all. But with your child there, it just screams to me that this guy is a monster. Yeah, it's almost like, you know, when we're going through these episodes, you're talking about levels of monsters, right? These people are all monsters. If you can kill someone in cold blood, you're, you're, a monster short and simple but then there's there's almost like there's degrees someone who uses their five-year-old son to gain entry and then commits the murder while their son is there

taking the chance that you know maybe this little boy witnesses something i mean that's that's a different level yeah it always seems like these guys that do this and guys mostly are weak and they need some kind of ploy to get the upper hand on their victims, whether it's pretending to be a good Samaritan helping them with potential car trouble, or it's, hey, look up my little boy, he wants to come over and say hi to you. They always think of ways to get their victims to let down their guard. Sometimes we scratch our heads when a person commits one brutal or heinous murder, and then never does it again. In the case of John Sansing, this wasn't the case at all. after he murdered Lucille, he kept up with his life of crime,

and he had already been on that same path prior to meeting Lucille. It's ultimately why he was already on death row in Arizona, which is why his DNA was in Cotis. Even years before he killed Lucille, he had a criminal record in the Salt Lake City area. He had already pleaded guilty to spousal abuse, as well as second and third-degree burglary prior to Lucille's murder. According to a Salt Lake Tribune interview with Anne Lampere,

a social worker in Salt Lake City who is also Kara Sansing's adoptive mother when John Sansing's mother finally gave up on him and shipped him out to his father in 1984. He was already a thief and drug addict, even at that time, and she couldn't keep him out of juvenile detention. And more of I think this, you know, kind of goes back to the conversation we were having about, you know, what did police look into at the time the murder occurred? you know, if they would have delved deep into the dealership, they would have found out, right,

that John Sansing gave Lucille a ride. If they would have looked at him at all, they would have found out that he already had, you know, quite a lengthy record. He would have jumped up a few notches on police radar. So, you know, by my way of thinking, that probably just didn't happen. happen. But the question is why. Yeah, and doing that digging, they would have found up that he

had a child and how easy would it have been to check his child's prince against the prince on those Legos. Again, I go back to maybe this case could have been solved very early on. After murdering Lucille, you might think that John Sansing would keep a low profile and stay off police radar, but that didn't happen. It didn't seem like he was afraid of being arrested and linked to her death because he continued to commit crimes in the same area. Two years after Lucille was killed, he pleaded guilty to aggravated assault, according to Jack Ford, spokesman for the Utah Department of Corrections, despite all that, he served only 45 days behind bars.

Four years after killing Lucille, he moved to Arizona where he continued his life of crime. The murder John Sensing is on death row for is very similar to Lucille's murder. The fact that it took place seven years later and in another state raises the possibility that there are other cold cases out there that John Sansing is responsible for. We'll talk about two of those possible cases shortly. But the murder that he was originally caught for and sent the death row over is the murder of 41-year-old Trudy Calabrese. Just afternoon on February 24, 1998, John Sanson called the Living Springs Church and asked to have

a box of food be delivered to his home. He told the church workers that he and his wife had four children to support and that things had been tough because even though they had both recently found employment, they were waiting for their first paychecks. The church offered food boxes to locals and those without a vehicle could give their address and a church volunteer would drop it off at their home. John's wife, Kara, was in reality employed and working at the time, which is hard to believe because she, along with John, had developed a strong craft. addiction. Alone with the kids while Kara worked, John smoked crack until Kara would come home. When she got home from work, Kara too would join John smoking crack. It was apparently the fourth day of their latest bender, but Kara was still able to go to work every day to try to get more money for drugs. When she returned home from work, they smoked the last of their recent

$750 purchase of crack together. While John explained what they were going to do when the church volunteer showed up, they were going to rob the person so that they could buy more crap. There was a big problem with this plan, though. John had given his name and address to the church. And it would obviously be known that the church volunteer was heading to the Sansing home. And following a robbery, they would know where to send police.

John, not thinking clearly, apparently decided he would kill the church volunteer. here instead of robbing them and letting them go. But this new plan still didn't make sense because the church would still have the Sansing's home address and names. So more of I'm sure you remember most people anywhere close to our age will remember. What a big thing crack was back in the day. I don't know if it still is or not. I just, I know I don't hear about it as much.

You used to hear about crack all. the time. I mean, even Whitney Houston said crack is whack. I remember that. Now, in 1998, $750 worth of crack seems like it might be a lot. But it also seems to me that smoking that much crack day in and day out, number one would lead someone to, you know, think about committing crimes to get money for more of the drug, but also. Also, as we kind of just talked about, not maybe think all the way through things. Maybe, you know, not be able to because you're so kind of messed up on the drug. Yeah, I think crack was always known as a relatively inexpensive drug that was highly addictive.

And that's why it was so popular. So I think you hit the nail on the head, $750 worth at one shot. seems like a huge amount. But one thing that was common with a lot of crack addicted people was they couldn't be trusted. They would steal from people that they loved, that they knew. And that was one of the common traits among users. So the fact that John Sansing would come up with this plan isn't surprising to me.

But what is surprising is just how many loopholes were in this plan that he didn't think of because he was probably high at the time and they made sense in his head, but just don't make sense to us because we're looking at them with a clearer head. You mean because we're not high on crack? Yeah. But, you know, what you were saying, it kind of does go along with the addiction, right? That addiction to some people grabs them so tightly that, you know, at certain times they're willing to do. just about anything to get their hands on more of that. And sadly, I mean, it kind of sounds like that's what's going on here. Trudy Calabrese was that church volunteer who showed up to the Sansing

home. She arrived there expecting to be helping a family. Instead, she was about to be ambushed. And Trudy arrived at the Sansing home, sometime between 4 and 5 p.m. She had two boxes of food with her. She took them right into the Sansing's kitchen and put them on the table. It was required for Trudy to get a signature from the person accepting the delivery. So John signed while Trudy and Kara made small talk, and their four young children, three sons, ages 12, 11, and 10, and a nine-year-old daughter were nearby. Suddenly, John grabbed Trudy and violently shoved her to the ground in the dining room. John and Kara then tied her up with electrical cords while she struggled against them. According to ABC15.com, all of the sancing children heard Trudy cry out while she was being tied up.

Lord, please help me. Seeing the kids standing there, Trudy tried to ask them to call the police for her. According to Kara Sansing statement in court records, Trudy begged the children for help, about three or four times. According to the Sansing's then 10-year-old son, John warned Trudy to cooperate,

saying, make a move, I'll hit you in the head. Trudy defiantly yelled back, shouting out to God, presumably, I don't want to die. But if this is the way you want me to come home, I'm ready. John shoved a sock into her mouth to gag her and then hit her over the head with a small bat with so much force that it snapped in half and caused a large laceration on her scalp. John eventually told the kids to go into the living room and turn on the TV. Horrified, they listened to their father. This left Trudy alone with Kara and John.

The two picked up Trudy, who by this point was unconscious and took her up to their bedroom, where John sexually assaulted her before he stabbed her three times with a knife he had grabbed from the kitchen, cruelly and brutally twisting the knife when it was inside of her. Trudy's kidney, stomach, large intestine, and colon were all perforated by the knife. An autopsy would later prove that these injuries would not have been immediate. fatal. It would have taken at least a few minutes to bleed to death. Despite the medical examiner's later finding that the injuries from two blows to the head with the club were enough to render her unconscious and never wake back up, Kara Sansing would claim that she heard Trudy and John talking

during the assault before the murder. John would also later claim that she regained consciousness. In his version of events, he bludgeoned her and then went to move her truck so that it wasn't parked in front of his house. When he returned, he said she was awake, and this is when he took her into the bedroom. According to court documents, John claimed that after beating her so badly, he decided to kill her to end her suffering, saying, I just couldn't handle seeing the condition she was in. After assaulting Trudy and stabbing her, with a sock still in her mouth, he put two plastic bags over her head and tied them shut with a necktie and more electrical cords.

She was also blindfolded, but we don't know at what point during the attack this happened. He also took the jewelry Trudy was wearing before he piled laundry on top of her body. He'd become increasingly paranoid and kept looking out the windows to make sure no one outside had seen him attack Trudy. After a while, he headed to their drug dealer's house. He was able to trade the stolen jewelry, some rings and a necklace, exactly what also was taken from Lucille Johnson for a bit more crap, which he and Kara smoked together. Some more if we've got to talk about this attack. You know, as horrible as the murder of Lucille Johnson was, the murder of Trudy was equally horrible.

And it might even be more shocking because as we talked about, all four of the Sansing children, were witnessed to at least part of this brutal attack. Yeah, I look at the children in this case as victims too. To have to see all this stuff and be part of this, it makes me sad that they had to live in these conditions with those parents and why something wasn't done sooner, maybe to get these kids out of the house. How come they were never reported for being bad parents

and these kids were taken out of that situation? A few hours after Trudy made the delivery, the pastor from Living Springs Church called the Sansing home, looking for Trudy. John answered and lied to him, claiming that Trudy never showed up with their food delivery. He also lied about his address, hoping to throw off the investigation. After hanging up the phone, John moved Trudy's body from the bedroom to the backyard. He shoved Trudy's body into a gap between his shed and the back fence, and then use cardboard boxes, old carpet, and other random items from the yard to obscure the view of her body. And I think all of this morph just shows you,

you know, the kind of the state of mind that both John and Kara were in. The fact that they would even come up with this plan is unbelievable. And even more unbelievable is the fact that they would carry it out in front of their children. And then as you just described, you know, it's almost like nonsensical in the way that he tries to hide Trudy's body. I mean, to me, it's obvious that, you know, this pair is not thinking clearly. The drugs have just completely overtaken them. Now, I don't want to blame all of this on the drugs, but obviously they had a huge effect. Yeah, the fact that he disposed of Trudy's body right there in his backyard just by covering some stuff on it.

You know, he could have buried her body. He could have taken into another location, isn't it? But to just throw it in his yard and throw some stuff on top of it doesn't seem like a master of criminal trying to cover his tracks. Just hours after her murder, Trudy's husband Rosario Calabrese filed a missing persons report with the Avondale Police Department. investigators found Trudy's truck the next day and found something that John Sansing had overlooked when he moved it. There was a handwritten note left behind by Trudy with his full name and more importantly his real address. Once they were able to search the home, it didn't take officers long to find Trudy's body behind the shed in the Sansing's backyard. She was still bound, gagged, and blindfolded

with the plastic bags still over her head inside the house. A knife was found under a couch cushion. And both pieces of the small bat used to strike Trudy were found in a box in the upstairs bedroom. It had been cleaned. Also inside the box was all the laundry that had been piled on top of Trudy for hours. After Trudy's murder and the attempted cover-up, John fled to his sister Patsy's home, confessing everything to her. Patsy was understandably shocked and freaked out by what her brother told her.

She called their dad who called the police and gave them Patsy's address, and John Sansing was taken into custody without incident. According to thedeseret.com, John Sansing's nephew, Chad, came forward and told investigators about overhearing a heated argument, where Kara Sansing warned John that she was going to tell police that he murdered a lady in Utah. He said he heard her threaten this on two separate occasions, so it seemed real to him. It's not clear if the heirs and authorities in Trudy's murder looked for any potential victims of John Sansing in Utah.

After learning more information from the children and other family members, Kara Sansing was also arrested. According to Sergeant Mike McCullough, the Sansing children were present for Trudy's murder and saw Trudy before, during, and after the attack that ended her life. We now know that the Sandsing children, Sing's oldest child had been present at the scene of two murders committed by his father between the ages of five and 12.

And you can't help but wonder, Morf, what exactly he saw and experienced as a child, not once, but twice. And what did that do to him, emotionally and mentally? Yeah, we talked a little bit about that and what effect that might have on not just him, but his siblings. So he was definitely present for the first murder and witnessed the second murder. So you have to wonder how his young mind was after those two incidents. Yeah, I can't think of anything that would be more scarring to a child than the scene we just went through.

And again, we don't know exactly what he saw when he was around five. he was present at the murder of Lucille, but we don't know how much he saw. All of these kids definitely saw and hurt a great deal of what happened to Trudy. Kara Sansing also confessed her knowledge of John's previous murder, that of Lucille Johnson. According to a press release, Kara admitted to UPD detectives that Sansing had admitted to her near the time of the 1991 murder, that he killed an elderly lady in Holiday City. And this lines up perfectly with the details of Lucille's murder. They never mentioned Lucille Johnson by name as being that elderly woman.

However, according to John Sansing, both of his children who had been born at the time Lucille was killed and his wife Kara were in the house when he killed Lucille. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, John claimed they stayed down the hallway in the living room and were nowhere near her when she was being attacked. And so with this information, I think you can see more even more clearly why Lucille probably would have felt pretty at ease in letting these people inside her home. You know, here's a guy who had, you know, given her a ride home. He worked at the dealership. And now we know he's bringing not only his five-year-old son, but another child. and his wife. I mean, that's just a scenario that I don't think most people would think of as threatening. You have a husband and wife and two small children. And I kind of think along a similar

path when it comes to Trudy. I can't imagine that she was thinking anything bad was going to happened to her, she's walking into a home. Now, it might not have been a great home. We talked about how both the parents were on crack. I don't know what the state of this home was, but you have four children inside. Who thinks they're going to be attacked right there when the wife and four children are inside the home? And for me, it just reinforces that these kind of people, especially here in John's case, use their children, their wife, their family as a ploy to get people to let down their guard. And it seems to be part of his MO. In Trudy Calabrese's murder, John Sansing decided to plead guilty, saying he didn't want to put

the family through a detailed trial. In court, he apologized to Trudy's husband, saying, if I had one wish in the world, that would be to bring your wife back. all I can do is give myself to the Lord and hope I get to live. On September 18, 1998, John formally entered his guilty plea. Just over a year later, John was sentenced to death, with the judge describing Judy Calabrese as a good Samaritan, who took great joy in helping people in need. Multiple appeals and requests for review of his conviction and sentence have been denied

because he committed the offense in an especially heinous, cruel, or depraved manner. And as we know, because his entire plan was to lure a church worker to the home to rob them, he also committed the offense as consideration for the receipt or in expectation of the receipt of anything of pecuniary value. I think that's just legal mumbo-jumbo for he premeditated. this crime. Yeah, and I want to go back to what he said in court. You know, he apologized to Trudy's husband saying, oh, you know, if I had this one wish, I'd bring your wife back. And maybe he was sincere at that point. Maybe he's, you know, off the drugs. I don't know. I'm sometimes, I think oftentimes

leery or I have a great deal of skepticism about what some of these murderers, you know, say, I don't know that they really believe it or whether it's just another calculated effort to get what they want, which is maybe a little leniency. I don't know how sorry John Sansing is. Well, to me, if he was sincere in his apology and realized what he had done with a clear mind after being off the drugs, then he would have never tried to appeal. He would have dealt with his sentence and not appeal. appealed it, but obviously he did appeal it. So, you know, I think to me, I take it as he's not

that genuine. Trudy and Lucille were like in many ways. Both were giving, helpful, and had a history of aiding people in need. And sadly, John Sansing prayed on them and their generosity. But despite the similarities in both Lucille's and Trudy's murders, there's also a big difference between the two murders. As far as has been publicly reported, Lucille Johnson was not sexually assaulted, like Trudy Calabrese was. Her death was a lot closer to a robbery gone wrong, where Trudy's was a sadistic thrill kill that also happened to have the benefit of some jewelry he could trade for drugs. According to Kara Sansing, John claimed he sexually assaulted and killed Trudy so that it would look more like a random robbery, rape, and murder. I guess in his

mind while high on drugs, it was supposed to lead investigators away from the food delivery and the Sansing home, even though he made no attempt to move her body off his property. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, John Sansing claims he just panicked. When he killed Lucille, he was there to steal from her while his family distracted her and she ended up interrupting him in the middle of his burglary attempt. He killed her, quickly stole her jewelry, and the family got out of there in such a hurry that they left behind the Legos. Lucille's children were relieved to find out that it was a stranger who killed her and not someone they knew.

Her nephew who had once been suspected must have felt vindicated, though knowing who did it didn't erase the pain of losing Lucille or what he went through after her murder. Finding out who murdered Lucille didn't heal her family's wounds. Lucille's daughter, Shirley England, told ABC News, I don't think closure is the right word because you never close something like this. It's been a terrible thing in our life. Unified police sergeant, Michael Ikemi Sharo, who led the reinvestigation until Lucille Johnson's death, wasn't satisfied with Sansing's death row status. He could have just figured that he wasn't going anywhere and left things alone.

But that death row sentence was for Trudy's murder. He wanted justice for Lucille's murder too. He wanted to see John Sansing, punished for what he did to Lucille telling the Desiret news, it was very important that we prosecute this case for the family. Oddly, despite the intention to go after John Sansing in Lucille's murder, there's very little out there as to whether that ever happened, although one report we found said that John Sansing had been prosecuted in Lucille's case. And I think it could have been easy for them just to say, well, you know, he's on death row. We don't really need to do anything.

But I imagine the family as well. Wanted at least a court or someone to say, you murdered our loved one. And it doesn't surprise me more if that we couldn't find a lot about it. You know, the guy was already on death row. There probably wasn't a real, maybe high interest in reporting on it at that point,

sadly, you often find that. when you're researching cases. There are two families and two unsolved Utah cold cases who are still waiting for answers. And some online slews wonder if John Sansing could be responsible due to the similarities in the victims. It's not clear whether the police ever looked to see

if Sansing could be connected. The first case is that of 81-year-old Bertha L. Hughes. On March 17, 1982, she was killed in her Salt Lake City home. multiple articles note that she had been assaulted before she was bludgeoned to death. The second case is of 79-year-old Jean Muir of Kerns, Utah, who was killed in her home in 1985. She was stabbed reportedly dozens of times.

Some reports say 100 times and robbed. Her car had also been stolen, but was found parked at a nearby business a few days later. Now, these two cases may not be the work of Jim. John Sansing. But if they're not, then that just means that there was another person out there targeting elderly vulnerable women in that area. If these two women are victims of John Sansing, then that means he was in his teens in early 20s when he murdered them.

What we do know is at the very least, John Sansing is right where he belongs. So, you know, he can't hurt anyone else. More if I think as we wrap up this case of Lucille Johnson, John Sansing was a monster. I mean, there is no way around that. Even if he had committed the murders without involving his family at all, he would be a monster. But the way that he committed these murders seemingly having no thoughts about involving his family, having his young children be, you know, in the home or witness or hear some of the things that he did, I mean, it just really blows me away. And you can't leave out Kara in this whole thing. We didn't talk about her as much as we did John, but she was definitely involved. And she ended up being convicted and getting a life sentence, which I think is very just We know she took part in Trudy's murder, and if John was telling the truth, she was present for Lucille's murder as well.

So she deservedly was put away for life. And I wonder what happened, again, to the kids in that situation, what they witnessed, what they went through. I look at them as victims, too, and what happened to them? Their parents went to jail, were they adopted by family? How did they grow up? Did they have problems as a result of this? that's sort of a ripple effect from from these kinds of crimes yeah and there's you know really probably little to no reporting on them and i wouldn't blame them for not wanting to be

reported on you know they went through hell and i'm assuming they don't want to be connected to their mom and dad knowing what they did can't imagine they would want to really give interviews or anything like that. The ironic part of both Lucille's and Trudy's murderers to me is that they seem like the types of people that both would have forgiven John Sansing for what they did because it seems like they were very religious and believed in forgiveness. So to me, that's just a takeaway on this story. But sadly, they're not here to forgive him because he took their lives.

Well, at the very least, they seemed both to be very selfless people. Both Lucille and Trudy, they were into helping others. And does it make it even more tragic that, you know, these were great people who were preyed upon? I think in part because they were so trusting and helpful. I mean, if Trudy's not delivering food to people. and neat. She's not murdered. And that's just a sad fact. Yeah. And in Lucille's case, had she gone to a different garage or waited until the next day to bring her car and who knows, maybe any little

thing might have changed the outcome in her case, she might not have ever crossed paths with this monster, John Sansing. But I think you could look at a lot of cases and see where, you know, just one different decision by maybe a victim. You know, if they decide not to go here on that day, if they decide not to do this, not their fault, absolutely, but if they had decided to do something different, then maybe they don't run in to the monster. And that's a scary thought because they're not doing anything wrong. They're making the same types of.

decisions that we all make every single day. And maybe I want to go to, you know, the grocery store today. Well, is there someone out looking for victims? And that continues to scare me, Morve. We keep talking about it and have been for so many years. The fact that there are just people out there looking, trolling for victims is a very scary thought to me. And very scary that's.

some of them are even willing to use their families, their children to commit their crimes and get victims to let their guard down. Yeah, and that's what really struck me about this case in regards to John Sansing and care as well. I mean, that's maybe even more shocking, right, that a mother would go along with allowing her children to be inside of the homes when, you know, people are killed. I just don't get it. I don't get it.

But that's it for our episode on Lucille Johnson. If you love the show, but haven't done so yet, take a minute, go out, give us a rating, leave a review. Also, keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the podcast really helps us out. If you want to find us on social media, we're on X with the handle at CriminologyPod. You can also find us on Facebook by going to facebook.com slash criminology podcast. and you can join our Facebook discussion group, Criminology Podcast, Discussion and Fans.

So that's it for another episode of Criminology. But Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So for Mike and Morph. We'll talk to you next week. Take care of everyone.