Criminology - Q & A Episode

Episode Date: June 8, 2019

We have a Q&A episode for this week while we are at CrimeCon. We've been wanting to do one for a while now and thought CrimeCon week would be perfect. We didn't want to leave our faithful listeners without something to listen to. Join Mike and Morf as they answer some very good questions. These range from case-specific to personal, from Jon Benet to stranded island-type questions. We talk about updates on GSK as well as the new issues cropping up around the use of forensic genealogy to solve some of these cold cases. You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology An Emash Digital production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage matched limited by state law, not available in all states. Marketing is hard.

But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host, you seek it out and download it, you listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention?

You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Lib Syn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one, across thousands of shows to reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Lib Sync Ads. Go to LibSinads.com. that's L-I-B-S-Y-N-AdS-com today. Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. I'd like to welcome everyone to episode 64 of Criminology.

I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. So Morf right now, at the time that this episode drops, you and I are at CrimeCon. So we thought we would do something. a little different. We wanted to do a Q&A type show. So we put out to our listeners, hey, what do you want to ask us? And I think you got most of the questions, but started to, you know, put together these questions and now we're going to do this episode on it. Yeah, it was pretty interesting to see a lot of the emails and people on Facebook and Twitter leaving messages and

questions they had. And they did ask us anything. There's all kinds of crazy stuff in there and even a couple voicemails. So it should be fun. So I should ask you more of how you doing? Not so hot. We just had a nice Memorial Day weekend as a family, but the air conditioner is on the brink of not working. So it's a little bit warm here in the Morford household. So that is like DefCon 5 for me, right? Summertime, you're, you're, you. You're, You know that the air conditioning is not working the way it's supposed to, or it's out completely. If it's out completely, I'm raising it above that, even though there's nothing higher. Because there's just something about it for me.

I cannot stand to be hot, super hot. I can't sleep. I get cranky. It's just, you know, heat and myself do not do well together. I'm in the same boat. I like to have that nice cool air, have a nice cool drink and relax. it's hot. I just, I don't feel that. The same thing happened to you. Not too long ago, didn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I had to have a guy come out and do some work on it. So you mentioned we just got out

of Memorial Day weekend. Obviously, we're taping this very early because we'll be at CrimeCon. So if you and I are in different parts of the country, I think everybody knows that. We've talked about a little bit. The night before we are recording this, Dayton, Ohio, which is where I live, We had some very serious tornadoes. I mean, more serious than we've had in a very long time. And again, it got up this morning. I don't even know yet what the actual toll is. You and I are taping pretty early in the morning.

So it was a, it was a strange night. The kids and my wife and I, we were in the basement all hunkered down with the dogs. And luckily, it missed the, you know, the suburb where we live, but a lot of, a lot of damage for sure. That's really sad news to hear that. And this is the time of the season when it happens. And hopefully everybody's okay. And they can rebuild. Yeah, I'm just, as far as I know so far, I have not heard of anybody being killed. I know there were some people that got hurt. Hopefully nobody got killed. So before we get into the Q&A episode, let's, uh, let's give out some new Patreon support or shoutouts. We've had a lot of really good support. And you and I always talk about

how amazing that is. We had Linda Bredberg, Jody D. Stefano, not Cato Caelin. So definitely wants us to know this is not Cato Caelin. Not OJ's buddy. Nope, not at all. We had Ruben G. Emmy Caraveo Moraz. That's a very cool name. And last but not least, Eunice Clark. So again, like you and I talk about new support. That's amazing. It always blows, us a way when people make that decision, hey, we love what you're doing. We want to help support you in doing that. That's awesome. Yeah, it really goes a long way and we can't thank you enough. And if you'd like to help support the show, you can visit patreon.com slash criminology. So I say we jump right in. We had a bunch of questions and we'll go down and riff on the answers.

And the first question that we have is right, right out of the game. more, this is a very tough question. It is, you know, what are our theories, you and I, what are our theories on the John Bonae Ramsey case? And the reason why I say this is tough is probably the same reason why you and I have not done this case yet. You know, I haven't done it on any of my other podcasts either. I mean, it's a behemoth of a case.

It was very sad that this little cute girl lost her life. But once you get into it, right? There are people that, I mean, they're entrenched on one side or another. And I will call one side being that the family had something to do with John Bonnet's death. And I'll call the other side that they didn't, right? That it was a stranger. And then even more so when you drill down within size. the family, there are people that are very adamant that it was this person, this person,

you know, Patsy, it was the brother. You know, you really, people get really upset about that case. Yeah, I think people are very passionate one way or the other about this case, whether it was somebody in the house or outside. It seems like there's two different camps where that's concerned. And each group is very passionate and sort of argument. with the other. I see a lot of online fighting, it seems like, to see who's got the right theory. And it's one of those ones that's a head scratcher, I guess. When this case first happened, it was very

uncommon. And of course, we've had some high-profile cases since then where people came into a house in the middle of the night and abducted a child. And that's become more of a thing that we hear about. But back when this happened, I remember hearing it and saying, there's no way. someone would break into somebody's house and in the middle of the night and steal their daughter. It just, I couldn't believe it at the time. I didn't know how you feel about it. Well, when you say it's become more common, has it become more common or has it become more known? That, so I was kind of thinking about it this way, right? In the 70s, 80s, even into the 90s, 2000s, whatever, when you looked at a case like this, from the place. From the place.

Lisa's perspective. What's the natural inclination to look at the family first, right? You always look at the people that are closest to the victim first. I think that's been natural throughout time. My theory is that not, not with this case, but with what you were saying, morph is now that we are, I say we, but now that a lot of these cases are being solved through, you know, some of the, the forensic genealogy and things like that, we're finding out that it really was a stranger. And to your point, without that information, police would have never, you know, it wasn't like these people in a lot of cases were even on their radar because they were complete strangers. This is really one of the most bizarre, bizarrest cases out there.

You've got a ransom note that just happens to match the amount that John Ramsey was supposed to be getting in a bonus. And you've got a person coming in and out of the house who was playing Santa Claus. And he told John Bonnet allegedly that he was going to pay her a special visit and then come to find out his wife had written a screenplay, I believe, in which a little girl disappears on Christmas night. It's just so bizarre that the elements of this case. It's one that I can't wrap my head around. Well, then I think for me, there's two other pieces to it. Number one, she's found inside the house, which I have always found to be very strange and that I think a lot of people take to mean it had to have been somebody in the house because a stranger would have, what probably taken her but then you know for me it's really the the pageant angle and i think that's

what caught of a lot of people's attention certainly those were the pictures that were splashed up on you know the television and the newspapers did someone who either followed the pageant scene had their own child you know in the pageant did they become fascinated with john benjamin That's the one thing I've always wondered because she was up on a stage, right? And when you look at those pictures to me, that is a thought that's always been in the back of my mind. Was there someone out there that had seen her multiple times and had become fixated on her? Maybe not a complete stranger, but not a friend to the Ramsey's. That's, you know, again, these are just theories. I don't really know that I have an opinion, a definite opinion one way or the other on this case.

Yeah, I'm with you. I think I'm on the fence. I go back and forth looking at different views, and I can't really land on one side of the fence. I do think that no matter what, I believe the case was mishandled from the very beginning. They allowed people to come over. They allowed the Rams to invite their friends into the house when it should have been treated as a crime scene. And I think from there, things just spiraled out of control. Yeah. And I think you and I are the same, right? Without the proof, it's hard to say one way or the other, how we feel because I feel a certain

way when I start to get some proof. But you're right. The one thing that I believe everybody knows or the one thing you can really say about this case is that police could have handled it much better. And if they had. And we're not talking like Scotland. And the Gottland yard type stuff here. It was pretty basic police procedural type things. You know, what difference would that have made in the case? I think that's a big question.

Yeah, I mean, just the number of people going in the house, you've got them allowing John Ramsey to go down and search for his own daughter. And he's the one that finds her and grabs her up, which, you know, I can't blame him for doing that. If I saw one of my children hurt or dad, I'd scoop them up as fast as I could too. but unfortunately that's why you don't have parents being part of the investigation. I just think from there things just really got out of control. Yep, I agree. So that last question about John Bonnet was from Rebecca Jane, who's one of our big online supporters. We thank her for that.

The next question is from Jennifer Blakeney, who happens to be one of my good podcast friends from Corpus DeLicti, and she asked, what is it about the podcast medium that you enjoy? what's your big enjoyment out of this, Mike? So this is more of a question from a podcaster, right? So I started podcasting in 2016. You and I started what, morph in 17? 2017, yeah. Yeah.

So we've been doing it for a little while now. And what I really enjoy about it is that there's a lot of control for me. in doing a podcast, right, with editing. This is not doing a one hour comedy special on stage in front of, you know, 10,000 people. I don't know if I could do that. I'd like to think I could, but I don't know if I can do that. But I can talk into a microphone in my basement, right? I can do, you know, all the research that you and I do.

That part's fun. but the production is something that most people could do. You know, I'm not hitting 400 feet home runs off of a major league pitcher. I don't, I couldn't do that. But I can sit here and talk into a microphone. Now, what becomes very important is how are you doing it, right? What stories are you picking? What type of research are you doing?

Because there are a lot of podcasts out there. And there are people that just want to. sit and, you know, kind of gloss over a wiki or another thing like that, that's cool. However you want to do it, that's not what you and I do. I mean, that's not what I do on my other podcast either. You know, we are really more about the research and telling the facts of the case and, you know, trying to get into some background and some reasons why and things like that. That's what I enjoy, you know, being able to tell a story the way.

the way that I want to tell it. And when I say I, I mean you and I. I like that. Yeah, I agree with you on that. It's when you're creating something, you want to be able to put out something that you like that you're proud of, that you put effort in for to make it as polished as you can.

And even if you listen to us early on and our first couple episodes we ever did to now, I think we've improved. We're always trying to improve. But that's the goal for me is always to trying and make it better and come out with a show that I think we like that people will listen to and appreciate. And, you know, one of the things that we do a lot of on this show is we have interviews with different guests, whether it's police or victims or survivors or whatever it is. We bring that to this to help make it a little bit different. And that's not to say that podcasts that don't have guests, you know, aren't good podcasts.

There's a lot of good ones out there. But I think we just do things a little bit differently to put out the product that we think we're going to be proud of. And that's what's great about podcasting is you can put out one that you do in your basement in 10 minutes if you have 10 listeners or you can put out the biggest, most polished one you can with a million listeners. It's sort of anybody can do it if they put the time and effort in. But, and this is the big but, it is a lot of time and effort. And I think anybody that has gotten into podcasting, even at a small level, you know, even just starting out a what they feel is going to be a very small show, they've told me, no idea how much work it actually turned out to be, you know, once they, once they got into it.

When I say, yeah, we're sitting here talking into a microphone, it is a lot more than that. And it's hours-wise is a big chunk of a week for sure. Yeah, I don't think people realize how much time goes into like a one-hour episode between the writing, research, editing, recording, interviews. I mean, it comes out to be a good chunk of time during that week. And again, with podcast, you can just read a wiki page and be fine with that if that's what you want to put out. Or you can go as deep as you want as long as you want to have monsters, two, three-hour episodes. There's sort of up to the person that's putting out the podcast.

And that's what's great about the medium is that we can each do our own thing. Yep, yep, nope, really good, really good. So the next question is from Michelle Brunson Starling. And it is, how did you and I meet? It actually says, how did you in the other mic mean? There's a lot of mics floating around. Yeah, between this show and true crime all the time, there's plenty of mics and there's other mics out there too, the podcasting thing.

I started out listening to True Crime all the time, and I said, wow, I really like the show. I really like Mike and Gibby's coverage and their conversation. It was not over the top in your face, and it was professionally done. And I just said, wow, I really did. really liked the show and I started listening and we started corresponding a little bit. And then you mentioned that you really were interested in the Zodiac case. And I was really interested in doing a podcast about the Zodiac. And I think it started from there. Yeah. No, I think you're absolutely right. It was kind of one of those things where it was all, I don't want to say fade, but you know what

I mean? I've said it a bunch of times. Zodiac has been, you know, one of those cases for me ever since I got into true crime that really just sparked my imagination. I couldn't get enough of it. And then when you and I started talking to find out how big you were into Zodiac with the website and, you know, the mountains and hours of research that you had done, it just seemed perfect, right, to do a podcast on Zodiac. And then, you know, we, we got into Golden State, which was unbelievable. and that's how it started.

And it's, it's been, what, two years now? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, hard to believe.

So our next question is from Michael Wheelan, and he's the host of Unresolved, another one of our podcast friends. He asked, if you had to pick one alcoholic beverage for life, what would it be? One alcoholic beverage. Am I stranded on an island?

I always like the questions that where I'm stranded on an island. But somehow I have a unlimited supply of, one alcoholic beverage. Yeah, a truck washes up on the beach and it's loaded with with whatever you drink. Well, to be honest with you, I'm not a huge drinker anymore. I used to be in college. I drank too, probably too much. Now that I'm in my 40s, I don't drink as much near as much as I used to. But if I had to pick one, I think it would be a good beer. And I'm not talking just, you know, your run of the mill, grab something off the shelf, but, you know, like a craft beer or something like that. I enjoy those.

Me, I'd have to say that same thing. I was a big drinker when I was younger. I don't drink that much anymore. I have been drinking a lot of beer lately, and it's Miklob Ultra. That's because you have two small kids. Yeah, I think that might be something to do with it. I think when you have small kids, you have to. drink after, you know, when you get a chance or you will go crazy?

For me, it's the, it goes with the summer. It's hot. That is true. The cold beverage and the hard alcohol, I just don't get into it anymore like I used to, but beer, I'll definitely have a beer here and there now. And I will, you will see me, when this is out probably this episode, walking around New Orleans someplace, probably with a hurricane in my hand, because I do like those. and last time I was there I drank several of them.

So that's something that I will be drinking. So you'll see more stumbling down Bourbon Street probably. If it's like it was last time, you will, and I might be doing some crazy stuff like I did last time, some stories, which I don't want to say on air. But the hurricanes are, the hurricanes are coming these giant like 44 ounce cups. Oh, yeah, yeah. And they're just, you take one with you and you sip it and you. And by the time you're done, you're feeling pretty good. So there was a time where I would have seen, I would have said single malt scotch.

I was really into single malt scotch for a while, you know, like your Glenn Livitz, your Glenn Fiddix, things like that. But not so much anymore. Moderation. Yeah. Yeah. Cheryl Olson and Alex White. They both asked the same kind of basic question.

And it's a research type question. And they said that, you know, it's commonly said that seriously. killers peaked in the 70s and 80s, is there any hard evidence to back this up? They've wondered if the stereotypical college co-ed victim is a smarter target, harder murder to get away with. So instead, predators are going after the drug addicted, the vulnerable sex workers. If you throw in other vulnerable type populations, such as indigenous women, homeless, it seems like there is an astounding number of missing people. And then, like, they put in their question, even if these people are found, a lot of times

the deaths are blamed on drug or alcohol abuse, which they could be, but it also could be, you know, a serial killer that is much smarter going after a different type of person. that they believe no one is going to miss. I read somewhere once that if you wanted to get away with a murder, kill a cab driver or a sex worker, because for some reason they're just random. Nobody's paying attention. You see them all over in certain areas.

And they are typically victims that, you know, they don't stand out, I think, is why that was written the way it was, I read that. And if you think about it, if you look at those two groups of people like cab drivers, it looks just like a simple robbery. And unless they have technology nowadays that records the person that's in the cab, you know, even going back to the Zodiac case, somebody shoots a cab driver in the back of the head

and takes some of the stuff and leaves, it's very random, very hard to catch that person. And with sex workers, I think they sort of live off the grid a little bit and they keep to themselves and they're not always in constant contact with people. So I think those groups are always ones that are targeted by killers, serial killers, and probably going forward, I would think that they'd always be a group that would be targeted for those reasons. I don't know what you think. Well, to me, when you're talking about sex workers, that's always been a group that's been targeted. You can go back to, you know, what, Jack the Ripper. And it's for the reason that you mentioned. And a lot of times sex workers are purposefully trying to stay off the grid.

They're not in contact with family and things like that where a lot of people know where they are, where they're supposed to be at a given time. But going back to the question, right, to 70s and 80s, when you look at that, it does kind of look like that was a peak time, which is really. interesting if you think about it because the DNA technology was not there, right, in the 70s and 80s, early 80s for sure. Now, to me, it's very hard, you would think, to get away with certain types of crimes that you could get away with 30, 40 years ago. Yeah, plus now I think that you've got the big brother element, you've got cameras and streetlights and their surveillance in all kinds of

stores. And I think some of the crimes that were committed back then, if there wasn't an eyewitness, that was the end of it. And as you mentioned, with no DNA and some of the other things they use nowadays, it was hard to see a lot of these keys that solved. So I think there were a lot more serial killers back then really racking up victims. And I think with technology now, it seems like that might have curbed some of that. Well, yeah, that was really the thought that I had. So I don't know that it's, we don't have less serial killers types of people. I don't think that at all. What I think is that the technology and law enforcement, they're catching these people a little bit earlier so that, you know, it's one murder, two murders, three murders. I think it's a lot

harder in today's environment to be a serial killer that's going to murder 15, 20, 25, 30 people. I just think it's going to be a lot tougher. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law, not available in all states. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered.

I wonder what's emergency. We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, blood and water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. All right. So the next question was an email we got from Jamie Jay.

she asks, what kind of music do you listen to and what are some of your favorite bands? Well, we know more. Your favorite is Flock of Seagulls. You've told us that before. I'm still astounded by that. That's my favorite song, not my favorite band, but I ran by Fluck of Seagulls is number one on my playlist. Either one.

You should never say that out loud, whether it's favorite band, favorite song. That is a great song. You should never admit that to anyone. I've told you that. You continue to admit it to the... the whole world. No, I'm just messing around. If that, if that song comes on, it's, it's catchy. It's very catchy. I'm not going to say that I'm going to buy it off of iTunes or anything like that, but if it came on the radio, I would probably not turn the station just because of how catchy it is.

So for me, my tastes really have switched. I go through these phases. You know, when I was in high school, I had a rap phase that probably lasted two years. The one thing... Were you breakdancing too? No, I wasn't break dancing. No. The one thing that's pretty much been constant throughout my life is country. I like country music.

I've always liked country music. But I do go through phases where I really get into classic rock for, you know, periods of time. I may listen to the doors for months on end or, you know, whoever, the eagle. Goals, journey, bad company, things like that. See, I grew up in the 80s. I was a teenager in the 80s, and that's when heavy metal and rock were just dominating the airways, and I loved it. You know, I grew up, had the long mullet and everything, and I listened to Motley

Crew, Guns of Roses, Metallic, all that stuff. So I always have a special place for that in my heart. But my favorite music is British classic rock, like the Yardbirds. Zeppelin, the Stones, Bad Finger, Sweet, the Hollies, all that kind of stuff. I love that, and I can't get enough of that music. I listen to that all the time. Okay, three of those bands I've never even heard of.

Who? The finger? No, Bad Finger. Oh, bad, I've never heard of Bad Finger. You've never heard a Bad Finger, Baby Blue? No. Baby Blue? Oh, my gosh.

I might have heard of the song, but I have never heard of the band Bad Finger. What was another one that you said? I hadn't heard of the Hollies. I've heard of the Hollies. I've heard of the yard birds. Zeppelin? Obviously Zeppelin and the Suns. Sweet.

I never heard of them either. Ballroom Blitz. I have heard of that song for sure. And I know you've heard of the Stones, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, but I don't like the Stones. See, I love the Stones. A lot of people ask me why I don't like the Beatles.

I do like the Beatles. I'm just not crazy about them. Yeah. But I love the Stones. I'm not a huge British band person like a lot of people are i like zeppelin but i really don't care for the stones that much and that's you know kind of almost fighting words to a lot of people um the Beatles they're okay i like some of their songs but i again i'm not a Beatles fan per se i would rather you know listen to elvis or sam

cook um you know go i'd go back even just a little bit further into the 50s i like a lot lot of 50s music, buddy Holly. And I think that's just because, you know, my mom listened to a lot of that when I was younger. All right. What else we got here? We had Morgan Murphy. And Morgan's one of our Facebook group mods. We talked to Morgan quite a bit. She says, how much do you guys really like me? And obviously that was a joke. We love. Yeah. Yeah. She's one of our greatest supporters and she's always on there helping us get people situated and get into the group. So we can't thank her enough for that. She also asked how Paul Holes takes his coffee.

I don't know. You and I have met Paul Holes a couple of times. We've hung out with him a little bit. The problem was when we actually got to meet Paul every time it was Paul's in demand. By that point in time, Paul was already in high demand. So it really wasn't like we could. take Paul out to dinner or sit for an hour and drink coffee. He had to be somewhere. By that point, he was, he was already pretty well known. Now, I have been with him when he's had a couple

drinks, and I have to say it wasn't coffee he was drinking. So I can't tell you how he takes his coffee or if he even drinks coffee, but he does drink other beverages. What I will say about Paul Holes is he is a very cool guy. I will say that. I really like. Like, him, I enjoy being around him. You know, you would pay money. And people do, right? He's got his own podcast now. But if you could just sit at dinner with him and hear some of his stories, you'd pay money to do that. That's the type of guy he is. The other thing that Morgan asked us about, you know, she wanted to know what our thoughts were on other podcasts. And she specifically said, you know, podcasts like small town murder. So, Morr, if you, you've,

listened to a lot more true crime podcast than I do. Before I started podcasting, I listened to true crime podcasts all the time. Now, there wasn't near as many, right? In, in early 2016, there weren't that many true crime podcast. It's probably exploded exponentially. I don't even know what the number is since then. So once I got into doing my own. own two podcasts. And then once you and I started this one, I really didn't have time to listen to True Crime Podcasts. So there's a lot of them, especially some of the new ones that I'm not that familiar with. Now, I'm familiar with the hosts because we've either, you know, met at CrimeCon or we talk through social media, but I just don't get a chance to listen to their, their podcast. The other

thing about that for me is I don't want to be tainted by. hearing an episode done by somebody else on something that I may cover because I'm worried that what they're saying is going to seep in and that's going to seep into my research. Yeah, so I am subscribed. I'm trying to think how many podcasts I have. I'm probably subscribed to about 20 podcasts altogether, but like you, I just don't have the time to listen, which is the worst part of hosting a podcast is not being able to listen to podcast as much as I'd like to or I used to. I try every day, whether it's doing housework or running to pick my kids up at school, I try to listen to a show a day, if I can, an hour a day. But I'm one of the people that when

they're working or writing or researching or getting ready for an episode of my own, I need total silence. So I don't have any radios or TV or anything going on. I need silence. And I can't listen and that's a lot of the time that that I would be using to listen to some of those podcasts. Yeah. So I do listen to some podcasts. It's just not true crime. And again, like I said, some of that is not wanting to hear a, you know, takes on a case that I may do. The other thing, though, I think more for me is when you're researching true crime, as much as we are, day in, day out, it takes a toll on you because you are essentially reading newspaper articles, books, whatever it may be, but it is constant death, murder, mayhem. So for me, when I choose to listen to a podcast in the car or something

like that, I usually go funny, you know, just to, you know, Gibby and I always say it's like cleansing. you got to cleanse your palate a little bit. So I'll go Adam Carolla, one of his podcasts. How did this get made? I don't know if you've ever listened to that, but I like that. It's where they kind of take a movie and make fun of it. You got to lighten up the mood once in a while when you're doing so much true crime. It does.

I mean, it gets very dark, right? You're in a dark place for extended periods of time. So you've got to lighten it up. and whether that's a funny podcast or, you know, for me, a lot of times that's Netflix or Hulu, just putting on some really dumb comedy that I like that's going to make me laugh a little bit. I have to have that. Morgan also asked us if we would be mad if she didn't make it to CrimeCon. I've already told her absolutely we would.

I know she's not coming, but she should be there. I think everybody should be there, but I know everybody can't make it. Well, I'm hoping we see a lot of listeners there. I'm looking forward to it. It's fun. It's a lot of, you know, we're just sitting there and we're like doing anything, but we're like always like up and like talking to people and moving around when we're there. So it's, you get tired after, you know, three days. But I'm always excited to have people come up and just start talking true crime or or talking about their favorite podcast. And then really meeting other podcasters too is really awesome. So it's definitely something I'm looking forward to. Yep, it's pretty cool. All right. The next question is from Kate McCormick, and she wants to know what our opinions are on the Alford plate. So I know we haven't done it, but on True Crime All Time Unsolved, I did like a three-parter

on the West Memphis three. And like John Bonnet, that's a tough case to do because, number one, people know a lot about those types of cases. And number two, everybody has a very entrenched. opinion on guilt or innocence. I shouldn't say everybody, but a lot of people do, right? A huge portion of the listening audience does. So in that case, there were Alfred pleas, right, for Damien, Jesse, and Jason. I don't know exactly how I feel about the Alford plea. I still don't know the truth about that case. And it bugs me, right? You really, you really, you're really. You're

read one thing and you think, okay, there's no way that these three boys could have done it. You read something else and you think, ah, that doesn't make them look great. You know, it's one of those cases where you can really go back and forth. In that one specifically, I feel like they spent quite a bit of time. It was 17, 18 years, I think it was in prison. I think the prosecution knew that if they were to take them to trial, again, it would be almost impossible to convict them just because of the amount of time that had gone by. I mean, witnesses change their story, witnesses die. A lot of things change in

18, 19, 20 years. So for me, the Alford plea from their perspective, I would definitely have taken it. But there's a good and bad pro and con, right? About it. The good thing is you get out and you're not going to be subjected to another trial, which could go your way or could not. The bad thing is, technically, you are a murderer for the rest of your life. And I'd like to think that I would never taken Alfred plea if I was innocent, but at the same time, if I spent years in prison and I needed to get out and wanted to get out, I'd probably, you know, it'd be hard not to do that if the opportunity of Rose. So I don't really have an opinion on it beyond that, but I understand why it's there and why some people do turn to that. And I do think it's case specific because in that case, right,

Damien was on death row. Jason was not. Jason didn't want to take the Alford plea because he felt like I'm not guilty. I'm not going to say I'm guilty. But he also didn't want them to put Damien to death. So obviously when you have a death sentence, that's a much different thing than staying in prison for a couple more years until you get your trial. Not that that's a great option either. So Catherine Haynes, really good friend of the show of all shows, actually. This one's, she says is for me. Do I have any friends not named Mike? And you know what's funny. I don't have a lot of friends named Mike. I know that sounds strange.

It just so happens that I do podcasts with two people named Mike, but most of my friends are not named Mike at all. It's funny. There does seem to be a lot of podcasters out there named Mike, which is a common name, so there's bound to be that many. Well, very, very common for when you and I were born, right? If you look at that stretch of time, that was a very very common. very common name. I think it helps, too, having nicknames where Mike Gibson is Gibby and Mike

Morford myself is Morph, and then we can sort of, and you're just Mike. So you haven't, you don't have a nickname, do you? Yeah, it's Fergie, but I just don't use it very often. Oh, that's right. People do call you Fergie. And I think it helps just because if somebody says furgy or Morph or Gibby, you can sort of differentiate it. And there's still people, I still get a kick out of it, that'll say morph. I heard you talking about your assless chaps the other day. And I'll be like, that's not morph. That's gibby.

Yeah. People still get everybody confused a little bit. But how can you not? I mean, you know, it's a lot of mics. All right. So the next question is from Valerie Power. And I'd like to read this in the way that it's written because I think it's really cool because she's shouting out to us from Ireland.

And it still blows me away that we have listeners all over the place. but her question was, how do ye guys record? Do you link up via video chat somehow? You are not geographically close, I think, and how do you split the research? Again, I'm reading this as it's written, which is really cool. But essentially, she wants to know how we are producing the show, making the show, and putting it out there, being that we are in two different locations. Yeah, so it's different than what Gibby and I do, right?

Gibby comes to the studio and we sit across from each other and we record. The way that you and I do it because I'm in Ohio and you're in New Jersey, New Jersey, is we used to do it. Well, we still do it via Skype, right? You and I are talking on Skype right now. We used to record the Skype audio. And that was not the best option, right? Sometimes the audio quality wouldn't be what we wanted it to be.

it was kind of sometimes determined by the web, right, the internet speed or or how stable it was. So what we did is we changed it up and now we each record our own audio and then I put it together before I, before I edit. Not that sexy, I guess, for lack of a better term. But she did talk about, you know, the reach of, of course. criminology and, you know, where our popularity lies. And obviously the United States is number one. But our reach outside of the U.S. is actually pretty substantial. I think more if it's probably somewhere around 22 to 24 percent of listeners are outside of the U.S. And it's awesome that a little

podcast that you can do, like we talked about out of your basement can go worldwide. And you have people from Australia, Germany, Ireland, just all over the place that are sending you messages and saying, thanks for doing the podcast. And to get that support from all over the world, this blows my mind whenever I see it. And it's really cool. Yeah, it is very cool. And I think when you look at the countries, I don't have it right in front me, but it's, it's pretty much stays in this line where I think Canada is usually number two, Australia is usually number three. Sometimes those will flip flop, I think. And then you'll have a Scandinavian country, you'll have like Sweden or Denmark or something jump into the top five. Those folks

are eight up with true crime. I can't believe for being such small countries, the number of listeners that we have in those countries. So Aaron Vaughn Poulston and has a question. And this one's really for you, Morph. And he talks about with your connections, and this is going back to the Golden State Killer case, were you in the know that an arrest in that case was close before the debut of the podcast or was it purely coincidental? It's weird.

A couple of people asked me that. And I say the same thing. now I didn't know there was an arrest coming. I was hoping there was one coming, but that's not a case where they said, hey, don't tell anyone, but we're about to arrest somebody. That wasn't the case at all. And I think when we started doing that season, we talked a little bit about what we would do after the Zodiac case.

And it was funny, when we wrapped Zodiac up, we said, whatever case we do is probably not going to be as long as the Zodiac won the next season. And then, lo and behold, it's like one and a half times the length of of Zodiac. Yeah, I think we said we'll probably never have a case that we'll do as many episodes as we did on Zodiac. Yeah, and it was, it was awesome that we did because of everything that happened, the arrest and everything, and that's why we went so long. But the only insight I had was just simply the night of the arrest before it was announced. You know, I exchanged messages with somebody that said, you know, we made an arrest, but you can't say anything yet.

and don't say anything until we give you the thumbs up. And then the rest is history. And that's how that went down. But I didn't have any kind of advance notice. They wouldn't tell a civilian that, hey, there's an arrest coming in this case. Well, and it's definitely, you know, it's pretty obvious, I think, if as you listen to the episodes, right? So you and I started out thinking, what? Maybe 10 episodes, I think is what we thought.

It's kind of an arc. And then I think as, as well, we were. we got into it, we realized it was going to take longer. But it was around episode 8, 9, might have been 9 when the arrest happened. That really kind of changed the whole thing. Because now we've got to do an episode on the arrest. Then, you know, then we ended up doing a couple. But that really changed the whole kind of, we had to rewrite and, and changed the arc of the, of that season. Yeah, it was a monkey wrench, but it was a good monkey wrench. It was. Yeah, definitely was.

So the next question is from Craig Stevens via email and he wants to know, what are you guys looking forward to most at CrimeCon? So I think for me, and you and I have talked about this, it's always getting to meet the fans. That is the best part. I don't even go to a lot of the cool stuff that they have at CrimeCon. Number one, because we're usually sitting on podcast row as a lot of the sessions and things

are going on. But really, that's the only reason I go to CrimeCon is to be able to meet fans and say, hey, and put faces to names and things like that. Now, as it relates to New Orleans, I'm really looking forward to the food. I love the food down there. I'm going to go, you know, get some bignets at Cafe Dumond. You know, I'll get some po-boys, maybe a muffaletta. I just really like the food down there. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of stuff to do in the city itself, but, you know, getting into the crime con event, that's so crazy and hectic. There's so much going on with that that, for me, I get tired at the end of the night. I'm like, I'm ready for bed, which is in New Orleans, that's when things are just getting hopping is when I'm getting ready for bed. But

there's a lot to do, and it's all the events there, the breakout sessions and the experts they have talking and other podcasters and stuff. I just really love to soak in that entire three days and, and just meet people and talk to people. It's just a really fun time. Okay. I think the next question we got from Ellie Myers through email is a very good question. And I've heard this from a couple of people more.

What are your thoughts on the latest news regarding Jedmatch, closing up access to police investigating crimes? So I was actually just emailing with somebody on this the other day. I think it's a big blow to law enforcement and families and victims out there that are depending on this. When you see the help that that's done, when you see somebody like the Golden State Killer being identified, a horrible monster, when you see people that have killed children like April Tinsley, whose case we covered, you see the faces and the reasons why this needs to. to be a thing. And the fact that it's not making it impossible for law enforcement to use it, but it's making it a lot harder. And I think that's very unfortunate. And I hope there's a way that can be fixed soon. And people will opt in that use that site opt in and allow their

profiles to be used by law enforcement because the amount of good that's coming out of it is just, it's too much to ignore. So the next question is from Catherine. and I hope I'm saying your last name close to write. Vakarchic, Catherine Vicarchik, has anyone revealed what evidence was found in the Iran's home, Joseph D'Angelo's, and they want to know whose parents were and what was known of them, especially his mother. So it's been kind of tight-lipped about what was found in his home. There's not a lot of info coming out on that, and I think if this thing ever gets to trial, we'll find a lot of that out. but there's been a little bit of rumors here floating around of what was in there,

but nothing substantiated. As far as his parents, we did do an episode in season two of DeAngelo's background. And he did have an odd childhood. He came from New York and made his way out to California. His family was in the military. His father abandoned the family and supposedly started a new family and had children that he named the same names as his first family's children. So a lot of weird stuff going on there.

And then, you know, Joseph DiAngelo and his siblings and mom wound up on their own. She remarried out in California. And that's a lot of stuff still to come. And I think a lot of that will come out at the trial and we'll find out more about that background. All right. Charlotte McDougal asked us questions more if that her kids ask Siri. So the first one was, can you beat box? And for me, that's a definite yes.

I figured you could since you had that rap phase. I can't, so that's a no for me. She also asked, what is the meaning of life that's quite a bit deeper? I don't know the answer to the question of what is the meaning of life. For me, it somehow is intertwined with family, for sure. I'm still trying to figure it out, but I have to agree with I think it's got something to do with family and making the most out of your time together. And then she wants to know where is Elvis Presley? You've got to know that.

You're a big Elvis fan. I've always thought Hawaii. I just figured he was living out his days in Hawaii. I think, you know, he cut his hair. He probably had plastic surgery, facial reconstruction, something like that. That's what I believe. I think it would be cool if he was living in Vegas and working as an Elvis impersonator. How great would that be?

That actually would be pretty cool. And we've got another question here from Ben Affleck. fan for life. And I don't know if that's a guy or girl, but they want to know what are some of your favorite movies. So for me, more if I always start off with the godfather, one and two or are two of my favorites for sure. I've always been a big Star Wars fan. Love Star Wars. Could do without some of the ones that, whatever, phantom menace or, you know, those were okay. Some of the new ones are really good, but I've always been a big Star Wars fan. And then I would go. with like Shawshank Redemption, you know, Unforgiven.

There's just some movies like Pulp Fiction is one of my favorite movies. Yeah, some of those ones you just named, I really like, I like Pulp Fiction. I like Seven and American Beauty and the usual suspects, three Kevin Spacey movies that I'm a Kevin Spacey fan. I was, I should say, not anymore, obviously. Right. But I like some of those movies. and they sort of tarnish them for me, which is sad to say. But I also like comedies.

I like horror movies. Anything by John Carpenter, Halloween, The Thing, The Fog, any of that stuff. And I also obviously love Zodiac. Oh, yeah. One of my favorites. Love that. My family and I just watched the newest Halloween the other night from 2018 from last year. What did you think of it?

I thought it was okay. I thought it was okay. It had some pretty big actors. it. Obviously, Jamie Lee Curtis is back in a different role. I mean, what was that? 40 years? Yeah. It's crazy. That much time has gone by. And for me, the original, you just don't mess with perfection. And the first one, the original was perfect for me. So I don't care for any of the remakes. I would say this one was better than, you know, some of the other ones. Like number three, with the masks and stuff, I still don't understand what that one was about. Season of the

Was it season of the witch? Season of the witch? Yeah, that was a very strange one for me. See, and I thought it was, I thought it was a good movie separate from Halloween. Like, it could have just been its own movie without being linked to Halloween. But I actually didn't mind that movie. I just wish they didn't try and tie it into the Michael Myers aspect of it. Gotcha.

Gotcha. All right. So Alyssa Chance wants to know, are there any cases or topics that you won't or can't cover? and why. And for me, there's really no cases that I can't cover. There are some cases that I've been reluctant to cover. I think we talked about one, you know, John Bonae for me is a case that, number one, I think would be is very tough to cover, not saying we couldn't do it. You know, I found that out doing the West Memphis three. It was a very tough case to cover. Number one, there's a lot of people out there that know more than you because they've spent it's like zodiac

with you morph there there are people out there that have spent years of their life researching west memphis three or john bennay or you know what are some other cases like that it's even even i was going to say even green river that we just did sure a multi-parter on yeah there's always going to be these experts out there that just they have so much knowledge you. it's hard to satisfy all of them with with what you can do in a couple episodes. Well, yeah, you can never satisfy everybody, right? That's, that's one thing that you learn doing podcasting. There's always going to be somebody that's upset with something that you've covered

or the way that you've covered it. But for me, I, you know, there's really nothing that I would say is off limits, you know, whether it's covering a school shooting or, you know, kids that that kill. I mean, there's really nothing that I would say I wouldn't cover. I just think that we're pretty sensitive to how we cover things. And as long as we do it in that same type of way, I don't see why we can't talk about. If there was a case that we just couldn't do justice for or couldn't do what we felt was an adequate job, I think we would steer clear from that. I don't know what you think, Mike.

No, that's actually a very good point because there are. we get a lot of suggestions from people about cases. And when I get the suggestion, I'll look into them. And sometimes you just realize there's not enough out there information wise to do an episode on a certain case. And so, yeah, maybe you could string two or three together in an episode. But like you said, if there's not enough information out there to really tell the story and to be accurate, then we wouldn't do it.

The next question is from Riley C, who wants to know, and this is to both of us, if you're going to start another podcast, not true crime related, what kind of topic would your new podcast be about? All right. So this is pretty easy because I have a couple of new podcasts in the works. One is a movie podcast that Mike Gibson and I are doing. And then the other one is something that, that I'm going to be doing on my own.

And it's more around business, brands, products. It's the same type of stories that you and I tell more for that, that Gibby and I tell. It's the same research. It's the same story, but there's no murder. Well, there might be some murder,

depending on what the, the company is or the brand. It's more about the iconic brands that we grew up with and, you know, why did we love them so much and what happened to them if they're no longer around that that type of thing that interests me so that's something that i've been wanting to do yeah that's that's pretty interesting and and i think movies or music something along those lines i'd be interested in you're gonna have a flock of seagulls a podcast a podcast just focused on a flock of seagulls that would shoot

straight to number one hey they're they're they're still big over over in the UK, I think so. You keep telling yourself all that about fuck of seagulls. I also love to do a fantasy football show. You know, I play fantasy football. I love it. I've suffered the last few years. I've been on a downward spiral,

so maybe I should never do a podcast giving advice to what people should do with their fantasy football teams. Yeah. I actually like fantasy football quite a bit. Yeah. The one thing I will say is a fantasy football podcast, is not going to translate well, I don't believe, to the bulk of our current listeners. Yeah, I'd agree with you. I think most of our current listeners on this show probably aren't

fantasy football, but hey, I bet you there's a few out there. Oh, there's no doubt. There's a lot of men and women that play fantasy football. So, Chavon Callahan asked, what case got you both interested in true crime and why? Hmm. For me, it was, I loved watching Unsolved Mysteries when I was a kid, and I just, it blew my mind as a teenager. I think I was 16 or something like that when the show came out. But it boggled my mind that there were just cases out there across the country that just didn't have answers and that these people were still searching for it. I always wanted to know that an update of a case to see who the person turned out to be.

And that's what really hooked me. And before that, I don't know if you remember when I was, a really young kid that Leonard Nimoy search in search of show. Do you remember in letter? Yeah. I used to love that when I still remember the Amityville horror episode from when I was a kid that scared to crap out of me. But just my mind just wanted to know about some of these mysteries that they were talking about on TV and that's what started it for me. Yeah, I would agree. For me, I don't think I can just name like one specific case. But like you, I watched a ton of unsolved mysteries, American justice.

Bill Curtis, I love that, City Confidential, any of those shows like that back in the day. I think they were all on what, A&E or whatever station it was. I could sit and watch those all day. The other thing that I will say that really got me interested in true crime

was, I don't know if you remember this more, if on HBO, Dr. Michael Bodden had those autopsy shows. Did you ever watch those? Oh, yeah. I remember one where, again, I'm trying to visualize so long ago that I seem to remember him standing over table. He's the guy with glasses and a mustache, if I remember correctly.

And I think in one of the episodes he was standing next to Cyril Wecht, who we just had. Yeah. Yeah, and that was a great experience having him on to share his insights. But I do remember those cases, and the clues that they were able to find was always blew my mind that They could come up with these things and determine how people died and sometimes who was behind it. And I think I was pretty young. I was probably too young to be watching that show. But I do remember that one standing out as one that kind of piqued my interest for sure.

This one is from Aria Stark who asked, can you tell him a big Game of Thrones fan? Yes, I can. I love that show. And she wants to know, I assume it's a she. do you know and get along with a lot of the other true crime podcast host? And I think the answer to that is very easy. Yeah, we do know a lot of the podcast hosts and we get along with all of them. One of the things that you and I morph have done on criminology, more so than I've done

on any of my other ones, is we've done a lot of swaps, right? Add swaps with other podcasts. And I think anybody that's listened to criminology from the beginning will remember. that we're telling you about this podcast or that podcast and you know that's just us working with other podcast hosts and saying hey you know we'll do a 30 second read on yours you know you do a 30 second read about ours it's it's podcast hosts getting together nobody's making any money off of that it's just everybody kind of helping each other out now you may listen to one and not like it but at least now you know about it hopefully you'll try

it and see what you think. Yeah, I think it's a really good way to find new podcast. If you're a listener out there and you're looking for a new podcast, what better way to get a recommendation that you can go check out? And it sort of helps everybody and everybody that listens to podcast. It gives them more options too. But I think when we meet up with people at CrimeCon or we're going to be at Chicago this July, we always have a good time talking and the time gets away from you. The time shoots by so quickly because you're hanging out with other podcasters, picking their brain, talking about different cases and different experiences. And I think for me personally, I don't know how it's been for you, but 99.9% of everyone I've dealt with and talked to

in this field have been very supportive and very friendly. Oh, I would echo that. I've talked to podcasts that are bigger than the podcast that we have. And then, I've also talked to a lot of podcasts that are smaller, right? I mean, True Crime All Time is a fairly big podcast, but it's not as big as last podcast on the left. And I remember, I think it was the last Crime Con, I was talking to those guys and they were as nice as they could be. I mean, just telling us how they did things. We kind of went back and forth. Okay, this is how we do it. This is how they do it. Um, very cool. All right. Griff Claypool wants to know what case frustrates you the most because it's still unsolved. He says for him, he would go with the colonial

Parkway murders. And that is a frustrating case. That's a case that, you know, we covered on true crime all time unsolved. But I got to, I got to throw a Zodiac in there, you know, that I just, I need to know at this point. I need to know who it was. And, you know, I have my hunch. Everybody asked me on social media who I think it is. I think it was Ross Sullivan's my favorite suspect. But one way or another I just need to know and I just I don't know that's going to happen but I can hope yeah actually I think it's a pretty easy question for me because I would go with that to zodiac Sharon shale silver reached out and she said hi guys I love your podcast I recommend it to everyone as a dog and animal lover I really appreciate that you guys give an update or an outcome

on what happens to the animals and some of the cases you cover I always want to know and very few true crime podcasts do that my question is what pets do you guys have and tell us a little bit about them. Thanks so much for being awesome. So before we say that, Morph, one of the things that I have learned over whatever, two and a half years of podcasting is that we have a lot of pet fans, right, as listeners. And a lot of them have said to me that they're used to hearing about murder. I don't want this to be misconstrued, but people are pretty, used to that. You know, in this day and age, what people really have a hard time with is hearing

about animals being hurt. I've heard that from many people that say, you know, that upsets them as much, if not more than hearing about the details of some of the murders. And, you know, I know on some of the episodes, we've gone as far as to kind of give a disclaimer. that we're about ready to talk about an animal being hurt, but that's just come from, you know, a number of people saying they can't, they can't take it.

They want to, they want to go 15 seconds forward through it. It touches me because I'm a big animal fan myself. I have, my family has two cats, a dog. We've had rabbits and other dogs, other cats,

and, you know, going back to when I was a kid, I had a duck. So, uh, you know, I've had that feeling for animals for a long time myself, and I know my wife does and we're big

supporters. And it lumps right in there with kids. Crimes against animals and kids, I think, are some of the toughest things to hear because they are the most vulnerable and they can't protect themselves. So anytime you get into where animals or kids are being harmed, it just strikes a nerve with people. No, it does. But then like I got an email last week from a listener who just started listening and said, why in the world would you say, okay, we're about ready to talk about an animal being hurt when you've already talked about, you know, five people being murdered or whatever it was. And I had to explain that

people tuning into a true crime podcast. They expect that, right? They expect to hear that. They expect to hear that someone is going to be murdered. And here are the details of it. But when you're talking about animals, it's a, it's a different story for sure. So let's talk about what we have. You mentioned a couple cats, a dog. What are they? I've got two cats and a beagle dog. And that's it for now. You know, I've trimmed it down a little bit. But in the past, we've had several cats and rabbits and everything else under this one. So I have two dogs. I have a, 10-year-old chocolate lab whose name is Bodie about the laziest dog you could ever imagine. So we bought, so we got him about nine, ten years ago when we bought a lake house.

And this was a place that we were going to go to on the weekends. We wanted a lab. We wanted something that was going to jump into the water and swim around with the kids and all that. The dog is deathly afraid of water. he will not catch a frisbee. All he wants to do is lay on the couch all day long. I'm not kidding you. The laziest dog you've ever seen. But he's a very good dog. You know, doesn't bark at people, doesn't bite. I think he's too lazy to do any of that. And dogs usually dogs are very friendly,

very once they connect with you, you've got a friend for life. Our dog pickles is. is great with the kids, loves my wife, has grown to love me. I wasn't always a dog person, but she's great with me too, and she loves hanging out with the family. And just sometimes she's lazy like your dog. Sometimes she's running around with the kids. Sometimes she's bite me, messing around. Cats are hit and miss. They're very finicky. We had two cats years ago that sort of broke the mold. And the cats we've had since then have been sort of duds there, the typical, all talk to you and you can pet me on my time on my schedule. Oh, yeah.

Versus, you know, the overly friendly cats that we had in the past. So my wife and I always joke that we've got a couple duds right now as far as the cats. And that's why I've never been as big a fan of cats. Not that I don't like them, but I do like dogs more. So the other dog that we have is about a three or four year old little white Maltese female. Her name is Bailey. And she's a really good dog. Now, like a lot, she's very small, like, you know, four, five, six pounds, whatever.

Like a lot of small dogs, she's a barker, which drives me crazy. And she will nip at people sometimes. But she's the type of dog that, you know, sleeps in the bed, follows my wife around wherever she goes. She's just that type of dog. Those little dogs are always good for security. They make a lot of dogs. They are. And the big one, literally, if a gunman bust in, he would just lay down and try to

to get his belly rubbed. That's what he would do. All right. So as we're wrapping this up, Morph, we have a couple of voicemails that we want to play. And the first one's a funny one. He wants to know who would win in a fight hand-to-hand, mono and mono, no weapons. Between you and I. Hey, Ferg and Morph. It's Paul Kong from Burlington, Ontario. I had a question for you. ask me anything. If you two were to have a fight, no weapons, who would win? I'm just curious. Okay, cheers. Bye. Well, I used to do some boxing, and I think I can handle myself pretty well. That being said, I am so out of shape that if I don't knock somebody out within like 30 seconds. So you're not going, you're not going 10 rounds is what you're saying. Yes, it's not going to be a 10-round

fight. We'll wear another. So, I'm either going to knock someone out very quick. quickly or I'm going to pass out and get a beer. Yeah, so I was really big into Taekwondo when I was younger and into college and things like that. But I like you, I feel like I'm so out of shape. This is, this is how bad it is. I'd been over the other day to pick something up. And when I raised up, my back hurts so bad. And I thought about it. I was like, okay, what if I'm trying to defend myself on the street, I turn one way and I'm locked up. I can't do nothing. I got to get in better shape, too. Well, when you injure yourself turning to look at somebody or do something, that's a sign that you shouldn't be fighting. And I think I'm in the same boat. So I shouldn't be

fired. The answer to that question is I don't think Mike and I are in the condition to fight each other or anyone else. So it'd probably just be a draw because we're so out of shape. Yeah. All right. So here's the, uh, the next voicemail, and this will wrap up to show. Hey guys. Nathan here from Montana. Big fan of the podcast. I'm just curious if you had any plans to cover the John Bonnet of Ramsey murder or even maybe just give you two cents on the case up to this point. It just seems like it's gained a lot of attention after Burke Ramsey, her brother was interviewed by Dr. Phil not too long ago. All right. Keep it up. Thanks, guys. Bye. And this caller took us back to where we started off this episode, talking,

some John Bonnet Ramsey and wanting to know if we ever plan to cover that case. And maybe we can talk about some of the other things we might want to do at some point. But I think we talked a little bit about it in that we'd have to have access to so much stuff to really be able to tell it accurately and do the case justice. Yeah, I'm not afraid to take on the John Bonet Ramsey case at all. But like you said, it would need to. be a very, very thorough research job. I'd love to get some good interviews and things like that, and then I would probably do it. Yeah, and I think, you know, there's a lot of cases we've discussed

in the past doing in the future. I don't know if we ever specifically discussed John Bonnet, but obviously that's one that everybody has on a list someplace, I think, where if it could be done, you would want to do it. But there's other cases coming up that we really think. think that we can do justice too. I know we're going to be doing a big one on the McDonald family murders. Oh, yeah, Jeffrey McDonald. Yeah, that's such a interesting case. And years later, decades later, people are still wondering what's the truth in that case. And I think if there's a case where we can do it justice and we have enough material to present it, I'm happy to do something like that. Yeah, and I think for me, it's always been a mix. Right? And I think, for me, it's always been a mix,

right, I've never just wanted to run through the cases that everybody knows. I really like, and I think you do too morph, to do some of these ones that very few people have heard about. It also means probably less podcasts have covered them. You know, when you talk about like the, a man of hatchet murders or, you know, some of the ones that we've done recently, I think have been lesser known. And a lot of people have really liked them. Yeah.

And to your point, doing those ones that not everybody has heard about, it's refreshing to bring out new stuff. But then there's these classic cases like we did Green River or Zodiac or Golden State Killer and the McDonald family murders. Some of these big cases, some of them solved, some of them not solved, that people want that refresher on that maybe haven't been mentioned in a long time. So I think that's what's great about some of the episodes we do is we can really mix it up and put different stuff out there. Yep. Yep. But that's it. That is it for our Q&A episode. You and I, who knows what we're doing, you've probably had four or five hurricanes by this point when this comes out.

But hopefully you do not get lost on Bourbon Street and there's a search party for you the next day. I agree. And maybe if I have a hurricane. or two, I might start talking about some of my past New Orleans experiences if anybody meets up with me down there. I might spill some of the beans about some of the things that happened to me in the past. We'll definitely, we'll definitely talk about, you know, crime con. We kind of do this every year, right? Build up to it a little bit. And then usually when we come back that first episode, we'll talk about it. And then there's really no crime con talk for, you know, nine, ten months.

Yeah, it's exciting time of the year. It's one of the things I look forward to. And hopefully this people have this nice episode out while they're at crime con they can listen to not too deep not too they don't have to put the thinking cap on and we can have a little bit of fun yeah we definitely wanted to get something out for everybody especially there's to be a lot of people traveling probably on sunday um this will be a real easy episode to listen to in the car but if you love the show please take a minute go out give us a five star rating you can also give us a review, it goes a long way, as does all of the people that are telling their friends, their co-workers about the podcast. That's, uh, it's invaluable. And if you want to find us on social

media, you can find us on Twitter with the handle at Criminology Pod. We're also on Facebook. Just search for Criminology Podcast. And you can also join our Facebook discussion group, which is Criminology Podcast Discussion and Fans. All right. So we will be back with, you next Saturday night with an all new episode of criminology. Until then, I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is more. And we'll talk to you next week. Stay safe, everyone. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company

and Affiliates. Price and Coverage Match. limited by state law, not available in all states. Marketing is hard. But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Lib Syn ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one, across thousands of shows to reach your target audience in their favorite

podcasts with Lib Syn ads. Go to Lib Synads.com. That's L-I-B-S-Y-N-AIDS.com today.