Criminology - The Devil's Den Murders

Episode Date: August 10, 2025

On Saturday July 26th, 2025, officers from the Arkansas State Police were notified that there had been a double homicide in the park. The bodies were identified as forty-three-year-old Clinton Brink and forty-one-year-old Cristen Brink. The two had been hiking with two of their daughters, who are seven and nine years old, at Devil's Den State Park. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss these horrific murders. The police had a description of the attacker as well as his vehicle and looked at all the video and photos they could find from that day. They arrested twenty-eight-year-old Andrew McGann on July 31st in Springdale, Arkansas. Do they have the right man and enough evidence to put him away?   You can help support the show through Patreon. We'd love to connect with listeners on social media. We are available on the following platforms: Facebook - Facebook Discussion group - Instagram - Threads - X Formerly Twitter - Blue Sky - Twitch - Tik Tok  Criminology is an Emash Digital production hosted by Mike Ferguson and Mike Morford. 

In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency? We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, blood and water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 371 of the criminology podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Mr. Morford, how you doing this week, buddy? I'm doing pretty good. How you doing? I'm doing great. My oldest daughter is graduating from graduate school actually later today.

We're taping in the morning. And so it's a, it's a cool thing, man. She's been in school for a long time. And it's a big accomplishment. Now that time goes by. I just went to my daughter's first high school volleyball game yesterday. And it was weird being in high school with my daughter there. So that time really goes by fast.

It does. It does. So you got to cherish it, no doubt about it. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Anita Erlin. and Sarah Brecken. So some great new support. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much for that support. It really helps us out for anyone else that would like to. You can head over to patreon.com slash criminology to get started.

All right. We're diving right into this episode. And this week, we're discussing a case that many listeners may have seen recently in news headlines. We're talking about the case of the devil's den murders where two people were murdered. at Devil's Den State Park in West Fork, Arkansas, news continues to break since this all happened so recently. But the good news is that the suspected killer in the case has been apprehended. While there still are some unanswered questions, there's a lot of information that we do know about. At around 2.30 in the afternoon on Saturday, July 26, 2025, officers from the Arkansas State Police were notified that there had been a double. homicide in the park. The bodies were identified as 43-year-old Clinton Brink and 41-year-old Kristen Brink. The couple had been hiking with their two daughters, who were seven and nine years old,

at Devil's Den State Park. The family was new to the state, having recently moved from South Dakota to Prairie Grove, Arkansas, and they decided to explore what the area had to offer. The park, being just 12 miles away, seemed like a great choice for a summer family outing. Sadly, their trip was cut short when they were attacked. Clinton and Kristen were stabbed to death, and it was an incredibly bloody scene. Their girls luckily were unharmed physically. When they were located by another hiker, they were still about half mile into the 2,500-acre park. The girls told the hiker what happened, and after getting to a safe spot with them, the hiker went back to find their parents. He ended up calling 911 to report the crime once they were able to get to an area

with cell phone service. two young daughters were able to tell police what happened and give them a basic description of the killer. Washington County prosecutor Brandon Carter told CNN all the information that were working off of started with two little girls. The witness, the most horrific thing that you could ever imagine. From the few details that have leaked out to the public, we know that the girls saw their father being stabbed in the chest. Then Kristen told the girls to run. As far as they could. As they ran, they heard Kristen talking to the man, who neither of them recognized and asked him why he was attacking them. Then their mother started screaming, the girls kept running

until they couldn't hear the sound of their mother screams. And more, if this is just an absolutely horrific situation. You know, you have this family who really moved quite a ways. you know, South Dakota to Arkansas. And that's a, that's a big jump. They're trying to figure out, you know, hey, what's around? What can we do? A state park seems like a great little family outing to take the kids on.

And then it just turns into an absolute nightmare. And I can't help but think of not only what the parents went through, but what these two little girls went through. you know, actually seeing your dad being stabbed in the chest and then hearing your mother screaming while you're running away because that's what your dad told you to do. I mean, it breaks your heart. Yeah, it's very sad and, you know, horrific the details of what they must have witnessed. And it's, you know, a shame because this family was just out, minding their own business,

having fun in a place that they thought would be fun and a good time for their family. And to find themselves being attacked and having to have their little girls run off, it must be a horrifying way to die, to know what's happening and to know that what's going to happen to my daughters. Because I'm sure that was probably the last thing that went through their minds. Yeah, but like most parents in any situation, it seems like, you know, they were looking out for their kids first and foremost. You know, how do we get them away? from the situation knowing that it may not end up good for us.

I'm sure that day when they went out, maybe the biggest worry they may have had is, do we forget anything? You know, are we going to encounter snakes, something like that, nothing like this. So,

you know, probably something they never would have imagined when they went out through that day. Right. Do we have enough cold drinks in the cooler? You know, that's, that's probably one of the biggest words.

they have. There were other people hiking and camping in the park that day, but no one witnessed the murders. Once authorities had been alerted, visitors began to notice that something was wrong. Even then, a double homicide was the last thing they thought it happened. Bobby Davis, who was at Devil's Den on July 26th, told Five NewsOnline.com, it was very obvious that something was going on, and we didn't know what. I thought maybe somebody had an accident on a trail. Maybe. Maybe they fell or something like that. Another camper in the area, Christine Davis, told the news outlet, the truth came as a shock saying, you feel guilty, really, for being here.

And more of I can see this happening in a lot of different situations. I mean, here, we're out at a state park. You hear someone scream. I mean, what is the first thing that is going to go through your mind? I doubt for most people it's that they're being attacked, being stabbed. You know, you think, oh, they've turned an ankle, they hurt themselves somehow and they're screaming out in pain. Then when you find out what really happened, I think just like what Christine said, there's

going to be some guilt there. Yeah, that thought of knowing that you were in the same area hiking and you weren't able to do anything to help them probably would cause some guilt. And I think also the surroundings, the habitat, the trees, the growth probably would have made it harder to see anything and hear anything. So, you know, it might have been a case where this attacker felt he had them on an isolated spot where nobody else would be able to see or help. The suspect was described as a white male with a medium build who was wearing sunglasses and a black baseball cap. So no eye color was given. He was wearing dark pants, fingerless gloves, and a long-sleeved shirt with the sleeves rolled up.

It was also noted that he had a backpack with him. He probably blended right in with regular hikers and campers in the park, which has multiple hiking trails and campsites. The suspect was spotted driving out of the park and getting on State Highway I-70 in a four-door black sedan that investigators believed was a Mazda. that had its license plate covered and other identifying information like the make and model

by some kind of tape. This was later revised to be a Kia Stinger when another witness came forward to say that they saw the suspect as he left the trail. He still had what looked like blood on his face when he got into the Kia. Investigators asked for cell phone pictures and videos

as well as any footage from Go-Pros. there are no surveillance cameras anywhere in Devil's Den State Park. There's also no cell phone service in much of the park. Surveillance footage from a home near the park did capture the small black car heading away from the area, but it didn't clearly show who was driving. People being in the area, not necessarily seeing anything. I think the police might have still been interested in these gopros and things like that because a lot of times those people out there are using those things.

So maybe the police thought they captured something even without knowing it. And I think they wanted to review the footage that people had out there because it might reveal some clue that that person missed, but their recording equipment may have caught it. Yeah. I mean, I don't think they were thinking that they were going to, you know, capture the, the attack or the murder or anything like that.

But could possibly. someone have captured the killer while they were walking, and you want to get as many faces on camera as you can. Despite their murder investigation ongoing and the killer being uncot, people were still let into the park after the murders. Sidney Turk, a visitor from Texas, recalled arriving about an hour after the Arkansas State Police were notified of the double homicide. The heavy law enforcement presence made her a little nervous,

so she tried to figure out what was going on. She told CNN, we asked three different park rangers if we were safe, and if we needed to be worried about anything. And two of them not only told us we were safe, but directed us to different trails to continue hiking. All Sydney was able to get from officers was that an air of the park was an active site

and that there was an emergency they were taken care of. But she had no idea a murder suspect could have been roaming the trails. She said of the situation, crazy. They let us continue hiking, even though they hadn't found the guy yet. I think they should have told us that there was a dangerous situation and that we should leave the park. Authorities released a new photo of the suspect taken from behind, showing a man wearing a hat, a black long-sleeved shirt, and a backpack. Investigators have stated that the photo was taken by a witness who was standing behind the suspect. He actually stood out so much that the witness felt compelled to take the photo.

And I think I'm right there with Sydney. I would be a little upset to find out later that I was, you know, allowed to hike in this area where, you know, possibly a murder suspect was still there. I get it. The police can't come out and say everything all the time. But maybe a little heads up, a little warning, give people a little bit of information. so that they can make an informed decision, right, about whether they want to continue the hike or get back in their car and go home, which is what I would do, right, if I had that information. And I'm thinking the police probably didn't want to cause a panic and have people running crazy

through the woods and trying to get out to their cars and get out of there. But at the same time, you know, this guy hasn't been caught. how do they know he's not going to attack someone else that could lead to more violence, more deaths. And, you know, I think those people have a right to be upset that they weren't informed to that. According to CBS News, a statement from family members of the Brinks noted that they died heroes protecting their little girls.

This led many to believe that the suspect was trying to abduct one or both of the girls and killed Clinton and Kristen simply because they were. in the way. However, investigators have stated that while a motive is unknown, they don't think this was an attempted abduction of either of the children. Investigators noted that Clinton was the first person to be attacked and determined that Kristen was killed when she tried to help her husband. As Clinton struggled with their attacker, Kristen rushed their children toward the car. Major Stacy Rhodes, commander of the Arkansas State Police Criminal Investigation Division told CBS, the mother did not return all the way to the car with the kids.

We believe that the mother took them to safety and then returned to help her husband. According to CBS News, authorities revealed that whoever was responsible had likely sustained an injury while attacking the couple. The murder weapon has only been described as a knife. No further information has been given. The suspect was at large for four very long and terrifying days. Investigators were over one. with tips from across the United States.

Campers and locals were on edge, worried that a dangerous killer might still be in the area. Thankfully, it didn't take long for an arrest to be made. 28-year-old Andrew Began was arrested just before 5 p.m. on July 31st at Lupita's beauty salon and barbershop in Springdale, Arkansas, about 30 miles north of Davils Den State Park. According to Adriana Ruiz, who was working,

working at the salon that day. McGahn refused to sign in on the wait list at the front desk. The barber had been working to cut his hair for about five minutes. When authorities arrived to question McGahn, he had cuts on his hands. His black Kia Stinger was parked outside. He agreed to let investigators look inside,

and they spotted what looked like blood. He was handcuffed and walked out of the salon without incident, despite being mid-haired. The Kia was transported to the Arkansas State Police Troop, L headquarters, and Loll. For further analysis, immediately after his arrest, the salon closed for the day. McGahn's hair wasn't even swept up off the floor.

In case investigators determined they needed it for any kind of analysis. No one in the community wanted to see the Devil's Den Killer go free, not even on the technicality. that his hair wasn't collected. So when he's arrested, Morp, you know, he has cuts on his hands.

They find what appears to be blood in his vehicle. My thought about this attack is that, first of all, it's close up, right? Anytime you're using a knife, it's a very close encounter. How could that person,

the attacker, or not walk away from something like that with at least some blood on them, probably covered in blood. And also, a lot of times these frenzied attacks with a knife result in the perpetrator being cut themselves, right? When you're stabbing with a knife, a lot of times people's hands slip down the knife.

They get cut themselves. So we're in the struggle. So that doesn't surprise me at all. Yeah, we don't know the severity of the cuts on his hands, but, you know, he's got him and he's driving the same kind of car that they're looking for. He's reasonably close to this area. You know, I'm curious. I don't really know how they stumbled upon him in that hair salon, whether it was a tip

or just checking out cars or just happened to spot his car. But, you know, it's a good thing that they did. Find him there, pick him up, take him out without him doing anything else to anyone. So who is Andrew McGahn and what's known about him? Unfortunately, there's not a ton of information out there on him yet, but nothing that we know points to any kind of motive. In 2015, McGahn graduated from Fenwick High School, a private Catholic prep school in Oak Park, Illinois. While in high school, he played football, rugby, and baseball. Four years after graduation, he moved with his parents to Bixby, about four and a half hours away from Oak Park.

He managed to stay out of trouble with the law, because as far as anyone could see to this point, McGahn has no criminal record, and he passed a strict background test when he obtained a teaching credential. Since McCann was arrested in the middle of a haircut, it might seem that he was trying to change his appearance so he could stay on the run without being recognized. but Major Rhodes explained ABC News that you chalked that up to the fact that school starts next week. McGahn had recently been hired at Springdale Public Schools and was set to start work when the upcoming school year began. He had asked the barber to keep most of his hair long, enough to cover his face. So it does seem he wanted to perhaps not be identified by possible witnesses.

There was no hair in the composite sketch. and no hair mentioned in the description, released to the public, and in the photo of him from the back, a hat was covering his hair. It's not clear that cutting his hair would have done anything to alter what witnesses had actually been able to see that day. So getting ready for the school year may actually make sense. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work

and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency? We just walked in the door, and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020,

blood and water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. McGahn holds an active teaching license in Texas, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. He seemed to kind of bounce around from place to place, staying just long enough to get into trouble and leaving before he could face any real consequences. He graduated from Oklahoma State University, Tulsa, with a bachelor's of science in elementary education in 2022. During the 2022-2020-200-school year, McGahn taught fourth grade at Donald Elementary School in Flower Mountain, Texas. According to Sierra Markham, who some was a student in McGahn's class there,

she told CBS that McGahn was pretty cold and pretty disinterested in his students. She also mentioned that he was very touchy with the girls in his class and was acting inappropriately with them, having them on his lap and making comments to them and keeping them back from recess. For what another parent had explained, he called special lunches. She found out all this when her son came home crying and told her that he heard McGahn tell a girl, if you were older, I would love to marry you. And I think everybody probably just cringed at that statement. I mean, we're talking about a guy who's teaching fourth graders,

telling a girl, if you were older, I would love to marry you. A fourth grader. I don't know what is going on with some of these individuals. Does it make it worse somehow? that this guy was a teacher. And to me it does. I guess it's because my wife is a teacher, my dad, my stepmom, they were teachers. So I've grown up my whole life around teachers.

And I always held teachers in such high regard, looking at them as kind of, you know, role models and shapers of young kids. We put a lot of trust. in teachers, you think, you know, you're sending your kids to school. And when you find out that a teacher does things like this, I don't know, it just hits hard. Yeah, these are people that are put in place to take care of your most precious commodity, your children. And as we mentioned, he did pass a background check, but to hear these disturbing accounts, inappropriate things he's doing, letting little girls sit on his lap, telling them he would

marry them, having special lunches with them. It's a lot of red flags popping up and, you know, tells you there's something going on here that's, that's not normal. Lindsay can't pull yet, another parent with a son in McCann's class in Flower Mound, told NBC news that her son came home one day and told her that his teacher plays tag at recess every day with the girls and only gave candy and other special gifts to the girls in his class and not to the boys. Kyle Swanson, whose son was in McGahn's fourth grade class in Texas, told the AP news. McAnne was just off-putting and that he wouldn't really look at or speak to him. He called his first time meeting McCann a strange interaction, according to CBS News.

McCann was placed on administrative leave in the spring of 2023 due to complaints of poor classroom management and poor professional judgment. McGahn resigned, leaving his class with a substitute teacher for the rest of the year, and the internal investigation into his conduct was closed. One school administrator in an email sent out to parents wrote, While our investigation did not find any evidence of inappropriate behavior with a student, we did find his class. master management and professional judgment to be below our district's expectations. After resigning in Texas, he moved out of state and onto Oklahoma. During the 2023-2024 school year, he was a fifth grade teacher at Spring Creek Elementary in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma.

From the summer of 2024 until May of this year, McGahn was a fifth grade teacher at Spring Creek Elementary School in Oklahoma City. He resigned from the Sand Springs Public School District in Oklahoma, in May before moving to Arkansas. Because there were never any charges against him, McGahn's record was clean. When he went on to apply at other districts, everything looked fine with his background check.

And his teaching certificate, Broken Arrow Public Schools spokesperson Tara Thompson told the AP News, there were no disciplinary actions taken against him during his time at Broken Arrow Public Schools and nothing in his background or reference. reference checks gave cause for concern during the interview process. News of McGahn's activities around children as a teacher as well as the double murder. He's accused of understandably angered parents.

Lindsay Poliak, after seeing news of his arrest, told NBC News he had no business being around our children. And Sierra Markham told CBS News, we were literally dropping our kids off to a monster. the fact that he was allowed to continue teaching is what blows my mind. And I could see why parents would be outraged after they find all of this stuff out. I think the problem is that while a lot of suspicion surrounded him seemingly at every teaching stop he had, there was no disciplinary action really taken against him, right? There was nothing on him.

his record. And I don't know that that's all that out of the ordinary because we've seen it in other lines of work as well. You know, how many cases have we done involving nurses who turn out to be killers? And you find out that there was all this suspicion surrounding them at this hospital and then this next hospital. But they kind of either left on their own or they were pushed out, but those suspicions didn't follow them onto their next job because there was really nothing on their record. And I think it's something similar here that we're looking at with McCann. And that's a scary thing.

Yeah, the one thing that jumps up to me is the way he's moving around is that teachers so much. I know teachers might move from school to school for a better opportunity or maybe something, you know, they want to teach a different kind of class, whatever it is. and there's reasons to move. But, you know, to me it just seems odd that he would move over and over and over again, one job to the next. And if you're the next place that's hiring him, you know, I would wonder, is that a concern for you?

Did they ask him, why are you moving from school to school to school? And are they reaching out to these previous places he's teached and asking, you know, for a reference, you know, why did he leave there? And what kind of teacher was he? So, you know, I'm wondering if that was done here. because, you know, we talked about the red flags or disturbing things that he had said and done. The problem with background checks, and this may vary state by state, but, you know, when I was working, when I was managing people, hiring people, I would get called a lot for background checks.

And at least where I live, there were certain things that you could say and certain things you couldn't say. So they may have done background checks at every stop. But when called, maybe they were only given that, you know, yes, he did work here from this time to this time. Because in a lot of places, that's really about all you're able to say. You can't go into, well, we had some suspicions. And there's legally some things you're not supposed to say. And I just want to give the kids credit in this case too because they spoke up they noticed something was wrong it didn't sit right with them and a lot of times you know sometimes my son he's younger he doesn't pay attention to me sometimes i think and i'm like are you even listening to me but then he'll

come home and tell me something here at school so it shows that he's paying attention and i think these kids really absorb a lot of things and when they don't feel they're right or when it's bothering them they'll tell their parents. And, you know, if it wasn't for them, how much would we even know that this guy had done? Well, I tell you, as we were talking through that, it really reminded me, I think it was the, the second season of Mind Hunter, you know, when they were investigating that principle for tickling little kids' feet or so I forget the exact thing, but he gave off some real creepy vibes. And I was reminded of that.

As we mentioned early on, there were still many unanswered questions in this case, among them being whether the Brink family was targeted or whether they were random victims. Arkansas State Police Director Mike Hager told NBC News, there's no reason to believe that there was any known association between the suspect and the victims. Authorities are now pointing to the likelihood that the attack was random. Those who knew the family agree because there was no reason anyone who knew. knew them would want them dead. Danica Harrell, a friend of the family, told KOCO news, they're such sweet people and they're so genuine. I'm really struggling to understand why or how

this could happen to such sweet people. And that thought morphed that, you know, an attack is either completely random or the family was targeted. I don't know which one is scarier. there's a part of me that thinks the the random aspect of an attack like this is scary that you can just be you know at the state park with your family you're not doing anything wrong you're not putting yourself in what should be a dangerous situation and i mean you just happen to to run into someone who's looking to do harm that's a scary thought. And in overwhelming majority of cases, people that die by violence are usually killed by someone they know.

It's not a stranger. So, you know, the fact there's no connection here, it just makes it that rare case where it is seemingly someone they didn't know and just didn't have any connection to. Although the victims may have been random, it appears that the attack itself may have been premeditated. and after the attack, McGahn did a sloppy job trying to cover his tracks. Arkansas State Police Director Colonel Mike Hagar told ABC News the information that the victim's daughters were able to provide to start us down this path. To be able to make this arrest, it all started with those two little girls. As far as getting any answers to the question of why, McGahn committed to murders.

Major Rhodes told K-O-C-O, we're not going to. to talk about his motive right now. In Washington County prosecutor Brandon Carter told five news online, just because an arrest has been made doesn't mean the investigation is over. And that last statement definitely makes a lot of sense. I mean, yes, an arrest has been made.

Some information has been made public, but there's still a lot of speculation and by no means is the investigation over. I mean, they got a lot of work to do. They have to put a case together. They have to, you know, ultimately get a conviction. They have to prove that this guy actually committed the murders. And all that stuff to build a strong case takes time.

And there may be other things that they're still looking for. Maybe they want to, you know, verify some, some different time elements or find some evidence that they are missing that they hope will maybe strengthen their case. So it makes sense that they're still. despite the arrest, they're still looking for clues to build this case, and that might take a little bit of time. So to this point, police aren't sharing a lot of details, which has led to lots of questions. Even if this was a random attack, why that day? There was just one week until McGahn started his new job. Was he just blowing off steam?

Why Devil's Den? And why were the Brinks attacked? At least one other couples claimed to have crossed paths with McGahn in the park, and that he kind of stared them down. and gave off a very bad vibe. It's not clear from their account whether they encountered him before or after the murders, but it must be terrifying to know that he could have been deciding whether they were worth attacking when he was glaring at them. One of the people who passed him in the park that day got a good enough look at him to notice

that his eyes were light blue, his hair was blonde, and that his backpack was very distinctive. Other people who saw him in the park noticed that there was blood around him, but they couldn't tell whether or not he was injured. Some people were able to walk right past McGahn on that fateful day without being harmed, but Clinton and Kristen Brink lost their lives. And this goes back to my thought, you know, this close up attack with a knife. I don't know how this guy could have walked away if he was the killer without being covered in some capacity with blood.

Now, he was wearing a lot of black, which may have helped to hide that fact somewhat. But, I mean, you can hear. from people who encountered him, some people saw it. That's got to be pretty scared to know that you walked right by this guy close enough that you could see blood or give a good description later on and think about, hey, that could have been me. If this guy had decided I was next, you know, would you have any chance to really defend yourself in that situation?

So I think people that encountered him that day are probably very thankful that they weren't attacked. There's been a lot of online speculation on forums like Reddit and web sluice. People asking the question, was this really McCann's first serious crime? Did he really jump from being a little two hands on with young female students, possibly even grooming them right to the murders of two complete strangers? We know he has lived in multiple states. And these online sluice have been digging for other unsolved cases with similar MO, especially crimes and camping areas and on hiking trails. Perhaps investigators are doing the same. For many people, it's just hard to believe that someone capable of something like this really has no criminal

record and hasn't done anything like this in the past. And, you know, for me, those are two very different things. Having no criminal record doesn't mean that the person hasn't done it in the past. It just means they weren't caught. But this question around whether, you know, this individual has done something similar in the past, you know, that always comes up for me in cases. Because normally what we're able to talk about is what is known, right? what investigators or reporters or whoever finds out and can verify. But what about all the unknown? I mean, most killers don't come out and say, well, you miss this one or, hey, I don't know why, but you don't know anything about this murder I committed.

So I normally tend to lean towards the thought that a lot that a lot of, lot of killers that we talk about probably have more to their crimes than we actually know about. And that could be the exact same here with this guy if he ends up being found guilty. And I don't blame all these online sleuths for trying to look at other crimes that were, you know, maybe unsolved in the areas he's been in because, you know, as you were just talking about, Maybe he has other unknown victims, maybe not even murder victims. Maybe he, you know, attacked someone they survived and they thought it was a robbery gone wrong or maybe he sexually assaulted someone on a trail someplace.

It could be a number of different things. So, you know, these online sues are really digging. And I hope police are going to do the same and just double check the areas he's been in to see if there's any crimes that might be connected to him. Yeah, I'm sure they are. the difference between the police and the online sluice is that what the police are doing is a little harder to figure out, right? They don't always come out and tell you exactly what they're looking at or what they found. Online sluice are a lot easier to figure out. They're posting.

So you can go check that out. Some people were surprised that McGahn would be arrested for a shock and crime like this. Patrick Bailey, who went to high school with McGahn and was on the rugby team with him, told KRK.com, by no means was there ever an indication he'd be capable of something like this. According to the Washington Post, on his application to the Springdale School District, McGahn wrote, I liked a role model making healthy choices for my students. You have to wonder, is this a blatant lie? Or is his personality drastically changed since his time in Oklahoma? And I think that's a really good question right there. You know, is this a person who has kind of had these thoughts and possibly even done some similar crimes over time?

Or did something change in his life to cause him to, you know, want to kill? And how disturbing is it that, you know, he mentioned being a role model for students? How disturbing is it? If he went into that profession so he could be around children to target them, I mean, that's frightening and terrifying. And the fact he passed a background check, you know, it's just very frightening. Yeah, but my other thought is, you know, this statement that he made on his application, you know, people put down what they think their audience wants to, to hear, you know, what's

going to get me this job? It may not even be what they really believe. I mean, that happens with people who aren't killers. But killers, especially, seem to have, I should say many of them, have the ability to kind of snow people, right? Make them think that they're someone different than who they really are. You look at serial killers, they can't come out and let people know. what they're all about, they have to act like they're the perfect neighbor, the, the perfect teacher, the perfect nurse. It's only later that things come out about who they really are. And I think that's

what leads to a lot of people saying after the fact, well, I can't believe that this person would do what they've been accused of doing. They were such a great neighbor. They would help me all the time. or this person was a great teacher or whatever it is. It's because that's what they wanted you to believe. It's interesting when you see that, you hear that, you know, someone never saw it.

There was no sign of it. But then there are other cases where somebody will say, oh, yeah, I knew there was something up with that guy. That guy was so creepy or this was very disturbing. So it's interesting when you have this different accounts in different cases where people either recognize, something in one case and nothing at all in another case.

Well, let's face it, some people are better hiding it than others. As of the time of this recording, Andrew James McGahn has been charged with two counts of capital murder and is being held without bond at the Washington County Detention Center. McGahn's DNA matched blood found at the scene. And according to ABC News, Arkansas State Police Director Colonel Mike Kagar said that when investigators searched McGahn's home, they found evidence consistent with his being involved in this particular crime. Everything that was found in his home was not specified, but investigators did say that they

found some items of clothing that matched what the suspect was wearing in that photo taken from someone standing behind him. And again, hear more if you have what we see a lot of times. Investigators have to be careful with the information that they give out. But this one statement, they found evidence consistent with him being involved in this particular crime. Okay. It's not specific, but it sounds like they're pretty confident. And then obviously, when you think about his DNA matching blood found at the semen of the crime,

that's going to be really hard to get out from under to explain that I'm not to kill him. Yeah, if there's physical evidence in the home that links back, whether it's the murder weapon or blood on his clothes from the victims, you know, maybe if something of theirs that he took with him, any number of things that could tie him there. And it sounds like police are pretty confident what they found does tie him to those murders. And eventually, you know, my thought is we will find out what that is. We just don't know right now because this case is still unfolding. Exactly what McGahn has said to police hasn't been released, but it's been stated that he basically admitted to the murders. When he was first questioned and then when he was arrested and again when he was transported to the jail,

McGahn was completely cooperative. He didn't resist at all and seemed to be extremely calm. We still don't know how McGahn was injured. He could have caught himself during the attack, but at a press conference, a reporter asked if the injuries could have resulted from a loving parent trying to do whatever they could to protect their loved ones.

And Colonel Hager said, Absolutely. I would say you're correct. Washington County prosecutor Brandon Carter backed that up, saying they absolutely protected those girls to their fullest extent, to the point that it costs them their lives. McGahn's mugshots don't show any kind of serious facial injury.

He does appear to have a few bruises and maybe a scratch or two, but whatever injury caused him to leave a trail of blood at the scene doesn't appear to be visible. And going back to the Brinks, Morf, I mean, they have to be viewed as heroes, right? They fought off their killer long enough to allow their daughters to escape. And perhaps if it was one of the Brinks who indeed injured McGahn, they may have helped solve their own murders and guarantee that there was enough evidence for an arrest and prosecution.

Though they fought back valiantly, they were at a disadvantage. The killer was armed and likely attacked with no warning and with no cell phone service in much of the park. There was no way for either of the Brinks or their children to call for help. They were also at a disadvantage due to the layout of the trail they were on. There would be no easy way to run away. According to NBC News, the area is described as one where the terrain is rugged and vegetation is thick. And they made it half a mile into the park. It would have taken time to get to a place where help could even be called and then even more time for help to make it there.

Time that the Brinks didn't have. Since this tragic double murder, there have been a few articles released in which hiking, shared safety tips, hoping that people wouldn't be discouraged from enjoying the outdoors, but most of what was recommended may not have prevented these murders. Some of the tips included things like don't hike alone and don't hike at night. Overwhelmingly, trails and wildlife areas like the ones that Brink family was attacked on are beautiful and safe spaces to spend time in, and it's much more likely that you may twist an ankle or have a running with a wild animal than to come across a dangerous killer. But cases like,

this prove you never really know what can happen out there. McGahn's next court appearance and arraignment is currently scheduled for August 25th. This date is likely to change and it may be affected if there's a plea. If McGahn did confess to killing Kristen and Clinton bring, he could try to take a plea deal so that he can be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole instead of facing the death penalty, which is on the table in the state of Arkansas. There could also always be some kind of not guilty by reason of insanity defense coming as well. However, in response to a question about this at a press conference, it was stated that it's too early to predict whether he will ever plead guilty.

As of now, the prosecutor's office plans to pursue the death penalty in this case. Washington County prosecutor Brandon Carter told five news online. The defendant in this case is in it. until he's proven guilty. But I am confident that we have the right defendant in this case and that the public need not worry going forward. And finally, a flag has been placed on McGahn's teaching certificate to boot. Well, I would sure as hell hope so, you know, at the very least.

I mean, this guy is thought to be, have killed two people. And, you know, we already know what's come out about him. as far as being suspicious and what he did with some of his students, at the very least, there needs to be a red flag on this guy when it comes to teaching, although I don't think he's ever going to be in a position to even apply for a teaching position ever again. But who knows? Things haven't been decided yet. As the prosecutor said, he's innocent until proven guilty.

But if by some miracle, he's not found guilty. And he goes back out on the streets. I think just everything that's come to light regarding the strange behaviors around the kids, I don't think, like you said, I don't think there's any chance he's ever going to be teaching kids again. And that's a good thing. And, you know, for me, the fact that the prosecutor's office has come out and said that they plan to pursue the death penalty. In this case, that doesn't surprise me at all. It might be the very thing that would call.

McGahn to plead guilty. You know, a lot of times prosecutors will offer to take the death penalty off the table if they can get a guilty plea. And a lot of people take that, you know, depending on the wealth of evidence against him. And I think a lot of people look at it is there's no way I'm getting out of this thing. They've got too much against me. I don't want to be put to death, so I'm going to plead guilty and take life without parole. Yeah, it seems like if there's, you know, we know there's people that are on both sides of the death penalty issue.

It's a big thing of debate. But if there is a case that warrants the death penalty, this is certainly one of them to murder two parents in front of their children and have to have those little girls run for their lives and be squirrely. for the rest of their lives. It's just unthinkable, and this is an especially heinous double murder, so I could see why they want to go after him with the death penalty here. We have to turn our attention to the survivors in this case, the Brink's two daughters. Colonel Hager told CNN, they have very, very strong family support in place. And he added, I have no doubt that those girls are going to be well taken care of. A go-fund me that will benefit the brink girls and pay for their parents' funerals, stated that Clinton and Kristen were

loving parents to their three precious daughters, devoted to one another, devoted to their girls, and devoted to God. Due to the overwhelming amount of public support, the goal amount continues to rise, and as of the time of this recording was over $80,000. Clinton was a milk delivery driver for Highland Dairy, and Kristen was an emergency room nurse. Danica Harrell, a friend, a friend friend of the Brinks from when they lived in Miles Montana, starting around 2018, said of the couple to the AP News, they were selfless and unconditional. With their love and support for their friends, they often played volleyball in the park and would invite anyone to join them. They touched many lives. There are accounts from patients who remember Kristen and were heartbroken

to recognize their wonderful nurse from the emergency room as one of the victims on the news. The fact that the Brink family had recently relocated for Clinton's work, and McGahn had also recently relocated for work, and they ended up in the same area at the same time, is apparently just an awful twist of fate. All indications are they didn't know each other. They had no connection, and so many things had to line up for them to both be in that park that day. If there had never been an investigation into McGahn's behavior in Texas, he might not have been in Arkansas by 2025. If Clinton had been transferred for work, the Brink family may never have been in Arkansas. And if either of them had gone on a different day or picked a different trail, they might not have ever crossed pass even though they were in the park at the same time.

At the time of this episode, all trails at Devil's Den State Park were still closed until further notice. So morph, as we wrap this one up, you know, we don't have the finality that we do in a lot of our cases. because this is all very recent. You know, things are still happening. I mean, McGahn hasn't even been arraigned yet, but it does seem from the little amount of information that we have, that the authorities believe they have a pretty strong case against him. They feel confident.

That's what I'm getting. Now, we still have to wait and see how everything plays out. you know, will there be a full-blown trial? Well, he plead not guilty. And this thing will have to be, you know, kind of a all-out trial in court. Or will it kind of go the route I was talking about earlier where McGahn looks at everything and says, you know what, I'm not beaten this. I'd rather get out from under the death penalty.

So I'll plead guilty and just take. life in prison with no possibility of parole. Now, that would save the state a lot of money as far as not having to go through this lengthy trial. The other thing it does is it saves the family from having to attend court every day. Here details that are really tough to take in and possibly the two girls from having to take the stand. I don't I don't know if that would have to happen. But the one thing that, you know, I hope is that however it plays out, the details or more details come out about motive.

Because right now, we have no idea, right? Why he was out there? Why did he pick the Brinks family to target? If he was the killer, what was going on in his? life. These are all things that hopefully will come out because it's what we're missing right now. Yeah, and whether it's at the trial or if he takes a plea deal, maybe one of the conditions is he has to give up all the information why he did it, how he found them, did he just think that he was going to attack the next couple that he saw the next people on the trail and it just happened to be this family. It would be good to just have some. answers to help them make sense. And I hope one way or the other, whether it's a plea deal,

a trial, I hope they do have good physical evidence that will make the case and connect all the dots. And sort of what you touched on, how horrifying would it be for these little girls to have to face that monster in court and relive and detail the horror they went through, explaining what he did and having him staring at them while they're doing it, it would be perhaps, you know, almost as bad as experiencing it again. So I hope it doesn't come to that personally. Yeah, I was thinking that too, kind of maybe the cleanest way is for him to plead guilty, but still give up all the details.

And that might save the family what would be a really tough trial. The other thing that, you know, we'll have to wait and see is does it come out that he either admits to or gets connected to other crimes, right? They have his DNA. I'm sure they're running it to see if it maybe matches any cold cases or unsolved cases. So something like that could come out as well. That's something we'll have to keep an eye on and see what developments are. in this case. Yeah, absolutely. But that's it for our episode on the Devil's Den Murders.

As always, if you love the show, but you haven't done so yet, take a minute, go out, leave us a rating, you can leave a review. Also, keep telling your friends, word of mouth about the criminology podcast really goes a long way. If you want to find us on social media, run every major platform to search for criminology podcast. We also have a YouTube channel, and you can visit our website, criminology podcast.com. And if you want to join other listeners of the show, consider coming over to our Facebook discussion group, criminology podcast discussion and fans. So that's it for another episode of criminology, but Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then, for Mike. And Morph. We'll talk to you

next week. Take care, everyone.