Criminology - The I65 Killer

Episode Date: May 15, 2022

The I65 killer, sometimes referred to as the Days Inn Killer, was given those names because he targeted victims that worked at hotels along Interstate 65 in Indiana and Kentucky between 1987 and 1989. The cases took many years to be solved and were done so through the use of forensic genetic genealogy. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the I65 killer. It wasn't until 2008 that DNA linked the cases together. And it wasn't until 2022 that the police announced they had identified the killer Harry Edward Greenwell. The good news was that the cases had been solved and the killer identified. The bad news was that Greenwell had died nine years earlier so he would never face the justice that he deserved. You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology An Emash Digital production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 207 of the Criminology Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Morph, what is going on with you? Not a whole lot, just hanging out, doing an episode with you. What's up with you?

Yeah, same here. I'm actually really excited to get into this one. It's been in the news lately. I think people will gravitate towards it. But before we do, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Stephanie Stone, Heather W., Kimberly T., John Hut, and Janina Headberg. So that's a lot of great new support. We really appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks to everyone that takes the time to go out of their way and help support the show. We can't thank you enough. If anyone out there would like to help support criminology, you can do so by going to patreon.com slash criminology. All right, buddy, let's go ahead and jump into this episode. You know, one of the things that we love talking about on criminology are cases that are solved with forensic genealogy. And this week's episode is another win for forensic genetic genealogy and the good guys.

It should remind us all that sometimes when it seems as if bad guys have gotten away with their crimes, the long arm of the law reaches out and grabs them years, sometimes even decades after their crimes, sometimes even after that bad person is already dead. In this episode, we are discussing a series of murders by an individual dubbed the I-65 killer. A lot of times you'll see this case referred to as the Days in killer. He was given those names because he targeted victims that worked at hotels along Interstate 65 in Indiana and Kentucky between 1987 and 1989. For simplicity, we're going to call him the I-65 killer.

The first known victim of the I-65 killer was 41-year-old Vicki Heath. In 1987, she worked nights as a hotel clerk, less than half an hour away from her home at the Super 8 Hotel in Elizabethtown, Kentucky. She had two children and had recently gotten engaged. There's no doubt that with a wedding and honeymoon to plan, that Vicki needed all the money she could bring in, so she worked nights at the Super 8. The Super 8 hotel was somewhat isolated.

The only things near the Super 8 were a few gas stations, some areas where truckers could rest, and a few fast food joints. There was also a days-in hotel nearby. On February 20th, 1987, at around 11 p.m., the manager of the Super 8 left, saying goodbye to Vicky on the way. It had been a normal Friday night up to that point. At 6.38 a.m. the next morning, Saturday, February 21st, someone staying at the Super 8 called the police. because when they went to the lobby planning to check out, it was completely empty. There was no Vicky, no other staff, and the lobby appeared to be a real mess. The lobby furniture had all been knocked over.

The payphone had been completely ripped out of the wall. And all of the stuff from the front desk, business cards, papers, etc., were strewn all over the floor. It was clear to these guests that they needed to get the police because something wasn't right. The first Elizabethtown Police Department Patrol officer to respond to the scene thought that someone had simply gotten into a fight, and perhaps Vicky in trying to break up the fight, had been injured and needed help. The officer called for backup. The first officer walked around expecting to find Vicky injured, or perhaps hiding someplace. The officer went up to the second floor and walked down the entire length of the hallway. When he didn't hear any noise, he walked back down the stairs and out the back.

back door of the hotel. It was then that the officer found Vicky, laying behind the dumpster, face up in the muddy, melted snow. She was still wearing her skirt and sweater, but she was covered in mud and blood, and she was clearly dead. It looked like she had been shot. There was one set of footprints walking away from the scene, through the mud, ending halfway through the parking lot, where a set of tire tracks began. The officer called back in to report the murder and requested a detective be dispatched to the scene. I've talked about this before, you know, being a police officer. That's a very tough job.

You think about a situation like this. You get a call, you walk in. You're expecting, okay, maybe to break up a fight, maybe to have to arrest someone, but to find a woman murdered. You know, I do think, you know, that's something that's often overlooked in police work. You just never know what you're going to find when you show up to a scene. if you're the first one, especially. I wonder how many scenes that officer went to, where that officer walked into a scene previously,

and he saw something, and then there was an explanation for it. Maybe, as you mentioned, someone had gotten into a fight, and maybe they needed a little first aid, something along those lines. But here, he's finding this savage crime scene where someone's been murdered. And I don't know that anyone,

police officer or not, ever gets used to seeing something like that because I think it would just be something that would stay with you for forever. Yeah, I would think it's a very, very tough part of the job. You know, that unknown. You just never know what you're walking into. And obviously, I think it varies by police department, you know, small town police officers versus maybe, you know, big city police officers. Obviously, they're going to see a lot more of this. Just before 7.30 a.m. Before the sun had even fully risen,

Lieutenant Rubin Gardner was assigned the case. He arrived at the Super 8 and jumped into action. Pictures were taken to the footprints leading away from the scene, but the snow had melted too quickly for any quality pictures of the tire tracks or for any impressions to be taken. A 38 caliber bullet was in the ground. It had entered and exited Vicky's body before getting live. in the dirt, that was taken into evidence, Vicki's body was removed and taken to the morgue.

According to William H. Lee Jr., the Hardin County coroner, Vicki had been beaten, sexually assaulted, and shot in the head twice with a 38 caliber handgun. DNA was recovered from her clothing and from a sexual assault evidence collection kit. News of the murdered hotel clerk made its way around the community of just under 20,000 people. residents wondered if Vicky's murder was the work of a serial killer or a robbery gone wrong. Whatever the case, it wasn't something they were used to. Days later, Lieutenant Gardner confirmed to the press that they had no real suspects in the murder of Vicky Heath. The best guest of investigators was that Vicky had tried to fight back during a robbery,

or that she had been attacked solely for the purposes of a sexual assault, but they had no witnesses and not a lot to go on. Before long, Vicki's case cooled off, and she was thought to be the, a victim of a random crime in the wrong place at the wrong time. If Vicki's killer stopped with her, her case may have languished, destined to go on salt, but he didn't stop. And two separate murders of two different victims and two different days in within hours of each other would leave no doubts in the minds of police that they had a predator on the loose. There was a days in location in Merrillville, Indiana, just over a four-hour drive north, up I-65 from Elizabethtown.

Merylville didn't have much crime. And because of that, hotel employees felt safe there. This location had safety glass between the clerk and guests for any transactions done overnight to prevent robberies. And the hotel itself was built so that the front office could be seen from most of the rooms. It was in the middle of one wing of the building, which was surrounded by two perpendicular wings. So it was almost like a U-shaped. So I mentioned Merrillville didn't have a lot of crime, but this location had actually experienced

three robberies and all of the nearby hotels had started seeing a higher rate of robberies. Still, at this location, there was no night guard, but the office and lobby were well lit at night. There was another days in location in Remington, Indiana, about 48 miles south of Merrillville down I-65. it was considered even safer than the Merrillville location. It was a smaller town, a smaller hotel, and even today, the area is considered safe, almost quaint. It's important in the timeline to note that while both Remington and Merrillville are in the state of Indiana and only 50 miles apart, Remington is in the eastern time zone while Merrillville is central. So when we mention times coming up, we're mentioning the local times.

In each case, some of the time seemed to overlap, but keep in mind there is an hour separating the two locations. In 1989, 24-year-old Mary Margaret Peggy Gill was working as an overnight auditor at the Marriville Days Inn to pay for tuition at Sawyer Business College. She had been working there for about a year and a half. At the same time, 34-year-old mother of two, Jean Gilbert, had been working part-time as an overnight clerk at the Remington Days Inn, just across the street. from her day job as a bookkeeper for the 76 truck stop. On March 2nd, 1989, just before 11 p.m., Jean clocked in for 11 p.m. to 8 a.m. shift at the Remington Days Inn. She had switched shifts with someone else to be able to go see her daughter cheer in the final sectional game at her high school, so this wasn't her normal shift.

An hour later, Peggy showed up at the Mariville Days in and clocked in for her 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. overnight shift. The Mirroville day clerk left about 15 minutes after Peggy showed up around 11.15 p.m. The Rummington location day clerk left around midnight. Things at both locations that night seemed completely normal. Gene spent most of the quiet night doing homework in a side room of the office after midnight sometime around 12.30 a.m. Peggy and Betty Pierce, the Mariville Hotel's manager, talked and everything was fine. Around 1.30 a.m., Peggy checked in a new guest, who made it to his room without issue. At around 2 a.m., a man came to the Merrillville Days Inn looking to check in, but he waited in the empty lobby for five minutes before leaving to find a different place to stay.

At 4.30 a.m., Gene Gilbert made a wake-up call to a.m. at 5 a.m., Betty Pierce became concerned because every morning the night auditor in Merrillville would call and check in. This was basically a daily status meeting, and on this morning, no call came from Peggy. At around 5.30 a.m., just after sunrise in Jasper County, a farmer heard what sounded like two quick gunshots. At 5.51 a.m., Betty Pierce officially reported Peggy Gill missing with the Marivoreville Police Department. At around 6 a.m., the Jasper County Sheriff's Office was receiving calls from guests at the Remington Days Inn, complaining about the office being locked and no employees on site to check them out.

As Merrillville officers were responding to the Days Inn in their town looking for their missing clerk, an officer was sent to see what was going on at the Remington Days Inn. There was an employee at the site, but they didn't have keys to the lobby, so they had to wait for the general manager to arrive. It's important to note that the lobby door required a key to lock. So the thought was, Jean must have locked the door, but they didn't know where she was. She wasn't in the lobby. Just after 6 a.m., officers from the Marravel Police Department arrived at the days in.

Guests trying to check out were standing outside and inform the police that no one was there. Officers checked the lobby and the office been there was no sign of Peggy. But there's also no sign of a struggle. Her person or keys were behind the desk where she kept them while working. Her green Plymouth Valari was still in the days in parking. officers called Peggy's parents, Terry and Anna Gill, but they hadn't seen or heard from her. Police waited for Betty Pierce to arrive, thinking that Peggy must be somewhere in the hotel. At around 6.05 a.m., a school bus driver in White County called the Indiana State Police to report a nude body on County Road 150 West, near County Road 900 South, not far from the Remington Day Zone.

The Indiana State Police then reported the call to the White County Sheriff's Department. a deputy was sent to investigate the report. So Morph, we've got a lot going on here. And two separate locations, things are overlapping, right? As police are trying to check out what's going on in Mariville, a nude body is discovered near the Remington days in. And around that same time, Betty Pierce arrived at the Marlville days in around 630 a.m. She noticed immediately that money had been.

been stolen from the cash drawer, which had been pried open. They later figured out that it was about $179 that was missing. Officers began their search of the hotel. The last place they searched, a vacant wing on the second floor of the hotel, was the part of the hotel that was the farthest from the lobby in the office. And it was there that officers found Peggy at the end of the hall near the fire exit. She was nude. she had been sexually assaulted, and she had been shot twice just behind her left ear with a 22-caliber weapon.

There was a cut on her left shoulder. Her uniform was folded next to her. Officers took fingerprints from the front office and the cash drawer. At about 6.30 a.m., back in the Remington Dazin area, a farmer called the White County Sheriff's Department to report finding the body of a nude female. This was the same body that was reported. by the bus driver earlier. And even though they had been notified, police hadn't yet made it out there.

Sharon Krug, general manager of the Remington Days Inn, got to the hotel at 6.45 a.m. She unlocked the door and police entered. An alarm was going off. It had been set for 4 a.m. It was still ringing almost three hours later. The cash drawing the office had been pried open and it was determined that $247 had been stolen.

Jean's homework, books, purse, and the hotel keys were still in the lock side room of the office. At 6.50 a.m. responding to the farmer's report of a body, officers found the body of Jean Gilbert. She was nude except for shoes and socks, face down in a frozen ditch on County Road 150 West in White County, 20 miles away from the Remington Days Inn. Her hands were positioned under her head and face. She was shot three times, once in the back of the head, behind her left ear, once in the shoulder and once through the left side of her chest. She had been sexually assaulted and her uniform was missing.

Investigators were able to recover DNA from her body to keep for evidence. Gene's official cause of death was found to be internal bleeding and it was determined that she'd been shot with a 22 caliber gun. Mirville police officers contacted Indiana State Police for assistance around 7 a.m. and it wasn't long before the ISP took over both of the days-in murder cases. It was pretty clear to them that the cases were connected. Indiana State Police officers interviewed many people who had been that 76 truck stopped just across the street

during the time of Gene's abduction, but no one noticed anything out of the ordinary. There were no other clues and no clear suspects in either murder. At that time, the days in murders of Margaret, Peggy Gill in Miriville, Indiana, and Gene Gilbert in Remington, Indiana, weren't connected to the murder two years earlier of Vicki Heath in Elizabethtown, Kentucky. And all three of the cases went cold. Less than a year after the double Days Inn murders, another attack would catch the attention of investigators.

This time it would be an attack on an unnamed 21-year-old woman who was working as a night auditor at the Columbus Indiana Days In location, about two hours south of Remington, down Interstate 65, and around 5 a.m. on January 2nd, 1990, a man described as looking like a trucker entered the Columbus Days Inn lobby. He looked around for a moment before asking the clerk for change to use the cigarette machine. While she made change, the clerk made small talk with the man and they talked for a few minutes before he asked her where he could get a good meal near the hotel. She said she knew of a few spots, but at 5 a.m., they were closed. She named a few places that could possibly be open, but she wasn't sure. And then the man walked out.

Around 20 minutes later, the man returned carrying a fresh cup of coffee with no lid. On a frosty morning, the steam was billing off the top of the cup as he entered. He asked the clerk to make more change so he could use a soda machine. She opened the change drawer, and suddenly the man threw his hot cup of coffee in her face, shocking her, burning her, and blinding her all in one motion. With her eyes closed, she heard the empty cup hit the register and fall to the floor as she sensed the man hopping over the counter. The man grabbed her shirt and held a knife up to her, promising not to hurt her she cooperated. Fighting to see, she got the money from the cash drawer and gave it to him.

The man yelled that he wanted more money. And there was more, but it was locked in the safe, that the auditor couldn't open. So he demanded the money she had in her purse, $20. He also demanded that she turned over to him the three gold rings she was wearing. He then forced her into the back hallway leading to the parking lot where he sexually assaulted her. The attacker forced the auditor outside into the parking lot. She did as he ordered, never looking behind her, just walking. For a while, she could hear him right behind her.

At the end of the parking lot, there was a ditch, but it was covered in ice. The terrified young woman fell through the ice into a freezing puddle of water, but she kept moving forward. The man was right behind her. She walked through the cold. She was wet. She was scared. She walked for almost quarter of a mile before seeing a house. When she saw the house, adrenaline kicked in. And she decided in that instant to make a break for it. The decision may have saved her life because the man didn't chase her. At 5.55 a.m., a woman who came to the terrified clerk's rescue called the Columbus Police Department. So Morph, this is an amazing. amazing situation. Obviously, this woman lived. We're going to talk about her in more detail, but you get a sense from that description of what happened, the terror that this woman must have been going through. And then at some point, she made the decision that she was going to take off, make a run for it. You know, it sounds like that kind of fight or flight instinct.

Yeah, and you have to really admire how strong this woman was because she had been sexually assaulted. She had scald and coffee thrown in her face. And here she is making decision. That sounds like it saved her life by fleeing and running for help. And she was alive to tell her story about what happened. And I don't know how easy that decision was. You know, a lot of people might look at that and say, well, of course you're going to take off. of course you're going to run for it, but is everyone going to do that?

Because you are taking a very big chance that your attacker is just going to maybe shoot you in the back. You just never know. Yeah, and I think a lot of people always say, well, if I was in this situation, I would do this or I would do that. And I don't think you really know until you're in that situation what you'll do. It's like the Mike Tyson quote, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. you just don't know until you're in that situation. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. I don't think you know for sure.

Now, I think what we can say is we would hope or we would think that we would do X. I think that's really all you can do. The next day on January 3rd, a composite sketch was released to the public. It was based on the clerk's description of the man. The quality wasn't great, and even the original was a black and white sketch that looked like it had been photocopied a million times. The sketch depicted that the attacker was wearing a beanie, had dark, long, stringy hair, thick facial hair, and very light eyes. The clerk described his eyes as bright green,

but this was a detail that the sketch didn't capture. The attacker was described in his late 30s or early 40s, about six feet tall, with bright green eyes. He had a lazy right eye and stringy, greasy brown and gray hair. He was wearing a band-aid under his lazy right eye, which wouldn't focus. So police felt that he may have had a, facial injury of some sort. Once details of this latest hotel attack made headlines, investigators in the two days in murders felt that this case was definitely connected.

In March 1991, Lieutenant Daniel Demmon of the Merrillville Police Department obtained a new composite sketch from forensic artist Kenneth O'Dine, who spoke with the survivor from Columbus. This new sketch was in color, and the green eyes and his one lazy eye were accentuated. On March 5th, 1991, this new composite was released. That same year in Rochester, Minnesota, an unidentified hotel clerk was attacked by a man who sexually assaulted and stabbed her. The suspect was described as a white man, about six feet tall, maybe a few inches taller, with green eyes. The right one was described as lazy. He also had graying brown hair. This case didn't immediately catch the attention of investigators because Rochester is not located on

Interstate 65, but the hotel the clerk worked at was on an interstate I-90. Investigators kept a watch fly for cases in the Midwest of attacks on lone female hotel employees, but no more were noted. In 2008, DNA from the cold cases was submitted for analysis. In spring of two, In 2010, there was a match in CODIS, the DNA database, to the DNA pooled from Vicki Heath's clothing. The DNA matched DNA samples pulled from the sexual assault evidence collection kit of the anonymous days-in clerk who survived the assault in 1990 in Indiana, which was linked by DNA from the crime scene in Merrillville where Peggy Gill was killed, and also linked by bullets used to kill Jean Gilbert, the second Days in clerk who was murdered on March 3, 1989 in Kentucky.

Police knew that they had three confirmed victims of the same killer. Police had connected the cases and they had the killer's DNA. But unfortunately, that DNA didn't match to any suspects. So police waited patiently. On April 5th, 2002, a multi-agency press conference was held where the Indiana State Police announced that the identity of the I-65 killer was finally known. He was identified as Harry Edward Greenwell, originally from, Louisville, Kentucky. He had been identified using forensic genealogy. The good news was that the killer was IDed. The bad news was that he would never face justice. He had been dead for nine years by this time.

Police connected him by DNA to the three confirmed hotel murders we've mentioned and the attack in Columbus, Indiana. He was strongly suspected of the attack in Rochester, Minnesota. But a question remains, Could there be more victims, perhaps ones with no evidence to tie Greenwell to? There are certainly some cases worth considering. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder which emergency. We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible.

A new series. From ABC Audio in 2020, Blood and Water, Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. At around 6 a.m. on December 18, 1988, 39-year-old Lois Evelyn Wright, the overnight clerk at the Colonial Inn in Rockford, Illinois, didn't call her husband, Daniel, like she did every morning to check in with him. He thought it was weird, but waited for her to call until 6.15, when he decided to call her instead. she didn't answer, so he called her back a few minutes later. Lois answered this time and told Daniel that she was busy and to pick her up at 8 a.m. By 7.20 a.m. Evelyn was found face-down, unconscious on the floor behind the desk.

It was called in as a heart attack, but when EMTs got there 10 minutes later, they found that she wasn't unconscious. She was dead. She had been shot in the chest with a 44 magnum. The cash drawer had been pried open and an undisclosed amount of cash had been stolen. 11 days later, on December 31st, 1988, 34-year-old James Matthew Walton went to work. He was the night auditor of the Envoy Inn in Florence, Kentucky, around 6.30 a.m. Guests heard what they thought were firecrackers outside the hotel.

It was very early, but it was New Year's Eve, so not all of the guests were alarmed. One guest decided to go outside and investigate and found James dead in the parking. lot. He had been shot in the stomach, chest, and back with a 44 magnum, determined to be the same gun that killed Evelyn Wright. The last transaction on the Envoy in cash register was at 6.24 a.m. A. A no sale, which basically meant that the cash drawer was opened. In trying to connect these cases to Greenwell's known crimes, there are some differences we need to point out. There was no mention of sexual assault Evelyn's case, and James doesn't fit the pattern of victims at all. Plus, the caliber of the weapon was different than the caliber of Greenwald's known to use.

There was a guest staying at the Envoy Inn that remembered a suspicious man in the lobby talking to James Walton just minutes before he was killed. He was said to be about 6'1, between 30 and 40 years old, and had a grizzly Adams-style beard. He had reddish-brown hair that was graying and wore a flannel shirt and jeans. This definitely fits the description from all the attacks greenweil. committed. The red hair is a bit different, but in the available photos of Greenwell, it looks as if his hair could appear to be reddish. Some people wonder if Greenwell could be the I-70 killer. We did an episode on the I-70 cases, which are still unsolved. During this spree, 26-year-old Robin

Fouldower was shot at an Indianapolis payless on April 8th, 1992, and just three days later, 23-year-old Patricia Smith and 32-year-old Patricia Majors were killed at a bridal store in Wichita, Kansas. Two weeks after that, 40-year-old Michael McCown was shot and killed in Terre Haute, Indiana. He wore his hair in a ponytail and was shot from behind while working at his mother's ceramic store. It's thought by many that his killer possibly mistook him for a woman. Less than a full week after this murder, 24-year-old Nancy Kitzmiller was killed at a St. Charles Missouri shoe store and 37-year-old Sarah Blessing was killed at a gift shop in Raytown, Missouri. All of these victims were shot with a 22-caliber weapon and robbery seemed to be a secondary motive in their

killings. The suspect was said to be a white man in his 20s or 30s, about 5'9, thin, with Sandy blonde or reddish hair. By some accounts, the perpetrator had a lazy eye as well. Though he was described as shorter and maybe a little bit younger than Greenwell, the attack of lone female victims matches. St. Charles, Missouri Police Department Captain Raymond Floyd told the independent news that you have to acknowledge that there are similarities, specifically the lazy I. Investigators confirmed for the independent that they are looking into the distinct possibility that Greenwell was responsible for more crimes in multiple states. So what do we know about Greenwell? He was born on December 9, 1944 in Louisville, Kentucky.

Harry Edward Greenwell had many brushes with the law. In August 1960, when he was just 15 years old, Greenwell was arrested after the car he was a passenger in crashed during a high-speed percentage. pursuit. Police attempted to pull Greenwell into 25-year-old Burns Stinson, the driver, over after they got too close to a prison chain gang. Stinson sped up instead of pulling over, and detectives followed, firing shots into the car. This made Stinson crash just one block from where the pursuit started. After search of the car, over $1,000 of stolen musical instruments were recovered. The instruments had been stolen just one week earlier from a church in East Nashville. Greenwell was remanded to juvenile custody.

The details are a little sketchy, but it seems like Greenwell was still in custody in October of 1962 when at 17 years old, he and two other teenagers escaped from the Kentucky Village Youth Detention Center. The three were stopped in a car. They stole from the Spring Valley Country Club less than an hour after their escape. But it was reported that no additional charges were filed. On January 17th, 1963, 18-year-old Greenwell was arrested for armed robbery in Louisville, Kentucky. In April, 1963, he pleaded guilty to a robbery charge and received a five-year suspended sentence.

On February 23rd, 1965, when he was 20, Greenwell was arrested for what was described as morals violations. On March 1st of that year, he was in a cell at the John. Jefferson County Quarterly Court waiting for the judge to dismiss the Morals violations charges because the witnesses who were also prisoners did not press charges. A bailiff went to inform Greenwell that the charges were dropped, but he wasn't in the cell. He had kicked out the wire screen in the cell's window and then jumped from the second story, 20 feet. At the time, he was still facing four charges related to breaking into a house.

So despite the morals charge being dropped, he was still facing time in prison. At 3.15 a.m. on March 2nd, 1965, Greenwell was arrested at a greyhound bus station. He was returned to the Jefferson County Court. This time, a prosecutor requested that his suspended sentence be revoked. In October, 1969, Greenwell was granted parole. So obviously, more of Greenwell had a history with, getting in trouble with the law. You know, one thing that kind of jumps out at me in a lot of these cases is these

slaps on the wrist. You know, at a fairly young age, he had already racked up quite a rap sheet. But yet, you know, okay, suspended sentence. These things always kind of get to me where it's almost as if I think sometimes some of these individuals learned through going, you know, through the system that yeah, I'm doing bad things. I'm getting caught, but I'm really not paying much of a price when I am caught. So the risk is worth the reward. Yeah, to me, it's frustrating how many people we talk about that when you look back at their record,

there's a history of all kinds of things that any number of them might have landed them in jail for a longer period of time. They might not be out on the street to commit some of these murders that we discuss. And it's frustrating that they have that record but weren't locked away someplace. And I can see if maybe they had a squeaky clean record and there was nothing to indicate that something bad might be coming, that they might be capable of more serious crimes. But when you see guys like this with a laundry list of stuff, it makes you pause and say, how does this guy not wind up in prison where he couldn't hurt anyone? Over a decade later, Greenwell had another brush with the law, but this time is the victim of a crime.

On August 6, 1977, at around 2 in the morning, 32-old Greenwald was robbed by a group of four men, three of whom were armed. They took $400 cash from him. On April 28, 1978, Greenwell's first wife died in a fire in Wisconsin. He remarried to a woman named Jenny on August 21, 1980, in Henry County, Kentucky. She had a daughter from a previous relationship, and together they had a son. There's a very large gap in time here, but five years later, in June, 1980. Greenwell was arrested for burglary. On June 11, 1982, 32, 37-year-old Greenwell escaped from the county jail,

in Lansing, Iowa. He was behind bars waiting for trial after allegedly stealing 40 batteries from the village farm and home store, and he was also wanted by authorities in Kentucky on more charges of theft than receiving stolen property. While he was being escorted to breakfast, Greenwell just ran through the door and made it out of the jail. Less than 24 hours later, he was found in a field on the cleavement Leet McKee Farm in West Lansing. He pleaded not guilty to charges of theft and escaping. Around 2.23 p.m. on June 28th, Greenwell escaped from jail again. He was being escorted from his cell to telephone when he ambushed the guard, overpowered him,

and escaped. But he was found just over 24 hours later. And I'll tell you what, Moore, if this guy had a knack for escaping, I don't think you can argue that point. Yeah, it's a little reminiscent of Ted Bundy when he would try and make escapes. And some of these people go to jail, go to prison, and they just accept it and they do the time. But there's people like Greenwell here that apparently want no part of staying behind bars and they do whatever they've got to do to try and get free. And the other thing that jumped out at me was that didn't seem all that hard for him to escape.

So, you know, he just ran out of the door. He just kicked out like a, like a screen over a window or something. I don't know how secure some of these facilities really were back then. Yeah, I don't think we're talking about Alcatraz by any strength. No, absolutely not. On July 28, 1982, Greenwell pleaded not guilty to the escape charge from his second breakout. At this time, he was being held on charges of two escapes and fourth degree theft. On August 10th, he was sentenced to two years in Anamosa State Penitentiary,

in Iowa for the theft and the escapes, and he was still wanted in Kentucky at that time. He must have been transferred because on December 5, 1983, Greenwell was released from the Kentucky State Reformatory just over one year after his five-year sentence in Iowa began. In July 1986, Greenwell's second wife, Jenny, filed for divorce in LaCross, Wisconsin. Just seven months later, on February 21, 1986, Greenwell killed Vicky Heath in Elizabethtown, Kentucky. On March 3rd, 1989, Greenwell killed Peggy Gill in Marriville, Indiana, and Gene Gilbert in Remington, Indiana. So I think this is back to your point more.

The guy was supposed to do five years, did what, just maybe a little bit over one. You know, these slaps on the wrist, as I call them. I get the fact that the justice system, the prison, parole system, it's not perfect. But like you said earlier, you know, it is frustrating to see people let out very, very early on what it seems like should be longer sentences. They actually got longer sentences. They just don't do, you know, hardly a fraction of the time. And then to later find out that they went on to kill numerous. people. That's a frustrating aspect of the system. Yeah. And to be fair, he wasn't in prison for rape,

attempted murder, kidnapping, things like that. These were crimes that were less serious in nature. So perhaps there just wasn't a warning sign that something more dangerous was coming. And I think that's a great point because you and I have done so many cases where people were actually put away for very serious sexual assaults, even murder to be let out very early, just to go on and commit those same type of crimes again. So, you know, the Greenwell case is a little bit different. Yeah, was he let out pretty early? I think he was. But to your point, on the scale of, you know, crimes, what he had been put away for? up to that point wasn't near as serious as many that we talk about.

On March 9, 1989, less than a week after he killed Peggy and Gene, he was stopped and arrested in La Crosse, Wisconsin after traffic violation. Police had no idea he had murdered at least three people by that point. On March 23, 1989, just weeks after the days in murders, 44-year-old Greenwell was arrested for domestic violence and home invasion, after kicking down the door of his mother-in-law's home and physically dragging his wife out of the house. He then strangled her out in the street before walking her down Jackson Street and lacrosse, holding her arms to make her walk. They got to Mr. Sticks Tavern where he began to choke her and yell at her.

She was able to get away by pretending to be seriously injured, and Greenwell let her seek treatment at St. Francis Medical Center. Greenwald was arrested and later released on the signature bond, which was basically on his own recognizance, and given a no-contact order regarding his estranged wife. But just two days later, on March 26th, Greenwell was arrested for violating the no-contact order when he threatened and yelled as a strange wife at Linus Tarrant. On April 18, 1989, Greenwell was sentenced to 15 months of probation for criminal trespass.

On January 2nd, 1990, Greenwell sexually assaulted and robbed a days-in clerk in Columbus, Indiana. she survived. Sometime after the attack in Minnesota, Greenwell remarried this time to a woman named Julie. She had three children of her own. The pair met in a bar in Minnesota. And one thing that makes me think of Mike is how many times we talk about these guys that as troubled as they are, as many issues as they have, some of them have no shortage on finding significant others to link up with. Yeah, that stands out. in a lot of the cases that we do. I want to go back to this domestic violence, home invasion scenario. I mean, this was brutal, right?

Dragging his estranged wife out of the house, strangling her. And then to find out that he got 15 months of probation for that. I mean, more if this is the exact reason why women get so upset. that because when you have somebody like this in your life, you go to the police, you want to be protected, well, this is not protecting anyone, 15 months of probation on top of the lengthy, you know, rap sheet that this guy already has, you know, that to me is just ridiculous. Yeah, and this guy, you know, he's got some, uh, cahones because he gets that no contact order and two days later he violates. It's not like it was weeks or months later.

So that was like a screw you to the new contact order. On October 11, 1998, Greenwell, who was now almost 54, was arrested for felony drug possession in Alamaki County, Iowa. On October 14, 1998, he was apparently stabbed by his stepdaughter or his adopted daughter from a previous marriage, Eva Smith, who was 15 at the time. He was charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm, but it doesn't seem like anything came from that. On November 13th, 1998, Greenwald was arrested for violating a restraining order in Iowa, but the case was dismissed on November 16th. And we just keep going through this, right? It's like nothing happens to this guy. Or when something does, it's very minimal. Yeah, and it's also worth pointing out that now he's sort of graduated from some of those breaking and entering stolen property type things. now he's actually getting into things that involve a physical nature.

In February 2010, Greenwell retired from his longtime job with the Canadian Pacific Railroad. On January 31st, 2013, Harry Edward Greenwell died from lung cancer in Lansing, Iowa at the age of 68. At the time, his obituary noted, his spirit will live on in many by good deeds he offered. It also stated that during his career with Canadian Pacific Railroad, he provided 30 years of public safety. He was buried with his parents, Paul and Dorothy Greenwell, at Calvary Cemetery in Louisville, Kentucky. Greenwell had one son and one daughter. On his deathbed, Greenwald asked his wife to bring a priest. She doesn't know what he confessed to.

She's not Catholic like Greenwell was. So she didn't realize that priests can't share what is told to them during a confession. not even if it was a murder confession. She also wonders, though, saying to the independent, if he didn't confess to the murders, what was the point of confessing to anything else? Because that would have trumped anything. Greenwell's widow added, I guess you think you know somebody. I thought I knew him, but apparently I didn't know him very well. I guess I'm lucky to be alive. This really makes you wonder, can you ever really know someone? I think it's safe to say in this case that she definitely didn't know him. And it proves that some people can

harbor very dark deep secrets that years later even after death sometimes surface well and i think that's a common theme more that we've seen you know these people these killers these guys are able to hide from some of their loved ones some very nasty things you know this guy was able to keep this job at the Canadian Pacific Railroad for a very long time, you know, to the point where he retired, you know, I think about Joseph DiAngelo, able to, to live a life with a family and loved ones after all of the terrible things that he had done. Those people had no idea that they were living with a monster. And the same thing goes here. Yeah, you look at people like BTK and some of those killers, they have families, they have careers, and they try and blend in.

Some of these guys that have camouflaged himself so well, there was no real history of criminal activity, at least in Greenwell's case, there was some indication that he had, it seems like, escalating problems from more petty crimes up to more serious things of abuse and breaking orders of protection, things like that. But I will say again, it seems like very little in the way of consequences that he suffered. And, you know, to me, that that's a, that's a big problem. But morph as we wrap up this episode on Greenwell, you know, it's a very big case that's been in the news recently, obviously with the discovery that he was the I-65 killer. We're doing the episode fairly soon.

after all of that has come out, I'm sure more information will come out about him over the next few years. I don't think people have had, you know, all that much time to really look into him, to research him. There will be people that come forward probably and add additional details to his life and kind of fill in some of the gaps. Yeah, I have to keep our eyes open and see if there's any other crimes that perhaps he's connected to down the road. Yeah, we kind of hinted at that or touched on it a little bit, you know, people are wondering, could he be the I-70 killer? I kind of doubt it just based on the M-O. It doesn't quite seem like, you know, that was him. And obviously, if we've proven anything, we've proven that there are many, many bad individuals operating

all over the country. So, you know, my assumption is the I-70 killer is a, is a totally different person, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that this guy gets tied to many more murders. I definitely think that's a real possibility. Thanks goes out to Sunny Lanin for help with research and writing in this episode. As always, if you love the show, but haven't done so yet, go out, take a minute, give us a five-star rating. Keep telling your friends. That word of mouth about the criminology podcast really helps us out. If you want to to find us on social media, we're on Twitter with the handle at Criminology Pod. You can also find us on Facebook by searching for Criminology Podcast or by joining our

Facebook discussion group, Criminology Podcast Discussion and Fans. So, Morp, that is it for another episode of Criminology, but we'll be back with everyone next Saturday night with an all-new episode. So until then, for Mike and Morph. We'll talk to you next week. Take care, everyone.