Criminology - The Jamison Family Deaths

Episode Date: March 7, 2020

Bobby and Sherilyn Jamison, along with their young daughter Madyson, disappeared in Oklahoma in 2009. The family's pickup truck was found in a rural area with a lot of their personal belongings and a large sum of cash still inside. On a cell phone, police found a picture of young Madyson that people have debated for years. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the mysterious disappearance of the Jamison family. This is a case that has baffled online amateur sleuths for years and a large number of different theories are out there about what happened to the Jamisons. Some of these theories are bizarre due to information that came out about possible cults and the Jamisons seeing strange things at their home. You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology   An Emash Digital Production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 102 of the criminology podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Mr. Morford, how are you? I'm doing good, buddy. How about you?

Yeah. No, I'm great. I know we have some late breaking and very interesting news that we're going to talk about here in a minute that I think a lot of people are talking. about. Yeah, it's, it's pretty big stuff. So I'm excited to talk about it. Before we do that, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Eilett Yona, Lisa Menton, William Glasgow, Vicki Strickland, Catherine Fowler, Miles Halverson, and Page. So a lot of great new support. We really appreciate that. Yeah, that's amazing. And we can't thank you enough. And if there's anyone out there that would like to support criminology on Patreon,

you can do so by visiting patreon.com slash criminology. More if there might be some people still on the fence about CrimeCon. Hey, go ahead and do it. If you decide to purchase your tickets, make sure you use our code, criminology 2020 on the CrimeCon website. You'll get 10% off your standard badges. As always, we just want to remind people that if you're looking, for our older episodes, episodes that are over six months old, you can find them exclusively on

the Stitcher Premium app. And that includes all episodes, our seasons, full seasons on Ted Bundy, the Zodiac, and the Golden State Killer. And speaking of the Golden State Killer, at the time we're sitting down to record this episode, there's breaking news in the case, and we have to talk about it before we get into this week's case. That big news is that Joseph James DeAngelo's attorneys are telling California officials that he might be willing to make a deal. And obviously, more if this is huge, right? Anything that has to do with Golden State Killer DeAngelo is big. I mean, people are still, they're very interested in this case. They want to see what's going to come out. And I think for me, that's the big thing. Okay. If he wants to make a deal, if he wants to plead guilty in exchange for, I believe what it is, taking the death penalty off the table, fine. But what does that entail? What comes along with that? Because for me, that's the most important part. You know, and I think everybody out there has been waiting to,

to see what type of details, confirmations, things like that are going to come out about this man's crimes. If the plea deal, which I'm assuming it would have to, Morf, includes DeAngelo sitting down and literally spilling everything

about the murders, the rapes, where he was, what he was doing, how things unfolded, then I'm, all for that. I have no problem with taking the death penalty off the table in exchange for that because, you know, if you think about his victims, I think they want that detail. I think they want to know

exactly what happened. They want to know why. They want to know, they just want to know why this guy did what he did. And to your point, I think DeAngelo could definitely provide some of these details and fill in some of those blanks that have stumped investigators because they don't have a complete timeline. They don't know his exact movements. There's some things that are still alluding them that they haven't been able to pinpoint. So if he can provide those answers and details and dates and stuff like that, that could be very helpful to police to really fill in the puzzle pieces. Yeah, and I think that's super important. I mean, if you go back to the very long season that you and I did on Golden State Killer, it was chock full of information. But,

you know, at the time we started, nobody knew who Joseph James DeAngelo was, you know, when it came to his association with this case. There were a lot of things that authorities didn't know. So obviously, we didn't know and we still don't know. And to me, that's the most important thing, filling in all of the puzzle pieces. If that's part of the deal, then I'm all for it. Because let's face it, Morph, this guy is what, 74 years old at this point? Yeah, he's, he's in his mid-70s. So a trial is going to take how long? I mean, we could be talking another year or two, right? We don't know how long a trial is going to take. And then let's say he is convicted and he gets the death penalty. Joseph James DeAngelo is never going to be put to death in California.

Right now, they're not putting anyone to death in California. I don't think they've put anyone to death since 2006 or so. Given his age and everything that's going on with the current moratorium, and he's never going to be executed in the state of California. So he's going to die in prison whether he gets the death penalty or he gets a life sentence. So to me, that part is kind of immaterial. I don't see any difference. Yeah, I was actually a little bit surprised by his decision to do that because he could

just ride out his time and stall as long as he could. And then even if he was found guilty and wound up on death row, he'd be there for years. And then by that time, he'd probably be dead of natural causes. So I almost don't understand his rationale. now. I'm glad he's open to talking and sharing what he did. But I think there's got to be something in place that makes him completely transparent and fully cooperative and that he's not going to hold anything back. I think there's going to be something in place to make sure that happens. Yeah, and obviously we're going to have to wait and see on that. You know, I have talked with fans,

you know, over the last day or two. And I know, I'm sure you have as well. I think people are really leery about this. Just like you said, what's the motivation? Now, there have been some claims that he wants to save the victims and the victims families from having to go through this trial, from having to testify and do all of that. Do you believe that from a man who, if DiAngelo is the Golden State killer, which I think almost everybody at this point believes he is, do you believe that from a guy who did what we know he did? For me personally, it's kind of hard to believe that he would suddenly get some kind of conscience and want to help these people.

And I wonder if it's more of, it's finally sunk in that he can't get out of this. And maybe now he wants to capitalize on some of the attention and get that a little bit of that BTK swagger that when these guys are caught, they sort of embrace what they've done and bask in the notoriety. And I wonder if somehow that's starting to sink in. Yeah, I think at this point, he knows he's caught. I think he knows there's enough to nail him to the wall. But if you are a serial killer seeking attention,

wouldn't you want to go full-blown trial? Wouldn't you want the media circus and, you know, all the pundits talking about you every night on television? seems to me that that's what a person would want if they were looking for the notoriety. And I've reached out to a couple investigators in the case and they can't really talk about it because of, you know, the upcoming court proceedings. But I think the overall sense is they think this could be a good thing. But where I have mixed emotions is for the family and the surviving victims and family members of

the victims that didn't survive, they were looking forward to looking this guy. in the eye in court and, you know, having that feeling that they've got the power back. And by doing this, maybe he takes that away. Maybe he's trying to get that power back and say, look, you're not going to see me in court. I'm going to lay this stuff out here and just go to jail for the rest of my life and not give those survivors and their family members satisfaction. So I wonder if that's at play too, but I have mixed feelings because I know they really want wanted to see him in court and experience the satisfaction of knowing he was going to be found

guilty, hopefully. And that makes a lot of sense, right? We know this is a man who craves control. I mean, that was a big part of his MO, controlling people. Is he now trying to assert some control? He has very little. Maybe this is the one thing that he thinks he can do to try to. control things a little bit. But I'll ask this question, Morph, and I really don't know the answer.

Just because he would plead guilty, you know, strike a plea deal, there's still going to be a sentencing phase. Wouldn't victims have the opportunity to give impact statements and all of that still? I would hope so. I would hope that would be something that maybe the attorneys could agree on and let that happen somehow. But he may say part of my doing this deal is that I don't have to look anyone in the eye. You know, we know he's a coward just based on his action. So maybe avoiding looking those people in the eye and having to sit there while they berate him in his mind.

Maybe he wants to avoid that. And part of his contingency might be that he's not going to have to face them one on one. hope they would try and put that in place because I think that all of those people deserve a say and deserve to look him in the eye. Yeah, I mean, that's one thing I hadn't thought about, you know, to take that away from some of the victims and the victims family. I think that would be detrimental to them because you and I have talked to a lot of them over the years. It's something that they are looking, many of them are looking forward to doing that day when they,

They get a chance to stand up in court, and I don't want to use the word berate. Some people might berate him, but tell this man exactly how he's changed their lives, altered their lives forever. It's a big deal. And one thing's for sure, whether it's at a trial or maybe after this plea deal, if it happens, where he lays all his cards on the table and they piece everything together, and then he rides off into the sunset and spends the rest of his days and he, jail, I think investigators will be able to start talking about what they had, what they knew,

what they didn't know, and it'll be interesting to really find out everything that was going on behind the scenes because I think they'll be able to talk about it after the cases has some kind of outcome. Well, I do believe that the prosecutors will take the victims and the victim's families' wishes into account, right? As this thing goes along. I did read somewhere where DeAngelo's attorneys had reached out to some of the victims and family members. And that really incensed the prosecution. Yeah, almost as if they're trying to circumvent them and go directly to the family members. To see what they thought about him, you know, making a deal.

I don't know. At the end of the day, and I know we spent a long time talking about this, but this is very top of mind. and it's on a lot of people's radar. At the end of the day, to me, the key is, are we doing the right thing by the victims and the victims' families? And, you know, part of that, I think, includes ensuring that this guy tells all, everything he knows, all the details, and then making sure that these people get their day in court, their chance to confront him and give him.

impact statements and all of that. Yeah, I think what's important here, too, is that police investigators can learn from this guy's actions, what drove him, what motivated him, how he got away with certain things. They can learn all of that to stop potential people in the future that are like him, maybe help understand how their minds work so they can stop them or prevent things like this from happening in the future. So I think they can learn a lot. from him. So it'd be interesting to see if they can use some of what he gives them to

to help things in the future. No, I definitely think they will. That's a great point that you bring up. I mean, law enforcement takes from all of these cases, something, right? The perpetrator did this, and this is how they helped elude the police. I mean, they learn from all of these different cases. So they'll study it big time. We're going to have to watch develop closely and see what happens. But if there is some kind of plea deal and DeAngelis starts talking, we'll be sure to do an update episode about the case. Oh, no doubt about that. And, you know, Morph, I had kind of thought that sometime in the future, that maybe we could go back to our season two and look at it in the light of whatever comes out, you know,

police thought this then. Now we know what really happened was X. And we could kind of dissect some things. I think it would be very interesting for the listeners. Yeah, that's something I've thought about too. And I think it would be really great to do that. And hopefully that's something we can do. Okay. I know that was a lot. But again, I think anytime we have new breaking information on DeAngelo and in the Golden State Killer case, we have to talk about it. because this is a case that's not going away. And people have not forgotten about it. The appetite for new information on the case, it's out there for sure.

But right now it's time to get into our case for this week. And it's a mysterious strange case. It revolves around a family of three from Oklahoma who disappeared in October 2009. and there are a number of theories surrounding the mystery of what happened to them. Some theories are pretty normal and grounded in what information is out there. Others are just downright bizarre. But the thing about these theories, from the really grounded ones to the bizarre ones, they're tough to rule out, many of them.

The bodies of the family were found four years later. But that only led to more questions. You know, this is a case that spiked a ton of interest in the amateur sleuth community and trying to solve what really became one of the biggest and most bizarre mysteries in the United States in recent times. What happened to the Jameson family? Bobby Dale Jameson was born on August 4th, 1965, to Bobby Sr. in Starlett Jamison in Latimer County, Oklahoma. His wife, Sherilyn Leyen Jameson, was born on November 5th, 1968. Bobby met Sherilyn in 2002,

and on August 1st, 2003, Sherilyn gave birth to the couple's only child, a girl that they named Madison Stormy Star Jameson. The couple finally married in July 2004 in Hot Springs, Arkansas, and settled into a lakefront home in Ufala, Oklahoma, a small community in McIntosh County, about 125 miles east of Oklahoma City. Life for the Jameson family was like a roller coaster ride. There were ups, there were downs. In November 2003, Bobby Jameson was involved in a car accident where two vehicles slammed into his car.

He survived the crash, but suffered injuries that left him with excruciating back pain for the rest of his life. Because of the injuries he received in this car. car accident, Bobby could no longer work and ended up receiving disability and welfare benefits each month that became his sole income. In 2005, Bobby filed a lawsuit, which was eventually settled out of court for $64,000. Bobby split this money with Sherilyn. In 2007, Sherilyn's sister Marla passed away after getting stung by a bee. The death devastated Sherilyn, and she became very depressed, spending days in her room taking medication. This put a strain on her marriage to Bobby,

but the couple stayed together. A couple of years later in 2009, Madison was at school during recess when she was hit in the face with a swing that knocked out her two front teeth. Bobby and Cheryllyn were furious over the incident and removed Madison from school to homeschooler. They subsequently filed a lawsuit against the school. By July of 2009, Bobby Jameson was still struggling with his chronic back pain that resulted from the car accident when he allowed family friend Kenneth Bellows to move in and help out around the house, especially with maintenance of the house. Around this time, Sherylind's mental health was spiraling out of control. She was extremely depressed and tried to take her own life, which resulted in hospitalization. Her ex-husband from her first marriage

sought custody of their son Colton, who at the time was 12. And because of his age, Colton was allowed to choose which parent he wanted to live with, and he chose his father. Saying his mother had become very depressed, she was acting strangely. Colton moved out of the Jameson family home. shortly after that. And more if I've often thought about this when I see it come up in cases or news articles. What a tough decision, right? For a 12 year old boy to have to pick between his mother and father, I think it is telling of just how bad Sherilyn's mental health was at this point in time that he said, you know what? This is something. I can't deal with. I'm going to live with that.

And for a 12-year-old, I think most kids that age aren't aware of problems going on at home. They're sort of innocent to all of that. So for him to see whatever was manifesting in her illness, it had to be extreme. Yeah, I get what you're saying. I think a lot of times parents tried to hide if they can shield the kids from certain things that are happening. But some behavior, you just can't hide. You know, the depression. You know, some of that stuff is very tough to hide from your kids. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered.

I wonder what's emergency. We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from A new series from. ABC audio in 2020. Blood and water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. If you love chilling mysteries, unsolved cases,

and a touch of mom-style humor, moms and mysteries is the podcast you've been searching for. Hey guys, I'm Mandy. And I'm Melissa. Join us every Tuesday for moms and mysteries, your gateway to gripping, well-researched true crime stories. Each week, we deep dive into a variety of mind-boggling cases as we shed light on everything from heist to who's,

Donuts, where you're your go-to podcast for Mysteries with a Motherly Touch. Subscribe now to Moms and Mysteries wherever you get your podcast. In August 2009, the Jameson's handyman, Kenneth Bellows, who was a white supremacist, found out Sherilyn was part Native American. One day, the two got into an argument over it, and Sherilyn fired a 22-calibre pistol in the ground at his feet. Naturally, this ended the relationship between Bellas and the Jamiesons, and Bellows quickly moved out of the house.

Things appeared to have been looking up for the Jameson family by the fall of 2009. In October that year, Bobby and Sherlin were considering purchasing 40 acres of land in the Sand Boys Mountains, about 30 to 40 miles from their home in Eufaula. On October 8, 2009, Bobby and Sherilyn, along with their daughter Madison and their dog, Masey, hopped into Bobby's white pickup truck and drove to the mountains, presumably to scout up the area that they were considering buying. They were never seen alive again. Two weeks later on October 17th, the Jameson family pickup truck was found in a rural area

near an oil property about 30 miles from their Ufala home. Maisie the family dog was clinging to life inside the truck. She had eaten her own feces to stay alive. she was extremely dehydrated. The police were alerted and they came out to investigate. Inside the truck, they found Bobby Jameson's wallet, Sherilyn's purse, a GPS unit, maps, a cell phone, and $32,000 in cash stuffed inside a bank bag.

But the Jamison's were nowhere to be found. The GPS that was found in the truck was checked. and it showed that the family had not spent a whole lot of time in this particular area. It was really when police checked the contents of the cell phone that they found something chilling. It was a photo of six-year-old Madison Jameson. In the photo, she's posed on a large rock in a wooded area with her arms crossed. She looks a little uncomfortable like she doesn't want to be there. And some people say that it appears as if she's being forced to take this photo and that the fear on

her face is easy to see. Now, obviously, Morf, each person that looks at this photo is going to have their own opinion. And I'm actually torn by what I see in the photo. You know, I can go a couple of different ways with it. You know, there, there is a part of me that thinks, okay, she doesn't look happy in this photo. Her arms are crossed in what is kind of a strange way. And so I get that. I get the argument that she's being forced to take the photo and she's not happy. But she's not crying. And I think, you know, you could look at it and say, okay, this is a little girl posing. for a photo who, you know, at the time is not putting on a huge smile. What do you think?

In one aspect, it looks like maybe she's just cranky, tired. She just didn't want to take the photo. There's nothing that you can see that's overly ominous. There's not someone standing there behind her, forcing her that you can see. But I think part of the problem is that her two front teeth are missing. So when you look at her smile, you can't really. tell if she's smiling because her two front teeth

I guess sort of affect it although it does look like her lips are more of in a frown position and you mentioned her arms just don't look like they're crossed naturally it's almost as if she was made to put them up like that but it's just

a really bizarre photo and it's just sort of haunting but I don't know how much we can ultimately tell from it but it is a picture that a lot of people talk about. A lot of people speculate. You know, one of the things about the crossed arms, you know, going back to when my kids were little, it almost looks like the way that they would cross their arms when they were saying they didn't like what you were telling them. But again,

I think it's tough when you have a picture, right? It is a snapshot in time. No context about what happened in the minutes before it, what happened in the minutes after it. And I think that's why there's so much speculation around it. It's really hard to tell if it's something sinister going on or if it's just a kid that just got over a tantrum and a photo was taken of the time. The Latimer County Sheriff's Office initially thought that the family got lost until they learned that the truck had been parked at a second site where the family was looking for land. So it seemed like they knew the area pretty well. A massive search began immediately for the family of three, but this area that they were in was rugged and secluded, and it wasn't going to be an easy task. Police, fire, and highway

patrol, along with several volunteers familiar with the area, and a few dog teams joined in the search. They searched on foot, on horseback, and with four-wheelers. But recent rainfall made the road slick with mud and tracking nearly impossible. So the search crew had to set up grids to look for disturbed ground, check waterways, and look for any pieces of clothing or other clues. The crew trudged through a tangled undergrowth, thick mud, and mountainous and rocky ravines. An air search was just as difficult. Police used two helicopters, a plane, and an unmanned drone. But due to windy conditions and the thick triple canopy foliage, pilots were were unable to see anything on the ground.

The search was eventually called off, but the investigation went on. Investigators interviewed the Jameson's friends and family members, but they were at a loss as to what happened to the family. Bobby Jameson's mother, Starlett, told authorities about the $64,000 lawsuit settlement and that the money found in the truck was probably Bobby's half. He kept after giving Sherylville. and the other half. Now there were some investigators that thought maybe this was drug money and that the Jamiesons were mixed up in something illegal. Police had to consider a lot of different

theories about what happened to the family. We mentioned earlier. Some of these theories were what you would call normal or typical and others completely bizarre. But police couldn't rule anything out at the time of their disappearances. One theory. One theory, involved Bobby Jameson's father, Bobby Dean Jameson. In 2005, Bobby filed a lawsuit against his father. Bobby claimed that he worked at his father's Oklahoma City gas station for years, under the assumption he would inherit half interest. But the elder Jameson sold the station without leaving Bobby any money. In May 2009, six months before the family disappeared, Bobby filed for a protection order in McIntosh County against his father, claiming Bobby Claiming Bobby Cells.

senior tried to run him over with a car in November 2008 and also threatened to kill his family in April 2009. In the petition, Bobby described his father as, quote, a very dangerous man who thinks he is above the law. He also claimed his father was involved in meth, gangs, and with prostitution. The protection order was dismissed May 18, 2009, but the civil case remained open in Oklahoma County District Court at the time of the Jameson family disappearance. Bobby Dean Jameson died in December 2009. His will was dated October 27, 2008, and it cut Bobby and Sherilyn out of the will and left everything to his granddaughter Madison.

Bobby Sr. named his brother, Jack, as executor of his estate. Jack did not believe that his brother killed Bobby, Sherilyn, and Madison. He said Bobby Sr. was either in a hospital or a rest home at the time of the disappearances and simply was not capable of being involved. Another theory was that the disappearances were the result of a meth deal gone bad and the family was murdered. I think this theory in large part stemmed. from the large sum of money found in the truck and from witnesses who saw the Jamesons in an area that was known for illicit drug activity, specifically Crystal Meth. Additionally,

both Bobby and Sherilyn had lost a significant amount of weight prior to their disappearance. A security camera mounted at their UFala home showed them moving in what then Latimer County sheriff Israel Beauchamp described as trans-like motions. In one video, the couple is seen loading the white pickup truck and making several trips back and forth from the house. They never spoke to one another. And sometimes they would just stop and stare. I mean, this is something that the sheriff thought was very strange.

Sherilyn was seen in a video placing a brown brief. briefcase in the truck. That briefcase was never found, and authorities believed it could have potentially held a lot of cash. Police also looked into the possibility that this was a murder suicide, even though the bodies hadn't been recovered. But it nagged at investigators. If the family did die in a murder suicide, where were their bodies? An 11-page letter from Sherylind de Bobby was found in the truck. Authorities described it as a hate letter. in which Sherilyn derides him as a hermit. Sherilyn's mother said her daughter was bipolar,

and that might explain the writing in the letter. Ufala police found another letter in the Jameson home that produced another theory, and this is where the case really gets bizarre. Spiritual warfare. The letter focused on the spiritual realm of death, according to the source. Gary Brandon, the family's pastor in Ufala, told investigators the Jamisons were engaged in what he called spiritual warfare. Bobby told him that he had seen two to four spirits on the roof of

their home. One time Bobby called Gary to inquire whether there were, quote, special bullets that he could use to shoot these spirits. Sherilyn Jameson told the pastor that she saw spirits spirits in the house as well, including children named Michael and Emily. And Sherilyn claimed that Madison had often talked to Emily's sister, a spirit that had wings. Sherilyn said she was not afraid and that she believed she had the gift to cast out demons. When investigators searched the Jameson home, they found a witch's Bible. Graffiti was found on a massive storage container outside the home. It read,

Three cats killed to date by people in this area. Witches don't like their black cat killed. The word by B-U-Y was misspelled as B-U-Y, and the word there was spelled as T-H-E-R-E. The Jamesons had planned to live in the storage container once they purchased the mountain property. Investigators never figured out who wrote the bizarre message, but supposedly one of Sherlin's friend, was a witch, and several of the family's cats had been poisoned by neighbors.

Sherilyn was said to have believed in witches, according to her friend, Nikki Schennelled. A few years ago, this friend Nikki was quoted to saying, Sherilyn was interested in witches, we both were. Years before, we bought matching witches' Bibles. We put them on our coffee tables as a bit of a joke. That's what the police found. But in all seriousness, that house was haunted. I don't want to sound crazy, but whenever I went there, I felt a horrible presence. I would leave feeling so down and depressed. It's hard to describe.

Once I was in the living room and this sort of gray mist descended down the stairs. It really scared me. Sherilyn told me on a couple of occasions, Bobby, who was such a gentle man, would suddenly come at her and his eyes would be completely dead and black, like he was possessed. Sherilyn would leave notes around the house saying, Get out Satan and other things like that. It was her way of dealing with things. Authorities said Bobby and Sherilyn's paranoia could suggest that Jameson's were addicted to drugs, but they never found any evidence the two were users or dealers. Another bizarre theory was that the couple was involved in a satanic cult. Some people believe an unknown person was present at the time of

home security recordings. Sherilyn's mother, Connie Cockatin, told police she believed the family was killed by a religious cult after they were listed on a cult hit list. So, morph, no doubt, there is a huge part of this case that deals with the paranormal. Well, I shouldn't say it deals with it. There are people that believe there are paranormal aspects potentially to this case. I don't think there's any doubt that Bobby and Sherilyn believed in something, believed that something was happening at their house. I mean, they, they talked to their pastor about seeing spirits on the roof inside the house that Madison was talking to the sister of one of these spirits. I mean, there's a lot of strange things going on here. It's definitely got an Ami-ville vibe to it.

when you compare some of the things from that case with this, then you have to wonder, is it some kind of shared delusion? Is it some kind of drug fuel delusion? Or is it possible that there was really something creepy and unexplainable going on there? Yeah, the thing is, there's no way for us to know, right? We only know through others what Bobby and Sherilyn had told them. But because of those conversations, it truly seems as though they believed there was something otherworldly, something supernatural going on in their house. Another theory that was pursued was that the Jamesons faked their own deaths for any number of reasons, whether it was to escape from some drug debt or because they were in fear for their lives due to cold activity. Some believe

that the disappearances were part of a kidnapping plot involving Madison. Police also believe that it's possible that the family either got lost in the mountain area and died from the elements or someone forced them out of the truck and killed them. The latter seems more likely because friends and family have said that the family would have never left their dog Masey behind. They took their dog with them so they would, would not have left her in the truck unless they had no choice. But here's the big question surrounding that theory. You know, if that was the case, why had the Jameson's bodies not been found? The investigation into the Jameson family disappearances slowed down until one day in 2013.

On November 16th of that year, a husband, wife, and daughter were scouting out an area for deer hunting when they found human remains, three miles from the spot where the Jameson's pickup truck was found four years prior. The remains were found in northern Latimer County, south of Kina, Oklahoma, about 40 miles northeast of McAllister. Nothing was found with the remains that identified them. The family reported the remains to police who came out and recovered them. Several months later in early July 2014, the remains were finally identified as those of Bobby, Sherilyn, and Madison Jameson. Cause and manner of death could not be determined, but a small hole was found in Bobby's skull suggesting that he may have been shot possibly with a

22 caliber pistol. The Jameson's owned one and kept it in the truck, but the gun was not found near the bodies. And if this was a murder suicide, it should have been found. So I think more, Or if, you know, that theory, once the bodies were found, becomes really tough to explain. If someone had shot one person and then turned the gun on themselves, the gun should have dropped right there where they dropped. So unless they took their own life in a different manner, maybe got rid of the gun before doing that, that might be the only possible way to explain that. but due to the conditions of the bodies, they weren't able to establish much about the manners of death. Sherilyn and Madison did not have any holes in their skulls. So I think this was tough for investigator, right?

They have all these questions about how these individuals died. Not a lot of answers. The murder, suicide angle didn't look good. You know, did Sherilyn shoot Bobby, then kill. Madison and herself. Okay, if she did so, she didn't do it by using a gun. And the same for,

you know, Bobby shooting Sherilyn and killing Madison before killing himself. It's just almost impossible. More if I can't think of a way to do it where you would hide the murder weapon and simultaneously use it on yourself. It's just not really plausible at all.

One possibility, I was thinking of is if somehow Bobby killed them in some way possibly strangling or suffixation or any manner that wouldn't leave a hole in their skulls and then turn a gun on himself. But again, for that to happen, that gun would have to be there where his body was found and it just wasn't found. I think adding to the problems for police was that the hole in Bobby's skull could not be conclusively confirmed to be the result of a gunshot. Now, whatever it was, a gunshot, something else, it did seem to indicate that there was some sort of violence.

You know, the other issue to bring up was the area where the bodies were found, where the remains were found. It had been searched before. And at that time, they didn't find anything. So how does that happen? Is it possible that searchers just some? somehow missed them, or is it possible that the remains were deposited there sometime after that initial search? And if that's the case, morph, what does that mean? Does it mean that the killers

were following the investigation? Did they know that searchers had looked through this area and so that they now felt this was a good place to leave the bodies, leave the remains because it had already been searched. And if that's the case, that opens up the possibility that perhaps the family was alive for some time after they went missing and then were killed later on and then dumped there. Yeah. And again, all of these things that we're talking about lead to why there are so many questions in this case, why it's so. mysterious and why there are so many people online that are trying to figure it out. It's because of these mysteries. Despite all the theories surrounding the Jameson family deaths, the case remains unsolved and there have been no updates in a long period of time. So I think one question to ask, Morph is after all this time, can this case be solved? What happened to the Jamesons? We don't have a

confirmed cause of death. This is not a clear-cut case of foul play. Robbery seems very unlikely because there was a large amount of money inside the truck and it was found. It had not been taken. There are no witnesses. So in a case like this, where does it go? Where do police go from here? At this point, it doesn't seem like they can get any more evidence from the bodies themselves or the scene where the bodies were found. So unless some kind of really enlightening evidence or confession, an eyewitness statement, unless something like that comes forward to provide more details, I don't know that this mystery will ever be solved.

Yeah, I think it'll be very tough. You know, for me, as we're wrapping up this case, I look at it from really one of two angles. either someone in the Jameson family murdered the other two members and then took their own life or someone outside of the family killed them. I think it's plausible, the murder suicide angle. It's just very tough to figure out how it would have happened. To me, the only way that I see it happening, Morp, is if Cheryl Lynn, shot Bobby, hid the gun somewhere where it's never been found, killed Madison, and then somehow

killed herself without using the gun. And you think about that, okay, unless she had some type of pills with her or something like that, I don't know how else it would have been done. But it's plausible. It just doesn't seem like a very likely scenario. And unfortunately, this is one of those cases with a lot more questions and answers and a lot of really bizarre rabbit holes that you can go down. Well, you know, speaking of rabbit holes, you know, we go back to the cult activity. We go back to Sherilyn and Bobby saying that they're, they're seeing spirits. They're seeing things. Is it possible that they got involved in some type of cult?

They were targeted by a cult. Hell, anything's possible, man. You know, that's what makes these cases so fascinating while at the same time infuriating because you want to know the answers. You want to know exactly what happened, but you just, you can't. Unless somebody comes forward that has, you know, specific knowledge of what happened to this family out there, there's just no way to know. Thanks goes out to Debbie Buck at truecrimediva.com for writing and research.

church assistance in this episode. If you love the show and you haven't done so yet, please take a minute, go out, give us a five-star rating. That helps other people find the show. Keep telling your friends. You know, word of mouth to your friends who love true crime. That helps the show tremendously. If you're on social media, we'd love to hear from you.

You can find us on Twitter with a handle at Criminology Pod. You can also find us on Facebook by searching for a criminology podcast. or by joining our Facebook discussion group, which is Criminology Podcast, Discussion and Fans. So that's it for what happened to the Jameson family. Unfortunately, this is not a case that you and I can crack, right? We can talk about the known details. We can dive a little bit into the theories, some grounded, some bizarre. It is a very interesting case.

And if any listeners out there have their own take on it, we'd love to. to hear from you so hit us up on social media. Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with an all new episode. So until then, from Mike and Morph. We'll talk to you next week.

Take care, everyone.