Criminology - The Monster of Florence Part2

Episode Date: November 16, 2025

From 1968 to 1985, a series of lovers' lane attacks happened in Italy, leaving several dead young couples. The killer in this case has commonly been referred to as Italy's Zodiac killer, but frighteningly, this killer had far more confirmed victims than Zodiac. Join Mike and Morf for this second and last episode on the Monster of Florence. Like with Zodiac, the killer was never caught, but there are some very strong suspects, and as you'll hear, there's a mystery within a mystery, as these crimes are somehow linked to a case in which the killer was caught and went to prison.   You can help support the show through Patreon. We'd love to connect with listeners on social media. We are available on the following platforms: Facebook - Facebook Discussion group - Instagram - Threads - X Formerly Twitter - Blue Sky - Twitch - Tik Tok  Criminology is an Emash Digital production hosted by Mike Ferguson and Mike Morford. 

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Found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by lead bank member FDIC. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency? We just walked in the door, and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, blood and water.

Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 385 of the criminology podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Mr. Morford, how you doing today, man? I'm doing pretty good.

I got a fresh cup of coffee here ready to roll and ready to get back into the second part of this monster case. Well, coffee's always good. and I usually have a cup of coffee on hand, at least up until lunchtime, sometimes through lunchtime. I love coffee, man. Yeah, I'm with you.

I've got to have three cups a day, one in the morning, one after lunch, and one after dinner. Well, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Valerie Butcher, Dale Whitten,

and Courtney shares. So a lot of great new support. We really appreciate that. Yeah, thank you so much to everybody that supports the show. really helps us out. For anyone else that wants to, head over to patreon.com so as criminology to get started. So in the last episode, in part one of the monster of Florence, we discussed a series

of brutal attacks on couples parked on Lover's Lane areas in the Italian countryside between 1974 and 1981 and how they were linked via striking similarity in MO, as well as ballistics, proving that the same gun was used in all the attacks, that gun being a 22-caliber beretta with a faulty firing pin. We concluded the episode with the explosive findings, that the gun used in all the unsolved monster of Florence attacks, was the same gun used in a solved double murder from 1968, the murders of Barbara Lochi and Antonio Lobionco,

at the hands of Barbara's husband, Stefano Mele. Stefano was convicted of those two murders and sent to prison in 1970 to serve a 14-year prison sentence, meaning he was behind bars when the monster of Florence killings were happening. That led us to the question. How was the gun used by Stefano Mele to kill his wife and her lover in 1968, still being used by the monster of Florence years later? It seems like there's a few possibilities. The first, that Stefano really did throw the gun into the bushes someplace, as he claimed,

only for it to be found by someone who went on to use it, becoming the monster of Florence. That seems highly unlikely to most people, which leads to another possibility, that Stefano was lying about what he did with the gun. If he knew what happened to it or who had possession of it, he may very well have known who the monster of Florence actually was. It even opens up the possibility that Stefano was part of a two-man-man-man-man-man-man-man. killing team, and that he was responsible for the first two murders in the series, and while he went to prison, his partner kept on going. It's also not clear how Stefano came to have the gun to

begin with, so maybe he got it from the person who's actually the monster of Florence, used it to kill Barbara and Antonio, and then returned it to the rightful owner. For this to be true, we have to believe that Stefano knows much more than he said, and he's protected the identity of the monster of Florence. If he knew more, and there was someone else involved, but Stefano really stay quiet the entire time he was in prison? And then more, if I think there has to be another possibility that exists where Stefano Mele didn't kill his wife and lover.

They were murdered by the monster of Florence. And then he confessed to the murders and went to prison. Now, I think a lot of people would look at that as unlikely as well. but we have seen and we are finding out more and more that people do confess to crimes that they didn't commit. They are convicted for crimes that they didn't commit. So, I mean, if you're throwing out theories and possibilities, doesn't that one have to at least

be in the mix? Yeah, I think that's a real possibility. And adding to the confusion is that Stefano admitted. to committing the murders, but then backtracked a little bit, tried to change his story once he was in prison. So it's hard to really know what's true with him and what's not. There's one other interesting connection involving the 1968 murders of Barbara Antonio in 1981, after the murder of Paolo Minority, when the police bluffed to the public saying that Paolo had given them information about his shooter before passing away.

A man named Francesco Vinci, who had once had an affair with Barbara, drew suspicion on himself in the monster case. He apparently rushed to hide his car in the woods after it was reported publicly that Paulo had provided information to police about the shooting. Vinci was arrested on suspicion of being the monster of Florence and held in jail while a case was built against him. After Paolo and Antonelli's murders in June of 1982, the monster of Florence went silent,

but he was about to make his presence known again. And in the process, clear Francesco Vinci's name. On September 9th, 1983, the monster was prowling and he would find his next victims. Horst Wilhelm Meyer and Yenz U.Rusch were two German university students who had been touring Italy for the last few days. They had wanted to see Florence before their school years started.

They decided to pull their VW van off in a quiet area of Gigoli, an area close to Skandici. It's not clear if these two men who were tourists and strangers to the area were even aware of the monster of Florence crimes. Perhaps if they knew of them, they would have kept driving. Horst was reportedly in his sleeping bag, ready to turn in while Yens was listening to the radio, with the interior lights on.

Without warning, gunshots pierced the window. On the passenger side of the van, at least one of the shots hit Horst, who was asleep by this point, killing him instantly. Yen seemed to scramble around inside the small van, trying to avoid the incoming bullets, but was hit twice.

Both of the gunshots were not fatal, cornered and with no way to escape. He was trapped inside the van. The monster opened the other. unlocked van door, shooting Yens two more times, killing him. It's at this point that the killer was probably surprised to find two men inside the van and was probably fooled due to Yen's having long hair and a thin build. His silhouette inside the van probably made the monster think he was attacking a man and a woman.

It seems at that point, the killer left immediately without trying to drag either victim from the van. The next day, a man named Rolf Freinichy, a local man who happens to be German, drove by the scene when he noticed the German license plates on the van. Thinking it might be a chance to talk to someone from his home country, he pulled over and walked up to the van to say hi to its occupants. That's when he realized he walked into a nightmare. He immediately saw bullet holes in the windows, and when he peeked in, he could see the bodies of two young men. He raced away from the scene to get help. It seems like no good deed goes unpunished. Here's a guy just trying to be friendly, neighborly,

sees someone that might be German from his home country, and he's going to stop and take time out of his day to say hi and be nice and exchange pleasantries. And here he stumbles into this terrible situation, something he probably would never forget. Yeah, I know we talk about it a lot, but it's always interesting to me. to think about, you know, these individuals who are just kind of going about their day.

They're not doing anything wrong and they stumble upon, you know, a dead body or in this case, two dead bodies. I just don't know, you know, how that would affect someone and how it would change their lives moving forward. Police descended on the scene, likely anxious or excited that they had their first monster attack in over a year. But the problem was the scene was not well handled or preserved. Some reports say that the scene was not properly sealed off and that dozens of officers trampled through the area. Crime scene photos show more than a dozen people standing in and around the crime

scene. Seven shots had been fired, but only four casings were recovered. The rest likely lost in the shuffle based on the gunshots through the van window. It was estimated that the killer was likely about five foot nine, although it's not clear how precise that estimate is. One piece of evidence that was recovered was a pornographic magazine containing gay themed material. It was an Italian magazine, and it looked brand new. It wasn't dirty or damp, and it was believed to have fallen from the victim's van. It had been cut into pieces by a sharp-bladed instrument. This led police to theories that horsed and yens were lovers,

and perhaps the monster had watched them through the, window while being intimate and was enraged. Either way, the detail probably doesn't matter whether they were gay or straight. Horsd-Niennes were attacked like every other couple while alone in their vehicle on a lover's lane. The only difference was that neither had been pulled out of the van or mutilated. Since Francisco Vinci was in jail when Horsesignans were killed, he was released since he couldn't be the monster. It was another frustrating event for investigators. And morph to me, this is where you know, ballistics, you know, once again really comes into play in this case. Not that they wouldn't be able to match ballistics anyway, but, you know, this barretta with the

very distinctive, defective firing pin made, you know, matching these murders. I'm assuming very simple from a ballistic standpoint. And, you know, you have to think about this guy. Francesco Vinci, I'm sure police were all in on him being the monster of Florence. But then you have another set of murders that occur while he's in jail. They're positively linked to the monster. So how could it be him? They had to release him.

Yeah, it seems like it would be so frustrating for investigators because now this is not the first person that they've had to let go who they thought was the monster. only to have another monster attack happen while they're in custody. So their heads have to be spinning at this point saying what's going on here every time we think we've got the guy, there's another murder. But just because Francesco Vinci was in jail during the latest monster murders, it didn't stop investigators from coming up with some major theories. These theories are elaborate and, you know, kind of hard to believe,

depending on who you ask, but there are some. who feel that the theory could be spot on. Investigators began to believe that the monster of Florence was not a single killer, but rather a whole team of killers. The belief was that Stefano Mele was part of this team, and it killed his wife and her lover in 1968, and that before he went to prison, he passed the gun off to another team member.

They obviously thought another member of the team was, Francesco Vinci, who had just been released from jail, but he couldn't have murdered Horst and Yens. Two other people, Giovanni Mele, who was Stefano's brother, and Piero Mucherini, who was Stefano's brother-in-law, who he had mentioned during interrogations, were both arrested after Vinci was released. When Stefano was first arrested for the murder of his wife,

and his story began to, changing, he briefly had mentioned Piero and Giovanni. The idea of a team to police explained how they could all be involved, yet murders could still occur when one of the team was locked up. But for this to be the case, you'd have to accept that several people all conspired to commit murders and took part and covered for each other without fear of being turned in by another team member in an effort to get a lesser punishment if it came to that. While police were weighing the likelihood of this scenario, another attack would happen,

frustrating them even more. On July 29, 1984, 18-year-old Peter Rontini and her boyfriend, 21-year-old Claudio Stefanochi, wound up driving out to secluded dirt road in Sagnalise in the commune of Vichio for some alone time. They weren't there long. It was about 9.45 p.m. when Claudio and Pia climbed into the back seat and started to undress. Without warning, gunshot shattered the back window. Four bullets in total struck Claudio. Pia tried to climb out of the car but was stuck under the weight of Claudio's body.

The gunman shot her twice, including a headshot, which immediately made her unconscious. With both victims immobilized, the monster opened the door and savagely stabbed Claudio ten times, before stabbing Pia twice in the neck. He then dragged her body out of the car. From there, he used his blade to cut out her pubic area. But this time, he took it a step further, also cutting off part of her left breast. As he fled the scene,

the killer ripped off Pia's necklace and cross-shaped pendant. The necklace fell to the ground, but her pendant was taken from the crime scene, perhaps as some sort of trophy. Other than that, they weren't robbed. When Claudio wasn't home by 11 p.m. His mother, Romana, started to get worried. She called Pia's mother Winnie,

and they organized a group of searchers, consisting of Claudio and Pia's friends. They searched various lovers' lane areas around Vecchio. A few hours later, just after 2 a.m. On July 30th, one of Claudio's friends, Piero spotted Claudio's car. As he pulled up, his headlights shined on Pia's lifeless body. He looked into the car,

and spotted Claudio dead on the floorboard. Piero immediately went for help. When investigators arrived on the scene, they took care to try and preserve it as best they could. They discovered some kind of circular prints on the car from where the killer likely leaned on it to brace himself as well as indentations in the dirt, where he possibly had knelt.

There were also fingerprints on the roof of the car, but in very poor condition to be of any use. In talking to Pia's family and friends, police learned of a familiar pattern. In the days leading up to her murder, Pia had felt that she was being stalked. In addition, the owner of a diner where Pia and Claudio stopped the night of the murder, told police that a tall, distinct gentleman dressed in elegant clothes with reddish hair and a thick ring on his finger, entered the diner in order to pint a beer. He sat close to the couple and stared intensely at Pia, with what he called anger and bitterness.

without touching his glass. When the two left, the man downed his beer in one gulp, quickly paid, and followed behind them. Later, the diner owner's statement was dismissed after it was learned that the timing of the alleged incident couldn't fit with the timeline of the murders. Police were no closer to catching the monster after this latest attack.

In fact, they were further away. Piero Mutrini and Giovanni Mali, two of the murder team that police suspected comprised the monster of Florence, had solid alibis. They were in jail at the time. This was now the third time that a suspect or suspects were in jail. At the time, a monster attack happened. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder which emergency. We just walked in the door, and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible.

series from ABC audio in 2020. Blood and water. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. So Morph we have another brutal double murder conclusively linked to the monster of Florence by both the ammo and the ballistics and all of that. And there's no doubt the M.O. Matches. But to me it's almost like, and you do see this with some serial killers. Yeah, the MO is there, but they start to, I'll say branch out for the lack of a better term. There's mutilation to the pubic area of Pia, but then he also cuts off part of her left breast. And he seems to take what most I think would believe to be some type of trophy. and there's no robbery.

So, I mean, what else are authorities to conclude? Right? This guy, his main purpose is murder. This is not murder in the commission of a robbery or something else. This is just plain murder and very sadistic on top of it with the mutilation. And to me, that's the part that makes it seem hard to pull. believe that this could be some kind of team doing these murders. Because even if you buy into the possibility,

the theory that a bunch of people could get together and target these lovers in these isolated areas, it's a whole other leap, at least to me, to think that they would go as far as mutilating the victim. That just seems like something over and above that's very disturbing. and I just get the vibe from it. It's a serial killer, a single person, and not some team.

Yeah, I don't think you can say the team thing is absolutely out of the question, but it does seem implausible. You know, the things we're talking about here that this killer is doing, they seem like something that a lone person would do. It seems like a solitary act, not something done with another person. Not to say that it couldn't happen. It just, I'm with you. It kind of seems like that to me.

And I do want to touch on, you know, just for a minute, this idea that, you know, Pia told people she was being stocked. We've heard that before in this Monster of Florence series. You have this very interesting guy and the kind of staring at, you know, the diner. Now, I get it. The police thought it didn't fit the timeline. Most likely they were seen alive after this incident. But that doesn't mean the killer couldn't have kept on following them and, you know, struck later on.

So I don't know. all of the details of why they dismissed this diner owner's statement, but it seems to me like there could be something there. Yeah, definitely. And I also wonder could some of the other victims have been stocked and maybe just not noticed it and told people about it? And then if that's the case, you know, it seems like there's more of a planning to this and there's not really a randomness to it.

Investigators had to be beyond frustrated at this. point, I mean, we have a series of murders, double murders. They've got a number of suspects. They've arrested, you know, quite a few people here. It would be over a year later that the next attack would come. The exact time and date of this attack isn't known. It happens sometime between late on September 6th and early on September 8th, 1985, 36-year-old Nadine Morio and her boyfriend 25-year-old Jean-Michel, Kravichvili, both of Audencourt France, decided to go camping in the Italian countryside. They arrived in Italy on the fort and had been touring the northern part of the country. They brought a tent and supplies and set their tent up near a wooded area of Scopetti, a fraction of

San Cassiano Val de Pesa. At some point during their stay in the tent, the monot, the monothe, He was a monster arrived, and perhaps while they were making love or asleep, he tried to catch them off guard and cut a hole into the tent. It was a doubled-wall tent, so he had to cut a second time. Perhaps the couple heard the cutting or was alerted to his presence, so he began firing indiscriminately into the tent five times. Four of those shots hit Nadine and killed her instantly. Somehow, Jean-Michel, only grazed by the bullets that killed Nadine, was able to break free from the tent and made a run for it. The killer chased behind him shooting as he ran, only hitting him in the elbow. Possibly out of bullets, the killer then pulled out his knife and caught up to Jane Michelle,

stabbing him a dozen times, leaving him where his body dropped. The monster walked back to the tent and stabbed Nadine in the neck to ensure she was dead. He then pulled her out, stripped her clothes off, and sliced away at her pelvic area, and then at her left breast. From there, the monster deviated a bit from his routine. He actually tried to hide the remains of his two victims. He put Nadine in the tent and tied it closed before moving Jean-Michel's body behind some bushes and covering it with nearby trash. On the afternoon of September 9th, a mushroom hunter stumbled upon Jean-Michel's body and raced to get help.

Responding investigators then found. Nadine's body in the tent and immediately knew that the monster had struck again. The next day on September 10th, the case took an even darker turn. A letter arrived at the office of the public prosecution of Florence. The letter was addressed to public prosecutor Sylvia Delamonica. She was the only woman to ever work the monster of Florence case, and she was the person who decided to release to the public that a victim had shared information with them about the killer before they died, despite it not being true. The address on the envelope was made up from cut out newspaper pieces like an old-time ransom note.

Inside the envelope were two pieces of paper that had been glued together to form a pocket, and within that pocket was a chunk of human flesh. Testing revealed that it was the breast tissue from Nadine's body. The killer had now evolved and was reaching out to the authorities. This was the only confirmed letter mailed by the Monster of Florence. although other letters thought to be hoaxes would be received. And we talked about the authorities being frustrated. I mean, how could they not be?

They have this guy out here, you know, killing people. They can't catch him. He's obviously a very sadistic person. And now, as you said, Morph, it seems like he's evolving. He's evolving into now taunting the authorities. Imagine opening up a letter. and it contains the human flesh of a victim. Number one, it's sickening,

but I think number two, it's like he's laughing at them. You can't catch me. I'll continue to do this sick stuff and you're helpless. Yeah, we've mentioned how this case mirrors the Zodiac. It's been called Italy's Zodiac case. And, you know, you have the attacks on couples,

on Lever Lane's areas, but now here's another commonality is the fact that the killer is now taunting police mailing in this letter that contains flesh. It's very similar to the Zodiac, mailing in a piece of one of his victim's shirts from the crime scene. So it's almost as if they're saying, here's proof that I did this undeniable proof. And it seems like it's meant to shock or maybe caused police to talk about it publicly so they can get attention. Up to this point, every serious monster suspect was alibied because of the murders happening while they were in custody. Police felt that a team of people committing the murders was still a possibility.

Now another suspect was being added to the team. Judge Mario Rottella became convinced that Francesco Vinci's brother, Salvatore, who had been both Barbara and Stefano's lover, at points, was somehow involved. In the Netflix film, they really lean into this possibility. Salvatore's first wife had died under mysterious circumstances, and her death was thought to be suicide or an accident related to natural gas. But many people believe that Salvatore actually killed her. Salvatore was eventually charged in his wife's death,

but at trial he was found not. guilty. And more of the one thing that jumps out at me, and I'm sure a lot of people is, it seems as though, you know, the authorities are kind of really, I don't want to know if all in is the right term, but they're really into this kind of team theory. So much so that every time there's another attack, another set of murders, they just rush to, you know, grab up another suspect and kind of add them to the team, right? Because there has to be somebody else. And that's pretty frightening that they're arresting them without something solid linking

them. You know, there's no eyewitness or not caught with a weapon that matches the murder weapon. They're just randomly picking these guys up because they, something on the surface at least sounds compelling. But there's no real evidence. And if you watch the Netflix movie they do on this case, it does demonstrate,

which a lot of people have said that in real life, these guys that were charged were not nice people. They had a lot of flaws, issues, very abusive in some cases, some of the criminal histories, things like that. So they weren't good guys by any stretch, but I think there was nothing solid that proved they were the monster of Florence.

either. With the monster team theory being almost impossible to prove, police began looking at more traditional lines of inquiries, including looking at people who had committed similar crimes. Due to an anonymous letter, a man named Pietro Piaciani became the main suspect in seven of the double murders. He had once committed a murder quite similar to the monster of Florence murders. In 1951, he saw his girlfriend heading into a makeout spot with another man and attacked them reportedly after seeing her expose her left breast. He stabbed the man to death and then sexually assaulted his girlfriend. He spent 13 years in prison for that murder. The time behind bars didn't reform him. He abused and sexually assaulted his wife and daughters after he was released from prison.

This guy, Pachiani, lived near some of the murders, was known to be violent and his crime somewhat fit the MO. He was arrested and put on trial as the monster of Florence. The case was in entirely circumstantial, and it didn't matter to investigators that there was pretty much no way he would have been physically able at an unhealthy 60 years old to catch up to an overpower. Jean-Michel Cravich Ville as he fled from his tent. He was also shorter than the killer that shot through those VW bus windows. Despite there being no solid evidence against Pachiani, in 1994, he was. He was convicted and given 14 life sentences.

In 1996, the verdict was overturned. And Pachiani was released from custody pending a new trial. He maintained his innocence until the day he died in 1998. With his death, the authorities were once again back on the monster team theory, and three alleged co-conspirators were put on trial. Mary Ovani, Giancarlo Lati, and Giovanni Fagi. Jean-Carlalotti also confessed to the crimes, first implicating Mario Vani and Pietro Picciani as the guilty parties, before ultimately implicating himself, too. A search of Pietro's home and property uncovered one single unspent round identical to the casings found at the murder sites.

However, it was later found that the bullet had been deliberately placed there to influence the investigation. In 1998, Jean-Carlo and Mario were found guilty. Mario Vani was sentenced to life in prison, and Giancarloaldi was sentenced to serve 30 years. Tried separately, Giovanni Fagi was quitted twice, once in 1998 and again in 1999. In 2000, Giancarloaldi's sentence was reduced to 26 years. He passed away in 2002. Mario Vani died five years later. To this day, his family continues to fight to clear his name.

One of the lines of inquiry coming from some of what Giancarlo Lottie told investigators ended up involving some of the same investigators. Listeners may recognize from the investigation into the murder of Meredith Kircher. Namely, Giulio Magnini. Giancarlo claimed that a doctor was hiring people to acquire female body parts and organs to use in satanic rituals. The rituals were not part of. Lottie's original statements. This caused investigators to look into Francesco Narducci,

a doctor from Perugia, who died just one month after the final murders, attributed to the monster of Florence. It was initially believed that Narducci either took his own life or accidentally drowned in late Trasimino. And as far as we can tell, that is still the official ruling to this day. but when his body was exhumed in 2002,

some investigators saw what they believed were signs of strangulation. Rather than being a suspect, investigators began to wonder whether Narjucci could have been killed because he knew too much about the group responsible for the murders. I mean, more if you'd have to say, at the very least, this all gets very convoluted. I mean, you have a... bunch of different guys swept up by police, tried, thought to be part of a murder team.

But what is it all based on? There seems to be very little evidence. And the evidence that I think was used, at least in one case, was found to have been planted. And I think it was that, especially the planning part, that opened up scrutiny. A lot of people theorize that there's somehow mishandling of the case intentionally by police, that there's a cover up that, again, they planted stuff to try and, you know, steer the investigation in one way or another. And at the end of the day, I don't think there's anything physical evidence-wise that connected to

any of these men, no fingerprints, no gun found in their possession, no eyewitnesses that saw them at one of the sites. So for them all to get arrested all these different times and for some of them to even be convicted, it's pretty frightening. Fresh air, longer days, a chance to reset. This season let therapy be part of your spring cleaning. Clearing mental clutter, shaking off stuckness, and building something better. Grow therapy helps you get there. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 15th, Grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you. not the other way around. They connect you with thousands of independent licensed therapists across the U.S. offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters

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and Spatsy was actually briefly accused of being the monster of Florence. It almost seems more of like there is no end to people who were accused of being involved with this series of murders. It's been stated that all of the murders took place on the night of a new moon when it was darkest outside. But Stefano Baldi and Susanna Camby were killed on the night of a waning crescent where there was a little bit of light. It's also commonly stated that all of the murders took place on Saturday nights, But that isn't true either. The murders of Barbara and Antonio, the very first murders, were on a Wednesday. And Stefano and Susanna were killed on a Thursday night.

There's really no ritual or established pattern to it. Many people don't believe that the monster of Florence was ever caught. At least he was not one of the many people hauled in and looked at. Some believe that authorities were on the right track, though, in regards to the Vinci brothers. There are some, including Mario Speci, who believed that one of Salvatore Vinci's sons committed most of the murder. He would have only been eight years old when Barbara and Antonio were killed and just 15 for the next murders. But there are slight differences in some of the killings. For example, while the women were usually found outside the car, some were dragged,

but Carmelo was carried away, as if a killer may have been stronger than whoever committed the other murders. Again, this is just a theory by some with no real proof to back it up. And I get it that this guy, Mario Spatsy, wrote a book. but to theorize that, you know, this kid at eight years old began killing was, you know, killing couples. I don't know. That's, that's pretty far out there for me. Not saying that an eight year old, I guess, couldn't do it, but that doesn't seem very plausible. Yeah.

I mean, this is such a crazy case with so many things that just don't make sense. It's so many people brought in out of the blue only to be released later. Who knows, maybe in this kind of case, something like that might be true. Apparently, Spetsy suspect was out of the area during that long gap between 1974 and the murders in the 1980s. His marriage had also fallen apart during that time, which could explain the escalation in mutilation. None of the women who were killed by the monster were sexually assaulted. And Spetsy's suspects' marriage failed because, he couldn't have sex with his wife.

Spetsy and Preston interviewed their suspect Antonio Vinci once, and he apparently brought up the fact that he owned a scuba knife. Antonio was briefly arrested on a weapons charge during the investigation, so he would have likely been interrogated and learned details even if his family had never told him anything about the 1968 murders. In the spring of 1974, Antonio Vinci was arrested for breaking into his full. father's home, even though nothing was reported stolen. This is right before the first of the Monster of Florence murders that happened when

Stefano Mele was in prison. Could this have been when the monster of Florence acquired a gun that killed Barbara and Antonio Lo Bianchi? This would mean that the gun likely belonged to one of the Vinci family members and not Stefano melee, but why would Stefano confess if he wasn't guilty? maybe he was involved, maybe he was afraid for himself or for Natalina. And I did have that thought, morph, you know, when we talked about it earlier, why would somebody confess to a crime they didn't commit?

There are a number of reasons. You know, pressure during an interrogation. We've seen that now time and time again can cause some to just want to get out of that room so badly that they'll say anything. But, you know, the other thought I had was if someone had threatened his son, that could make, you know, a person confessed to a crime as well. I mean, there's not a lot. We wouldn't do for our kids. To me, there's not many reasons why you would confess to a murder and go to prison for it. But protecting a close family member, especially when kids is one reason where I could see that happening.

Many people believe that Stefano Maley was at the crime scene and that he did fire a gun, but that he wasn't the one responsible for the fatal shots. It was more about making him so complicit that he couldn't turn on the real killer, and this is why he failed the paraffin glove test he was given. If Stefano was at the scene and somehow was complicit in his wife's murder, even if he didn't pull the trigger, he couldn't come clean about one of the vinci's being the real killer. because the rest of the family would be able to harm his son Natalino. It's very interesting that an anonymous tip led to the monster case

being connected to the murders of Barberlochi and Antonio Lobionco in 1968. How did someone know that these cases had anything to do with each other? That case was pretty much wrapped up neatly with a bow. An angry husband killed his cheating wife and her lover, something that we see all the time. We've covered in many cases where that exact thing is what happened. So it seems that there was someone who knew that the gun used in the saw of 1968 double murder was the same gun being used by the monster of Florence.

But how could they have known that? And who would that have been? And I think if you can answer that question, that would go a long way into kind of clearing up what is undoubtedly a very muddy case. You'd have to say that. Because to me, whoever has that knowledge, they know a lot more. Yeah, we mentioned how this is a mystery within a mystery.

One mystery being who's doing these lovers lane murders, but the mystery that might solve that one is how is the connection there between the saw of 1968 murders and these unsolved murders and who brought that tip forward? Yeah, because you would think they would likely know who the monster of Florence is. It's also pretty interesting that despite protocols at the time to dispose of or destroy evidence, the shell casings, which were the only thing that could definitively prove that the cases were connected, were still in evidence. And not only that, they were still neatly attached to the case file after all that time.

This is fueled speculation of police planting evidence to point the investigation in a certain direction. As we learned, someone did plan a bullet in Pietro Pachiani's yard to try to frame him for the murders. It's not outlandish to think that this person did it more than once or that more than one person had the idea to be quote unquote helpful in the investigation. It's also possible that this was an attempt to try to free Stefano Mela by turning Barbara and Antonio's murder into a very early monster of Florence killing. It could have even been a tip from the monster himself, trying to make sure that the cases were connected.

If you knew that you came into possession of a murder weapon, anything you did with it would be harder to trace back to you because you could point to a murder that you had no way of being involved in. In 2017, a theory emerged that the San Francisco Zodiac killer and the monster of Florence were the same person. The suspect, developed by journalist Francesco Amacconi, was a man named Joseph Bevaluco. After retiring from the U.S. Army, Bevalucoa moved to Florence, Italy, in July 1974. This would put him in the country for all of the murders, other than the 1968 killings of Barbara and Antonio.

He was actually a witness in the trial of Pietro Piaciani and had known him since the 1980s. Authorities feel so sure that Bevaluqua was not the monster of Florence that Amalconi was actually ordered to pay fines to his family for defaming his name with accusations. Joe Bavalaqua passed away on December 23rd, 2002, with nothing really linking him to the monster of Florence or Zodiac case for that matter. And I don't know if we talk about it all that much more, but this is one of those things that, you know, does kind of happen in some of these more infamous unsolved cases, right?

there are a lot of people whose names get dragged through the mud for what is very little, if any, in the way of hard evidence. Oftentimes it's just a theory. And I take, I think that can take different forms, you know, whether it's online sleuth,

just trying to as a group solve a case or if it's the police just rushing to put a killer behind bars and hope. they got the right guy. I think we've seen in this case, especially how many people were looked at and considered as being the monster. Well, for me, online sluice or one thing, you're going to have a lot of names bandied about, right, in some of these big unsolved cases. But for a journalist to actually come out, to put it out there, that to me is a different

story. Whatever theory listeners may believe, or what. whatever suspects they find compelling. The last confirmed monster of Florence murders happened in September 1985. It's interesting that most of the leading theories include groups of people being involved rather than a single killer operating for more than a decade. And I think the real question here is,

will the true monster or monsters ever be revealed? You know, suspects, witnesses, and early investigators are getting up there in age. Many have already passed away. If this case is solved all these years later, it's likely that it will have to come down to DNA, DNA from items handled by the killer, maybe from the casings, the letter emailed, some other evidence. Then again, after all these years, you really have to wonder, how well was that. evidence handled and stored? Can it still reveal answers to one of the most infamous cases in the

annals of true crime? I think only time will tell. And unfortunately, that is true in a lot of these big time unsolved cases, right? We've got to wait and see. But the one thing I will say is I am so much more hopeful that some of these cases will be solved now than I was, let's say, you know, eight, ten years ago. I think, you know, the Golden State Killer had a lot to do with that. Just the technology now means that there's a much greater chance that some of these can still be solved. It seems like every week there's old cases being solved 34, even 50 years old. and DNA is responsible for a lot of that. So hopefully there's evidence in this case that has been preserved

and has enough matter there to be examined and conclusively solve the case. But I think in this case, I think there will always be people that question the results, even if it is solved, because there's just been so many people named and arrested only to be let go. Some were prosecuted, went to prison for the murder, murders. So I think there's always going to be questions and people that don't trust the outcome in this case if there is an unofficial identification ever made. Well, and my thought is, won't that

make it harder for the prosecution, right? You have all these people, like you talked about, you have some allegations, maybe confirmations of evidence being planned. in the past, you would think a defense could have a field day with all of that. So it would have to be some pretty good DNA evidence, I would think. Yeah, and I also wonder if there'd even be a suspect alive to face a trial at this point because some of these crimes were talking almost 60 years old and they would be up there in age if they are alive. But even if they're not, if they can conclusively say this is who it was.

and there's physical evidence linking them to the gun, to the crimes, then, you know, that would be interesting. And I'd love to see if it's a name that we've talked about or if it's somebody else all together. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we'll just have to kind of wait and see. But the one thing you'd have to say is there's no doubt this is a very infamous unsolved case, right? The series of murders.

And for good reason, I mean, day, they are extremely gruesome, sadistic. I mean, if this is one person or if it's a group of people, these are some nasty individuals. I know a lot of people in cases like the Zodiac case, for example, talk about there being a team of killers. And I know the police in this case consider that. And I usually don't buy into that.

But this is such a strange and bizarre case all the way, round, it wouldn't shock me if that did turn out to be the case. I just, unfortunately, I don't see any evidence that suggests that there was a team. Yeah, but it's almost hard to take anything off the table in this one, right? Because like you said, there's so many strange things. But that's it for our two-parter on the monster of Florence. As always, if you love the show, but you haven't done so yet. Take a minute. Go out, leave us a rating, leave a review. Also, Also, keep telling your friends, word of mouth about the podcast really helps us out. If you want to find us on social media, run every major platform to search your favorites for Criminology Podcast.

And to get news about the show, check out old episodes and more. Be sure to visit our website, Criminology Podcast.com. And if you want to join a discussion about the show or the cases we discuss, head over to Facebook and check out the Criminology podcast discussion group. So that's it for another episode of Criminology. but Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then for Mike and Morph. We'll talk to you next week. Take care, everyone.