Criminology - The Murders of Jay Cook and Tanya Van Cuylenborg

Episode Date: October 13, 2018

In 1987, 20-year-old Jay Cook and 18-year-old Tanya Van Cuylenborg were murdered on a trip from Victoria British Columbia to Seattle Washington. Police investigated the case for years but could not solve it. They had DNA evidence but no suspect to match it up to. It wasn't until 2018, with the help of forensic genealogy, that they were able to find out who left that DNA over 30 years ago. You can help support the show by going to patreo.com/criminology An Emash Digital production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. I'd like to welcome everyone to episode three of season four of criminology. In this episode, we're going to talk about the 1987 murders of Jay Cook and Tanya Van Kylanborg. But before we do, let's give shout out to our new Patreon supporter, Amanda Walterman. we appreciate that new support, and we appreciate all the people that continue to support us month after month. Yeah, to all of our Patreon supporters, we really appreciate your generosity. If you'd like to help support the podcast, you can do so by visiting patreon.com slash criminology.

And we wanted to mention Discoverpods.com. They're accepting nominations for their list of best podcasts of 2018. There's awards for best overall, best true crime podcast, best you're stuck on a desert island podcast. If you'd like to see criminology make one of these lists, please take a few minutes. Head over to Discoverpods.com and submit your nomination form by October 26th. All right, Morf, let's dive in. We spent the first two episodes of this season, really.

digging into the science and the process of how these cases in 2018 have been solved. And now it's time to start talking about the cases themselves, starting with 20-year-old Jay Cook and his girlfriend, 18-year-old Tanya Van Kylan board. They set out together on a road trip from Canada to Washington State in November of 1987, but were murdered along the way. Not long after the murders, their families began to receive letters and cards in the mail from someone claiming to have committed these senseless murders

that stumped investigators for years. Even though the investigators didn't have much to go on in Jay and Tang's case, they did have physical evidence which included DNA. As science evolved and DNA became an invaluable tool in helping police solve cases, they got closer and closer to Jay and Tanya's killer until an arrest was made in 2018, over three decades after this young couple was murdered. But we have to go back to when and where this all started.

Jay and Tanya lived in Victoria, British Columbia. The pair were high school sweethearts. They had been dating for a little bit over six months. Jay was thin and tall. He stood about six, four. But despite his towering size, he was described by most people that knew him as being a gentle and friendly person. Tanya was a skilled basketball player and she loved animals.

It seemed like everyone that knew Jay and Tanya thought that they were great together. It was on November 18, 1987, that Jay traveled to Seattle, Washington for his father, Gordon to pick up some furnace parts for his dad's business. The distance between Victoria and Seattle, Washington is a little over 100 miles, or just about 176 kilometers. This trip would take about four hours to drive, but it also included at least one ferry ride along the way, which would take some additional time, probably extending the travel time by a couple hours. Jay thought this would be a fun road trip for him and Tanya and sort of a

romantic getaway, their first road trip together. Jay's father, Gordon, let Jay take his van to make the trip, which was a bronze 1977 Ford Club wagon. After packing up what they needed for their planned two-day trip back and forth, Jay and Tanya headed out for their road trip. They took the 4 p.m. car ferry from Victoria, BC to Port Angeles, Washington. After the ferry arrived in Port Angeles, Jay drove his father's van down Highway 101, south towards the town of Hoodsport, and the couple arrived there at 8 p.m. Hoodsport is almost 100 miles west of Seattle, and in an effort to cut down on driving time, the pair apparently decided to purchase tickets for the Bramerton Seattle ferry,

so they may have next headed to Bremerton, 40 miles to the east. But this is where things go wrong. After purchasing that ticket, Jay and Tanya are not heard from again. Their parents expected to get updates and phone calls from the pair along the way. But that night, neither Jay nor Tanya called home. And it was not like Jay or Tanya to not call when they were supposed to. But their families tried not to think of the worst. But when the next day came in.

went with no calls from either of them, their families knew there was something very wrong. And for some of our younger listeners, this is way before cell phones. You couldn't make a call while you were driving. There were no track by friend apps. If you wanted to figure out where somebody was, you had to call them or they had to call you. And for Jay and Tanya, this would mean finding a pay phone or using the phone at a store or business along the way. And you have to think back during that time to parents having no way to know where their kids were, what they were doing, there really was no way to track them in case of an emergency. And this is what Jay's and Tanya's parents were going through.

They felt like something was wrong after not hearing from the pair that second day. And so they reported the young couple missing. In this case would be very challenging because not only were there two different jurisdictions or states involved, but we're also dealing with two different countries. And I think you're right, Mike, because those two police agencies had to rely on each other to help retrace J's and Tanya's movements and to reconstruct what happened. On November 24th, four days after being reported missing, Tan is partially nude by was found in a ditch along Parsons Creek Road, which was a secluded road in Skagit County, Washington near the town of Mount Vernon.

And I think it's important that we talk a little bit more about this location. This is over 60 miles north of Seattle, and the pair were last thought to have been someplace west of Seattle. So this is a pretty good distance away from where they were thought to have been heading. Tanya had been raped and shot once in the back of the head execution style. Her body was bound with plastic wire ties. But there was no sign of Jay or the van. And a search of the nearby area didn't result in any additional clues being found.

Police immediately had to consider the possibility that Jay may have raped and murdered his own girlfriend. Police notified Tanya's family that her body had been found, and they prepared them for the possibility that Jay might be responsible for the murder. Police started an all-out search for the van, and on November 25th of 1987, the day after Tanya's body was discovered, the van was located in downtown Bellingham, in the Blue Diamond parking lot at State and Holly Streets. Bellingham is a town 27 miles north or slightly northwest of where Tanya's body was found, and over 80 miles north or northwest of Seattle. When police found the van, there was no sign of Jay Cook. But when investigators examined the van, they found a ticket that Jay had purchased for the 1135 p.m. ferry ride from Bremerton to Seattle.

They also found wire ties like the ones discovered on Tanya's body. But probably most troubling was that they found blood in the van. As they searched the surrounding area for clues, they found additional items connected to the murder. Under the porch of a place called Essie's Tavern in Bellingham, police discovered a treasure trove of evidence. This included more of the same wire ties. They found surgical gloves and a partially empty box of ammunition. They also found Tanya's driver's license and the keys to the van. But once again, there was no sign of Jay Cook.

On November 26th, the day after the van was discovered, and two days after Tanya's body was found, police located the body of Jay Cook under the high bridge, off of Prescent Lake Road, near the town of Monroe. Like Tanya, Jay had also been bound with ties, but he had been beaten and strangled to death and not shot. The area where Jay's body was discovered was about 47 miles southeast of where Tanya's body had been found,

and approximately 75 miles southeast of where Jay's van had been discovered. If you lay out on a map, the locations where Jay and Tanya were last thought to have been alive and where Jay's body was found, it seems as if the pair may have encountered their killer coming over on that second ferry ride that we mentioned earlier. And this is exactly what police thought most likely happened to them. If you follow that area up to where Tanya's body was found and then further on to

where the van was found, it seemed very. likely that the killer had murdered Jay and dumped his body not long after the ferry ride. After disposing of Jay's body, the killer likely drove Jay's van with Tanya inside of it north to where Tanya's body was later found. The question is, was she killed along the way or when they got to the location where her body was later found? From there, the killer drove the van to Bellingham and disposed of it. This led investigators to think that the killer likely lived in the Bellingham area, and they spent a lot of time investigating there. But their efforts were fruitless.

They couldn't find any witnesses who saw the driver of the van or the person that stashed the items on the tavern property. In addition to the murders, police also determined that Tanya and Jay had been robbed. When they left on their trip, they had roughly $570 in cash and traveler's checks with them. A Manolta 35 millimeter camera was also missing from the van, so police had no witnesses, no murder weapon, and no real path forward. But they did have one thing, and that was semen that was left on Tanya's body. They couldn't do much with it at the time, but luckily investigators carefully collected and preserved it. In the aftermath of the senseless murders, the Cook and Kylanborg families tried to deal

with their grief the best they could. As their parents lay Jay and Tanya to rest, a reward of $15,000 was quickly offered for information leading to the arrest of the killer. And although tips came in, nothing was solid enough to lead police to the killer. As police

continued tracking the paper trail left by the pair, they determined that on the same night they vanished, they made a purchase at Hoodsport grocery and then later on at Ben'sport, Delhi in Allen Washington at 9.29 p.m. Since these locations were further south than the pair should have driven before heading over to Seattle on the ferry, police felt that they may have missed

their turn headed farther south than they should have and then eventually turned around, headed back up northeast to cross over on the ferry to Seattle. This left a bigger area to search for investigators, as Jay and Tanya could have encountered the killer anywhere along their route. But in the end, the strongest theory that police had was that they likely met their killer on the ferry ride to Seattle. In December of 1987, just a month after the murders, the families of both Jay and Tanya received Christmas cards from someone claiming to be their killer. And these cards contained graphic descriptions of the murders. One of the cards read in part,

Dearest Jay's father, Gordon Cook, greetings and salutations. Hallelujah, bloody Jesus. I am the happiest human being on planet Earth. In fact, I am on a Michael Jackson victory tour celebrating my victory. And ultimately, between 1987 and 1990, 19 of these cards were mailed to the Cook and Van Kylanborg families over multiple holidays.

The cards were postmarked from places such as New York, Los Angeles, and Seattle. The writing was very distinct. Although the cards were extremely disturbing, police discounted them as a hoax and felt that they didn't contain information, which only the killer would have known. It wouldn't be until 2010, 23 years after the murders, that police were finally able to track down the author of the sinister greeting cards.

They identified him as a homeless Canadian man in his 70s. Although police wouldn't reveal how they identified him as being the center of the cards, they did verify that he was investigated and ruled out as having anything to do with the cook and Van Kylanberg murders. and in the end, the mailings proved to be just a cruel hoax and a right hearing. In January of 1988, about a month and a half after the murders, police announced that they had a person of interest that they wanted to question in connection with the double murder.

But after they did their investigation, they ruled this man out as being involved in the murders. And this is when the case stalled a bit. Then, in October of 1989, as the two-year anniversary of the murders approached, the TV show Unsolved Mysteries did a segment about the case giving it new attention. And this also helped the case reach a much wider audience. But despite the episode generating tips and renewed interest in the case, it didn't lead to an arrest. After that, the trail went cold. Although police continued to work on it over the years, it wouldn't be until DNA science came on the scene, and investigators knew that the semen left behind by the killer might be his downfall.

From that seaman, a useful and quality DNA profile was generated. It was then uploaded into CODIS, the National Law Enforcement DNA database, to see if investigators could find a match. Unfortunately, they didn't get one. But as time went by and DNA science advanced, it wouldn't be long before new techniques would be used to try and identify this brutal killer. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency. We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible.

a new series from ABC Audio in 2020. Blood and water. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Investigators reached out to Parabon Nanolabs to see if they could assist in generating a snapshot composite of what the killer may look like based on his DNA. In April of 2018, Parabon Nanolabs completed that snapshot. As he drove away,

they're standing in the window waving. Laura Bonster remembers the last time she saw her beloved brother. When your brother or sister, daughter, or a loved one walks out the door, you have no way to know that it's the last time you will ever see them. On November 18, 1987, 21-year-old Jay Cook and his 18-year-old girlfriend, Tanya Van Kylanborg, left their home in British Columbia for an overnight trip to Seattle and never returned. Their bodies were found several days later in Skagit in Snohomish counties. Jay had been strangled, Tanya sexually assaulted, and shot in the head. The person who did this came prepared to do a brutal crime.

For more than three decades, the case has gone unsolved. Not a single tip panned out. Not a single DNA match turned up anywhere until this. This is very shocking. And this is something about 31 years, a long time. Technology called DNA phenotyping is allowed investigators to come up with these composite images of an unknown suspect. This is what scientists believed the killer would look like at 25, 45, and 65 years old. His hair could be different. He could be heavier now or have facial hair.

Sergeant Jennifer Sheehan-Lee was just an intern with the Skagit County Sheriff's Office when she first worked on this case. 30 years later, she describes the new developments in one word. It's hope. It's hope. I mean, we have to have some kind of hope. Three decades after the murders, Laura Bonstra told us today, she still hadn't worked up the nerve to look at the face of the man who killed her brother, but she hopes you will to help put an end to her lifetime of suffering. So this was pretty big news in the minds of investigators working on Jay's and Tanya's case,

but unfortunately, it was about to be overshadowed by something bigger. The answer was and always was going to be in the DNA. We knew we could and should solve it using the most innovative DNA technology available at this time. We all knew that it would take passion. We all knew that it would take persistence. Last Wednesday, at 8.15 in the evening, I received an email from the daughter of Sherry Domingo, who was murdered in Southern California. Her name is Debbie. She was 15 at the time. Last Wednesday, she emailed, in essence, I'm going to paraphrase.

Hi, Ann Marie. I thought the editing for the recent documentary was brilliant. She quoted from the show, quote, this case will be solved because of sheer persistence. She went on to say, I have those words posted in a few places in my home and my workplace, so I can see them at various times throughout the day. Thank you for that persistence.

I have faith. We all knew as part of this team that we were looking for a needle in a haystack, but we also all knew that the needle was there. In the last six days, and I emphasize the last six days, that passion, that persistence, and the knowledge finally came to an answer in this building behind us here, our crime lab. crime lab employees, DNA analysts who worked tirelessly in the last few days to provide that answer. Yesterday, an arrest warrant was issued, a complaint was filed, charging that individual with two counts of murder with special circumstances for the murder of Brian and Katie Maggiore here in Sacramento in February 1978. It is fitting that today is National DNA Day. That was Sacramento County District Attorney Anne-Marie Schubert,

discussing the arrest of the Golden State Killer, Joseph DiAngelo. And how fitting was it that it was on National DNA Day? Investigators in the Cook and Kylanborg case, if they weren't already excited with the progress they were making with the help of Parabon, had to be pumped after seeing a case like to be. Golden State Killer solved. And although Parabon didn't play a role in solving the Golden State Killer case, they were doing similar work in J's and Tanya's case.

And that included entering the same DNA profile that they used in creating the snapshot composite into Jedmatch, the same database that was used to catch Joseph DeAngelo. And in May of 2018, investigators in the Cook and Kylan Burr, case, working hand in hand with Parabon, got the same outcome as investigators in the Golden State Killer case. Good morning and thank you all for being here. Yesterday we took into custody a 55-year-old C-Tac man who was suspected of the 1987 murders of Jay Cook and Tanya Van Kylanberg.

William Earl Tabit II has been booked into the Snohomish County Jail on one count of first-degree murder on a warrant out of Skagit County. We took him into custody yesterday around 6 p.m. in Seattle without incident. Today he will be transported to the Skagit County Jail. In a minute, Sheriff Reichert will provide you additional details on that part of the process. Talbot was identified as a suspect through the process of genetic genealogy. With us today are Steve Aaron Trout, I'm sorry, Steve Armandrout and C.C. Moore from Parabion Nanolabs. Cece is the genetic genealogist who worked on the case, and she is here with us today on Skype.

Steve and Cece will provide details how the suspect's DNA, which was collected in 1987 at the scene of Tanya's murder, was used to identify his ancestors, which in turn led us to the identification of Talbot. It was just a few weeks ago that I stood before you when we released composite images of what the suspect may have looked like based on DNA markers. Since then, we've received over 100 tips related to this case, and I really want to thank everyone that called in with information. Unfortunately, with Talbot in custody, the investigation still has more work to be done. Skagit and Snohomish County detectives are looking to speak with anyone who knew Talbot or knew of his activities in 1987 or 1988. He would have been 24 years old at the time of the crime and living in Woodenville. We would like to speak with anyone who saw Talbot with the Cook family van, which is identified here, in November of 1987. In addition, detectives are still looking for the Manoata X-700 camera, similar to the one that is pictured here, that Tanya had in her possession at the time that she was murdered.

It is possible that the camera was in Talbot's possession or that he gave it to someone he knew. In addition, we're also looking for information about the blanket that you see identified here. This was the blanket that Jay Cook was found wrapped in. It did not belong to Jay or Tanya, and their families have never seen it before. It is possible that someone might know where Talbot could have acquired a blue blanket like this, or know where this type of blanket might have come from around the time the murders were committed. So to reiterate, we are looking for anyone who knew Talbot in the late 1980s, who saw him with this van or with this camera, or has information,

about the blue blanket. All tips can be referred to the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office anonymous tip line number, which is on the posters, but I'll give you the number as well. That number is 425-388-38-35. Again, our tip line number is 425-38-38-38-45. Before I turn the podium over to Sheriff Reichert from the Saskatchew County Sheriff's Office, I just want to take a moment to thank the detectives and investigators who never give up on this case. It's a difficult thing for us. but candidly, this is what we do our job for. Sheriff Reckhamer. Thank you, Sheriff Trinery.

And thank you to the, as Sheriff Trinery said, thank you to the detectives from both Snohomish and Skagit County who worked so hard on this case. Recently, I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention the hard work that those detectives and deputies did back in 1987 when they documented and classified the information and properly stored it so that it allows us to be standing here today. It's been 31 years since his horrific crime took place.

Today we are one step closer for justice for Jay Cook and Tanya Vine-Kyland-Borg. The next step is prosecution. He'll be transferred to the Skagit County Community Justice Center later today, and he will have a first appearance later this afternoon. 31 years ago on November 24, 1987, Tanya's body was found in Skagit County in a wooded area of Parsons Creek Road near Highway 99. Investigators at that time collected DNA samples from Tanya, but were never able to identify a suspect until recently. Snohomish County detectives obtained DNA samples just a few days ago.

The crime lab ran that DNA sample and confirmed that the DNA belongs to the same person who left the DNA at the crime scene in 1987. Today we know those DNA samples match William Earl Talbot, linking him to her murder, kidnapping, rape and robbery. Steve Armand Trout from Parabon will explain in more detail how we identified Talbot as the suspect in this case, but we still need your help. This is an active investigation. As we speak, detectives from both Sonomish County and Skagit County are interviewing potential witnesses and gathering additional evidence. As Sheriff Trenary said, if you think you have information about Talbot or this crime, call the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office anonis.

Theonomous tip line, 425-388-38-35. And now I'll turn it over to Steve from Parabond for some more information. Like most of you, I feel a range of emotions about the events that led us here today. I'm appalled and angry when I think about the crimes. I'm proud that my company Parabon was able to assist in the investigation. I'm sad for the families of the victims, for their pain, for their loss, and hopeful that they will soon find some peace. We should all commend the investigators on this investigation.

Their determination of perseverance is what led to the conclusion we hope, or at least the next phase of this investigation. And we are honored to have been a part of that. We have great hope for the DNA technologies that we were able to apply in this case, in particular genetic genealogy. We believe that these people, technologies will be important and instrumental in solving a number of such cases going forward. Although we've been working on a genetic genealogy offering for a while, we only announced it

formally two weeks ago. Already using those methods, we've been able to provide actionable intelligence to law enforcement on a number of cases throughout the United States. Most people will applaud the use of these technologies for bringing a bit of about justice and some will not. Recently, after the Golden State killer arrest, some critics raise privacy concerns over these methods. However, they were mostly founded on misconceptions about the process about the technology.

So we've created a fact sheet that you can find in your media kit that attempts to dispel some of these misunderstandings. We used a database called, Jedmatch. This is the same database that was used in the Golden State Killer Investigation. Jedmatch is a site where people can upload genotype files, a type created by any of the DNA testing companies that are out there, and there are many, and it's a place specifically designed to allow people to discover genetic relationships. For this case, a genotype file was created

from DNA found at the crime scene. It was uploaded into Jedmatch via secure communications. The file was set to private. At no time did anyone have access to this file, nor did it ever appear in any queries. That's an option available to anyone who uses these tools. At every turn, the contents of this file is not visible. The site only makes it possible to compare DNA between two people and assess the degree of their genetic relationship.

So as I mentioned, no jet match users ever had access to this file, nor did it appear in any matches. All use of the tools was compliant with the usage policies of that website. Good morning. Detective work has sure come a long way in 30 years. It's hard for us to fully understand or appreciate how evidence was. stored so professionally and so impeccably three decades ago. That same evidence was retrieved only months ago and used to find my brother's killer. What an amazing world we live in today.

Science and good old-fashioned police work is making it harder and harder for these disturbed individuals to hide in the shadows. It's unlikely a case like this would have ever been solved without the benchmark advancements, Detective Sharf and his team are doing working with companies like Parabon. We asked for people to come forward with information back on April 11th. And we're elated with a huge response from you, the public and the news media. As Jennifer said at the last conference, you have to have hope. We had this glimmer of hope, but we were also afraid that after 31 years to get too excited,

Now we're here today, thanks to all of you, and the extraordinary professional and determined police force that stands behind us today. Yesterday, the killer had his last sleep in his own bed, his last coffee break, his last day of freedom. For my family and I, it is our first day without the weight, the burden, the hurting that comes from not knowing who killed my brother Jay and his sweet shy girlfriend, Tanya.

It's hard to put in towards this feeling of relief, of joy, of great sorrow that this arrest brings. Well, the hole that was left in our hearts will never be filled completely. The work done here by all of these incredible, hardworking professionals, both now and 30 years ago,

has helped make that hole smaller. From the bottom of our hearts, we deeply, deeply thank you. Hello, I'm Jay Cook's mother, Lee. For a year after Jay was gone, I still set his place at the table. And I heard his big six foot four bounding up the back steps two at a time. But he never came in the door. Jay was our son, our brother. At the time he died, he was 20,000.

20 years old. And Tanya was 18. It would be 51 now. He probably would have married and had kids. My daughters would have nieces and nephews. I would have more grandchildren. But we missed out on all it could have been. For 31 years, we have waited and hoped for a day like this. A day like this for our family, the Cook family and the Van Callenberg family. But how could we have known that the day instead would be so bitter sweet. On one hand, we're close to closure, and on the other, we're still at a loss. And I don't have my only son, Jay. I wanted to say thank you to everyone, and I mean everyone who's worked so hard and persevered over these years for us to have this day. You all have our families sincere and heartfelt.

Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm John Van Collenberg, Tanya's older brother. Our family would certainly like to firstly express our gratitude and congratulations to the Washington police authorities who've continued to pursue this case for the 31 years and without them, obviously this would not have been resolved. So a big debt of gratitude to them and their perseverance. In last few years, it's been, in particular, Jim Scharf, has been bound and determined to move this case forward.

And from what I know, his perseverance has been very key and looking to use these additional DNA techniques. And to be able to have them applied to this case, very deserving of credit, where that has resulted in. in this today. Also, obviously, a debt of gratitude to Parabon, nanolabs and CC-More for their work, which, you know, happened quickly and professionally, and it's just astounding. I'm sure a lot of you are coming to terms

with that technology as I am and how quick and how fast that work can be done. It's great. So it's certainly a great relief to our family to have the, person responsible now, held accountable for these horrific crimes, and hopefully start to move towards some form of closure on that. I don't know what that looks like yet.

It's been a long road to get here 31 years. So certainly, hopefully it's a, for me at least, it's a sense of some justice that's starting to happen here for these two wonderful kids, Jay and Tanya. They deserve justice to be done. And they were both gentle souls, caring and trusting kids. and they were betrayed and hopefully this is the start of some justice for them. We're very glad to see this person also off the street.

No chance to re-offend. That's always been a huge goal of our families to find this individual and to remove the possibility of him re-offending so that nobody else has to endure these kind of losses. I think it's imperative that the public, we support the use of the DNA data banks for law enforcement purposes. As Steve from Parabon mentioned, there's some controversy or at least some debate about that. And fair enough, as new advancements come along, it's society's obligation probably to debate these things.

But on the other hand, when you look at the greater good and the benefit to society here, I certainly feel that the use of these data banks for these purposes is entirely appropriate. helps make our, hopefully, we should make our communities a safer place for everyone to live. Thank you for your attention. Right now, we're just getting into that portion of the investigation where we're preparing to look forward to see what we still need to do. And there are a number of other things that we have that we are working on with the Washington State Patrol Crime Lab.

We don't have any idea what the motive was here. We're not even sure how the individual met up with our victims. He had an arrest after this that was dismissed. I believe it was something to do with drugs and possibly an indecent exposure. This guy's 55 years old now and he's pretty heavy, so it's pretty hard to look back and see, you know, what he would have appeared like back then. And so what we're interested in is anyone who might have photographs of him from that time period, we'd like to get those add them to the case file.

The phenotyping work is a good tool to get information to rule people out more so than anything, I believe. It also assists in getting tips. but it's the genetic genealogy that was the key tool that got this case resolved. And had law enforcement never had access to genetic genealogy, I don't believe this case could ever be solved. It's autosomal DNA as opposed to STR DNA that the state crime lab works with. His mother is deceased and we have talked to his father. We're not sure exactly where he was living at the time because there's several addresses in the Woodenville area.

That's why we want to talk to anybody that knew him back in those days. We don't believe he's ever been married. He's basically been driving trucks at different jobs probably within the last 20 years. We're not investigating any other crimes that we're looking at him for at this time other than resolving this kidnapping. rape, double murder robbery case. We don't have any substantial tips that would have led to this gentleman, though. It did allow us to rule out a list. We had a list of about 350 names from prior tips from when this was profiled back in the day, and we were able to eliminate many, many people that were on that list and many of the people that were called in as tips.

on this new list. If it hadn't been for genetic genealogy, we wouldn't be standing here today. And if it's not allowed to be used in law enforcement, we would never solve this case. And Morph, I think the way that audio ends is very powerful. If it hadn't been for genetic genealogy, we wouldn't be standing here today. And if it's not allowed to be used in law enforcement, we would have never solved this case. They essentially conceded that this forensic, or genetic genealogy made all the difference. And there are just some cases that despite good evidence or determined police work just can't be solved. But now this new technology is changing that equation.

You heard in that interview that they arrested William Earl Talbot II for first-degree murder. Talbot was a truck driver and you didn't really have a criminal record. But you also heard in that press conference that, that he did have some sort of run-ins with police for drug-related and possibly indecent exposure-related offenses. But those charges never went anywhere. So you have to wonder if there was a missed opportunity to dig into Talbot. But even if police had charged him with any of those crimes, there's no guarantee that any of it would have led back to a connection to J.A. and Tanya's murders. Another important thing mentioned in that press conference was where police said that

Talbot lived at the time of the murders. Police believe that in 1987, when the murders occurred, William Talbot lived with his parents in the town of Woodinville. And that's interesting if you plot that town on a map along with the other towns we discussed in relation to this case. Remember, Tanya's body was found on November 24, 1987, near the town of Mount Vernon, Washington. That's about 60 miles north of Seattle. The next day on the 25th, Jay's van was discovered in Bellingham, 27 miles north of where Tanya's body was found. And on November 26th, Jay's body was found near the town of Monroe, 70 miles southeast of

where the van was found the day before in Bellingham. It was the police theory back then when the... the murders occurred that the killer dumped Jay's bodies first, then headed north to where Tanya was dumped, then drove further north where he discarded the van. That caused authorities to look in that area and consider that the killer likely lived somewhere around that area. But if Talbot did indeed live with his parents in Woodenville at the time of the murders. That's a lot closer to where Jay's body was found

than where the van was found. You're right, Mike. Woodinville is about 79 miles south of where the van was found, but only 13 miles southwest of where Jay's body was found. It almost makes you wonder if somehow Talbot made Jay and Tanya drive him to the town of Bellingham where he disposed of the van and then drove another vehicle back south somehow,

dumping tan his body first and then Jay's body close to his home. Whether he dumped the bodies heading north or coming back down south, somehow or another, Talbot needed to get from where the van was found in Bellingham to his home in Woodenville, a distance of 79 miles. That means he either drove another vehicle home after disposing of the van or arranged a ride with a taxi or a friend. And it is possible that he hitchhiked home. It was the 80s. Hitchhiking was still pretty common, much more common than it is today.

But hopefully police can piece all of those details together and it comes out in the future. But even if they can't, they still have the DNA that Talbot left on Tanya's body. And that's what's so wonderful about the science of DNA and these new techniques. If you committed these kinds of crimes even decades ago, you can't run from your DNA. And science is going to catch up with you. William Talbot was charged with two counts of aggravated first-degree murder. He was in court in June where he pleaded not guilty. So more if we're talking about the case of Jay Cook and Tanya Van Kylanborg, their families waited over 30.

years to find out who committed these senseless murders against them. But this is a case that's not quite wrapped up yet. You know, it sounds like they've got some amazing evidence. And hopefully soon these families will get the justice that they've been waiting for all these years. Yeah, 30 years is a long time for their families to wait for justice. and in the next episode, episode four, we'll discuss another case that took 30 years to solve, and that's the 1988 abduction, rape, and murder of 8-year-old April Marie Tinsley. And we'll bring you that case next Saturday night.

If you like the show, please take a minute, if you haven't already, go out, give us a five-star rating, give us a review if you want to. It goes a long way towards helping people find the show. And if you want to find us on social media, you can find us on Twitter with the handle at Criminology Pod, or you can find us on Facebook by searching for Criminology Podcast. You can also join our Facebook discussion group by searching for Criminology Podcast, Discussion and Fans. This season, we want to show some support for our friends in the podcast world by playing

previews of some of their shows at the end of Criminology episodes. We think that if you like Criminology, you'll like these shows. as well. And this week we're playing a clip of trace evidence hosted by Stephen Pacheco. And if you're into unsolved or cold cases, his show is just for you. Hey, podcast listener. This is Stephen, the host of Trace Evidence, a weekly true crime podcast focused on unsolved murders and missing persons. Each week, I dig deep into the evidence, suspects, and theories revolving around the unsolved cases, you think you know, Elisa Lamb, Aisha Degree, Brandon Lawson, and the ones you've never heard,

Lily Arambrough, Candice Hiltz, Kineka Powell. If you're a true crime fan, haunted by unanswered questions, join me each Monday for a thorough examination of the victims, their stories, and the unknown perpetrators behind them. Trace Evidence is available on Apple Podcasts, Google Play music and all your favorite podcatchers. Visit trace dash evidence.com for a full list of episodes, transcripts, and to subscribe today. Security program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling up, and audit dread? It's time for Vanta. Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place, and cuts audit prep by 82%. Less manual work, clear visibility, faster deals, Zero Chaos. Call it compliance or call it Compliance. Get it? Join the 15,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to VANTA.com

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