Criminology - The Orange Sock Murders

Episode Date: March 14, 2021

In 1982, 29-year-old Barbara Jo Oberholtzer and 21-year-old Annette Kay Schnee were both last seen in the town of Breckinridge, Colorado. Both were found murdered and their cases were linked by a pair of orange socks. A matching orange sock was found on or near each of the murdered women's bodies. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss these tragic murders out of Colorado. Investigators were stumped for years as to the murderer's identity. It took advancements in the area of forensic genetic genealogy to match DNA to a suspect. Alan Lee Phillips was arrested earlier this year and has been charged with both murders. You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology An Emash Digital production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Terms apply. If you love chilling mysteries, unsolved cases, and a touch of mom-style humor, moms and mysteries is the podcast you've been searching for. Hey guys, I'm Mandy. And I'm Melissa. Join us every Tuesday for moms and mysteries, your gateway to gripping, well-researched true crime stories. Each week, we deep dive into a variety of mind-boggling cases as we shed light on everything from heist to who-done it.

We're your go-to podcast for Mysteries with a motherly touch. Subscribe now to moms and mysteries wherever you get your podcast. If you love chilling mysteries, unsolved cases, and a touch of mom-style humor, moms and mysteries is the podcast you've been searching for. Hey guys, I'm Mandy. And I'm Melissa. Join us every Tuesday for moms and mysteries, your gateway to gripping, well-researched true crime stories. Each week, we deep dive into a variety of mind-boggling cases as we shed light on everything from heist to who done it.

We're your go-to podcast for Mysteries with a motherly touch. Subscribe now to moms and mysteries wherever you get your podcast. Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 150 of the criminology podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. What's going on, Mr. Mike Morford, with you? Not a whole lot. Just working, getting stuff done and listening to feedback from people that are liking our old episodes.

That's pretty cool. Yeah, it's cool. I mean, you and I have talked about it for a while. while now. It's something we wanted to do. We had to wait until the time was right, but they're all out there now. So, you know, 150 episodes with the one that we're doing right now. And, you know, I went back and I listened to some of those Zodiac and Golden State episodes. It doesn't seem that long ago that we were doing them. And then in another way, it seems like a lifetime ago. So it's kind of interesting to go back and to listen to something that you did, you know, three or four years ago. Yeah, that brings back bad memories because when we were starting out,

I remember it took like what eight hours to do one episode. But you were patient with me, so I appreciate that. Yeah, we, uh, we, we, we honed it a little bit. We continue to see some great Patreon support. So let's give our shoutouts. We had Miriam Evans, Heathen's mom, Naomi Childress jumped up to our highest level, Dana Sheik, Sid Waddell, Stephanie Bade, and Tiffany. So a lot of great new support. Yeah, thanks to everyone for that. That's, that's amazing in every week when you rattle those names off. It's just cool that people are willing to help the podcast out that way. And if anyone out there would like to support us, they can go to patreon.com slash criminology to sign up. All right. Morph, we got that out of the

way. We went quick. So it's time to jump into this case. And in this episode, we're talking about a puzzling one that had investigators stumped for years. This is a favorite case of online sluice and there has been an arrest made recently thanks to what else? Genetic Genealogy. In 2018, when Joseph DiAngelo was arrested and revealed to be the long infamous Golden State killer slash original night stalker, forensic genetic genealogy was groundbreaking technology. that that news shocked us all. I can still, you know, remember us being in the middle of this long run of episodes and hearing the news. Since that 2018 announcement, we have seen that genetic genealogy has been used to close case after case, helping to solve decades old murders and identify victims known only as John and Jane Doe's for years.

We've talked about a number of those cases. Heck, we did a whole season on cases solved using that type of technology. A lot of these cases that are now being solved took place in the 1970s and 80s. You know, back then, people still felt it was perfectly safe to leave their doors unlocked. Hitchhiking was still a very common practice. Even for young women and girls who were by themselves, I think a lot of hitchhiking. used a buddy system, calling as soon as they got to their destination, and many had rules about who they would accept rides from that they felt kept them safe. Two such trusting young women were

29-year-old Barbara Joe Oberholzer and 21-year-old Annette K. Schnee. Both women in their 20s were last seen hitchhiking from the ski town of Breckenridge, Colorado. But for them, hitchhiking would proved to be deadly and their murders would be collectively known in the media and by citizen sluice as the orange sock murders. I think more of one thing that is important to point out is that there's another case, often referred to as the orange socks case. That other case refers to a long unidentified woman known as orange socks who was recently identified in 2019 as Deborah Jackson. While this Orange Sox case is not related to Deborah Jackson's, her case was also solved using genetic genealogy. The small town of Breckenridge, Colorado is a resort town. Today, the town has almost 5,000 residents, thanks to population growth following a long period of development.

In 1982, the town had a population of just under 900 people. But every year, many tourists come through the area to ski and experience. winter, Colorado style. These tourists come from all around the world, not just nearby towns in Colorado or surrounding states. Who visited and lived in the town of Breckenridge literally fluctuated each season, and some people who visited would only go once rather than returning annually. There are also many seasonal workers, some who work every year, but many who work one season while young are migrating across the country. This fresh mix of people coming and going, creates a unique social atmosphere and a wonderful vacation time,

but makes investigating crimes involving unknown people much more difficult for authorities. Most areas in the U.S. have a set permanent population, but Breckenridge could have someone from across the world visit for a few days and then simply not come back. For investigators, this can be a nightmare, and as the population has grown, it's only made things worse. Barbara Joe Oberholzer called Bobby Joe was born on Christmas Day, 1952, in racing Wisconsin. She and her husband got married in 1977 and relocated to Colorado together in 1980. Bobby Joe had an 11-year-old daughter named Jackie.

Bobby Joe was 5'3, about 100 pounds, and had long strawberry blonde hair and bright blue eyes. She wasn't afraid to hitchhite and often accepted rides from people she knew from town. On January 6th, 1982, she hitchhiked from her Alma, Colorado home to her receptionist job at a real estate company in Breckenridge, setting out at around 7.15 a.m. The two towns were just about a 30-minute drive apart later that evening, around 6.20 p.m. Bobby Joe called her husband, Jeff, and informed him that she'd be going out for drinks with friends to celebrate her promotion at work. Bobby Joe never showed up at home, even though she had assured Jeff when she called that she'd find a ride home with a friend.

All of her friends confirmed she left the bar by herself just before 8 p.m. to hitch a ride home, she headed to a store called the minute mark, just about 100 yards from the bar entrance, it was a popular spot to find rides with drivers heading south out of Breckenridge. A friend saw Bobby Joe waiting and offered her a ride, but this friend was only going five miles, and she didn't want to get stuck in snow. Bobby Joe politely declined and was never seen alive again. Jeff Oberholzer drove to Breckenridge just after 2 a.m. after he realized that his wife should have been home. He hoped as he drove that he would find Bobby Joe. He drove past the bar and even checked her real estate office, wondering if she decided to take shelter from the cold night there.

It was dark and no one was roused by Jeff knocking on the door. He called the police department and gave them Bobby Joe's description. He was told they'd be on the lookout, but that she was an adult and it hadn't been long enough to report her missing. Jeff headed home, hoping that when he got there, his wife would be waiting for him. She wasn't. The next morning, Jeff received the phone call. He thought it would be Bobby explaining why she hadn't made it home. But it was a call from a rancher in Como, Colorado, who said Bobby Joe's driver's license was found on his property. Jeff made the trip to pick up the license, and now he was pretty worried. On his way back from picking up the license, about 10 miles northeast

from the intersection of highways 9 and 285 and about six miles away from the ranch where her license was found. He spotted Bobby Joe's backpack in the snow in a field. There were also bloody tissues and Bobby Joe's mittens, one of which was bloody. Jeff and his friends quickly put together a search party and spread out. The snow was deep. It was very cold. so searching wouldn't be easy.

But around 3 p.m. on January 7th, 1982, 29-year-old Bobby Joe was found, less than 25 feet from Highway 9. This area was just 10 miles south of where she was last seen at the Minut Mart in Breckenridge. She was lying on her back, dead from two gunshot wounds.

Zip ties on one of her wrists showed that someone had tried to restrain her before her death. There were no reported signs of sexual assault. Where she was found was only 300 feet south of the Hoosier Pass Summit parking lot. There was a lone orange sock and a set of house keys in the parking lot near her body. The keys were definitely hers. Her husband Jeff had made the key ring for her. It had a large hook on it that could be used as a weapon.

But while the keys were hers, the sock did not belong to Bobby Joe. Police were called in to survey the scene. Investigators believed Bobby Joe was running away from her attacker while he was shooting at her, but she turned back towards him to head towards the road and that she was first shot in the breast and then again in the chest. Footprints in the snow suggested to investigators that she was originally running toward the tree line, but then tried to make it back to the highway, only to fall in. slide down an embankment and then ultimately bled out. If Bobby Joe hadn't died from her injuries, she would have frozen to death in negative 20-degree weather.

Crime scene photos show you just how much snow was there that night. The photos show investigators standing next to a speed limit sign, and due to the amount of snow on the ground, they are almost as tall as the sign. She may have made it through her attack if someone had found her sooner. After ballistics tests, police came to believe that the weapon used, was a 38 or 357 handgun with Remington Peters copper-jacketed hollow point bullets. Bobby Joe's body was found 20 miles away from where Jeff found her backpack off a completely different highway. It's important to note the layout of the highways nearby. On a map, both highways 9 and 285 run pretty much north to south. Each is on one

side of a mountain with no roads in between. If you drive Highway 9 south, then catch 285 north, Highway 70 is the first highway that will take you right back west to the 9. Bobby Joe was found off Highway 9 and her backpack was on the side of Highway 285. In the small community, news of the murdered woman slowly made the rounds, but things were about to get worse. Annette Kay Schnee was born on January 16, 1960, in Sioux City, Iowa. She moved to Frisco, Colorado, 20 minutes from Breckenridge in 1979, the year after she graduated high school. She was reported missing on January 7, 1982. The same day Bobby Joe was found.

Annette was 5'2, 102 pounds, and had long, dirty blonde hair and brown eyes. She was last seen just before 5 p.m. on January 6th. at a Breckenridge pharmacy. Annette hadn't been feeling well, and had left work at the Frisco Holiday Inn early on the 6th to go see a doctor. She immediately hitchhiked after the appointment to the drugstore, a pharmacy in Breckenridge, to fill the prescription she received. Her work uniform for Flipside Bar, her night job,

which she was scheduled to start at 8 p.m., was found at her home. Witnesses saw Annette speaking to an unidentified woman with dark hair, and she actually paid for the woman's marlboral cigarettes at the pharmacy when she bought her prescription. Staff there didn't think Annette and the dark-haired woman had arrived there together. The staff members recognized Annette from previous trips, but they did not recognize the unidentified woman who has been described as unkempt. There is a sketch available online of this unidentified woman. The mystery woman was said to be five foot four, slim with dark hair, and it looked as if she had been out camping for quite some time. The authorities never did find this woman.

And in the small community, people became worried that one woman had been murdered and another was missing. On July 3rd, 1982, about six months after she vanished, the body of 21-year-old in that she was found by a young boy. fishing in the Sacramento Creek in Park County. Her body was floating face down. This area was about 13 miles south of where Bobby Joe had been found, west of Highway 285. The cold water of Sacramento Creek helped slow to composition and preserve her body, but her remains had still been in the water long enough that investigators couldn't determine whether or not she had been sexually assaulted.

It was clear to investigators that she had redressed or been redressed, sloppily. One sock was in her sweatshirt pocket. Her shirt was on inside out. There was no bullet in her body for investigators to trace or analyze since it had entered and exited her body. But investigators believed she was shot in the back with what was possibly a handgun, something along the lines of a 9mm, 38, or a 357. Investigators went back to the beginning of Annette's case to take a fresh look.

She had never made it home to change into her work. uniform for a flipside bar. She was wearing one orange sock and that immediately jumped out to investigators. This orange sock matched the lone sock found near Bobby Joe's body. This led investigators to connect Annette's death to Bobby Joe's. And this is how they became known as the orange sock murders. Investigators believe that whoever killed Bobby Joe had actually killed Annette first. leaving her in the creek with only one sock, then picked up and killed Bobby Joe,

accidentally dropping or even carelessly disposing of a net's sock from their vehicle while they were moving Bobby Joe's body. In September 1982, hikers found Annette's backpack about 100 yards from the Hoosier Pass Summit parking lot, closer to where Bobby Joe's body was found. It was near the orange sock in a net's left boot. There was also a photograph of a still unidentified male among her items. It's a small photo, passport-sized, and it's been speculated that it is a photo of someone in prison, but it doesn't quite look like a mugshot.

There's no information in the photo. It's also been theorized that the man is someone in the military due to his buzz cut and the plain background. The man appears to have a swollen shut eye, and some of the skin on his face is swollen. The picture has a bit of damage to it, so it's hard to see him clearly. But someone who knows him should be able to recognize him from this photograph. It was another item found in the backpack that caught investigators' attention and sent the case in a new direction. A business card belonging to Jeff Oberholzer, the husband of Bobby Joe, was found inside Annette's wallet. Jeff Oberholzer immediately became the prime suspect in both murders.

This was amplified when he, according to investigators, was said to have changed his story. He was asked whether he knew Annette and replied that he didn't. But later, when he was shown her photograph, he claimed to have given Annette a ride while she was hitchhiking once and had never seen her sense. Jeff told police he'd had company the night of the murders, but Jeff's alibi was shaky. the alibi, a friend named Joe Urban, had stopped by his home on January 6th, but he had since left Colorado, and police couldn't find him to verify his visit until December of 1990, almost nine years after the women were murdered. Even then, the sheriff's office didn't believe that Jeff's reported timeline matched his friend's story over eight years after the short hangout, with a friend, and Jeff stayed under suspicion. If Jeff had murdered both women,

he would have had to have abducted Annette sometime between 4.30 p.m. and 5. Travel about 30 minutes south, assault her, let her redress herself, or he dress her. Then you'd have to kill her and dispose of her in the creek, drive about 10 minutes north back home, and be there in time to receive Bobby Doe's phone call at 6.20 p.m. This leaves about an hour for him to have a son. assaulted, murdered, and disposed of Annette's body without leaving any evidence of her in his car

on his body, right at his home. Everything also had to appear completely normal in time for him to be shoveling snow in the driveway by the time his friend arrived just before 7 p.m. as the friend told police Jeff was doing when he arrived. Jeff claimed his friend left just after 8 p.m. But by that time Bobby Joe was already leaving the bar. He would have arrived. in Breckenridge no earlier than 8.30 p.m. So Bobby Joe would have had to wait over half an hour outside somewhere in minus 20 degree weather rather than wait with her friends back at the bar for her husband to arrive. She'd left alone because her other friends weren't finished with their night out. One question that has definitely serviced over the years is, would the bartender have not let Bobby

Joe stay warm inside while she waited. If Jeff had stayed home and waited for Bobby Joe to arrive, she would have made it home around 8.30 at the very earliest, it would take time to assault her and drive about six miles to where her body was found, shoot her, and leave. And before sunrise, he was filling out a missing person's report. It's easy to see how Jeff remained a suspect, because it was technically possible for him to committed both murders, especially when one victim was his wife and the other had his business card. But it didn't make much sense and the timeline was extremely tight. The zip tie on Bobby Joe's wrist pointed to someone who wanted more time with her

and couldn't otherwise get it. Also, as Bobby Joe's husband, who she lived with, he typically had access to her most nights, so there would have to be a compelling reason for him to commit two murders in one night. night. Some people theorized that he and Annette were having some sort of affair, and Bobby Joe found out. But the order of the actual events really doesn't support that theory at all. And would you murder someone after you gave them your business card? Well, not if you had any brains at all. I mean, that just kind of flies in the face of any type of common sense. Because you're basically

saying, here's the connection between myself and this person, eventually someone's going to find. I think what's scary about that proposition is he supposedly gave her this card sometime before when he picked her up hitchhiking. But that seems like a scary idea that you could give someone a business card and weeks or months or whatever time frame it is later on. They're murdered. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up. for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency. We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer.

For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, blood and water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. And you're getting a call from police saying, hey, why is your business card in this murder person's possession. Yeah. So for me, a couple of things there.

Number one, maybe don't hand out your business card to random strangers without really any reason. Number two, why would you hand out a business card to someone that you picked up hitchhiking? He was some type of appliance repair guy. So, and I think more if it's pretty well known that he was a chatty guy. And maybe he just thought, hey, I'll take any chance. to drum up possible future business. But, you know, it did kind of strike me as strange that you're hitchhiking, someone picks you

up, and then the next thing you know, they're giving you their business card. Yeah, I think in a town of 900, you want to drum up any kind of business you can. So him giving her business card in my mind wouldn't be out of the question. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. If you love chilling mysteries, unsolved cases, and a touch of mind. Mom style humor, Moms and Mysteries is the podcast you've been searching for. Hey guys, I'm Mandy. And I'm Melissa.

Join us every Tuesday for Moms and Mysteries, your gateway to gripping, well-researched true crime stories. Each week, we deep dive into a variety of mind-boggling cases as we shed light on everything from heist to whodontes. We're your go-to podcast for Mysteries with a motherly touch. Subscribe now to Moms and Mysteries wherever you get your podcast. Soon after Jeff's friend, Joe Urban, was found. and his alibi was verified, Bobby Joe's gloves were analyzed by the lab again. In 2002, DNA testing of the bloody tissues

found among her belongings proved that the blood was not Bobby Joe's, as had been assumed this entire time. In 1982, the tests available could only tell the blood type of the sample, which did match Bobby Joe's blood type. It was later found that the blood on the tissue, was male, but it did not belong to Jeff Oberholzer. Police now believed that Bobby Joe fought back against her attacker and likely caused his nose to bleed, causing him to have to use the tissues that he later discarded.

While the bloody tissue seemed to clear Jeff Oberholzer, police wanted to rule him out through other means. And they again spoke to Jeff's friend Joe Urban. Joe claimed that he had arrived when Jeff was shoveling snow. They watched TV, went to a gas station where he tried to pawn a watch or bracelet, and then went back to Jeff's house to watch more TV. During this time, Jeff apparently began to worry about Bobby Joe because she should have been back already. Some people suspected that Jeff and Joe killed the two women together.

But there was never any physical evidence of. that, and the timeline still doesn't make sense for that to happen. Eventually, Jeff Oberholzer was moved to the back burner. Police started to look at another suspect they felt easily fit the bill. Thomas Edward Luther was awaiting trial for assaulting a woman with a hammer and raping her after picking her up while she was hitchhiking. He allegedly bragged to other inmates during this time about the Orange Sock murders. Multiple inmates, reportedly half a dozen, reported him talking about being responsible for the two murders, and police conducted two separate polygraph test with him.

He failed both. In April 1982, a man who had served time with Luther in Summit County actually went to the Summit County Sheriff's Office in person to tell them about what Luther had said. This man, Dylan Curtis, had been Luther cellmate for about six weeks and claimed Luther had mentioned, an abandoned mine shaft near Frisco where you could easily hide a body. He claimed that Luther and his girlfriend Sue Potter had found the mine while riding horses. The belongings of Bobby Joe and Annette's that were found seemed to have been thrown out of a car. But it's puzzling that they seem to have been thrown out of the passenger side window. If someone didn't pull over to the side of the road multiple times and throw out the

belongings, then they had to have been thrown out of the passenger window. If Dylan Curtis, in fact, was involved, this information would seem to implicate Sue Potter as a possible accomplice. Police showed Sue's photo to the pharmacy staff who had helped Annette the day she vanished, and they were unable to confirm or rule out whether the dark-haired woman seen with the net was Sue. Unfortunately, and it's unknown why, Curtis wasn't as to. asked for a statement until over 10 years later. Other inmates claim Luther said he was responsible for a murder, after which he left the woman face down on a creek, just like Annette was later found.

Police stuck with it and eventually got permission to take Luther's DNA. And to their surprise, the testing showed that Luther was not the male who had bled on Bobby Joe's belongings. Police were confident he was not their man, and he's currently serving a 48-year sentence for another murder. A bit of a reach as a suspect was a man named Tracy Petracelli. He had shot his fiancé to death in October 1981. Though it happened in Seattle, Washington, five months later, he fled and went on a killing spree throughout multiple states and apparently stayed at the Holiday Inn in Frisco, Colorado,

where Annette was employed. His DNA did not match the source of the blood on Bobby John. Joe's gloves. However, he didn't just kill alone during his spree. He would find men and convince them to become accomplices committing robberies with him. He would then murder these men. One accomplice of an attempted robbery and murder of a Thornton Colorado car salesman is still unidentified. Police believe that his accomplice was likely murdered and that Petracelli hit his body. but the possibility that an unidentified accomplice of his was the source of the blood remained. Investigators also could not rule out that perhaps Thomas Luther or Tracy Petracelli

were at the scene and responsible and that it was a male accomplice who had bled, accounting for the lack of a DNA match. Tracy Petrocelli was sentenced to death row for his crimes, but in 2017, An appeals court overturned his death sentence while still upholding his conviction. He remains in prison for three murders. Police had to look for more suspects, and they had to ask a hard question. Was the killer of the two women, an outsider, or someone from their own community? They figured that both women were intelligent, and while used to hitchhiking, they would have never taken a ride from someone who looked like they had bad intentions. They had to have been picked up by someone they knew or someone who looked friendly and by all accounts normal.

The women were also assumed to have been wary of cars with multiple male passengers. But some speculate that on an especially cold night, they may have accepted a ride from a car with a female passenger. In late 1991, Unsolved Mysteries was contacted about the Orange Sock murders. The film crew traveled to the South Park County, Colorado area to the exact spot in Sacramento Creek where Annette Schnee was found. They filmed Summit County Sheriff's Office Detective Richard Eaton, exactly 10 years almost to the hour since Annette had been seen alive in 1982. You can watch an updated segment on the Unsolved Mysteries Season 6 with Dennis Farina. On Amazon Prime, the show introduced a national audience to the case, but did not lead to any arrests. Police, desperate for answers, didn't turn away any offers of help.

In 2006, two psychics working on a show called Sensing Murder led to more investigations. The 11th Judicial District Homicide Task Force spent hours investigating different sites near the Sacramento Creek area. The two psychics, who were interviewed separately, both told investigators the same first name of the suspect, a suspect on police radar who hadn't been publicly named. Both psychics mentioned a car that sounded similar to a Ford Ranchero. As it happened, one of Summit County's biggest drug dealers at the time drove a similar car. The psychics also believed that Annette was possibly not killed where she was found in the Sacramento Creek. It was their theory that she was instead killed elsewhere. And her body floated downstream as the snow melted.

As with the Unsolved Mystery Show, the psychic interaction didn't lead to any brakes. In 2008, articles pleading for information about the murders of Bobby Joe Oberholzer and Annette Schnee asked for information on an old Colorado truck license plate with the number ZD-25. No further information about why this license plate was considered relevant. than at all was ever released, but a photograph accompanying an article shows a registration expiration of 1976, but doesn't mention whether it is for that same license plate in question. This particular article also asked for information on two brothers who had rented a home in Placer Valley on Road 6 near Alma. The information stated that they were wanted for questioning and were not suspects. The brothers had a gray Chevrolet or Dodge Van may have been from Kentucky or Tennessee

and had been employed by Nordic plumbing in the 1980s. None of this, as far as we can find in records, has ever been mentioned again to the public. In 2011, the Colorado Cold Case Homicide Task Force took a fresh look at the two murders. The task force meets just twice a year and resources are very limited. They worked on strategies and game plan what they might be able to do as new techniques came along. Finally, in 2020, investigators announced that they were hopeful that DNA would break the case, and soon they were able to begin using forensic genetic genealogy to ID a suspect. It's been reported that there were certain leads that made investigators look toward one suspect, but those details are yet to be released. Retired detective Charlie McCormick

contacted a company called United Data Connect, and they were able to partner with Metro Denver Crime Stoppers and the Summit County Sheriff's Department to figure out that the person Bobby Joe had injured was still alive and was still living less than 40 miles from the crime scenes. On February 24, 2021, a man named Alan Lee Phillips was pulled over during a traffic stop in Clear Creek County, Colorado. The traffic stop was in Dumont. Colorado, about an hour northeast of Breckenridge, he was immediately handcuffed and told that he was being arrested on suspicion of murder in the cases of Bobby Joe Oberholzer and Annette Schnee in 1982. Phillips, born on February 6, 1951, had just turned 70 years old. He worked as a part-time mechanic.

He has been charged with kidnapping, premeditated murder. and assault with a deadly weapon in both cases. Once genealogist built his family tree for police, they could not rule out Alan Lee Phillips as being the killer, and police tiled him for six weeks until they finally arrested him in Dumont, just weeks ago. They have not yet revealed how they obtained a DNA sample of his to compare to the sample from the bloody mitten or the bloody tissues.

Interestingly, during the press conference announcing the arrest, An officer was asked if the DNA matched the sample from the mitten and was told, quote, we're not going to talk about that right now. According to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, Alan Lee Phillips had been arrested for burglary and assault in 1973. But the records were purged in 2002. An old mugshot style photo of him circulated online with news of his arrest shows a photo that looks similar. to the photo of the unidentified man found with Annette's things, although it's hard to say if it is, and police have not shared an opinion. The background in his mugshot style photo is plain, and he's not holding anything with information on it, like in what you would think of as a

regular mugshot, though it actually may be a booking photo of some sort. Why Annette would have anything relating to Phillips's unknown, unless like Jeff Oberholzer, he had given her a ride before, or somehow he dropped it accidentally when he dumped her body. As we mentioned, police are tight lips so far about how Phillips could have carried out the double murder. But the most likely scenario is that Phillips headed from his home in Dumont, southwest to Breckenridge on Highway 9. He then picked up a net Schnee who wanted to go home near the drive. drugstore. She hadn't called out of work at Flipside Bar that night, and her friends and family described her as very responsible, a person who would have always called in if she wasn't going

to show up for work. In this case, when Phillips drove past her house and kept heading towards Hoosier Pass, Annette probably quickly understood that she had accepted her ride with the wrong person. Annette's home was four miles north of the Hoosier Pass parking lot near where Bobby Joe was found. It's unknown whether she was. she was ever bound with zip ties like Bobby Joe had been, but since he killed Annette first. Maybe she also fought back like we know that Bobby Joe did, and that was the reason he even tried to bind Bobby Joe. Phillips would have driven down an empty side road and assaulted Annette. As she redressed herself, she put on only one orange ankle sock and another different sock,

which was longer and had a blue stripe on it. The theory is that Annette broke away at some point, and as she ran from Phillips through the snow, he shot her in the back. He then headed back toward Breckenridge on Highway 9 and picked up Bobby Joe at the Minutemort and headed south with her. Hoosier Pass with a parking lot, just 10 miles south of the Minut Mart,

is a likely location that Phillips may have pulled over to try and assault Bobby Joe. They had about five minutes left on their drive until the town of Alma, where she would have wanted to get out of the car. It would have been his last chance to zip tie and restrain her. Bobby Joe fought back and after injuring Phillips escaped the car with only one wrist zip tied. She probably escaped the car on the Hoosier Summit Pass parking lot and ran toward the highway, making it just over 300 feet south before she was shot twice and left for dead in the snow, just 20 feet from Highway 9. Phillips probably then got back into his vehicle and headed south through

Fairplay and then north on Highway 285 toward Denver, heading west on Highway 70 to Dumont, where he lived. At some point, he threw Bobby Joe's backpack along with the bloody tissues out the window on Highway 285, and a while later, her license. It's still unknown who the dark-haired woman in the pharmacy with Annette in Breckenridge was, or if she was involved in any way, in Annette's case. People have speculated that they had to have some peripheral connection, no matter how small, because Annette was buying things for her. But then again, many people have paid for things for people panhandling rather than give them money outright.

The staff at the pharmacy said the woman reminded Annette that she wanted cigarettes, but it could have been as simple as a stranger reminding the kind of person. person who had offered to buy them something what they actually wanted from the store. They could have easily been a tourist passing through Breckenridge. Perhaps she had been camping for a few days and wanted some cigarettes on her way out of town. Maybe Annette was paying her back for doing her a favor by giving her a ride. Phillips felt so comfortable that he stayed within two hours of Breckenridge for the rest of his life. In the same state he allegedly committed at least two murders.

Sheen's mother, Eileen Franklin, who's now 88 years old, never thought she would see the day that her daughter's killer was named. Sadly, with getting news of that name, she now feels ready for the end of her own life. For decades, she waited for closure she felt would never come. Now she may find her answers. Detective McCormick, who is now a private investigator, only charged Annette Schnee's family, just $1 each year for his services. thought for years that DNA would be the key to solving this case. It appears that he was right. McCormick had started working on a Nett's case in 1989 when Codas was in its infancy and had seen how it changed crime fighting. To put it simply, Codas is the DNA database used by law enforcement

to find suspects who matched DNA samples taken from crime scenes or victim's bodies. By July 2020, though, McCormick had started losing hope that the culprit would ever be found. He had years earlier publicly voiced concern about testing backlogs in at least 15 states and stressed the importance of filling in what he called potholes in the DNA system. He figured that even if the killer's DNA was in the system, it wouldn't matter because testing may never occur. The DNA testing required for a match used to cost around $3,000 and could take up to three months. Now a sample match can cost just $30 and be ready in only 30 minutes. A large problem contributing to the backlog of cases that could be solved through DNA matches is that

some states wait until felons are released from prison to collect DNA for databases. I think most people believe more that if someone is sitting in jail or prison responsible for other crimes, they will be linked through their DNA. But in reality, someone could be sitting in prison right now. Maybe someone's sentenced to life, but their DNA has never been entered into the system. So therefore, no match would be found, even though authorities already had their suspect. along with those still in prison, there were some suspects who died while serving their sentences. So they were never released. So to me, more, if that definitely highlights the downside of waiting until someone is released before their DNA is entered in the system.

It seems like a much better process to do it up front, which I believe some places do. you're sure is heck going to get a lot more hits that way. I think part of the problem is there's not a universal set of guidelines to make a smooth transaction happen across the country, across the entire system. You know, if that was in place, maybe that would eliminate a lot of this confusion and questioning. And a lot of it comes down to budget. You know, a lot of these places don't have budget to do DNA tests. and that can affect how long it takes to solve a crime. Well, isn't that normally the case, right?

Almost everything comes down to money, budget restrictions. And I'm sure that's why some locales don't immediately put in every single person's DNA because that's a lot of money. Yeah, it's staggering, but I know in this country right now, for example, there's hundreds of thousands of probably not millions. of untested rape kits sitting on shelves that they just don't have the budget to analyze and to do DNA testing on and how many different crimes might be solved if they were able to do that or linked and how many bad guys might be taken off the street if there's a way to make that

happen. And I'm sure eventually we will get there. But again, you know, the time, the money, it all has to be factored in. Park County detects. Sergeant Wendy Kippel, who started officially working on the case in 2013, but had known about the case and helped out here and there since 1989, felt relieved by the news of Phillips' arrest. She described the local news reporters the way that cold cases affect you uniquely, saying, quote, you just can't let go of the cases until finally they're solved. Hopefully news of the arrest is of comfort for Bobby Joe's husband, Jeff Oberholter. He lived under heavy suspicion for years.

Plenty of people suspected him merely because he was the husband. But Annette, having his business cards, cemented his guilt in people's minds. Apparently, he was a grieving husband who had just lost the woman that he planned to have children with. It was just days before she vanished. It was announced to friends and family that they planned to have children. Just recently, Jeff Oberholzer released a public statement through police, which read in part. The arrest of Alan Phillips for the murder of his wives, Bobby Joe, and Annette Schrofts. Shee, puts an end of this horrific nightmare, along with all his life in the last few decades,

and hope for peace. I can't thank everyone who never gave up on the quest of truth. They're arguably very devoted and extraordinary individuals. Phillips is finally in the hands of the judicial system. May justice be provided. I think it was interesting how Jeff referred to both Annette and Bobby Joe as his wives. I think maybe he felt so connected to both. of them that in death he called them his wives. Yeah, that really kind of struck me because obviously only one of the victims was his real wife. But I think you're right. Morph, I think their deaths were so connected and throw on top of that the fact that, you know, people for years and years and some people still to this day think of this guy as a murderer. I mean, you see it. If you see it

you go on certain forms today. You know, people get that in their head and they cannot let go. Even when a viable suspect has been arrested and, you know, is set to go on trial, it doesn't always change their way of thinking. Jackie Lucas Walker, Bobby Joe's daughter, who now has a daughter herself, says that she can now arrest, known justice will be served. Metro Denver Crime Stoppers helped raise. funds to enable the use of genetic genealogy in the orange sock murders, thanks to Bobby Joe

fighting back against her attacker and his careless disposal of the bloody tissues and a net sock after 39 years. She has helped investigators solve her own murder and the murder of a fellow Breckenridge hitchhiker. Of course, Alan Lee Phillips is innocent until proven guilty and he was scheduled to be formally charged with the murders of Annette Schnee and Barbara Oberholzer on March 8th, 2021. Alan Lee Phillips is currently in jail in Park County, Colorado being held without bond. Authorities are still accepting and seeking information on the murders of Bobby Joe Oberholzer and Annette Schnee and about Allen Lee Phillips himself. Investigators are still looking to tie Phillips to any other crimes he may have committed throughout his life, most agree that it's unlikely for one person

to decide to commit two murders in one night and then never want to kill again. So investigators do not want to leave any loose ends out there when it comes to Phillips. Anyone with information is encouraged to call the designated tip line. It's 720-248-8-38-378. You can remain anonymous and call Crime Stoppers at 720913-7867 or leave a tip online at Metro Denvercrimesoppers.com. There is still a reward of up to $2,000 for useful information in this case. So Morph as we wrap up this case, obviously it's a very interesting case.

It's been on many people's radars for, a large number of years. You know, one of the things that I want to go back to is, you know, this idea that Jeff Oberholzer committed these two murders. You know, for how many years did this linger? Did this kind of sit as a cloud over his head? Because, you know, think about it. How is he supposed to sway public opinion? How is he supposed to prove that he didn't do something. Right? We always talk about that when we get into the criminal trial phase,

the prosecution has the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone did what they're saying they did. But with a guy like Jeff, with a husband who is surrounded, you know, in a cloud of suspicion, what do they do? How do they prove? And should they have? to, I guess is maybe an even bigger question. And on top of that, he's living in a town with less than a thousand people.

So who knows when he goes into a store or restaurant, wherever he went, he probably had to be wondering who's looking at me, who's wondering if I'm a killer. And we mentioned earlier, he has an appliance repair business. Did that affect his business? Was he able to support himself and pay his rent? or did his business suffer because he was under that cloud of suspicion? Yeah, I mean, we don't have all the answers, you know, for all of those questions. But I don't think it's, you know, that hard to figure out that there were people that probably

thought, you know, I'll go somewhere else because this guy's a potential murderer. And so, you know, you just feel bad for people like that when it's proven that they, they didn't do what has been kind of bandied about or levied against them. Now, this case is still in flux, but let's assume for a minute that the prosecution is able to get a conviction against Allen Lee Phillips. Okay. I think you can take that as proof that Jeff didn't have anything to do with these murders. The minute his wife was murdered, his life was changed forever, but then you add on top of it all of these other ancillary things. You mentioned it, his business.

Walking, you know, around town with people giving you sideways glances, you know what that means when you get that look. You have to. That, you know, this is a person who is questioning. Am I looking at a murderer? I just don't know how people live underneath that type of. of cloud of suspicion. It has to be extremely difficult. One thing that really interesting me about this case is how both victims were tied by those

orange socks. I have to think that in a small area, eventually the cases would have been connected where one woman is found dead and one woman goes missing in this small, unpopulated area. But the orange socks clinched it. It made it easy to know that, hey, these two separate cases are tied together. Yeah, no doubt. I think it'll be interesting to see if there's any more information that comes out, you know, whether there's a confession or it comes out during trial to see, okay, was that a mistake on the part of the killer? Or was that the killer kind of, you know, playing around with police saying, hey, I'm going to tell you that these two are connected. Now it's up to you to figure it out. Yeah, I think we'll have to wait and see what happens as the trial moves along,

or if he takes some kind of deal and has to share information. Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's one of the things that makes a case like this fascinating. You have the unsolved piece of it for so many years. And now, because of technology, we're on the verge of finding out whether or not this individual will be held responsible. So you're going to have some finality there. But it's also a case that we can follow, right? Because there's still more to come. So I find these types of cases extremely fascinating. Thanks goes out to Sunny Lannon for research and writing assistance in this episode. As always, if you love the show, go out, give us a five-star rating, leave a review, but keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the criminology podcast goes a long, long way.

If you want to find us on social media, we're on Twitter with the handle at Criminology Pod. You can also find us on Facebook by searching for Criminology Podcast or by joining our Facebook discussion group, criminology podcast, discussion and fans. All right, Morf, so that is it for our episode. on the Orange Sock murders. Fascinating to say the least. But we'll be back with everyone next Saturday night with an all new episode of criminology. So until then for Mike and Morf. We'll talk to you next week.

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