Criminology - The Sumter County Does

Episode Date: February 6, 2021

In August 1976, two bodies, one male and one female, were found off the side of the road east of Sumter, South Carolina. Neither of the bodies had any identification with them. Police determined that both individuals had been shot to death. They had very little evidence to use to solve the two most crucial questions in this case. Who were the two victims, and who was responsible for their murders? Join Mike and Morf as they discuss these two individuals who became known collectively as the Sumter County Does, and individually as Jock and Jane Doe. Police tried everything they could to identify the pair, including publishing dental charts in the hopes their dentists may recognize the information. It took more than 40 years before genetic genealogy determined the pair as James Freund and Pamela Buckley. But, would the police be able to find their killer or killers now that they knew their identities?  You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology An Emash Digital Production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 145 of the criminology podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Mr. Morford, what is going on with you, brother? Not much. Just trying to stay warm. It's a little bit chilly today. Oh, don't give me that. It is 26 degrees where I am. I do not want to hear it's a little chilly. I like to razz my friends up north.

I miss, believe it or I, I do miss the snow and being in that little bit of environment, but, you know, I'll take the heat and the sun anytime over that. Sorry. Yeah, the way I figured it, you miss seeing the snow, but you don't miss dealing with the snow, is what I always think of how people must feel when they move from the north down into warmer climates. Yeah, that's a good way to say it. Looking at it's one thing, but being in it totally something different. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts.

Before we jump into this episode, we had Donna Salmon, Anthony Rubino, Casey Aspen Wall, and James Harrington. So some great new support. We really appreciate that. Yeah, thank you so much. That really goes a long way to helping the show. And if there's anyone out there that would like to support criminology, they can do so by going to patreon.com slash criminology.

All right, buddy, let's jump right in. In this episode, we are discussing the murders of a man and a woman whose bodies were found in Sumter County, South Carolina. Police had their work cut out for them and trying to find out who had killed these people. And I think really just as much of a challenge trying to figure out who the two victims were because they had no identification on them. The mystery of who this couple was stumped investigators for over four decades until they were finally identified using genetic genealogy.

On August 9th, 1976, at 6.20 a.m., about 25 miles east of Sumter, South Carolina, a truck driver spotted the bodies of two people in the brush off the side of the road. he quickly contacted the owner of a local store, who in turn called the police. Police arrived at the scene and began to investigate and recover the bodies of two deceased adults who appeared to be in their 20s, a male and a female. It was quickly evident to them that both had been murdered, the victims of gunshots. The bodies were down a dirt road called Locklear Road off the highway, right near the Florence, South Carolina County line.

This is a somewhat secluded area between two highways. 5 and US 341. And it's an area used mostly by truck drivers to rest somewhere close to the highway. This was a quiet area in a peaceful county. This wasn't the kind of thing people in Sumter County were used to. A local man described hearing a car and gunshots in the early morning hours of August 9th, leading police to believe that this couple may have had their car stolen and were shot as victims of this carjacking. There are a few reports that a man saw someone get out of a car before hearing gunshots and then saw the same car turn around and speed back toward the highway.

These reports don't identify the witness. So it's unclear if there is one eyewitness and one man who only heard gunshots or whether this is the same man giving somewhat different reports or if one of the reports has been missing. interpreted. Either way, the timeline matches up that these gunshots and this car were related to the murders of the victims that would come to be called the Sumter County Doe's, or individually, Jane Doe and jock Doe. It's been reported that the Sumter County Doe were shot execution style because they were first shot in the back and finished off with shots to the throat. But later reports state that they were each shot three times in the chest and also in the back. Not the throats as first reported. There are marks of some kind on their throats and the photos of them at the

crime scene, but they don't appear to be actual wounds. It's still unclear what they are, and they don't seem to appear at every angle like they should. So it's probably safe to say that they aren't bullet wounds as first thought. Police didn't have a lot to work with because there was not much evidence found at the crime scene. As we made, we may, mentioned earlier, neither victim had any identification on them, and they also had no money in their possession. Curiously, they did have expensive watches and jewelry still on their bodies. To police, I believe this helped bolster the carjacking theory, because if it had solely been a robbery, the jewelry or at the very least their watches would have likely been stolen as well. The wounds to the

pair were determined to have been caused by a 357 caliber revolver. The county medical examiner combed over the bodies, making notes, and documenting what he found. Jockdo was 6'1, about 150 pounds, with brown shoulder length hair and brown eyes. He wore Levi jeans and a red t-shirt. His shirt was branded with cores and other markings. Investigators would eventually track the shirt down to the Seabring races in Seabring, Florida. In the pocket of Jock, jeans, he had a matchbook from Grant's truck stop. There were only three Grant's truck stops in the U.S. One in Idaho, one in Nevada, and one in Arizona. Investigators believe that Jock visited one of these locations before making it to Sumter, South Carolina. He wore no underwear

and still had sandals on his feet. He had a four-inch appendectomy scar, as well as scars on his back and shoulder, suggesting that he may have played contact sports. He was wearing a yellow gold boule of a watch with a readable serial number and a 14-carat gold ring with the initials J-P-F engraved on the inside. It had a blue sapphire stone and has been described as being of a Far East design. The medical examiner placed Jock as being between 18 and 30 years old. That's a pretty wide age range because he was thin, wearing the style of clothes that a younger person. He was person would and his face looked young. But his teeth told investigators a very different story. Jock's teeth made the examiner think that he was actually on the older end of the range.

His teeth were to some experts that of someone older than 27 years old. He had some specific teeth extracted, the third molars, which don't come into your mouth until you're around 18 years old. And it was noted that the extractions didn't seem to be very recent work, indicating that he was most likely in his late 20s. He had had a lot of dental work done, some of it very unique and some of it done possibly outside of the United States. A forensic dentist from Spartanburg, South Carolina, Dr. Charles Hanna Jr. tried to use this information back in 1977 to spur Jock's dentist to come forward and help with identification. Dr. Hanna was a member of the National Association of Identification Officers.

He and two technicians traveled to Sumter and pulled the male dose teeth to examine them more closely and analyzed the metal in his fillings. Investigators really locked in on Jock's teeth. because they felt it might be the biggest clue they had in identifying him. Jock had a unique root canal, a rare type called a fluted root canal, and it appeared that he was about halfway through a full restoration of the tooth. Dr. Hanna believed the work was done very well, and that the dentist who performed Jock's root canal may have specialized in doing root canals.

Jock also had something called radio opaque in the base of his filling, which had only been in use for two years by 1976. This led Dr. Hanna to believe that Jock had undergone this procedure sometime within the year before he was murdered. Soon after the murders, Jock's dental charts and x-rays were published in dental magazines. But unfortunately, this expert dentist never came forward. Dr. Hanna pointed out that there were multiple obstacles that could possibly keep the dentist to perform the work from identifying it as theirs, even if they may have seen. it. The dental x-rays were backwards or inverted when published in the magazine, making it difficult, if not impossible, for dentists to compare them to their own records, as well as causing

them to not match the dental charts they were published with. The annotations on the charts also did not use the international terminology used by forensic dentists. The marking A was previously used to indicate amalgam in fillings. However, amalgam internationally was noted as AM. And this A would also indicate the use of acrylics. If the dentist who had performed Jock's dental work had seen the charts and thought the fillings had acrylic in them and they didn't use acrylic, they could very easily think that, okay, this was definitely not one of our patients and they wouldn't look any further. Hannah explained this discrepancy stating that the dentist at the Medical University of South Carolina at Charleston was simply an older person who had been educated when the symbols

were different. Jock's teeth wound up being a tantalizing but ultimately fruitless rabbit hole for investigative. Jane Doe was approximately 18. 25 years old. She was 5 foot 5 and weighed about 100 pounds. Her hair was a reddish brown, and it was down to her shoulders. She had blue-gray eyes and very long eyelashes. There were two prominent moles on her face near her mouth on her left cheek. Her teeth were straight, although she had fillings in all of her back teeth. She didn't have any surgical scars, had no indications that she had ever been pregnant or given birth, and her legs were unshaving. She also wore no underwear like jock. She had to have her. She had no underwear. She had no,

had on a white blouse and pink haltertop that tied in the front. Her denim jeans were short cutoffs like Daisy Dukes, and her sandals were wedges from Stridewright. They were hot pink and lavender, and the pink in her shoes matched her top. Tying her whole outfit together was a floral scarf that she had used as a belt. Jane also still had her jewelry on, three rings that looked like they were from the southwestern part of the United States. They were silver with turquoise and the inlay of a feather. The style suggested it was made by a Native American Indian or a Mexican jewelry maker or someone skilled in the southwestern type of jewelry. Both Jock and Jane were described as well-dressed by authorities and because they were nice looking and well-groomed, investigators believed they were most likely from stable, well-to-do backgrounds or homes.

It seemed extremely unlikely that two people from upscale families, wearing valuable watches would be completely unknown and unmissed for a long period of time. But there are a couple of possibilities here. One is that the couple wasn't killed in a robbery, but for some other reason. Or if they were robbed before being killed, their assailant missed some things during his escape. If someone had stolen these items and tried to pawn them, they might have drawn attention to themselves. In 1976, someone who had stolen these items would have had to, most likely, walk into a pawn shop, show their face. They wouldn't have had the opportunity that maybe

exists today of creating a fake online persona, offering these things up for sale online, and ultimately mailing them, never having to see anyone in person. Though they were described as Caucasian, Jock and Jane were also noted to have all of complexions. Because of this and the fact they appeared to have been traveling together for some time, it led many to believe that Jane and Jock Doe may have been brother and sister. In fact, that was a prevailing belief for 31 years. In 2007, former Sumter County coroner, Verna Moore, had both bodies exhumed and had the DNA collected, sequenced, and tested. this proved that the pair were not siblings and they weren't related at all.

After this finding, it was clear to police that not one, but two families out there had to be missing someone. A report states that neither of the deceased had any drugs or alcohol on their bodies. Now, this is something that has to be examined. On their bodies is very different from saying no drugs or alcohol in their systems. So this report may not even be referencing toxicology findings, but rather whether or not they had drugs or alcohol on their person. The problem is there's really nothing out there that further explains this report or references toxicology testing itself. One other small clue was noted after examining the bodies. It was apparent that Jock and Jane were not smokers.

Both Jane and Jock had fruit or fruit and ice cream in their stomachs. Investigators believed that they had eaten at a local fruit stand or ice cream stand. Someone actually came forward and told authorities that they believed they had seen Jock and Jane at a local fruit stand together, but they couldn't tell if there was anyone else with them or what kind of car they were in, if any. There are posts online about the doze being seen on a motorcycle at that fruit stand, but there's not much out there about that sighting. Fruit is very common on highways in the south, so perhaps Jane and Jock did stop at one of those places to eat and were witnessed. But the eyewitness accounts didn't conclusively ID Jane and Jock as being the people seen by witnesses.

A man from York, Nebraska ended up coming forward with possible information months after Jock and Jane Doe were found. He believed that he had done mechanical work on a van with Oregon or Washington, or Washington, license plates and that the couple, Jock and Jane, were in the van. We talked about it. One of the Grants' truck stop locations we mentioned earlier was in York, Nebraska. Unfortunately, this man couldn't add much else, so it really didn't help investigators all that much. An employee at Campgrounds of America, David Bastian, came forward and said that Jock Doe looked familiar, and that he believed he had spoken to him. In fact, this encounter was the reason that the name Jock was used for this particular Sumter County Doe rather than the traditional name John. This witness

believed that Jock and his girlfriend were at a campground in Santee, South Carolina. The witness said that the unknown man told him that his name was Jock and that he was Canadian. Jock added that his father was supposedly a very well-known Canadian doctor, but because he walked away from a medical career of his own. He had been disowned by his father. This witness played pool with Jock and said that the young Canadian man tried to pawn him an expensive ring. When authorities showed him the ring that Jock Doe was found wearing, he said it looked very similar to the one he remembered being offered. This man remembered that Jock and his young girlfriend left the Santee South Carolina campground headed for Florida

after a few days. It's important to note that this man never described the girlfriend of the man he spoke to. And we have no idea if he believed it was Sumter County Jane Doe or not. The witness was also going from memory after seeing Jock several months earlier. Jock and his girlfriend apparently made it to Florida unharmed as they stopped back at the same Sancti South Carolina Campground after having already been to Florida. Unfortunately, all of COA's records from the campground were destroyed in a house fire by the time investigators got around to looking for them.

Jock and Jane Doe were interred on August 14th, 1977 at Bethel United Methodist Church's Cemetery in Oswego, South Carolina. They were listed as unknown male and unknown female. People came forward with theories about who the Sumter County Does were, but none really seemed promising. Police thought that the best possibility was that the male might be a man named Jock from Canada, with a doctor as a father. But even that seemed weak. Surely a prominent doctor's son disappearing would have someone searching for him.

Due to the olive undertones of their skin and the fact that Jane Doe didn't shave her legs, Some people thought she may have been from outside the United States, perhaps as an exchange student or an immigrant from the Middle East. Others theorized that the unidentified couple's murders were connected to drug smuggling because of the circumstances. Their anonymity and the proximity to the interstate where they were found. Others thought that the pair could have been racing fans. Jock had a Seabring racist shirt. and that year, the Southern 500 was in Darlington, South Carolina, over Labor Day weekend. Maybe it was them at the K-O-A campground, and they were just staying there between races.

For 40 years, the pair were known as Jock Doe and Jane Doe. Their story was well known in the area and then spread beyond the county to other parts of the state and country, where they would be called the Sumter County Doe's. The couple's story was featured on an early episode of Unsolved Mysteries. But the photos they used in the episode were of their bodies at the crime scene at odd angles, rather than the clear post-mortems or even a good sketch. And there weren't many leads generated by the show. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered.

No. Wonder which emergency. We just walked in the door, and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved, until new technology allowed investigation. to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020. Blood and water. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. If you love chilling mysteries, unsolved cases,

and a touch of mom-style humor, Moms and Mysteries is the podcast you've been searching for. Hey guys, I'm Mandy. And I'm Melissa. Join us every Tuesday for Moms and Mysteries, your gateway to gripping, well-researched, true crime stories. Each week, we deep dive into a variety of minds. mind-boggling cases as we shed light on everything from heist to whodunit.

We're your go-to podcast for Mysteries with a Motherly Touch. Subscribe now to Moms and Mysteries wherever you get your podcast. If you love chilling mysteries, unsolved cases, and a touch of mom-style humor, moms and mysteries is the podcast you've been searching for. Hey guys, I'm Mandy. And I'm Melissa. Join us every Tuesday for Moms and Mysteries, your gateway to gripping, well-researched true crime stories. Each week, we deep dive into a variety of mine.

boggling cases as we shed light on everything from heist to whodontas. We're your go-to podcast for Mysteries with a Motherly Touch. Subscribe now to Moms and Mysteries wherever you get your podcast. Finally on January 21st, 2021, Jane and Jock's identities were revealed to the world by the Sumter County Sheriff's Office and the DNA Doe Project. Victims Advocate Volunteer and Citizen Sleuth Matt McDaniel was a drive-toe. force behind their DNA match, as he directly told the Sumter County Sheriff's Office that they should contact the DNA Doe Project. They finally did so in June 2019, and the DNA profiles

of both those were uploaded into Jedmatch and Family Tree DNA. Jock and Jane were identified as James P. Frone and Pamela May Buckley. Both of their families have made requests to have their remains removed from Bethel United Methodist Church, they will likely be reburied, perhaps with proper funerals closer to home and closer to their loved ones who have missed them for years. It's still unknown at this time, how and when James and Pamela met, but authorities believe they met hitchhiking. James Paul Frone was born in Fitchburg, Massachusetts on September 16, 1946. This would have made him 30 years old at the time he was murdered.

His mother was from Ohio, and his father was a native Pennsylvania, born to recent immigrants from Germany and Ireland. They lived in Leominster, Massachusetts, until they later moved to Lancaster in Pennsylvania. This was 25 miles south of his father's hometown in Lebanon. In high school, James was on the basketball team and in the football club. He was also in the English club and Peanuckle. Club. He graduated from McCaskey High School in June, 1964, and a month later, joined the Army.

He was sent to Maryland for training as an auto repairman. In early 1965, James got married at Covenant United Methodist Church in Lancaster to Charlene Albright. He and his wife, apparently his high school sweetheart, had a daughter together. Following their marriage, James was stationed in Germany. James's father, Adam, passed away in 1966 from a heart attack. He was pretty young, only 49 years old, and James was stationed in Germany at the time that it happened. There's not much information about when James returned home or really what happened in regards to his marriage, but things must have been rough. James possibly could have been unfaithful because in 1971, Sherylene filed for divorce, and by 1974, he was taken to court, charged with

non-support of a child born out of wedlock. This indicated that he most likely had a second child outside of his marriage. James ended up paying child support, though, and the charges were dropped. James was last heard from in December 1975 on Christmas Day. His last known address was 333, West Walnut Street in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. James' family waited for 10 years without a clue what happened to him. In 1985, they attempted to have James declared legally dead, but ran in the legal hurdles. His ex-wife made another attempt to declare James dead in 1988, which succeeded. James Paul Fron is listed as legally dead as of 1983 in the United States Social Security Index, but in that index, it's common to list people as dead seven years after their date of disappearance. It's unclear why

the 1985 attempt to have James declared dead was unsuccessful. It's also not known who James may have had a child out of wedlock with, but his daughter he had with Charlene is still living. James's mother died in 2004, so she would never learn what happened to her son. Pamela Bay Buckley was born in 1951 in Redwood County, Minnesota. She was 25 years old when she was murdered. Her father was a native of Redwood Falls, Minnesota. In high school, Pamela was in the Spanish club and was the Redwood Falls Snow Queen. She was ready to be Miss Redwood Falls, 1971. But she wanted to travel in a band that she was in, a trio called Sun Lending. Pamela moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado. And in 1972, she married a man named Gary Kennel. By 1975, the marriage was a woman.

over and the couple was in the midst of a divorce. Pamela was last heard from on December 1st, 1975. Gary later remarried, but it looks like his second wife, unfortunately, passed as well. Pamela's father, Robert, passed away in 2014 and in his obituary, Pamela is listed as preceding him in death. So, more if I think definitely at that time, The family firmly believed that Pamela was dead. One interesting thing that I just noticed was that both James and Pamela vanished or were last seen by their families in December of 1975. And then they were found together later on in 1976 in South Carolina. So to vanish from two different parts of the country, wind up in another part of the country.

But it didn't seem they knew each other before. beforehand is pretty interesting. Well, and maybe, you know, it lends some credence to the theory that they met hitchhiking or, you know, they met somewhere along the way in their travels. So now the mystery as to the identities of the Sumter County Do's assault. But another one remains, who killed James and Pamela? And why? In December, 1976, just four months after their murders, a man was arrested for driving law

under the influence in Laa of South Carolina. His name was Lonnie George Henry, a 60-year-old truck driver from Wadesboro, North Carolina. During their arrest, a 357 magnum was found in his car when it was searched. The serial number of the gun was partially filed off, which caused investigators to test it for ballistics to see if it matched any crimes. And it turned out it was the weapon that killed James and Pamela. With this ballistics match,

police felt that they had their best break yet in the case. case, but things were not as black and white as they appeared to be. Police asked Lonnie Henry flat out if he killed the young couple only months before, and he denied that he had anything to do with it. He also provided an alibi, which apparently checked out. He said he had been visiting his sick wife in the hospital on the day of the murders, a state away in North Carolina. Police asked Henry to take a polygraph, and he agreed. and according to police, he passed it. But this didn't get Lonnie Henry off the hook.

He still had to explain how he got the gun. Henry told police that he was given the gun as a gift by his brother, Jim Henry. Some people have claimed that Lonnie Henry also made statements that he bought the gun from a fellow trucker. And there's a rumor out there that when police questioned Jim Henry about the gun, he stated that his brother Lonnie got the gun and filed the serial number off. He then concocted a story about buying it from a trucker. And I think more if this is what is so tough in some of these cases, I mean, you're dealing with things that happened, what, 45 years ago?

It's hard to tell what's true, what's accurate after all these years. Now add on to that the fact that both Henry brothers are now deceased. So there's no possibility to even go back to either one of them and ask them additional questions. And I think it's unknown. The extent to which police really questioned or investigated Jim Henry regarding what, if any role he had in the murders. But what police did verify was that the gun was apparently stolen. during a 1974 home robbery in the Raleigh-Durham area of North Carolina.

Lonnie Henry on paper is the closest thing to a suspect. He was found with a murder weapon. He was a truck driver, so he would probably be familiar with this secluded area, near where the bodies were found, that truck drivers frequented. Truckers often give hitchhiker's rides. But he had an alibi for the day of the murders and passed a polygraph test. Now, make of that what you will, know about the admissibility of polygraph test. As we mentioned, Lonnie Henry died in 1982 without

ever being charged. I think one of the most mind-blowing aspects of this case is that two young people, both with families that really seemed to care about them, went unidentified for 45 years. So we couldn't find any documentation showing that either James or Pamelae was. was reported missing by their families. Did it happen? Did it not happen? We don't know for sure. I think what is safe to say is that if they were not reported missing, it's kind of a shame

because they most likely would have been identified years earlier. One thing is clear. The Sumter County Sheriff's Department seemed to do all they could over the years to bring attention to their case. The department had Jane and Jockdo's fingerprints, their dental information, descriptions, and composite sketches circulated. But no one ever connected them to James and Pamela. Even the serial number on the watch was recorded and authorities attempted to follow that lead, but it didn't pan out. Unfortunately, his bull of a watch was manufactured in 1968 and shortly after the company downsized and

destroyed a lot of their records. The information about where this watch may have been sent or sold was lost forever. That in itself may not have... In the race to reach customers... Ready, set, go! Short codes always win. Because customers open text messages from shortcodes 98% of the time. Go shortcodes!

That's why Bakes, Airlines, hospitals, and other major businesses trust shortcodes. And it's shortcodes by a mile. Leased the shortcode today at usshortcoats.com. Helped in the long run because it had been given to James by his father-in-law who worked as a tool and dye maker for Bolivah Technologies. Perhaps the easiest path that might have identified the pair earlier, or at the very least, James, was the ring on his finger.

bearing the initials JPM. And still, this was never linked to any missing person with the initials JPF. Obviously, those were his initials, James Paul Freund. So on the face, obviously, this seems like a huge clue. I mean, you have the initials of your unidentified victim. The problem is there was never a link. So you have to ask the question, why was there no link?

And maybe that question is answered by the fact that they had no missing person named James Paul Freund. Welcome to another round of boardroom or Mero Board. Today we talk retrospectives with Agile Coach Maria. Let's go. First question. You spent two hours in a team retro, but the only input you've heard is Dave's. Boardroom or Mirro board? Boardroom.

In Mero, Dave can't hog the space because everyone can't. add thoughts anonymously, online at the same time. Correct. Next. You need the team to act on feedback fast, so you turn all those retro notes into GERA tasks instantly. Mero all the way. And I can assign those tasks to teammates. You're nailing this. Now, you see hundreds of sticky notes from the retro. A real mess. But you organize them into five themes in just seconds. Miro, I basically get back an entire hour when I use its AI tools for clustering. And she's done it.

Join over 60 million people running actually enjoyable and actionable retros in Miro. Get your first three boards free at Miro.com. That's MIRO.com. James and Pamela had both been married, and James even had children. These seemingly weren't the kind of people that wouldn't be missed by someone. Because Pamela was missing in Colorado and James was known to be missing from Pennsylvania, they were never connected to South Carolina in any way. Authorities had a hard time because James was never officially reported missing at all,

just declared legally dead. Since no investigators anywhere along the way connected the dots to each other, the couple continued to go unidentified. It took until 2019 for Pamela Buckley to even be entered into the Namest database. But you'd only be thankful that DNA technology, forensics, and genetic genealogy have come so far so quickly, and that investigators in some Sumter County made the decision to employ genetic genealogy. Sketches and photos of James Freund and Pamela Buckley are out on the internet, showing them both dead and alive.

These were provided by investigators, but even if someone that knew James or Pamela had seen them, there's no guarantee they would have even recognized them. Sumter County Jane Doe was noted to have two large and unique moles on her face, and the sketches and photos of her reflect that, but the photos that have been found of Pamela Buckley don't show any of these large moles. The lack of identification of James and Pamela for such a long period of time helps illustrate, I think, some of the hurdles that investigators had going back 20, 30, 40 years ago, go. And I think this case is a little different more than the fact that, you know,

investigators had two hurdles to cross, right? First, they had to identify the victims. And then they had to try to solve the crime. Well, how do you solve the crime without knowing who the victims were? That's tough. And if you look at James, right, a lot of people have asked this question, How did a murdered man with a ring bearing his initials not get matched to a man with those initials who was missing? Well, maybe the simple answer to that question is he wasn't missing or he at least was not reported as missing at the time. And I think you have to talk about the connectivity back in that time frame.

even if he was reported missing, would that information have been available to the authorities in South Carolina, a place where this man seemingly had no connection? And then another question that gets asked, I think, regarding this case, and especially about James, is how did someone in the military who should have had dental records, photographs, and fingerprints on file? go unidentified for so long. We have to remember that in 1976, there was no such thing as a national database that everyone could access from everywhere. By the time digital databases and online databases especially were even a thing, there was already a mountain of written records for every department.

Think about it for a second. All of the police reports, missing persons reports, interviews, case files, exhibits, evidence, evidence, blogs, photographs, and more, would have to be manually scanned or typed up, and then entered into each database that was relevant. We're talking about a great number of years and a whole lot of cases that would have to be entered into these databases. It's hard to picture the actual amount of records that we're talking about. And even then, that only includes the records that survived and were not destroyed purposefully or by accident. Because some of those databases weren't available back then.

It makes you wonder how many missing people remain unidentified due to that lack of technology. I think, morph, one important thing to mention in cases like this one is that everyone can make a difference. Police departments all over the nation face budget hurdles and lack of resources. $2,300 was donated to the DNA Doe Project for the identification of these two people. And it was funded through people just like you. True crime fans listening to podcasts, dollar by dollar. Two people got their names back.

And two families were finally able to know what happened to their missing loved ones. The DNA Doe Project has a list of current cases that need funding. And you can help by visiting dna dope project.org slash project. There are currently seven cases. that they are trying to fund with timeframes ranging from 1971 to 2004. And I do think this is important. You know, you talked about the mountain of evidence and case files and all of the information that is involved in cases and departments all around the country going back years and years

and years. Well, I think a big part of that is DNA. Not every case has evidence that can produce DNA, but a lot of them do. But DNA testing is not cheap. And so my thought morph is that there is evidence sitting on shelves and evidence rooms all around the country that needs to be tested. and if it was tested and enter it into a database could potentially produce a match and help solve a case. But as these departments strapped for cash as they are, how do they prioritize? Okay. You've got this situation that happened three months ago versus a cold case that's languished

on the shelf for 40 or 50 years. You can't test everything. It takes time, it takes money. But man, we want to see more and more DNA evidence processed and tested. And it's just going to lead to more and more solved cases. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt that if shortages of money and resources weren't standing in the way, we'd see a lot more people being identified and a lot more cases being solved. And even though we're seeing a lot of that now, I think that the number would grow greatly if that wasn't a hurdle. Yeah, I think if we had a magic wand, right? If you could wave a magic wand and poof, all of this great evidence and specifically DNA could be tested and entered into a database, I think you would see a flood of cases solved.

It's also why I say people who committed murders, vicious crimes, horrific sexual assaults back in, what, the 60s, the 70s, 80s. If they're still alive, they got to be a little worried. They have to be sitting on the couch some nights wondering when they're going to get that knock at the door because they most likely know. They left something at the crime scene, whether it was semen or, you know, some other bodily fluid that could produce DNA. It just hasn't been tested yet. It can't be a good feeling for these individuals who have committed crimes. And I'm glad. I hope they're feeling that.

They should because they should have been convicted 30, 40 years ago and they've been out living their lives. And to me, this case. is just a reminder too, that we see genetic genealogy bringing all these killers out of the woodwork and for crimes they did decades ago. But we also have to remember that same genetic genealogy is helping to identify unclean victims previously put in as John Does and Jane Does because there was no way to identify them. Well, now we know that this genetic genealogy can do that, just like you can identify a killer. It can give them their names back, their identity, entities back. Yeah, I think it's a good point. I mean, I was kind of focused on solving the case and

and finding the killer. But the other very important piece of that is giving back these victims' names and helping their family, find out what happened to them, identify them, let them give them a proper burial. This wasn't DNA Doe Project's first identification of 2021. And since announcing the identities of James Freud, And Pamela Buckley, the DNA Doe Project has already identified another Doe and a victim of the Green River killer, Gary Ridgeway. The more people fund independent projects like this and the more people that upload their DNA profiles to Jedmatch, the faster these identifications will keep happening. Along these lines, Matt McDaniel, the man who helped direct the Sumter County Sheriff's Office to the DNA Doe Project, started Sumter MysteryCouple.com. try and help solve the mystery of who the Sumter County Does were. And now that site stands as a triumphant update. Notably, he believes there is still the possibility of an arrest in this case

and says that a lead he turned in could blow the case open. News reports have also recently stated that the sheriff's plan to press for an arrest in this case, which I think when you read stuff like that, you have to think that they must be investigating a valid suspect who is still a lot. So, you know, in that respect, we'll have to stay tuned to see if another shoe drops and the second half of the Sumter County Doe mystery is solved. And I think that's very important, right? We mentioned it. There were two pieces to this case. Well, the identification of, James and Pamela, that part has been solved. And that's great. But there's still this big piece out there, which is what happened to them and who was involved in their murders. I think it was important

for the families of these two people to find out what really happened to them and where they've been all these years. But that just opens up a new wound for them. Now they know their loved ones were murdered. And that's going to lead to more questions and more emotions. And that's why I think it's important that the police press on and try and get some kind of conclusion that they can pass along to these families. Yeah, it's, it's kind of staggering to me more if when I sit back and think about, you know, how many people, how many families are out there, not just in the United States, around the world, who are missing a loved one and really have no idea. what happened to them. It's very sad when you think about it in that context or families who know

that their loved ones were murdered, but they don't know who did it. They don't have that finality. You know, I think those are the heartbreaking scenarios when it comes to these unsolved cases. But like you mentioned, the identifications of not only victims, but of the killers using some of this new DNA technology is happening at a lightning pace. And to be honest with you, that is very exciting. And I'm not sure that's the right word, but because we all in the true crime community want to see these cases solved. So maybe it is the right word. Maybe it is. It's exciting to see that some amazing progress can be made 30, 40, 50 years after some of these incidents occurred. Thanks goes out to Sunny Landon for writing and research assistants in this episode.

As always, if you love the show and haven't done so yet, take a minute, go out, give us a five-star rating. Keep telling your friends about criminology. That word of mouth is amazing. If you want to find us on social media, we're on Twitter with the handle at Criminology Pod. You can also find us on Facebook by searching for Criminology Podcast or by joining our Facebook discussion group, Criminology Podcasts, Discussion and Fans. So that's it for our episode on the Sumter County Does. Hopefully more to come. It would be amazing to hear that they've identified a suspect, they've arrested a suspect.

So I think we'll all have to stay tuned for that. but we'll be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So for Mike and Morph. We'll talk to you next week. Take care, everyone. Busy work simply doesn't work. That's why Commonwealth Charter Academy offers career readiness programs that help students jumpstart their futures.

CCA, how schools should work. Visit cCA educate.me.