Criminology - The Texas Fugitives

Episode Date: June 12, 2022

Recently, people across the nation were taken with the story of escaped inmate Casey White and his accomplice, decorated corrections officer Vicky White. These types of escapee-on-the-run stories are often romanticized, the most famous being the story of Bonnie and Clyde. In 2022, Texas has had a number of escapees who went on the run rather than either face court or the sentences for which they had already been given. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss a number of recent escapee stories from the State of Texas. Kaitlin Armstrong is wanted in connection with the murder of Moriah Wilson. Matthew Edgar went on the run after being convicted of killing his 19-year-old girlfriend Livye Lewis. And Gonzalo Lopez escaped from a prison transport bus and showed how desperate he was to remain free when he was found by police. You can help support the show at patreon.com/criminology An Emash Digital production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 211 of the criminology podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Hey, Morph, what's going on with you, man? Doing good. I'm fresh. I just got out of the pool doing a little bit of water aerobics and energized and ready to get this episode pumped out. What's going on with you? You and your water aerobics, man. I just cannot picture this.

water aerobics. Every Tuesday and Thursday, it's now part of my routine. I'm loving it. Yeah, I'm doing good. Got a birthday coming up. You know, when you get to be our age, do you really look forward to these birthdays? Obviously, you want them to come because the flip side would mean something bad happened, but yeah, I don't know, man. It's getting old thing. People talked about it when I was young. I just didn't believe them, but I'm believing them now. Oh, the time goes by quick, too. It seems like the older you get, the faster the years go by and those birthdays come quick. How old are you going to be?

49 years old. You sure you're not the big 50 yet? Nope. No, I got another year for that. Well, happy early birthday. I appreciate it, man. Yeah. And quick shout out to my little guy, Jack.

He's going to be six tomorrow. Oh, I can't believe that he's going to be six years old already. It's funny. The difference between him and my daughter, she seems like her, she's just flying by and getting older by the day and Jack's been five, it seems, for three years. So, all right. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Angel Brady jump out at our highest level.

Constance Newbold. Our good friend Mary Beth Long jumped up to much higher than our highest level. We had Marianne Christopherson and Runa who jumped out at our highest level. That's a lot of great new support. We really appreciate it. Yeah, that support goes a long way and we can't thank you enough. And for anyone that would like to help support the show, they can do so by going to Patreon.com slash criminology.

All right, Morf, it's time to jump into this episode. You know, a lot of people are fascinated by stories of outlaws on the run. TV and movies have glamorized, the tales of desperate people on the run, sort of making it kind of a us against them story. A lot of them stress kind of a romantic relationship. angle, Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow come to mind. Two-20-somethings from Texas who were killed by law enforcement after a spree of bank robberies, murders, and other gang-related crimes like prison breaks and car thefts.

After their deaths, Bonnie's clothes and bloody locks of her hair were sold as souvenirs. The car they were killed in and the shirt that Clyde died in are still on display at the Prim Valley Resort and Casino in Prim Nevada. And I think more if you'd have to probably say that Bonnie and Clyde are probably two of the most famous of the kind of outlaws on the run. I mean, so many movies have been made about them. They really were kind of glamorized. And I think people of the day thought of them as that, you know, glamorous.

They're, you know, striking back against authority. this and that. But we've seen other stories of outlaws on the run publicized in the media The Fugitive. An early 90s Harrison Ford film remake of a 60s TV show made $368 million at the box office. In that movie, Ford was framed for his wife's murder and flees to find a real killer after being sentenced to death row. That popular show and movie was loosely based on the real case of Sam Shepard, who actually, actually never fled following the mysterious murder of his wife. But the inspiration from his real-life case, resulting in a popular TV show and hit movie,

proves that there is a fascination with people on the run. Yeah, recently, the internet and TV viewers across the nation were taken with the story of escaped inmate Casey White and his accomplice decorated corrections officer Vicki White, who are said to be unrelated, by the way, despite having the same last name. There were thousands of people discussing their story on social media and tuning in for the latest updates on their case. 56-year-old corrections officer Vicki White was just one day away from retirement when she walked 38-year-old inmate Casey White right out the door of the Lauderdale County Jail. She lied to the staff saying he had a mental health evaluation at the courthouse and that she had to take him. Vicki had been a model employee for decades.

Casey White was serving a 75-year prison sentence, but he would be taken. taken to the Lauderdale County Jail for raiments and hearings after he confessed in 2020 to the murder of Connie Ridgeway. At first, when Casey escaped, it was feared that he had hurt and kidnapped Vicky and that she could possibly be as hostage, but a warrant was quickly put out for her arrest as well when it became clear that she wasn't a hostage, but rather a willing participant who was in a romantic relationship with Casey White. Just weeks before the escape, Vicki sold her home for just $90,000 and put in for her retirement, she bought a car so that they could flee in an unknown vehicle. And basically, she left everything behind. It's still not known why the two were so

close or what their goal was following the escape. After just 11 days as fugitives on the run, they were found in Evansville, Indiana. They tried to flee in their car, but authorities did a pit maneuver. and they crashed. And that pit maneuver morph to me is an interesting technique. It's basically where they, you know, from behind, try to push the car, the back end of the car one way or the other to cause it to spend out. You see it a lot. I used to see it a lot on those car chase shows.

I was enamored with those when I was a little bit younger. I'm assuming it's really tough when you're driving 50, 60, 70, 80, miles an hour and the back end of your car starts to go out from you. Yeah, and I think that a lot of times you hear about these maneuvers, these things that they do to get these people pulled over. And I think it takes a lot of, you know, skill and courage to do that and sort of risk at the people that are trying to do it to get these people stopped and make sure no one else is harmed. After they crashed, Vicky took her own life with a gun.

and Casey surrendered to officers. Casey White was taken back into custody and is still set to face a jury trial for capital murder this December and will now face the escape charges as well. The way in which Vicky and Casey's story of life together as two lovers on the run captivated the attention of people is just further proof that there really is this interest in these kinds of stories. But for all the stories of lovers on the run. run like Vicki White and Casey White or Bonnie and Clyde. There are just as many stories of desperate and dangerous criminals on the run. People who have done awful things and there's really nothing romantic about their stories. And in this episode, we're going to talk about some of those desperate people who recently made headlines while on the run and the crimes that they

committed. And these outlaws have a connection to the state of Texas. Well, we're talking about Vicki White and Casey White, sort of just as you were just talking, came into my head that their case, their circumstances were reminiscent of the show Escape at Dan Mora, which starred Patricia Arquette and Benicio Del Toro, which was a pretty good miniseries. But that was also based on a true incident. So I think it just further enforces the interest that comes out of these cases. and TV shows and stuff are made about them. Well, the one thing that that really jumps out at me and something I've always wondered about

is in these types of situations, how did these romances come about? You know, whether it's a male inmate and a female corrections officer or, you know, the other way around, how does it happen inside a jail where they have, time to be intimate to kind of foster this relationship. I mean, to the point more for where this woman was one day away from retirement and she was willing to throw it all the way just to try to get this guy out so that they could live a life on the run. Yeah. And I also wonder if the relationships that they have are true relationships, if they really always have feelings about each other or in many cases, is it just a prisoner who sees a target that he can take advantage of

and he pretends that he has feelings for and initiates things? Maybe they have low self-esteem. Maybe they're in a relationship that's suffering and they think they can be an easy target. And I wonder if they just take advantage of that because they have all the time in the world to sort of sit back and manipulate people to their advantage. But it's interesting whether that's the case or their true romances that actually happened between some of these people. Well, I'm sure it happens both ways, but if I had to guess, I would say more often than not, it's a criminal taking advantage of someone else. We know that's what they do,

a lot of them. They're manipulative. They sit around and they scheme and they figure out, you know, people's weaknesses or how to get to them and then they hatch a plan and put it into motion. On May 11, 2022, 25-year-old Anna Moriah Wilson, known as Moriah, or Mo, was found dead in the bathroom of a home she was staying at in East Austin, Texas. Moriah was a professional cyclist, and she was getting ready for an upcoming race. She had been dating another professional cyclist named Colin Strickland. Things were tricky, though. He had an on-again-off-again girlfriend, Caitlin Armstrong, who very much wanted to be on with him. 34-year-old Colin met Moriah in October of 2021 in Austin, Texas.

They hid it off and spent time together in a romantic relationship for around a week or so, but after that, they decided to remain friends. According to MSN, Moriah texted Colin, saying, If you just want to be friends, then that's cool, but I'd like to talk about it. Colin responded that he was willing to talk to her, and they ended up hanging out and meeting up after this text. Moriah was temporarily staying on Maple Avenue and her friend Caitlin Cash's home in East Austin while preparing to compete in the upcoming 157-mile gravel race in Hico, Texas. Moriah left her friends home at 5.55 p.m. and at around 6 p.m., she and Colin went swimming together at Deep Eddy Pool before they went out for dinner at a place

called Pool Burger. After swimming and having dinner around 8 p.m., Colin drove Moriah back to her friend's home on his motorcycle. Moriah used her door coat to unlock the door at 8.36 p.m. And Colin rode off. Within minutes of returning home, Moriah was shot. A dark SUV was captured by a ring doorbell camera arriving outside the home just one minute after Mariah unlocked a door at 837 p.m. The SUV with a bike rack and an additional luggage rack had passed the house just before the time of the murder. The camera didn't capture any other unaccounted vehicles between the SUV coming and going and emergency vehicles arriving. And this is something more of that. I think we're seeing more and more of, right? A lot of people have these doorbell cameras now, whether it's

ring, simply safe. I mean, there are a number of different companies that that offer them, but they are catching crucial evidence in cases now. It's, it's kind of amazing. And on top of that, a lot of people have, you know, sophisticated security systems, multiple cameras on the exterior of their home, I just think it's, it's a trend that's going to increase as more and more people kind of jump on board with this technology. Yeah, and it's so cost effective now. We had our security system put in when we moved into our new house not long ago, and they come out, they put the cameras up, they show you how to look at it on your phone and access the app. And with the pricing on it, it seems like a no-brainer to just go ahead for your protection, for your property,

you know, for safety to deter criminals, it seems like something, you know, most people would want to do if they can. So it's good to see that it's actually working and catching things on camera that are actually helping to identify people and identify suspects, things like that. Well, it seemed like a few years ago that the doorbells were catching, you know, bad Amazon drivers or people who were stealing packages off of, people's porches, which obviously is a crime. I think what we're starting to see is evidence in much more heinous type crimes. Yeah, we've talked about so many cases, too, where back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, if only there was some kind of surveillance camera, even businesses didn't have surveillance for the most part back then.

So nowadays, it's just, it seems like it's all over the place and it's a good thing, I think, to help stop criminals. Just before 10 p.m., Mariah was found by her friend Caitlin as she returned home for the night. She found Mariah laying in a pool of blood with multiple spent casings on the floor next to her. Caitlin called police and then performed CPR on Moriah trying to save her, and EMTs quickly arrived. But by 10.10 p.m., Moriah was pronounced deceased. Police questioned neighbors, and none of them remembered hearing any gunshots,

indicating that a silencer may have been used on the gun, which was determined to be a 9-millimeter handgun. Police found that when Mariah entered Caitlin's home, she left the door unlocked behind her. Police also found Mariah's specialized S-Works bike, about 70 feet from the home, hidden in a thick area of bamboo. Investigators immediately reached out to Colin Strickland,

who cooperated with the police in their investigation and their hunt for Moriah's killer, based on evidence. And what Colin told them, police developed a suspect in the case. And investigators are currently searching for Colin's girlfriend, 34-year-old real estate agent and yoga teacher, Caitlin Armstrong. The two had been dating for three years and had broken up in October,

but got back together sometime after that. During that time, Caitlin actually called Moriah, telling her that Colin was her boyfriend. And to stay away from him, Colin told police that he hadn't seen or talked to Caitlin since May 13th. It turned out that Caitlin Armstrong had a 2012 Jeep Cherokee that matched the description of the SUV caught on the ring camera. Colin admitted to police that he tried to hide his relationship and friendship with Moriah from Caitlin by putting her phone number under a different name in his phone and deleting messages from her. And Caitlin apparently didn't know they had been together until January of this year of 2022.

Around the same time, or possibly a bit earlier in December 2021, Colin bought himself a 9mm handgun, and he also bought one for Caitlin. An anonymous person named Jane in official court documents called in a tip to authorities, stating that in January, Caitlin found out that Colin and Moriah had been together, and she was so upset that she said she wanted to kill Mariah. This tipster named Jane also mentioned Caitlin telling Mariah stay away from Colin. So more, I think from the standpoint of the police, you can see why Caitlin Armstrong would be, at the very least, a person of interest, more likely a potential suspect. She and Colin had a relationship.

It came out that he was hiding that relationship with Moriah from Caitlin. You have the purchase of two nine millimeter handguns, one for eight. each of them that's identified as the murder weapon, a nine millimeter handgun. And then you have this anonymous tip. A woman calls in and says that Caitlin threatened to kill Mariah. Okay. I mean, that is more than enough to put you on the suspect list with police. Yeah, and I think it was pretty clear to police early on that the motive here was one of the

oldest motives around was pure jealousy. It seems like there's any number of cases that you can think of where there's a love triangle of some sort. And one person involved in that triangle is jealous of someone else. And it leads to a murder. And I think we've seen this countless times. Oh, it's happened forever for as long as relationships have been around, probably. And I forgot to mention the black SUV. I think that was another thing that would help put her on the suspect list.

On the day Mariah was murdered, Colin lied to Caitlin telling her he had been out and about and was delivering flowers and he wasn't able to call her text because his phone battery was dead. As reported in the Sun News, Colin released a written public statement, which read in part, there is no way to adequately express the regret and torture I feel about my proximity to this horrible crime. According to Colin, Caitlin came home later that night around 9.20 p.m. on the night of the murder, as though nothing had happened. It had been less than an hour since Moriah was killed. The day after the murder, Caitlin was actually arrested on May 12th due to a misdemeanor warrant in Travis County, it was completely unrelated to Moriah's murder. The warrant stemmed from a larceny

charge in 2018 in which a $650 Botox procedure went unpaid for. At a spa in Travis County, Caitlin showed them a master card, but told them she had a different card that she would like to use, but it was in the car. Instead of getting a card from her car and coming back into pay, she just left without paying. While investigators were interviewing her, they began to question her about Mariah. They explained that they had a car that looked just like her as on surveillance video,

and according to Yahoo News, she nodded in agreement, that it looked like her car, and that she felt like she was in some kind of trouble. It was actually in the middle of the interview that investigators realized there was a mistake in the system, and Caitlin's date of birth didn't match the birth date listed on her arrest warrant, so she couldn't be held.

Caitlin left the police station a free woman. But Caitlin didn't plan on sticking around waiting for police to pick her up again. This small mistake allowed her to go on the run. And this is something that always floors me, more of, you know, everybody makes a mistake. Nobody's perfect. I don't care what profession you're in. What I will say is that in certain professions, mistakes mean much more than they do in others. right if you're a doctor and you make a mistake on the operating table well that could mean life or death

if you're in law enforcement and you make a mistake like this and it is a mistake i'm sure it wasn't done on purpose but the gravity of the situation that results from that one little mistake an incorrect birth date. It can be huge. Now, you know, in previous jobs that I've held, if I made a mistake on a spreadsheet, okay, it was a mistake. I'd be called out for it. Nobody was going to lose their life over it. Nobody, you know, was going to be put in harm's way in danger. I might have my ego bruised a little bit. I might get yelled at by a superior, but that's about it. And what I took away from this little incident that she was arrested for in the first place was it it showed some kind of flaw in her character that she'd be willing to do something that seems so minor. You know, it's not a major crime by any stretch

of the imagination, but it does show something in her character that if she's willing to do something little and petty to some, she's still breaking the law. And we talk in several cases, I think the last episode, we questioned how can these people do these crimes over and over and over and over and be out on the street. Well, this certainly isn't one of those crimes where you would say how she out on the street because it's minor in comparison. But I think it's still important to point out that it is a little bit of a red flag that she was willing to do something like this. Yahoo News quoted Austin police detective Richard Spittler as saying, we cannot simply arrest somebody if there is some sort of discrepancy. If there had been no discrepancy, Caitlin still could have been released because she had yet

to be charged with killing Mariah. And I think you kind of alluded to that more of, yes, this was a crime, but a crime that most people would be, you know, released until they had their upcoming court date, the $650 non-payment, but to know that police had the suspect in Moriah's case in custody, but had to let her go. You know that was very tough for family and friends of Moriah. For their part, Caitlin's family has expressed out that she could be responsible for killing Moriah with her father publicly stating that he knew she'd never do anything like this. And anytime I hear about or read a statement from a father, I get it.

And I mean, I'm telling you right now, man, if police came to me and said, Mike, one of your daughters did this horrible act or we believe, I would say no way. I know them. there's no way that either one of them would be capable of doing this. I just think that's kind of a natural reaction for a parent. Yeah, I think it's pretty rare that someone steps up its result. I figure it was only a matter of time. It seems like it's, like you say, overwhelmingly,

it's disbelief and support of their child. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency. We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do but had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, blood and water. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Federal agents believe that Caitlin flew from Austin Bergstrom Airport to Houston just after,

noon on May 14th. And then from Houston, she flew on Southwest Airlines to LaGuardia Airport in New York. From LaGuardia, it's unknown where she went. Deputy U.S. Marshals confirmed that Caitlin's trail went cold after she landed in New York. And I think if you're going to go on the run, if you're going to try to get lost, is New York a good place to do that? Well, there is a time. of people in a relatively small area when you're talking about New York City. So I think that could be debated. Is that the best way to go? Is it to go, you know, to the Ozarks, find some place out in the middle of nowhere? It seemed to work for her. Yeah, I also wonder if she had some kind of plan immediately in her head, what she was going to do, what kind of thinking went into it,

because I'm sure no one has a playbook. What will I do if I kill someone and where am I going to go? And it's yet to be revealed if she had any connections or family there. I'm sure that people digging around will find that information out. But it's interesting that she picked that location. It may just be because she wanted to blend in with the giant population. But it's a good question, right? Was this thought out beforehand?

Was it thought out after the, the murder if she did commit it, or was, did she just wing it? Investigators searched the home that Caitlin and Colin shared and found her handgun. Ballistics test showed that her gun was likely the weapon that killed Moriah Wilson. They came to believe that Caitlin could have been tracking Moriah by looking on her social media. She used a website and app that details a person's public fitness and has a built-in tracking and GPS feature, and it showed that Mariah's last logged-in fitness session was May 11th. This may have shown, Caitlin, that Colin and Moriah were together, much more than Colin

had told her about. During the time that Colin and Moriah were involved together, Mariah had flown back to where she lived in California, and she didn't come back to Austin before her brief visit, or for a while after. Colin told the New York Times, Mariah and I were both leaders in this lonely, niche sport of cycling, and I admired her greatly and considered her a close friend. On May 17th, a warrant for the arrest of Caitlin Armstrong was issued by the Austin Police Department. They asked for assistance from the U.S. Marshal's Lone Star Fugitive Task Force. New information came in that led investigators to believe Caitlin was dropped off at Newark Liberty International on May 18th, just one day after.

an arrest warrant was obtained by Austin authorities. Caitlin's Black Jeep Cherokee is also missing. It has a Texas license plate with the tag number LDZ 5608. Anyone with information about the whereabouts of Caitlin Armstrong is being asked to call the U.S. Marshals Service Communication Center at 1-800-336-0102. You can also go to US Marshals.gov. and submit a tip online or download the USMS tips app. Caitlin is considered armed and dangerous.

You should not approach her. A $5,000 reward is being offered leading to the capture of Caitlin Armstrong. So more of Caitlin Armstrong is on the run. And I think a lot of people will look at that as kind of a sign of guilt. many people do, there does seem to be some evidence against her. Now, she has not been convicted. She hasn't had her day in court yet, but you'd have to say putting everything together, it looks pretty strong that she was likely involved in the murder of Moriah Wilson. And someone could probably argue that she fled because she was being unjustly framed or

accused of this murder and wasn't going to sit around and wait to go to prison for it. But I think in all likelihood, the most obvious scenario is probably the most likely. But again, she does get her day in court, if she's apprehended, that is. So it'll be interesting to see what happens with that if they're able to track her down, if there's any more developments, and if she's ultimately taken back into custody. Yeah, my thought is a little harder to stay on the run these days. days, right? In 2022, it's not quite as easy as it would have been 30, 40, 50 years ago. What I'm hoping is that this is not one of those cases where a person is able to live 20, 30, 40 years on

the run, create a new life, be caught, you know, way down the line, ultimately face justice, but essentially live most of their life on the run free. Those cases, they really bugged me. And it seems to me, it seems like it would be difficult unless you had some kind of go bag and set up system in place to where you're, if something happens, I'm going to flee and I have all this ready to go. It seems like, you know, this would be, it would be hard to set up some kind of new life for yourself or have some fake IDs waiting for you and be able to. and be able to just drop off the grid and go into a new life unless you had some kind of planning. So if they don't find her, it will be interesting to see if they determine that she had some kind of something set up in advance of the crime to cover her tracks. Well, I'm assuming she's not Jason Bourne.

She can't just run down to a safe deposit box, which contains 10 different passports with 10 different, you know, IDs, $100,000 in cash. Most people don't have the resources to set that up or the know-how or the contacts. Yeah. And then she's got to avoid all the technology. Like we mentioned ring doorbells all over the place and apps and everything else, surveillance all over the place, ways to track people and ID them when they don't want to be IDed. So she's got a lot of stuff working against her.

The next fugitive we're discussing is 25-year-old Matthew Hoy-Edgar, another fugitive from Texas, this time out of Sabine County. Unlike Caitlin Armstrong, he's already had his day in court. He decided he didn't want to face the rest of his days in prison and went on the run. In early January of this year, 2022, Matthew Hoy-Edger was found guilty of the murder of his then-girlfriend, 19-year-old Livy Lewis, who he shot the death on October 21, 2020. At sentencing, the jury returned a 99-year prison sentence and a fine at $10,000 for the first-degree murder of Livy. However, Edgar wasn't there to hear that sentence passed down because he had already split when things didn't look good for him in court, failing to appear starting the fourth day of the sentencing hearing. Edgar was able to flee because he was out on bond due to technicality, just like in Caitlin Armstrong's case.

The bond was affordable for him because it had to be lower to $50,000 due to a Texas state law, which required that he'd be indicted within 90 days of being arrested. Unfortunately, he wasn't. Darcy Bass, Livy's mom, was told that the delay in indicting Edgar was due to COVID-19 protocols. He hasn't been seen since January 27, 2022. The U.S. Marshal Service is asking anyone with information related to the whereabouts of Matthew Hoy-Edgar to submit a tip on their website, USmartials.gov slash tips. Residence of Sabine County can also contact the local sheriff's office by calling 409-7-87-2266 or calling 911.

They warn do not approach Edgar and do not make contact. There's a $10,000 reward for information leading to his capture. Though the fugitives we've discussed so far, Caitlin Armstrong and Matthew Edgar appear to be running from John. and trying to avoid prison, the final fugitive we're discussing was already behind bars for his crimes and decided that he didn't want to stay there, a bloodthirsty and dangerous man. He wasn't going to let anyone send him back to prison once he got out and would do anything to keep that from happening, including the murders of several people in one family.

This happened just a few weeks ago. 46-year-old Gonzalo Lopez, a Texas inmate, escaped from custody on May 12, 2022. The Texas Department of Criminal Justice Transport Bus he was on was somewhere between Gatesville and Huntsville, transporting prisoners to a medical facility at the time. Lopez had been restrained with both handcuffs and leg restraints and was placed in the caged area of the bus, the most secure part of the vehicle. It was with good reason. Lopez was in that area of the bus because he was a very violent and dangerous man.

A former Mexican mafia prison gang member, he was serving a life sentence for killing a man with a pickax in 2005 and had attempted another murder the year before in 2004. Somehow Lopez got both his hands and legs from. free and was able to cut through the metal of the cage in the bus. He was then able to crawl through the cut he had made in the cage and stabbed the driver multiple times. The driver immediately pulled over and fought with Lopez, trying to subdue and stop him as he ran off the bus. As another officer came up trying to help, Lopez ran back onto the bus and took off driving it. Officers shot at the

bus and were able to take out one of the back tires, making it possible to drive the bus any further. Lopez jumped out and ran into the woods somewhere between Houston and Dallas, Texas, in Leon County, a hundred miles away from where he was being held in Gatesville. So, Morve, I just want to take a minute here and kind of talk about what this guy actually did. So he's wearing leg restraints. He's handcuffed. He's in the metal cage. And I'm sure everybody can picture it.

I think the first question you have to ask is, how was he? able to cut through this metal cage and then, you know, make a hole big enough that he was able to crawl through. He stabbed the driver multiple times with something. So, you know, to me, that means he most likely had something with him. He had, you know, found a way to hide it and and carry it on to the bus. It's almost unbelievable. Like if you saw it in a movie, you might find implausible. And I think we touched on it earlier that these prisoners have unlimited time to sit around daydreaming and planning ways to escape, ways to get around the systems that are in place.

So you have to wonder, was this a case of him coming up with some ingenious plan that he was able to pull off or did he just see an opportunity and took it and it all worked out and he was able to get away? I don't know about you, but I sort of got a little bit of a con air feeling. It's a movie. It's a fictional movie, not based in reality, but just how this event happens and a bunch of dangerous prisoners, you know, are released. There's also a probably even more comparable scene, another fictional account, of course, but in one of the seasons of Fargo, there's a bus escape. And it's sort of the same.

It almost plays out a little bit the same way in that the prisoner on the bus comes up with this little plan. sure enough, he gets the bus into an accident and is able to escape. Again, those are fictional accounts. But this just shows that this can really happen. And we see it right here with this case. Lopez was added to the Texas 10 most wanted fugitives list and a $50,000 reward for information leading to his capture was offered by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. The reward was quite large. The next highest dollar amount of a reward related to the top 10 Texas fugitives list is $7,500.

So, you know, you have to kind of think about it and say, well, maybe the reward was large because they knew just how dangerous this guy was and how desperate of an escapee he was. on May 25th, the United States Marshal's Lone Star Fugitive Task Force, Waco Division, join the hunt for Lopez. As we said earlier in the episode, I think it's very obvious, more that some of these fugitives have nothing left to lose. They don't care about anything, but their freedom. And really anything or anyone standing in their way is an obvious. obstacle to eliminate. On June 2nd, 2022, three weeks after Gonzalo Lopez had gone on the run,

he was found, and the worst fears of how desperate and dangerous he was were confirmed. A family of five, the Collins family from Houston, had a second residence in Centerville, a ranch where they could go on weekends. For the Collins' who enjoyed the outdoors, it was the ideal getaway spot, the type of property that was priestly. and had ponds for fishing and plenty of grounds to hunt on. A call for a welfare check from a concerned family member sent officers to the Collins Ranch in Centerville. Family was concerned about 18-year-old Waylon Collins, a very recent college graduate of Tom Ball Independent School District, his brother's 16-year-old Carson Collins, and 11-year-old Hudson

Collins, who had just been baptized three days earlier, and their cousin, 11-year-old Bryson Collins, and their grandfather, 66-year-old Mark Collins, first responders made the gruesome discovery that all of them were dead. While official causes of death haven't been released for the family, the initial belief is that they were all stabbed to death. It was a shocking and horrible crime, and the Centerville community was outraged by the news. Police discovered that there were guns missing from the ranch,

along with clothing and other items. But the biggest thing missing was the family's white 19, 1999 Chevy Silverado. They felt as though the killer had taken it, was driving it, so they put out a bolo for the truck. It didn't take them long to find it.

250 miles away from where he had escaped, Lopez was spotted driving a white 1999 Chevrolet Silverado in Jordanton, Texas. That had been stolen from the Collins family. Officers threw down spike strips, which caused Lopez to crash into a tree and then bail on foot. He immediately began shooting at the officers and was killed by their return fire.

The rifle and the handgun that Lopez had on him were both stolen from the Collins Ranch. And I think what happened there at the end, more of that just highlights what we've already talked about, how desperate an individual like Lopez really is. He figured out a way to escape. He knows that if he's captured, he's most likely not going to get another chance like this. So he's willing to do anything. Kill anyone he has to kill to try to keep that from happening. And it's heartbreaking what happened to this family at his hands.

And who knows how many other people might have been in harm's way had they crossed paths with this guy before he was killed by police? but it's just, again, it just reinforces these guys just have nothing to lose sometimes. Well, I think you can play the what if game. What if he's not spotted driving, you know, this stolen pickup truck. What if he had ditched that truck and was driving something else? I think it's, it's very easy to believe that as desperate as he was, he was going to have to target another home, another family. He's going to need supplies. He's going to need, you know, a place to lay low. So, you know, very believable that more people would have died at the hands of Gonzalo Lopez had he not been spotted.

And police officers had not engaged him and he ended up being killed. It turns out that Lopez had no connections to the Collins family. It's likely he just saw an empty house and was hiding out the entire time he was missing. The area had been cordoned off and heavily searched multiple times by officers on the ground and canine officers as well as aerial searches. And the family must have come back to the home, not expecting someone to be there. They probably felt safe since it had just been searched. Lopez could have been anywhere by then, Mexico or surrounding state,

so the family most likely wasn't worried. So in looking at the Texas top 10 most wanted fugitives list, Caitlin Armstrong and Matthew Edgar aren't even on that list. There are currently eight fugitives on the list. A ninth was arrested on May 24th of this year. That fugitive Bobby Joe Holland had been wanted since August 30th of 2021 after violating his parole. It remains to be seen if Armstrong and Edgar.

will one day be added to the list. With Caitlin Armstrong on the loose, hopefully warrants are typed out, records are checked much more carefully so that no one else gets let go due to that type of technicality and given time to flee. With Matthew Edgar,

hopefully when a serious crime has been committed, even during unforeseen and unconventional times, like the COVID-19 pandemic threw us into, steps will be taken to make sure that all procedures are followed to prevent more of these technicalities. If Matthew Edgar could not have afforded his bond, the higher bond standard for a murder, he would have been sitting in jail between court days, not planning his escape route on the outside. When and if Caitlin Armstrong has her day in court, of course many of us will be there reading all the updates. It's just a matter of time, warned Deputy U.S. Marshal, Brandon Phila,

as described in crimeonline.com. He added, we're working day in and day out. We'd like to safely bring you into custody so you can have your day in court and tell your side of the story. There's been no semblance of justice for Mariah Wilson's murder. And the family of Libby Lewis, their justice is waiting just out of reach. There will be added charges, hopefully keeping killers behind bars and away from innocent victims for longer or for good. This is what the stories of fugitives are really about, halted justice, pause, grief, and not romance or thrill. As we wait for a resolution to the cases, we hope for the least exciting route of all

that the fugitives surrender peacefully and are alive at the end of the day to be held accountable for what they're accused of doing or what they've done. And more if we started out this episode talking about, you know, kind of, romantic notions of fugitives, right? Bonnie and Clyde, people like that. You could kind of throw in a little bit of the movie Natural Born Killers.

You know, if you go back to that movie, which is a strange movie, a lot of people don't like it. Some people do. There was a kind of a romantic aspect there too. Of that couple on the run, people were rooting for them. Now, that was a fictional story, but I think those are outliers. I think the stories that we've talked about in this episode, like you said, are more of the reality, grief on the part of the family, especially in situations where, you know, someone hasn't yet been held accountable

and they're on the run. And then, you know, grief for the family of someone, who has been convicted of crimes against their loved ones, but has escaped. I think the other thing you have to talk about is from the perspective of the family, when you have someone who is out there, police can't find them. That has to add a level of fear because you have no idea if this person is going to come after you. that must be a very harrowing feeling. Yeah, and I think in some of the cases,

if the family is not only dealing with the grief of what happened to their loved one, but as you mentioned, they're still out there. They might be coming after you next or they might hurt some other family out there someplace, and then I'm sure they don't want any other victims. And, you know, they're dealing with their grief and planning funerals and stuff.

And meanwhile, they've got to check for updates to see if the person that they believed, kill their family member has been caught or if they're still on the run. Moriah's family has set up a go-fund me, not for funeral expenses, but for what they're calling community organizations that help youth find self-confidence, strength, and joy through biking, skiing, and other activities that Moriah was passionate about. Over $100,000 has been raised in Moriah Wilson's honor to give back to the community that she love so much. For those who knew and loved the Collins family, who lost five members of

their loved ones at the hands of Gonzalo Lopez, they will never get justice. Lopez died at the hands of police rather than face prison again. And that family in their community is left with the aftermath of his evil deeds. So morph, as we wrap up this case, you know, we talked about a number of different stories, a number of different people. There are some similarities in some of these cases, but there are some pretty stark differences. You know, when you talk about Gonzalo Lopez, this guy was a monster, you know, kind of a cartel hitman or a mafia hitman or, you know, whatever you want to call him to slaughter an innocent family of five. I think this guy, he was just pure evil. Now, you could say that the others were evil as well, but I think there's, there are differences. I mean, first of all,

all, Caitlin has not even been convicted. I'm sure she's been convicted in the court of public opinion based on everything that's come out about her. Now, if she took a life, obviously, she's evil as well, but it doesn't seem to me as though she had been living this kind of, you know, criminal life. She obviously decided if she did this to commit murder after she found her. out that, you know, her boyfriend was seeing Moriah. Does it make it any less evil? No, you're taking a life. But there are some differences.

In these cases, there's no doubt. Yeah, I think with Armstrong and Edgar, they're both fugitives on the run, but hardly comparable besides that to Lopez. Obviously, he was a dangerous criminal with a long track record, whereas Armstrong and Edgar found themselves on a fugitive list probably never imagining they'd be there because their life up to that point didn't include a serious brush with the law. Yeah, I mean, we're not minimizing what they did or what they're accused of doing, obviously. But you'd have to view these individuals as a little bit differently, all three of them.

I think what is the same? and I think this holds true for a lot of people. The prospect of spending, you know, a long time in prison, the rest of your life in prison, or potentially going to death row is extremely powerful. You know, we've seen that throughout history with criminals. If they can figure out a way to go on the run to escape from a facility, they'll do it. Because I think we said it earlier, what do they have to lose? You know, in the case of Gonzalo Lopez, that guy had nothing to lose.

He was, he was probably never getting out. And so, you know, that theme, that of desperation, to me, that that's a very scary theme. When somebody is desperate, they're liable to do anything. And it makes me wonder, what are the outcomes going to be if with the other two fugitives? is are they going to be found? And if they are, is there going to be some kind of dangerous interaction that goes down or will they peacefully surrender? So we'll have to keep our eyes open. Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

Thanks goes out to Sunny Landon for writing and research assistants in this episode. As always, if you love the show, but you haven't done it yet, go out, give us a five-star rating. You can leave a review, but keep telling your friends, that word of mouth about the criminology podcast really helps us. out. If you want to find us on social media, we're on Twitter with the handle at Criminology Pod. You can also find us on Facebook by searching for Criminology Podcast or by joining our Facebook discussion group, Criminology Podcasts, Discussion and Fans. So, Morf, that is it for our episode on the Texas fugitives. But we'll be back with everyone next Saturday night with a brand new episode of Criminology. So until then, for Mike.

And Morf. We'll talk to you next week. Take care, everyone. Thank you.