Criminology - The Tiede Family Murders

Episode Date: February 27, 2021

The Tiede family spent quality family time each year at their cabin in Oakley, Utah. Rolf and Kay Tiede had two daughters, Linae and Tricia, and a son named Shaun. In December 1990, The Tiede family went to their cabin and were joined by Kaye's mother, Beth Potts, and a number of other family members.  Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the Tiede family murders. Their 1990 Christmas at the cabin was interrupted by two men intent on murder. 26-year-old Von Taylor and 23-year-old Edward Deli had both been recently paroled and were living in the same halfway house. They both decided to flee and eventually ended up in the Tiede's cabin, waiting for the family to come back. You can support the show at patreon.com/criminology   An Emash Digital Production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 148 of the Criminology podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And this is Mike Morford. Morph, what's going on with you, buddy? Not too much. Just doing some work, relaxing when I can.

How about you? Relaxing when you can. Isn't that the key? I mean, we all have so much work to do. You got to find that time to kind of relax a little bit. it. Watch a Netflix show. Watch, uh, you know, something to cleanse the palate. Yeah, life is short. You got to get those relaxing times in when you can. No doubt about it. We continue to see some amazing Patreon support. So let's give some shoutouts. Nelson and Rebecca jumped out at our highest level. We had

Lindsay showers. Leah Doudel. Danny Bob. Our good friend Mary Beth Long jumped out at our highest level. and Nicole Harmon. So that's a lot of great new support, and we really appreciate it. Yeah, we can't thank you enough for that. And some of those people I also recognize from social media, too, so that's awesome. If anyone out there is considering supporting criminology, you can do so by going to Patreon.com slash criminology. More if we kind of hinted last episode that something big was coming down the pike,

and we're ready to tell everybody what that is. starting in March, all of our episodes of criminology will be available once again on the regular feet. I know that's something you and I have been wanting to give everyone for quite some time. We're finally able to make that happen. Yeah, I think both of us probably hear every week people asking, hey, where can I listen to those old Zodiac episodes, those old Golden State Killer episodes? There's hundreds of episodes that people will now be able to listen to. I think they'll be excited about that.

Yeah, I think they will. It's a lot more content, a lot more free content. So we're excited about it. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode? Yeah, I'm ready to go. Let's do it. All right. We are talking about the Tita family murders.

The town of Oakley, Utah is just about a 45 minute drive from Salt Lake City. In 1990, Oakley had a population of just 222 people. It's a great place to get away from it all. It's a great place to live and raise a family. And it's a magical place to visit. Now, the population is more than tripled since 1990. And a lot of residents that are now counted in the official census have summer homes in Oakley. Even the rich and famous are drawn to Oakley.

Actress Catherine Heigel and her husband have a ranch there. But Oakley is also the backdrop. for a terrible crime. In 1990, the Tita family planned to use their beautiful cabin, which they like to refer to as Tita's Tranquility in Oakley, for a family Christmas celebration, as they did every year. But in 1990, the family came home and entered a nightmare. Rolf Tita was born in Germany on September 29, 1939.

He immigrated to the United States with his mother when he was just delivered. years old. His wife, Kay, was born on January 16, 1941 in Nevada. They eventually found each other and fell in love, soon settling in Texas. On May 24, 1963, they married in Salt Lake City, Utah. Rolf and Kay wanted a very large family to fill their home in Humble Texas. Their family would be reflection of the love they had for each other, as well as something that was important to their values and their faith. As devout members of the Church of Jesus Christ of last, Saturday Saints. Family is a central concept, and many of that faith have very large families. Unfortunately, Rolf and Kay had an incredibly hard time conceiving a child. They refused to give up hope

on their dream of a family, and they adopted a daughter, Lanet, and three years later, a son, Sean. Weeks after Sean's adoption was finalized, Kay realized she was pregnant with her first biological child. The pregnancy was successful, and Kay gave birth to the youngest daughter. And Kay gave birth to the youngest daughter, Trisha. After a first feeling like they would never have any children, a family of five was large enough for the Titas. In 1969, Rolf opened Skyline Equipment Incorporated, a commercial laundry consulting and service company. Every year, the whole family would gather at the cabin, Tita's Tranquility, in Oakley, Utah for Christmas. It was truly a magical place to be at Christmas time and definitely different from Texas. The cabin was,

was very secluded. To actually get to the cabin in winter, you had to leave your car in the garage or the driveway and take a snowmobile about two miles to the cabin itself. The Titas planned their family gathering for Christmas, as was their tradition. And they were all excited. In December 1990, the Titas set up their Christmas tree. They wrapped their presents and placed them under the tree. and they prepared the cabin for the family to enjoy.

Kay and Rolf usually traveled places separately. While we don't know for sure why they did, it was possibly due to Kay's mother, Beth's car accident, which in 1983 killed her husband William and severely injured her for the rest of her life. It's very likely that Kay and Rolfe wanted to ensure that their children would never be without a capable parent due to one incident or accident. Because the family traveled separately, on December 20th, K. and Sean arrived in Oakley,

and were met by Kay's sister, Claudia. They saw a man walking around in the cold as they made their way to the cabin on their snowmobiles. He wasn't dressed for the frigid weather, and his presence itself was very odd, in such a secluded place. Kay stopped and asked the man if he needed help, but he quickly walked off. the other way. Kay was unsettled, but she settled down and all was well that night. On the 21st, Rolf, Trisha, and Linnea arrived. Kay told them about the strange man she had seen and asked them to bring the shotguns from the car. She was clearly still worried about this mystery man.

That night, Sean stayed with Claudia, and the rest of the Titas stayed with Kay's mother, Beth Potts. Beth was 72 years old, and her family has described her as lively, joyful and spirited. Since she was in the car accident in 1983, she had become largely immobile, and she lost her vision as well. So she relied on family. And she looked forward to visits from her daughter and grandkids. On December 22nd, the Tita family along with Beth went to Salt Lake City. Sean Tita stayed with his aunt Claudia. Around 12.30 p.m. K. K. Beth and 20-year-old Lanay arrived back from Salt Lake City first. They loaded up the snowmobiles and made their way to the cabin.

Linet's hands were so cold. She needed to run inside the cabin to run some warm water on them before she could help bring in the car load as she got to the top of the stairs. She saw a flash or a shadow near the fridge. She could tell that someone was hiding behind it. and she figured it was a cousin who had arrived early for the Christmas gathering waiting to scare her. When the man popped out from behind the fridge, she was definitely scared when she saw that it was not a cousin. The person inside the cabin was not a family member or friend, but instead a desperate criminal on the run.

And he was pointing a handgun at Linnae. 26-year-old von Taylor, a recent parolee, who had walked away from a halfway house, effectively escaping from supervised custody, threatened Linnae with the gun, and he wasn't alone. A second man was soon behind her, also holding a handgun. This man was 23-year-old Edward Dely, who had also walked away from the halfway house alongside von Taylor. Both men had recently been granted parole from Utah State Prison. Edward Deli had been paroled in November after serving time for arson charges. Vaughn Taylor was granted parole in October after serving time for aggravated burglary.

On December 14th, the two men were allowed to leave Orange Street Community Center in Salt Lake City in order to find jobs. They never returned as ordered. Instead, they made their way to the isolated Tita's Tranquility Cabin, where they waited for the unsuspecting family to return. Taylor ordered Lanay to make sure her mother and grandmother came into the house. She called out to her mother, asking her to come inside, but at the same time telling her there were burglars in the cabin. Beth Potts came inside and sat down on a stool, and Kay stood next to her. The women pleaded with Taylor and Deli not to hurt them or Lanay.

Kay said they could have anything they wanted if they just left. While Kay and Beth tried to reason with the men, Taylor and Deli stayed silent. Instead of talking, Taylor shot Kay with no warning. And then immediately after that, he shot Beth in the head. She was knocked down by the blow, but tried to stand back up. Taylor shot her again in the chest. And when she fell to the floor, he shot her once more to make sure she did not get back up again. L'nai was horrified, and she begged them to let her call for help,

screaming that they both needed an ambulance badly. But the men did not let her call anyone and instead used a dirty sock to gag her mouth. They tied her up and left her in a bedroom. Some reports have also stated that the family dog was placed in the bedroom with Leney. Lene could hear the two men talking about hiding the bodies of her mother and grandmother. As they moved Kay and Beth's bodies to the porch and threw them over the balcony, Lanay heard one of the men run to the bathroom, throwing up. The men covered the bodies with snow and then turned their attention back to Lanay.

The terror of what Lanay had just seen and Ben through was overshadowed by the anxiety of what she knew could happen to her. Lanay realized that she was trapped with these two men, who were obviously cruel and dangerous killers, and she had no idea what they planned on doing to her. if they had wanted her dead, they clearly had no qualms about shooting people. The horror of being tied up, trapped, and having to imagine your fate is something no one should ever go through. For Linnae, though, the thought of what may happen to the rest of her family

as they arrived at the cabin was even worse. She knew that at any moment her beloved father and little sister were going to show up, completely unaware of what had happened to Kay and Beth, and oblivious to the danger that awaited them inside. Around 2.45 p.m. Rolf showed up at the cabin with 16-year-old Trisha. Taylor dragged Leney outside at gunpoint. Almost immediately Rolf Saul Taylor, his hand around Lene's throat, his gun to her back. Deli pointed his gun at Rolf and Trisha, ordered that they come inside and demanded Rolf's money. Rolf quickly handed over just a little bit more than $100 and Tricia. Ordered that they come inside and demanded it. He said, and demanded Ralph's money. Rolf quickly handed over just a little bit more than $100 and cash, which Deli put in his pocket. Rolf would later state that while he was complying with their requests, he looked into Linne's eyes. And he just knew that something terrible had happened to Kay and Beth just from the pain

that he could see on Linet's face in her eyes. Taylor then ordered Deli to shoot Rolf. But Deli only pointed his gun. He didn't shoot. Dele is also reportedly the one who had seemingly tried to comfort Linet by allowing her to be with her dog. So perhaps he was somewhat of a reluctant participant in this attack. As Rolf stood there, he recognized Dely from very recently, and it even helped him get his three-wheeler unstuck three separate times in the area. Taller grew tired of waiting for Delly to shoot Rolf, and Taller decided to do it himself.

himself. Taylor aimed his gun at Roth and pulled the trigger, but the gun didn't go off. He pulled the trigger again, and still nothing happened. The third time, Taylor pulled the trigger. He shot Rolf in the face, and Rolf fell to the floor. Rolf immediately decided to lay perfectly still and played dead. The two attackers left Rolf alone and began to talk amongst themselves. Tricia was crying, and Lene, horrified at witnessing three shootings of her family members, looked around and could tell from the conditions in the home that the two attackers had made themselves quite comfortable there. Taylor and Delhi had been lying in wait for the Titas. It's thought by police that they knew the family was coming home soon from shopping and they wanted to steal their car.

They were extremely careless inside the home, not even attempting to limit evidence of them having been inside, Taylor had worn Rolf's sweatsuit. They ate the family's food and they unwrapped the presents that had been prepared for Christmas morning. They even lounged on the couches and laid in the beds. Von Taylor for some reason decided to take the time to call a friend back at the halfway house and inform him that he and Delhi were waiting in Oakley for the family to come home. It seems more like at this point, you know, these two guys had no cares in the world. They truly made themselves at home in the Tita's cabin. With people that are calm like that, that makes me wonder, are they more dangerous than

someone that's jittery? And once they get out of there, these guys seem like they just wanted to hang around and weren't afraid of anything. Yeah, I think, you know, one of the thoughts that was going through my head was, were they so careless because they knew that they were willing to kill this entire family, if need be, right? I mean, that's kind of my thinking was that, you know, if you don't want anyone to know you're there, okay, you take precautions, you don't touch anything.

You don't leave any evidence behind. you take what you're there to get and you leave. These two guys, they weren't like that. So, you know, for me, it's almost as if they were resigned to the fact that they were willing to kill. And so, therefore, why do we need to be careful? Rolf was continuing to play dead lying perfectly still. That's when he felt liquid being poured on him.

But he knew if he moved, he would be shot again. It quickly dawned on him that the liquid that had been poured on him was gasoline, and he realized they were going to set him on fire. They had poured gasoline from head to toe, and then continued on into the rest of the cabin, into different rooms. Knowing he could be set on fire, Rolf still didn't move. He just listened to Taylor and Delly talk about their plans to take Trisha and Lennade in New York,

using them as human shields along the way. Without warning, one of the men shot Rolf in the back of the head as he was lying there. just to make sure he wasn't dead. Miraculously, the shot didn't kill Roth, and he still continued to lay still. Each man ordered one of the girls onto a snowmobile. Trisha and Linnae horrified by what they had seen, and I think terrified by what they thought may be next for them, didn't want to do anything to make the two convicts, especially Taylor, angry. They got on the snowmobiles and started to drive away from,

the cabin toward the family's garage where their Lincoln town car was. Rolf somehow still alive, waited for the sound of the snowmobiles to fade away. He then jumped into action, trying to find Kay and Beth. He realized the house was on fire and tried to put the flames out and save the cabin. But because he had been doused in gasoline, which he forgot about in all of the chaos, he also caught on fire. So he ran to the shower and took off his snowsuit. He tried for a while longer to put out to fires, but he was no match for gasoline on wood. Despite the somewhat distant location of the cabin home, someone in the area had heard gunshots and seen the girls being forced on the snowmobiles with Taller and Deli. And because it seemed suspicious, they called it

into the police. Around the same time, Trish and Linet's uncle, Randy, was outside and saw the girls approaching on snowmobiles. He saw a man behind each girl and figured that they had brought their boyfriends to the family Christmas gathering. He tried to greet them waving, but they rode straight past him without acknowledging him at all. While he found it odd, he also felt that it was just teenagers being teenagers, and he brushed it off. He didn't think much more of it until he saw them again as they drove by him a few minutes later in what he knew was the Tita family's car. As he again tried to greet them, they acted like he didn't exist. Taylor was driving.

Tricia was in the front seat, and Lennie was in the back with Delhi. He just felt like something was off, and it didn't take long for something to confirm his suspicions. Another man on a snowmobile approaching from the cabin. This man racing towards Randy was not dressed for the cold weather. He had no helmet on. No gloves. He wasn't even wearing a jacket. Randy soon realized that the man's face was bloody. And it was so cold out that the blood was actually frozen to his face and what can only really be called blood icicles. His eyes were swelling shut. As the snowmobile got closer, Randy soon recognized

that it was his brother Rolf. Rolf pulled up alongside Randy and told him that he had been shot and he needed to save his girls. Randy and Rolf raced to get to Randy's truck. They got in and sped off after the stolen Lincoln town car. While driving, Randy frantically dialed 911 repeatedly on his cell phone. It was 1990 and this was a mountainous region. So service wasn't great. He was finally able to get through and relayed to a dispatcher, what was going on, but in the middle of this call, his cell phone died. So he pulled off into a gas station and used a pay phone to call 911 again, where he again relayed what was happening with Linnae and Trisha.

And this time, he was able to request a life flight helicopter for Rolf because of the severity of his injuries and the rural location. In the suburbs of D.C., a woman fails to show up for work. and is found brutally murdered. I wonder what's emergency. We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer. For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do

what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, Blood and Water. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. While Rolfe and Randy awaited emergency personnel to arrive, Lanay and Trisha were terrified as they rode captive in the car with Taylor and Delhi. The criminals asked the girls who the man waving at them was, and both girls pretended not to know Randy at all,

offering that he was probably just an overly friendly local, trying to introduce himself. The girls knew that if they revealed that they knew Randy, he likely would have been shot too. The men told the girls they were going to take the car to New York, where they would then let the girls go. But both girls were very doubtful after witnessing what they had. had seen, and they didn't think the men would let them go. Suddenly, a police car roared up behind

the Lincoln with its lights flashing. Thanks to the 911 call from Randy, and the call from the concern witness, officers were right behind the car. Taylor drove over 90 miles an hour, drove through hastily set up roadblocks, but he lost control of the car, and it went off an embankment. The car was quickly surrounded by police. Trisha Tita would later read. recount looking up to see both cops and civilians holding guns surrounding the car. Both convicts briefly pointed guns at the cops. But as soon as police fired at them with Trisha and Leney ducking down in the car, they gave up.

Taylor and Deli surrendered and exited the car. Their reign of terror was over. As police surveyed the carnage back at the cabin, They found the bodies of Kay and Beth. Taylor and Deli were arrested, and on December 24th, 1990, Christmas Eve, they were charged with two counts of first-degree murder for the deaths of Kay and Beth, one count of attempted first-degree murder for shooting Rolf, two counts of aggravated kidnapping for their pursuit with Linnae and Trish in tow, aggravated assault, arson, and theft, as they were. had stolen the car as well as some money, and finally, failure to stop for police. The Tita family was devastated. Their Christmas celebration had turned into a Christmas nightmare. A joint funeral is held for K. Tita and Beth Potts on December 28, 1990 in Salt Lake City. Family, friends, and residents of the community, all shocked and saddened by the sentenceless

violence, turned out to support the family. After they laid their loved ones to rest, the family said about trying to heal both mentally and physically from their ordeal. Then they had to look forward to court proceedings against the two killers. What is really interesting about the criminal proceedings in this case is the very different paths the defendant's lives would take. Both men had walked away from their halfway home. Both had prior criminal records. Both men participated in the terrorizing of an entire fan. family. But when it was all said and done, the two sentences that the men received were very different.

It was decided that the men would be tried separately. And for some reason, Von Taylor decided to plead guilty. He was ultimately given the death penalty as his sentence for first degree murder. Edward Deli decided to take his chance with the jury. During Deli's trial, Rolf walked into court and Deli looked stunned. Like, he was surprised that Rolf was alive. Rolf had only survived because the 38 special that he was shot with was loaded with birdshot, which is a less lethal round. The way the story of the invasion and murders was told by Deli's defense attorneys,

Dele's seemed hesitant to harm Roth, and Taylor seemed to be the truly cruel one who was in town on murdering the family rather than robbing them. Dele's attorneys also tried to point out that he had not actually killed anyone with his 44th magnum. In fact, Dele claimed to have not even shot anyone, pointing out his reluctance and pointing to Taylor's cruelty and guilt. A videotape found in the cabin by police helps paint the narrative. Investigators expected to see home video of the Tita family, perhaps celebrating holiday outings or wrapping presents. Instead, what they saw on the tape was Vaughn Taylor sitting on the Tita's couch, wearing Ross Gray sweatsuit. Taylor calmly opened the family's presence as he smacked his gum, open mouth. He called out the family members' names as he unwrapped the presents, then held the gifts up for the camera proudly.

In the footage that has been publicly released, you can clearly hear. Taylor say, Linnae, Delhi was a willing, joyous participant in this activity. It's clear that Delhi waited with Taylor and that he was well aware that they were waiting for the family to come home

so that they could ambush them. He can be heard on the video, replying to Taylor as he filmed, with no reluctance, no regrets, in the prosecution's narrative of events. It was Delhi who had poured the gasoline and started the fire.

But since Delhi was doing the filming and wasn't actually shown on tape, no one really got to see him being so callous and cold in front of the camera. And perhaps it was for this reason that there was a holdout on his jury. Just one person who did not think he should receive the death penalty for first degree murder. So the rest of the jury decided to compromise and settle for second-degree murder with life in prison, with the possibility of parole after 62 years, because they did not want to put the Tita family through another trial because of a hung jury. When you look back on the way the Tita family was treated on the stand, it feels like the jury truly made the right and compassionate decision, even though people were outraged that Delhi wasn't going to be punished in a way that they felt was appropriate

for the severity of the crimes he and Taylor had committed. While they were on the stand, Lene and Rolf were made by defense attorneys to hold the gun that killed their family members and terrorized them. Perhaps an attempt to make it look like they were somehow involved. During the trial, Rolf, Lene, and Trisha went through intense cross-examinations, including questions about bullet trajectory, even though they were. were victims too. And more of I think we have to take a step back and, you know, really take a look at the paths that each of these criminals took when it came to the judicial system. So Taylor pleads guilty and is given the death penalty. Deli, on the other hand, took his chance with the jury

and you'd be hard-pressed morph to say that it didn't work out in his favor. Yes, he was convicted. He got a life sentence with the possibility of parole. That's a lot different than, you know, getting a death sentence. I guess in my mind, I was just wondering, you know, why would someone plead guilty and accept a death penalty when, you know, what's the worst thing that could happen if you go to to trial in front of a jury, the death sentence, right? I mean, you know, why not take your chances, I guess, is the point that I'm getting at. Yeah, you would think that if he was going to make that

deal, that he would know in advance that the death penalty was off the table. And I wonder if it comes down to his defense attorney not doing a thorough job or him not understanding what was being laid out for him. But I think you're right. There's why do that at all? if you're just going to get the death penalty anyway. Yeah, because I think what you see a lot of times is a defendant pleading guilty in exchange for the prosecution taking the death penalty off the table, right? We've seen that quite a bit. But why plead guilty if you're going to get the worst possible thing that can happen anyways?

I just, I didn't understand that. In 1996, Rolf, Trisha, Linnae, and Sean Tita, as well as Kay's sister Sue Ellen sued the state of Utah for the wrongful deaths of K. Tita and Beth Potts. They believed the state was partly responsible for what had happened to the women because at the time of the murders, both Von Taylor and Edward Daly were fugitives from justice. The state of Utah owned the halfway house they failed to return to. Thus, the state of Utah knew the men. knew they were dangerous and knew they were missing. While he was on the run,

Vaughn Taylor called a friend back at the halfway house once, and he left a message for the man. For about a week, they stayed at Taylor's father's cabin, also in Summit County, not all that far from the Tita's cabin. This information, as well as the information that the two had broken into other cabins

and stolen firearms were relayed to that friend. Taylor also told a friend that they were waiting for a family to return so that they could kill them and take their vehicle. And I think what's very important is that this man at the halfway house who received this information immediately told the authorities there what Taylor had told him. And the Titas believe that armed with all of this information, the state of Utah was negligent when they failed to apprehend Taylor and Delhi before they were able to harm their family members. The court assumed that there was a duty by the state to protect Beth Potts, K, and the rest of the Titas from harm,

and focused on whether or not the state had governmental immunity from that harm caused to them. The Utah Governmental Immunity Act holds that the state of Utah is immune from liability for injuries caused by a negligent act when the injuries due to assault, battery, or false imprisonment. These are exceptions to their usual governmental immunity waiver. And the Titas believe that since they did not specify kidnap, murder, or wrongful death, the government is not immune for those injuries. The court held that because assault and battery were committed when Kay and Beth were shot, and that the deaths happened due to the assault and the battery, that the state was immune to liability for their negligence. The court also held that Taylor and Delhi, kidnapping Lene and Tricia, fell under false imprisonment.

And therefore, the state was also immune for their negligence resulting in their kidnapping. The court also held that the murder and kidnapping charges were criminal offenses, and that a wrongful death suit was for civil actions, that couldn't be punished criminally. The Titas then reasoned with the courts that it was actually in the Utah Constitution, that the state and everyone else responsible must be subject to liability for wrongful death. But the courts applied the law to the letter and decided that when it was made law in the Utah Constitution in 1895, that quote,

the right of action to recover damages for injuries resulting in death shall never be abrogated, that there was no express right to bring wrongful death lawsuits against the state. The state of Utah was found to have governmental immunity for the negligence that ultimately allowed Beth Potts and K. Tita to be murdered. Their wrongful death suit was dismissed. For the Tita family, it was never about the money. That was. wasn't going to bring back their loved ones or erase the memories of what happened to them, they just wanted the state to bear some responsibility for allowing these two men to be free to commit the evil crimes that they did.

Since the trial, Deli seems to have accepted his feet. He has not appealed his sentence and as reported on the TV show 48 hours. He actually wrote Linnea a letter in which he apologized and explained that he was not the same person anymore, and he had grown. Linnae held on to that letter for a decade before she decided to forgive Edward Deli for murdering her mother and grandmother and for terrorizing herself and the rest of her family. She said that forgiving him does not mean that she would ever forget the acts he committed or what he took from her, but that she felt it was a gift to herself to forgive him and a weight-lifted. Deli, who is now 53, is still serving a sentence at Central Utah Correctional Facility.

However, has appealed his death penalty numerous times. If he were to be executed, though, he selected lethal injection as the method. And Morph, I just don't know if that's something that I would be able to do, right? Forgive a person who killed members of my family. It's amazing to me that Lanay was able to do that and actually looked at it as though it was for herself, right? To forgive Edward, I think according to her was a weight lifted offer. I would like to think I'd be able to do it, but when it came to it, I just don't know if I could. Forgiveness is not one of my strong suits. I'll just say that right up front. And this is the

ultimate act to try and forgive, right? Murder. Yeah, I think I'm with you. It would be very hard for me to forgive someone that had done something like that to my family. But I can also see Linnae's reasoning that something like that weighing on you nonstop could easily eat you up from inside and probably cause more harm in the long term to your health and your well-being. So I can totally understand her forgiving him. And hopefully she does feel some relief from that after forgiving him. Yeah, I mean, when you look at it, it's probably the right way to go about it for yourself, for your mental health, for, you know, moving on with your life. I don't know.

I think everybody would handle it differently and there are a lot of factors that go into it probably, your belief system, your ability to forgive. Like I said, mine's not very high. But I always find it interesting as you and I talk about. some of these cases when people are able to make that decision. And like you said, she's not going to forget. No one's ever going to forget what this man or these two men did to their family. That's never going to happen. But the concept of forgiveness in these types of cases to me is very interesting. But back to

Vaughan Taylor's appeal. His first argument for appeal was that the jury was biased due to the large number of Latter-day Saints on the jury and that the prosecution had selected these jurors due to their faith.

The prosecution's jury selection notes did include the faith of prospective jurors, but it was ultimately, ruled that taking notes on jurors was normal and that it could not be proven that priority was given only to jurors of a certain fate. Valid reasons to dismiss or not choose jurors who identified with different faiths were also found, such as having viewed media coverage of the case or trial

or showing up late for their juror duties that prove that they were not targeted for not being Latter-day Saints. On November 19th, 2008, Rolf Tita passed away from cancer. He had family at his side who described his passing as peaceful. It was another sad loss for the Tita family, but their spiritual and religious beliefs eased their minds and comforted them. In 2018, Utah lawmakers were getting close to abolishing the death penalty. Beth's grandson and Kay's nephew, Dave Noriega, spoke out against the,

to the House Criminal Justice and Law Enforcement Committee. The bill in question HB 379 did not pass. Meanwhile, Von Taylor kept appealing his death sentence. He appealed on the basis of factual innocence. And on February 25, 2019, a federal appeals court found that Deli's gun was the one responsible for the lethal shots to both KTida and Beth Potts. So they determined that it was Delhi's gun that killed the women, not Taylor's. This was the exact opposite of what was stated in Delhi's trial.

Due to this, Taylor was able to appeal another time, stating that he had ineffective counsel. He now believed that his death penalty was directly the result of his guilty plea, which was unconstitutional. Taylor stated he only pleaded guilty in the first place due to, to ineffective counsel. Everyone following the case felt quite safe that this appeal would also be turned down. There's absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind that Von Taylor is a cruel person and that he was there in the cabin that day, waiting to terrorize the Tita family.

It's on film, and he was caught with the two Tita daughters as hostages. In most people's minds, there was no way this man's sentence could ever be overturned or changed. Many felt it was what he deserved for what he did. But shockingly, on March 10th, 2020, a judge ruled that his guilty plea indeed was unconstitutional. And due to that, his death sentence must be vacated. The guilty plea was seen as unconstitutional because Taylor's public defender hadn't researched the case enough and had assumed his client's guilt and based his defense on that assumption. He didn't hire any experts who may have been able to help Taylor. and he didn't hire any investigators.

Taylor's lawyer didn't even visit the crime scene as he tried to make sense of the case. Since he didn't feel that his client had a fighting chance due to that failure to investigate the case, the lawyer gave Taylor faulty advice that a guilty plea would be his best bet. Deli's sentence for the same set of crimes and circumstances proved that Taylor's lawyer was incorrect. and perhaps he should have gone to trial. And I think more if that's exactly what you and I talked about earlier, it just didn't seem to make sense that, you know,

you would plead guilty knowing you were going to get the death penalty or without some type of guarantee that you weren't going to get the death penalty, why not roll the dice and take your chances with a jury like Delhi did? I think this sort of opens up some mixed feelings for myself in that this guy is innocent until proven guilty. And we want him to have a fair trial. It's like everyone deserves a fair trial. But at the same time, we know what he was involved in, what he did. So I sort of wrestle with the fair trial aspect versus knowing what kind of predator this guy is.

And I sort of have mixed feelings about that. no i get that exactly i mean i don't think anyone listening to this episode is going to think okay taylor should be let out or you know he should get away with doing what he did i don't think that at all i think what some people may look at and it's kind of what you and i have been talking about is the sentencing you know a lot of people are going to say you know they're they're fine with him getting the death penalty. But again, to me, I just don't understand taking that almost voluntarily as a defendant when you could go to trial and see what happens.

Now, you may end up with the same fate, but you may not. But going into it, pleading guilty and knowing you're going to get to death penalty, again, I just don't understand it. And I think that's what the court is saying. Right? If that's the advice that his attorney gave him, that's not great advice. I think the Constitution clearly says that every defendant is innocent until proven guilty and has the right to a thorough defense. If his attorney didn't do a competent job in representing him and defending him properly, then maybe he does deserve to have this happen. In the most recent news about this development, the Utah Attorney General's Office planned to appeal this decision with Denver's 10th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Prosecutors are irritated with the ruling because even if only one man had shot anyone that day, they were both equally culpable for the murders. Linne and Tricia believe that both men were just as responsible for terrorizing them and their family as the other was, and that both had deserved the death penalty. for now, 56-year-old Vaughn Taylor still sits on death row in Utah State Prison. And more if I think if I was in the family's position, I would feel the exact same way. And I think it goes back to that old saying, if you rob a bank with someone and they decide to shoot someone while you're in the middle of that robbery, then you're part of that murder. One thing we haven't talked too much about is the cabin. Tida's tranquility.

The cabin did have quite severe fire. damage due to Taylor and Delhi trying to get rid of the evidence that they were there, they figured that their fingerprints, along with the bodies, and that damning self-made videotape would burn and be gone forever. Investigators described the scene as a mini war zone. What wasn't damaged by the fire was still a reminder of the crime. There were bullet holes in the walls. The walls had bloody handprint smeared on them.

them and there were drops of blood dripping down them. A pool of Rolf's blood covered the cabin floor. Blood froze into icicles as it seeped through the floorboards. The Tita family decided not to let Taylor and Delhi take anything more from them than what they had already taken on December 22nd, 1990. The two men had taken away their beloved Kay and her mother, Beth. They had tried to take Rolf away from Trish and Linnet. but thankfully failed.

These men would not take away their ability to create memories together in a beautiful place that they all loved. The men would not take away the place that the family last spent their days together. The Tita family rebuilt and repaired the cabin, and to this day have family gatherings there. It's a place of healing for Lene and Tricia. Lennie told 48 hours that she feels her father with her during important moments in her life. Now, the sisters visit the Oakley Cabin with her. their own children and continue to make new memories there. And Deli and Taylor can never touch those memories. So Morph, as we wrap up this case, you know, it's a heartbreaking one, no doubt

about it. One of the big things that really jumped out at me as we were researching this case was why Taylor and Deli felt the need to take off. I mean, totally aside from what they ended up doing, was horrible. These guys had been paroled. Now, they were in a halfway house, but, you know, to my way of thinking, that's a transition period to you getting out on your own. They're, they're not in prison. I just couldn't understand why they felt the need to, you know, take off from this halfway home and go on the run, steal a car, murder people. I just didn't get it. And I don't know that they've ever said it.

If they have, we certainly couldn't find it in the research. The reasoning behind it just seemed so strange. I mean, these were not people who had broken out of prison and were wanted. They were just and a halfway home. You know, I just didn't get it. Yeah, I think maybe there's something to say about them just being bad guys that were going to get in trouble and got in trouble sooner rather than later. Some people are just not able to change because they had done the crime and done the time and still willing to risk that.

It just doesn't make sense like you mentioned. No, but what you're saying does make some sense, right? If these are people that knew they were not going to stay on the straight and narrow anyway, well, hell, we might as well get it started. You can almost hear them saying that to each other. You know, we can't live by the rules in the halfway house. We know we're going to start a life of crime up again anyway. Let's get it started. It doesn't make sense to me. Now, it also obviously doesn't make sense to terrorize a family and murder people.

But, you know, none of this stuff makes sense. You just wonder what was going on in their minds after being parole. Most people would think, okay, that's great. I've been paroled. I did my time. I'm going to get back to my life. Well, apparently for them, their life was crime and carnage. And it was going to be that way.

So they decided to get it going. When you're a person that doesn't live that kind of lifestyle, perhaps it could never make sense to you or I. But someone that lives that life. style, it might be common that a lot of people fall back into those patterns. And then, you know, I think the other thing that I found very fascinating is that the surviving family members, the kids still go back to that cabin, take their children, and they're making new memories. I think that's a thing that a lot of people probably wouldn't be able to do, know,

what happened there. But you can tell it's almost like they've made the determination that, you know, this was a place where we had so many great memories. We're not going to let these two guys take all of that away from us. They've already taken enough. We're not going to let them take it all. Yeah, I think there's some very positive things that come out of this family being as strong as they are.

And we talked a little bit about it, how they forgave these guys for doing what did because they didn't want to carry that around with them. So I think these these people were survivors and they didn't want to be victims. And I think the last thing is, you know, what is going to be the ultimate for von Taylor? Right. Right now it's up in the air. The judge said that his death sentence had to be vacated. There's an appeal. It's ongoing. Obviously, they're not going to let this guy out, but is it possible that his death sentence gets changed to a life sentence? I think it is. But we'll have to wait and see on that.

Yeah, and I think we've talked about it in several cases recently where there's any kind of court movement is the process is very slow due to COVID. So we don't know at this point how long it's going to take to hear on that. Thanks goes out to Sunny Landon for writing and research assistance in this episode. As always, if you love the show, but you haven't done so yet. go out, take a minute, give us a five-star rating. You can leave a review. But keep telling your friends about the criminology podcast.

That word of mouth goes a long way. If you want to find us on social media, we're on Twitter with the handle at Criminology Pod. You can also find us on Facebook by searching for Criminology Podcast or by searching for our podcast discussion group, which is Criminology Podcast, Discussion and Fans. All right. So that is it for our episode on the Tita Family Murders. but Morph, you and I will be back with everyone next Saturday night with a brand new episode.

So for Mike and Morf. We'll talk to you next week. Take care, everyone.