Critical Role & Sagas of Sundry - Inside Ten Candles: Eclipse | Series Wrap-Up and Q&A

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

After ten chapters of tragic horror, gamemaster Ivan Van Norman and players/producers Denise Pantoja and TJ Rotell break down your biggest questions about Ten Candles: Eclipse.   Video versions are available at https://www.youtube.com/geekandsundry Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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turns at AKA.m.S.C.C. Welcome to the 10-camp-C. handles eclipse Q and A. With me here we have head of production and fellow producer T.J. Rotel. Hello! Also fellow player or victim? Both? Yeah. One of those lucky enough to die by the hand of Ivan Van Norman. Trying to slink away to my left is Ivan Terrormonger, master of Nightmares Van Norman. I'm here. You made it buddy. You made it 40 players later, you're still here. God, it looks so haggard by the last episode.

It was perfect, though. I thought it was perfect. You were playing into it, right? And I think you were, I think you, actually, you're the one that made the comment. I was like, you know, it's really, it's really in sight for you, for you to look like crap, just like everybody else after the last 40 episodes. I did not say that. The tie was a little looser. The hair was a little crazier.

Yes. I think the exact question, though, was, do you own hairsprings? Do you know and the answer is the answer is So that was the first question of the show Does I have an own hair spray? Answer is no A flip is what it is. He likes to go natural. Yeah it's it's much easier When I wake up and then I don't do my hair and then I go do my work It falls beautifully and it really just as if you've seen a bunch of the stuff that

Ivan's done on the channel. He definitely tailors his look to each specific show and it works out really, really well and I think this worked out for 10 Candles Eclipse. My name is Denise Montthoha if you don't know me. I'm a producer, I produced 10th Candles. Also victims. Twice. Yeah, we got we got killed twice. Two times. Dron and quartered. Yeah. Dron. Spoiler alert. Hey, if you're watching the Q&A you probably watched all the episodes. I don't know you don't watch Q&As on movies that you have to

haven't seen? I do it all the time. Yeah, every time. By the way, hi, Aki. I see your chat. Hello, hello to everyone in chat. Hello. I see you, Aki. Hello. So, why do you say it so creepily? I see you. That's better. It's more creepy. So, great. So what are we here to do, Denise? We're here to talk about 10 candles eclipse. Let's start at the beginning. And this actually helps, you just mentioned twice, we died twice, if you did not know, or if you've only a few of the episodes. We did, we ran a one shot that we ended up

showing on International Tabletop Day. And it was myself, T.J., Amy Dallin, and Alquin Gersh run by this Madman. And this was our first foray into 10 candles. So you, where did the game come from? So. Other than Stephen Dewey, thank you very much. Yes.

From Californ. I mean. So I had, I had, I, I, I, occasionally we'll just go to indie book publishers and just look at what they have and then just grab six or seven books and then walk away with them and then go through it so ten candles was one of the OG ones when when like so discovered dread first and as a mechanic it was great and then people started recommending ten candles and I picked that up and I loved it and I wanted to run it but I always

had that issue of like how do you make ten candles look good because it's supposed to be in the darkness. It's supposed to be only illuminated by candlelight. Right. And it's unlike Dred, which you can build a suspension mechanic and it can drop down, you can rebuild it again, right? It's good for one-offs, but you can build lots of stories. Ten candles, ultimately all characters die. So for me, it was like, how do you do that as like a series or how do you do that as any more than just a show? And then I watched it a bunch on other channels like Hyper, who were doing it as well too.

And I was like, okay, well, that's fun. And I always wanted to play it, but never really had a chance to do it. And so, you know, when the opportunity to finally run, and it was like, screw it, let's do 10 candles. Stop thinking about it so much and just do it. Yeah, I remember when you came in, we were talking about ITTD. I was such a goop-who head about it. Well, that was even before.

This is just on the, for the ITTD version, you'd come in, and we'd ask you like, well, do you want to run a one-shot? at the day and you're like, I got this game, when itching a tryout. Oh, right. That's a tragic horror game. It's called 10 candles. I remember we pulled some folks from the audience. We did like a 50-50 split on like, we got some people from the team that were really

interested in playing it. And we knew some friends from outside that our hosts and such that wanted to play it. And we kind of got together for ITD and it was magic. I remember getting off the table being, I believe it was the first one to die. getting off the table, going over to Sean, who was staring at the monitor, and we both looked at each other and were like, this is the show, right?

And instantly, we just started coming up with like, okay, where it's going to be 40 players. We got all this stuff, and then that's when you came in and were like, I don't know, guys, this is, this is a, the game's literally built to be a one-off thing you do. How the fuck are we going to make this work for 40 people over 10 episodes? Very interestingly, I was like,

I don't know if we can make it that interesting. interesting and I'm like, hold on just a second. I have faith. Yeah. I have faith in all of us and we, I mean, shit. I don't know. What do you guys think? Did we make it interesting?

The 10 episodes? But that was the, and I remember after having that conversation being like, oh, think about it. You know, think about it. And then going home and kind of thinking about it. And I read the book again that night. Like I just read through the book again and kind of thought about it. It's like, all right, well, if it's gonna be about people dying, then there needs to be a giant event that ties them all together.

Yeah, you know. And I think originally we were, the idea, as all ideas began, the idea originally began, it was a time travel. I think I originally pitched to you like, hey, hey, you know, everything happened, but kind of like time stories. Well, it was similar to like end game

and how they handled that. Right, and Quantum Leap. It was just kind of one of those where we're gonna repeat the same time. So every single time characters died, the next group would then be informed about how the first group went. But it was, I think the original pitch was like four players go into the breach ten times to try to save some post-apocalyptic event, 12 monkey style. But, and spoiler alert, they inevitably die for every single run. And then we got into that and I can't remember

what initially nixed that whole idea, but it was definitely something that I think I remember thinking about it being just a little too much because it was, if there was a success, if there was always a success mechanic and 10 candles does everything it can to remove the success mechanic, then it just didn't feel like it was going to have an arc all the way across it. Well, it's funny because I remember you coming in and, I remember that idea getting pitched. I think it was at a state. And I had a call and you'd pitch me the idea. And I was excited about it because I know you and I know what you're capable of and we've seen

you, you know, kick all kinds of ass on our shows before. But I was a little nervous about it, because it didn't feel like, like, you know, when we initially thought of it, I was thinking like that Romero verse of like, we're just going to drop players in the world and the shit's going on. Right. But I was intrigued by the time travel thing,

and I was like getting through it and get through it and getting through it. And then when I'd come back, you were like, and it's the time travel thing. And I was like, okay, okay? And it's like, what I want to do is have the moon crash into the fucking earth. And I was like, yeah, that works. That's cool.

Let's do it. Yeah. Let's do it. Yeah. Well, however else to it. And then I remember after we went through that, I sat and I was like, okay, well, I know nothing about astrophysics. So let's. You faked it really well.

You really did. I also had a great phone call with one of my old buddies, Mujigay Cooper, aka Mu, aka Dr. Mu, who was a planetary protection engineer over at JPL. Oh. And I was on King of the Nerds with them back in the Nerd days. But I had a lovely half an hour call from her where I basically said, Hey.

No. Obviously this is never going to happen. But if it could happen, and a theoretical offense, how am I thinking here? And so I described that's what the tidal surges were and the earthquakes because, you know, the moon's now messing with, you know, Earth's gravitational field. And once it starts getting close enough to go into the row, what was it, what did I learn the other day, the Roche limit.

Once something enters the atmosphere and the gravitational forces between two objects are so strong that it has inevitable collapse to the point of where they start breaking up each other. And that was why once it started getting close, like the rock dust was just falling upon it because Earth's gravity was just like pulling apart the moon and landing it.

like episode nine or whatever it was, eight or nine, you know. That was, uh, that was, that was super fun. Yeah, man, it was really awesome. It was really cool to see the story grow throughout the ten episodes and get to play in that world. Because it all, we, I think, literally was it. Like, I think episode one was just like, okay,

there's things under the ground. That was literally, I'd like this box, by the way, this box, but, by the way, here's everyone's. Just don't show the front of it. These are, these are all the... Oh, yeah. Here is literally... I'm going to have to clean these.

up but I'm gonna do it right now. This is everybody, here's everybody's corpses and their ripped pieces. I saved everything. I want to make something a thing out of it. A little shadow box.

A little set deck now. A little set deck on the far. That's great. We'll leave it until the end. Yeah, that was the cool thing about the whole moon bit is that all we knew was at some point the moon was going to crash in. there was things under the ground

because it needed to be more than the moon like the moon was great but there needed to be more than the moon there needed to be a them that was what we started with and episode one it was it and by the time we were in episode 10 it was like there was this whole lore

oh yeah like the whole universe got built out it was crazy I remember the day you came to tell me about the monsters and I lost it and like every time I'd get like Ivan knows I love monsters where Denise and I are big horror fans

but you kind of be like you're something to do with the monsters and they'd be like they just kept getting cooler and cooler and cooler and cooler as the world progressed. I tried to shave it as long as I could to not reveal them. Oh, it was great. As soon as you reveal the monster, they no longer become a monster.

They become a threat. Yeah. You know? And a threat is fine, but as soon as our monsters were no longer monsters, so is here in case. Should we get into... Is Mujahigate in chat? Mary Hand says that Dr. Moo is here. Oh, Mujing-Gis!

Dr. Mouschoo. on Because Space. That's right. I know she's in Because Space, but I didn't know she was in the studio right now. I have to text her to make sure to say hi before she waits. Okay.

Go and do that. While Ivan texts Dr. Moo, let's hit chat and start taking some questions for this Q&A. We've got some here already. So the Vembrinks. The Vembrinks, as in the brinks that they wrote. Well, I know I know I wrote one for episode 10.

Right, Ivan? That was me writing the Monsters Brink, Right? Yeah. For the last brink on the last episode. Do you remember, do you think it would be more fun to do these in chronological order? I think it's way more fun to do it in chronological.

Yeah, then let's have, you've got the brinks in your book. Well, I also have them physically. Let's just wait until those cards come. We'll make sure we have everything, and then we can go to the next question. We're going to get the brinks together, and then we'll do the brinks from episode one, episode 10 for them. Ooh, can you recall maybe the biggest curveball that one was thrown.

Oh, yeah. Everyone, every episode did something that I was like, okay, what am I going to do now with this? But I would say the ones that were like, I mean, even episode one with Christina and having to deal with the whole Raider Village was just like, okay, how are we going to? Okay, well, here we go.

I don't know where this is going to end. It's going to be bad. but let's just see it through to its natural and hopefully not incredibly offensive in conclusion. And then there was obviously the Xander Baby incident. And I like to... Which was eclipsed, no pun intended. Pun intended?

Yeah, with the cat. But that's the thing. It's like I told Zander this, even after that episode, it's like, Zander giveth, and then he taketh away. because he both made that problem for me and then he solved that problem for me. Solid player. Two solid truths.

That's all it was. But that one was big. I would say another, because I saw in chat about Starkey's well too, I would say another curveball that kind of was like, oh, okay, okay, here we go, is when a truth came out to say that there was someone in, there was someone close.

I think they said there was someone close or there was someone inside who was, and I think they were trying to save themselves because they were like, is not hostile. You know, and I remember the truth being like not hostile. I'm like, all right, who can I put close to them? That isn't hostile, but would also have survived probably a lot of nasty things.

And that's how Starchy came into being. It's like I had to put somebody in a bunker somewhere and then had them not be hostile, but not be friendly either. Yeah, tough challenge. So, yeah, because I couldn't just hand them, like, here, here's your five-year supply of survival. Games over. Yeah.

And I love Starge, man. Starci was such a, I remember when you were doing Starci on the stage, and I was at Village watching that, that was like, I afterwards I was like, man, Starci is like one of those characters. It's going to be, like, it's one of my favorite characters in the lore. Yeah, sometimes, and NPCs, they're awesome. And in a game, like, 10 Candles, it's really powerful to have them. but just like everything else,

it's honestly easier to kill a player than it is in an NPC, and it gave him like 10 candles, because the NPC is objectively someone that you get attached to, unless it's literally like a red shirt, but your inclination in playing these tragic horror games is to find something that you can save and then hold onto it as tight as you can.

And when other players make choices, they tend to have a lot more agency, and so it is not so much your fault. You know? Yeah. Or your fault. I guess it's kind of a hard, a hard thing to say into it.

So, um, uh, yeah. So that's the one thing about like, like, that's the one thing is just about,

you know, but yeah, but obviously Starci and like, what do they call them at the end of the day, Mozart? They called him Mozart, the guy in the bunker

who killed himself with overdosing painkillers. Um, in episode, I don't remember that. Yeah, episode nine. He was listening to Mozart,

buts. Oh, I think they called a Mozart in chat. which was fine and yeah so just the amount of people who need to be alive they could be great and there was even some people in the silo I remember as well too

but you know they got they all got killed I don't think we ever really had an episode in which an NPC was carried through them consistently not not I don't think since the ITTD version right yes

which hit with like all the force of a Mac truck if you haven't seen it I highly recommend it not Montague, Montague, Montague. Montague. That's right. Not just because we were in it and it was great,

but it was just like, it was the very first time I had ever played anything like that. Even in my acting career, I had ever been able to delve that deep into my emotions into like that. It was just, it was so freeing. It was amazing. Yeah, for sure. It was amazing to experience.

Thank you. Well, I, I mean, I mean, that one, that one was probably the most powerful in BC to play with as well too. Oh man. Yeah. And that was the thing too is it's really easy with kids to obviously default always take care of the kid.

Yeah. But I didn't want, like, that's a, that is something that's something I really just, but that was something I just really wanted to protect for your game. Yeah. You know, because trying to replicate that same emotional drive and feeling in another episode down the road, it just wouldn't have the same impact. So I was trying to find, that's the thing too about tragic, is, you know, tragedy is universal.

But just like Shakespeare, there is a certain amount of things that will always be tragic, you know, and you just have to find new ways to dress it up. So, you know, yeah. I saw on there as well too. The hardest death had to narrate, oh, the hardest most satisfying one I think was Vince's.

Ooh, dude, that was ice cold. Ice cold. That's the one to this day where I'm like, I don't know why it just is. Because his that was honestly probably the most malicious I've ever been

and a death because it's all he wanted. The fact that he wanted what everyone was avoiding, which is what made it the most poetic and beautiful. This is that all he wanted was to be wherever she was, whether that was in the belly of a collector or dead. And it was just better. And I told Aki and I told a bunch of other people that the quiet little deaths are always my favorite.

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Yeah, drawn in quartered. Well, just tragic and, and visual death. Sure, you know, because for me, it's always, it's really, you can have shock value. Like, you can have someone get sucked out through a, you know, dinner-sized plate airhole. And you can't have people who, like Aki, who just, Just went, huh.

Was that Nora? Just went, what? I think it was. Was it Norah? Yeah, it was Nora. Yeah, because Trish broke her back, if I remember correctly. So I'm saying these things like they're the real people. Remember that time Trish broke the back?

Yeah. So you have another question from chat from a Cordomor. Sorry, but pronouncing it correctly. Were they just there to feed on the misery of the Earth's inhabitants? I don't know what they were. originally, by episodes one and three, they were just there to scare the living crap out of the players. They eventually did evolve through brinks and other things, and we'll get to that with the brinks. There was, and just to spoil this one, there was a brink in which it was described as they feed off of our sorrow and misery.

Oh, God. You know, so that was one brink that was handed, so that had to be incorporated and played into it. But, you know, it really was never the question of how they fed on it. We, you know, I think by the end of it, the, again, kind of calling them the collectors at the stage is the best name I have for them for what they eventually became. Yeah. But, yeah, they absolutely were at first there to just remove as many people off of the planet as possible. and then eventually they did start being drawn in by the misery and sorrow. The more, I don't know if this ever, it probably never translated,

and I apologize if it did, or if it didn't, but the collectors were much more attracted to them when they were really feeling it, like feeling the misery. Yeah, yeah. But if they were feeling inspired and hopefully even towards episode 9, when you guys are just like, screw it, we're pushing through, you know, they completely ignore it. Yeah. You know?

So the more hope you had in your heart, the less like the collectors were willing to take you. But as soon as you had sorrow and fear, by the time that brink dropped, by the time that brink dropped, everything passed that point was basically, if you had sorrow and fear, they were going to come right for you. Yeah, and that's the magic of Ten Candles and the collaborative storytelling element of it is, you know, we all had an idea of what this, story was going to be, but those brinks, man. Yeah. They sure do change the world. Yep, they do. Oh, and it's Pizzuzu.

What were those monoliths? Those monoliths are what we'd like to call the inciting incident. Yeah. In general, though, the monoliths were a way to create a structure that players could not run away from. They could get, they could go away towards it. They could go away from it, but they could never get away from it. There's always going to be another one. It was always going to be another one.

That was why it was so important that they were equidistant from each other. We found out towards the end that they were actually pinheading the globe. They were actually pinheading the globe. Yeah. So, yes, you had that look on your face. Is it one from my TTTD? I don't think so, but take a look. No, because I got these cards for the show specifically.

Oh, this one's mine. Okay, great. Well, this next question, well, this next question, we can get to this question. I think we'll hit the Brinks. I think we can all pretty much cover this one with a moment. Which moments made you tear up? If they did. I mean, I know there were several moments throughout the series that got me pretty good.

Did you have any moments that really got you emotionally? Like, I know you're a rock when you're on camera. You're constantly professional, but anything pushed you to that point where you thought you might break? You know, ironically, it wasn't until after episode six, because we shot, we shot eight, We shot two in a day. So we shot four of them in two days. And then when we picked it back up the next week and we shot another two and then three.

So I would say by episode six, like I came home and was thinking about the game and the survivors and about, and occasionally we'll do this. I'll officially put myself in the shoes of the players and thinking about just what is important to me and what I would want to save and what I would, I was frankly thinking about what I would do

if I was a player in this game, and I just lost it. Like, I just couldn't maintain it. And I remember just sitting there, you know, laying down before going to sleep, and just like, all the emotions came out, and it was just one of those. I literally was like, I think it just held on

to all the survivors' pain for a little too long. You texted me about that, didn't you? I think maybe I even did, too. I remember, and I just remember holding on to all of that pain. Or maybe he tweeted it. And then I was just like, yeah, that's it. I had to let it all go. And it was just one of those things where.

Got to bend the steam, you know. Yeah, so it wasn't, I wouldn't say it was one moment. I would say it was a collection of the moments that eventually just let it all out. Did you have a moment that got you specifically hard throughout the season? I mean, there were so many. There was a moment in every episode that did that for me. And then, of course, there was our episode. Yours was tough.

The ITTD one was tough because that was so... Oh, I'm talking about 10, but yeah, that was... Oh, yeah, yeah. I have... I cried so much in the ITTD one. I think I've said this a couple of times before. I was inconsolable. I was so in the story and in the moment I just couldn't stop.

Which I think is a testament to, you know, the storytelling that the level of storytelling that Ivan gets to pull out of people is that he captures us in this world and he keeps us there and we live through that story together. And it really does. It rips the raw emotion right out of it. Absolutely. Yeah. But more than, not more than that, but as far as like this series went, Jake Bennett, you're a monster. Oh, yeah.

I was impressed. There was a lot of people I was super impressed with that I didn't, like, you never know. You never know until you roll. And there's people who, you know, I was like, let's give it a shot. Let's see how it goes. And see what they bring to the table. and there was some people who just really fucking brought it to the table. And I love that.

I love discovering new people, because I always have this idea of, like, you need some constants in your games, especially when it comes to entertainment, like you need to have people who you know they're going to deliver, and then you need to have a wild card. You need to always have a wild card. We don't know, we're just with casting.

Well, it was really cool to get to pull in, because, I mean, we see Jake and Darrell from As in the Wisdom here in the building, and they're two of the funniest people I've ever mentioned. that in my life. They're talented people, they're talented performers. They play crazy wacky characters. They're crazy and zany. But I mean, pulling those two into this very

dark world, especially in RPG where they're not really used to doing that and being so pleasantly surprised by that choice, like the two of them killed it. Yeah. I think to cite yours too, like Jake murdered me in episode 10, I lost it. And I was particularly

proud of Daryl at what he brought as far as like his acting and his point in the choices that that he made and how he did not mind leaning into that bad guy a little bit. It wasn't even a bad guy. He was just, he just was playing, he was just playing someone we all know. We've all met that person. And he played it, and he played it so great.

Dave and Net, I celebrate him for taking, what did he say, the toxic masculinity ingredients and making a soup out of it. Like between what his virtues and vice that were dealt to him and his brink, he's like, well, I guess I get, I guess I guess. I guess I get to play. Super off type. Yeah. Well, there's that, too.

It's fascinating because you go in with an idea about your character and then... Oh, and Dan Casey, sorry. Real quick, Denise. Dan Casey, damn it. Oh, yeah, Dan was another nice... Oh, man. I mean, I knew he's good. I knew he's a talented asshole, but man, he...

Got it. He got it, too. I've been won Dan Casey in a game for fucking ever. And I was just... That first cast between David, Christina and Josephine and that was just a there was no better way to kick that off yeah I'm sorry please continue that's okay no I mean we were actually it was a very tough job to put all this together to put all 40 together and then to place them in a way

that would accent each other well enough like we were very specific about you know obviously scheduling which oh my gosh yeah I mean listen it's a nightmare to be By the way, I'm sorry to interrupt, but... Denise did all the schedules. Yeah, kudos to you for producing this show the way you did. Scheduling 40 actors. I get so many text messages at like 8 p.m. And she'd be like, okay.

So what about this, this, and this for episode of this? Because this person cannot do it on this day. Can you swing that? And I'm like... And sometimes I'd be that guy and be like, I don't like that setup, Denise. Do a different one. But more often than not, it was weird.

A lot of the casting really just came down to schedules. Well, we did. We did basically a fantasy draft. We put everyone we knew on the board. Like, I mean, we had 60-some people on the board, and it was just, it was building teams of people. How do you, you know, because we all know these people so well, and we all know, most of them had played in the channel before.

And it was, like, pulling down, like, we know too many talented people. Like, if we were going to, we could have done most of them. multiple seasons of this with so many talented people that we had. We know we wanted to keep this to the 10 episodes for this round. Right. And just deciding, like, sorting through the talent and then putting them together into pods and just. But also bringing new faces in that we hadn't really worked with before or who, you know,

hadn't been in here in a while. When you schedule a lot of people, it's like you can't, like, introduce yourself to a whole lot of new people. Right. You have to balance it out. Yeah. And so there was a lot of people, like David Blue was on deck for We're a Live thing, and we never even had a chance to get to him.

So it was just really good to get him in a game. Yeah. You know? And so there's, yeah, there's a lot of people. I was just excited about Jason Carl, who never had. It was awesome. You get to see him, like, yeah. And he's obviously incredible.

I mean, he knew exactly what he was doing, and I love that he leaned into everything. And he played himself, but he was not him in that same way. Well, and not only was it scheduling 40 different people, It was also scheduling 40 different people while D&D and Ccast was going on, Comic-Con, like all sorts of other conventions. Meanwhile, I'm trying to do the same with C6 because we were losing half of our cast. If we had kept to, you know, the live schedule, we're losing half of our cast to all of these really great opportunities that everybody had. So it was it was a summer of scheduling. Let me just say.

Denise Pantoja's summer of scheduling. Summer of scheduling. I don't want to do it again like that. Speaking of Jason Carl. Yeah. Hi, Carl. Ivan, what was it like GMing for Jason Carl coming from Gemini lighting? Lightning.

Jason, I respect the hell out of that man. Having been a player for him in L.A. by night before getting a chance to GM him, his capacity for putting together the tangled webs that he's weaving. is always just very, like, it's incredibly insightful to watch, just a way that he manages to balance the world that has given to him with as much politics and as much strife as constantly as going down. And he's really good at leading his players,

but not taking away their agency. Like, I really respect that about him is that he can really guide a game, but he is not a railroader by any chance. So it was one of those, like, It's when you GM for other GMs, especially GMs you respect, it is really hard to get past that bug of, I hope they like it, you know?

I really hope they like it. Oh, yeah. And so my, my, there's always a little bit of performance anxiety around GMing for other GMs because you, you just, you're, you just kind of want a little bit of a Sempai notice me moment. Right. But then you got to get past that and you have to really honestly just treat them like a play. and go into it and dive in because you get too much of those brain demons going on.

Well, they're there to have fun too, you know what I mean? That's the... And we've all been in that position where especially GMs like, you know, Jason Carl and Campbell, and Campbell was working on something at the moment and he wasn't able to do it, but we did reach out to Campbell as well too about it. But we just don't get a lot of chance to play. Right. They don't get a chance to play too much and so sometimes it's just nice to give them an opportunity to play. You know, so.

Stevenson chat. Hi, Steven. Oh, hello, Steven. Mr. Dewey. Creator 10 candles. Yeah, that was another part too. We had the, I'm always a big advocate of like, especially nowadays, it's so easy to go on live plays.

And it's happening a lot now in the Wild West. It's like, we're just all playing it. But not a lot of people are asking, or at least when this stuff was starting and being new, it was just like, hey, maybe we should ask permission from game creators to see if they want their stuff. Yeah, exactly. involved. I mean, granted, yes, they probably love their games being showcased online, but still good to ask. Oh, yeah. So, you know. And then they give them the opportunity to be involved.

Which is what we love. Like, even when we did, we were live, we got Casey Whalen very involved. Very involved. Yeah, because he was a huge creative force around making that work. Yeah. And your partner for the outbreak on debt system, like we, you know, we love to work with the creators at GNS because who knows the world better than the person who built it. So why not, why not dig into that? Yeah, and he's worked, Stevens worked very hard with Calvary games to kind of like he's made his, he's made some really strong stances on how he wants to sell his games and how he wants to do his business, which I respect immensely. Like being one, an independent game developer and book publisher, is not easy. And we're certainly not buying, we're certainly not buying new cars on this shit, guys.

You do it because you love it. You don't do it because you want to rack in the dough. And it is weird, it is a lot like, it's an interactive art form. You make something that people want to participate in, and when people participate in it, it's lovely. So all the more reason to give props to the continued work that continues to come into getting these games done. Horror is a tough duck.

Yep. Horror is a tough duck, even though, and I've seen some horror games not done tastefully, you know, and that's tough because you, you do want to not tell people like you got you don't want to squelch creativity right want to be able to say hey take a risk but then you also need to acknowledge when you took the risk kind of took it a little too far we were definitely cognizant of that and we wanted to yeah we wanted everyone to be comfortable but we also we didn't want to impose any um any regulations that would

stifle creativity, but obviously we, there's, you know, there's general healthy respect that we wanted to stay within those families. It's a big conversation right now. Yeah. Consent in gaming is a huge conversation. Absolutely. And it's one of those things

where it's, it honestly boils down to everyone's got things. Everyone's got stuff. Yeah. And it's, I'm a big advocate of nothing is so important that it needs to be in the game. You know? There's no terrible thing

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It matters where you stay. Hilton for this day. Has to be a game. And if you abide by that law, then you don't need to circumvent anyone's feelings because this thing needs to be in the game. You know what I mean? So just go into it.

There's tons of terrible, wonderful things that you can wait into. You don't need to stand on a soapbox and say this is important and has to be in the game if it's going to make someone have a bad time. Yeah. Right. you know. Do we have the brinks? Are we ready to that question sitting at the top of our list? Oh god, I don't know, girl.

Oh my gosh, what were you doing this whole time? You're supposed to put them in order. You can't talk and look at those cards and organize them. Okay, chronologically. Help me out. Okay, I have, I mean, I remember mine. Oh, yeah, notes, okay, cool. Yeah, notes. Oh, okay, here's number one.

Okay, well while he's doing that, was there anyone who couldn't play you really wanted? We were actually pretty damned lucky in getting. Like Ivan mentioned, we wanted Eric to be on the show, Eric Campbell, but he just couldn't make it work with his schedule at the time. So that was a bummer, because we really wanted him to be on. But, um... I mean, off the top of my head, that's the one that I know we were pretty bummed about missing out on.

Because we love Eric, and he's such a talented jam, but he's also a really talented player. he's just a creative guy and when he gets to story tell and it's nice to have him in the room Yeah I'm trying to like Because there were so many names That went through my head this summer

That I'm like And then there were some who couldn't make it And then we ended up working it out And scheduling So I am a little unprepared to answer that question I will say Eric Yeah Eric Eric's a good choice for that one

Ivan, how we doing? I have a name He's working on it He's working on it Do we have What are we got? Anything else we could see here? Oh, here we go.

Oh, and that was from Not Always Week. It's Pazuzu, says, If you could have a dream team of players to kill in 10 candles. Oh, yeah, that's going to be Ivan all day. Let's see, let's save that one for I. I mean, you want to run one someday, too. I do, but, man. Are we talking, like, historical and fictional and, like, anybody?

I don't know. I mean, if I was going to pick the ones for my game, I would, I mean, genuinely speaking, and I don't just say this because I'm sitting next to you, I love playing with you. Like we play in a lot of D&D games together and you really bring the character commitment. I would also, again, not just because we're on camera, but I'd love to play with Ivan because his storytelling ability. And again, Ted Cannells is a-in-the-hot-seat. Yeah, well, Tim Cattell's is a game of collaborative storytelling.

It is. I would just think, like, who were the best of the best of the best storytellers? We know too many talented people. Like I said, in the casting process, it was crazy how many people we knew. But, like, in my home game for D&D, I play with my DMs. So, like, for me, like, I love Eric Campbell, but I know we'd reached out to Jake Michaels, who directed Relics and Rarities and directed World Live. But I would, I think I would put Jake in my game because I really like playing with him.

Alquin's really fun to play with. But I mean, like, I get four, if I'm getting four people, based on what I'm, based on this season, I'll keep them to this season to keep it safe and simple. I'd pick you two. I'd pick Jake Bennett. And I think just to get to do it with the two of them, I think I might go with Daryl. Oh. Because I'd love to see, like, improvisationally speaking, those two are so dialed in.

Oh, yeah. That, like, man, and we get to see that comedy improv on NASCAR and Wisdom every week. But, man, I'd love to see what the two of them side by side can do in a dark, dark world. because they both did stellar jobs individuals, but everybody. Like, genuinely speaking, everybody. Like, that's like a, what's your favorite kid situation? Like, I'd play with anyone that was in this season. They'd be welcome at my table anytime.

They're all crazy talented people. Yeah, everybody brought such a fabulous, unique perspective. I mean, there were just so many different, and I guess that's the beauty of stories like this. Like, it's just so many different viewpoints. Oh, yeah, Deborah. Yeah, Deborah's like, that's why. I dialed it into the same.

season I couldn't I mean I'll start reaching out to outside the season and have no chance of being able to populate that table there's too many good people out there we will have a cast of 20 yeah but I'm what do you think man what if you had to put a dream team together you know I covered the season you already play with these people if you had to pull anyone in the world we kind of asked you I mean yeah it was kind of you asked you ask you ask the question really at the very top I think we pulled everyone who I would really love to play with you know there are I I it's just, it's silly at this point

because there's like the, oh, you know, if scheduling was never an issue and we had a million dollars, this casting list, and then there's the like, you know, I just like playing with on a regular basis. I pulled in, I called my old gaming buddies, Shno Mozingo and Ariel Hartman. Oh, yeah, that's great.

You know, those are people who I just used to play RPGs with all the time. I was so proud of Ariel. And she was like, she told me later, she's like, her death was like, I didn't think I was actually going to die. I was just being stubborn and then I was dead and I was like, yeah, and you did great.

Yeah, and it was fun. Yeah, we were, Seteen, I mean, all the names you're Pac-Mout, like Sateen, Darren DePaul, T.J. Storm. All these people are people who I would love to play with it. I have played with. I haven't played with T.J. Storm yet. Obviously, Darren, we've only worked with Onsagas at Sondry, but I'd love to have him at the table.

Oh, Darren's great. These are all absolutely. Yeah, there's a billion awesome players. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good choices. So I think I got the brinks figured out. Now, this might be accurate.

There might be some that are like, was episode five versus episode six. We will give you a little leeway here. But based off my notes, I think this is the best order that I have for Brinks at the moment. This is just the Brinks for them. This is just the Brinks for them. And I pull down, I want to do something

with everybody's Brinks so that y'all can see it at some point, but I don't think we're gonna have enough time today. So we'll just do the them brinks. Okay. Yeah. All right, so for the first brink, which I believe was given to me and I'm not going to remember

everybody's whoever they all hand it to me so. Aki knows which one is there. Aki knows which is going on. But I believe this one was in our first table it was

no, that was our second table. I'm trying to remember who. First table was Josephine if it was to your right. Okay, I think this was, I think this was, no, it wasn't Josephine. I feel like Dan gave this to me. Oh, no.

Anyway, the brink was, I have seen them drain all compassion and empathy from all humanity. So we literally started with them draining compassion and empathy. So great. Starting strong. Starting strong. Good. And then I believe the other one, I think this one, if I remember correctly, because I wrote it down on my notes as well too. And it really been played close into the second one, which was San Francisco.

with Miss, oh, man, brains, my brain's not just going to hit all of it right now, but that brink was I have seen them reach through solid objects. Oh. Which is kind of where we started getting into the whole, like I interpreted that as that's why we're doing the whole. You know, then I decided, okay, they're burrowers. Sure. Because we didn't even know. I didn't even know what they looked like in episode one.

But by episode two, I was like, okay, well, they're burrowing. And they're going to start taking people through solid objects. Yeah. And so that's when this started becoming centipedal a little bit. I believe number three was I have seen them feed by occupying a friend's body and forcing them to devour another and themselves. And I remember this one specifically being in the silo. Yeah.

Because that was the moment in which I, that was the larvae, you know, with the little tiny collectors when they got into your mouth and then they animated you and that's when they became kind of the zombies. Well, I remember when you came, that was the moment when you came and told me one of the monsters are evolving moments and I lost my mind. Oh yeah, I got so excited.

I remember I was sitting over there on that couch losing my mind when you told me I was so stucle. Can we turn the camera to see the couch? I'm just kidding. No, actually, so that one, the one that is I've seen them, so that one was episode, now that I'm going through it, that was episode five. Oh.

Yeah. So I think episode three. Daddy Collectors. Yeah, there it is. There's episode three, because episode three was Eastern Europe. And episode four was Eastern Europe. No, the baby incident was episode five, episode four. Episode three.

There you go. Yes. Yes, three. That's correct. That was Japan. That's episode four, and if that's episode three, and that's episode six, and that's, um... Oh! No.

No, that was a little later. Here it is. Okay. Here, this is episode three. I have seen them break people's hearts and mind. Which just kind of added into the whole like, oh, you know, we're sucking the life energy out of folks. So that's doubled down. That's two brinks that have basically said, oh, you know, you're, that the awful parts of, that they are feeding off the awful parts of humanity.

And that started percolating stuff in the brain. They're like like living juices. You know, they're going to take the rind and they're going to take the seeds and they're going to extract what they want out of it and pulp out the rest. I don't want to be juiced. And then they...

I mean, you weren't. You were horribly ripped apart. Yeah, and then I think it literally got even farther. You can't believe how many brinks literally laid into this. One of them was, I've seen them feast on the fallen and hopeless. That was episode... Rough. That was Eastern Europe.

Yeah, that was them with the caustic fog. T.J. So, you know, I've seen them feast on the fallen and the hopeless. And then it was the silo, which I've seen them feed by occupying a friend's body and forcing them to devour themselves and other. Because they weren't eating each other and they weren't, the creatures weren't eating other people like they did in the ISS until this brink came out and they basically laid that out.

Which was great because now we have something other than collectors. We have little tiny collectors that forced you to eat everybody. Oh, there's a Vince and a Sinafora. Viz. Oh, cool. We already burned through all this time. Great. Episode 6, which was, I thought, perfect,

with Mr. our DM for, who was in that matching, he sang on the radio. Oh, yeah, Jackson. Jackson. Jackson, Lansing. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, buddy.

But this was his brink. And this was what I thought was perfect. And it says, I have seen them sing in tune with the monoliths. It was the most beautiful song I ever heard. Dozens have died to the melody. So this one was when they started listing their head back and singing, and that was lovely. And then this is when I started planting the seeds of what would eventually be the end game. And this one was actually the most powerful one that I read,

and it led to what ended up being the lore of the world the most. have seen them and they are us. That was literally it. So when that moment, when they split open one of the collectors and just all the condemned souls, just like screaming outside of it, that was a direct result of this brink. They are us.

That was such an awful moment for me. This is it like Nightmare in Elm Street 4 when Freddie Shirt gets ripped open and all the souls are coming out of his chest? That's what I saw in the worm. That's what I saw too. roast right now. We were on the same wavelength for that. I was like, okay, this is

we do that often. This is, this is flesh wall of condemned souls, let's go. There was Vincersbrink, you six things. Okay, that was Vincersbrink. They are them and they are us. I remember that because he did on the ISS and it was perfect. So I have seen, okay, here's

another one, I have seen them go in the light inside of the monolith. That was a brink that we wrote in there too, which means I had to have probably told them about the light in the initial description because otherwise they wouldn't have had the information to be able to put the light inside of the model which again that led to Robert's whole thing

you know Robert being able to go in and out and I have seen them tear at each other and pull themselves apart trying to get to me in a high tree and I think that was laid enough in the game in which there wasn't enough humans and the little ones were eating the big ones and I think that was

episode 9, though. The little ones are eating the big ones. Oh, wait, did I say that? Oh, you did. I did. When the big ones were eating the little ones. I'm always for the underdog. No, it's all good.

Even if they are malicious. And ripping me apart. And world ending monsters. They were eating each other. So, yeah, that was totally, thank you. Thank you, Vince, for claiming what was rightfully yours. And then the last one, which I confirmed because I wrote it down, was And this was again perfect for how the end game came into it.

Because the last four from TJ, I have seen them hurting like livestock survivors into the monoliths. Because it's time to make a choice. It's time to make a choice. And they had to choose. You had to choose. And it was so cool to get to see that in the last episode, the procession form and pushing us towards them. And I was like, listen, it's one thing to have an idea for something in a show, but to get to, see it, one happening real time

and two to get to play through it, like that was awesome. In that moment I was so happy I hadn't died earlier. I was like, I want to see that happen. Yeah. No, it was... I got to see it. You got to see some of it. My head got to see

a little bit. It was a, it was certainly like one of those, like each one of these brinks absolutely informed the story and they're all beautiful gifts because honestly, I need help sometimes coming up with this shit. And really, sometimes it just takes something as simple as they are us to really have it go like oh okay okay okay

okay here we go here we go that's a beautiful that's that's the beauty of RPGs but this one in particular where it is it is like a big you know improv exercise it's a big improvisation right yeah well that's what Jake said when he you know when he got off set like Jake and I texted that whole night for like hours after our game was over because it was we were so moved by everything that happened at the table. He and I gained a level of friendship at that table. We're pretty close, but what occurred

between the three of us at the end of that game was like, that was beautiful. That will stay with me for the rest of my life. No, those are why role-playing games are so amazing because those are stories that you take with you forever. You know, there will be things from all the games that I have played that I will always

remember forever and they'll be one of their, like even back to you know, we're alive in Saga's As Sundry, there's just going to be those moments where I'm never going to forget them. And they're just as good, if not better than all of the stories

that we tell about our glory years growing up or, you know, memories that we form. I think we've done something stunning with each different show. And, you know, it's such a great collaborative effort. But let's do a lightning round since we're about to run out of room. 10 minutes.

10 minutes right now. I said I'm about to run out of room. I meant time. Yeah, room in time space. Okay, so yes, from it's Pizzou, do you have a favorite episode? I can't. Good sleep is everything.

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Fuel restrictions apply. C-Sight for details. Be particular to an episode, because they're all my children. Yeah, I treat it like I treat the Lord of the Rings Chilogy. It's all one movie. About everything. Yeah.

I mean, there was just so. Sorry, that's the lamest answer that we're sticking to. Ah, Aki. D. What was your favorite fulfilled moment? And why was it Jackson's song The Forge? Because it was beautiful. Yeah.

I think it was the first moment that really got fulfilled, if I remember. Well, no, you know what? Jasmine had an excellent one. Oh, Jasmine did have an excellent one. You fucking sped that up. You were like, I don't even care if it's on top. It was beautiful.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, we did. I incited that because the, oh, I mean, again, another great story like that. That Whitney Jasmine arc was so powerful and so interesting. I was like, you keep this going. And that was one of my first. favorite like in my mind every sorry I know we're on lightning around but every single one of these final scenes is just like a portrait in my head and that portrait of Whitney's character

with the eyes and the little tiny you know little well shoot slash vent and her just there knowing that her friend is friends are right below good good times great oh that was just so okay um toughest death you had to narrate in all 10 all 10 episodes I think we got that one that was Did we? One of your favorite one was Vince's. Okay. The toughest death that I had to narrate in all 10 episodes was probably the first one. I think Christina's was definitely the hardest, which is kind of why I think why it was the only one in which I really gave to her.

Yeah. And said, hey, I can do this or you can do it. And it was brutal. Because you like, you never, like, when she said how she went out, I was like, oh, well, kudos to you. Also, congratulations to that fabulous role player. She just became a little. Congratulations. I know.

Like two days ago. Yeah, and we had, and I was, I made it real clear with her when we were starting into it. I'm like, well, you, you know, girl, you're gonna sit down for like four hours. Like, that's, I mean, you cool with that? Because pregnancy. She's great. Super trooper. Super trooper.

Yep. What else we got? What drew you into the game in the first place? Oh yeah, into the game, just in 10 candles in the first place? Yeah. I'd probably just say 10 candles is because it's, uh, as with many things it was a highly celebrated game that wasn't getting a whole lot of attention horror is a tough boat and it's really nice when you have a rulebook that you can read in half an hour to go through it and it is definitely a bit so you know I know when it was brought up to us I hadn't heard of it and I was like what fuck yeah okay I'm down like let's do this oh yeah horror I mean it's horror which is great yeah but yeah the comments concept itself was like, fuck you.

Yeah. That's good. Especially when you have a narrative, a narrative tool that puts you on a timer. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. The narrative in 10.

The illurophile. A lyrophile. Can we go up on that a little bit? Allurophile. What narrative in 10 candles is driven by the players, as much as a storyteller, what twist did your players bring the overall series that surprised you the most? They all, I was always surprised by the dynamic

between each one of the players when it would be in the like, oh, we need help, so we're gonna give Trues to help us right now. And you know, we're feeling pretty good, let's hurt us a little bit. Yeah, you know? So I was always- They kept it pretty balanced. They kept it pretty balanced, but the ones that surprised me

the most is definitely just one of those, like, it's the ones where they were willing to go in deep and just lean into it, lean into the tragedy. Yeah, I love what it's fun like playing the game. Like, like, we're just, You've played twice now and every time I try to hurt myself. Like, first truth I get, I'm injuring myself. Right, yes, you did.

You were making fun all the time. You were not, you were nined. Not pulling punches on yourself. Jake Bennett, go away. You're monster. So what truth broke each of you the most? Oh, funny, you ask that, because I just told Jake Bennett to go away. The fucking cat, man.

Was it specifically? It's not pregnant? Yes, because in that moment, he took my hope as well as Alckwood's hope. And he did things, unspeakable things to it before he ripped it up. Because mine, you know, when Alquan had talked about the cat, I was like, oh my God, that's like the perfect opportunity because I'm not a people person. I love my cat, miss my cat. I don't create these relationships. When I find a meaningful relationship, I will find hope.

And I was like, it's going to be the cat. It's totally going to be the cat. And I fucking wanted to die. Two Good and Co coffee creamers are made with farm fresh cream, real milk, and contain three grams of sugar per serving. That's 40% less than the five grams per serving and leading traditional coffee creamers for a rich, delicious experience. Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold, bold, or frothy,

Two good coffee creamers make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers. Real goodness in every sip. Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle. The war is over and both sides lost. Kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered like bones in the dust. Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight. But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins.

This is old school adventuring at its most cruel. Your torch ticks down in real time, and when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job. This is a brutal rules-light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the decisions that the characters make. This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s, and man, it is so good to be back.

Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the Shadow Dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on YouTube.com slash the glass canon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark. Look, we all know there are a lot of celebrity interview podcasts out there, but there's only one happy, sad, confused. I'm Josh Harrowitzin. Yeah, I'm the host of the show, so I'm a little biased,

but truly happy, say, confused is the place for nerdy and intimate conversations with all your favorite actors and filmmakers. from Andrew Garfield and Scarlett Johansson to Christopher Nolan and Quentin Tarantino for over 10 years and over 700 episodes. Happy, Say I Confused, has broken movie and TV news every single week. That's because I ask all the questions I want to know, and more importantly, you want to know. Casting what-ifs, backstage stories, acting pet peeves, and much more. So whether you're into superheroes, prestige TV, or just the coolest actors and directors alive,

you're going to learn something in every episode. Listen to Happy Say I Confused on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. I was never so happy. I wanted to die. Listen, it was beautiful for the story, but for me, I wanted to die. That intent, that desire to want that comfort was so transparent. Oh, I couldn't hide it. No offense.

but it was wonderful taking that away from you. Oh, it was such delicious story. But I think we need to start wrapping up a bit. Yes. So real quick, I'm TjR Hotel. You can find me at TjR Hotel across the internet. Denise, where can we find you?

Denise Pantoha across the internet. If you can't spell my last name, I'm sorry. Ivan, please take us out. Yes, my name is Ivan Van Norman. You can find me at the Hydra underscore Lord. I'm sorry, Hydra underscore Lord, on all the the Twitters, I'm starting to regularly stream on Twitch. That's fantastic.

Yeah, so I'm actually going to, on Thursdays from 12 until 4, I'm going to try to consistently stream on Twitch. I have a lineup of some interesting concepts to explore. So if you'd like to go check that up. One of them, a spoiler alert, one of them is a productivity stream in which I will make a separate Skype account. And for people who want to get started on the project but have never had the time, will, or effort to get into it, we're going to take that seed and we're going to shove it

to the ground and we're gonna pour some water on it and watch it sprout. So my life, you help you with my life. Yeah, so I'll be sciving you soon then. So just get those projects started. Like, just we'll make a little productivity stream, do some world building, it'll be great. And Ivan, I think you have one more surprise for us

before we go. Oh, yes, one more thing. For all the people who have sent me out on Twitter, who have constantly said, hey, what's going on with We're Alive? What are we doing with We're Alive? What's happening with We're Alive? What's happening with We're Live? It's coming on Twitch.

Season one on Twitch, it's taking over 10 candles time slot on Monday evenings. First episode next Monday. That fast shit. We're alive. It's on the way. Alguins and chat. Oh, what's up. Alcoons in chat.

Awesome. And Vince is in there as well too. Enjali Bimani. Josh Peters door. Josh Peters Dor. I mean, so many people. Lots of great people. And just to give you a little taste.

If you're not sure what we're. alive is why don't you go ahead and check this out thank you so much for watching thanks much for supporting we love you thank you guys next time thank you good night the day is June 18th 2026 West St. Louis is rubble-filled hell hole this is probably as good as it's gonna get we have quite an adventure ahead of us so let's get right down to it shall we I'm about a lot more All right, I start taking out bandit dude. And let's just drive this thing. Okay.

You're coming with us, but you won't survive. It's not our respect you need, it's our trust. Are you sure you want to go all the way out to Kansas City with just five people? Bullets are... Explain to me his grizzly demise. I see him pop his head up and I go... Right underneath, who's the gun. It's probably going to go down here.

go downhill from here.