Critical Role & Sagas of Sundry - Past, Present, and Future with Mark Hulmes, Jasmine Bhullar, and David Nett | Roundtable

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

This week, David Nett, Mark Hulmes, and Jasmine Bhullar sit down to chat about the past, the present, and the future! Grab a drink and join them at the Roundtable! Immersive storytelling has the power to transport you to a whole new world, but becoming a storyteller requires time, patience, and dedication. We've gathered some of the most notable storytellers to hear their perspectives on their craft, their passion, and how they build worlds. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I didn't realize the gravity of really role-playing on Twitch until I played a true neutral character that I feel like a lot of people really disliked and it made them dislike me. Jasmine Boulard, the game master behind the 80s-inspired RPG, The Out Crowd. The underlying fundamental realities are the same. Have fun.

It's not just your story, it's everybody's story. To me, that's really beautiful. David Nett is a writer, actor, and lifelong Dungeons and Dragons game master. Oh, you gave me the field over here. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.

The three sides of the moral spectrum. Alignment. So how did you guys get into it? Because like I find that, for when I'm meeting, like, new DMs and stuff like that, like that's always the fun thing of like, how did you get into the game and things like that. When I was 12, I was at the Science Fair

in Linnat, North Dakota. And I had a broken arm. And I was showing off my science fair exhibit. And the guy next to me had just moved to town. And we got talking and he invited me to come play in his Dungeons and Dragons game. And I'd heard about it, but I was in rural North Dakota, a very religious area.

Sort of a taboo thing at that time. This is 84-ish, I think. And I went and played his game on just the moment of creating that character. I was immediately hooked before we even played. It was everything that my nerdy, sort of introverted little self had ever really wanted. That's adorable.

That's kind of great. Especially with a little broken arm. Yeah, like the best. It's like such a perfect little story. The kids on Stranger Things, that was me and my friends. That's the time. Oh, you really fit into that, the 80s cliche. Oh gosh, yeah.

So many, so much nostalgia in that show for me watching those kids play. Yeah. I lived for a really long time in India, and so I did a lot of my growing up there. I had lived for like the first part of my childhood in America and then I moved to India. And it felt like I was Indian,

but I was so different from the other kids, it was hard to connect. And I'd always been kind of a shut-in. So I read a lot of books, and I was trying to learn Hindi and Punjabi at the same time. Oh, wow. And so my dad would buy me comics, like Hindi comics.

And they were really, really bad, like Indian comics. I'm sorry, but they were. Like, we had like a superhero named Doga, who's like the Punisher, but he wears a dog mask. It was bad. But it helped me pick up the languages, and that's kind of where my journey

with nerdiness started. And then when I moved back here, I still felt like I didn't fit in. And I started to hang out, like, on the internet and stuff. My first role play experience, and this is a pen and paper, my first role play experience, which then got me into D&D was actually, like, a college program called Model United Nations. Oh, shit, yeah, of course. This one was like a mega game. You simulate, yeah.

You compete for stakes, you know? A meaningful larp, like a... Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I remember really getting into it and being like... like, this weekend, I am Ireland and I will only speak as the Republic of Ireland and you always speak in the third person. So I always say, the Republic of Ireland does not support that decoration. I love it.

The Republic of Ireland would like to abstain from voting. Like, it's like, and that was my first time role play. And I was pretty good at it. And one of the people in that program was like, have you ever played D&D? That's awesome. We saw you inhabit Ireland. You really, you took on the persona of violins, you made it your own. Do you want to play some D&D?

Yeah, yeah, and I was like, and that's how it started. I started with third edition, and I was like kind of you, like I was a super geeky kid, but I didn't really have a lot of friends, like geeky friends at the time. Like I was the kid that, you know, after school I had to go and stay with my grandparents, so I would get like a dust, a garbage can lid and a stick and I'd be in the garden, like, you know, doing my own stories. And then I was quite lucky in that around high school, I had a bunch of geeky and we were in the local comic store and they had the third edition start a box and we all kind of pitched in our allowance money, we bought it.

So amazing. Took it home and like I was the designated GM because I put the most money in and they were just like, you put the most money and you keep it, you learn the rules. And yeah, you learn the rules, so that's, that's your reward? Like my reward is I get to run the game for you guys, but I'm glad I did because I kind of, I just poured into it and I remember like, I gave them the set up for the story and they were like, okay, well what do we do? And I said, what do you guys do?

want to do, yeah. And they were just like, bhr. The fundamental sort of jumping off points for the kids that I was playing with were the classics, right? So we read Tolkien and maybe Dune, and we had watched Dragon Slayer and Excalibur. Croll? Well, Crull was, yeah, later. No, Crull was there too. But those were our touch points. We had a very sort of a narrow set of touch points.

It was the typical sword and sorcery fantasy stuff. What was the background of stuff when you guys started versus now? So for me, my preferred stuff are massively influenced by pulp adventure and action. Like my two callbacks that I love, like the games I really enjoy to either play or GM, is ones that I can kind of trace align back to things like Indiana Jones, The Mummy, the shadow, like these kind of pulp noir adventures, because that's the stuff I kind of grew up with and like that was the type of books that I was reading at the time and everything. What I find now, and being a GM for a game that's on the game,

Twitch and people watch and everything else, it's so character-driven. Like, it's not quite soap opera or drama, but they want that Game of Thrones, that Walking Dead, that Netflix weekly, like, what's the next big character, dramatic. They want to ship your characters, they want to- All the ships are like sailing, there's fleets, there's armadas of ships. The characters are really what drives it. It's no longer about the Macuffin. Like I think like in older editions, it was always about like, you know, Black

There's always a world ending kind of situation in the older modules. Yeah, and that was the driving force, whereas now I think it's so much more character. I mean, I don't know how you found it, Jasmine, like. It's weird. When I started getting into RPGs,

they were really rebelling hard against the classic fantasy you were talking about. I mean, I would go to the comic book story and you see a plethora of systems and games more than you can count, and there's like 40 of them that are gonna be steampunk every single time. One thing, and I'm not trying to throw shade at anybody, but one thing that turned me off when I would like flip through these books is like,

they had such intense worlds to get into where the universe is like, wow, you really, like, you know, over, I don't know how to describe it, but when you just overdo it a little bit. OTT, yeah. And so they just, I would read it and I'm like, okay, I can barely get into this. How am I supposed to get my players into this? The concept of this world is so insane, you know? It takes me an hour.

just to explain to them the setting, especially when you talk about an audience, because I stream on Twitch, how do I explain this to my audience? And, oh, they've got to be able to get it so quickly, because, you know, they tune in and they want to know it, and like, if it's going to take you four hours to expect, they're gone. Like, they're... A max hit points, you know, we have a story that goes along with, you know, the workouts, but it's all... It's 100% railroad because you can't interact with the story, right? What I'm fascinated with you guys is that when I've game masters, I've done so since I was, I guess when I first started doing it was 14.

So a very long time ago. But I never had to worry about an audience following my story. I only had to worry about my players and were they engaged and if I introduced an element that they didn't grok or they didn't lock onto, that element could go away and it didn't matter. I'm interested in balancing, like that's a new idea, the idea of balancing your players and an audience. I mean, my honest answer is I don't try and balance it.

Like I always set my game out that it is a bunch of friends playing a D.E. indie game, but there's cameras in the room. And like, I try and keep that. So it's like, if the audience doesn't follow something or if they latch onto a character, it's like, that's fine, but it's the players around the table that is my focus. And I write the game and I create the world for them. And then my hope, which I like to think has worked,

is that the audience will follow it as well as they do and they will enjoy it as well as they do. But if you have to start really changing things for the audience, I think that that's when you're moving into a different territory and that's not the kind of game I want to run. You know, I don't want to ever have the thing of like, and now audience, you can vote on the next monster that they will face. I don't want to do that.

Like, I want it to be a D&D game that I kind of build for my friends and then hopefully other people can enjoy. Because also I think that that shows the people at home, like, this is what you can be playing. Like, and you can have these adventures. The way I run my show on Hyper is probably not the way I would run it if we were just to play D&D right now. because it's like watching a Netflix show a little bit. Like, I have to tell a story in those three hours.

You know, you have to have a little bit of everything. And you don't want to devote, like, two and a half hours to a giant boss battle, because who wants to, in my opinion, combat some of the most boring stuff that happens in RPGs. But you also want something interesting to happen, so you have to get that formula down perfectly. I think another big thing is making sure that each player is having their moment or having, like,

if you feel like, oh, I feel like this person had a whole episode Like maybe we should make sure some of these other players get their episode so that the audience has a chance to click with them. And for me, I didn't realize like the gravity of really role-playing on Twitch until I played like a true neutral character that I feel like a lot of people really disliked and it made them dislike me. Oh wow. Yeah, because, you know.

You get bleed. And that is tough too. Yeah, just people criticizing like the character for the decisions. And it's like, keep in mind that you know, Keep in mind, that's not me making that decision. I'm playing my character. My character is flawed. And it's like, yeah, exactly.

He's going to make bad decisions. And as a good role player, I have to play true to that. So do you think about it when you're crafting your show, do you think about it in terms of episodes then? I never think of the entire campaign in terms of episodes, but like I will try to create a nice end point. Because I never want to end it at a part where I feel like it's a cliffhanger or it's an awkward ending because that just pisses off.

your audience and it pisses off your players because they're just like really if that's true like I am in such trouble because I am so bad for cliffhangers like I am really bad like I'm a big cliffhanger junkie like I'm so bad for it like it is the worst but I kind of there is a sick part of me which like when I do it and it's like a really good one like you know but they open the tomb and then I go like and we'll find out what's in there next week like there they'll be like oh I try and see what I do in But I do it so that each player does have like an arc dedicated to their backstory and their character. Just because I want to make sure that everybody around that table feels like they've had their moment to be the hero.

And the arcs, that might be two sessions. That could be six sessions. It depends on what the backstory is and everything else. But in terms of episodes, it just tends to be however much we can squeeze in. Do you guys feel like running the shows, like sure running the shows has changed the way that you play when you're not on camera? camera or do you play anymore on camera I don't know if you have time to I do yeah I enjoy I enjoy playing off camera I I don't want to say it's more formulaic when you're on when you're doing it with a show but I definitely change things around and part of it is like there's situations will occur when you're just hanging out with your friends you know and

playing a game that like if people are stuck on something you kind of just let it go and And when it's happening on camera, if my players are stuck on something, something will happen to move it along. Whereas if I'm off camera, I don't really care. If they're stuck and we're just hanging out, drinking beers, playing D&D, they can be stuck for a while. But when people are watching, it's like, you can't be here for more than 15 minutes. After that, it's just, it's getting old.

Or if they can't figure out how to beat a boss, even though they should because you gave them all the right hints and they should have asked the right questions to the right PCs. And part of it is like after looking at Twitch chat logs and stuff like that after the episode, you see the audience like, how did they not use fire? In all the caps. All the backseating, like, how do they not know? I even think about the case of like backseat players. That's crazy. Are you kidding?

Backseat players. Yeah, there's a lot of backseeding and they're just like, how does he not know? Do your players then read the world? Well, I was going to say, do you let them? No, we do not, I do not allow my players to read chat. I think mine do, but not like, I tell them. not like I tell them not to. I'm like, don't read chat.

Like, even I like, I struggled to go back and read stuff because I used to do it when we started and I was like, I miss that or I miss that. Now I'm kind of like, you know what, if I miss stuff, it's okay, like it's fine. Well, I feel like when you read chat, this syndrome will pop up, especially if you're working with a lot of other Twitch talent,

where they wanna play to the audience. And it's like, no, play. Where they wanna, yeah, they wanna like, there's a little showmanship, or they wanna be quipy and they wanna like curry favor with the audience. And so they don't stay as true to their characters. pop out of character to do something that they know the audience will like.

Because you do take it really personally when you're sitting here and you're reading chat and everyone's just like, I love this person, but I hate this true neutral character because they're boring or they're evil. Yeah, yeah. I really worry about technologies like Roll 20 and what they do to the game because the joy of the game for me is the freedom of the game. And if I have to spend a bunch of time beforehand building maps and putting pogs on maps and trying to prep for the session,

and then the characters go around that, which is one of my favorite things, and I'm left on my heels, it seems like that technology almost limits me. And I wonder if you guys have had, if experienced that technology and used it, because I haven't doubted that fear. I have. I will say that after doing both. Greetings, adventurers. Spring has sprung here in Los Angeles, and that means it's a brief period where it's only 75 degrees instead of 95 degrees. I'll take it.

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eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 premium and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at Windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th, terms at aka.m.m.S. slash college PC. There are pluses and minuses, and one of the big pluses to doing it in person

is you feed off of each other so much. And eye contact is so big in role play. So what would need to happen for a remote system to work like that for you. Because I feel the same way, but again, I'm super old. Yeah, well, I don't know. I don't know how you feel. To me, it does feel really static because you're looking at a webcam.

You're not looking at into somebody's eyes and making that connection. Small things, like even like rolling the dice physically. Like, that's a cool feeling. Yeah. And clicking a button just never feels as equal. Whenever it's important, I have my... Oh, very... I like, you've brought me.

I have mine with me just in case, whenever anything important is happening. This is from when I was 12. This is my first, not my first 220, but one of my oldest, yeah. Oh my goodness, that's amazing. You guys were important to me, so I brought that way. Oh, that's amazing, man.

I feel bad now. I feel bad, no. Roll 20 is a fantastic tool for people that just cannot physically get together. What will really change it for me is VR. Like having that headset and being able to go whoop, boop, boop, boop, around the table, and yeah, maybe the DM

can do fancy stuff with miniatures, and you can zoom and all that stuff, but just being able to be immersed around the table and there are my friends and maybe they're dressed up as their characters or whatever, that's cool. Like I think that would be super awesome just to make it a bit more, you know, yeah, engaging. Like I think you're right, like it's just too easy to be distracted and not feel connected to those players. There was like a video floating around the internet of like that table surface where you could put a map on it and you could put your players. Are you excited about the idea of that?

So I was just going to ask like, what is there something that you're really hoping will happen? That for me would be, that would be great. I would love to be able to. Even with the prep work you would have to do as a game master in order to make that work. I think the immersion would be worth it, you know? Yeah, and I think for me, like, if I'm gonna do like that big epic scene anyway,

I have to put that prep in now regardless. I'll print out a map on poster paper, or I'll draw it out, or I'll buy the miniatures and set it all up. To be able to do that on a PC, much faster, like being able to just have pre-done tiles that I can snap together, and then I can put a miniature down,

like fire erupts around it if I click a spell card or something like that. That's amazing. For me, I am so hyped for the stuff that's coming because I look around and I realize like board games are taking off and our pen and paper RPGs are going to be right behind them. And you know, Open Legends huge success on Kickstarter and like people are playing pen and paper and tabletop RPGs and just tabletop games in a way that they're going to be right they weren't before.

There's been this like a renaissance or a resurgence and these really great word games are coming out and people are buying them and that's amazing. I think 10 years ago we probably wouldn't have seen that. How people are playing like pandemic and just like games are so much more accessible, right? And what that's done is it's brought money into the stuff that we love.

And when you bring in money, great things happen because suddenly you're getting products developed for you that weren't there before and it's gonna make your job as a GM. It's gonna make getting creative better and easier, and you're gonna be able to do stuff you weren't able to do before, and that makes me so excited. And on Hyper, we have a biotech show

called Death from Above. They 3D print their mecs. And so when your mex arm gets blown off, they literally like, like, crap. Honestly, 3D printing, so that's one of the technologies that I have found has enhanced my game, because my players and I are fairly old school, but there's a, oh gosh, I've forgotten the name

of the company now that does the 3D printed custom miniatures. Right, I know it's exactly. Hero Force, thank you. This last time that my high school group and I got together, you know, the old Fogies Gaming Club, I 3D printed all their characters, custom characters for all of them and brought them to the game.

And that's, you know, going through, going to a store and hoping, you know, again, when I was starting, and we didn't do a lot of strategic, you know, miniatures play, we were playing 1E and 2E, and it was all what they call theater of the mind now, which makes me kind of vomit, but it was all in our imaginations.

You know, we didn't play a lot with minis, but we had minis of our can. to show marching order and all that stuff. But you go to the game store and you hope that there's something roughly like the character you're playing. Yeah, you just settle with anything that it will kind of look like it. But to be able to go there and to create your character in 3D print, not only the character, but the pose that you want, the attitude that you want, and the

smile or a frown, that's amazing. We're getting all this, like, media that's talking about it and getting the conversation started. And that's inspiring people to get into it as well. And I'm sure there will be some bumps along the world. Whenever something becomes mainstream, it goes through its growing pain. And we'll probably have some crappy stuff produced along the way. We've had a couple of bad D&D movies. I was gonna say, like, I think like, actually, you know what, people kind of, you know, they can appreciate it and they can see that actually you can make some good stuff.

What is the tip that you give to new Dungeon Masters? Like, what is the advice that you guys give coming up when you did, learning to play when you did? Yeah. For me, it's that I feel like often there's like an antagonistic relationship. between the GM and the players, and so often groups have trouble finding a GM. And for me, I'm the opposite. Like, and I always, I encapsulate my GM style

as like the kid from Stranger Things. Like, you know how when they're fighting the demigorgon, he's like, oh, when the demigorgon does? He's not mad that they killed this creature he made. He is excited. That is me. I cheer with the players, I cry with the players, I am with the players, and I want to see them succeed.

And it's my job to tell their story. It's not their job to play out my story. Yeah. I think like my general advice is kind of follows the same thing of like, start small. Start with a town. What makes it interesting? What makes this somewhere that your adventures want to go, that makes the heroes want to explore? You know, what about it makes it unique?

I think the other thing that I recommend to new players that has always been my advice is that they read a lot. I think as a dungeon master, one of the best tools that you have is a whole bunch of story reference. at your fingertips, whether it's reading a lot or watching other movies or whatever, because whatever shit that your players throw out you, whatever crazy thing they decided to do that was not what you expected, if you have a bunch of stories at your disposal, whether it's things that you've written or things that you've read or movies that you've seen or TV shows that you've watched, you just have a, that's your toolbox in a lot of ways. There's a storyteller, that's your toolbox.

And you can throw things at them and pull things out. And it's funny because I get people that say, like, I want to do something like this from this show, but I don't want to just rip it off. It's like, that's okay. Like, you can change a few things here and there, but like, yeah, like, at the end of the day, whether you're a GM or a DM or a TV script, you know, we're world builders. That's what you're doing. And there's a reason that, you know, whether it's Dungeons or whether it's Shadow Run or

or the World of Darkness games, in almost all of those game books, they give you a reference reading list in there. This is what inspired us. This is what can inspire you. There's a reason that shit's there, whether it's video games or books or movies or TV informs the way you understand story. What I love about all that is that, you know, regardless of, you know, we all started at different times playing, regardless of when you started playing, regardless of what your references were that got you playing. The advice

that you guys were just talking about is very similar to the advice that I give coming from, you know, again, 30 years of playing Dungeons and Dragons. The underlying fundamental realities are the same. It's not just your story. It's everybody's story. You know, those things remain the same. And that's, to me, that's really beautiful. And that, I know, it's, it's GAMI of the fields over here. The war is over and both sides lost. Kingdoms were reduced to cinders, an army scattered like bones in the dust. Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world, praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight.

But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins. This is old school adventuring at its most cruel. Your torch ticks down in real time. and when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job. This is a brutal rules-light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the decisions that the characters make. This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s. And man, it is so good to be back. Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the Shadow Dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on YouTube.com slash the Glass Cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day.

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