Critical Role & Sagas of Sundry - Quests N’ Answers | Inside Sagas of Sundry: Goblin Mode Ep. 13

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Welcome to Quests N’ Answers, the companion series to Sagas of Sundry: Goblin Mode! ***Massive spoilers ahead for episode 13***   Join Dan Casey and special guest Ross Bryant (MST3K, Improvised Shakespeare Company, Dropout), as well as cast members Amy Vorpahl, Jason Nguyen, and Danielle Radford as they break down what went into this harrowing battle of self-discovery in Goblin Mode episode 13, “Inner Demons.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Now, if you haven't seen it yet, spoilers ahead, so go watch it or listen to it now. But in the meantime, let me introduce my amazing cast. I'm Danielle Radford. Amy Vorpal. Jason Wynne. And Ross Bryan. And now, spoilers, folks,

because we're gonna get into maybe my favorite combat encounter of the entire campaign so far, which is saying something, because it's a dozy. When you have to fight yourself? Yes, yes, yeah. How about that?

Yeah, that was awesome, true. Your guests of fiendish people trying to play a trick on you came true. They were lying the whole time. I can't believe. I always knew I was lying to my son. Yes, yes. We need therapy, is what it is.

I don't need therapy. I have D&D. Yeah, there it is. So I want to talk about this encounter because I loved the setting. It just felt like a horror movie where we're just in this library full of our own memories, facing our shadow selves. And then we also have this disincorporated ghost tippy coming in. We have the ghost of a racist gelatinous cube.

There we have the ghost of statues past. That's right. Yes. Many things to, many tools in your tool belt. By all rights, should have been able to take these ghosts out. But instead, they beat you to a crisp. I want to talk a little bit about the attacks that we had, which was like enslave undead, which was a new thing.

It worked. That was so interesting. Because when I was Ministora, I also can possess people. And it was like, well, yeah, let's have a battle of the possessions. We're in the ethereal realm. what did that do for you flavor-wise? It seemed like you loved it as Dan. I loved it 100%.

Normally in like games, like in tabletop RPGs, it can be frustrating when your turn or your agency gets stymied, but here it felt so narratively satisfying to have the evil aspect of my character take control because that was his goal. That was Phil's goal.

I'm like, well yeah, that's great. That's exciting to me. What am I going to do now that I'm a bone puppet? And the answer was... Stab everything. Stab everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Miss horribly.

I was rolling crazy. Yeah, whoa. Oh, yeah. What was up with your eyes? Low was high high for you. Just the exquisite joys of crits and the horrible failures of critical fails. It was ones and 20s across the board. Amazing swings.

I love the choice that you made to first attack, attack busy. Like, get them out of here. And then when it whiffed, you chose for Phil overall to turn the dagger in on himself and I thought that was so ingenious just seeing that I didn't I'm just looking over the sheet it was like enslave on debt wait a minute I know who's on dead but but that was so cool like right up top when suddenly the battlefield we're already in aetheric space right and then the battlefield literally moves to the mind of one of the characters like like wrestling for control

yeah there's not a better way to do it than D20 versus D20 20, I guess. Classic. It's super cool. But it's also so, I don't know, it's very interesting to think of this as one character who's been split into component parts.

And if it is the part of you that wills, that acts and the material stuff that does it, then yeah, the arrogance of the will is like, no, no, you're mine. Yeah. It felt all too natural

of the, of like, what that, what the sort of megalomania of Phil Varell would have wanted. And there's such a conflict there for Fibbs because Phil Varel represents that aspect of himself that he has been searching for because he's woken up in this skeleton body

like five years ago with no sense of his former life, had these flashbacks throughout the campaign and then seeing the embodiment of, yeah, I'm you, here's all of our memories, I can share all of this with you. Then to have that be turned into a betrayal was just such a, I loved that sort of, inner conflict that was raging within.

And it was such a cool twist of it too. When you sort of made a memory bomb to detonate in the psyche. What a sweet man you are to pick up the memory bomb I completely missed and threw it the ground 10 feet in front of you. How could I not? Ross, the player was like,

like, got a good. We got to know what to work. But also, it's like, the innocent, gileless face of Ghost Tippy is like, like, oh, it was just too, and it had been such a wits. No shade, true. Such a whiff. Very big of a whiff.

I think, I think there is a world where he was just like, oh, this guy just dropped that. In a way he did. Yeah. And then just like the fact that it's obviously one of your like core memories, this memory that you love. The first time you ever saw Lila. The love of your life. And it's just irreparably corrupted by God. That was a great moment we shared.

I love that so much. It was amazing. It was also such a hilarious and disturbing image of you becoming slowly more and more engulfed with this ever-largining goo monster. He might be racist, but he's effective. Oh yeah, Maxwell don't play. But he also, I mean, he does have engulf and it was like, but I didn't stat him out. Let's just be honest. honest, I didn't know Maxwell was going to play a little part here. But the gelatinous

cube is like, well, he's just part of a gelatinous cube. So maybe it's less effective, but engulf is engulf. And if he's got a, if he's got ectoplasm to pull from to become more, it makes a little bit, it makes a lot more sense, not to mention ministora also possessing her. And I think, I think I might have said, the only, the only thing I'll say about myself is I think I think I might have said ectoplasm a little too many times in this place. No, not you can. Well, there's another way to say ectoplasm.

Is there another way to say it? It's goo. It's goo. It's goo. People are going to be running to their thesoress. Yeah, more words for goo. It's just the one. Yeah.

I'm both going to miss this plane and be very happy that we're out of this plane. The goo plane. The goo plane. We're being sent to a very dry place. Yes. No slime. The slime, no,

music. It's a macad of silica gel. Well, like, like, it's so funny that like something as silly visually is like fighting in the goo realm is like, it is, like you said,

like one of my favorite encounters because it's felt like fighting a boss fight, but then like, you know, the bosses we fought have been like these beasts or these things that are like hard to, they don't talk back at us like that, right?

Yeah, just kill them. That's all. Yeah, so like it felt to me very cinematic, like the whole encounter, the possessing of Phibs and you getting angry and distorted and pushing down, you know, bookshelves. Ross, your descriptions of Phil Varell's face shifting around his body as he loses his sense of so. It was so good. Really disgusting. Yeah, I feel like any, any D&D that I just ends in some sort of body.

body heart. Well, yeah, no one asked me if I could. Maybe I should. Well, don't put me in the guru if you don't want body heart. That's right. We did that last time. We were safe. Amy, did you, I have a question to ask you.

Do you want us dead? Would you like us to be all dead? Who was talking a big game before we started just like, don't, this will be a pretty easy cause. Literally. Easy. Before we start, you say, whatever you do, don't die. Don't die.

And then we're stacked against two magically very powerful beings. Here's what I think happened. I think that the dice heard you and when they said don't die, they're like, oh, we're die. We won't. We won't. We're good. Yeah.

Because they didn't. They didn't die. I will say the way the way the lore works, if you die, then you go to the abyssal see. That's a whole other plane. You turn into Lemurs, which are like blobs of souls that don't really have a personality. Like that gross person from Fiends United. Nordi.

Nordi. Oh, I'd rather just be able to be in a character. There's a version of this where we do that. I have done it before. It is really basic and weird. And it's like, yeah, like, look, no, I did not want you to die. For so many reasons. I've got so much stuff to pack in here

for the last few episodes that I really want to get to. Sorry, Laura. We're going to go back to this primordial soup and just be... Yeah, exactly. Learn what an arm is. Take my first steps on land. Yeah, that's the adventure.

No, I did not want you to die. And I will give props to Ross because he is here as an expert storyteller. So even notions like where it's like, well, what if I did pick up this thing or what if we do crumble to dust? Like there obviously was some player agency going on for the characters, and I love that.

However, when you did turn into bone piles, you weren't dead, you know? And the people did perceive you as dead. Yeah, you were stymied. I had a second where I was like, oh, like I can still, like I can get up, I can do cure wounds, like I can do other things, but because so much of this encounter was about like,

well, if they die, then we get to go. It was like, I, like, busy. And both Daniel's player and busy his character are like, we'll see how this plays out. Now they think that we're dead. Like, are they going to just go? And then the encounter is like over?

Or is this going to give us like a chance to like get the upper hand because they're waiting for their big reward for having bested us knowing that that's not going to come? I did feel like there was, at one point Ross said like, well, I'll just destroy these bones next because I'm like, okay, that makes sense. Like, if this isn't happening, maybe you have to complete. completely destroy any physical form that's here

to then wipe them from the plane. So it felt like there was, okay, there is a timer at play here. Once he's done with Ghost Tippy, if something doesn't happen, like if that fireball, if you had not been caught in the blaze of the fireball, then I would have had to pop up on-brand.

I think it's so on brand for Phil Varel to be like, I will, I'll transport myself from this mortal coil and, or join a mortal coil. But first, there's an annoying fly that I've just got to swat and it just keeps causing damage. Yeah, I like how one of my favorite things about Dungeons and Dragons is you got your character on the page, but like they sort of reveal themselves

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in order to live again. Like that's insane, hubris. So that you use, I think you hopefully see a little bit of like how much he's gone, gone mad there towards the end. If he's been here for that long, what's another couple minutes, around, like six, around his six seconds? What's another couple seconds to try and swat an annoyance away from you and demonstrate your prowess? That goblin should die. I mean, we already know.

Like, he's, he's asking for it. Well, was I asking for it? Or did my friends feign death and pass the agro onto me? They're like, we outies, sorry. We heard that Tippy had an Eldridge canon. I swear to God, it's useful. I swear it'll work someday. This is a classic D&D moment.

We were laughing of just like this huge buildup of like, yeah, we got like six pages of how it works, and it's ready to rock, and I rolled up three. Yeah, it was sad. It was a sad moment for me. I do love the amount that, busy, sorry, Danielle and Jason, you were negotiating extra things. So could this-

What were they? Oh, let's look into it. What if this was advantage and this could just be advantage? What it could be? All I asked was to move, you know, in D&D you get a move action, bonus action and-action and-action. All right is for the benefits of goo. So I was asking for it.

I just wanted to move a little further away from the blasting man. Yeah, you know, it's a land filled with all of us a firm, We can take it, do whatever we want with it, and what I wanted was to roll in it. Yeah, that was you very much bargaining. To not miss. You know, the stages of dealing with death. Right.

Right. Yeah, we were desperate. Yeah, I actually, I was not tracking your character sheet hit points at all. And when both of you went down, I was like, huh, huh. I wonder how this is going to be like. And Max does 100 points of damage.

Maxwell is now so strong. Luckily one wonderful if misguided cube. Thank God for that cube. Yeah, I'm really happy that he's staying in the ethereal around this. He comes from a different time. He's back from second edition. Yeah. That's right.

And let's not forget a gnarly-ass lightning whip that totally seems. Oh, shoot. That was awesome. I was so glad to finally use the hat of wizardry and just use a cantrip that I don't know. the top of my head. I was really worried I was gonna beef that, that you were gonna make that save.

Oh, it's just gonna fly towards you. I know, very easily could have happened with the way the battle was going. Oh, that was just such a satisfying way for that to end, like as in everything in their life, like, and then their un-life, just them both dying at the same time. And then that moment also kind of like,

so much about this was about leaving the past behind, moving forward, going forward, taking what, you know, taking stock of what you have now and what you can do with it. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. It blew, I mean, it blew my mind. Look, there were two ways, right? Like you get enamored with having a body, right?

Like, because it's made possible. This guy, Gagang, and could do it. You saw him do it for Kaya. And there was a version that I was like, well, what if they want that? And it was so clear from the beginning, it was like, no, the old life, man. And then, yeah, the metaphor of just burning the entire. building down that had your memories and then you you know gallivanting off going we run together we're never going to kill each other that's not us those are not us we are new people

very I'm saying like very few people get to like actually work through their issues by working like having their issues right in front of them and so being able to look it's it's like I've seen this movie we've watched how this plays out if we go down this path so So that's already wasn't our relationship anyway. But now we can extra see, oh, I don't like that third act. We get to build our own act. But I do. I do like a D&D, like therapist in the fantasy world going, okay, you've got a lot of trauma.

It's going to take, you know, a few years for you to, or maybe five, maybe 10 years for you to get through this trauma. Or you could die, get raised as an undead skeleton, learn everything an new, and just like, you know, get rid of that past immediately. Like, that would be the therapist's recommendation. because that is what happened with you too. Never be wrong, fireball. You just have to punch yourself in the face. Stab yourself in the chest. I'm gonna say shout out again to Bone Pile, MVP mechanic.

Yeah, wow. Really cool mechanic. I don't know, I think, I almost, I thought it was perfect. I loved how it turned out, you know, that was the one time I'll be okay with taking fireball's full damage and getting whist away to some other realm. It was, I feel like it kind of had to be, like, fibs or busy who sort of put these creatures back in their place, right?

So, like, attacking with the lightning whip was sort of perfect. Throwing them back in the fire was sort of perfect. Quite literally used the power of friendship from this hat you gave me from your friends. And for the purists who are like, well, why is the hat still there? The infusions last for three days after the artificer dies. Oh, yeah. So it's still there? That is, yeah.

And D&D time is very slow to actually happen. It's over six seconds or ten years. Yes, yes. I want to talk a little bit about the aftermath too. Yes. Yeah. Because when you returned, Tippy was alive. And we had, okay, we had so many romantic sidebars.

One of my favorite things in the world. Roll playing love. You know, gross. You missed it, but there was a lot of love. A lot of love. A lot of healing, too. But Tippy.

Yeah. You boofed it because I felt like... Is boof the verb you want to use here? Booth is something very specific. I know we're in the goo realm, but I simply have to ask this question. It's the boof realm. What's the matter?

I don't get, do you get it? That is Stevie Mixes word? We can not use that word unless you're steved it. Well, in the booth room, you can boof blast, you can... Okay. Anyways, yeah. But you didn't... I whiffed it.

Follow through. Yeah. There you go. It seemed like it would be maybe too perfect or too... Tippy right now, I don't feel believes he deserves this sort of ending. He doesn't feel like a hero. And to be resurrected and get the girl and plan a big old kiss

and feel good about himself, he would have to feel like a hero and he doesn't, right? The truth is he died to save his friends, which worked, but then even in the ghost realm, he died again almost, right? He went to zero, thank God didn't die again. It was like a couple points from another perma death

and then I would be a glob thing, right? But, like, to me, Tippy struggles with his self-worth and the idea of, is he a hero, is he not, or is he even worth mentioning when we talk about heroes? Well, I think it's like a Testament 2 roleplay in Dungeons and Dragons, where it's like, you don't know what you're going to decide. I think there's a version of this where we're all like, well, he's just going to do it, and that's fine. And if we told the story third person to be like, yeah, Tippy and Picara, they like, you know,

smooch a little bit and that's fine. But in the moment, it's like, oh, well, while you're being Tippy and I see the shift, you like be Tippy and you're balancing all of Tippy's thoughts and you're like actually he can't do it in this moment yeah he can't do it he's going to do it he's going to do the most painfully awkward thing on the planet when you're about to kiss somebody and and it's to give a hand shake and that's based on real life yeah I did it once no no uh huh wow yeah it was it was like going it was going to be my first kiss and it was on new year's yeah new year's night when the bell struck midnight yes yes and

And my brother had come to pick me up from my first girlfriend's house. And it was definitely a moment where my brother's laying on the horn. I had to go. And we stood there and she definitely lined it up. She was like, are you forgetting something? And I stared at her right in the eyes. And I went, I'll see you tomorrow. Yes.

Yeah, but I put it there. And I've never stopped thinking about it. And now, you know it is? This was like two years ago? Yeah, well, relax, relax. No, this was when I was like in, I believe, eighth grade. Oh no, that is a deeply relatable story.

More than one. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Completely boofed it with this girl. And I was like, well, that's Pecorah. That's Sippy and Bacora. A little bit of reality, blending into the role for us.

I love that. Art imitates later. Yeah, but we did get a smooch. We did get a smooch. We did. Oh, we got a smooch. Thank God somebody smooch. Thank God somebody did.

Like, who's out there smooching these days? Crandall. Crandall. We had to get a little smoochy sidebar. Well, there's been this thing with like, that they have discovered, this thing with Ronnie and busy and the, I, you know, they've had this very strong afterlife friendship, and then

we've done consensual possession before and discovered that maybe there were like extra feelings there. And it's something that we've like teased every time Ronnie comes around, but we've never really gotten into. And I think for Busy, it was like, look, like, and maybe it might have been the same. Because you know, Bricara's going to

remember that. Whereas it's like if I, I don't know if Ronnie's going to remember it or if Ronnie's not going to remember it, but Busy was going to regret not doing it. And so if nothing else, we can leave it where we have that one time and that one moment

in this time. And if we never get it again, we never get it again. But I think Bizzy felt like she just couldn't leave without having that. Plus, like, it's not to like meta too much, but going back to the first episode with True Love's Kiss and having that moment

of us like trying to kiss the statue and seeing what happened. and lots of places can expose you to identity theft. Oh, no. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app.

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Now, Busy ain't got no lips, so I don't know. I mean, apparently she's into it. You went at that statue, episode one, pretty hard. It was pretty scrapy. I don't get. It was very scrapy with my bone teeth. Skull kiss. For some people, to text your thing.

Oh, I kiss your school. School of school. Skull on. I will say, though, it felt very fitting in terms of, like, yes, narrative payoff, but also Busy's quest to be cool. It was just the coolest thing she could have done in that moment. Honestly, it's so cool. You then just walking away towards a portal.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely. And then just like, I imagine not looking back. Oh, yeah. Extreme action movie vibes from Busy there. Oh, yeah. Now I'm going to go home and write the fanfic where fibs and, was it Fivlorel?

I cannot say. Philverell make out. Yeah. I feel like that's the alternate universe. Tipi and Philverall? No, no, fibs and Philverl. Oh, fives and filver. Oh, 100%.

Yeah, yeah. There was some extreme fanboying going on between the two of you. Is that, I guess that's a question. Like, is there a world where they, like, what would have happened if they're just like, cool, yeah, no, we're down with this. You can take our bodies, like if they were like, if they wanted to be. Okay, so I did have, yeah, I did have a plan for that, which was like, which was basically, so you know how we got Ross in here to play a weird, bizaro version of fibs, that Dan was then going to have to play

the bizarro version of Bizarro Ross playing Bizarro. Fantastic. Wow. Cool. Can we re-take that from the top? We're going to go again. And they're going to kiss this time. Yes.

Yes. This is how it happened. Yeah. So yeah, Ross, you have more power over this episode than you ever thought you did. What about the vows? I think the vows were a super interesting addition. It's really cool to have that sort of magical caveat.

Like, yeah, you can leave this realm, but if you violate your vow, there is a percentile chance that you might get, like, sucked back here through space and time to this ghost realm. Yeah, I was, I wanted, I think that I like the progression where it was both Tippy and Bizzy's vow felt like very, like personal self-development, like their characters moved along, And for Fibbs, I wanted it to be something that was more, not more plot-oriented, but like,

what everything he's seen of the last couple episodes, he's seen, he's learned so much lore, he's learned so much about the Sundari, about the Scyth of Aurelio, and like seen specifically what Luxier has done to everyone he loves and cares about. And I think that has radicalized him more than anything. Like even, you know, he's putting his own wants and need to side as long as that means he can stop these people from presumably harming more of the people he cares about. Yeah. Yeah, this whole ethereal realm situation is so, it's like hard to get away from metaphor here

because it's like, things are just kind of weird. Like, it's a fun realm because it does, it's like Fay Wild or like abyssal or infernal plane where it's like, well, PACs. Now you have PACs that like kind of transcend magic and rules really. and it's kind of just, it's more emotion-driven or, you know, like, true love's kiss will wake. It's like, well, how do I uproll for true love's kiss? Like, you don't, it's just like this feeling, like, does that work?

And so to have this vow does feel like something that's really just another tool of torture. Like, well. Like, I'm going to make a choice, and then I'm going to hear you rolling a D-100 behind the screen. And you're like, ah, shit. Phim's disappears into a world of goo. Oh, no. He's left a pile of goo and robes behind. Anyway, bye, Dan.

Bye. Also, I have to say, I do love that, it turns out, busy is a late in life lesbian. Well, let's go. Oh, yeah. I mean, we've got polycules. Yeah, polycules, yeah. I think it was established pretty early on that there were some queer vibes in this game. What about your about, Tippi?

I think, Tippi more than ever just wants to, I think, the underneath it all is to be useful, right? And, like, actually do the thing. Sorry, I can't add. Nope, it's right there in that song. Yes. Okay, we can't use it. The Sierra Plains is truly a tragic kingdom. Yeah, yeah.

No doubt. No doubt. No doubt. No doubt. No doubt. No doubt. No doubt. No, Tippy just wants to protect his friends, but I think the little add on there is he wants to laugh with his friends, not at them, which is not just protect them physically, but it seems like protect them emotionally as well. Sounds like it, yeah. And it might, you know, newsflash, this might be the only. friends he's ever made, other than actual goo-goo dolls.

So... Yeah, well, it does seem like that Maxwell friendship was even toxic. He's a toxic goo, and I made some goo dolls in the goo realm, but that's it. I don't think he's really had friends. Does Tippy not want the world to see him because he doesn't think they'd understand? No. All right. That is B-A-N-A-N-A-S.

That about does it for us on Saga's a sudden request and answers. Thank you again to Ross for joining us for these past... for these past-comables. Thank you very much. Yes, thank you. Thank you out there for joining us for this adventure so far. There's gonna be even more to come

on a brand new episode of Goblin Mode coming your way on Geek and Sundry and wherever fine podcasts are served. Thank you again and we'll see you next time. Bye bye. No doubt. One doubt. Iris.

Iris. The war is over and both sides lost. Kingdoms were reduced to cinders, an army scattered like both. and the dust. Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world, praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight, but in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins. This is old school adventuring and its most cruel. Your torch ticks down in real time, and when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job. This is a brutal rules-light nightmare with a story that emerges

organically based on the decisions that the characters make. This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s, and man, it is so good to be back. Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the Shadow Dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on YouTube.com slash the Glass Cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day. See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark. Look, we all know there are a lot of celebrity interview podcasts out there, but there's only one happy, sad, confused. I'm Josh Harrowitzin. Yeah, I'm the host of the show, so I'm a little biased, but truly Happy Say I Confused is the place for nerdy and intimate conversations with all your

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Oh, please, not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood. Could we get something a little bit lighter? Some lighter music here. Are you a fan of true crime TV shows? And what about Unsolved Mysteries? The show that jumped started all of our love of true crime. I'm Ellen Marsh. And I'm Joey Taranto. And we host I Think Not, a true crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories

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