Critical Role - Exandria Unlimited: Calamity Wrap Up

Episode Date: July 19, 2022

Join the entire cast of Exandria Unlimited: Calamity as they wrap up and reminisce about the making of the show. Twitch subscribers gain instant access to VODs of our shows like Critical Role, Exandria Unlimited, and Critter Hug. But don't worry: Twitch broadcasts are usually uploaded to YouTube a few days after airing live, with audio-only podcast versions of select shows on Spotify, iTunes, & Google Play following a week after the initial air date. Twitch subscribers also gain access to our official custom emote set and subscriber badges and the ability to post links in Twitch chat!

Greetings, everyone! This is Travis Willingham, and welcome to Exandria Unlimited on the Critical Role Podcast Network. Exandria Unlimited airs Thursday at 7pm Pacific on Twitch and YouTube. If you would like to watch the video on demand, it is available immediately for Twitch channel subscribers and is uploaded to YouTube on Mondays at noon. Exandria Unlimited is, of course, also available in podcast form on Thursdays, a week after the original broadcast, right here on the Critical Role Podcast Network. Now, let's get this adventure going.

Well, hello, and welcome to the official wrap-up of Exandria Unlimited Calamity. That's right. We'll be exploring all of the luscious lore surrounding the Ring of Brass, the Fall of Avalir, and even everyone's favorite Aeorian reporter, Bolo. Don't like her.

MVP. Don't like her. So many opinions. This will be a round-ish table. There's a rectangle one here. Discussion with fan questions peppered throughout. So sit back, relax, and enjoy our reflections on the apocalypse we brought about,

but also maybe made just a little less worse, maybe. And so with that in mind, I think first we should maybe just do a little quick round of introductions. I mean. There's no intro song that plays now or something? Make one now. Go. Is there a title sequence?

And title sequence, go. Oh, we're all gonna die. Die. It was so fast. On the teleprompter, I saw the luscious ring of ass. Ooh. Oh, that would be gooduscious ring of ass. Ooh! Oh, that would be good. I got real confused.

Oh, man. That should have been our name. Yeah. The ring of ass. Well, now that we're back from that amazing title scene. Yeah, I mean, I'm assuming most people know who we are if they watch 20 hours of us, but I guess, you know, Luis, maybe let's just go around and introduce everybody. I'm Marisha Ray.

I played Patia. Hi, Marisha. Patia Porco. Hi! Hi, everybody. Hello, Luis. I'm Luis Carrazzo. I played Xerxes. He led us.

Yeah! First night. First night? First night, first merch. I'm not sure what Cameron would come to. Hi, I'm Sam Riegel. I was the voice of the Herald's Tome, Loquatius Seeley. I'm also a talented actor.

Wow. And a fun fact now. Oh, we're adding fun facts. On the third instance, we added a new category of thing to say. Complimenting yourself. Yes, yes, yes. Sure.

Ooh. Hey, gang, I'm Brennan Lee Mulligan. I was to say. Complimenting yourself. Yes, yes, yes. Sure. Ooh. Hey, gang, I'm Brennan Lee Mulligan. I was everybody else. And fun fact. A fun fact, and a fun fact, camera back. And a fun fact about me is that I am drinking a nice cup of joe. Right now.

That was fun. I don't know, it was fun. Yeah. It was a fact. It was a fact. It was a fact. It was a fact. It's also kind of a constant for you, I feel like.

Ooh! Yeah. I'm for creative fun, guys. Are we all fucking done talking? Get focused, get focused. Can we get focused? Yeah, let's go. Oh, okay.

There's a dance? Yeah. What's happening? Oh my god, yes! Yeah! Hi, I'm Lew Wilson. And for the past 20-plus hours, I played Nidus Okiro, Guildmaster of the Golden Scythe. Oh my goodness. And a fun fact about me.

I've never had a piece of sashimi. You've never had a pizza sashimi. You've never had a pizza sashimi? I've never had a pizza sashimi. Pizza sashimi? Yes, and I'm assuming you all have eaten pizza sashimi? Yes. I personally have never had pizza sashimi. So pizza sashimi is raw dough with slices of tomato,

uncooked cheese, and uncured ham. It's a classic. They serve it a lot in Barcelona. It's real. Hey, it's real. Nope, it's not real. Hey, Google it. Google it. Back row.

Are we going to me? Hi, hello, hi. That's not a real food, right? Okay, I'm Travis Willingham. I played Saret Agrumton. I survived. Cerritos Groupon. Cerritos Groupon! Yes!

Cerritos House, better known as. I died. If you Google Saret, you'll find my real name. Fun fact, I wore a black t-shirt tonight in an effort not to get food on myself when I ate dinner. Yay! Aw, yay! Challenge the fates in one. Yep, nailed it. Proud of you.

Sweet. Hi. I'm here. Hey, I'm Aabria Iyengar. I played Lairin, Cora Marseille, Hierophant Adora, Architect Arcade. Fun fact about me, I don't think I've ever won a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors ever in my life.

Wait, wait, right now. You got to go hard. Ready to go. Fuck. I'm nervous. On shoot? Throw on three. No, no one throws on three. On three?

That's crazy. We're going to throw on four. Okay. Rock, Paper, Scissors, shoot. Rock, Paper, Scissors, shoot. Rock, Paper, Scissors, shoot. Oh! Oh, scissors, shoot. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Oh! Wow!

What a show, guys. Yeah, you know what? I think we all know the scene. I love you. We won't get any better. That's the highlight of tonight. I love you. Kids, if you can dream it, you can do it.

I'm actually sweating. Oh my god. Nobody wants to. Well, you guys, let's just jump into some of this hot goss. We're just asking questions. There's no format, right? Not really. Okay.

But I also am the one with the eye of B in my ear. Okay. And I have a drive to move it forward. Okay. Yeah. Because I have Margarita's waiting for me at, okay. Yeah. We won't let that happen. Because I have Margarita's waiting for me at the end of this. Sure.

All right, then kick us off. So, everybody, knowing that this was the Calamity, did it change how you normally build your characters? Hell yeah, go for it. Oh yeah, oh man. I normally don't care about optimized play, but Brandon said we were probably gonna die, so I decided fuck you, absolutely not.

And I worked the hardest I've ever worked to build a very cool character that could survive as long as possible. You min-maxed the fuck out of there. Oh yeah, it was very fun when I finally saw everyone's characters in the campaign and I saw the HP differential

between our two wizards and I went, I've done a good job here. Yes, yes, good. That's tough feet, man. Yeah, tough is dope. With the arcane ward, you more than double patient, right? Yes. I had 175 functional HP. That's insane. Functional? Yeah. If I ever

use the arcane ward on myself. Wow. Got it. Yeah. Plus that little workaround to rebuild the arcane ward with an eldr yeah plus that little like workaround to rebuild the arcane ward with an eldritch uh adept feat anyway it's the nerdiest i've ever gotten about a build and it was very fun and good did you like research that did you like google like how to break wizards yeah yes like lots of people talk about it all the time and then i sat down with my friend trevor who also is like very good at D&D, and I was like, okay, here's what I'm working with so far.

Help me optimize this. And we worked for like four hours. We built a little monster. Yeah. That's sick. When we were building out the characters, you sort of said, Brennan, Brennan Lee Mulligan, GM of EXU Calamity.

He loves coffee. You said we could just have, like, was there a limit to how many items we could have? You were just like, now I know why you said this, but you were like, yeah, just pick a bunch of magical items. And that scared me. That frightened me. It made me feel like I was cheating.

So I only picked, like, two very, very weak items. I think I picked a Wand of Smiles. You picked a Wand of Smiles? And a plus one Ring of Protection. And I felt guilty doing that, but then I looked around at y'all. You! You! Everybody had all this shit.

You had a strength of 56. Yeah! You were stacking, you were all this shit. You had a strength of 56? Yeah. You were all stacking shit. I didn't have any. I felt guilty doing it. But now I know why. You were going to take it away, everything that you gave us.

Don't trust Brandon Gifts. The moment that Luis dropped in our Slack, though, and was like, can I take a Holy Avenger? I was like, well, he asked first, so now I feel like it's paved the way, free reign. Yes, yes, yes. Well, there's an element of verisimilitude to that, right? Like, these people would, imagine being like,

yes, the secret movers and shakers of Avalir. Can I borrow $20? Because if not, and like, no, these people would be fucking loaded. They're at the height of a magical fucking civilization. They would be strapped with gear. So it was actually not only a clever, it was not just me pulling the parenting trick

of someone's like, I'm running away. And you're like, good, run away. Run away. And then you're like, mm-mm-mm. That was not a reverse psychology thing to get you guys to not pick magical items. It was truly from a place're like, mm-mm-mm. That was not a reverse psychology thing to get you guys to not pick magical items. It was truly from a place of like, when I saw Luis go ham on the magic items,

I was like, yes! Because it's just realistic. This is a civilization that's like, we don't need an army, we just need one guy with a belt of Storm Giant strength. Storm Giant strength. That's why 29 strength. Storm Giant strength.

And when you see Zerx is fighting, you're like, yeah, believable. Like, that would cover it. Yeah, absolutely. So anybody else want to talk about how they built their characters? Me? Yeah.

I think the build I went with, I wasn't so Calamity infused. I think I did really want to show out. I think being build I went with wasn't so Calamity-infused. I think I did really wanna show out. I think just being on Critical Role, I was like, well, I can't show up and be like, I'm a bard. I was like, I just couldn't. Sam does that every time he's a bard.

I just couldn't hack it and just show up as a, no, but I was like, I wanna do, because what are you, you just gonna show up and just show up as a bard. No, but I was like, I want to do, you know, because what are you, you're just going to show up and just be a bard, you know, and just be like, what, bardic inspiration for you? I mean, come on. Are you kidding? I love it because you were both bards

and both multiclass. That's true. I multiclassed as Warlock because, Brandon, you said that would be a good idea. No, I think I came into it, I was like, I've done a bard, I got to do something other than a bard, but it's also level 14, I don't want to learn a brand new thing,

I don't want to learn sorcerer or wizard, like that's complicated, so I'll do what I know, I'll be bard, and you were like, well, you could flavor it a little with something else, and I think you gave me a couple options and warlock sounded okay. And gave us a really awesome connection. It did.

Story-wise, not only for the game contained within itself, but also very timely with Ashley's character in C3, the connection to the Seelie court. The Seelie court. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that was a well-researched connection that I definitely spent a lot of time researching. Oh, really?

And talking to Ashley about. Or maybe it was Brennan saying, hey, who's your warlock patron? And me going to the Critical Role Wiki and just looking up fey creature, fey characters in Critical Role lore and seeing the word Seelie and being like, great, done.

So you were a bard warlock and you were like a bard. I was a bard sorcerer. Bard sorcerer. Yeah. Levels of sorcerer, 10 levels of bard. Cause I really wanted the, like splitting spellcasting classes meant that I couldn't cast above a fifth level. But I had those, or I didn't have any spells above fifth level, but I had those spell slots,

so I used Magical Secrets to get some sicker shit. Yes. What did you get? That was the dragon spell, the Summon Dragon Spirit that turned into Shaq and the- Kona cold. The Kona cold I used on one time at the very end because we never took a rest of any kind.

Yeah. No. And so. I should have seen that coming. All the GMs out there, fuck a rest, all right? They don't need them. They don't need them. There's two GMs in this room. Go fight yourself.

Wait, I have a question for the multiclass. This is the first time I've ever multiclassed. It was really fun. Really? Yeah, I got access to all sorts of other cool stuff. I also used magical secrets to get some cool things. It was great. It was fun. What, this is also something interesting when I think about multiclass characters.

What class do you think your character started at, at first level? Ooh, I, I, I, I picked sorcerer fourth. I like,

I was like, Oh, Nidus is a, is a, is a magical person who like didn't really tap into that side. And so didn't grow much more, like didn't just kind of think about himself as being magical and work with that. He instead used what little magic he had and kind of navigated it through the lifestyle he lived. So I went

starting four levels of Sorcerer, finishing 10 levels of Bard. I think similarly, Loquatius started as a warlock for, I think it was only three levels of warlock, and then 11 levels of bard when he found his calling, found his true path and what could bring him fame and the adoration of many. Aw. Not me, Mitch was busy. Nope.

Hey, quick, Marisha, before I forget. What was Patace's... Oh, yeah. School? School of magic. Enchantment. There we go. It was enchantment.

Yeah, she was a full-on... Wiped memories. Pure, all-the-way enchantment wizard. So it didn't really... Because the enchantment wizard's perks and abilities is that you can split your enchantment spells and do multiple targets on single enchantment spells, but it just didn't really

become super relevant with what we were doing. By the time we were fighting, I wasn't going to be like, well, hang on, let's talk. So it just didn't really become super relevant. But my thing with Brennan, like the way that I just broke the class and just made her powerful, because I wanted to have her be super knowledge-based

and have this orb that she had where she just stored everything and being the leader of the library i was basically like can i just take like all the spells i know there's a limit can i just add like 10 more spells so i just have a lot and you were like yeah you like theoretically you could just pull from you were like you could just google it in the middle yeah You're not going to take a nap. Go ahead. Yeah, fine. Exactly. Sure.

Pretty much. There's a weird, this is a bizarre tangent, but literally to what Travis is saying about like, yeah, sure, go for it. There was that attitude of like, because I think GMs and DMs can be stingy with stuff that they don't actually need to be stingy with. You know what I mean?

Like your character is the keeper of scrolls for an entire city. You would have an infinite spell book. You would have all the spells, every spell there's ever been. It would be bizarre for you not to. And I think that you need to be generous with that stuff. There was a kid at my old summer camp

who was a young adventurer who was obsessed with elves. He's like an eight year old boy. And he was like, in the game, can I be an elf? I want to be an elf, whoa-ya. And he was like, in the game, can I be an elf? I want to be an elf warrior. And I was like, so cute. And he came up to me and he kept asking like, can I have a Wazer gun that only elves can use? And I was like, well, that might not.

And then he came up to me and was like, can I have the power to walk on snow like Wegolas? And there's that instinct you get, there's an instinct you get, there's an instinct you get where you want to say no to requests. But then I looked around and I was like, it's the middle of July. And I was like, you can walk on all the snow you want.

Any snow you find, walk all over it. You're a snow walking master. So like, like finding those things that it's like, yeah, that's not game breaking to give someone access to all those spells in that way. Yeah, yeah, it was cool stuff. We need to talk about this bird though.

How did you walk into the Age of Arcanum and be like, absolutely no magic? I know! Well, the character creation part kind of informed all of it because, you know, they were like, come with some ideas, come with some partial builds. I didn't do any of that shit.

I just showed up my lazy ass to the table, and then everybody was spitting fire and had great ideas. And all of a sudden, the shape of what this could look like started to take shape. But I was the last one to go. I just happened to be on the end of the table as we were kind of going counterclockwise. And everybody else had killer magic. You all were super powerful with magic. I was like, well, you've got to have the one guy that's sharp-pointy things only, right?

And then I asked Brennan, I was like, what's a really good investigator? What would be really good at finding out details and trying to keep a check on all this magic run amok? And he was like, Inquisitor Rogue. So the more you build that out, the more you realize you're really good at like being slippery and not getting hit.

But if you, if you do get a hit, it's one really good stank one, which was nice. Yeah. Which was nice. And the one, so one thing I do when I build characters is I start like with an item. I don't know why. Ooh, okay. Like when I, when I built Ford, I start with an item. I don't know why. Ooh, okay. When I built Ford, I...

So what's the store on Magnolia here that has the old wardrobe departments, like drop-off? Oh, it's a wrap. No, it's a wrap. That's right. We went there for Halloween one year, and they had Dracula Untold, had put all these clothes there,

and I found these dope greaves that were like these silver-folded gre bottom on sale or whatever. And that was how I built Ford was either started with like these forearm brazier greaves and then everything came off of that. So when it was Inquisitor Rogue time, I was like, okay, it's got to be an awesome weapon. It can't just be some normal shit. What is there? And there's this maybe seal named Jack Carr that has these hawks, these Winkler R&D hawks that look like the craziest things you've ever seen. And I looked them up, and they're part of this Sayak-Kali fighting system in the Philippines, which led to the Philippine Eagle. And so it just rolled and rolled and rolled and rolled.

And that's just how that started. But the eyes of Avalir and being the sight warden, all that stuff just came together so beautifully. And it was just nice to have one non-magic person that's just trying to make it work. Yeah, absolutely. Good balance. Oh, yay!

It definitely felt like a little of this like who watches the Watchmen type of element of like, let's have this one person who's a little bit more grounded. But I felt, I felt so out of it, which was probably perfect because we were talking about this before we actually started. We probably should have saved it.

But when the first episode started, you guys were just in it. You were talking about your magic shit and you were in the city and I felt like there was a rapport among some of you, and I felt like I had missed a meeting or something, because you guys were just comfy and talking about the city and how it works,

and I was just taking notes furiously and trying not to get lost. And it turns out, there was some of you bitches. I had no idea what you were talking about, and I wasn't scared of you the entire time. Oh my god. I had a completely normal relationship with Sarah. For those who missed our Twitter spaces thing, which is everybody, I wasn't scared of you the entire time. Oh my god! I had a completely normal relationship with Sarah.

For those who missed our Twitter spaces thing, which is everybody, there was a secret meeting. There was a secret meeting, and who was at the secret meeting? We had a few secret meetings, but I think, yeah. And what did you guys discuss? Kind of just how awful we were.

Oh, truly! That was mostly the topic of discussion, which was like, how nasty are you? And it was fun to be like, I had gone in and been like, alright, I'm gonna be a little nasty. And then we were talking and immediately Aabria and Marisha were like, we're nasty. And I was like, oh,

okay, we're nasty! And then we turned out to be really nasty. Nastier than even I planned. So much nastier. But yeah, most of the meeting was agreeing how we were nasty and how long we'd been nasty for and the many ways we had been nasty together. I'm trying to think of the nastiest stuff

that came up in that meeting. Because basically I was like, hey, the replenishment, this is what's supposed to happen. 25% of the city's ether is supposed to go to the Gale of Ashari. The other 75% is supposed to go into the ground and replenish the replenishment, all of Damunas. Is that really happening? Or what's happening to that other,

what's happening to that city's energy? And we were all like, yes, yeah. And just this flurry of stuff. I think there was one point where it was like, I was like, okay, you tell me when I go too far. People extending their lives, maybe there's a magister who hasn't shown up in a little while, maybe

he's maybe a lich and not telling anybody, and that didn't even raise an eyebrow. Yeah. You were all like, that's fine. That's fine. Yeah, like, all good. So it was very, but it was very Yeah. You were all like, that's fine. A good beginning is fine. Keep thinking. That's fine, yeah, like all good. So it was very, but it was very, the whole network of like someone like intercepting with the Septarian

and like, and the whole idea behind Patia of someone who had found a job like a Senate parliamentarian. Yeah. I found this job and been like, oh, people think this is not important. It's about to be incredibly important. And I'm gonna flip this on its head,

interfacing with the entire wealth of the city and someone who saw the vision for what Avalir could be and was like, yeah, no amount of, if you have a cause, no amount of backroom dealing is ever gonna make you question what that cause is. And then the entire technological delay, right? The whole point of the secret project of like, we're going to take the city.

This is how we beat Aeor. This is how we win the kind of Arcanum space race of like, okay, you guys hate the gods. Other people, we look down on them. Ascension, we're going to become an interplanar city. We're going to become a city that trades with every other realm outside of Exandria. Ambitions.

Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that. I think it was great and it worked out super well. It was super gonna. It was super good. Yeah, theoretically it worked. But it's very funny to hear everyone talk about how the secrets were, because you guys,

because this meeting has, of course, was like very fun and schemey and great. And I was also like, because also I didn't want to have that, I said it in the Twitter spaces thing, but I didn't want it to be like Christmas where it's like everyone gets the same amount of presents. Where it's like, you know what I mean? Where it's like, where there's sort of like,

no, there's some people in this brass ring that are up to an asymmetrical amount of shady shit. And that's realistic, and that's going to create fun dynamics, which lo and behold, it fucking did. But it's very funny to hear about the meeting, because while the meeting was happening, I also was aware of the other secrets that were coming up.

So it's like, you guys are having a meeting, and you're like, we're nasty. And then I'm emailing with Luis every day, and he's like, yeah, my character's not doing good. And he really thinks about betrayer gods like every day. That's very fun. So you guys are like, we're corrupt city officials.

And this guy's like, it could all burn. Maybe it burns today, tomorrow. Who knows when it burns? Delightful. Yeah. But thatful. Yeah. But that feels like you were just on such another level of like, you saw through it all, which made sense. It's like a different level of bullshit.

I mean, so, jeez. It's weird to try to have an objective take on the character that you had been sitting in for so long, for four sessions. But I know that I wanted to play a redemption paladin right away. I thought maybe a cleric, but then I was like, nah, man, I want to play a redemption paladin to the extreme. And I wanted to just challenge myself in a way, too, to just really commit to that. And our exchanges were just getting to what makes, what runs, me offering and getting some sounding board stuff on what runs Xerxes. And I wanted to make a parallel between what he was

experiencing as the First Knight and what maybe his idea of the Betrayer Gods were. Like, the First Knight being in this tower and a really lonely experience that he never really asked for but was kind of put on him. So in a way, he was in his own sort of isolation. And so I wanted to create something that would make him connect to the experiences of the Betrayer Gods, and then really crazy, extreme redemption Paladin. And I don't know, I mean, I guess he had secrets for sure, but he didn't have longstanding secrets.

The dream happened the day of. Did you ever tell us about it, but there were two moments. Oath of Deflection Paladin. Oath of Deflection Paladin. Never answered a question. Dropped a whole zone of truth and was like, and let me not tell you about the whole zone of truth. That motherfucker.

The two moments that I was like, I think I'm going to lay it all out on the table was in the second session, why I was looking for Nydas. Because that was my oldest friend, I think I'm going to lay it all out on the table, was in the second session, why I was looking for Nydas. Because that was my oldest friend, and if I had found you, I would have told you. Where was I? You were chasing your thing, deal.

When you walked out in the second session, you had been in the bathroom with the cracked mirror. And then you came out, but that's when Akami Rowe got murdered. Because I could see in your eyes that you wanted to spill the beans, and I was like, You stopped it? We're not like this.

Oh! No, that was the second time. The first time was right after we spoke to Pervon. To Pervon. Pervon. Yes. And then I wanted to, instead of going back to meeting everybody, I wanted to go find you!

And then I couldn't find you! Yeah. And then the second time was the Zone of Truth, but then you said no. And I was like, okay, if you're- Don't put this on me. Don't. Don't you dare act like I said no.

No, I was like, okay. But it's because I only turned on you because- This feels like therapy now, for some reason. Yeah. The turnout. I only turned on you! I never would have turned on you. No, no, I'm tired of this. No, I'm tired of this.

Are you hearing what he's saying? I'm trying my best. All right, you know what, fine. I am, you know what? Okay, you know what? I am receiving this information. I am receiving the idea that because I scolded you, which I felt terrible about,

in the Zone of Truth moment that you did not reveal. But to be fair, that was seconds after you, like other people had been like, I don't want to do the Zone of Truth. And you had been like, what are you hiding? And I had to be like, okay, bro. It was so cool. I loved it so much because it was,

I love it when there's a scene, an exchange between you and another person at the table, where they completely set you off course and into another direction because they've done a thing that changes you. And I was going to dig my heels in, but then I was like, I don't know. It really affected me to have the guy

that's known me the longest call me out. And I was like, okay, it was fucking cool. It was so good. Well, for people to know too, like in the emails that I had with Luis, it was just, and this is my first time playing with you. And we had coffee before the game and it was just like, I was like, oh, this guy feels about storytelling

all the ways I feel about storytelling. Because you at the table got totally lost in the character. People watching you could be like, is Luis gone? It's only Xerxes now. But people need to know in the emails, Luis was fully upset. I was getting emails like, here's what my guy thinks. He could be totally fucking wrong.

Like, everything from Luis was as a collaborator, like, hey man, I am making a man who is strongly convicted. These are his convictions. This is what a paladin is. One of the smartest things I feel like 5e as a system did when it moved paladins from being wisdom casters to charisma casters. You know what I mean?

Because it's like, it made me realize why you don't want to base morality in charisma, right? Because you're like, the only thing the world needs is redemption. And I'm going to do it every day, no matter how many people get hurt or how badly it goes

or how many times the world tries to tell me it's not working. One call that wisdom. Yeah. And having that insight skill ratcheted up can be helpful. Everyone is redeemable. You, are you the right guy for the job, right? Are you this person who can do this thing in this moment? And it felt like there was such a thing with Xerxes

where he took this universal truth about like everyone can be saved and didn't see the bridge to I can save anybody. Yeah. That never occurred to him of like, am I the guy for the job? And I thought that was so beautifully done. Thanks.

I had a conversation with, and I don't think every redemption paladin needs to be played this way, but again, I wanted to play one to the extreme and that was part of the flaw that i had embedded in it and i was like this is an incredibly toxic trait it's the i'm you know i mean it is that i'm i'm i am going to change you and uh but from such a well-meaning heartfelt place and that wasn't the only layer to him because I also wanted to play someone whose flame of hope will never extinguish.

And those two can be synthesized together, but they don't have to coexist. So yeah, I think that's from the get-go. I wasn't really plotting the nastiness, but I was like, let me embed it into this blind spot and have this person who is the most well-meaning, the goodest person in his own heart, and let's give him this flaw and this blind spot.

Yeah, and you're talking about the flaws, because even us sitting around the table, me, Lu, and Aabria, and being like, we're going to get nasty, in the same way of you being very cognizant of Xerxes's flaws. We were kind of in the same mindset with like, we know we're being shady and shifty, but our characters at the end of the day are like,

this is justified, and we are doing it for the good of the city and the greater good, and that was, I mean, speaking of incredibly poignant, incredible life lessons, something that Brendan talked about on that day, which was not to tell your story, but ending in the lesson being

never trust a motherfucker with a cause. And it felt like so much was really rooted in that, about how you really, so much of the flaws of, for Patia especially, and Laren and Nidus, was that being blinded by their ambition. And it's not to say that they weren't evil and I honestly think

trying to play like a evil on the spectrum character is like boring and dumb because there is no like black and white spectrum and to try and play that calculated

manipulative but you're doing it because you know in the end you're going to win and you're going to be right and everyone will fucking love you for it. Trying to be on that level of awareness. I mean, that was some damn mental gymnastics. I mean, these were some pretty deep and complicated characters.

Yeah, because you know, as a player, you know what you're doing is wrong. But you also know, like, my person thinks that it would be right. And so there's a reason why I'm doing bad things to get good results. Yes. And yeah, it was fun to watch you all do that. I think for, I think for my character, my guy was,

Fun secrets. Was almost, yeah, it was almost the opposite. Like, my character, Was perfect in every way. Well,

no, like, he was a liar all the time. Yeah. Like, he was, that was his

surface level was like, yeah, I always lie, I'm always stretching and bending the truth to do what I want. So it's not really a surprise, but like, the weird secret was that, or the flaw, I guess, to Loquatius, which I sort of figured out as we were playing, was not that he was an easy liar or a good liar,

but was that he was lying to himself more than anyone else, because he put on this outward appearance of knowing everything, being super confident, being beloved by all, but all he wanted was very simple things, and he couldn't admit that to himself. He just wanted a lady.

And to be happy and to be truthful. Like, he didn't like what he was doing as the Herald of Avalir either, because it meant bending and stretching the truth and what he wanted to do was just be a gritty indie reporter for the LA Weekly. Oh my god, go Gonzo! Covering rock shows or whatever.

And he needed to admit that to himself. He doesn't really want all of this pizzazz and stuff. He just wants to be a good guy. And I think that was his weird opposite flaw from the rest of you. Yeah. Meanwhile, Cerritos Groupon over here had no flaws. Yes, son!

He was a bad dad! Well, he was so sweet! In the end, right? But that's just catching him on that day. So that day he had a good day as a dad. I think the years prior to that were severely less. What happened to the wife? Do we know what happened to the wife? What'd you do to her? Were you guys divorced?

I just didn't pay any attention to her. The implication that was there was that Reyn and Seret were not doing great. Got it. And were split up? Was she in our sisters? Yeah, it was one of those things where he was obsessed with his work. He had a high station in the city,

but while he had his eyes on everything else, literally everything outside of their house, it wasn't on her and it wasn't on the children. And she was like, I need, this is my idea of her. She was like, I need more. I need more purpose. I'm going to go find that elsewhere. And until there's something for me here,

I won't be here. I'm sure he was like, okay, and just went back to work. Wow. Just totally blind, and all that stuff, and so, you know, I feel like there's always, I think it's always interesting to try and put a little part of yourself into characters, and so as like a new dad,

one of the things I'm always fearful of is just working so much that you'll miss parts of your life. And I definitely pay attention to my wife, but you worry about... We're going to get that in there on tape. Love you, babe. I see you. I love my wife.

Heart emojis. Oh, shit. I take care of my kids. just being like, you know, you don't want to miss any of that stuff. And so I think in that last day, it wasn't about who he'd been. It was like, who can you be if you get one last chance? Right, like the old question,

if you had one day left, what would you do? I think also like with Sarah, there's a part of me that really loved his presence in the group because there were shady people. And if Travis, when you said, you pitched your character on, I want to be Jor-El, I want to be the guy

that gets his kids out of there. And I want to be tapped into Vesp and Chloris. There were a couple of different, everyone made a choice that helped lift the story up. Being like, I'm into the Betrayer Gods. And I was like, well, they're pretty important in this time period, that's very helpful. And for you being like, I'm into the Betrayer Gods, and I was like, well, they're pretty important in this time period, that's very helpful. And for you being like, I'm on Vespin Chloris' trail,

where it was like, I was like, thank God, I was like, great, that's how we tie Vespin into this thing. But what I loved in terms of, if you had also been a shady motherfucker, right, then we have a group of people that are doing shady things. Even Loquatius, his very first scene, he's influencing an election. He's not involved with the Aether scheme,

but this guy is shady as hell. He's incredibly corrupt. And having one person who, if you had also been corrupt, people watching at home would get to go like, oh, that's what happens when everyone's bad. also been corrupt, people watching at home would get to go like, oh, that's what happens when everyone's bad. Not like me, who's good. And you were good and also didn't stop Calamity.

And it was really important, I feel like for me to have one character who's like, yeah, he's not back dealing ether, he's not influencing an election, but his attention's not in the right place. And at the end of days, that matters just as much. And it was interesting because I wasn't privy to the Council of Three.

Travel Troika. I, of course, was experiencing everyone's secrets as they were happening, but whether we were in the Herald's Tome, you were being deceitful and deceptive, and other they were happening, but whether we were in the Herald's Tome, you were being deceitful and deceptive, and other things were happening, I found in that moment not wanting to press my friend on the thing that you were clearly lying about,

which was just so fucking telling also about like, you know, if your job is to do the right thing in the end of days, and even though you know all that extra shit, I still wasn't like pushing you on it yeah yeah so it was it was just interesting it was interesting like that yeah i'll say my favorite part was learning that your wife was also a scientist because again i was like sarah's gonna come for lauren at some point and that was like my one emotional needle like

oh you couldn't figure out with your wife so you're coming after me now and i was just waiting for that it It never came up, which was great, but like, God, what an interesting character to like, you know that there's something big here, and you have to go, I'm going to pay attention to this other thing and hope that that somehow allows me to sidestep what I know is bad in my own front yard.

It's so interesting. Oh, that's heartbreaking. I think he also has a crazy respect for the arcane wielders. So I think also it was, I think on the inside he knew it wasn't something he could mess with unless he was able to get right up close to you and then maybe turn or push the button. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, so good. Kind of jumping off of what we're talking about the dads, we have a question from The Katie M on Twitter. Oh, that's the Katie M. What inspired your decisions to make characters who had children despite knowing that you were telling an apocalyptic story? Did you think the fact that your characters were both dads

affected your gameplay and caused you to make different decisions to the other characters? Because yeah, affected your gameplay, and caused you to make different decisions to the other characters. Because, yeah, I agree with Katie here, a fucking bold move. It hurt our feelings. Holy fuck. It's like, oh my.

And when the kids were cute, it was like incredibly fucked up. Oh, shit! When they were fun and delightful and not even just like blank slate killers. A little. Brutal. But the little. Talented. Talon! Brutal. Put the little Talon tip.

I melted in my fucking chair. Well, I mean, I want to hear what Luis's take was, but for me, usually, it seems like in adventure campaigns, a group of adventurers go to the threat, battle it, and maybe if they're lucky, somebody will hear that they either succeeded or failed, but it's like collateral damage is minimized and it's out there.

This took place in the city. It's in your home and everybody else's home, and of course that means there are families and women and children and everything else, hopes and dreams and everything. So I felt like we had to do that because it makes it far more fucking complicated. Yeah.

Uh, uh, well, I kind of want to ask, cause you were already talking about, you know, you, you between the two of us,

you have your own kid and did that ever, you know, giving your character a child in the calamity didn't make you kind of go, Oh, I mean, you were saying now you related to that. Very much so. So I brought up before that, so I'll back up.

My favorite superhero, it's not very interesting, is Superman since I was a kid, just because he's a guy that can do anything and chooses to do good. And so I loved that growing up, but I've always been fascinated by Jor-El, who was also very influential in Krypton and did the right thing

and got his kid off the exploding planet. But if I had to critique it, I'd be like, if you were so smart, motherfucker, why don't you make a rocket for the three of you? You could all go out instead of just your kid. So part of that was also like, you know, you can be the baddest, most focused warrior, mage, whatever. And when shit hits the fan, there has to be a priority. And if one is shutting down the threat, then number two inherently is your family. So you've put inherently is your family. Yeah. So you've put something above your family.

And as a new dad, I don't know how to do that. Like they don't, you might hear it, but when people say like becoming a parent is literally someone taking your heart out of your chest, taking it out of your body, giving it legs, and it starts walking around for the rest of your life. And all you can do is stare at it and the things that are around it and try and protect it and hope that nothing bad happens to it. And that's the craziest notion. So when I knew that a calamity was coming, I thought it would be interesting as a player, depending on where it went down and what was going to be happening, if he was torn between

the thing that he's been trained to do his entire life and knowing that maybe there is something more important than that in this moment, even though he holds this high position. So that pull was what I wanted. I just didn't know I wanted it like that. Yeah, yeah. It was real dirty. You said something that I'm fascinated by new parents,

because I don't have kids, and I don't know if I want kids, but I mean, I don't think they're gross or anything. They are. They do gross things. No one assumes that until you start to justify it to you. Until I said it, I know. Until it's me.

Sam, when we just had Rhoni, he was like, you're going to get poop on yourself. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay, cool. I know. Sam, when we just had Rhoni, he was like, you're going to get poop on yourself. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay, cool. I have nieces and nephews, and they don't live far away, but that's not the same as having your own kid. But I am fascinated by what you described, which is that your heart is now outside of you

and now out in the world. And whenever friends of mine have their first kid, I kind of interview them and I'm like, so, I mean, is all this stuff true that people say? And then just to get them to talk about, it's just endlessly fascinating to me. And that's one of the reasons why I like to play a parent because it's me playing pretend and trying to access something that I feel like I get a sense of through my imagination, but I can only imagine in real life. There's nothing to compare it to in real life. But I'm endlessly fascinated by that. And so it just made sense for me to have.

And I wanted to have a kid that wasn't mine. I wanted to have, again, to kind of parallel the relationship between the gods i think i had told brendan i said i kind of see the story as like a story of like fathers and sons and and in a sense and so seeing like the betrayers as our fathers and mothers in a way and then i have a kid who's not mine but is mine and i've never explored that, so it was cool, and I'm glad that you said what you said, because next time I play a dad, I'm gonna literally imagine my heart leaping out of my body and then taking form as a kid,

and that's gonna be fucking cool. It's very powerful, and to hear an actual, to hear you say that, you can feel it, so cool. Even the dichotomy, too, that you had a complicated relationship with your son and kind of playing that estranged father role.

And then, because your kid was staying with your family. My family, yeah. And we only really got a little bit of that. Just a kiss, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that know? Yeah. Yeah.

A sous-sant. Yeah, I mean, that was something we talked about. That was something I threw out, I think, because I knew Nidus wouldn't have an actual fan blade. But I liked the idea of, I liked it as a representation of how close we were at one point in our lives. That it's like the three of us were some kind of triumvirate to the point where you were like, yeah, he'll be part of, he's part of our extended family. Yeah, it's cemented, I think, by relationship to you.

And I think that's why it was in the moment so easy to like give in to you, and I think that's why it was, in the moment, so easy to give in to you. And if this were a longer campaign with more of those moments, I can imagine always doing that, because I don't know how you stop feeling indebted to someone who's taking your kid, like how you and your family did. So, yeah. Aabria and I briefly discussed whether we had kids,

and we quickly said, nah. Yeah. Because there's something slightly hilarious about exes who fucking hate each other, and there's something that's not hilarious at all about exes with a kid who hate each other. Yeah, like, oh no, that's terrible. Speaking of that.

We did see that. Yes. We also went and got coffee. Yes, I was going to say! Yeah, there was early talks about that. You did with him? Yeah! Jesus. Early talks about who Elias is. We were just sitting with our thumbs up our ass, I guess. Next time, find a place as fast as you can.

That's the game, baby. We never talked about who Elias' mom was. Nope, never. And there were early talks about like. Wait, like you? Yeah, of Lairin being Elias' mom. And I think I said you decide that because I don't think I would have known. I didn't want to take away from it.

It felt like I was stepping in too much. It would have been pretty cool. That would have been something interesting. I was excited about it. But you know, yeah. It stepped in on like a very powerful thing about like the family that you choose that aren't necessarily

born to you and I think it would have been like this weird step away because then there's like that sense of like claiming of, yeah.

But I remember us talking about it and I was very excited about like, oh man, there's a, I always think about fighting everyone

in the group, I guess. I'm just PVP minded. A Bree almost killed me in something else we did. Yeah, oh that's right. Oh my God. guess. I'm just PvP-minded. Ha! Aabria almost killed me in something else we did. Yeah, oh, that's right! Oh my god, well, I'm just an asshole, so I'm gonna stop telling that story. That's fine.

Never mind. Aabria's just coming to collect heads. I am, I'm here to just ring bells. Yeah, the idea that if we ever got into it and talked about Elias potentially being orphaned, they'd be like, no, he still has his mother, and make that the big reveal. Ugh. But he never came to that.

Oh boy. Just thinking about, I love the gestalt space that was rendered, even by the stuff you guys didn't talk about in your character's backstory, thinking about Xerxes and it's like, okay, so this is a guy who came aboard the city while his husband, an eldritch Knight, was First Knight, so we could study his weird paladin oracle stuff

that seemed to be unique. His husband died, and then the backstory that didn't come out on camera, but the city put a lot of pressure on Xerxes to become First Knight because there wasn't a great candidate after Evandrin was gone. So him leaving Elias and Cath Moir

was something that there was a lot of political pressure on him to do, of people being like, if it's not you, it's going to be fucking Kevin. You know what I mean? And like, you know, like, so we can't be- Do you want to doom Avalir to Kevin? No. And so this guy, it's just like,

hey, you know this grief-stricken, completely alone knight up in the tower who keeps talking about dreams of betrayer gods? Should anyone check in on him? Nah, he's probably fine. His kid's a continent away. He's so strong. Drop your belt on him, he'll work it out.

So strong. I wanna ask you what it was like for you to play our kids. I don't know, he'll work it out. So strong. I want to ask you what it was like for you to play our kids. I don't know, I'm just like, yeah. Love it. Well, because there's a convenience to orphans, which is why from fairy tales and fantasy memorial, just convenient, right?

I have no attachments, so an adventure makes more sense. When does Luke leave Tatooine? When his aunt and uncle are dead, right? Like, spoilers for an idea. Sorry! But you know what I mean? And I think there's something to the idea of, there's something, but in a thing that's all about stakes

and loss, I think it's really necessary. And I love doing any familiar relationships, siblings, parents, children, because I think that there are people, you know, people are like gems, right? They have facets to them, and some of them only get exposed within certain relationships.

So you need certain things to see certain sides of people. And again, I feel like even in just the blush of everything around that, even people that did try to avoid those, or did not try to avoid, but like Patia, people that were distant, but like Patia and her grandfather

and Nidus and his brother and things that never get said. But by the fourth episode, I'm like, Edilis is Nydas' older brother and he kind of never did make it to Avalir. And how does Nydas feel about that? The fact that he, his older brother got married and became sort of the mayor of Cathmoira and you unmarried are like, no, I did become the dragon.

And all that stuff just becomes implication in the background. I just loved it. I think all that family stuff makes it so rich. Actually, I feel like we've been away from questions for a second. Lou. Nidus was a pirate who became a dude to eat. So natural. So natural.

Yeah, it... So natural. So natural. Yeah, it's very natural. I'm so good at intros and outros and segues. Nidus was a pirate who became the key to Avalir's resources. Does he feel as though his dreams were realized even though the city fell? Great question, Brennan. Really good. No, I don't think so.

I base the character a lot in terms of his thought process on a mix of John Hammond from Jurassic Park in the book and in the movie. Because in the book, he's a real monster. And in the movie, he's a real sweetie. And I do think kind of in the movie he's a real sweetie and I think I do think kind of in like the Jurassic Park sense it's like the goal is not just to make is not just to make the city great the great the goal is to make this it and the dangerous part is that the goal is to make the city great and then show it to the world and prove it every day for the rest of our lives and and and have

everyone come up and kneel before me and say great job you really made something to the world and prove it every day for the rest of our lives and have everyone come up and kneel before me and say, great job, you really made something amazing. Like, just bringing dinosaurs back, I could give a shit. Just making Avalir great and making it this hub of commerce where everyone can live and where

there is no strife and hodmadods do everything you want and you only experience weather once a week, fuck that. We need to be, we need to go to the celestial plane. That is when things will matter and that's when people will care. So I don't, I don't think his dream is realized,

but I think in the moment where you killed us. I just want to say something. Matt Mercer made up the calamity. Matt Mercer made it up. And I'm over here bad copping it, okay? So you gave birth to us and Matt killed us. Yeah.

In a way. I'm in the delivery room. Why specifically me when you killed us with the tree? Which is you. The tree didn't have to be that wild. The dream tree could have just split open, you know, like it seemed like it was gonna. And then in the fourth episode

for the first second, aka two hours, you murdered us ruthlessly. That was, that's you. That's you. All I'm saying is everyone loves it when Matt says two-thirds of Exandria's you. That's you. All I'm saying is everyone loves it when Matt says two-thirds of Exandria is gone. But when it actually starts to happen and we're making saving throws for an hour of game time,

all of a sudden people got some shit to say. That's all I'm saying. But in that moment, I do think that's Nidus' moment of being like, okay, the ambition is too much, and right now there is something to lose, which is just what Avalir is, which is a community of people doing great things, and that must be preserved.

I actually early wanted to ask, because what you're talking about is the change, the realization that you had, and the kind of arc that you went on. When we're talking about the like the change, the realization that you had and, and the kind of arc that you went on the, the, when we're talking about the secrets and all the, you know, this nasty stuff,

but the moment, you know, a lot, I think a lot of the characters realize and, and had a moment of like really looking at, looking at themselves in the mirror. And that's kind of where it started for you. Yeah.

I think that's, I think it's, uh, it's not until Laren is trying to blow up the tree that this fucked up prophecy I got is told me might be important. That's the first time it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. If these two things are, if this is it, if this is us enacting this thing that this person has told me is the inevitable end of Avalir, then actually we need to stop.

Now, I know I've been shoveling coal into this engine, but can we please hit the brakes? Can we please in this moment hit the brakes? And the answer is we can't. You told a prodigy that you had enabled for decades no for the first time and thought that was going to go a different way.

Hey, what's up, dude? I can dream. I know. I can dream. I know that you have the commitment to take a character that's supposed to be bad and make them bad, which is why Nydas' sudden third act shift into the moral core of like,

which it felt so earned. What was that like? Because I feel like you must have surprised yourself. Well, I think I got caught off guard when you were like, I'm going to cast Blight on it. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Like it was that moment where you were like, I, and you were very kind in that you did it very slowly.

You were like, I raised my hand to cast Blight. You don't go, I cast, like. So in that moment, I was like, oh, shit. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, guys, I have to explain this to you that I've kind of been sitting on. And it's kind of, I don't know, I think we might be fucking up real bad.

Like, I know people were rolling inside checks to figure out if I was telling the truth or not, and you could tell I was lying and you didn't ask about it. But now I kind of want to talk about it. And that's, that was, it was, it was a weird thing of being like, all right. But then also quietly knowing in my head

that I'm like, well, if even just me saying it is not enough, and then it came to blows and it was like, well, if even just me saying it is not enough. And then it came to blows and it was like, okay. But it was like the first hitch of you being like, I'm going to kill it was me going, wait, wait, I have to tell everybody this thing and what this means. And then when everyone else didn't back down, when that didn't work, I was like, oh, oh, okay. Well, I have to try and stop this. This is now on me. You gave me this prophecy, and now I'm the only one who can do anything about it.

Without a saving throw, to watch a prophecy actually drive someone to panic, you know what I mean? It happened in real time of the thing. it also was very, I don't know, I just love these characters. I love all of your characters so fucking much. And I love that of the shady, of the trouble, of the trouble Troika.

Who's your favorite character? The trouble Troika. Of the trouble Troika. What I love about it is, is Nydas' story. All of the three of you in your present time are so well matched with each other, but there's a fucking difference because you're both elves and you're from the sky.

And this dude, I feel like there was just something in Nydas of like, yes, I'm supporting it. The laywright, the ether, let's do shady deals. Let's do stuff. And then there's a sudden moment where you hear this prophecy and a kid who had to fight on blood-soaked docks goes, wait guys, it can actually get bad.

Yeah, yeah. Like, I know that you, I know that you, the real world's coming, I'm telling you things can get bad. Like, it felt so, why? It was just such a cool transformation to watch. We're coming from privilege. We're like, bad? Yeah. What is bad?

Bad is when the water heater broke. Talk about this when I'm done with this tree real quick. That blight casting. I felt like I was four seconds behind everything everybody was doing

in terms of all of that stuff. And when you said blight, I was like, wait, no. I'm not here. God! You're gone for all of that. And having blight

was the luckiest guess. I was like, I kind of like this spell. Maybe I'll get to use it. Oh, a bad tree! Oh! Cool! Christmas!

There is, I will say, in the pantheon of pulling the heart through and of Blighting the tree, one of the very nice things that was very sweet about the show puts Seraret's decision to leave up there in that. If you had been there. That would have been a total fight if you were there. You could have stopped a lot of shit from happening.

And you leaving was, I remember you leaving and I was like, we'll get him later. It was like I truly, it's fine. It was, it was bad. it's fine. It was. What's up? Something really bad's going to happen. I'll come back. Come on, guys.

And then to have it be that we're fighting, it's like, oh, shit, he should be. Why am I holding person? Like, so if you had walked in at that moment, you know, with your pizza box and the fire. Full Donald Glover. Well, like, knowing what you knew at the moment and your suspicions of everyone, but especially Mrs. over here, who would you have gone, who would you have stopped? What side would you have taken? Who would those hawks have gone straight into?

I mean, it would have depended on what he walked into, but Patia and Laren were one and two, because I just assumed that Xerxes... That's your one! Yay! One and two meaning the people you love and trust the most? No, that I would try and take down the fastest. Oh, okay.

Amazing! Yeah, and Xerxes would be like three, but I would assume that he, you know, wasn't trying to fucking befriend a betrayer god, but I also knew that Nydas, with all that bard shit that I haven't seen yet, because we hadn't really, like, we hadn't rolled, I didn't know what he, you know,

what was capable of coming out. There was a chance that it was just going to go bad. And what was so interesting was that I made the choice, just on an RP thing, to go after the kids and stretch the story that way. And then as soon as I left, I was like, oh, I'm going to let them fuck each other up first and come in when they're tired.

That's very good, actually. That's way better. Oh my god. We have a fan question, you guys. Yes, yes. Hot off the presses from Andrea or Andrea. It's to Aabria, or Aabria. Technically both correct.

Was Laerryn's urgency to get the astral lay right done before the next apogee solstice only so that she could fix or focus on her relationship with Loquatius before he was gone, question mark? Or was there something she was hoping to do on other planes she was working towards that involved him slash me as well.

Aw, babe. So what were you up to? Sweet. I think the drive to get it done in this one was suddenly realizing her introduction was, hey, this is not only going to be your best shot, but it's even better than you were hoping for to pull this off.

So everyone has over-indexed for like how focused she was in that moment. But like, if you get the best news that like you're gonna, you have your best chance of success at pulling off something that you've worked for more than a decade on, like, of course, that's the thing you care about the most.

She wanted it done and taken care of because yeah, in that sort of like type A personality on the flow chart, she was like, get the lay right done, fix your marriage or at least repair that relationship so that it can be as good as it can be again because she knew that she still had feelings for him. But the lay right came up.

But the lay right came first because it needed to get done. It was a time bounded thing. I think everything passed the planes. Like there was no like, I want to send him home to the Feywild that was just like her like the little dream in the back of her mind was once this is done

we can go visit your home plane together and that would be a lovely a lot of our characters like once we get this we can focus on the real stuff exactly just this one last this one last thing I can rest after this there's nothing more fun.

That's how it is in real life, too. Uh-huh. Knowing you're playing a game that's going to stop at the calamity, there's nothing more tragic than telegraphing future plans of all the things you'll get to. Speaking of plans,

another question was how much of the Laren-Loquacious relationship was planned before the game? Oh, okay. Let's talk about those. I got our text thread. You do? I got our text thread up where Aria says. There's some scrolling.

There's some scrolling. It's a long thread. She says, Lorwyn is her first name. Oh, I changed it, that's right. Haven't decided on a surname. Thoughts on yours? Are you just going to read this? Uh-huh.

I love this. Thoughts on yours? Are you just going to read it? Thoughts on yours is a funny double meaning there. I haven't thought of a surname. Could I have yours? I said, my current name is Loquacious Hambrick Zucker. Hambrick Zucker?

You robbed us. You absolutely robbed us. I could have had Loquius Hambrick Zucker. Like a ham brick? Now it will never happen. Wow, that's a different game. Hambrick Zucker? I hate him.

Yeah! I don't want to be married to have been married to that. Thank you. We made some better choices. That's just C words. Like, just Hambrick Zucker is a name with like a charisma of 6 and a constitution of 22.

Hambrick Zucker is definitely creating his own cryptocurrency. Think of a brick. And how durable that would be. My very next text on the thread is, maybe I should simplify my stupid-ass last name to something much more fey, since that's where I'm from.

How about Loquatius Seelie, implying that I'm from the Seelie court, like Elmenor? Wasn't that something you did with Fearne on EXU? That's very kind. I was like, oh, he was. Hey. Hey. Okay.

Much better. But to answer the original question, how much of the relationship was planned, we figured out a timeline. Yeah. How many years we were married, how many years we were not married. We figured out loosely why we had split.

And this one here was like, hey, is it okay if I was the reason? Yeah. Look, we had already met in our little nasty gal meeting and I was like, I want to be the bad one. Yeah, I'll do it, I did it. What'd I do? And I was like, well, no, can't we both be at fault?

Yeah, so we were. Look, I'm just mad because I came away from our text conversation going, what a fun bit this will be. And then you proceeded to fucking knock me out with an emotion every 20 minutes. Whenever I covered my full face with my hands, it was because I was fully actually crying.

Like, what is he doing? These are feelings. That was a discovery. Honestly, it was planned as a bit. Like, we were just going to be sniping at each other. I think we talked, I talked to Brendan at least, about how, hey, it would be really great if over the course of these four episodes,

he could discover things about himself that are, he could be more honest with himself about what he's become, and maybe he doesn't like what he's become, and maybe that would affect us in some way, and maybe he doesn't like what he's become. Maybe that would affect us in some way, and maybe by the end of it, we could reconcile or something. But that's not up to you to decide, obviously. No! Honestly, the parts of the story that I probably had my hands off the most for were your

guys' scenes. There was a whole scene in, I think at the beginning of episode three or something like that, where it's just you guys in the Meridian Labyrinth while the fight is raging. And it's just you guys having a heart-to-heart. And the scene in episode one, when we're doing all the intro vignettes, where you guys and you alone had a vignette where you met. And I could, but I remembered,

because we had talked about it and you had said this vision of Loquatius that his life changed in a bad way with the Elena Tuvaris, with the covering up of that secret. Because before then, you had actually been an honest reporter. And that was the beginning of you being like, okay, I'm going to acquiesce and the Herald's Tome is going to kind of become propaganda.

And it is going to be kind of power pushing. But it was also clearly bad for Loquatius, right? And in that first scene where you were talking to Laren, where you go like, you're like, you have the fun sniping. It's super fun. The jokes are flying. And then you're like,

let's try to not hate each other for a month. And it was so real. And I was like, they're locked in. I was like, I don't know where we end up by the end of episode four. The fucking speech, the speech in episode four. That's so true. Talk about that ding-dang speech.

First of all, I don't know if I even want to know, but whether that quaver in your voice when you say, and to Laerryn, the architect's arcane, most beautiful woman in the world. It makes me almost cry every time I've watched it, of the hundred times I've watched it. It makes me almost want to cry. It's so profoundly beautiful.

And whether that was honest emotion or performance, it's equally magical either way. It was definitely honest. I am not a very good actor, as opposed to what I said earlier, but yeah, I fell in love with her during the game. It was amazing. It's beautiful.

Okay, let me brag on Sam for a minute because we had a conversation a really long time ago. Like, I don't know, five, six years. We were still in campaign one. And we were talking about how we role play. And I was kind of, I don't even remember how it came about in conversation, but was kind of, I don't even remember how it came about in conversation, but was kind of asking, like, how are you accessing things and you call back to things

and, like, where you are influenced from your character's decisions. And you said, like, I just always try to remember what came before. Like, everything in these formative rungs of a ladder. So I just always try to think about what has already happened and that's what, which sounds really basic when you say it out there, but I think it is something that people, it's easy to forget, especially when you're in the moment.

And that's always kind of stuck with me. And I think that speech that you wrote was like a masterclass in just being 100% informed from everything that had already happened. And, because it's easy to make shit up and you could have made something up about like, the Avalir, where it's going and whatever. But everything was referenced from something that had previously happened.

And yeah, it was just incredible. On a legal pad. Yeah. That only you really could read. Done in the shadows in like a matter of minutes while you were standing next to all of us being dumbasses on a break. Yeah.

I came back with that. Yeah, like I don't use this, I don't say this lightly. From that beautiful moment of Laren where you're like, oh my god, this is someone who's literally grappling in the moment with the fact that moments ago he made the decision to die.

Made the decision to go down with the ship. Yes. And is speaking about the reason that he chose to do that. And then the moment after that, and remember the Market of Wonders. I just need to say, that is, and I've been lucky enough to see a couple of them in my life,

that is a perfect joke. It is a perfect joke, because to do something that funny that comes at a moment, do you know what I'm saying? This is like a Campbell quote, but he literally says something about comedy. Campbell says something about comedy where he says, funny that comes at a moment. Do you know what I'm saying? This is like a Campbell quote, but he literally says something about comedy.

Campbell says something about comedy where he says, "'Comedy completes the realization that drama begins.'" Right? Where it's like, you know, where there's something where it's like, "'Oh, I have not contradicted the depth of my sorrow. "'I have not contradicted the meaningfulness of my sadness, but I have introduced something profoundly absurd

and wonderfully silly. And I am not uncommitted in the moment of doing it. In the moment of doing it, this is exactly what I would do. And it's hysterical and it's also makes it even more sad. It makes the sad thing even more, just like, and remember the market of wonders. It's so fucking good. I want to say one braggy thing.

Oh my God. Because I was talking to a bunch of friends and we were like, they're also like RPG people and they were like, what's the most, like what's your favorite decision you ever made in a game?

And my answer, and it remains to this day, was when we were in our character gen and you came in, you're like, I kind of want to be divorced who wants to do it? Best decision I ever made

was being like me, me, me, pick me! Because this was the most fun. I had no chill about that. I was like I will lunge for lore. I was like

don't, stop, let me have this. I don't want to fight you but I will. So thank you. Great pair up. It really was so incredible to watch

because I think you guys really hit on what any type of a couple goes through, and especially when you're a third party watching a couple bicker, where you're like, mm, they're both right and they're both wrong. Uh-oh, and this is where. He got her back. Yeah, yeah. And you're just likeoh. And this is where... He got her back. Yeah.

And you're just like, wow. You can see just these sediment layers of damage and trauma enacted on both sides. That was incredible to watch. Now, Marisha, I've always had a question for you. How does

Patia feel about the deal her grandfather struck with the Gowdreshari? I can tell you've been sitting on it for like a long time. You know, it's funny. Me and the boys, we've been talking and we've been wondering. What are Patia's opinions about her grandfather and a family name? Wow, yeah, you know, excellent question, Lou. Oh man, I don't even know where to begin with this.

Ultimately, like super high level, when I started thinking about Patia and I went to Brennan and I was like, I think I want to make her a Kennedy. I want her to be grateful. Just someone who is so deeply

entrenched in the history of Avalir and the political structure of Avalir and I've talked a little bit about this as well that Laura was originally supposed to play so I kind of, she built the very bare structure of what this character was going to be, and she was like, politics!

And I was like, fuck! You want me to fucking do politics? Okay. And especially because a lot of times in D&D or role-playing, kind of like what you're talking about, like the orphan trope, it's easy to go for the scrappy, work-your-way-up-from-nothing, especially when you're going from low level to high level.

But since we were starting at such a high level and entrenched in everything to do with Avalir, it was just kind of this perfect opportunity to build someone from the start who was super high society, you know, incredible lineage in the city. And yeah, and we talked so much. It was like why it was so wild when you were like,

what about her parents in the game? And I was like... It was one of those things, I don't know. Because you're never quite done world building, right? Yeah. There's lots of family relationships that we didn't explore. I don't necessarily know who Laerryn's parents are, right? Yeah, in the city, they died.

Flow charted. Flow charted! Flow charted. Incredible. But with Patia, it was just this thing where in the middle of that episode, you so beautifully bookended it with Happy Replenishment, Grandfather.

And it was so beautiful. And really, there was something so heartbreaking about Patia. Ooh, I got hit with emotion just saying that. I got hit a little bit. Patia, you are all so fucking good at this. And it's not an accident that in the middle of the fight, Patia looks at Laird and says, you're my best friend.

Because Patia's alone. Yes. And it's really fucking sad. And she's really, and it's someone who, and it just became clear in how you were playing Patia that we got to the middle of episode four and I was like, this person was not treated well. And like, yes, incredible wealth, all of this power, but looking at who Amir was,

and by the way, everything I said in the beginning, Amir was an asshole from the jump. From the first scene, what does he say to do? Avalir goes from here to here. It's going to be beneath my eyes, right? I want the city to be underneath me. I'm looking down so the people down there can see my face, right? So that was immediately, I was like, this is not a good guy, right?

Yeah, yeah. And he, when we got to that point in that final episode, I just realized how alone Patia was, how much of herself she had given up to the service of this vision. And now that it was all slipping away from her, and especially as everyone was kind of, like Xerxes had gone to Cathmoira,

Serret had gone to get his kids out, you know, Loquatius and Laren were finding each other. Even, and even Nidus like fucking had Alessander, you know, like there was,

there was this thing with, with Patia where it was just like, who does she have? The statue. Standing in front of the fucking statue.

Alone. And I just looked at it and I was like, the fact that we've never talked about your character's parents' contribution, it sort of just came to me in that moment and we had to communicate it while the cameras were rolling, but I was like, the fact that we've never talked about your character's parents' contribution, it sort of just came to me in that moment and we had to communicate

it while the cameras were rolling, but I was like, your parents are gone. Yeah. And gone from your memory. Because I was like, the most horrifying thing of someone, you know, it's the hammer and nail, right? If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And the idea of your memory erasing everybody,

you've done it to yourself. Or it's happened to you. It's happened. Yeah, what's the likelihood? What's the likelihood? Pretty fucking high. So that moment of just like, your parents failed, and in so failing, in some way or another, your grandfather was like, you're going to succeed where they failed.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, so I have a question. So, like, your grandfather was up to some shit. But very hot. Brennan,

the Gau Drashari. Yes. Like, how? What was it like unraveling that for the first time to all of us and the audience

and everything else? Did you consult with Matt? Yeah, I mean. No, I fucking winged it, dude. I said, this is where the Ashari come from. Of course I consulted with Matt! This is where they come from. I was so worried, I honestly,

I mean, Matt can attest to it. I was blowing up his phone nonstop. I was like, could this be true about some druids? Just truly trying to check in as much as possible. And obviously, the guy's doing the entirety of planning for C3. So I was trying to make it as short and concise as possible. But essentially I was like, okay, for this, I think it started with the primordials.

I was like, the primordials are sealed because, and I, cause I was trying, I was trying to be like, I want there to be apocalyptic stakes here, but we know our betrayer gods are focused on Vasselheim, so they're not rocking up to Avalir. Avalir's not their priority. So how do we make there be some stakes here in this moment? And I was like, oh, there's some primordial seal

under the mountain, and there's another prophecy about da-da-da-da-da. And so there was just a sesh where I was talking to Matt, and I was like, something with these old druids that used to be there in the mountain. And Matt was like, and I think Matt fully pitched all of the stuff surrounding, like, Matt, first of all, the name Gau Drashari

is a Matt Mercer original. Oh, cool. When you said it, I was like, Gau Drashari? Yeah, I was like, Drashari? He pulled it off the dome so fast, it was fucked up. I was like, what about the druids? And he's like, the Gau Drashari. And I a shari? He pulled it off the dome so fast. It was fucked up. I was like, what about the druids? And he's like, the Gau Drashari. And I went, fuck, that was just right there!

We watched it happen! Matt Mercer. There it is! Matt Mercer. Matt Mercer. What the fuck? And then, I had been talking about, it was a perfect marriage, I feel like, because I was coming in with these I feel like, of, because, you know, like, I was coming in with these story beat things, right?

Because for me, of like, especially doing short run seasons, it's like, okay, here's the beats we have to hit. And I was like, and then going to the fucking, you know, the creator of Exandria, this master world builder, and being like, it would be great if Vespin had released the Betrayer Gods from their prison, but there was some other stumbling block

that we can focus on in this story. If there's something from these druids that they put in the city that the wizards kind of don't give a shit about anymore. So you can even hear it in how I'm saying it, of like, here's a fucking fuzzy little thing I need for a story thing to happen. And Mako's like, okay.

And just immediately on the call spins this whole thing about the Goudra Ashari, and the fact that the Primordials, there's an analogy to the elemental gates of the Ashari and the idea of the elemental rifts. like the idea of there's always been this connection to elementalism through the primordials and other stuff like that. And then the Tree of Names being this thing

that was itself crafting a druidic protection over the world was also a Matt Mercer original. I mean, you guys, obviously, we know that both of you are super talented, but the way that you guys did this together is just, it's astounding. I know. It's astounding. I'm doing this to camera,

but also Matt's literally right there. Hi, Matt. Hi. Hi, Matt. It was so cool to, it was also so cool for me as a player, because I've only ever really played in one-shots or three-year-long epic campaigns.

Yeah. So it was cool to come into a short-ish, I guess, short-medium story and just to see how you approached it and how you approached gently pushing and prodding us into character creation that would serve a shorter form story and keeping us sort of always on task with like, okay, this is your,

this is, you don't have a short term, a medium term, and a long term goal. You really just have this one. This is the one that we get. We gotta keep you focused on it. And it was just so cool to watch you balance the needs of this short form story with the demands of Matt's gigantically huge world.

And it was, that in and of itself is a feat. And you should be congratulated for it. Thanks, man. You suck, Brennan. You suck. Oh, I should have brought that. as a feat and you should be congratulated for it. Thanks, man. You suck, Brennan. That's crazy. Oh, I should have brought that. I can't tell if it helps if it's the clap. Well done.

Oh shit. Oh my god. What a bitch. It was a, what an incredible joy. And I feel like that was the, that's the, you know, so much of the fun of stepping in here for this story was that thing of like, almost like an operator of a switchboard, right?

Because you have all this beautiful material and you're like, okay, Vespin Chlorid. Like all of the, I was going back over it like, it's like, why was Asmodeus the betrayer god? And you're like, in the lore of Exandria, pre-established by Matt, the rumor is that Vespin Chloris is at the right hand of Asmodeus.

And you read that and you go, well, if this motherfucker released every betrayer god, why is he at the right hand of just this one guy? And just all of a sudden, just the ideas start coming and it's very like, okay, and you plug that in there and you go, okay, so Vespin does that. But it's the age of Arcanum

also was just shitty wizards everywhere. So I don't want it to be like, these guys were fucking just like, we never did anything wrong, and just Vespin Chloris ruined fucking everything for us. It's like, no, you're all fucking culpable, baby. Vespin is symptomatic of the larger age, right? And you all share some blame in this, right? And then establishing, but why does Vespin Chloras have the unique sort of station that he does in the conscience of Exandria?

And it's like, well, number one, Avalir was so destroyed that what fucking stories came out of it, right? As opposed to Vasselheim, which we know does get successfully defended by the Prime Deities, and Vespin Chloras' crimes were known in the city. So it's like his story has a way better chance of surviving historically, in addition to the deal he made

with the fucking Lord of the Hells to never be forgotten. Yeah, can we also just, I'm going to barf compliments on Luis for a second here. Because my first time playing with you, it's at our table. Surely Brennan will pick on someone else to start the story. Yes, I thought. He threw you into the labyrinthian trench. It was churning waters and madness,

and I was like, well, that's one way to have someone never come back and play this again. But you just smashed it. How did it feel to start with the Lord of the Hells kicking off the whole thing? How did that go? start with the Lord of the Hells kicking off the whole thing? How did that go? I don't even know how, okay.

You could have fucked up so bad. Yeah. It was such high stakes. For sure. That's true. It was the beginning of a four-part thing. You could have fucked up the whole thing. Could have. I didn't?

Yeah, that's like the old movie line where you're like, well, that's one way to go. Like, I was like, we're fucked from the start. You rose to the challenge immensely. It was amazing. I had no, so I think I had asked Lu. No! I think before we started, I think I just went to Lu

and I was like, so, I mean, I don't, what's gonna, I mean, we're about to start, right? And then you had said, oh, Brennan usually, you know, starts off with like vignettes, like a spotlight on each character. And I was like, oh, okay, she's not going to start with me. No idea until partway through. And I think you see my face kind of go, do something.

And I was like, oh, okay, we're here. But I had asked, I think I had said this in the Twitter thing too, that I had, you know, one of the things that I had asked Brennan for was I wanted to have an encounter with a Betrayer God because I didn't know where in the Calamity we were going to take place. What a weird request. I know.

But I wanted to see what would happen. Redemption, Paladin, to the extreme, confronting a Betrayer God. But I thought it was going to happen, I didn't know it was going to happen like this at all. Like, in a more intimate way, I just thought I would see a Betrayer God in the distance eventually approaching. I would have to go and confront them and then that would be how my character probably dies. And then it was, here's this dream and this really intimate, like I didn't know I was going to care for them.

I didn't know what Betrayer God we were going to meet and I didn't know I was going to care for them. I didn't know what Betrayer God we were going to meet, and I didn't know I was going to care for them the way that unfolded. And one of the things, just talk a little bit more about Zerxus for a moment. There's one hidden thing that I had incorporated into him, the way he sees the world, and that he establishes attachments fast, which I was surprised

that it wasn't a red flag to people, because he falls in love with Vandran immediately, and then he meets this kid, and he's like, you're my son immediately, so he creates intense attachments fast, and then here we are, having a meeting with the betrayrayer God in this really intimate way, and I was like, okay, attachment created. That's really good.

But also, we couldn't see it. We didn't see any of that happening. I mean, we were at the table watching it, and you were like, I'm going to redeem him. We were like, that's definitely not the thing you do but I'm so glad you're doing it shout out to the reaction corners just being like

what when you came out of the of the thing and we were just kind of like we were leaving and it was just like

I guess we gotta go we gotta all meet up to go fight Lucretia there wasn't the like PC versus actual me moment of being like

hey dog you gonna tell me you gonna tell me that crazy thing just happened in there? And then time just kept going on and it was like, I guess he's not. He's not gonna tell me that he was cuddling a betrayer god while I was just standing

outside the door being like, shit, man, we gotta go. And I will still say, the instinct behind it predominantly was paternal. But I can see how it can become all kinds, I will still say, the instinct behind it predominantly was paternal. Yeah. But I can see how it can become all kinds, I mean, like, Elias and Evandrin, you know, like, Elias, grown up, looks like Evandrin,

and so it was super fucking confusing to be like, you're so tender and caring and also receptive of any intimacy that comes from me, whether it's paternal or some confused romantic. It was so crazy. It was so cool. But it was also, I mean, it was wild to watch because it's such an, it's so, those choices are unexpected, unusual.

At one point, I feel like in the first game, at one point I was like, wait, maybe Louis didn't hear him. Maybe he didn't hear Brennan that this is a- That this is the Lord of Hells? Yeah, it's a red guy with big horns. Big horns. Big horns.

Maybe he's like, I don't know, maybe he's hard of hearing or something. Maybe he missed it. Listen, I just need to say, you know, for real, in terms of everyone, like everyone's character was so truthful to the thing they had said at the outset. In terms of plot, everyone's character was so truthful to the thing they had said at the outset. In terms of plot, blighting that fucking tree

and pulling that devil through the fucking portal. Oh my god. Hey, as all the bad guys, thank you. Thank you. Because truly, from a storytelling perspective, I needed it. I was like, incredible. You almost licked your lips when he did it. He was like, I'm going to pull him through it.

I saw you go, yeah. I just, yeah. That was a moment where I like, I had trouble with that as a person of me. Like, what the fuck are you doing? You all are dead. Do whatever fucking mental loopholes you need to jump through to get on fucking

Team Save the World. Like, what is this shit? I will say, my favorite part was watching, because that second, when you were being in Oracle meeting with the Lord of Hells, watching Brennan start that super neutrally, and the moment you fed him compassion, there's nothing more fun than watching a DM dial

and like, got it. Yeah! And then you watch the entire encounter change to feed you the thing that Xerxes was already like. There's something so beautiful about the way you like stated everything which was never like asking anything of him or

inciting or doubting it. You were feeding him what he wanted him to tell you. Yeah. And all he had to do was bounce it back at you. Yeah. And it was just the most heartbreaking thing I've ever seen because I was like, oh, I understand exactly

why a person like Xerxes in this moment would do that and get that back and it's just this horrifying feedback loop. 100%. Why it would never occur to him

to try to challenge that by doing mechanically an insight check or didn't do a zone of truth there. Not that it would have worked on the Lord of Hells, but he tried to do a bunch of things, remove curse, a bunch of stuff that I knew would fail,

but he was gonna try to do. I love that commitment. But I think it's also like, I mean, the Lord of the Hells, it's like the most evil, the evilest, right? And what is more evil in terms of being a liar, the god of lies? Trickery is one of his domains.

It's like, no, I don't flim flam a person with a steel resolve. I do what real evil is, which is I find somebody who already wants to believe. You know, you find somebody who already wants to believe. Yeah. You know, you find somebody who already wants it. Yep. And you go, is there something that you'd really like to be true?

Well, I'm not going to, how much does the devil even lie in those couple scenes? He mostly, you say stuff. You're like, the primed deities, they did this to you. And Homeboy's like, yeah, sure, man. Yep. You know, like, yeah, that works for me. It was so good. You know, like,

it's so much him just, like, letting you walk to where he wants you to walk. It was such a chilling take to see, to hear you do the devil going like, I never know what I'm going to look like to people. Just nonchalant, like, chills up my back, doesn't want to do this, doesn't want to be here, is over it, not conniving, not arch.

Sorry about my bad breath, guys. Oh, yeah. I like, it was the most, you did a lot of terrifying things this entire campaign, but that was the most terrifying. And I'd be lying if I didn't say, there was a part of me that was like, I just saw something that Brennan is capable of.

Yeah! Yes. That's a red flag! Yes. About the person? Respect earned. I'm glad that Brennan is like a good, an incredibly good and moral person to his core, because you're very intelligent, and I'm like,

oh, he can tap into this weird manipulation aspect that is horrifying. Horrifying! Of course, I mean. Well, that's the thing is that that type of, like what's so scary about manipulators is that they actually have, there's a whole thing in the,

there's a whole article talking about the neurology of it, but they literally said for that kind of manipulative behavior, it's high cognitive empathy, low emotional, emotional's not the right word, but in other words, you don't feel it when you hurt people, but you know what will hurt people.

And it's like those type of people have profound understanding. Like the idea of like, no, no, I really get you, and I know what I need to say to, there was so much stuff we didn't have time to get to even in all the hours of that long finale. But I had, I spent a lot of time thinking about

the Lord of the Hells and what he thought about stuff. And there was a thing of like, if it ever had been a longer conversation after his turning on you, of you being like, of like, what was a lie and what was the truth? Very little that he said was a lie. There were some lies and there really was what he said,

but when he showed up to you wounded, that's the manipulation of him showing up injured because, and I remember the line I had for him was going to be, yeah, I appeared to you injured because you guys love it when people are hurting. Oh wow. was going to be, yeah, I appeared to you injured because you guys love it when people are hurting. Oh, wow. Ooh, yeah. And he's like, you know,

you love it when people hurt. And if I had shown up to you in my full power, you would have hated me because you hate when things stand tall. Ooh. And just really having that thing of him being like, no, you guys are the ones who are fucked up. Yeah.

And he's wrong and evil, but it was like finding what he hates about mortals was very fun. And if I scared anyone, good. Dude, the fact that you did that with, like you dropped affectations, like your voices and mannerisms are great for NPCs. The fact that you played

the Lord of the Hells and dropped all of that I was like that's just Brennan talking I know it fucks with your head yeah I love it

I love it it's very good we've been talking for a little bit and as everyone can see our mic packs are starting to all the batteries

are starting to eat it but a few more questions before we wrap it up, but I do desperately want to know, Brennan, did you have any contingency plans should the end of the world not come about as expected? I had so many contingency plans. There was a whole plot about the Septarian

coming after you guys. Oh! All the people who ran, the wizards? In a world, yeah! We only had four episodes, so there was a ton of planning. I had all, like, people talk about, like, in terms of rails, there were a bunch of railroads you guys could have gone on

that those rails just, we won't ever get to. But in a world where you guys see shit starting to go wrong and not even all of you, but just one of you goes to the Septarian or someone goes and says, hey, we should alert da-da-da-da-da other thing, or especially in a case where you all go to the Septarian and say something wrong is happening here and try to get the city on your side,

they were going to declare you guys fugitives. And there was going to declare you guys fugitives. And there was going to be a whole thing of them coming after you. I thought about it for a second, because there was someone that the senior site warden reports to, and I was like, nah, if I don't trust these people,

I certainly don't trust that list of people. You didn't trust us? Somebody the wives, somebody the beards. Somebody the beards. In terms of the various contingencies, yeah, there were a ton. So, but in terms of you guys averting the calamity, those contingencies are kind of the most boring ones.

Like in the ones where you don't blight the tree, you don't pull the Lord of the Hells in, then it's like, yeah, Vespin rolls up and the tax men go evil, and then it's a fight at the tree, or if you don't pull the Lord of the Hells through, then it's like, only Vespin

can come through, but he pulls in some devils and they kill Xerxes. It's like, most of the contingencies for you guys are less responsible for the calamity is brute force. Something comes in. They use the artifacts from Orwyn's office.

They use the blood they got from you. Da-da-da-da-da-da. Some other thing happens. You guys manage to somehow jury rig the helm and stop the city, but then the sun rises and you turn. So there's all this stuff that, weirdly, the contingencies for that were

some of the most simple ones. Other contingencies, there were a bunch of contingencies also for that final combat that was very interesting. For example, there were a bunch of like, you guys holding the tax men in that first round at the door changed a lot of, that was like huge. That last battle was so, everyone was so fucking good.

The inspiration going to Sarah. We gotta talk about that, that, wait a minute. Yeah, the last thing I'll say is, I actually had the contingency, the contingency I had for Laren. There was that moment at the end with Vespin and the insane Nat 20 that got him down.

I actually had contingencies for what happened if Laren died. Ooh. Yeah, I was totally prepared for Laren to go down in that last final fight, which was essentially that someone was going to have to

make a, you know, unreal, impossible DC Arcana check with disadvantage. To figure out her work? To try to complete the last couple. And that probably would have been loquacious, which would have been very cinematic in its own. Oh, that would have been so good! I should have died, I'm sorry.

Yeah, you should have died. My bad. Give me my moment. Yeah, no, 100%. Yeah, blah, blah, blah. 100%. I'll take him back! But wait, that final... Wait, hold on. That final roll.

That final roll. The 31. It wouldn't have been done without the inspiration. Without the buff. I mean... That's right, we were all just throwing everything we had to just just like, get Saret out.

Oh my goodness. I mean, it was just so good. Just from my chair, because he had done all the things he needed to do for his kids. He had atoned in that way, let all that stuff go, focused on the thing, killed the thing, but it wasn't done. Like could could he get out and leave and it it only would have happened it only could have happened because of the ring of brass he couldn't do it by himself yeah and so that that that was just so

fucking perfect yeah one little spark of one of the answer. It takes the whole table. And it wasn't guaranteed. It doesn't matter that you were friends. At all. Yeah. That wasn't in the plan at all. Without that eight? Yep. For sure. Yeah, without that eight,

there's no world where that... Nope. Yeah. It's possible. He goes down with everybody else. I mean, realistically, too, we still don't really have any idea. Did Serrit make it back to his kids? He knows Gwessar, that's all he knows.

Gwessar, yes, somewhere in Gwessar. He is the world's greatest detective, but, you know. You sent the library to his daughter, who's at the University of Arcane Wizardry, like, you know. Travis, you texted me. You texted me and you were like, what did you just do to my daughter? Because for a moment there, you know. Yeah. Travis, you texted me. You texted me and you were like, what did you just do to my daughter? Yeah, because for a moment there,

you were like, and I send it to, because I hadn't picked up on what you had done. I didn't know that the little miniature was the culmination of knowledge of Avalir that you sent it to her. And I was like, this bitch is fucking with my daughter. There's no limit to her evil.

Oh, wait, it's way, way better than that. But I mean, to be fair, I don't know, because part of my inspiration for Patia was like, what if we hadn't lost the Library of Alexandria? What if we had a record of all of that and all of this knowledge just hadn't been lost? And I've asked Matt since then as well, I'm like, where's my orb?

Is the orb still around? Where is it? There is something that me and Aabria are the only, at this moment, at the time of this moment, the only people in the world who have the experience of, which is the camera stops rolling and suddenly Canon leaves you. And I immediately wanted to run and find Matt and be like,

is the orb okay? I am not, I don't have any say anymore. It goes back to you now. Is it fine? The little library, where is it at? You'll get the moment, Brennan. At some point, it will pop, like something will pop up in C3

and you'll just be there and be like, it happened and it mattered. It happened and it mattered. Why do we die? I saw this fan theory that is 100% just a fan theory, but I kind of like it.

Did you see this one? I don't know what you're talking about. Once again, all fan, not canon, but that the library going to the daughter of a master detective and then getting all of this library information was like the origin of the cobalt. And like, this was like this I know

I know you know powerful structures if that ends up being true we came up with that idea this fan did not do it no I love that there's if ever there was a world with that idea. This fan did not do it.

No, I love that. If ever there was a world where I would jump, like there was someone else running something later in the Calamity, coming back and playing either Kier or Maya as an adult would be so fucking sick. Someone's right there down. Adult Kier, in my mind, is jacked. He's fucking huge, dude. Fucking huge, man. So fucking sick. Adult Ciar in my mind is jacked. He's fucking huge, dude.

Fucking huge, man. Ciar, is that you? Yeah, I fell on protein shakes. Talon two, now Talon fucking six. A lot of action. There was something we were talking about in terms of how everyone here bookended everything. Everything got bookended so well.

The 31 investigation for Vespin, the 31 investigation to get back to your family. That's crazy. And so fucking good. And I also wanted to talk about two things really quick that were just important to me to do as a DM, and also as a storyteller for the kinds of stories we tell. In a short story,

there are certain things that come through that feel like, because the story said this, the story is saying this is always true, right? And the story is making a claim about how the world works. And so it was something, in terms of the book ending of it all, it was really significant to me that Laren used her lay right to save Exandria.

Yeah. And that Xerxes used his cleansing redemption power to get Vespin back for a moment. Yeah. Because I didn't want the story to say science is bad and innovation is bad. Yeah, and compassion is bad. And compassion is bad.

It was like, I wanted the story to say something more nuanced of like, it was bad or like bad. It didn't work in this instance for these reasons. It didn't work in this instance for these reasons rather than making this big thing. And the fact that both of you guys, after blighting the tree

or after pulling the Lord of the Hells through, got to say, here is a chance to show what I mean by this, was very cool and just like, ugh, I loved it. Yeah, it was great. So good. So much poetry. Speaking of poetry, should we end on the burning question

that was submitted by... You know, why people have been watching this. The entire time. Yes, exactly. I think we've texted about ourselves. Yeah. Fan favorite, standout NPC, stole the show.

Brennan, is Bolo okay? What happened to Bolo from Aeor? I don't like her. I don't like her. You know, sometimes a PC will gift you with an NPC. Sometimes a PC will gift another PC with an NPC. Sometimes Bria will say, did you have a plus one? And Sam will go, that absolutely makes sense.

Sure. And then what'll happen is that- I said that'd be no problem. Yeah. And then what'll happen is that PC will, you know, name that NPC. And sometimes they'll just reach down into the top hat and see if a rabbit comes out.

And a rabbit doesn't come out. What comes out is Bolo. It's named Bolo. His name, Bolo. And then what you get to do is conscript Matt Mercer into doing Slavic accents for any Aeorians. Yes! And incepted. My name is Bolo.

I don't know why in that moment, but we were improvising it, and there you go, and that's Bolo. Bolo's dead. Yes! Oh! I love you, you know, we were improvising it and there you go and that's Bolo. Bolo's dead. Yes! Oh! I love you, Dino! No! Yes, no, no, no!

No, no, no! No, no, no! Or, or! But not the way you think. Or not the way you think. She dies 12 hours later because she gets hit by a wagon. No, no, no, no, no. I barely made it up.

She teleports. Which one is it? Which one is it? No. Or, or, no, no. She's teleporting. Which one is it? No. Or Bolo is an incredibly dangerous Aeorian spy who goes into Avalir during the chaos and finds a necessary piece of Arcanotech for Aeor's later work

with all the shady things that we know that they were working on. Absolutely. Threshold crest. Threshold crest, god hammer, anything, right? Or there's also a world where maybe Bolo was a polymorphed dragon and she just flew away. What?

She's a dragon? What? Who was this bitch? Wow. She was Bolo, she wants to be a reporter. Eventually. This your house is the most important thing. This your house?

Not a question, not a statement. Just words. She can't be a polymorphed dragon. She couldn't be. Why not? She doesn't know how to get a beer from a hot madon. Not all dragons know how to get a beer. How many beers are dragons out here grabbing?

I don't know. Hundreds? Yeah, dragons just rolling up to the ball. Excuse me, might I have a pint of ale? No, everything, if you actually kind of think about it, the dragon theory kind of makes a lot of sense. There's kind of a part of it that makes a lot of sense. I'm starting to think about it.

You know what I'm saying? Because she doesn't know how to get drinks, she wants to be a reporter eventually. Those are all the things we know about Bolo. Serino's Groupon, was she a dragon? Yeah, did Serino's Groupon the things we know about Bolo. She has a Reno's Groupon! Was she a dragon? Yeah, did the Reno's Groupon make an insight check on Bolo? Did you follow her to the drapes?

I think I was so stunned by Bolo's inherent beauty and strange personality that I didn't use my one feet that would have seen any illusions present. Was a dragon. Sam, you were Was a dragon. Sam, you were fucking a dragon. Hey, man, let me be clear. I will happily allow that. You just put that on the wall.

These draconic sorcerers have to come from somewhere. You know what I mean? At the end of the day. That's how the dragonborn race was born. Yeah, there you go. We remember back our progenitor, Bolo. Jesus. Oh my god.

Oh my god. Well. Well. Dragon fucking. Thanks, folks. Yeah. Long live Bolo. No.

Long may she reign. Thank you guys so much for doing this. This was truly the most special. I also want to give a quick shout out to our production crew, Producer Kyle, who spearhead this one. There were so many amazing little points of genius that I hope people have pointed out on

from everything from the graphics. The overlay. The overlay, yeah. I saw a few people notice it. What a wild detail. Yeah, over time, the overlay was slowly degrading and cracking and little Easter eggs. All of the incredible art that we had done

just across the board. Wanted to shout out from everyone from top to bottom. It really felt like just such, everyone was on their A game, you know, and not just the people who are sitting here in front of the camera, but all the people behind the camera as well. So it was absolutely incredible.

And yeah, we could say this is the end, but is it? Yeah, we died. It doesn't really feel like we're done. It's not, I don't think it's the end, because again, it's, you know, hope returns, right? Yeah. Did Patia's parents know the Matron of Ravens? I have so many other questions.

The Calamity is here forever. The Calamity is not here forever. No. So we all lived through it? We're fine? Yes, that would be sweet. Okay, so five of you are fucking dead, and that's what the dice said. Bolo is alive.

Bolo is 100% alive, unless she was dead the whole time she's undead! Yay! Oh, fucking necromancers, always so dramatic. So dramatic! Thank you guys so much. Thank you to everyone watching at home. We love you.

And is it Thursday? Yay! Yay! Yay! That's it for the episode. This is Marisha Ray, and thank you for listening to Exandria Unlimited on the Critical Role Podcast Network.

If you've enjoyed the show, please leave us a review on the podcast app of your choice. Your review might inspire someone to join the adventure for the very first time. There are unlimited stories to be told, and we can't wait to keep telling them. Until next time, is it Thursday yet?