Culture & Christianity: The Allen Jackson Podcast - A Life Saved vs. A Life Surrendered [Featuring Dr. Juris Shibayama]

Episode Date: March 14, 2025

This episode will challenge listeners to rethink their understanding of salvation and how living out their faith in the workplace can have a profound impact on people's lives. Pastor Allen Jackson sits down with Dr. Juris Shibayama to explore his remarkable journey from being an atheist to fully yielding his life to the Lord. Driven by an unrelenting search for truth, Dr. Shibayama reveals how influential books like Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis and The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel helped confront his skepticism and pride. The pivotal moment in his journey came when he realized there is a profound difference between being "saved" and truly "surrendered" to Christ.More Information:Happy, Joyous, and Free: One Man’s Journey and Guide to Ultimate Spiritual Health: https://a.co/d/4QPNMLvThe Steps to Freedom in Christ: https://freedominchrist.com/new-thestepstofreedominchrist.aspxThe Case for Christ: https://www.christianbook.com/case-christ-updated-expanded-mass-market/lee-strobel/9780310350033/pd/350034?event=BRSRCG|PSEN Mere Christianity: https://www.christianbook.com/mere-christianity-c-s-lewis/9780060652920/pd/2926X?event=BRSRCG|PSEN__ It’s up to us to bring God’s truth back into our culture. It may feel like an impossible assignment, but there’s much we can do. Join Pastor Allen Jackson as he discusses today’s issues from a biblical perspective. Find thought-provoking insight from Pastor Allen and his guests, equipping you to lead with your faith in your home, your school, your community, and wherever God takes you. Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3JsyO6ysUVGOIV70xAjtcm?si=6805fe488cf64a6d Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/culture-christianity-the-allen-jackson-podcast/id1729435597

And obviously, God was doing a work in my life at this point, because, I mean, for me to even entertain these things or even be in a church and all this stuff. And I felt like Lee Strobel did. You know, Lee Strobel thought, well, I'm just going to prove that Jesus didn't exist over a weekend. And he says, you know, after two years of overwhelming evidence, the flood was just coming at me. He's like, I just have no choice what to accept this. And so I went kind of on that same investigation and I came to understand and believe that Jesus, actually existed, he was crucified, died physically, and was resurrected from the dead. And the historical evidence behind that is solid.

You know, this is a historical event, you know, and so it's, it's, it's, you know, Christianity isn't just a good set of ideas or a good system to live by or something that'll, you know, help your life get better. It's just the truth. Well, welcome to culture and Christianity. As you know, our goal is to take our faith outside the walls of the church. You know, it's good to go to church. I'm a pastor. I spend a lot of time in church.

But the real test of our faith is who we are when we're not sitting in a formal worship service. When we're in the marketplace or schools or homes where our life really happens so that we don't live compartmentalized or segmented lives, that we integrate that faith across our lives. And this podcast is really targeted towards that. So I've got to introduce you to some friends and acquaintances that are really living out that whole culture and Christianity idea. And I'm delighted to welcome a new guest today. Dr. Yeris Shibayama, welcome. Thank you. I'm going to read your little CV they gave me.

You were an orthopedic surgeon, the son of first-generation immigrants. You're the author of a book that we're going to talk about, Happy, Joyous and Free, One Man's Journey and Guide to Ultimate Spiritual, health, from spiritual death to abundant life. You've got my attention with that, and I've enjoyed your book. We want to talk about that. But I want to start just a little bit. You live here in Middle Tennessee. You still practice medicine.

Yes. I always smiled. My dad was a veterinarian, and so the practice of medicine. If I'm the one going to the doctor, I don't really want to think about the fact that you're practicing. I want to think you've mastered it. Yeah. Science is an evolving story.

Yes. So you're an orthopedic surgeon? Yes. Orthopedic spine surgeon. I was going to say with a specialty in spinal surgery? Yes, yes. No margin for error in that. So it's a little delicate, yes.

So you've spent how many years training? Well, I joke with people that when I graduated from fellowship, I welcomed them to my 26th grade graduation. So it was 26 years of schooling. You know, I always smile. When people say doctors get paid too much or something, I'm like, you don't understand the decades they spend in training and the sacrifices they make in order.

to be able to help us. You don't arrive at that place easily. So thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah, that's my pleasure. I spend a summer with a neurosurgeon, and I'll never forget. I don't think anything is debilitating his back pain, seeing people balled up, you know, in a fetal position and post-op without the pain. I mean, it's miraculous to watch what can happen. Yes, it's a wonderful gift to be able to help people in that way and, you know, take them from physical ailments to back to a great quality of life. Really enjoy it. So we'll talk about the book in more detail, but the general trajectory of this story is, on one level, you live the American dream. Yes. I mean, wonderful education, great opportunities,

tremendous career. Maybe we start with that. I understand you also were a competitive eater. Is that right? Yes. I had a friend tell me that. Yeah. So, I mean, you really have been, had a lot of gifts and had a lot of success. Yes. Where did you go to school? Well, I went to Northwestern in Chicago for my undergrad and then went to University of Illinois for medical school. That was in Rockford, Illinois. And then I did my orthopedic residency at University of Miami, Miami, Florida, and then a one-year

spine fellowship at Rush University Medical Center in Chicago. Did you get recruited to Middle Tennessee? No. After I spent five years in Miami, I didn't really want to move north of the Mason-Dixon line because of the weather. And I love Chicago, but it's cold. And so I thought, you know, Middletonsie would be a great place to land and the opportunity was amazing. I knew, you know, as fast as Murphy'sboro is still growing back in 2006 when I came, it was, you know, burgeoning even then.

And I knew that it was a great practice opportunity. It seemed like a great place to live. And so that's where I landed and I've been here ever since. Well, you mentioned that you're a first generation immigrant. immigration is a topic that has had a lot of ink lately. Yes. I often say I'm a huge fan of immigration, legal immigration. It's made our nation strong.

Yes. Not a simple process always. I mean, it takes some patience and determination can be expensive. But where's your family, where'd your parents immigrate from? So my dad is from Japan. Yeah. And then my mom is from Latvia. And so she was a refugee, actually, in Germany and England after Russia.

occupied Latvia after World War II. And then they ended, her and her family ended up in Chicago. And so they became citizens that way. And then my father was an architect. He, you know, trained at a great university in Japan. And he actually, he just came to the United States just for one year because he thought it would be a great opportunity. And so he came to Chicago. And he thought that, you know, he would learn a lot of things and then go back to Japan. But then he met my mom. And so then they got married. And, you know, and that's how. And then he's how. And then he's, He also went through all of the proper channels to become a citizen. And then they had me and the rest of the history.

That's awesome. That's been the strength of our nation. We've come from everywhere. Yes. You know, as American citizens aren't defined by how we look or our accent. You know, we really are a melting pot. Yes. But there have been a set of values that have bound us together.

And I really think that's what the struggle is right now. What are the values you to bind us together as we go forward? Yes. I pray that the church in general wakes up to that reality. So what made you decide to go into medicine? Well, I enjoy talking to people and being with people. And also, again, you know, in terms of chasing the American dream, you know, my parents emphasized education.

Actually, my dad being an architect, he said, don't be an architect because your job goes up and down with the economy. He said, be a doctor because it doesn't matter what the economy is doing. You'll always have work to do. And he said, you know, even during a depression, more people get sick. So, you know, I was very adept at science and math. And so I thought, you know, in terms of, you know, achieving the American dream and being successful, that being a doctor would be a good path to take.

Absolutely. I always, my father was, I like medicine. I like the challenge of medicine. It always feels like a puzzle to me. You get a few symptoms, but then you've got to figure out how to arrange it all and how do you get to the best conclusion. And every day feels like a challenge. Mm-hmm. Orthopedics is hard work, though.

That's a physically demanding specialty. Yeah, well, as the surgeries become less invasive, it's becoming less physically demanding, which I appreciate now that I'm getting older. So, you know, it's really amazing, you know, what we can do now. We're doing, you know, doing even endoscopic surgeries for the spine, you know, through five-millimeter incisions. And so, yes, it is physical, but it's becoming less so,

and that's good for me long term. Absolutely. That's a miracle. Yeah, the old days were the old orthopods would have arthritis in their hands. It took a toll on it. Oh, yeah. I'm so grateful. We have the best health care in the world.

Yes. It's been widely denigrated and mocked mostly because I think people wanted it for free. But I think we've had the best health care in the world. I think we're struggling right now post really Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act. I think it has brought some disruption. And then COVID added some momentum to that. But I have some hope we're going to recover and find a way forward where patients will rise again to the top of the agenda. We'll see what happens with that.

But thank you for your years of study and sacrifice and for serving people. Yeah, absolutely. It's my pleasure. I have lived in places in the world where you couldn't walk into a doctor. And so to have health care available or if you dial 911, they send a bus with all the tools in it to help you is still amazing to me. Yeah. We're so blessed. So your story is you live the American dream.

You got a good education. You had a nice family. And yet everything you chased really didn't bring the satisfaction you were looking for. Is that accurate? Oh, yeah. No, that's absolutely true. You know, I grew up, you know, with the two immigrant parents. And, you know, the American dream is to be successful and earn a lot of money.

And so, you know, I followed that protocol. And then I finally arrived here in Middle Tennessee. And I was married. I had a beautiful daughter and this burgeoning practice. And this was still something inside of me that was just saying, you know, is this all there is? Like, I'm not satisfied. You know, and I grew up. I did not grow up with any spirituality or church or God or anything.

You know, there was, we had thousands of books in our house. But if we had a Bible, I couldn't even tell you where it was. And we never talked about God. And it was just not something that we did. And then also as I, you know, was adept at math and science, and I came to the conclusion that, well, science is able to explain everything. And so, you know, I really, I never gave God a second thought or any kind of spiritual matters. And actually, I mean, I got to the point where I became very against God. You know, I was, I was very vocal atheist. And as I got older and more along in my education,

that became more and more. I think academia tends to reinforce that. The Bible puts it in terms of knowledge puffs up. Yes. And it makes you believe you can solve every problem with logic and determined reason. History doesn't suggest that, but academia does. So what brought you to the place where faith made its way under your radar? Well, so I was married and then I got divorced.

And then I met my current wife, and she grew up in Middle Tennessee. She's from Bursheba Springs. Big town. Yeah. It's amazing. She's amazing. She's a physician assistant, and she played basketball at Kansas State. And so she was a physician assistant for one of my partners in Nashville.

And we met and started dating, and we got married. And, you know, she came to Murphy'sboro. And, you know, no matter what we're. doing or things going on in our lives, you would always go to church on Sunday. And that was kind of confusing to me because I didn't go to church. I didn't want to go to church. And so one day we even had this conversation, I said, you know I don't go to church. And she said, well, you know that I do. And I said, well, that's fine as long as you know I don't. And she said, well, that's fine as long as you know that I do. And I said, okay, then we had an understanding, you know. So she would go to church

every Sunday. I wouldn't. And then one day, you know, I just said, you know, I'll go to church with you today. And it's not because I was interested in God or even wanted to be in a church, but just because I wanted to spend time with her. And so we went to church. And that day, for the first time that I could remember, I was 35 years old, the pastor said, that Jesus was an actual person, an actual human being. Historical figure. Historical figure, yeah, who existed. You know, prior to this, I just thought Jesus was some mythological figure,

some created being to make children behave and things like that. And so I thought, wow, okay, well, if this Jesus guy was a real person, like he was an actual human being, like, who walked on the earth, the historical figure, like you said. You know, I thought about the statue outside of Rio and, like, you know, all of these things. And there's still people talking about Jesus today, like billions of people talking about Jesus. Well, maybe there's something to this. So I started asking her a bunch of questions.

And she would answer some of them, but I got to the point. She said, look, you know, if you really have questions, you need to go talk to a pastor. And so at that point, we'd been going to church every week. And so, you know, and of course, with my ego and pride, I was like, well, I can't just talk to any pastor. I have to talk to the head pastor. So, I made an appointment with head pastor and Pastor Brady, you know. And so I went in there with my guns blazing, you know, I was going to, I was going to, I was going to, you know, he was going to refute his faith in front of me, you know, at the end of the meeting. And, you know, with all of my objections to organize religion and all the problems that I thought

with organized religion. And so, so we had that meeting. And, you know, there was a couple things, you know, why I came in there saying, you know, all these holy wars and the crusades and all these people who kill in the name of God and how can this be a good thing and, you know, how can people believe in this? And he said, well, you know, the fact that you can't judge Jesus. on people. People will do whatever they're going to do, but that doesn't change who Jesus is and what he's done. And as a matter of fact, the whole reason Jesus came is

because we're all broken and we all fall short. And so we all need a savior. And so people are going to do sinful things and evil things. That's our nature. So you can't, but you can't judge Jesus himself on other people. And I said, okay, well, I'll buy that. And then I said, you know, Christians are, they're against everything fun, you know, like, you know, drinking and, you know, and haven't, you know, they can't be loud and all this stuff. And, you know, and God is against sex and all this stuff.

And he was like, well, he said, well, God isn't necessarily against all those things per se. He said, actually, you know, God created sex. You know, God, God wants you to have sex within the confines of marriage, as he has defined it. One man, one woman inside of marriage. And it's, you know, it's a gift. And he actually wants you to have sex with your wife. And so that really got my attention. And he said, you know, it's like, it's like fire.

Fire is a gift, you know. And but you don't go around lighting fires everywhere you please. You know, you use it as a special tool for what you need. And I said, okay, well, that's good. And then also, and I said, you know, I had two preconceived notions about church prior to coming. And, you know, one is that is brainwashing. I said, well, you're just brainwashing people, you know, into trying to get them behave or do certain things or whatever. And so, but that, you know, that is actually true.

But the truth also is we wash our brains with whatever we're putting in there. Whatever it is. Like if you're taking in media or TV. or radio or whatever, your brain is being washed with that all the time. So, but in church, you know, we're washing our brains with truth, you know, the truth of God's word, you know, how the world operates, how he created it. That's good. And so that was one of my preconceived notions. The other one is that, you know, churches for people who are weak, people who can't, you know, I was tough. I was smart. I was strong. I could accomplish things. And people just use God

as a crutch and say, well, I can't do this and all the. But, you know, Mark, just the OPE to the people. There's the OPE to the people, yeah. Yeah, but what I didn't realize is that I was weak. You know, I was weak in my flesh and that we're all weak. And so anyhow, so after that meeting, he directed me to books, Mure Christianity by C.S. Lewis, atheists or and Christian, and also a case for Christ, Lee Strobel, was an atheist or Christian. And so I read those books.

And obviously, God was doing a work in my life at this point because, I mean, for me to even entertain these things or even be in a church and all this stuff. And I felt like Lee Stroble did. Lee Strobel thought, well, I'm just going to prove that Jesus didn't exist over a weekend. And he says, you know, after two years of overwhelming evidence, the flood was just coming at me. It's like, I just have no choice but to accept this. And so I went kind of on that same investigation and I came to understand and believe

that Jesus actually existed. He was crucified, died. physically and was resurrected from the dead. And the historical evidence behind that is solid. You know, this is a historical event, you know, and so it's, it's, it's, you know, Christianity isn't just a good set of ideas or a good system to live by or something that'll, you know, help your life get better. It's, it's just the truth. Hey, I've written a new book, Angels, Demons, and you. I believe, I believe in angels. I believe in and I believe they impact you and me.

We better have a plan for that. You know, I meet Christians all the time. He says, well, I just don't believe in that, Pastor. I don't like to talk about that. That's a novel approach. You know, I like to eat chocolate. Suppose I said, I just don't believe chocolate will make you fat. I don't believe that.

It wouldn't make me thin. Denying the truth of Scripture will not make us safer, happier, are our lives more fruitful. We need to take counsel from the Word of God so we can live victorious lives. Angels and demons and demons, are real. The demons oppose the purposes of God for you. The angels will help with the purposes of God for you. We need a plan for how we can engage in a meaningful way. This book is taken from

scripture intended to help you flourish in your journey through time. You can get a copy at Alan Jackson.com slash warfare. And so, you know, once I came to that point, I was like, I was at the same point as Lee Strobel. I'm like, well, this is true. So if this is true, this has implications for everything. And that's when I came to accept Jesus as my Savior and Lord. I did that on February 14th of 2010, and then I got baptized on March 21st of 2010. What an amazing story. And no matter how many times I hear a version of that in somebody's life,

it still causes me to pause with a sense of holy wonder, that there is a creator God and that he would welcome us into a relationship with him. still is stunning to me. Yes, absolutely. The Bible makes no explanation for that. It simply gives us that God loves us without any explanation. And when I watch our behavior, I don't understand. You know, I was certainly rebellious, and we aren't, I mean, as a species, we're pretty self-destructive.

And yet God loves us. Yeah. Amazing. You said something I want to go back to before we do your book. Sure. you had the notion that Jesus would, my take on what you said, was really diminish your life. You take away your pleasure, he'd take away your fun. Yes.

That the best way to exist is as far away from God as you can get, which I think is a pretty prevalent idea. Unfortunately, even amongst people who go to church. And in reality, I have found that the more I open my life to God, the more fulfilling life is in every way. Yes. Pleasure, joy, happiness. it's just more fulfilling and rewarding. Am I overstating that? No, absolutely.

So, yeah, prior to me coming to faith in Christ, I would have classified myself as a hedonist. I did what I want, when I wanted, as much as I wanted, and I just sought pleasure, pleasure, you know, and satisfying myself all the time, to which, you know, landed me flat. And then, but, you know, I think John Piper has described Christian hedonism, you know, where, you know, the true abundant life is,

in Christ. Life is more fulfilling. It's more satisfying. There's more joy. And all of these things are in the Bible. They're all in Scripture. And yet that's one of the things, kind of, one of the reasons I wanted to round my book, too, is, you know, like the marketing campaign, not that Jesus needs the marketing campaign, but for the church, really is John 1010. You know, I came so that you may have life and have it abundantly. And who doesn't want an abundant life? Who would say no to that? Right. You know? But there's a cost. And Jesus has also said, in me, your joy may be complete. In me, it may have peace. You know, that's only where it's found. And so, yeah, I, you know, I am happy, joy,

is free, satisfied in Christ, complete. I'm not searching for anything else, you know, because there is nothing else. And as I've grown in my Christian journey, it's not just about what I receive here on this earth. I mean, the prize, the blessing is, the relationship with Jesus. That is where contentment is found. It's the paradox of the Christian experience. Yes. In surrendering our lives to the Lordship of Jesus, we find true life. Yes. And that's not just some fancy take on language. You actually find greater fulfillment, greater meaning, greater satisfaction, greater contentment, greater pleasure, all of those things that we were searching for in our totally self-absorbed drive,

more is fulfilled when we lay our life down. Yes. But the challenge, and this is the challenge so that we don't slip into some easy believism, is even after conversion, we have to continue on a daily basis to yield our lives. And that's not easy. No. You know, when I make a profession of faith, that part of Allen that still says what I want and what I think, that is a loud voice in my head that has to be addressed on a very regular

basis. Yes. Have you found that to be, not about my head, but have. Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. I always tell people my biggest challenge is remembering that there's a God that I'm not him. And, you know, and actually I was thinking, I was discussing this to my kids in Bible study last night. I was thinking about Paul. And I think, you know, in our culture today, too, with particularly the South and Christianity,

we think that everything is going to be comfortable and easy. And, you know, life is still a challenge. And like Paul, you know, he did not have a comfortable life. He had a much more comfortable life prior to conversion. BC, yes. And afterwards, you were shipwrecked, beaten, jailed, all that stuff. But I'm sure if you would ask him, when I get to heaven someday, I'll ask him, how much peace, contentment, joy did you have?

I'm sure he would say the second half of his life had much more of that than the first half of his life. Well, in the first half, we know he was angry, violent. you know, all the components of a self-destructive lifestyle, which is where we all end up, if you feed me and what I want without any guardrails on that at all, I'll always drive myself to something self-destructive. Yes.

But it's in that yielding. That's that paradox. How do you get more freedom by yielding? Yes. That's the mystery of the cross. Yeah. And the grace of God towards us. Moses, you know, after that famous burning,

Bush event in Exodus 3. I don't think he had another easy day his whole life. You know, he was doing okay with his shepherding business on the backside of the desert. And God intervened. And he had Pharaoh and a grumpy group of people and no food and no water. And I mean, the rest of us, serving the Lord isn't easy. You know, people, I don't like disingenuous testimonies, which is what I really appreciated about your book. But, you know, when people say, you know, my life was miserable and I met Jesus, and every day after that, the sky was bluer, and the grass was greener. And I'm like, well, the skies may be bluer, but the devil's still alive and well on planet Earth. And my old carnal nature did not retire. And it's a challenge. Your book is happy, joyous, and free,

one man's journey and guide to ultimate spiritual health. It's a good read. It is very accessible. I mean, Euris has a big brain and a big education, but the book is very accessible. I commend it to you. And I want to thank you. If you've never written a book, you may think it's a vanity project, but my experience is writing a book is difficult if you write a good one. And yours is both thoughtful and transparent, which is not easy. Most of us want to write a book and say, you know, I'm kind of like Superman. I'm faster than a speeding bullet. But you were pretty honest in this book about getting, arriving at a point where you needed God's help. Yes.

Can you tell us a little bit about that story? Yeah, so yeah, this is one of the reasons why I wanted to write that book, because I did not want to project this persona of, you know, being a follower of Jesus and the spine surgeon and family and just, you know, everything is just perfect, you know, and that I arrived at this place and there's been no struggles along the way. I mean, and actually I want people to know that, you know, Jesus is the cornerstone for all of this in my life. And he is the reason, you know, for the joy and peace that I have today. And so, but for me to come to that point, like I said, I was saved in 2010. And, you know, at that point, I became the good Christian where I started checking all the boxes. Started working on the facade. Yeah, exactly. My life was still about performance, appearance, and control. And it was not about relationship with Jesus.

And so I would check the boxes. We, you know, we were going to church. We joined a small group. volunteer in the preschool. And at this point, I'm trying to use God and Jesus to even make me look better, you know, and I hate that. And I hate that about myself back then. So, but during that time also, and then in my ego and pride during that time, you know, I never prayed, which is, you know, ridiculous thinking back on that now. But, you know, my thought process at that point was, well, God knows everything that's going to happen. He knows what I want. He knows what I need. He knows what's

going to happen like why do I need to talk to him about it um and the the reason why is because i need a relationship like it's about the relationship with him it's a relationship to god through jesus and so anyway so this you know my my non-prayer technique works so well that i went to rehab for alcoholism in in 2015 and uh it was you know i i'd always drank through college and and medical school and then afterwards and you know i would always confine it to to weekends and vacations because thankfully I did not put any in my patients at risk. But, you know, I would drink and then, you know, I would get in my marriage and my current wife, you know, things were starting to go south again. And I couldn't understand why.

And it's because I was working all the time and I was not present as a husband and I was not, I was not following Jesus as I should, you know, as that's, that is how, you know, my marriage is saved. because of anything I did is because I just became a more, a better disciple of Jesus Christ. That's a helpful point. You're a Christ following. We're born again, water baptized, church attending, volunteering. You're doing all the stuff. But we still need God's help. Yes. So church is not a hall of fame. We're in the habit of saying it's a triage unit. Yeah. That those of us that walk in the building on the weekends are very much in need of God's help and

assistance. I think that's such an important point because people that stand outside of Christianity think, oh, you're a Christian, you think you know how to do it all. No, I just realized how much help I needed. And this was a place where I still find help. Yes. And I think your honesty around that is a powerful message to anyone who is struggling, that there is a way through that and there is help available. Yes. And you've found meaningful help in 12 steps, which I think is wonderful. Yes. No, absolutely. I mean, it's built on biblical principles. Yes. Yeah. I have a whole chapter in my book about that. And so that to me kind of, you know, when I got saved and baptized in 2010, and I'm not going to put this on anybody else, but kind of the message I got was, here's your Bible, come to church, join a small group, and, you know, good luck.

And, you know, I. Wait for the trumpet. You know, I did not, there was no path, really, or blueprint or guide for me to try and be a good. disciple of Jesus Christ. I mean, and so in the 12 steps, you know, what I found in the 12 steps, you know, they're in order for a reason. Steps one through three, our relationship with God, steps four through seven, our relationship with self, and then eight through 12 is relationship with others. And so that to me was the most effective, efficient blueprint for me to become a good follower as as as good a follower of Jesus Christ as I can be and fully surrender. You know, I, I, I wasn't

surrendered in 2010. I surrendered some parts of my life to Jesus, but not other parts. And you know, Jesus doesn't want, he didn't come to be a part of my life. He came to be my life. And so, you know, we sing that song, I surrender all. Well, you know, from 2010 to 2015, I did not surrender at all. You know, it's very compartmentalized, as you said earlier. But the 12 steps got me to a point where I really could surrender my life and my will over to Jesus and completely and holy. But that, again, that's where, abundant life is found. Actually, half surrender is the worst place to be. You know, Revelation, being lukewarm is the worst, the absolute worst place to be. Actually, and I'll even say,

you know, before I was saved and I was atheist, my life was pretty good. Like, you know, I had things were going pretty well. It was that period of which where I was saved, but not surrendered. And that's when life really comes crashing down. And so, yeah, the 12 steps really got me to a point where I could fully surrender to Christ. and now I, yeah, now I am fully surrendered. It's like, it's, as you said, every day, all day. You know, I pray throughout the day. Now, I'm privileged to be able to pray with all of my patients before surgery.

I pray with them in clinic. Thank you. Yeah, well, you know, I can help men their physical bodies, but if I don't do anything to draw them closer to Jesus and help them their spiritual bodies, you know, I've really done nothing. And so I really am thankful to have that opportunity to do that. that. And I mean, that's what now I understand, you know, prior to me coming to Christ, all of my gifts, talents, and abilities, which God has given me, has given all of us in different

ways, and none are more important than any other. I would leverage that stuff for my glory. And now I've realized that, you know, I'm at, he's given me these gifts, talents, and abilities. He's given me these mission fields of patience, of highly scientific people, of atheists and things. that I am to glorify his name and draw everyone closer to Jesus. And so I'm really thankful to be able to do that today. And, you know, science does not discredit God. No. God can withstand the scrutiny of our intellect.

Yes, absolutely. That always makes me smile. I read somewhere that science is the way we figure out how God does things. Yeah. And I like that. Absolutely. I think your point is worth taking a minute with, that as you began your journey, the challenges in some ways became greater.

Yes. Jesus talks a lot about that, and it concerns me because I've spent my life in the church world, and it's a spectrum, people who come to church in their journeys and how they know God. And Jesus talked a lot about people who will say, Lord, Lord, and we did miracles in your name, and we did all of these things, and he'll say, you know, I don't really know who you are. Or there's a phrase that's used repeatedly through the God, about gnashing of teeth. And the way I understand it, in my opinion, so we could, but it represents a group of people

who were so close to the truth. They had exposure to it. They were aware of it. They had experience with it. But they chose not to accept it. And when the ultimate consequences then are made clear, the remorse, the grief is so great that the description is there was gnashing of teeth. There's a physical, visceral response.

And it concerns me for people in church. that we don't create the facade with such precision that we stay apart from the transformation that's available to us as Christ followers. We are cracked pots. Yes. And if I live to be 140, I hope at year 139, I'm still in process of being transformed

more completely into the image of Jesus. And I think your journey highlights that in a way that people can get to because you had so many of the things that we chase. You had the good places to visit and vacation and families and photos. And you found faith, and it's still a challenge. But it's a challenge with a merit that makes it worth the effort. Yeah, no, absolutely. And that's another one of the reasons I wrote the book is I see so many people who are saved yet stuck.

They're not surrendered and it just can't. And obviously it's a work of the Holy Spirit. it's going to be a work of God to move in their lives. And I just, I, I, I, I, I so want for them abundant life. I so do not want for them this mediocre life. And I just know where that's found now. Unfortunately, I think it's very hard to convince people of that until you've experienced it. But all we can do is, you know, keep following Christ and keep sharing the gospel and live it and show it and demonstrate it. You know, John Piper said, the happiest person you ever knew was his dad. and he also knew that the most connected person to Christ was his dad.

And he knew those two things went together. And so that's where we were to be the light. We're to reflect Jesus. And that's, you know, and not to say we don't have bad days, but we shouldn't be grumpy Christians. You know, the joy and peace is found only in him. And so to demonstrate that to the world and just show them, you know, and that's available to everyone.

And I so want that for everyone. Well, you know, one of the goals, on our podcast is always the what can we do peace? Because I don't believe church is primarily an informational thing. It's experiential into change behaviors. So maybe take a minute. If you could talk to the people listening to this who either themselves or they've got a friend or a family member who's in that intellectual bucket, you know, they're too smart for God.

They've figured life out and they know how to do it. What would you say to that person? What journey would you do? where would you point them to help them start to have a different perspective on God? Well, that's a good question, because I have many friends in my life were in that bucket. And you're talking about people who already believe or people who don't believe at all? A little bit of both. But you can choose the lane you want to speak to because you've been in both.

I've been in both. Yeah. Well, I think any type of. evangelism or drawing people closer to Jesus starts with relationship and, you know, just talking to them more about where their life is and where it's headed and, you know, and talk about the deeper questions of life. You know, what is your real purpose? And I think purpose is an important thing. That's good. And Jesus really, you know, demonstrated that for us. And my favorite way of looking at that is we're to be of maximum service to God and the people about us. And when you really look at Jesus's life, I mean, he was maximum service to God and humanity. So we can be a small part of that. And so I would, you know, I just talk to people and, you know, find, you know,

how really satisfied are you with your life, you know? And how, you know, what are your fears? What are your anxieties? and what do you do when those things happen? How do you react? Do you have peace in those situations? Do you have joy in all circumstances? And how do you face trials?

And what's your process through that? And I would just talk to them more. And really, I'm just trying to have God reveal to them their need for Jesus. and again, just and share my experience and share my walk with Jesus and how that he's transformed my life and just keep pointing people back to the truth. You know, one of my favorite quotes is from Gandhi, is this be the change you wish to see in the world. And so, you know, the more that I can reflect Jesus and the more that I can be a great disciple of Christ, then I think the better chance I have to have God reveal that to somebody.

That's good. I always like to talk to people about how they take their faith to work. I had a conversation a few weeks ago with Brad Arnold, the lead singer for Three Doors Down, and he started taking his faith with him into the concerts, and he'll take a few minutes. And I've watched some of those videos, and you feel kind of the tension. because he's Madison Square Garden and a rock show and starts to talk a little bit about Jesus. Yeah.

But he does it in such an authentic way. You feel the room relax and just on that little video. You mentioned that you pray with your patients. Yes. And I'm sure the nurses and everybody attending because you don't work just alone.

You work in a community all the time. Yes. They're exposed to those prayers. How did you arrive at that conclusion and how have you navigated that? Because everybody thinks that's okay. Oh, yeah. No, absolutely. And, you know, it's funny when people say, well, that's, that's really

courageous and bold for you to do that. Well, around here, it's really not. Like in Chicago or New York, maybe. But now I don't see that as, as, as, as, as, as some people think. But, you know, when people are, it started with people who are about to have surgery. And I know how much fear and anxiety people have, particularly about spine surgery. And, you know, and, you know, you know, I just felt that, I mean, I felt the Holy Spirit, you know, telling me you, this is a good opportunity for you to pray with them. And again, Jesus said, in me, you may have peace. So if I'm to bring them any amount of peace before surgery, you know, that is something that I can do. So, and yeah, when I started, it was a little strange. I was scared to death the first time I did it.

but now it's to the but you do that again God is just wants us to be obedient you know and I just so I prayed about it and you know I leave the outcome to him and so now now it's to the point where it's strange if I don't pray with people you know and I've had several people refuse for me to pray with them you know and that I respect that but and again I think it gets back to what I was talking about earlier is, you know, I can help mend their physical bodies, but I want to draw every person, every day, closer to Jesus in whatever way that I can.

And so praying with them beforehand is the way for me to do that. So I started just before surgery. And then my physician assistant, God sent me an amazing physician assistant. His name is Matt Gaston, and he's a Christ follower, and he's solid. and he was praying with all his patients in clinic. And so that convicted me. I said, okay. And in clinic, you know, you see 50 people and you're running around and all this stuff.

And so, but then I thought, you know, again, drawing every single person, every day, closer to Jesus. And so that's my opportunity to do that. And so I take advantage of that. And it's amazing to see, you know, and I've had some patients that I've had for years and I see and I see the work that God is doing in their lives, and it's amazing. It's, it's, it's, it's the abundant life, you know, it's, you see, when you can see what God is doing in other people's lives, and also, that's shared back with you, because a lot of times it's not. It's, it's so uplifting, and you just know that this is exactly what I was put on a cert to do.

That's awesome. And, you know, in that case, your whole team knows. Oh, yeah. Because they come to know that's a part of your care and protocol, and you impact that whole team, They then are going to impact the broader group over there. Oh, yeah. Both in your practice and the hospital both. Yeah, no, I had a friend of mine who was in the prison ministry here, and he was joking one day that one of the guards at the prison said,

oh, yeah, you're coming for the inmates. And he said, yeah, I'm coming to preach the inmates, but in his mind, he was like, I'm coming for you too. And so it is amazing. All around the hospital, everyone knows that I pray with my patients and stuff. And it is very interesting to me, you know, certain people who come in my operating, room and things like that who are are not Christian or, you know, clearly living away from God. But there's, there's a draw.

Like, actually, a lot of them like to be in my operating room, which I think is funny. But, I mean, it's it's the light. It's Jesus, drawing them in. And so I want to take, I want to make sure that, you know, I share the gospel and they know about Jesus. And they know that, you know, that my life is surrendered to Jesus. and that is why I am this way, and that's why I like to do, that's why everything runs the way that it does. Well, you have a lot more experience than I do, but in OR where the docs in charge, our Christ followers, can have a dramatically different tone than when that's not the case.

So that doesn't surprise me at all that the team would recognize that good work. Yeah, well, it's funny you mentioned that because, you know, I've had some scrub texts that were with me before. and then they were with me afterwards. And they've known me the whole time. And I've always been a pleasant person to be around. It's not as I was mean to them. But it was funny. One scrub tech in particular, another newer employee was saying to her,

oh, well, we can't listen to that in Dr. Shibiyama's room. And she was like, what? She's like, we used to listen to stuff like that all the time. Well, used to. Now the spirit won't allow me to do it anymore. That's awesome. Yeah. That is awesome.

Well, your book is happy, joyous, and free. That would be our prayer for everybody. Yeah, absolutely. My guest is Dr. Yura Shibayama. I thank you for taking the time and for your candor. You mentioned your pastor Brady. It's Brady Cooper at New Vision Church. Yes, yes.

Shout out to Brady. We need every good church. I'm grateful for every one of those outpost of light. Thank you for serving in the medical community. You're an encouragement to all of us. Hope you'll come back, give us an update. Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. I'd love to.

Thank you so much for having me. It's been an honor. Well, it's culture and Christianity, and we've had a primer today on how to take your faith to work. There may be voices in your environment that don't encourage that, but you can have the courage to do it in a respectful way, meaningful way, and a transformational way. It will change your life more than the lives of the people that you're praying with or praying for, but it does take a bit of courage. We need Christianity and the culture, or we will lose our freedom.

Glad you could join us today. Hey, thanks for joining me today. Before you go, please like the podcast and leave a comment so more people can hear about this topic too. If you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to Alan Jackson Ministries YouTube channel and follow the Culture and Christianity podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Together, let's learn how to lead with our faith and change our culture. I'll see you next time.