Culture & Christianity: The Allen Jackson Podcast - Are Transgender Athletes Destroying Women’s Sports? [Featuring Riley Gaines]

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

Should biological men who identify as “women” be allowed in women’s locker rooms and compete in women’s events? We live in a world where this is no longer a hypothetical question; it is a reality. Riley Gaines, a former competitive swimmer for the University of Kentucky, tied with male swimmer, Will “Lia” Thomas, in a women’s event. When he received the trophy she deserved, she could no longer remain silent. “All season we knew the unfair competition was wrong. We knew the locker room scene of having to undress and simultaneously exploit ourselves to a six-foot-four, fully grown, fully naked, fully intact man—we knew that was wrong. We knew the silencing that we were facing from our universities—we knew that was wrong … But it wasn't until this official reduced everything that we had worked our entire lives for—down to a photo op to validate the feelings and the identity of a man at the expense of ours—that’s when I decided I was no longer willing to wait,” Gaines stated. We are witnessing a war on women’s sports, and women’s safety is being jeopardized under the guise of “equality,” “acceptance,’ and “tolerance.” Listen to this podcast to discover how Riley Gaines became a voice for truth and how she continues to advocate for women’s rights in academic spaces. More Information:Riley Gaines among more than a dozen college athletes suing NCAA over transgender policies: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/riley-gaines-college-athletes-lawsuit-ncaa-transgender-policies/ Riley Gaines scorches transgender athlete Lia Thomas over recent remarks: https://www.foxsports.com.au/more-sports/riley-gaines-scorches-transgender-athlete-lia-thomas-over-recent-remarks/news-story/b4734ef60397374e4c6c40d7a3af9c69 Riley Gaines Book: Swimming Against the Current: Fighting for Common Sense in a World That’s Lost its Mind__ It’s up to us to bring God’s truth back into our culture. It may feel like an impossible assignment, but there’s much we can do. Join Pastor Allen Jackson as he discusses today’s issues from a biblical perspective. Find thought-provoking insight from Pastor Allen and his guests, equipping you to lead with your faith in your home, your school, your community, and wherever God takes you. Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3JsyO6ysUVGOIV70xAjtcm?si=6805fe488cf64a6d Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/culture-christianity-the-allen-jackson-podcast/id1729435597

They ended up holding me for ransom throughout the middle of the night, four or five hours, demanding that if I wanted to make it back home to Tennessee to see my family safely again, I'd pay them money. All the while, the police are being held for ransom with me. I'm looking at the police like, hey, pretty sure we're being held against our will, pretty sure we call that kidnapping. Isn't there something you can do? Well, welcome to culture and Christianity.

There is still a need to be paying attention and watching. what's happening in our world. We've got to watch, listen, think, and be prepared to act. And our guest today has been willing to do all of those things. Riley Gaines, we are delighted to have you on Culture and Christianity. Thank you for being here today. Well, thank you. As you know, I'm a huge fan of yours. It's so funny in the way that we actually got to meet because we were both on a plane, which is where I spend most of my time nowadays. So it's no surprise we met there, but really I just couldn't be more grateful to be on with you. So thank you. Well, we're honored to have you. We're both Middle Tennessee folks. That's the best place to be

from. For any of our listeners that have been living in a cave and perhaps don't know who Riley Gaines is, you are, we're a collegiate swimmer, University of Kentucky. And you got wrapped up or caught up into all of this discussion around transgender participation in collegiate sports. and you had the courage to use your voice. Can you give us just a quick synopsis of how all that emerged? I will. So you're right. I'm from Sumner County.

I grew up in Tennessee. I'm a proud Tennessean. Went off to University of Kentucky, which made a lot of Tennesseans mad. They like that stupid orange school that sings Rocky Top, which is just the most annoying song ever. But really, I went off to University of Kentucky. Couldn't have had a better experience there. Really, I very proudly finished my career as a 12-time NCAA All-American, a five-time SEC champion, actually the SEC record holder in the 200 Butterfly,

making me one of the fastest Americans of all time. Two-time Olympic trial qualifier, SEC scholar athlete of the year, SEC Community Service Leader of the Year. But again, just to reiterate, lifelong journey. So in general, just kind of an under-reture. achiever in athletics. Oh, totally. And everything I do, I guess.

Yeah, I can tell. I am, but it's a lifelong journey. You know, you understand. I don't have to explain the sacrifices, the time, the hours. You get it. Junior year of college, I ended up concluding my season by placing seventh in the country, which I was proud of. It was, it was, you know, it's an honor to be top eight, pretty high achievement,

all American status. but it wasn't my best time. So I knew I was capable of more. And so it was right then and there that I placed seventh in the nation my junior year that I set a goal for my senior year to win a national title, which would, of course, mean becoming the fastest woman in the country in my respective event. Right on pace to achieve this goal until this name appears,

a name that I had never heard of before, not me, not my teammates, not my coaches, none of us. And this is the first time we became aware of a summer name Leah Tom. Thomas, leading the nation by body links and multiple events, no history of this person. I'm so perplexed. I was confused, never even crossed my mind, quite honestly, that this could be anything other than a woman. And then I saw an article that disclosed that Leah Thomas is actually Will Thomas and swam three years on the men's team that you penned before deciding to switch to the women's, where, as you could probably. have guessed. He was mediocre. That's probably generous. He was less than average in his rightful category competing against the men, ranking in the 400s, 500s nationally to now dominating.

I mean, utter domination of Olympians, American record holders. I mean, the most impressive and accomplished female swimmers this world has ever seen. And so, lo and behold, the NCAA solved no problem with this. They announced that he would be allowed to compete in the women's category at our national championships where I watched as he won a national title. And then on that first day, and then the next day, we raced, dove off the water, swam eight laps of freestyle, touched the wall at the end, and almost impossibly enough. We had tied, meaning we went the exact same time down to the hundredth of a second, which is pretty rare, right, when you're racing for a minute and 40-ish seconds and not even

one-onehundredth separated us, which you can't. tell me that's not divine intervention. But anyways, we get out of the water, we go behind the awards podium, and this is what thrusted me over the edge to really reaching that point of, I mean, honestly how I felt in this moment was I felt ashamed. I felt guilty. I felt responsible. I felt compelled.

It's sad that it took this before I felt it necessary and worthwhile and urgent, quite frankly, to be able to say what everyone was thinking. but we go behind the awards podium. The NCAA official looks at both Thomas and myself. Thomas towering over me at 6'4 and this official says, great job you too, but you tied. And we only have one trophy. So we're going to give that trophy to Leah.

Sorry, Riley, you don't get one. And when I asked the dreaded question of why, the question no one dared ask all season. I said, okay, why? Why are you giving the trophy to the man? and the women's 200 free. He responded to me with, he looks sad. I could tell he didn't even believe what he was about to say,

but he said, Riley, I'm so sorry. But we have been advised as an organization that when photos are being taken, it's crucial that the trophy is in Leah's hands. Leah takes a trophy home. You go home empty-handed end of story. And that was the moment when, again, all season, we knew the unfair competition was wrong.

We knew the locker room scene of having to undress and simultaneously exploit ourselves to a six-foot-four, fully grown, fully naked, fully intact man. We knew that was wrong. We knew the silencing that we were facing from our universities. We knew that was wrong. Of course, we all did. But it wasn't until this official reduced everything that we had worked our entire lives for down to a photo op to validate the feelings and the identity of a man. at the expense of ours, that's when I decided I was no longer willing to wait. Tell me at that point that all of the women's rights groups and the feminist groups

and all those advocacy groups that we've heard about forever raise their voices to defend you. That's what I thought. That's what I thought was going to happen. And that's why I said why I wasn't willing to wait is because, honestly, that's who I expected to do something. I expected our coaches. I expected, I mean, just someone who, I guess, has historically protected women or whose job it was to protect us in that moment. And they were crickets.

I thought they would do something crickets. And not only crickets, actually, they are the ones leading the charge in dismantling our rights as women. It's so ironic. It's almost comical because, I mean, it's like objectively funny if you think about it because it's like an S&L skit or like a Babylon B headline or a South Park. episode, which is meant to be satirical and you're supposed to laugh at it. Now, right, which is the National Organization of Women, this is the group, the leading feminist group for the past 60, 70 years, they wore the hats, you know, all the things. They just released an article recently that called me a white supremacist patriarchist.

I don't even know what that means. I don't even know what that means. So even recently testifying before Congress, I was sat next to a woman. She was a witness the Democrats brought in who was the president of the National Women's Law Center. And in her opening testimony, she said that women should just learn how to lose more gracefully to men. That's what the feminists are doing, like Megan Rapino, Billy Jean King. They're pulling up the ladder behind them. You know, I read a little bit of that response from the National Women's Law Center.

And I had to smile. If I told this story in terms of kind of the critical thinking academia world, I would say that the patriarchal clan got together in some dark closet someplace and put together a plan to dismantle all the progress that women have made in the last 50 or 60 years. And we're going to put men into all the women's sports, but we're going to give them this label. So I would expect the women to be just, just losing their minds about it.

And in fact, they're playing right along with it. So the legal piece of this is Title IX, right? Which guarantees women's place, particularly in college athletics. That's right. And it's being dismantled by this pro-trans, LGBTQ plus whatever the day's version is. It has effectively been dismantled, not only dismantled. I mean, it's been abolished and its original intent. So, yeah, to your point, Title IX, it's the federal.

civil rights law that, I mean, people like my grandmother. I mean, it's not that old. People like my grandmother got to benefit from that prevents sex-based discrimination on any educational program that receives federal funding. 37 words in its original implementation, very, very brief paragraph, one word being activity, which allowed Title IX to be what it's most notable for, which is equal opportunity in sports. But now we have an administration in the White House who has actively rewritten Title IX. They took these 37 words, created a new proposal that's almost half a million words. Now 1,57 pages from 37 words, which, of course, there's a lot of fluff in there,

but in short, a very brief synopsis of what they've done is equate that word, sex, with gender identity, meaning they're synonymous. it's interchangeable even. And so women's, well, both male and female, sex-based protections have been abolished. Men do have full access to bathrooms, locker rooms, changing spaces, academic and athletic scholarships, dormitories, you can be housed in a dorm room with the boy. Your speech would be compelled. So now under this new rewrite, you are forced to use preferred but biologically incorrect pronouns.

And if you don't, under this new rewrite, you, you would be guilty in charge with sexual harassment. And all of this, there's been no vote in Congress about this. This is an executive order. This is like a divine fiat, as if we had a king ruling over us, who's undoing 50 years of legal precedent, intentional progress to give women opportunities. And it's been just totally unraveled by a stroke of the pen

and the cooperation of the media. That's it. Yes, this was an entirely elite. legal administrative rewrite of Title IX. He went through none. He didn't go through Congress. He didn't go through any of the necessary means to do what he has done, similar in the way that the student loan thing was handled. So we, there's a couple ways to push back. We're seeing now, of course, one is through litigation in the courts. 26 states are suing the Department of Education over this illegal administrative rewrite. One of those being Tennessee, we're very fortunate to have a phenomenal

Attorney General AG Scrametti, who has certainly been at the forefront. So we're seeing that, which is incredibly hopeful. Ten states have now been issued a preliminary injunction. So by August, when these rules come into effect, they don't have to comply. Again, one of those states being Tennessee. How's Kentucky doing? Hey, they're right in there. They also do not have to comply.

They were on the same suit. So it's Tennessee, Kentucky, Virginia, West Virginia. Ohio, Indiana, Montana, Mississippi, Louisiana, and maybe Idaho. So that's the 10 states, which is great news. Or we could see this being pushed back and this movement combated through Congress, which we are seeing. Representative Mary Miller has introduced a Congressional Review Act, a CRA. There's no doubt in my mind.

This will pass in the U.S. House, given the way the vote fell the first time, entirely on party lines and Republicans still do have the majority in the House for now. But I imagine it will get hung up in the Senate, which is exactly what happened last time. Well, I've followed your story a bit, and you've had the courage to go public with this, and not just take it and go quietly into the dark night. And you've been on college campuses and other places. First of all, I'm curious about kind of your peer group, your age group. How are they responding in general?

And I know it's a generalization, but are you getting support? Are you getting anger? What are you hearing from? Tons and tons and tons of support. There are a lot more sane, just level-headed, reasonable people than it's made out to be. People who understand intuitively that men and women are different. So there's a lot more of us than it seems. Not just intuitively, biologically, scientifically. You know, we were told to follow the science for a long, long time until it's not convenient. And then they just say follow your feelings. Exactly. But while the support is there, there's definitely a small, it's small fringe minority that is loud.

they are some of the most profane, intolerant, unwelcoming people you could possibly imagine. I have been met with, of course, the name calling, the petty personal attacks. But in many instances, I mean, violence. I've been spit on, I've had drinks poured on me, glass bottles thrown at me. I quite literally in San Francisco, which that was my first mistake going to San Francisco. But I mean, I was physically assaulted. I was being punched in the face by these men wearing dresses. They ended up holding me for ransom throughout the middle of the night, four or five hours,

demanding that if I wanted to make it back home to Tennessee to see my family safely again, I'd pay them money. All the while, the police are being held for ransom with me. I'm looking at the police like, hey, pretty sure we're being held against our will, pretty sure we call that kidnapping. isn't there something you can do to which they said, no, we're not allowed to do anything

because we're not allowed to be seen as anything other than an ally to this community or else we'll lose our jobs. So that side definitely does exist, but again, it's in a much smaller, a much smaller scale. But they tend to have disproportionate support in the media

so that their story is far more front and center. and even not just with the media in the sense of the news media, but with the entertainment industry in general, that seems to me that they push these initiatives forward. And they hide the hate and the violence. And it's not a tolerant community by any stretch of the imagination, it seems to me. No, no.

Again, this is the least tolerant. Again, it's almost ironic. They claim to be tolerant and accepting and welcoming and people who embrace diversity. tell you, they do not embrace my diverse thought. And yeah, it's virtually every realm. We have allowed, again, a very small percentage of the population, activists, really, into positions of power in corporate America. We are seeing it in academia. We are seeing it within the media, within our government, even seemingly spiritual leaders, which is why it's amazing to have people like yourself who do stand firm on the word.

of God and on scripture, which is very clear. It's very clear when God says he created male and female, intentionally and uniquely in his perfect image. It's very clear. And so they have virtually every realm of our society in a chokehold. And I just asked myself, I'm like, was I, you know, just turned 24 at the time when all this was happening. I was 21, 22 years old. And so I asked myself, okay, was I was I naive to what was going on? We didn't just reach this point we're at overnight. How did we get here? How did we get here? And I'm still

like, I'm perplexed by this question. And I don't know if I have, if I have the answer of how we got here. But man, it is, it is, it's a tough foul. Well, I can help a little bit with that. I think my generation failed in our assignment as gatekeepers. Because I went to Vanderbilt. We're going to talk about SEC schools. I was at Vanderbilt working on a graduate degree in their graduate department of

religion. And this language was prevalent decades ago. But at the time, to me, it seemed so removed from mainstream thought that I didn't really have to give it serious consideration. I just thought it was kind of the perversion of high-end academia. But now we're three decades on the other side of that. And we've trained generations of our professors and faculty members and administrators in this intellectual drivel, and it's dominating our universities. So that now anti-Semitism is celebrated, and LGBTQ ideas are celebrated to the diminishment of people who hold a different worldview, and then they call it tolerance. So I think you're reaping the whirlwind that got sown by the generations that preceded you,

and it's going to take some real courage. I have tremendous respect for your willingness to stand up and take the heat, name calling and the abuse and the physical threats. But I'm also hoping that we see a group of people rally around the values you're standing for. Because it really is a Judeo-Christian set of values. It's not something that's antiquated or out of date. You know, simple ideas like telling the truth that God created as male and female. And there is a difference, not lesser or greater, but different. And to come back and celebrate those differences and recognize the people who try to eliminate those or deny those are the individuals with a real problem. And I'm tired of the

manipulation of language. DEI is neither diverse nor actually advocating for equal treatment. They've got their thumb on the scale and they want to predetermine the outcome. And it's not just wrong. It's evil. It isn't compassionate. And I think we've got to come back to some fundamentals and you're doing such a good job with it, Riley. So tell me, you've learned. You've been in this battle now for more than a day. What do you know now that you wish you knew when you'd gotten out of the pool that day with the shock? Gosh, so much. I have just, I've learned so much, of course, about the political sphere, about civics. I mean, honestly, I knew nothing. I knew nothing about our government. I knew nothing about our civil process. I knew nothing. I never had to take a government

course. I never had to take history. It didn't interest me really at the time. So why would I, why would I care? Oh my gosh. I've learned so much there. All I knew at the time is we had three branches. I didn't know what they did. I still don't really know what they do. I don't even think they know what they do. Well, I'm sure the commander in chief at the moment doesn't, but that's another discussion. No, he definitely doesn't. So I've learned a lot there. And let me tell you, I am so secure with my stand now. And I wasn't at first. I was terrified.

I believed what I was told. We were told constantly. We would lose all of our friends. You will never get a job. Riley, you know, you're supposed to be in dental school. Well, you're never going to get into dental school if they know that you're a transphobe. They told us we would lose our scholarship.

The list goes on and I believed them. I had no reason to not believe them. I believed them when they told me it was respectful to use preferred pronouns. They said, Riley, this is what respect is. Don't you want to be kind? Don't you want to be inclusive? Which, of course, I want to be kind.

Who doesn't want to be kind? Who doesn't want to possess empathy or compassion? Those are wonderful in their true meaning. Those are wonderful traits. And so I went along with it for, I mean, several months. I found out who Thomas was in November of 2021. And I didn't speak out about this until I was personally negatively impacted in March of 2022. Again, that's why I say previously when I said I felt ashamed.

That's why I felt ashamed. I had festered. I let this knowing it was wrong. Of course, I never once believed it was fair or right or moral or just or anything like that. But I just thought to myself, what's really the harm? It's just a trophy. It's just a meet. And then I was negatively impacted.

And so I have learned so much there. I'm so firm. I've been spiritually just awakened. Now, I'm very fortunate to have, you know, two wonderful parents who took me to church every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, which is a drag when you're 10 years old and the youngest one in the congregation by at least 70 years. That was never overly fun. We went to a Church of Christ growing up and the congregation, the median age was probably age. with me included. But let me tell you, I'm so fortunate for that now.

I see so clearly how God works and how he moves and how he has his hand on me and how he provides me with an unworldly sense of strength and wisdom and protection and guidance and direction and discernment. I feel that, truly.

But just as clearly, I see how his opposition works and how he lies and how he deceives and manipulates and affirms delusions and how he moves through darkness. And who's the father of lies? It's very clear in spending more time in the word and getting more plugged in with my community, with my church now. It's very clear to me what we see.

Paul warns us. He tells us in Acts and Romans in different places that these spiritual battles will intensify and we'll reach a point where bitter as seen as sweet and dark as soon as light and evil as soon as moral, and it's undeniable that that's not where we're at right now. No, I think it's a gift. I'm sorry you've had to walk through such a storm, but the clarity you've been given at this season in your life is truly remarkable. And I just want to personally thank you for your courage and your boldness because your willingness to take that stand has been a rallying point for untold numbers of people. And I believe the fruit of that, we will celebrate

in the months and the years to come. So don't grow weary and doing good and don't listen to all the knuckleheads. There's more people that are for you than those that are against you. And at the end of the day, I think it's pleasing to God when we honor him. You know, evil is not a 21st century creation.

We are not the first generation of people to wander off in the weeds and lose our balance. But the Bible and the history of the church are the story of God who is redemptive. And if we have the courage to say, been wrong, he will bring us back to a place that's healthier. And that's the greatest gift we can give to our children and our grandchildren. No doubt about that, which is why I fight. So if we want to follow

Riley Gaines and what's happening with you, how do we do that? You can follow my Twitter or X account, I guess, which is Riley underscore Gaines underscore. I just released a new national bestselling book, which is, of course, a more in-depth account of what we faced, what's going on, how this is so much broader than just Leah Thomas, Will Thomas, how widespread this epidemic really is, the social contagion, every state, every level, every division, I mean, every sport, again, the broader implication of why this matters, what this means, where we're going as a society, and what we can do to combat it. And that is called swimming against the current

fighting for common sense in a world that's lost its mind. So those are probably the best ways. And I appreciate you, like I said, it's seldom to have spiritual leaders, leaders at all, but spiritual leaders especially who are unapologetic in standing for not just objective truth, which people see this topic,

and they think, oh, yeah, biological reality, it exists more importantly than fighting for objective truth as fighting for biblical truth. So I couldn't be more grateful for you. Well, we want you to come back in the months ahead as this story keeps unfolding and celebrate some of the victories that I'm quite confident are ahead. And I think your story is a lesson for all of us. You know, you spent your life training and became a world-class athlete. But then because of your courage to do the right thing, the impact of your life so exceeding, your athletic achievements.

And the end of that story is still being told. That sounds a lot like God to me. So Riley Gaines, I thank you for your courage and your boldness for the truth. You're the best. Pastor Jackson, thank you. This is culture and Christianity. You can make a difference if you're willing to stand for the truth. Even when the voice is telling you you're trashing your life,

usually those voices are trying to get you to kneel at the altar of comfort and convenience and capitulation. Don't do that. We'll stand up and honor God. honor God, then I believe he'll bless our lives. And Riley Gaines is a great example of that. God bless you. Tune in the next episode. Hey, thanks for joining me today. Before you go, please like the podcast and leave a comment so more people can hear about this topic too. If you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to Alan Jackson Ministries YouTube channel and follow the Culture and Christianity podcast on Spotify,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Together, let's learn how to lead with our faith and change our culture. I'll see you next time.