Culture & Christianity: The Allen Jackson Podcast - Exposing Evil in Education [Featuring Jessica Tapia]

Episode Date: June 21, 2024

Can you be terminated from your job for speaking the truth? That’s what happened to wife, mother, and former public school teacher Jessica Tapia while she was working in a Southern California district. "I had allegations put on me that the students crafted based off the Christian, conservative views they discovered that I hold—and they were outlandish," Jessica told Pastor Allen on this podcast. To keep her job, the district insisted she refer to students by their preferred pronouns, allow students to use bathrooms that aligned with their gender identity, and refrain from talking about her beliefs—at school and on social media. She knew following the district’s orders would mean denying her faith, so she refused to comply. Hear what happened when Tapia stood firm on the truth she knew and boldly upheld her biblical values—even when it came at a cost. More Information: Articles about Jessica Tapia's lawsuit with the Jerupa Unified School District: https://www.californiafamily.org/2024/05/california-teacher-fired-for-religious-beliefs-reaches-settlement/ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13422437/christian-school-teacher-fired-trans-student-pronouns-lawsuit.html __ It’s up to us to bring God’s truth back into our culture. It may feel like an impossible assignment, but there’s much we can do. Join Pastor Allen Jackson as he discusses today’s issues from a biblical perspective. Find thought-provoking insight from Pastor Allen and his guests, equipping you to lead with your faith in your home, your school, your community, and wherever God takes you. Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3JsyO6ysUVGOIV70xAjtcm?si=6805fe488cf64a6d Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/culture-christianity-the-allen-jackson-podcast/id1729435597

Another thing I had to do was forgive. I remember being on the phone one day with a Christian friend of mine just on fire for the Lord. And she said, Jess, have you forgiven the school district? Have you forgiven the students that have done this? And I just remember, like, coming to a halt and thinking, I have thought about the fact that I eventually need to do that, but I haven't done it yet. And at that point, I was still confused as to what decision to make. Was I going to put my head in the sand and follow the directives to save my salary? Was I going to resign and walk away, which would have been quitting?

Or was I going to face the giant and call out the evil and expose it and just fully surrender in obedience to the Lord? Today we face an overwhelming amount of negativity. From hostile politics to dysfunctional rants on social media, we need something to cut through the noise and remind us to the there's still good in the world. There's still hope. Pastor and author Alan Jackson is that voice of truth and courage. Through his inspirational new show, we can learn how to reset our focus, flourish in a time of fear, and be a source of light and hope in today's climate. It's time for a new perspective. Watch Alan Jackson now. Welcome to our Culture and Christianity podcast. I have some guests today. I'm really excited to be able to introduce you to you. I suspect you may have

heard the story in the news. It's had some airplay lately, but Jessica Tapia, welcome to our podcast, Jessica. It's good to have you. Thank you so much, Pastor Allen. It's a blessing to be on. And then we also have Bob Tyler, who is the chief advocate for Advocates for Faith and Freedom. And your story goes together. We'll kind of unpack it a bit in tandem. But welcome, Bob. It's good to have you today. Thank you, Pastor. Good to be with you. Jessica, for people who don't know, you are a resident of California and were a teacher in the public school system. Correct. Yes. The Lord called me into teaching. He made that clear, actually, when I was in college, I was on my way to become an occupational therapist. And right when I was supposed to start my doctorate program for that, I was getting married. And the program was like, ooh, you might not want to start school and try to enjoy. you know, getting married in a honeymoon. And so they held my acceptance for that program. And I was like,

well, what do I do for a year? Because I'm a very like, go, go, go, let's get it done type of person. And someone said, you can substitute teach with your bachelor's started doing that. And immediately, it was made clear that I was being called to become a teacher. So I went to California Baptist University here in Riverside, California for a total of seven years to get my bachelor's teaching credential in master's in education, went right back to the school district that I came out of as a student, actually to the high school where I met my husband and was teaching there when in the last part of my sixth year of teaching, I was a ten-year teacher. This all went down. And this whole, I mean, it ended up being a controversy and you lost your job over it,

and that's how Bob got into the story. We'll tell a bit of that. But some of your stories, students really brought an issue. They were looking at some of your social media online. Correct. Yes. So actually about really two years ago, almost to the tea, well, it was May of 2022. I had walked into Coles. And so, of course, they're gearing up for Pride Month. And I just was blown away by all the Pride gear that I was surrounded by that day in Coles. But that day, I also learned they're making these T-shirts and onesies for toddlers and babies that say pride and have all the different pride slogans. And I just remembered that moment, like, being hit so hard with the fact that this darkness has now, like, it's not enough. It's not

content in the adult realm. It's now coming on the children. And so I made a video and I wanted to let, you know, the little following that I had at that time know, like, this is what's in coals. This is what they're making for kids and babies now. And, you know, we should really think about where we spend our money and the values we support when we spend our money places. So students found that video. They actually air dropped it across campus and of course turned it into I'm hateful, I'm disrespectful, I'm transphobic, homophobic, all the words I've heard. From there, though, it really sent them on a hunt on my Instagram page. And they actually went to my Jesus highlight on my Instagram page where I have quotes from,

pastors I follow or, you know, Ali Best Suckie or just a verse I've posted. And they sent in seven to eight screenshots of literally Bible verses and quotes of my faith along with that video to the district. And they basically said, like, we feel disrespected and discriminated against by Mrs. Tapia and do something about it. So that immediately put me off on leave. They started investigating. And of course, I'm just thinking, like, investigate what? I've not done anything in my role as a teacher, you know? So from there, I had allegations put on me that the students crafted. Now, based off the Christian conservative views, they've discovered that I hold.

And they were outlandish. One of them was that I broadcast sermons to my classes, which I've never done. But I let the district know, I'm a PE teacher. There's one day a week that I let the students listen. to something while they do their running activity. And I have my phone in my pocket just loud enough for me to listen to my worship or a podcast of my choosing. So if a student walked by me on the track, they might have heard, hallelujah, Jesus is Lord. But I never said, gather around, come listen to Sunday's sermon. But these were the claims being made about me. So I respond to all of those. And the district

decides to just barely allow me to come back to work. But now I'm to follow. a plan of assistance and directives. So this was the moment, my second meeting, where it just felt like life came to a halt because I learned that to keep my job, I was going to have to now refer to students by their preferred pronoun or gender. I was going to have to withhold that information from parents,

which of course I clarified, are you asking me to lie to parents? And they said yes, for student safety and privacy. And then thirdly, and I don't usually bring this one up too often in podcasts, but I think it's fitting for this one. I was being asked to refrain from speaking to students about God or the Bible. And that's another claim that was made, and I let my district know. If a student comes to me with a question, which they do, I answer it. I'm allowed to answer it, not proselytizing, not preaching, but they have come to me and they've simply said,

Mrs. Tapia, where do you go to church? what Bible verse is your favorite? You know, what worship song do you like? And so I answered those, but they were telling me from here on out, you refrain and you tell them it's not the time or the place. So that, of course, broke my heart. That's unbelievable. Excuse me.

It's not that I doubt you, but in the United States, to have a school district and school officials dictating to you that you should lie to parents about their own children. children and then explicitly applying censorship in answering the questions of the kids. Because those are normal conversations between students and teachers. That's not a recruitment initiative or, you know, you're not doing evangelism in the classroom. We have to pay more attention. This is bizarre. Unfortunately, I don't think it's unique.

But I know I interrupted, but some things are just too bizarre to go past. No, you're right. And if we really compare those two things, right, where teachers are expected to and they are doing this, where they're having private conversations with a student about the student's chosen gender identity, like that private conversation, I'm being told now, is allowed to take place. But on the other hand, I cannot converse when a student comes to me and just wants to know what church I go to or what Bible verse I know. or whatever other innocent question they have, because students are smart, and they can gauge who their teachers are and what their morals and values are. And so my students have gauged that in me. They always have in the six to eight years,

if you include substitute teaching, that I've been there. I've always gotten those random questions about the Lord. And so, yeah, it was very bizarre to all of a sudden, be told no more. And so that was my second meeting, And that is the moment where life came to a halt for me. And I didn't know what to do.

But they were wanting me to come back that Monday and go to work under this plan of assistance and directives. And I was also going to be watched closely for 45 days to see change of behavior. And that was another thing that really got me because there was no way I was going to change. I was going to continue to be the same great teacher I've always strived to be. So I was very convicted and a little bit confused. And my mom said, hey, you can go on stress leave. And I'm so glad that was advised to me because that's what I did. I went on stress leave for three months, taking the time to discern what to do next. And I was in prayer and I was seeking counsel from several people and really just wanting to make the best decision in God. eyes here. And so that required me overcoming a few things in those three months of stress leave. And the first one was my salary. It was like haunting me for a good while. And I had to realize like the number was stuck in my head because I had this thought of we're not going to survive without it. We live in

California. We need those two incomes, you know. And so I had to realize that that'd become a strong hold. and I had to break that and get that out of my head to move forward and find clearly what God was calling me to do. And another thing I had to do was forgive. I remember being on the phone one day with a Christian friend of mine just on fire for the Lord. And she said, Jess, have you forgiven the school district? Have you forgiven the students that have done this? And I just remember, like, coming to a halt and thinking, I have thought about the fact that I, eventually need to do that, but I haven't done it yet. And at that point, I was still confused as to

what decision to make. Was I going to put my head in the sand and follow the directives to save my salary? Was I going to resign and walk away, which would have been quitting? Or was I going to face the giant and call out the evil and expose it and just fully surrender in obedience to the Lord. And so those looking back are the things that I realized I had to do those things to really clearly hear from him. And then I eventually did. And I remember just like literally feeling on fire for what to do next, which was to simply let the school district know, I'm ready to come back to work and do my job. But there are a few things, few directives you've given me that I cannot comply with. I listed those out in an email. I spoke from my faith when I said why I wouldn't be able to

lie to students, lie to parents, and even lie to myself. And that's when they said, well, it sounds like you're asking for a religious accommodation meeting. Come on in and we'll see if and how we can accommodate your religious beliefs. So I went into that third and final meeting. And this was January of 2003. And I was questioned up and down on my Christian faith. It was like nothing I've ever been through before. Where do I go to church and what do I read and how? often and what is it about my faith that says I can't do these things. They're asking me to do. And I could definitely feel in that meeting they were presenting me with different situations and scenarios to see if I would bend a little, if I would give a little in this situation and change up the answer I had already given them, which was no, I won't do these things. So I stood firm and at the end of that a few days later, I just, received an email that says it was a long email, but essentially at the end in writing, they put, we cannot accommodate your religious beliefs. Therefore, we're releasing you from

employment, January 31st, 2023. Wow. Well, you said some things that I think are really important and I don't want them to get lost because there's so much emotion that I have when I hear you tell your story. And I don't want to lose some of these points in the emotion because I think it's really important. We encourage people so often to lead with their faith. That's one of the themes of what we do. And I think you have modeled that beautifully. So if I don't say anything else, thank you. Thank you for taking your faith. But the conflict began because students brought it forward of who you were in your private life. It wasn't something you were bringing to the classroom or trying to push on your students. You were sharing your faith. But I was intrigued when you said

you were trying to decide what to do and how to process what was next. And you didn't really seem to have clear direction yet. And the Lord reminded you you needed to forgive. Yes. And when you were obedient to the things you knew to do, you got clarity on what was next, both internally and externally. They stepped in and brought clarity.

And I think that's such an important lesson. We want God to solve our problems without us having to be different or practice what we know. And what I hear you saying was you honored your faith in your life. It got you pulled into a very difficult place. And you had to practice your faith when it wasn't convenient or fun. It wasn't emotionally pleasing. I don't like to forgive people that are mistreating me. I like to forgive people that are apologizing.

But you forgave them and it brought you to a point of freedom. Yes, it did. And ultimately, too, it made me realize what is this all about? what is it in the end that you are living for? Are you living for this lawsuit and what you might get out of it, what law might be changed, what settlement might come, or are you living for the souls of people? And so that largely grew or that largely encouraged that want to forgiveness because in the end, I don't care about the money or the victory in court. I want souls to go to heaven. And so who knows, right? We do not know. I don't know. Bob doesn't know. We don't know what this lawsuit,

what this case could have done or could still be doing in the hearts and souls of those who have been involved, the people at the school district, their legal team. So going through all of this, it really, really, yeah, challenged my faith like never before. And it made me have to ask myself hard questions. Is this what you believe in? And do you really believe it? Because if you do, then you will make this next decision. And even if it doesn't make sense to the rest of the world.

Well, and I'm still, you know, when they came back in, the accommodation they're asking you to make is to lie to parents and to deny your faith. And that's just absurd. I mean, we wouldn't do that to, I can't imagine we would do that to any other subset of our culture. to deny their heritage of their faith and then lie to parents. That's not the... So, Bob, you got pulled into this narrative. You went and got the white horse out of the barn and came riding to the rescue. Tell us what caused you to pick this up

and why you saw a perspective that you thought could be worthwhile. Well, Alan, first, I'd like to just say that we've got some great lawyers here in our team. and Julianne of Fleischer, Fletcher actually, was the lead lawyer on this. She's one of my lawyers that works for us. And when Jessica called us, I quickly realized that what we're dealing with is a situation that if we allow this to stand,

then no teacher, no Christian teacher, who lives out their faith, is going to be qualified to teach in public schools in California. nor any other person of faith who holds traditional values as to God created us male and female. And so in looking at this, we just realized that we need to step forward. And we need to take a stand because what this case is about, it's about whether Christians really will be able to stand in the workplace, be able to continue their professions, whether it's a teacher.

We have prison guards right now who are dealing with situations. There are all sorts of professions and careers. We have pastors dealing with us. Yes. It's absolutely shocking. And so that's why we believe that we have to come and stand against this strong delusion. Frankly, I think we're seeing that strong delusion spoken of throughout the New Testament, that Christ himself spoke up.

We are now in this era where there is such confusion that to imagine that you are not qualified for a job, for a career, for a political position, if you're a Christian. And we're going to fight back. And as long as the Lord Terry's, we need to take a stand as Christians. And, you know, Al, I want to thank you. you and so many other pastors that are standing up and saying, I'm not going to worry about my 501C3 status. And I'm going to take a stand because we have Christians out there that need to spread the gospel,

that need to live out their faith. And I'm going to speak out against issues like these transgender mafia who's coming out trying to silence everyone else but their own view. But you guys are standing up. And, you know, if you don't take a stand, encourage your congregation to take a stand, pretty soon you're not going to have a congregation because most of your Christians aren't going to be qualified to get jobs anywhere. So, you know, we at large as a community of Christians, as the majority in this country,

we need to step up and we need to stand for what is right. Because our ultimate goal, and even as a lawyer, our underlying. principle is we stand on the First Amendment so that we can preserve the First Amendment right to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's why we exist. Amen. Well, all of us that exist for that. That's not whether we're a butcher, a baker, or a candlestick maker. If you're a Christ follower, our primary life assignment is to take the good news of Jesus that changed our destiny and our journey through time and share with anyone who will listen. Right. This notion that our Public schools are value neutral.

It's just absurd because our academic system is not value neutral. They're very aggressive in their advocacy for DEI or critical theory or, you know, these emerging ideas about marriage and human sexuality. I mean, they don't even pretend to be neutral on those issues. And while they advocate for tolerance and diversity, they're very intolerant and unwilling to embrace the diversity that the Christian community and the Christian voice and the historical, biblical worldview brings to the table. And it's going to require people, Jessica, with the kind of courage that you're living out. I would applaud, but on the microphone, that's not helpful.

But I think you represented your faith. And it wasn't simple. I mean, if I understood the timeline right, that you were out of work for about a year. So it was seven months in total from when they reported me to when I was fired. And then from there, after being fired, it took a few months for us to file lawsuit. We filed lawsuit in May of 2023. And then exactly one year later, we came to our settlement victory. So that's months of stress. So you had a settlement.

You got to a triumphant place. Mm-hmm. That is so good. So are you teaching now? I'm teaching my own children. I have a six, four, and two-year-old. So I am home, homeschooling, and I truly believe it's just one of the many, many ways that the Lord has taken what was meant for evil upon me and turned it for good because I remember being at work thinking, what am I going to do for my own children's education? because I don't want them in public school. I've seen the inside of that.

And I would ideally love to homeschool them, but that's not possible because I'm here teaching other people's children during the day. And so it was really crazy to see right when my oldest became kindergarten age, that's when this all went down. And I was kind of sitting at home waiting to see what was going to happen with my job. And I just started teaching her. And so I'm going to just continue carrying it. hearing that out homeschooling. But myself and advocates for faith and freedom have also come together

to launch teachers don't lie. It's an organization slash campaign where we truly believe there is a strong message in my story and in this settlement victory. And we just want every teacher across the nation to know that they don't have to lie either. Because so many are actually getting pushed out or resigning because I get the messages from so many teachers. that are saying the very policies that you spoke out against and got fired for refusing to comply with, those are the reasons I left teaching. I just left. And the thing about that is, and I understand, because I had half of a resignation letter written, but I didn't feel the peace about that, and I could never seem to finish it either. But the thing about that is if all the Christian teachers, right,

are walking away because of these directives and policies surrounding lying, What are we going to have left in our school systems teaching our children? That's a scary thought. I agree, but I would hope, Bob, that a decision like this would provide some precedent that would help the teachers in the system. Is that true? This case, in and itself, we did not get a decision from a judge. The school district decided on their own to settle based upon the merits of our case. And they paid out a substantial sum of money.

And so this is what I like to think is very influential precedent in that school districts are going to have to recognize that if they're going to tell a Christian teacher, you're not qualified because you're a Christian or you hold Christian worldviews. Then we're going to sue them and they're going to be held liable financially. Now, you know, there's a lot of people who have left California, many who are just in your hometown there now. Allen and so many other people that have left our state for Tennessee, Texas, Arkansas, Florida, and they're leaving for these states thinking, we're going to be protected. We're going to go over there. But I can tell you, that's not the case. And I ensure you know very well out there in your neck of the woods.

There are issues in schools. And what we're dealing now with is a federal issue. So that's why teachers don't lie. People can go to Teachers Don't Lie.com. It's a landing page on our website at Advocates for Faith and Freedom. It's a place where we want teachers and frankly people of other professions as well, but we've been focusing on teachers to say teachers call us because what we want to do, if you have a similar situation of what's occurred with Jessica,

we're going to push back because we need you in the schools. Christian teachers, we need you there with that influence. And we want to help you stay in that school district. And if necessary, we will file lawsuits. And we'll do so all over the country because we want to help our kids because this is the bedrock for the future of the United States is having children who have common sense, who are not taught the socialist, communist ways and the demonic ways that we're seeing. if we allow the National Educators Association, these radical left, the Biden administration to come in and force their views on our children in public schools, the future is grave. Well, it is great, but I don't think we can hang at all on Biden and his administration.

We've been training teachers for decades now. You're right. And these ideas, and we have been turning them loose into our academic institutions. And so it's going to take more than a day or a week. I want to kind of close this out with some ideas on what we can do. Jessica, we want to support our public schools and we want to support our teachers in schools everywhere. You have lived in the middle of this. What can we do to stand with those teachers and help them maintain their biblical worldview

without the kind of persecution you had to face? I think letting them know that they're not alone, first and foremost, because you're your Christian conservative teacher right now with the darkness that has infiltrated the public school system, they do feel alone and unseen and scared. And they feel like they do, they just need to do, as I said, whatever their boss is asking them to do to save their salary. And so I think really just rallying around them and letting them know that even if it comes to the point where they are putting their job and their salary on the line, that is the best thing that they could do. Because now they're truly surrendering it all to the Lord. And I mean, I can testify to the fact that when we do that, he is going to do far more than we could have thought or imagined.

And I can't even, it would be a whole other podcast to tell you all the things that he has done with my story, with this victory, and just all the ways he's impacted so many lives and so many teachers. And I see teachers becoming more emboldened. And I'm excited about that. So I think, as I said, just rallying around them in this time and then, you know, making sure they do know about teachers don't lie because we can be that community for them too. We can be there to help them write that religious accommodation meeting when they are being asked to do something, to follow a policy, to present some sort of material, to lie to a parent. We can be there. That's when we can step in to provide some sort of demand letter or whatever it may be to begin pushing back. and letting that school district know, no, no, no, no, we have rights to.

We have rights to our freedom of speech and our religious liberty, and we don't just bow down to your agenda and your religion. Well, I heard you volunteer, and I accept that second podcast. I'd love it. We'll get that on the schedule. But I want to thank you, Jessica. It's a wonderful story to remind us that there are victories in the midst of the conflict. and that when you find yourself,

God provides people like Bob and the advocates for faith and freedom that will stand up and stand beside you and help you walk through that. I look forward to coming back and hearing the rest of the story, but you identified something that I think really is at the root of this, and you and Bob have both alluded to it, it's the fear that is so prevalent.

And the reality, and I hear it on a weekly basis, if not a daily basis from the people that I'm doing life with, because they'll come up and whisper to me, whisper to me, Thank you for your courage or we're concerned for your safety. And I want to be sure that people listening understand how bizarre that is. We should be able to stand in the public square or in our place of employment or our neighborhood or a public school or any government institution or any hospital and talk about our biblical worldview. You know, it doesn't make us filled with hate to say we believe Jesus is the way the truth and the life. that is the perspective of scripture

or to say that God created us male and female or that marriage was God's idea. I mean, all of those things are fundamental, simple, biblical ideas and the thought that our status as a church would be threatened or your employment as a teacher would be threatened because you embrace those kind of ideas is bizarre. Those are not political statements. Those are biblical statements.

And they're used as weapons against us. And I think for the general public, we've got to overcome our fear. Jessica, you have modeled this for us in a beautiful way. And I'm going to try to find a little more courage after thinking about your story a little bit. Oh, thank you so much. I do have to say when it comes to fear, that's if I had to say one thing that drove me to making the decision I did is I had to ask myself or tell myself, I know you're scared right now. facing your superiors, facing these directives, facing potentially the loss of your salary,

but what do you fear more? Who do you fear more? And so I really, really began for the first time ever to hone in on fear of the Lord. And that's when I learned when we fear the Lord, we hate what's evil. We can receive wisdom. I mean, the Bible, throughout the Bible,

it talks about what comes when we focus on fear of the Lord. And so we can be scared of the things in our life and going on in culture, but our fear of the Lord needs to come above all of that. And that's how we can have that clarity to move forward and that courage to act and obedience to the Lord alone and not please man. Amen. That's good preaching. You help. I listen to you during the week, so you help. You and Pastor Jack.

Douch. Well, we have to lead with our faith. And we don't have to be angry. We don't have to be belligerent. We certainly don't have to be violent, particularly when I think about the children in our schools. And when we stand up on behalf of the children,

whether we're talking about the unborn or the kids that are in school. I think it's pleasing to God. I know it's pleasing to God when we protect the children. And so we don't have to do it in anger. We can do it with a determination to honor the Lord.

And if we will do that, I expect God will step into either and he certainly stepped in and has helped you. And I am trusting him to help us in our schools across this nation. We need his help. Amen. Jessica Tapia, we thank you for your courage. And Bob, for you and the advocates for faith and freedom, don't grow weary.

God is moving and we want to be faithful. Amen. That's our culture and Christianity podcast for today. You keep leading with your faith, and we will trust God to continue to bring the victories for his glory and particularly to help protect our children. Bless you all. Hey, thanks for joining me today.

Before you go, please like the podcast and leave a comment so more people can hear about this topic too. If you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to Alan Jackson Ministries YouTube channel and follow the Culture and Christianity podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Together, let's learn how to lead with our faith and change our culture.

I'll see you next time.