Culture & Christianity: The Allen Jackson Podcast - How Progressivism Infiltrated the Church—and How She Exposed It

Episode Date: September 25, 2026

What happens when a Christian journalist starts digging into the forces shaping the evangelical church? Megan Basham, Christian author and journalist, joins Pastor Allen to discuss the research behind her book Shepherds for Sale, what she uncovered about progressive and secular influence in Christian institutions, and the ways fear of man and cultural pressure can lead to compromise. She also opens up about her cancer journey and the perspective it has given her on suffering, faith, and standing firm in what matters most. This is a powerful conversation about journalism, courage, faith, and the battle to preserve a biblical worldview.

If everyone is speaking well of you, particularly everyone who is powerful and wealthy and in those highly influential positions, maybe that should be a gut check moment. What am I compromising on that all of these people who do not love the Lord? If they're all speaking well of me, why? You know, it's true that Jesus did preach some messages that were about tolerance, but it was not his life message. We want to succeed in the context of what's pleasing to God, not what's celebrated by the pagan culture around us. In a very real way, we are the last people standing in the way of their agenda. As long as we are restoring some of these important Christian institutions, then I'll happily take some slings and arrows. Well, welcome to culture and Christianity.

This is the podcast version, not the conference version. We'll share the conference version with you at another time. But I am really excited today. I have somebody, I've read an author that I've read the book and celebrated the book and follow. on X and just it's heroes maybe a little over the top. But Megan Basham, we are really excited to have you today. Thank you. Oh, gosh. Well, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. I'm just, I'm thrilled with the lineup you've put together and all the work you guys are doing here. So just a joy to be with you. Well, Megan's here to be a part of the conference, but she graciously agreed to

give us another bit of time so we could do this podcast and you could get some extra conference material. but the book that you wrote, Shepherds for Sale, I want to start with that, because New York Times bestseller, I mean, you had a lot of success across platforms, not just a Christian book, but not an easy book. I mean, you did a lot of research. It wasn't just your opinion. It wasn't a personal testimony. You did research on the state of American Christianity,

and what you came out with wasn't completely flattering. Yeah, no, it wasn't. And I did not, maybe naively, quite expect it to be the lightning rod that it was. So, you know, I feel like just now, probably a couple years after the release, am I really coming to terms with the reactions that it got both positive and negative? Well, there had to have been pushback because you named names. I mean, you did the research. It was a reporting effort.

It wasn't muckraking. You were doing some investigative journalism. Yeah. And I think, you know, maybe that was the thing that when I talk about, naivity, I did not realize that I was doing such an unusual thing because I had come out of Christian journalism and conservative journalism. And when you're a journalist and a reporter, that's what you do. You have to be specific about the who, what, when, where, and why. And so to me, it was just a natural thing that if I was going to put forward this thesis,

I needed to be able to support it with specifics. So I needed to be able to show, you know, here are the people who are getting involved with some of these second. left organizations, here's the money that they're taking, here are the organizations that they're setting up with this money. And so to me, that was just a natural thing to do, was to sort of lay out all this information. But I somehow did not realize that in Christian publishing, that was fairly unusual to do something like that. And so, you know, when I put forward the thesis and and then supported it with, you know, these various citations, I think that was the thing that made people so angry on some of these people that I specifically cited. I think if I had not done that,

it probably would have been more roundly cheered across the board because then all of these institutions could have pretended you're not talking about us. They could have been like, yes, golf clap, we should clean up and not take this funding and not allow this influence because all of them could have said, she's talking about someone else. But they couldn't do that when I said who I was talking about. Right. And I mean, the big premise was that there was a lot of money spent to influence the perspective being shared through these Christian principally publishing spaces. Yes. And so what it was really about was how various pastors and ministries and evangelical leaders,

yes, some were taking money, but there are other kinds of currency. And, you know, there was kind of a lot of focus on the title. Well, if you said Shepherds for sale and everyone in this book didn't show up at the railroad tracks at midnight to take a bag of cash, then your reporting wasn't truthful. Like suddenly we didn't know how symbolism works or metaphor works. And, you know, the thing that I was putting forward is that, yes, part of the book was about those kind of financial transactions, but also about fear of man, cultural accommodation, and other ways that we can see evangelical and Christian leadership compromising.

So, you know, the money trail was just part of it, but there was a broad swath of different kinds of compromise because there are so many. secular and progressive movements and organizations that want access to us as Christians. Because in a very real way, we are the last people standing in the way of their agenda. And so if you're going to overcome that agenda, you have to find a way to target that audience. And that's the way they've been doing it. Right. The two pieces that I thought, one was the compromise on the Christian side where we could be

manipulated with the right motivation. And the other was the intentional intent. to change the messaging, you know, from the progressive, liberal, whatever label you want to use. I speak to a lot of churches or church leaders or pastors groups, and, you know, people will say to me, well, why won't my pastor deliver this message? And it's the same challenge. In most local congregations, the pastor's an employee called by the presbytery, the board, some administrative group, and they control the messaging. If he veers outside of whatever they're approved, lanes are, they come for him. I mean, I know that because they call me with some frequency

and saying, I'm in trouble because I advocated for this. And if we want to change our churches, we have to change the hearts of the leadership in the churches. You know, we can't give authority to people that don't hold a biblical worldview. So there is a, it is so widespread and it's so commonplace. And I was so grateful for the lights you turned on because it was helpful and you documented it. So it wasn't like a personal attack. It was just a revelation of the reality of what's unfolding. Yes. And part of the reason that I felt like I had to do that, Alan, and I absolutely believe that it was a God thing, you know, that I never set out to become a controversial writer or a reporter. It was really just what I experienced as an ordinary Christian mom out there. And I started

going, wait, Lord, I feel like some of this ideology that is coming into, you know, our own church at the time and the Christian school we were at, I was hearing things that I went, this is not biblical, Lord. Where is this coming from? To give one example that I very frequently cite, but was we got an email from our children's ministry director at our then church. And this was in 2020, maybe early 2021, telling us how we could talk to our kids about. their white privilege. And like, these were the moments that I went, Lord, this is not biblical. And, you know, then you would give the email and you felt like you would get sort of the churchy speak. And I'm like, churchy is different from biblical. And that was what I wanted to confront. Like,

how have we made these assumptions based on Christianese terms that are not actually scriptural terms? And so, you know, that was so much of what I wanted to examine. And then what was interesting is when you quoted people directly. And some of them, you know, were leaders that I benefited from in other ways. But if you take someone like the late Tim Keller who, you know, had some good teaching, but also, you know, when he wrote for, say, the New Yorker that an evangelical witness was being destroyed because we voted for Trump, that was a very political statement. And it was so strange to me to have this evangelical estate. that was saying the people who are saying that making the most moral choice that they can with

their vote, meaning I'm going to make the choice that protects babies, that protects, you know, gender confused children, that this was destroying our witness. I went, that is a level to me of being politicized, not the people who are making a pragmatic, but also faithful decision with their vote to say, I'm going to do the best that I can as a representative, because we are, we're in charge of the government in the United States. So as a very small representative of this government, I am going to do the best that I can with my vote. And I was really bothered by seeing all of this guilt and shame

heaped on ordinary Christians in the pews for making these reasonable decisions. Well, as an observer, I think of courage as a muscle and that if you exercise it like any muscle, you gain strength. And you have continued to take on some difficult topics and use your voice in the public square. I'm sure you get a bit of pushback on that. Just a little.

I don't know a lot about your spiritual background, but what prompted you to be willing to take that space? You know, one, I think was providential ignorance, if I can put it that way. That's good. I didn't really know what I was waiting into at the time. So I think that's a part of it. I also think, you know,

I have to give a lot of credit to my husband. Because when I started to speak about these things. You know, my husband was kind of the one going, say what you got to say because we don't rely on your income. You know, we had always sort of set up our finances and my work when my girls were littler, you know, we have two daughters and when they were smaller, I worked very part-time and then as they got older, you know, my ability to do a little bit more expanded. But we always kind of set up the parameters of let's not structure our lives so that if you lost your job, you know, it would create any hardship in our, I mean, you know, we'd have to economize,

but there would be, no, we can't make the mortgage, you know, this month. And so I think that was really wise of my husband because suddenly it was like, what's the worst that can happen? I get fired, you know? And so there wasn't a real threat there. So I think that's part of it, too, was just I happened to be in a position where there wasn't really a lot that could be done to me if I did continue to speak out. You know, this podcast is made possible because of sponsors.

And one of our sponsors is preserve gold. And I appreciate their partnership with us. And I pray it's a blessing to you. You know, one of the things that I hear most often right now is this, that people are doing their best plan for the future, but they're not sure what to trust anymore. You know, the headlines, they change every day. And the economy, it feels pretty unpredictable.

And that uncertainty, it's unsettling to all of us. But as people of faith, we're not called to live in fear. We're called to live with wisdom, with discernment, and with peace. Well, part of that is simply taking practical steps to protect what you've worked so hard to build and establish for yourself and your family. That's why many are turning to time-tested assets like gold and silver, not as a reaction, but as a way to bring stability into their financial plans. Well, if you'd like to learn more, I encourage you to connect with preserve gold. They've helped many people understand how to diversify their savings with physical gold and silver, including in retirement accounts. And right now, you can get their free wealth protection guide by texting Allen, it's A-L-L-E-N to 50-505.

Plus, with a qualified purchase, you can receive up to $15,000 in free gold or silver. Well, if you want to learn how precious metals could help protect your savings, text Allen to 50505 today. you'll receive your free wealth protection guide. You know, one of the advantages are the outcomes of shining the light into places is it brings chances for realignment and improvement. And I like to find the God stories or the things that are happening. Where have you seen positive changes come from using your voice and telling the truth and calling out bad?

Have other people rallied to you? How does that work? I mean, it's been both. You know, I've had certainly a lot of people rally. and, you know, certainly a lot of people who have done. And I think this is the typical approach. The gatekeeping approach of the establishment is when you criticize them. The move is then to try in every way possible to depict you as disreputable in some way.

And that is difficult. So you sort of have to armor yourself and be prepared for it. That that's what's going to happen. But. I want to discredit the messenger. Exactly. So, you know, I could give you a lot of examples, but they would do things like,

pour through my footnotes and find, you know, one example, like with Phil Vischer, the creator of Veggie Tales, who had made a lot of comments that were very unclear about his position, say, on abortion in early pregnancy. And when I quoted those comments, I accidentally pulled the wrong podcast. And so they were sort of acting like, well, she pulled the wrong podcast episode. therefore this book is discredited. Never mind that everyone acknowledges, yes, he did say those things. The quotes are real. I just happened to pull the wrong podcast. And so that was kind of one of the ways that they would approach it to say, you know, now because there was a small, irrelevant mistake, you are now discredited. And that's kind of the sort of thing that you expect to see.

Even though, you know, in a very large, heavily researched book, you're always going to find some things like that. And part of what encouraged me is a good friend of mine who worked with Norm Geisler on his books called me and said, Megan, they did the exact same thing to Norm Geisler when he was coming out and criticizing the establishment for its position on biblical clarity and sufficiency and inerrancy. So, you know, that was encouraging to me. And then another example, and I just came from an event at Grove City College, and that was so encouraging to me to see some of the changes that that school has made. And I don't want to take credit for that, because it was actually the parents, a group of parents and alumni and students, when they had

some concerns about what was going on at that school, they had reached out to me, and I had ended up doing some reporting on it. But I think that reporting helped support them in trying to move the needle toward reforms. So they ended up dropping a class that was designed. Or I think they just redesign the class. I'm not sure if they dropped it entirely or redesigned it. But it was basically sort of a critical race theory class. And it was an anti-racism advocacy class, which we all know, if you've tracked that ideology, it's not actually anti-racist. It's racist. But, you know, those were the kind of things that I feel really good about that, you know, I was at least played a part in helping support those parents and student alum to make those reforms. And I look at Grove City College

and I think this is preserving a great institution for the future. And so, you know, that is what makes me sure to shrug off the critics and go, well, you know what? Who cares? As long as we are restoring some of these important Christian institutions, then, you know, I'll happily take some slings and arrows. But you know, when you advocate for the truth or advocate for biblical worldview, one way of explaining that is it's a spiritual conflict. And when you engage in that, the pushback, the challenge is the nature of that encounter. You know, when you were describing that, when Jesus healed the man in John's Gospel that was born blind and he put the mud on his eyes, I mean, the man could see, irrefutable.

So the religious leaders said, well, he wasn't born blind. Right. So they go get his parents and they say, you know, help us with this. And even the parents were tapping out on it and going, you know, it's our boy and yeah, he was blind, but we don't know anything. I mean, it's not a new pattern, but we have to have the courage to continue to walk or people don't get help. Right.

You know, if Jesus has wanted to be less controversial, he could have done less miracles. And I think that is, as Christians, what we are going to have to overcome because we have a dominant culture, and even within the church, a Christian establishment that wants to, I think, accommodate that culture because that's where the rewards are. You know, those are the things that will make you someone who is, you know, hailed as a great academic or a great theologian or apologist if you accommodate what the culture already values. And so we see them sort of twisting themselves into pretzels to do that. But as Christians, you know, not many lofty, not many, you know, highly respected and revered in an unchristian culture, which is what we have today.

And so I think we do have to sort of ask, if everyone is speaking well of you, particularly everyone who is powerful and wealthy and in those highly influential positions, if they're all speaking well of you, maybe that should be a gut check moment to say, what am I compromising on that all of these people who do not love the Lord and are certainly not. interested in the health of the church. If they're all speaking well of me, why? I think you've opened a conversation that is fascinating to me if we allow the secular culture to create the definitions and the guidelines for what is to be celebrated, then the only way we can be celebrated is by becoming increasingly secular. Exactly. And I think the church has, not totally, but overwhelmingly

capitulated to that. You know, it's true that Jesus did preach some messages that were about tolerance, but it was not his life message. Right. And we've become so afraid of being criticized or labeled. I mean, my experience is if you stand up for biblical truth, you're going to get labeled. You'll be a sexist or a racist or you're going to be Islamophobic or you're going to be some kind of phobic. And you've just got to be willing to collect some labels for the truth. And I think even more damaging, and I don't know if you're a mom, you can at least speak to it at that level, if our aspirations are for our children to be celebrated by a secular culture, then we're going to coach our children in a set of values that will lead them away from the biblical worldview.

And I know every parent has aspirations for their children to succeed. But we want to succeed in the context of what's pleasing to God, not what's celebrated by the pagan culture around us. I don't know how we get that message to the parents in a way that gives them the courage. to be not contrarian, but they'll have to be countercultural. Yes, amen. And, you know, when I think about these things, and I'm going to use maybe a term that is a little bit slang, but I think we have to get more comfortable

with being viewed as low rent, if you know what I mean. I do. Because when we look at Jesus' life. Disrespected. Yes. And I think that there is such a poll that it often isn't even, about money anymore, I think it is more and more about that cultural respect, and there's such a craving for it in our evangelical leadership. And I'm so grateful to those like you who are willing

to stand aside that and sort of take the insults and the discrediting to say, no, here is what is true. Because as we look at this cultural landscape, those who are most esteemed within Christianity and evangelicalism certainly do not tend to be those who are most challenging to our cultural assumptions. So, you know, that's my concern, is that when I look at this, I don't want my kids to be pugnacious just for the sake of being pugnacious. But I do want them to be prepared to be looked down upon. And I want them to remember, look, the political establishment of Christ's time, the religious establishment of Christ's time, didn't think particularly highly of him. No, they orchestrated his execution.

Well, I just had a conversation with Ken Ham, who built the Creation Museum and the Ark. He's a great example of everything I'm talking about here. He built an Ark, for Pete's sake. I mean, it's hard to deny, and he pushed it in everybody's face, that I believe this is a reality and not some mythical assumption in the context of Scripture. And I have such admiration for people that will live that truth out. which I think is really why your book and your work has captured my attention because you do it in a winsome way. Do I?

You do. I've heard different, but I try to be. I think you do. But there's no mistaking your determination either. And that's what makes me smile. You mentioned DEI a moment ago. This current administration has taken DEI and CRT and pushed back on them for the first time in a long time. but I don't have the imagination they're gone.

I have the imagination. They're just lying dormant waiting for a change of administration. They've rebranded, relabeled. You live in this world at some levels that I don't. Am I being pessimistic? I don't think that's been completely rooted out. It's both. You know, like just this week, I guess it was last week,

we saw this story on the state of Massachusetts it's taking a child out of the home of a Catholic family because they refused to address their daughter by trans pronouns and a boy's name. And we had all kind of thought we had won that cultural victory. And you need to say, actually, no, wait, this is still going on. And in fact, in California and a couple of other states, it is still on the book's regulatory approach that they can take foster children or adopted children out of parents. parents' homes if they refuse to capitulate to this gender ideology. So, you know, that's one front

on which I say, hold on a minute. We are not past this. And I think that's true with the DEI and the CRT. I mean, you know, maybe they've gone dormant a little bit. On the other hand, I do want us to celebrate those victories so that the people who have taken so much abuse and name calling and so many insults over what they did with their vote in 2016, 2020, 2020, 24, that we can look at something like the University of Texas at Austin is cutting. It's women's studies, gender studies. It's, you know, various racial studies degree programs. I mean, that is a huge victory. And that wouldn't have happened, I don't believe for a minute, that that would have happened if those much insulted and disparaged, even.

evangelicals hadn't been willing to sort of take those insults and say, no, we're still going to do politically, also spiritually, but this is an outgrowth of our spiritual life. We're going to do politically what we think is the best thing. So, I mean, we took so much disparaging to do that, and yet here's the results. These are good results, and we should celebrate them. Absolutely. You know, I think President Trump and many in his administration, I mean, they have been vilified and their character flaws celebrated. But they've had more courage to stand for a multitude of biblical worldview issues than most of the Christian leaders in my lifetime.

Yes. And, you know, when people talk to me about Trump and his personality and some of his personality foibles, there is one thing I have to think about sometimes that I go, but it took a very unique personality to withstand what he has. Because, you know, if someone had been threatening to bankrupt me, jail me. I don't know. Yes, that I would have the wherewithal to stand up to that and to continue fighting back. So, you know, yes, he has a unique personality, but I also think that it was going to take that in order to resist so much of the fire and the overwhelming attacks. And also, you know, I don't know how people want to point out some of the more extreme and insulting things that Trump has said, and I don't necessarily disagree with that.

But at the same time, they don't talk about the absolutely obscene insults that are directed towards him and his wife and his family sometimes. So, you know, there's sort of two sides of that coin, and that's not to excuse things that were beyond the pale, because I think he has said a couple of things that were beyond the pale, but at the same time, you know, I do go, I do think providentially, God selected a unique personality to do some unique things in this era. I agree. Leading nations, making sweeping cultural changes is not for the faint of heart. No, it is not. Or for those that have very carefully modulated speech, I think it takes a bit.

And there's also a double standard, right? Because I go, look, I mean, we have had plenty of Democratic politicians and even Republican politicians who have said things that are equally, let's say, controversial. But they didn't become headlines because people decided not to make an issue of them. Right. No, no, without question. I mean, the stand for biblical definitions of marriage and, I mean, simple things that Christians should have been shouting from the house tops that we had capitulated on.

We owe this administration a debt of gratitude. Yeah, I agree. Because they have affirmed those things. And we, in the church world, had lacked, for the most part, the courage to do that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, Alan, it's insane that just a few years ago we had within the church, and I'm not talking about progressive church leaders. I am talking about recognized conservative theologians and pastors arguing for things like pronoun hospitality. And again, not talking about, you know, the mainline churches.

We're not talking about Episcopalians. I'm talking about presidents of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is supposed to be, you know, one of the most conservative, if not the, most conservative Protestant denomination in the U.S., that we were that far gone, that you had a lot of not Christians in the Pews. It was actually the Christians in the Pews who pushed back, but in the leadership class going, this is defensible pronoun hospitality. I look back at that and I go, that was insane that we got that far. It was. It's evil. It's not just insane. It's an expression of evil. God designed our bodies to heal. When I came to that awareness, changed my whole attitudes towards prayer, but it also changed my attitude towards health.

We've got a responsibility to do everything we can to promote our own health. That means what we eat matters. Well, in our busy lives and all the things going on, I have found I need little help with that. So supplements and vitamins, nutrients have become an important part of my own lifestyle. Jordan Rubin's a friend, so ancient nutrition.com has become a part of my daily routine. They're a sponsor of this podcast, not just because we need to. a sponsor, but because I actually use the products and I believe in them, they have given us an opportunity for you. You can put in Back to Health 26. As a code, you'll get 26% off sitewide

on all the nutrients, all the supplements. Folks, eating healthy is important, but you can do some things to add to that. Let's stay healthy so we can fulfill what God has for each one of us to do. I want to ask one more question, and then I want to ask a more personal question, I think. But Using your voice as a woman in this culture puts you in opposition a lot of times to a broader group of women. I mean, we've watched some things lately with the trial for the mom who strangled their children and, or when the governor of Massachusetts signed the bill for abortions up to the point of delivery in the rooms filled predominantly with women who are applauding and celebrating. It feels like we have to, we need a course course. correction, even amongst Christian women. I mean, are people that stand at least under that

umbrella. I call it generic Christianity. We don't identify as Muslim or Hindu. How have we gotten to a place where life is so cheap or are my personal agenda is so high that children become accoutrements to my life as opposed to a sacred assignment for a period of time? So I'm speaking of controversial going to say something that I think is a little controversial. and that is, I think a large part of it comes from men abdicating their leadership role, both in the church and in the family and in civic life. So I am like a good Baptist, a complementarian, and I do think that we have had a problem within the church of being led by the comfort of women.

And we as women, and I'll say I'm a little bit of an exception in some ways I think here, but women generally are not as comfortable with blunt speaking. We tend to be more agreeable, more community-oriented. So we want everybody to kind of be on the same page. Consilatory. Yes, it makes us uncomfortable when we're not. And I think that, because we have become such a feminist culture, that even in the church, we got into this place where we had so many church leaders

capitulating to the comfort of women so that they did not say things that needed to be said. they didn't engage in the conflicts that needed to be engaged in. So I think that's a huge factor. And there's a lot more, but I think that's a big one. Yeah. Jason Whitlock moved to Nashville. I don't know if you know Jason. I do. Well, I know of him.

He certainly has some strong opinions on about the feminization of the sports world. Yes. It's, I think, similar to what you're saying. But it's another place where I think we've got to pray. You have, in the midst of all of this, your success, the recognition of your book, the doors I pray that that opened for you. you've had some physical challenges. You've had to face the cancer diagnosis,

but you have come through that and are flourishing. How do you integrate that with, because I think most of us imagine if we tell the truth and we take a godly stand that we're going to skip down the yellow brick road and everything's going to come up and life's going to be perfect. And I don't find that always to be the case.

So how have you navigated that internally? You know, as you asked me that, I feel like I'm still kind of navigating it, So maybe I'll have a different answer in a year, but God has been very faithful in ways that I'm still experiencing, like, day to day. And it is in things like, as I said, I spoke at Grove City. And I had these students, you know, who are 19, 20 years old coming up afterwards going, can I pray for you? I just, you know, and when I was 19 or 20, that is not a thing I would have ever done. So, you know, that was very moving to me.

and I have seen people like, I hope I'm not going to speak out of turn here, but I'm going to talk about my dear friend Rosaria Butterfield. And I didn't ask for her permission for this. But, you know, she was somebody who looked at me and went, I feel that you just need, you know, prayer and Bible study at this time, which, you know, I'm doing that on my own. But she goes, I don't know.

I just, would you be open to that? And it was like right at the moment where I felt like, Lord, I feel like I'm drowning. And that was the moment that Rosaria texted me and said, hey, would you want to do like a weekly Bible study together? And I went, gosh, do I? Yes. And, and you know, there have been moments that have been hard. I mean, I can tell you, just this past week I've had people, and you get this, right, when you're a political writer or a conservative writer, I have had people go, you probably got cancer because you wrote this book. I have had people

say, she's probably lying about having cancer, where I kind of laugh and go, man, if there were anything ever in my life that I wish I could go, just kidding, I don't really have cancer. I wish that was one. But in a way that is also a blessing because it's a weird confirmation that these people that I am opposing Lord, that's pretty unloving. That's pretty hardhearted to say, to look at someone with whom you politically disagree and tell them, you got cancer because you politically disagree with me. Yes. But in a way, in a strange way, it was almost comforting confirmation to me that I'm like, okay, Lord, some of these people that I have

opposed, their hearts are not right that they would say something like that. And so, you know, even those things can be a strange sort of blessing. But you are recovering. Yes. You are gaining strength. You are, you're on a positive road. Yes. So I have a scan next week. So I'm hoping that, you know, it will confirm that that is still where I am. But, yes, so, I mean, it was strange timing that Shepherds for Sale came out in July of 2024. I found out in August of 2024 that I had made the New York Times bestseller list. And then in October of 2024, it was actually you also have cancer, you know, and advanced cancer.

At that point, stage three later found out that it was actually stage four all along. But I can tell you all through this journey, the Lord has brought people into my life and even given me access to, you know, treatments and therapies that wouldn't have been available even a year ago. So I feel very well covered, even as I continue to ask for prayer, because I'm sort of a little bit fearful of a person anyway. my surgical oncologist kind of jokes that, you know, I'm his high anxiety patient. But even in that, that if I can just really quick tell one more story, when I found out that I had this, my co-worker at Daily Wire said, I just interviewed Marty McCarrie, who was at that time he had just been appointed to be the head of the FDA. And she said, I'm going to call him and ask him, you know, for advice on, and I mean, I had

just found out, so I was a mess. And she said, well, I'm going to call him and ask what you should do and what should be our next steps. And I was like, Georgia, you cannot call Marty McCarrie, who has just been appointed to the head of the FDA and bother him with my garden variety cancer. And she's like, nope, I'm going to do it. And she did. And then Marty McCarrie gets back to me. Like he didn't have enough on his plate, you know. And not only does it get back to me, he says, give me some of the options that you're looking at as far as your hospital.

hospital network and, you know, give me the details of your cancer because I'm just going to do, make a couple of calls and see who might be a good option for you for a surgical oncologist because, of course, Marty McCarrie is himself a surgical oncologist at Johns Hopkins. So he did that, and he calls me and says, here is a surgeon that he comes extremely highly recommended, very ethical. And the surgeon is typically the head of your oncology team. So he said, I would recommend this man to you. Well, of course, I'm going to take Marty McCarrey's recommendation. So I go with this surgeon.

And I think it was my very first appointment with him. Come to find out, he's a very strong Christian. His kids, and he, they're Presbyterian and I'm a Baptist, but I didn't hold that against him. You're the same boss. Yes. He goes to the church of a dear friend who is a PCA pastor. And so it was like, even in this. the Lord said, not only am I going to give you a highly qualified surgeon, but he's going to be a brother in Christ.

And at every step of the way, even today, when I get, you know, some question or some, you know, new news about how my cancer is progressing or at this point not progressing, so we're very grateful for that. But he is able to give me, you know, spiritual advice and, you know, sort of talk me down out of a tree by citing scripture to me. And how kind is that of the lore that, you know, not only did he give me a surgical oncologist who's, you know, great at surgery, he's also turned out to be a great spiritual comfort to me as well. That is awesome. God is faithful. Yes, he is. How your recovery is progressing. Good.

Yeah. I mean, I keep feeling like I joke that I keep waiting for somebody to tell me, we're just kidding. You don't have cancer. Because I feel fine. You know, physically I feel great and lost a little bit of weight. And so now I'm in the fun part of going, you got to put weight back on. Well, that's a fun season. Yes, it actually is.

Two women stopped me today. Up in the law, we have a conference, so there's people that I don't know. And one of them was here last year for the conference and asked me to pray for a friend. I didn't remember who was battling cancer. And it had metastasized, and she had brain cancer. So this woman stops me upstairs, and she said, you prayed for me last year. And I had never met her. But long story short, she's got a complete, she's clean, she's cancer-free.

Wow. These are the stories I love. I'm like, I will take all these stories all day. There was no hope. And her friend was standing over behind her just waving at me because she didn't want to intrude. But, you know, how God does it and when God does it, that's not in our purview. And if he uses medicine, hallelujah. If he does it with a talking donkey, I'm okay with that too.

We just want to get to the outcome that he has for us. Yes, amen. We want to pray before we go. But go ahead. I cut you off. Well, I was just going to say, I have had a lot of anxiety and I worry about. And this was kind of one of the things that this surgeon helped me think through. was he said, you keep worrying about if you get to that stage.

You know, will you have the faith and the courage to trust the Lord, even if the outcome isn't what you want? And I hear you worrying about that a lot. And he's like, man, if you get to that point, like you're asking for tomorrow's bread today. He's like, if you get there, the Lord's going to give you that when you get there. But you're not there. So stop thinking about am I going to have the ability to overcome that when I get there?

like, trust that you will, but also don't worry about it because that's not today's fight. Every day brings new reasons to worry. Family, finances, health, the future. Sometimes it feels like the weight of tomorrow steals the peace we're meant to enjoy today. But Jesus gives us a different invitation. In Matthew chapter 6, he tells us, do not worry. not because life will always be easy, but because our Heavenly Father is faithful. In the updated book, Freedom from Worry, Pastor Alan Jackson shares practical, biblical

encouragement to help you replace anxiety with confidence in God's promises. Through scripture, discussion questions, memory verses, and daily reflections, you'll discover practical ways to experience the peace Jesus offers every day. Request your copy of Freedom from Worry with your gift of $20 or more at Alan Jackson.com or call 800 8805102. Do you know Corey Tinboom? Yes. I remember I may not tell it exactly right, but she was traveling with her father on the train.

And she asked a question about something, I forget, whether it was Germany. His father said, Corey, that's too much for you to carry. He said, you know, when we go to the train, I don't give you the ticket until we're getting ready to get on the train. and he said when you need to have the answer for that we'll have the answer for that and I have found God to be extraordinarily faithful and when I get out over my skis and start being concerned about what I don't need to be concerned about today I lose my ability to stay in the moment and do what I need to do doesn't mean I don't do it from time to time but you're very normal that's not

that's good to hear I don't think you know I think that's a very typical response I want to pray for you if I'd be allowed, but I want to pray for everybody else listening because we all have challenges. I think sometimes we're embarrassed to invite God in or reluctant or afraid we'll be disappointed. And I've never been disappointed in God. I've been disappointed.

You know, I don't always understand God's timing. I don't always like, you know, the places I find myself. Why do we walk through? I don't know why we walk through shadowed valleys. But we live in a broken, fallen world. and being a Christ follower doesn't remove us from all the trauma of a broken world. But I trust the faithfulness of God to bring us through. So I want to pray for you.

I want to pray for Megan, but I won't pray for myself. I've had a tooth that the week of a conference I have a tooth goes nuts. And the doctors wanted to do awful things. And I just said, no, thank you. So God's faithful. Amen. Lord, Father, I thank you for Megan or life, for courage or boldness. Thank you for the platform you've given her.

and Lord, I pray you'll multiply it in ways I don't even have the wisdom to ask for today. Thank you for the courage you have given her, for a husband who stands with her and for beautiful daughters. Thank you for her life. And Lord, I thank you that you will complete her healing. I'm grateful for doctors and all they do, but you're our healer, and I thank you that you'll bring life to her, healthy tissue to her body, that every unhealthy cell will wither and go. And I pray for everybody listening, Lord, no details hidden from you. We don't have to be in the room.

have to know the details, you know them all. But I thank you that you are Lord over all creation, that nothing's too difficult for you. And as we cast those anxieties on you and those concerns on you, Lord, we receive your peace. I thank you that you will make a way, that you lead us through those shadowed valleys. Lord, you don't leave us there. In Jesus' name, amen. Thank you so much for coming to be a part of this initiative. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It's a joy to be here. I look forward to next. This is an ongoing story. I look forward to that too.

Amen. I agree. God bless you. Thank you. Thanks for joining me today. Before you go, please like the podcast and leave a comment so more people can hear about this topic too. If you haven't yet, be sure and subscribe to Alan Jackson Ministries YouTube channel and follow the Culture and Christianity podcast.

You can do that on Spotify, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Together, let's learn how to lead with our faith. We can change our culture. I'll see you next time.