Culture & Christianity: The Allen Jackson Podcast - Judge Explains The Legal Battle for America’s Morality [Featuring Judge Phil Ginn]

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

Is America’s legal system turning against its foundations? As chaos spreads through courts, classrooms, and culture, many are asking what happens when law becomes lawless? Behind the headlines and political rhetoric lies a deeper, more unsettling shift: the spirit of antichrist's influence in our culture. In this eye-opening conversation, Pastor Allen Jackson and Judge Phil Ginn expose the forces driving this decline and warn of the dangers ahead, if Christians remain silent.__ It’s up to us to bring God’s truth back into our culture. It may feel like an impossible assignment, but there’s much we can do. Join Pastor Allen Jackson as he discusses today’s issues from a biblical perspective. Find thought-provoking insight from Pastor Allen and his guests, equipping you to lead with your faith in your home, your school, your community, and wherever God takes you. Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3JsyO6ysUVGOIV70xAjtcm?si=6805fe488cf64a6d Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/culture-christianity-the-allen-jackson-podcast/id1729435597

The true church, and I'm using the, I think you mentioned it in your sermon recently, the Big Sea Church, that is the one weapon that Satan can't stand against. And if that Big Sea Church begins to point out these issues that are out there and stand firmly in the truth, like the watchman on the wall, then this nation will change. And only until they do that, will this nation change. Welcome to Culture and Christianity. It is always an honor to have this time. I look forward to it. I create a lot of content between sermons and television, but the podcast is a very unique lane. So thank you for spending a few minutes with us. I'm excited about today. I've got a guest with us that's going to help us get into something that's really dominating the headlines. But it ought to be dominating the headlines of our hearts because what we're watching, I think, is a very unsettling trend. We had an election last November. what the people voted to happen is being interrupted, if not completely hijacked, by our legal system. And somehow that doesn't feel right to me. It's not new. This feels more like a, this feels like

another episode in the shaking. You know, I've said to you that I thought COVID was a shaking initiated by God and that there's been a series of tremors. And I think another one of those tremors was the October 7th attack by Hamas on Israel. It unveiled to me the depth of the anti-Semitism that still existed in America. Well, this time, what's happening with these district court judges predominantly in trying to impede President Trump is revealing a belligerence in the American judiciary that, honestly, I don't think it's new. I think I've overlooked it.

Because when I step back a little bit, I think it was here the first time President Trump was in office. I remember the FISA courts signing off on surveillance of a presidential candidate and then a sitting president, which in my thinking are pretty close to unprecedented in American history. And none of the really, even when the things that were given to them were false by the FBI and all of that stuff came to the top of the discussion, there never seemed to be any repercussions for that. Pretty unsettling.

Then we watched raids on Marlago, the former president's home, you know, with red lights and FBI and high drama and Roger Stone. in the late at night, they're coming to his home. It looks like it's a SWAT team rating some terrorist installation. They just happened to have CNN installed along with them. All of that presided over with judiciary approval. You know, we had 20 million illegal immigrants flood into our country, and I didn't hear any of the district judges, district court judges,

issuing injunctions against any of the people that were presiding. over that. They weren't doing anything to stem the flow of that. And yet now they're very interested in giving legal process to people who came to this country without any formal legal process. So this whole thing to me, I'm pretty outspoken. I think the church has stumbled badly, and we are in need of some significant redirection. But I think in this season, one of the places it's being exposed, and I think this latest episode of shaking is really ultimately for our good because until you recognize the reality, the circumstance, we can't get to a healthier place. And right now, our legal system is in trouble.

You know, a good attorney, this is my opinion, and I'm a country preacher in Middle Tennessee, so you can take that for what it's worth. But the real goal is ultimately the truth. You know, if we move that as the baseline for our lives, as a minister, as an attorney, as a doctor, as a teacher, I think we plunge into some pretty dark places. And I think we've accepted something else as a bottom line, that you should do whatever is best for your client, no matter how bad the lie, how gross the deception.

And I think that's a horrible precedent to have established. So I've gotten into deep into the pool. I'm not an expert on this stuff, but I have a friend at the table who is, I want to welcome Judge Phil Ginn. Thank you, sir, for joining us today. Alan's my pleasure. Always love to be with you.

Now, you have had a very interesting career. You have been a distinguished career as an attorney and a judge, and you are currently presiding as the president of the Southern Evangelical Seminary. That's correct. Rock Hill, South Carolina. All right. So we'll get to the seminary, but I want to get into this legal stuff first and foremost. It feels like to me a crisis. And I suppose in your world, it's a constitutional crisis. It is, but it's certainly one that's not new. It's been building over a period of years, Alan. And it really starts back with a concern about, is there an absolute truth? That's the first place that it begins to seep in, because if your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth, then there's no truth unless it's God's truth. And so I say in our culture, we've erased the Godline.

It used to be that our laws were, we're not a theocracy in America, never were intended to be. We're not a Christian nation. The evidence is clear that we're not. If we ever were one, we're certainly not now. Well, let me, I want to put a little definition in that. We've never been an exclusively Christian nation where it was a litmus test to be a citizen. That's correct. But we are a nation with an overwhelming Christian heritage.

Well, I say, Christianity has certainly been the conscience of the country. Okay. I can live with that. And by that I mean, our whole system of government is based on the morality of Christianity. And if we've got God's opinion, God's ruling, his mandate for us, then you and I can push our opinions up against that Godline and try to determine whether we're right or wrong. But if we erase that Godline, then there's no way that I can find out if I'm right or if you're wrong. vice versa, because we don't have that standard.

And our Constitution, obviously, and our founding documents were based on that morality that God gives to us. Now, what's occurred is that over the years, as this has become more and more vague in our culture, our court system was really originated as well to be reactionary and not actionary. By that I mean when somebody did something, it was referred to the court system to determine how that matched back up with our Constitution. When you start this Nambi-Pambi reading of the Constitution to where it says, oh, it can be anything that we want it to be based on the culture that's interpreting the Constitution at the moment. In other words, it's a living, breathing document. And I bet you've heard that comment.

I have. And we've done that with the Bible, by the way, too. We want to interpret the Bible according to the way we want it to be rather than the way that it is. And this wokeness, the left are really taking radical left, certainly, it's taking the Bible, taking the Constitution, and just making it a gobbledy goop of whatever they want it to be at the moment. I don't know whether one of these things that brought it to focus to me is one of the anti-Semitic demonstrations, the pro-Hamas. And they unfurled a banner that said by any means necessary. So that means if we have an agenda, whoever that may be, even Christianity,

or not to pursue that by any means necessary. That's wrong. That's not what Christ taught us. Agreed. And my dad used to say you don't bludgeon people in the kingdom of heaven. And you certainly are at a real problem in a problem area if you try to do that. They won't stay for long. That's the problem with Islam to a great extent. They force people into the belief system and it's not real. But nonetheless, what you're also seeing here is a more specific thing. It's what's called a universal injunction. Allen. Okay. And legal term? A legal term. It's a relatively new one because as a sitting trial judge, and I was at the highest trial level in North Carolina. I'm not been a federal judge, but there's not a lot of difference between federal law, certainly civil right or civil law and state civil law for the most part, with the exception of Louisiana, which is not in our English system. What you find out there is I have the ability to enjoin those who are in my courtroom in that lawsuit from certain activities. Okay. Okay.

So if someone is, I don't know, stealing property in some way, I can say, you've got to stop that, you can't do it. But what the universal injunction is that we've seen just now, is that one federal district court judge is enjoining the entire nation, which there's a real question as to whether or not they have the ability to do that, because they are going beyond that. The only other way to do that is through what we call a class action lawsuit. Right. Where you enjoin an entire class together or bring an entire class together,

and then you can deal with that class. But that's a very difficult thing to do, and that has not been done. with these cases. And it goes back to almost like the, I believe it was in D.C., the judge who enjoined all of the immigration issues and the Supreme Court finally did not rule on that, but they just said, you don't have jurisdiction. So we've got courts that are assuming jurisdiction where they don't have jurisdiction, and then they are broadening that jurisdiction when they don't have the right to do that either. When they issue some of these universal

injunctions, they're not hearing a case from both sides. They're not listening to an argument. Somebody makes a, and they court shop, they look for a judge that they think will be favorably disposed. If I'm not saying this right, you stop me. You're right. They find a judge that they think is favorably disposed to their opinion. And then they come and ask that judge for a ruling that will stop whatever it is they want stopped or start whatever they once started. But it's not like a trial where there's a hearing and both sides make their case.

So it's really a circumventing what I would consider justice to be. And it's a judge implementing law. Well, anytime a judge enters an injunction against any activity, whatever it may be. Right. You actually have to hold a hearing where some evidence is presented. And you have to make the determination at that point in time as a judge before you enjoin, whatever activity that is, that there will be irreparable damage done that will be done immediately before you can actually have a full hearing on it. In North Carolina, and I'm sure it's that way in the federal system, 10 days is the max.

You have to hold a hearing within 10 days on these things. So those are the things that are happening. but again, in reality, they should be enjoining only those people who are in their court system before them at that point in time in that particular lawsuit. But when you broaden it to cover every district in the United States, it's really rampant misuse of the judiciary to gain that which you would not be able to gain otherwise. In effect, they're legislating out of the judiciary. Well, what about most recently in the last few days, there have been these judges that have been harboring felons or people here illegally in their courtroom.

Sneaking them out the back door. I mean, literally sneaking them out the back door. And then they're offended when law enforcement challenges them on that. They're even saying that, you know, the FBI, whoever law enforcement is is inappropriate when they're arresting these judges. Is it inappropriate? Probably in their courtroom, it may be, but they've got to come out of their courtroom at some point in time. Right. It is, it goes right back to, we're going to create the law as we want the law to be created, and we're going to use whatever means necessary to ensure that our version of that law has followed. it's the same, it's called, we have a representative democracy, as I indicated, based on the morality of faith.

And more particularly the J.J.O. Christian, particularly the Christian faith in America. If you remove that morality, you go to a cultural background of a cultural form of government, which is very similar to what happened in Nazi Germany. And what you have is the culture determines who is right and who's wrong in any given situation. Now, the problem that we've got here in America too on top of that, Alan, is that we're so split. There's no common ground anymore between right and left because they are so diametrically opposed to one another. There's really no way to compromise. And I've said this before with Islamic, and I don't mean to offend anybody, but it's the truth. very hard to negotiate with somebody whose sole purpose in life is to eradicate you from

the face of the earth. And the left, that's what they want. It's okay to assassinate President Trump. It's okay to assassinate Mr. Vance. It's okay to assassinate anybody that doesn't agree with you on these things. Elon Musk. So what's the solution for these rogue judges? Well, Supreme Court? Yeah, but isn't it sad that we now allow nine people to determine our morals in the country, which is where we are? And the same problem is happening with the Supreme Court, Alan, because you've got X number that were appointed by Mr. Biden or Mr. Obama and X number that have been appointed by Republican judges. And you can't trust the Republican judges, quote unquote, to do what they're supposed to do because they're shifting back. and forth all the time, several of them are.

So again, it's, if you interpret the Constitution strictly as you ought to, as you ought to do, I'm a constitutionalist. Mr. Trump is a constitutionalist, I think, from that standpoint. And certainly Mr. Alito and Mr. Thomas, the justices, they're constitutionalists. they look at it from a strictly interpretive standpoint. What does the Constitution say? Whatever it says, that's what we're going to do. But then you begin to manipulate it.

And it's the old thing, Al, the same thing Satan did to Eve. Did God really say that? And in turn, they're looking at the Constitution and say, well, did the Constitution really say that? Okay. So I hear a couple things. You're making a parallel. Well, excuse me, between the attitude towards Scripture that we hold, and principally we hold in the churches, and perhaps even more honestly is held by people in ministry, where the Word of God ceased to be authoritative. That's right.

And it has become something to be interpreted against the culture in which we live. That's correct. So moral and immoral is no longer a biblical idea. That's correct. It's a cultural idea. Marriage is no longer determined by Scripture. it's a cultural idea, which is, I don't know, it might be a bit of stretch to say it's the predominant opinion in the contemporary evangelical world, but it's pretty close.

It's getting there. Okay. And I've said this before, and I'll just say it plainly. The Constitution is to our government what the Bible ought to be to our faith. Right. And the reverence with which we look at that and the reverence and the strictness with which we interpret it. and just the quality we give to it is going to define what kind of people we are based on our government and constitution

and also what kind of faith we have based on how we look at the Bible. Well, our goal in this podcast is always to get to the what we can do part. But first we've kind of got to establish what we're seeing because it's a confusing time. If somebody's sitting in one of those churches where the Bible is no longer considered authoritative, I have a suggestion, leave. Get out. I mean, and I say that with some significant sadness, but I wouldn't sit there and try to reform that.

I would go find a place because it may be circumstances emerge where you need people of faith around you, and that's not it if they don't believe in Scripture. But the parallel you've given us now is that the Constitution, the foundational document for our nation, is being widely interpreted no longer as a document that has meaning it's simply a set of suggestions to be interpreted against the contemporary feelings of our legal culture. And that's how we got Roe v. Wade.

The Supreme Court found something that wasn't on paper. They massaged it. They found a right. And then the current Supreme Court said that was incorrect, which is not really new. There's been that tension in our legal system from the beginning of our nation. And there's been this tension regarding Scripture as far back as we have a history of the church. So what we're facing isn't something unique to the 21st century. It is very much buried in human character.

But if I hear you correctly, you're advocating for a return to the Constitution as true north, as a compass point that we understand our law based on the permissions that are in the Constitution. Well, in the church world, I can say leave your church that doesn't believe. the Bible's authoritative and go find a church that does. In our nation, I can't say leave the United States and go find somebody that believes our Constitution. So we have to initiate change. Absolutely. And that starts at our local level and our communities with who we elect into offices to be judges. Is that? Oh, absolutely. And it's not only your judges. It's your senators, your congressmen,

your school board members, all the way down to the lowest level. But let me say to you also, Alan, that the culture will not be any better than the faith that's exhibited in our churches. Absolutely. The question I'm asked most often is, how do I know what God wants me to do? If I just knew what God wanted me to do, I would do it, whatever it is. Well, our offer this month I think will help. It's by a good friend of mine, Rob Morgan. The Lord is my shepherd.

He's going to unpack the scripture that tells us how to follow the Lord's guidance. and understand his abiding presence and his comfort, it'll help you chart a course and know the path that God has for you. Get a copy. It'll make a difference in your life. Life can be overwhelming, but true peace is possible. Pastor Robert Morgan's book, The Lord is My Shepherd, reflects in the specific ways Psalm 23 speaks to our lives today. It will help you find rest for your soul

and discover the joy, inspiration, power, and peace found in Psalm 23. In today's culture, it's essential to know God is living. leading us, charting our path, and watching over us. Request your copy of the Lord is My Shepherd when you donate any amount at Alan Jackson.com. And until we get our churches straightened out for the most part, to some extent, you know, what are we looking at? I think Barnacels us 51% of our pastors have a biblical worldview.

I don't think it's that high, but I'll take it. If that's the real number, I'll be celebrating. And 6% of our folks. in an evangelical church on any given Sunday morning, six percent have a biblical worldview, according to Barnah. And you go back to it, and I know this is something that you guys are really keen on here at World Outreach, less than six percent of the churches have an effective discipleship program. So as folks come to the faith, they don't learn the faith.

They don't learn about the faith. They don't understand that coming to the Lord, in some call on your life is just the beginning. It's not the end. It's not just a fire insurance policy. It's got to have something underneath it. And that's certainly what Southern Evangelical Seminary is all about in trying to not only defend the faith,

but we defend the faith by teaching the faith, the principles of the faith. Yeah, I want to come back to that. Before we go, I want to talk a little bit more about that seminary and tell people how they can learn a little bit more about it. But I want to stay here for just a minute, Because your legal expertise is really helpful. And I'm, I don't want to let you go.

I was in Jerusalem one time in the hotel of a lobby. And this Jewish family came up and started pinging me with questions. Because they didn't know a Christian. And before long, another Jewish family came up and started asking questions. And the first Jewish family turned and said, you go find your own. We found this one. So today I found a judge. Well, that's fine.

And I'm not standing before you with your robes on. So I'm a little more relaxed. If I had to give an evaluation for how the church, how they undermine the authority of Scripture and the church, a very critical component of that was the introduction of critical theory into biblical studies, into seminaries and formal academia. And now decades later, they have almost totally eroded that biblical foundation in leadership of the church. And I suspect there's something similar. I know that it's called critical legal theory, but it's critical theory introduced to the practice of law. It's the same thing.

Can you tell the people listening a little bit what's the thing? that means in practical terms? Well, it goes back to what you even mentioned earlier, and it's whatever it takes. That's the mentality now that's permeating the legal system. In other words, you make a determination how you want it to come out, and you proceed to figure out how to make that reality. So you're saying judges do that or attorneys do that? Everybody's doing that. You know, it all started with, particularly in criminal court, everybody's a victim. You know, we even call it victimology. We've coined a word, whether it's a real word or not, but it's the study on how I can become a victim.

I murder six people, but yet I'm a victim. I'm the one that's really been put upon here. And that's critical theory. It's the equity. it's you're you're automatically somehow superior you've had superior abilities given bestowed upon you opportunities bestowed upon you simply because you're a color. Well it's this young man in New York that allegedly shot the insurance executive. Well, it's not much allegedly about it.

There's video. But he shot this insurance executive. And I mean, there's this whole host of people trying to justify it. Oh, absolutely. because their insurance got canceled. Absolutely. Therefore, it's okay to go assassinate some insurance worker. I mean, that is teetering on anarchy.

If we add our moral approval to that, none of us are safe. Because it's just somebody that deems your behavior as a threat, then they're justified in doing whatever they want to. Well, if we as Christian say certain things are sinful, then those folks who want to participate in those. things, that's free game. I mean, we're, did this come after us? And, you know, that's, that's the sad part about all of this, I think, Alan, is that we have degenerated to the point where you're exactly right. Anarchy is beginning to seep into the system. And when that

does, autocracy follows, because people will ultimately be safe. They want to be safe. And they will elect somebody, they will put somebody in power like a Hitler who will make promises of safety and security and peace and bring with it. It kind of sounds like the Antichrist a little bit, doesn't it? More than a little bit. Because that's what the spirit is. Absolutely. You know, the historical names are far less significant than recognizing the spirits that

are at work. Absolutely. And the spirit of Antichrist will do anything to diminish the influence of the scripture and the uniqueness of Jesus. while at the same time putting people under a very destructive expression of authoritarianism. Absolutely. I mean, we can look across history and see expressions of that. Well, very simply, I tell folks, the God I know, the God I worship is a God of order.

Our world is orderly. The one that he gave to us is orderly. We've certainly destroyed it to a certain extent. But Satan's not. Satan is the father of lies. He's the father of discontent. He's the father of disorder. And as that has come into the courts, you cannot trust the court system any longer to have a just result.

And when the court system itself, when the law becomes lawless, we're on the precipice of destruction. So we have all counted upon at least the objective is that justice is blind. We know there are some episodes where that's not been the case. But that has always been the goal. But what I hear you describing is they've kind of set that goal aside. Well, at best, judges are determining how they want the case to come out and finding ways to get there. Instead of listening to all of the evidence going through with the entire process and then making a ruling based on the facts and the evidence and the law.

law. And the law is just not held in as high reverence as it one time was. But I think the evidence, and there's a lot of evidence, but, you know, trying to help people listening to this, the deterioration of culture and the legal culture is like the deterioration of health. You get to a tipping point. You get too many of your organs not functioning, and you don't overcome that. That's correct. And we get to a point in our legal system and in our culture where if too many of the systems are dysfunctional, we don't overcome that. We'll lose freedom and liberties irreversibly. Well, it applies obviously to all branches of government, Alan.

But I would say to you that the most important, the last bastion of protection for us is our legal system. And because the legal system is the one that's supposed to protect us from the overages or whatever it may be as they come out of common. Congress or the administration. So if you, it's like a child. If the child loses the protection of the mother, the mother is the last one that protects the child. And so that child is at disadvantage if the mother is gone. And that's the way it is with the law.

The law is intended to be that bastion of protection for the entire system of government that we enjoy here in America. And as that system deteriorates, as it is destroyed, then if there is a crisis which occurs of any kind, then we're in deep trouble. And it actually, back in, was it 20, when we had the mostly peaceful riots all across the nation, we were on the precipice at that point in time. and you look at what, and the law failed us. It failed us in those circumstances. It did. But what happens in those seasons, the law failed us,

but it exposed something that had been taking place for a long period of time. It did. So I tend to think of those things as a gift because it exposes a problem. And when we can recognize we have the problem, then we can do something to remediate that. And I agree wholeheartedly. with you, Alan, but what I fear is that Christians are afraid to even recognize the problem, much less address it.

I don't disagree with you. That's why we do podcasts like this. And that's what I'm calling on Christians to do. That's what I want pastors to do. I'm frustrated with pastors who say that I don't want to have anything to do with cultural issues. I just want to preach the gospel. Well, the gospel is dealing with cultural issues.

Jesus did that when he was here. And so I just think it's a cop out to somehow avoid the difficulties that you get if you do speak out because, you know, Paul did that and what happened to him. It would have been difficult for Moses to fulfill his assignment if he hadn't addressed cultural issues. Once or twice. So, yeah, that's a really perverted gospel. I agree. I agree. Okay.

So I, let's push on. We'll do another session on this. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go. I know you've done some things with the White House Faith Office, or at least in advocating for them. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Because there is a note of hope in that. There is a note of hope in it.

I wish we had a little different leadership, to be honest with you, because I don't think that the, you know, I hate to call it. I'm going to call it, I'm going to call the essential Christians are not there. I don't want to call them fundamentalists. You know the old adage about that. very little fun, too much damn and not any mental. And I don't want to go that route. But we do, Norm Geisler, my mentor, called him essentialists.

You know, we need those who are essentialists in there. And the one thing that I would say, you can criticize Mr. Trump for a lot of things. And he's not done everything correctly. Nobody does. I'm not trying to call him the second coming of Jesus or anything like that because he's not. He's a man and he has his fault. But he's made it okay to name the name of Christ again. And I think that is the major thing that we're seeing out of these faith initiatives that are there.

And there's two or three of them within his administration. One is more leaning toward international and one more domestic. And they're beginning to speak out about the atrocities that are committed against our brothers and sisters who have to worry. if they name the name of Christ, will they or their children be killed? And that's certainly very important. I think it was Martin Luther King Jr. He said, you can't make a law that causes a man to love me, but you can make a law to keep him from hitting me,

and that's pretty important. And so that's what we're looking for. And not only that, but there are subtle ways to attack Christianity that I think they're dealing with and saying this is not right. the IRS can't just go after you. FEMA now has to actually come and help you, even though you're a Christian, you know, kind of thing. So those are very helpful in that regard.

Free speech. Oh, absolutely. It would just be nice if we gave churches free speech. Absolutely. And, you know. College campuses get tax deductions and federal funding. To say to you that the true church, and I'm using the, I think you mentioned it in your

sermon recently the Big Sea Church, that is the one weapon that Satan can't stand against. And if that Big Sea Church begins to point out these issues that are out there and stand firmly in the truth, like the watchman on the wall, then this nation will change. And only until they do that, will this nation change? No, I agree completely. It's a false church. It doesn't tell the truth. Yeah.

It's like a doctor. You're a quack if you don't tell your patience the truth. And I think if you're an attorney and you don't. If you're a judge, you don't. Absolutely. It's a false practice. But you're invested in something that gives me some real hope on this front, the Southern Evangelical Seminary.

Tell us a little bit about that. You're actually helping train some leadership for the church. Well, we are. And I've told folks, and I want folks to understand that Southern Evangelical Seminary wants to be the champion of God's Church in America. And we're intent on doing that. We have, for 33 years, defended the gospel and defended the kingdom of God and fundamental Christianity. Again, I use that word advisedly.

We do that because we believe the scriptures are the scriptures. We have a very high view of scripture. Dr. Geistler helped draft the Chicago statement on inerrancy and fought for inerrancy and infallibility of scripture all of his life. And it is a hill that will die on at SCS. But we're also want to be innovative in the way that we do that. You know, this culture, as you and I are sitting here talking, gets their information a lot of times from their cell phones. So you have to use different ways to reach this culture than what we did 10 or 15 years ago. But the third thing, the third eye, I could be a preacher with my three eyes, but we're wanting to impact culture.

And we do that by changing the lives of individuals that we come in contact with, the same way that we as Christians ought to do that. We have a new initiative that I'm very proud of. We're calling it a virtual faith link. And it is a concept to, amongst other things, seed churches with disciple makers. Not disciplining people, but creating disciple makers. It's a step further. and it's a year-long process that we put people through this, and we're wanting to churches to give us some of their leaders,

maybe some pastors, but it's also something that a father or a mother could do in their own home to teach their children the basics of our faith and why it's so important. These things matter to us. They matter to our children. They matter to our grandchildren and going forward, and that's what we're wanting to teach. And it's really beginning to gather some attention.

The folks even at Billy Graham Evangelistic Association understand what their problem is. They come in and they hold a festival or a celebration depending on which evangelist it is. And they leave town. And there's three or four thousand people who've had an experience that they believe is from the Lord. And they don't know what to do with it. and so your church does a great job of bringing them and growing them forward in their small group setting, but most of these people admittedly from BGA, they get lost. And that's a travesty for us to bring a new Christian into the world and leave them out there to the elements to grow on their own.

We wouldn't do that with one of our children. We wouldn't even do that with an animal. you know, we're going to deal with that. And so that's what we're about. Not only are we teaching it from an academic standpoint, but we want to take what we know at SES and bring it to the masses through this program. Well, if somebody listening wants to find out more

about Southern Evangelical Seminary, how do they do that? SES.org.org. It's really simple. You can get everything you want there on our website. And we're just so thankful for churches like World Outreach that are out there doing God's business. And, you know, there's an old adage that says the lights and the churches have gone out. Let's blow on the candle of the heart, and we will see by and by.

So you're doing that here. And that's what causes churches like this to flourish, Alan, and not only flourish, but to be about God's business. There are churches that are flourishing without that. and they're going to be, you know, we're all going to have to stand in front of the Lord one of these first days. I'm closer to it than most people are. And I'm just thinking through my mind, what am I going to tell him? Well, none of us know when that appointment's going to roll up. Absolutely.

We want to think it's based on our birthdays, but in reality that's in God's hands. Well, I don't think I'm going to die young. We always want the outcome of these discussions to be about what we can. can do. And what I think, if I had to put a summary statement around what we've talked about, it's the health and the vitality. The church will make our legal system healthier. Absolutely. Make our nation healthier. But if we want justice back in our courtrooms, we've got to bring God's values back into our homes. Absolutely. So that people listening, we're not powerless. See, it seems like such a small thing to bring Jesus back to my kitchen table.

But I think if we're bringing back to our kitchen table, then we'll see him show up in the local circuit court. We'll see him show up in the school system. We'll see him show up in our court system. We'll see him show up at City Hall. And we'll see him show up all the way up to Washington, D.C. You know, there's an old adage that says some people grow with added responsibility and power and others just swell.

And swelling, if left unchecked, can lead to an early demise. And so the swelling syndrome is going pretty thick in Washington, D.C., in some of our state capitals and some of our churches, unfortunately. So we need to be back about the business of really being laborers in God's kingdom. Well, I want to thank you. One of the things I have discovered is it's very difficult to speak the truth into your profession. It's uncomfortable for me, and it has been. I've had to learn to talk about the church and it's health or lack thereof.

For somebody that works in education to tell the truth, because they want to say, well, you know, I'm a Christian and I'm a good educator. If you work in health care, you want to say, well, I'm a good physician or I'm a good nurse. And all of those things are true. But the larger reality is our systems are struggling because we have so diminished our biblical worldview. Absolutely. And I'm very grateful for your courage to talk about the legal system and the judiciary. We're not condemning the infrastructure.

We need those systems to flourish. Absolutely. But we've got to have some course correction to do that. Well, each one of our branches is essential. If one of our branches fails, the other are in great danger. And so the strength of our judiciary, though, I think is perhaps the most important because that's going to be the one who keeps checks and balances on the other two. So it's so important for us to bring back that guideline and our cause. culture that existed at its outset because without morality, democracy doesn't work.

And I know people say, well, we're not a democracy. We're a republic, but a republic is a form of democracy, Alan. So I don't put a lot of stock in that. But we really need to change those things around us. If we change our children, if we change our grandchildren, if we change our friends, sooner or later, the same. thing is going to happen in reverse that's happened now. It's been torn down piece by piece. We've got to build it back up piece by piece. And I think that the current administration is

giving us that opportunity. The one thing that I'm excited about when I look and I look around this nation and I see anecdotal, I'll use the word revival. I hate to use it in some sense, but it's revival. If you look at these anecdotal revivals, they're occurring on college campuses among Generation Z. And that is the generation that we thought was probably lost irreparably. And yet now we're finding out there the most conservative generation that's come through in a long time.

And out of that generation, the ones that are seeking the most are the young males. And I think they've been told it's okay for a young male to be a Christian. and I think that they are beginning to say there's something more than me out there, and I want to know what it is, and we as God's church, the big C church, need to be letting them know. Well, it is tremendously refreshing to me to hear an attorney and a judge pointing to Scripture as a means of bringing healing to our nation. I thank you for your voice and your efforts and your work at SES.

But far beyond that, you're a voice in the body of Christ, and that's not accidental. You could be playing a lot more golf or fishing a lot more. And you've chosen to put your time and effort and energy into making a difference for the kingdom of God. And if we will all pick up that attitude, I promise you there's more reasons for hope than despair. It just takes a little determination on our part. You know, God sent Nehemiah back to Jerusalem to rebuild the walls around that city, one block of stone at a time. and I kind of feel like we're in one of those rebuilding seasons. We get to rebuild some things that have brought liberty and freedom to many.

And if they're going to bring those to our children and grandchildren, it's because we're willing to do the work to rebuild some of those walls that have been torn down. That is a worthwhile assignment. Judge, again, I thank you for your efforts and your time. You come back and see us again. It's been my pleasure. I love it. I love being here with you, Alan. All right.

That's culture and Christianity for today. Don't stop. Hey, thanks for joining me today. Before you go, please like the podcast and leave a comment so more people can hear about this topic too. If you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to Alan Jackson Ministries YouTube channel and follow the Culture and Christianity podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Together, let's learn how to lead with our faith and change our culture. I'll see you next time.