Culture & Christianity: The Allen Jackson Podcast - Seeing God in the Midst of Suffering [Featuring Rebecca St. James & Cubbie Fink]

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

Have you ever felt forsaken or like God was silent in your struggle? In this episode, Pastor Allen Jackson is joined by Christian music artist Rebecca St. James and her husband, Cubbie Fink, former bassist of Foster the People. Together, they open up about the role of faith in seasons of waiting, pain, and uncertainty. They discuss how God shows up in the midst of struggle, what it means to live as a picture of redemption, and why now—more than ever—the Church must support creative work that upholds biblical truth.More Information:Lasting Ever: Faith, Music, Family, and Being Found by True Love: https://store.focusonthefamily.com/lasting-ever Practice Makes Parent Podcast: https://podcasts.focusonthefamily.com/show/practice-makes-parent/ __ It’s up to us to bring God’s truth back into our culture. It may feel like an impossible assignment, but there’s much we can do. Join Pastor Allen Jackson as he discusses today’s issues from a biblical perspective. Find thought-provoking insight from Pastor Allen and his guests, equipping you to lead with your faith in your home, your school, your community, and wherever God takes you. Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3JsyO6ysUVGOIV70xAjtcm?si=6805fe488cf64a6d Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/culture-christianity-the-allen-jackson-podcast/id1729435597

Well, welcome to culture and Christianity. If you listen regularly, you kind of know the deal by now. Our objective is to try to get church outside the walls of a worship service, that we take our faith and we sprinkle it generously through our culture. I don't believe the goal is to hide in our buildings and sing our favorite chorus and review our favorite passage. I think the intent of the church is to be an influence in culture, not to scold culture, not to shame culture, but to make a case for what we believe and why we believe it. in a way that's so winsome that we transform culture. It's been the assignment of the church for more than two millennia, and we're the 21st century edition. So I'm delighted to introduce you to my guest today, Rebecca St. James,

and your husband, Cubby Fink. Welcome. Thank you, Pastor Allen. You've been at church with us today, and you were gracious enough to hang around and do a podcast. What a sweet-spirited church. I just, I don't know, I keep saying it all day long, but just the engagement,

the, I don't know, sometimes you go into a church and it's like you have to kind of warm up the audience a little bit to like really engage with worship or engage with God. And they were just there, ready. Like they really want to worship and it just feels very authentic, truly authentically loving. So just you've got a great culture here. I had some similar feelings about you. You've been in the music industry for a day or two. A day or two. And it's, I was around.

I remember when your career was kind of a. emerging and it's not unusual to get jaded and you kind of pick up calluses. And yet as you invited the congregation to worship with you, there was an authenticity to it. Thank you. It was refreshing. Thanks. I mean, in my heart, I wanted to worship along. And so I thank you for your faithfulness in that.

Thank you. So you've been a part of the Nashville music scene for a day or two. Or a decade or two. When you start with your six, that works out really well. NC so they don't know. Yeah, exactly. It's not a baby. I think a lot of people listening probably know a bit of your story from the movie Unsung Hero. So this isn't like just a complete get-to-know-you event. And Cubby, you were part of that movie too on the production side. Yeah, yeah, I got to help produce and direct that film and was able to speak into some of their

early iterations of the script and obviously had first, firsthand information on some of the stories that were told on that. And you could speak into it too. But yeah, really special project to be a part. not for sure. Well, I thought the honesty of it was refreshing. You know, we tend to tell our God stories as if we just leap from victory to victory or mountaintop to mountain top and your willingness to be a bit more transparent. Yeah. You know, even the blessings of God leave calluses and marks. And I thought you told that beautifully. Good. Were you pleased with the outcome, the reception that the films had? Very much. Yeah. Just been a year ago? A year, yeah. Linescate. A year in a year. Yeah. Yeah.

so I can't believe it. And it has been really sweet to just see, I think, families to be encouraged to pray in a different way. You know, our family, we only had, you know, each other and God and not in that order. So prayer was our lifeline. And I think when people see that on a screen and they see kids praying for a car and food and money and, you know, just in an empty furnitureless house. And then they see God put it on people's hearts to bring gross. and furniture and checks in the mail, all of it, it's those modern day miracles. And then I think it encourages other families to pray specifically too.

And so we've heard lots of testimonies like that, which is great. Well, you have a new project now. You have a new book that's just out. Yes, just out. The last thing ever. Yeah. I have a copy. You can see.

Tell us what you, what was your goal? You know, when they bring me a book project, you know, that we have to talk about what we're trying to accomplish or what the. objective is, so what do you want the readers to take away? Yeah, it's, it was an interesting journey. I think both Rebecca and I had some sort of an inkling of an idea that there might be a book in our future at some point. Even when we got married, like 14 years ago. Early marriage on, and I think both of us assumed it was going to be much further down the track when we were older and wiser. But it was actually one of the producers from Unsung Hero

that approached us, I mean, coming up on two years ago now, and said, hey, I feel like you guys have a story that will encourage people in culture today, some of what you alluded to, the fact that Rebecca has walked through decades of Christian music and has come out the other side, unjaded and still passionate about Jesus. And I spent a lot of time in the secular world and mainstream music and was able to stand on Jesus as my rock in that world and come out unscathed. And just what we've learned in our respective careers and lives. And then what we've learned together through marriage and all the highs and lows in between.

So really the hope of the book is that it would be an encouragement to the reader, that God's way is good. He is trustworthy. His scripture is as trustworthy today as it's ever been. Because unfortunately, there's just a lot of people discouraged in their faith, a lot of people discouraged in relationships, a lot of people deconstructing their faith because of hurts and pains and trauma, which we've walked through, which we share about in the book. And despite our hurt and pain, despite the tough things that we've been through, we know that God, is good in the midst of it. And we've grown exponentially because of the hard and trusting that he is good is ultimately that is the hope that people would walk away with. You know, hurt and pain are universal. Yes. And I think we miss that. Yeah. You know,

you both live in the creative world, which most people imagine is a world that kind of above pain and disappointment. I mean, we know that's not true, but we tend to project that onto other people. You were in the secular side too. Tell us a little about what you did. I know they'll be interested. Yeah. So it was kind of an interesting journey, but I ended up in L.A. actually, after spending a couple of years on the mission field. L.A. is a mission field. Yes. It is too. They just speak English. That's right, which was a beautiful way that God was able to transition my heart because I was initially resistant. After living and working in South Africa for a couple of years and just seeing God do unbelievable things. I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life down there, was passionate about

mission, passionate about being in other cultures and ingrained in, you know, a completely different country and worldview and all the things. And God made it very clear that it was time to leave as much as I didn't want to and redirected me back to L.A. And it was a bit of kicking and screaming to get me back there. But I tell the story in the book, but I ended up hiking Runyon Canyon, which is just kind of part of the Hollywood Hills, you got a view of all of L.A. below, out to the, out to the ocean of the west. And so it was just one of those moments where the smog was clear and you could see all of the city. And I turned around and God spoke those words. He said, this is the new mission field. And really kind of from that moment on was able to say someone in my season there and be purposeful

on mission in L.A. But ultimately ended up meeting some musicians after moving there pretty quickly and was there initially to do film and God had other plans and redirected things towards music. And he's all humble, but I can kind of brag about him as a wife. I mean, his song with Foster the People, so he was a founding member, a bass player in Foster the People, and their song pumped up kicks was just huge around the world for quite a while. And so we were just meeting, kind of getting married about the time the band was establishing. but they did SNL and they were doing Lollapalooza and Cachella and all these festivals all the way around the world

and seeing all the trappings of that world too, but what I'm so proud of him about was that he stayed true. He had integrity. He wasn't doing all the things that you can do in that world and he was really trying to honor God. And then we got to really travel together as husband and wife too and I would be in the house just proud of my man. So it was cool to.

to partner together, understanding music, having my decades of music really on the front end of that, and then to see him honor God in a world that a lot of people don't. Right. You can do that. You can choose God and be successful without selling out your values, which I think is important to hear. We don't tell that story enough. I think the young people have to hear that from us. Yeah.

that the opportunity to be ungodly doesn't mean you should be ungodly. 100%. Yeah. You know, that you can make a different choice. Yeah. And they need to hear that from men and women that wrestle with that because you do wrestle with it. It's not like you're too stupid to know there's a temptation there. Right.

Or that it's legitimate or real or it could be acted upon. You make a different choice. And there are people who make that choice to be godly. I think those stories have to be shouted from the house stops. I know you do that. And you talk about purity. Yes. And it didn't remove the story.

struggle. And I think everybody needs to hear that too. You choose to honor God and it's still not always easy? 100%. How can that be? Yes. So you had to overcome some things. Yes. And I think we are living in a culture too that's very feelings based. And if I'm not feeling this, then this whole faith thing mustn't be real or if I'm not having this emotional high, then I think I'm going to throw in the towel. And I think we try in the book to be just very authentic about our struggles. And I talk about like purity. I mean, it's interesting because I was kind of the, you know, the girl that had a song about purity, the song that I'd written from my future husband that I didn't know yet, you know, 10 years before I met him and I'd speak at the true love weights rallies. And it was all very

natural for me because that was a commitment that I'd already made and wanted to stay true to. And was thankful for, you know, that true love weights movement. But it was a lonely, long wait. I was 32 when we met and 33 when we got married. And so there was years of just going, I'm so public about this idea of honoring God and relationships of, you know, spoken all the way around the world about it. And then I'm lonely and I'm on the road all the time. I can't meet this holy hunk that I'm longing for. And then God wrote about the miracle.

And I still, to this day, can tear up very easily just being so thankful. that he did, like that I have a husband and three kids and he's been so gracious to me. Like, he didn't owe that to me, you know, just because I wanted it, he didn't owe that to me. But in his grace, he decided to allow us to me. You mean God doesn't exist to fulfill our wish list? No. And I think we need to be reminded of that. We actually need to hear that regularly because our culture so feeds this idea of if we're not winning and on top and it's all working for us in the way that we thought it would, then something's wrong. And just because were in pain doesn't mean it's wrong. You know, you think of Jesus, the son of God, doing everything

right, being whipped and crucified and mocked and, you know, like, and then Peter and Paul going through so much, like, but they were doing right. So I think we need to talk more about that because it's so easy. I find myself just going, well, am I doing something wrong that this, this is not, this part of my life is not thriving in the way that the world would think of it. It should be, you know. Or we hear these incomplete ideas that a good God would not allow me to walk through a difficult place. Right. That's not even a good parent.

Right. A good parent understands their children have to learn to overcome and face frustrations and disappointments and they fall down. Yeah. If they don't fall down, they'll never learn to walk. Right. Yeah. But we don't want to do that. And you've got a beautiful family, but you had to endure some things before you got there, some disappointments.

I did. Yeah. I shared about that today in the service. miscarriage and big disappointments, hurtful, painful ones. But you didn't lose your faith? No. No, I'm thankful. I think there was something in both of us in that time because he'd parted ways painfully with the band at that point too.

And so we were both in kind of what we call our winter season. We write about it a lot. But I think there was something that we, and we were being mentored. We were, you know, seeking counsel. We, you know, we were being poured into in that time. But I think there's something in us that knew. like, God's going to work this out. He's going to redeem it.

He's good. He's going to restore the years the locusts has eaten. And they were years of this, you know, this winter. And then he brings us out into a new time of two more kids after that. And new ministry ventures and this book together. And I don't know, it's a sweet. There's a sweetness too. It's not perfect.

We're still struggling if you're trying to figure out things. Turn off the mind. Yeah. We're done. We're done here. Yeah, but we do try to be very authentic because I think everyone's going through their own version of hard. Like you're in and out of winter and spring, you know, in all of your life, winter, spring, summer. You know, it's so old challenging fall.

Like we just come in and out of these seasons. And sometimes you can have spring in one area and winter in another. It's the joy and the pain mixed. And that's okay too because that's real life. Life's difficult. Doesn't mean there's not joy in it or meaning in it or fun in it. But it doesn't mean every day is fun and easy and happy. Some days we have to do the hard things.

Yeah. And there's no life season where that stops. You don't get so old that that changes or you're never so young. And I think that's a part of the training. Isn't that's what our heroes had to do? Absolutely. I mean, you mentioned Jesus. The Bible says he learned obedience by what he suffered.

I'd rather learn obedience in a seminar. I know. I know. Take the right notes and then live it out. It all works. But in my life, it's in those messy places. And, you know, I had this wrong imagination that if I did the right thing, good things would happen. Me too.

And that if bad things were happening, I must have done the wrong thing. And I really imposed that on other people. If they were having challenges, I thought, ah, what are they hiding? And then my life blew apart. And I wasn't hiding anything that I was conscious. And I thought, well, I have to rethink this because I needed mercy. And there wasn't much mercy around me because I hadn't been very merciful. Interesting.

And I said to the Lord, you know, if you will bring restoration to me, I will help other people that are broken understand God's a God of mercy. Wow. But I didn't arrive there because I went to a really clever seminar. Yeah. Or I was a brilliant Bible scholar. I have scars. And I find that to be more the case. And that's why I love to sit with people that are on the journey.

Because we see you on stage or we hear about your band and your success or movies you produce. and most of all, most of us don't get to do that. I mean, well, you couldn't do that and be unhappy. But having platforms doesn't take the pain out of life. And of anything, I think you can almost feel a bit more isolated because people do put you up on a platform. They kind of look at you. I mean, you get it.

You're getting that a lot in your position with the round eyes and the, wow, it must be good. You know, so that feeling even of people, putting you on a pedestal can feel isolating or like people don't really relate or I don't know. But I think in my dad, you managed me for a long time, you've met my dad also manages my brother's. Yeah, yeah. In the dictionary as extrovert, David Smallberg. But he always said, don't believe your own publicity, don't buy into it. Like he was always just encouraging kind of authenticity and you've got to have the real friends that are going to speak

truth to you that are going to keep you grounded and, you know, but, but the value of authenticity. And I think, you know, we're talking about all the real stuff of parenting and, you know, married life and trying to stay on the same page and sort through conflict. It's all there, you know. And in some ways, again, the platform makes it a little more difficult, I think. Sometimes it can, not easier. Yeah. Yeah.

The part I like about the book is I think that authenticity, and I thought you were open enough to invite people into the reality of that. Good. And that, I think, is a gift to whoever we'll read it. Because I think the enemy tries to convince us that we are unique. And I'm not a big fan when I talk to pastors, because they'll do that, you know, we're public people. And I'm like, I've done hard jobs. And this is not it.

And I don't mean that disrespectfully because it's serious things, but I don't take myself that seriously. You know, yes, if you stand in a spotlight on a stage in front of people, there's something about that that that's isolating. But for a season of my life, I cleaned stalls, which meant eight hours a day. I was covered in horse manure, and I smelled really bad. That's very isolating, too. That's true. And it's a much less, there's just no applause if you have that kind of a job. You're right.

You're right. Cleaning houses for me. For the pastors, I try to deconstruct that. And I said, don't build this special place that makes you uniquely. You're right. If you have the privilege of doing that, yeah, there's some prices that come with that. Yeah. But there's some great blessings that come with that.

100%. You're right. And the devil wants to isolate us all. And he wants to take our suffering and make the defining characteristic of our life. And I refuse. And I really enjoyed that. I think you help people find their way to the place of grace and God's intervention. And you don't leave them on that island of being victimized.

The devil will destroy us. He doesn't want to make a victim out of us. He wants to destroy us. Jesus is a redeemer. And you are pictures of redemption. I mean, so am I, but they don't know me as well. And I think that is so important. The way you do that, I mean, to make room in your family for different people to have platforms

and still call one another brothers and sisters and fathers and daughters and to incorporate a husband into that. Those are not easy things to do. And you have managed to do that. Everything that we're seeing right now was well planned and well prepared for. cared for. No, we don't want to talk about them. We don't want to talk about morals. We don't want to talk about the nuclear family. You know, we don't do politics. We just preach the gospel. What does that mean? We're to contend in culture. If we continue to stay quiet, there is blood on our hands, and I firmly believe that. Jesus said, I'll build my church and the gates of hell will not be able

to keep it out. This is our time. God has given us the truth, and we have an assignment to take that truth into our culture. It starts here in our churches. Jesus is Lord. God's Word is When we look at the news, we see the same story repeated on all the channels, each presented with a different slant, an obvious agenda. We need a fresh perspective, a biblical worldview on what's happening around us. How can we equip ourselves spiritually for all the changes at hand? We'll explore all of this and more this fall at the Culture and Christianity Conference. You'll leave equipped and prepared, ready to stand in your faith and make a difference wherever

God takes you. go to culture and Christianity.org to register. What are you learning these days? Where's the growth edge? I think we're, I mean, I feel like, so I have a podcast. I'm thankful for this podcast because I'm just growing and I'm learning, but with focus on the family. And so I, I call it's called Practice Makes Parent.

And my co-host is Danny Hoerta, who's the head of parenting there. So he's the doctor. He's the expert. And I get to be on this podcast and interview these guests that are experts, and I'm just absorbing this truth. So honestly, Pastor Allen, I feel just so hungry to kind of grow as a parent. Like I'm reading books about entitlement. I'm reading books about, you know, I don't know, just all aspects of parenting in wanting to just, with joy and with the knowledge of grace, the things that you're talking about, like,

just live in the space with my kids where they see a woman who's still trying to figure it out myself. Like I said to the kids the other day, like, you know what me and daddy? You're like, we're parents, but we're trying to figure it out. We're trying to go to God for this because we're learning too. You know, you're learning, you're growing, but we're learning to you. So I think that's where I'm out of just, I just feel like I'm in the middle of six different books right now, just trying to absorb all this wisdom while also trying to show grace to myself that I'm a learner as a parent, as a wife, as a person in ministry. I don't know.

I think that's where I'm at. I'm just going, I'm not going to get everything perfect, but God is going to instruct me and give me what I need for the different parts of my journey. Where would you say? You were at. Yeah, I said some of the biggest lessons right now are definitely coming through parenting, which is beautiful. I mean, I think it's such a beautiful design.

I mean, I think one of the most beautiful glimpses we can get of the father's heart is through parenting and through marriage and the fact that he called himself the bridegroom and the church the bride. So understanding his love through a marriage relationship is beautiful. And then you take it a step further when you invite children into the picture. And you see the heart of the father for his child and just that unconditional love that is just you can't fight it. You can't fight the willingness to be, you know, willing to die. for this child for no other reason than you love them. So being able to glimpse the father's heart through these relationships that's so beautiful. But then to be challenged to the core, I mean, marriage will challenge you in a certain way. God uses the challenge of marriage to rub away the

rough edges and bring you closer. And he does the same through parenting. And, you know, budding heads with strong-willed children will definitely teach you a lot. That skips a generation. You get that from their grandparents. Okay. Oh, yeah. We were not any of those. I know another thing that we're learning that has been in this season just in the last year and a half. Because we live here. We live nearby you now. We're like nine minutes away from this church.

I mean you're going to start talking like me? Maybe, y'all. Or maybe I'm going to start talking like you. You can do it. Oh, yeah. I've lived in Naishville for a while. But we're learning how to assess healthy yeses and healthy nose and how to slow down a little bit. I'm kind of obsessed with this idea of slow living.

as a kind of direct kind of response to how fast our culture wants us to go all the time and how we can almost look at other people's lives and go, well, they're doing this and this and this. And so maybe I should be doing all of that for my kids or with my kids or myself. And we can just get so crowded in our thinking. So we read The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John McComb. Have you read that? It's so great.

We were very challenged by it. And so in some ways, we're trying to slow down a bit and be present to our kids and learn more about Sabbath and learn more about what it means to sometimes say no to good things, good opportunities or no for the better. And yes to the right. So we're not always getting it right, but we're trying. That's our pursuit. We learn. We're all learners. Tell us the ages of your children.

11, 6, and 4. So two girls and a boy. Yeah. So we're coming into that preteen mode a little bit. Quickly. Yeah. Every season comes complete with challenges. Yes. That's true all the way through life. Yeah, it's true. And my mom went to heaven last summer. And I've watched my dad at 88 process a new season in his life. And it has reminded me that every season of life comes filled with challenges. You know, if we live in with this, there's some point ahead of us where it's all going to be better. or that we missed the best season. I won't accept either of those, because I think whatever place we find ourselves,

if we'll put the Lord in the middle of it, he'll find a way to bring his best to us. I love that. You all tell that story so well. So you're on a tour? Well, we did a little bit of a book tour with this. We did Good Morning America and Fox and Friends and 700 Club. And culture and Christianity.

Yeah, and culture and Christianity. I was just getting to the best one. I understood it. I shouldn't be sure. So, yeah, we took our kids to New York to do some of that, which was really sweet. Because we try to do what we do as a family, you know, so they come with us on a lot of stuff or one of the girls will come with me to Colorado to do the podcast. But I would love to hear what your advice is to us. You know, you're getting a feel for our season.

What's the goal that you would give to us? What comes to mind? Well, I, yeah. You've had to stand in some places I haven't. I mean, I recognize that, coming to the states and the pressures you faced. And I can't imagine what all of that was like. You know, I think the challenges that I see right now are we, it's a very disorienting time. You know, the values that have shaped our lives are not the most celebrated values in the midst of our culture.

It's true. And the places we would have looked to help to protect them have not done. They haven't been overly enthusiastic in doing that. Yeah. But we can't feel sorry for ourselves because I think the same is true in the scientific community, in the educational community, and in the financial community. I think the places we looked for for protection and integrity and all those arenas have kind of crumbled too. Yeah.

But in that, I think God's moving. Yeah. And now we're all trying to figure out what does that look like? And rather than be aggravated by it or mad because it's disruptive, I have to say, God, there's an opportunity in this. And so I spend as much time as I can with people that are saying yes to the Lord because I want to listen and I want to hear what they're hearing and see what they're choosing to help me put it in the filters.

And so the podcast for me and the things I do in the media have been very helpful to listen and learn. Yeah. Because I think God's writing a new chapter and I didn't know he was going to do that in our lifetime. You know, we talked a moment before they turned the mics on, I think, about the music business in the 90s and how different it is today. Very much.

You know, how your music is represented and how it's sold and promoted. I mean, completely different. And yet there's opportunities in it. And we can mourn what went away or we can celebrate what's here. And I think in the midst of the change, there's the greatest opportunities we've ever known. It's true. And then I meet young people like you that are giving your best to the Lord and honoring God in

in difficult places. And it gives me tremendous hope. That's why I want to turn the volume up on your message because the people that are coming behind you. I was in a conversation in church today with people I work with and there was an age difference. There was a handful of people. There's about 10 years between everybody and the older ones are all looking at the younger ones going, oh, you're so young. But we all need the affirmation that comes from the people that are around us. Yeah.

You know, if you're 10 years older than me, you're much, much older. If you're 10 years younger than me, you're about my age. That is true. It is true. I started with band guys that were like a decade or more older than me. And now I have that that are half my age. And I could be their mom, which is just insane. And I don't feel that.

No, we won't even talk about that. But God's moving in the earth. And we want to be engaged with that. And I see what he's doing in the arch with music and film and all the new platforms and the ways to communicate. And I think you all, that's why there's an anointing on your life. It's not done, it's beginning. Thank you.

And then you say, well, it's difficult. And I'm going, yeah, duh. I mean, none of our heroes made it without a difficult journey. You're right. Thank you. When Moses got recruited at the Burning Bush, you know, he's got a pretty good thing going. He's got a family and business. It doesn't seem like he's ambitious for anything else. And God recruits him.

And the best I can tell, he didn't have another easy day. Until God walked him up on Mount Piscay and, you know, had his moment. memorial service. I mean, he served the Lord well. I mean, the Bible says faithful in God's house. But he wasn't easy. And we got to stop putting our name down on the easy list. I agree. It's really good. I agree. And you all are doing that. You put yourselves on stage for Pete's sake. I mean, so people can talk about what you wore and your wardrobe and your hair and your music and the people who sing are going to have an opinion about that and production. You're up for critique.

When I watched Unsung Hero, I couldn't, I can barely watch a videotape of me doing a sermon. I mean, there's almost a visceral reaction. Yes, I don't like watching myself either. I'm country, I'm old. Why didn't somebody fix my clothes? I can't imagine doing a movie and having to watch that. I just, I thought it would put, I'd be in a, yeah. I cry every time. I cry every time.

So thank you. And don't stop. Okay. That's why I'm so interested in what's coming and what is becoming and your heart for the Lord. You've got a, you have a bigger view than I do. What do you see the Lord doing in the country? I mean, we do sense kind of what you're saying. I mean, it excites me when you're speaking to what you're speaking to that we're in such a unique time just with the platforms that are growing.

and I think Christians that are rising up, and I feel it here in Nashville, actually. We feel the pulse of it, but there's so many Christians that are in film and music that are coming to Nashville. And there's been a prophetic word around that, actually, that this will be a place of a center of influence, not just through music, but through film.

And so we're seeing that. And it is exciting times. Like there's these opportunities to make films that are speaking truth with a capital T, but in a way that people can hear that might be unchurched, that might not be necessarily in the Christian space, but they're going,

oh, there's something really wonderful about this. There's something lovely. There's something that I'm drawn to. And so, I don't know, what you're saying is resonating with us because he's in film and TV, and I'm in music, and we're partnering both of these things together.

and we're just seeing attraction right now that just feels new of Christians that are in spaces of influence in various forms of the arts that are kind of coming together and unifying and going something's got to change. There's got to be more that our kids can watch on TV and on films that actually has value. That's good, true, and beautiful. So I think we're passionate about that. We're seeing the rumblings and excited to be a part of it and see what God does next with us. That is awesome. Yeah, it is a unique moment in history, I believe. I mean, especially for the next four years under the current administration, I think there's an opportunity for us to really move the needle or allow God to move the needle

through our various giftings. But we've lived for, I love what you're talking about today, the truth storm. There really is a storm of truth happening. There's young people coming up that are desperate for authenticity. They're desperate for truth. And if you're truly seeking truth, you're only going to find it one place. There is only one capital T truth. And I think we have a little bit more freedom.

currently to present that capital of tea truth, there's a little bit less opposition to it. I think there's a little bit more openness to it. Obviously, it's still a fight. But I think we are excited to take advantage of this opportunity that we have for as long as it lasts and really be able to present truth in ways that can be creatively integris in ways that aren't the typical in the box. Cookie cutter type. presentation, just ways that I think will be resonant not only to the body of Christ, but beyond and connect with culture in ways that we haven't been able to connect in the past. I'm very excited about that. I think young people are spiritually seeking too. I'm hearing just, you know,

about the revival that's breaking out in different places around the world on college campuses. And I mean, that's exciting to me that, too, that people are, I don't know, spiritually seeking truth and seeking God and hungry. these pockets of revival are breaking out. So I don't know, it's a really interesting time to be alive. And I want to, you know, there's that concept of like joining God where he's already at work. He's already at work all around us. We've just got to look for what he's already doing and partner with him in what he's,

the part that he's called us to play in that. So I think that's, we're pretty passionate about trying to listen as best we know how. No, I agree. I think there are all these voices of truth that the Lord is raising up. I mean, you mentioned your podcast. I'm going to go find that. I didn't know about it. Practice makes parent.

Parent. With focus? Yeah. With focus on the family. Yeah. Parenting. But, you know, I think Ali Best Stuckey, Brandon Tatum, John Amman Chuku. I mean, there's this whole list of younger voices that God has given these platforms to outside of traditional.

You know, back in the day, you had to go to the behemoth companies and promise your obesity. to them in order to get an opportunity. And that day is gone. I mean, only God could have broken down those walls. And you mentioned the tension, you know, that it's still a battle. It's always been a battle. I think we've had a broken theology that told us there was going to be some point in the future who was like clear sailing and calm seas.

Right, right. And, you know, our Bibles are filled with this tension between good and evil, right and wrong, light and dark. You can choose the metaphor. We're the 21st century edition. Here we go. Here we go. So you were in South Africa.

Did you get to know Angus Buckin? I didn't. No. I'm sorry. No. Angus is a friend. I do. Yeah, okay.

He'll be back. Okay. So we'll get you connected when he comes back. Angus is a character. The book is lasting ever faith, music, family, and being found by true love. I haven't finished it, but just about it's worth the time and effort. My guest today are Cubby Fink. and Rebecca St. James.

Thank you, Pastor. I appreciate your courage to take the truth to our generation. We always wrap these podcasts up by, you know, what can we do? But I think you've given us that story, but you want to add anything to that? Everybody wants to know how to take their faith outside of church. I think listen to the Holy Spirit. I'd have a better idea. Are you sweet?

I think listen to the Holy Spirit, because it can be in a grocery store, you know. One of my homeschool mama friends is talking about just, seeing someone really hurting very obviously different kind of convictions about life and a lot of very obviously just walking a lonely path and hungry for an actual real conversation and she's just ministering in this grocery store just listening to this person. And so I just think there's these moments in our homes, outside our homes, at work, you know, on a plane, like just everywhere we are, if we're listening to the Holy Spirit, there's these kind of God moments where we can just be real about the real difference he's made

in us and shine the love. Well, I thank you both for your voices. You're making a huge difference. I know in this community of faith. Thank you very much. I appreciate the encouragement and your wise words. Yeah, you're doing a great job here. Proud of you as our brother and the Lord.

Well, thank you. And if you're listening, you know, don't let the disappointments of life or the patience that's often required of us. And my most consistent bitter complaint with God is about his timing. In the midst of the decisions, I'm not always happy with him. But I have to say at this point in the journey, God has always been faithful, and he'll be faithful to you. Taking our faith into our culture, not always fun, not always easy. God's not there to do what I want.

I'm here to do his bidding, to be a faithful servant to him. I believe that is the essence of culture in Christianity. And I would encourage you to cooperate with the Lord. you won't regret it. Hey, thanks for joining me today. Before you go, please like the podcast and leave a comment so more people can hear about this topic too. If you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to Alan Jackson Ministries YouTube channel

and follow the Culture and Christianity podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Together, let's learn how to lead with our faith and change our culture. I'll see you next time.