Culture & Christianity: The Allen Jackson Podcast - The Truth Behind Why Hamas Attacked Israel [Pastor Allen Interviews Ronny Simon]

Episode Date: February 17, 2024

Pastor Allen Jackson discusses the war in Israel with Ronny Simon, an Israeli historian who served in the Israel Defense Forces as a Lieutenant Colonel. The son of a holocaust survivor, Simon brings a personal perspective to the war, discussing its impacts on the region and the threats presented by Hamas and Hezbollah.More about Ronny Simon:https://www.israel-seminars.com/About.htmlSee Pastor Allen’s recent interview with Ronny Simon at World Outreach Church:https://www.youtube.com/live/5-k7vrvfxlk?si=zTtB5caBX9OMyK_C--It’s up to us to bring God’s truth back into our culture. It may feel like an impossible assignment, but there’s much we can do. Join Pastor Allen Jackson as he discusses today’s issues from a biblical perspective. Find thought-provoking insight from Pastor Allen and his guests, equipping you to lead with your faith in your home, your school, your community, and wherever God takes you.Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/3JsyO6ysUVGOIV70xAjtcm?si=6805fe488cf64a6dListen on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/culture-christianity-the-allen-jackson-podcast/id1729435597

Welcome to my podcast on culture and Christianity. You know, we're living in a world of some rather violent change. We've been saying that. But October the 7th, the events that happened in Israel when Hamas cut the fence in the border between Gaza and Israel, and hundreds of militant terrorists poured through the breach and brutally murdered over a thousand Israelis, Israel changed forever. It was the greatest loss of life, Jewish life,

in a single day since the Holocaust. You've got to think about that for a moment, folks. The magnitude of that is almost overwhelming. The awkward part of it, I was in the Washington, D.C. Embassy for Israel a few days ago. Israeli embassy there. And they said that the attackers knew the names of the people who lived in the houses. They knew their children, their names, their ages. They had a complete understanding of the neighborhoods that they invaded,

where they brutalized and murdered the people. The only way they could have done that was if they had the information from the people who've been coming from Gaza to work in those communities. So the people have been living amongst them, doing life with them, betrayed them to these murderous terrorists. And now Israel's left with that cleanup. The messaging we get in the news is confusing at best, and it's maddening most of the time.

You know, we continue to hear cries for humanitarian concerns for Hamas. If you write a charter for your organization that says you intend the genocide of any race of people, You don't qualify for humanitarian concerns. You have formulated a movement, a gathering, you've bound a group of people together around the annihilation of another group. You can't negotiate with that. You can't make a treaty with that. You can't make a plan with that. That has to be eliminated.

And now Israel's doing the hard work of that, trying to eliminate Hamas from Gaza, while the Hamas holds dozens and dozens of hostages. It's a horrible place. There's international pressure. There's pressure from the hostage families in Israel, appropriately so. There's the responsibility to the families of the idea of soldiers who are going into harm's way. You know, I have talked with a number of leaders, both in Israel and in the states. The U.S. is dictating the terms of engagement. They are actually at the table with the Israeli High Command, offering not just suggestions.

They are dictating the requirements for our terms of engagement if they're going to be resupplied with help from the United States. States. It's a very important time. If you're a friend of Israel or you have an interest in that, to be praying for the people in the land. Pray for the people in Gaza, too, that they will have the courage to stand up against Hamas. If you live in a place with a group of people who build their command structures under schools and hospitals, it's going to bring destruction to you. And there's just not an easy solution. And the world is a bit confused on this one. You know, we hear the calls for a ceasefire since the war in Ukraine began, in February of 2022, there have been over 500,000 casualties, 500,000 deaths. And we don't hear these daily or weekly calls for a humanitarian ceasefire in Ukraine.

Quite the opposite. We keep giving them billions of dollars of armaments to ramp up the war on Russia. So there's something different in this discussion with Israel. And I really think it probably goes back to the confusion we have about the state of Israel in general, because the Internet international idea, kind of the global political correctness, suggests that the Palestinian people had their land taken away from them. I'll give you just a couple of quick historical notes. Maybe it'll help. Palestine historically has been a word that referred to a region. It has never been a nation. There's never been a Palestinian capital or a Palestinian government. The word Palestine came from the Romans. They wanted to separate the Jewish people from their historic homeland. The Jews had a

capital in Jerusalem with a Jewish king on a throne for more than 1,500 years before Muhammad was even born. So the notion of a Palestinian state that was somehow disrupted by Israel is just bad history. Now, the people there have a right to live in a way where they can care for their families and prosper and flourish, but we don't, we're not going to accomplish that by creating history out of new cloth that doesn't reflect the reality on the ground. So again, if you're a Christ follower or a Christian, if you take a biblical worldview approach to this, you know, when we pray for the peace of Jerusalem,

we're not just praying for the peace of the Jewish people. We're praying for all the inhabitants of the Middle East, that they would all come to a revelation of Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah. It's not that we're trying to convince the Jewish people to convert to Christianity. We're praying that the Jewish people will recognize their Jewish Messiah. That is the transformation point in all of our lives, Jew or Gentile, whether we live in the Middle East or Tennessee. It's an important time to use your voice for your Jewish friends.

Anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has asserted itself on our watch in a way that we have not seen since World War II. In World War II, Europe gave up the Jewish community. And truthfully, the whole West did. we did our part in that. But nation after nation in Europe, cooperated with the Nazis in their attempts to round up the Jews, and a precious few people raised their voices or did anything to protect the Jewish community. So almost six million Jews lost their lives in the death camps of World War II. And we thought at the end of that war that we had put anti-Semitism at the back of the closet,

and we wouldn't have to see it again. And in recent weeks, we have seen leaders from some of the most prestigious schools in our nation, Harvard, MIT, Penn State, and others, refusing to condemn the Hamas attack on innocent Israeli civilians. I've watched the videos of that tack. It was the most brutal, heinous, cowardly behavior you can imagine. It's reprehensible. And in any individual that refused to condemn that behavior, they don't deserve a leadership role in any university. But anti-Semitism isn't new.

tragically the primary proponent of anti-Semitism through the centuries has been the Christian Church. And I think it's an important time now for the church to find our voice. Expressing support for the Jewish people is not expressing hatred for anyone else. It's simply saying that the Jewish people have a right to live in their historic homeland without having to live in fear of attack from brutal terrorist murderous organizations. Again, it's not condemning any. anybody, it's just acknowledging the Jewish right to be in that historic homeland. And the church has a role in that. We can't be silent.

Well, I'm excited to introduce my guest today. Ronnie Simone has been a friend of mine for a good while. He was a lieutenant colonel in the IDF, the Israeli defense forces. He's a historian of significance. And he understands the Middle East in a very unique way. He immigrated there when he was a boy about six years old from Romania. And so he has spent his life growing up in Israel, his adult life, serving in their military and as a businessman there, I think he'll help you understand what's happening in the Middle East today in a way that our news simply will not. Well, I am honored to have one of my dearest friends with me today. Ronnie Simone from Israel, Ronnie, we met as you were, I met

you first as a tour guide, but you're far more than that. You are retired from the IDF, the Israeli military, I think, as a lieutenant colonel. That is correct. That is correct. Correct. Yes. But you're a historian of, really of significance. I have studied at some, been fortunate to study some really nice universities, Vanderbilt, Hebrew University. And your grasp of the history of the Middle East and Israel and Jerusalem really is unparalleled. Thank you.

So I think introducing you as a tour guide is a gross understatement of the awareness you represent. So welcome back to Murphersboro and to the podcast. It's good to have you back. Well, thank you for having me. You know, I, beyond all of those things, friendship is probably one of the most treasured things in the world. And through some unlikely circumstances, I consider you one of my finest friends.

So it's really an honor to have you today. Well, that's mutual. We know each other for 20 years, Pastor, exactly 20 years. You were four and I was six. Oh, so you've been getting to know one another. Yes. Look at us now. Well, Israel is in the news again,

and not for the best of circumstances. On October the 7th, I really think Israel changed. And I'm sure you understand that better than I do. But maybe can you just talk about that a minute, why that attack from Hamas was such a transformation, I really think, of the future of Israel? Well, we're still in the process of digesting what happened.

And right now, the idea is that let's wait with all the questions, let's wait until the war is over. So nobody's asking yet the tough question. But there are some tough questions to ask because October 7th of 2023 was the one day in our history that everything collapsed. Nothing worked, absolutely nothing. And you can analyze that from the military perspective, the social one, the financial one, you name it. Nothing worked right that day. And the different reasons and there are ways to view that.

But the fact that civilians that were promised by the government that the army is protecting them, were celebrating a holiday, living under rocket file for 20 years, agreeing to live in such conditions and pay the price for that. They thought that at least nobody is going to knock on the door and kill them while they're sleeping in the bed. And that's what happened. It would have because of many reasons. But through the wars of 1948 and 56 and 67, 73, the mighty Arab armies, no Israeli community

was ever conquered. And now we have a bunch of, I will say, the Gazan mob following the command of the Hamas murderers, entering to these homes and do whatever they want in them for hours without anybody stopping them, killing people, raping women, butchering, beheading babies. This is something that we did not in a worse nightmares. We thought it's going to be maybe an attack, maybe take a hostage or two,

but to lose 1,400 people in one day, in one day to a music festival and take hostages into Gaza, they're only five miles away. We have no idea what happened to them. This is something that we did not anticipate. And we know tension, we know wars, we take casualties. This is a price to pay to be in Israeli,

a price if you are proud to pay, but not what happened on October 7th. So when people really understand what happened, because we're sitting in the state of a shock. Right now there was a war, let's finish that, and then start asking questions. Maybe we should ask the questions, right now and not wait until the war is over.

Questions that on different level, political, etc. Who is responsible? How come the writing was on the wall? We decided to ignore that. Was there a plan behind? And this is also a photograph for conspiracy theories. When things are so wrong, you hear all kind of really stupid things being brought out. And some people will believe that.

So for the well-being of our nation, when you have those conspiracy theories, that can be devastating. and you hear it already. Yeah, I think, and I don't want to spend a lot of time highlighting it, but what happened was really barbaric. I mean, the way, the people that came out of Gaza, calling them people as generous, the attack that came from Gaza and Hamas, was heinous what they did.

I mean, piles of bodies they set on fire. They abused women and children. and for Israel to maintain their peace and their independence in the Middle East, that cannot be allowed to stand. They have to respond to Hamas. I mean, you have to eliminate Hamas, it seems like to me. Is that fair? Well, when you say that we will never live under a threat of a terror entity on our borders,

the outcome of this statement is that Hamas on the south and Hezbollah in the north will not be close to our borders or will not be at all. So that would be the official policy now And there was a complete solidarity And complete unity in the nation right now That should be the goal We don't have any other choice Because these people are not coming back home

And these people are the pioneers People that went down to the San Jones And tell them into paradise By paying the price for them And the army, the government promised them You're safe, we'll take care about your protection The army is here to protect you The army wasn't there.

So yes, it's a lot of it. It's just show me one country in the world that we live in such circumstances. No, it's impossible. And I think in America, it's difficult for us to imagine because our enemies are across the ocean. Or we imagine they're across the ocean. I don't think that's true anymore. I think they've come across our border. But in Israel, your enemies are three or four miles away.

And so it doesn't take a great deal of time or effort to close that gap. It's just a completely different relationship. Well, if I may correct you, Pastor, our answer. enemies are not three four miles away. Our enemies are visitors in our homes because Israel gave working permits to people from Gaza. 18,000 people came to work every day in those communities. So we fed them and they spied on us and these people led the attack. They knew exactly where to go. They knew the communities because they worked there. They knew the names of people. They had pictures of people that they wanted to find. So it's not that three, four miles away.

They were literally in our homes, guests of people that too care about their families. and simply sustain them with everything they need. Israel provides medical treatment to people in Gaza. They can come to the borderline and people went to drive them to the hospitals. So one of the people who is a hostage in Gaza now, 85 years old, that was his life mission, to drive down to the border crossing every day

to look for people from Gaza that need medical care and drive them to the Berksheba hospital. And he's now in a tunnel for more than 100 days, 85 years old. How many hostages did they take? Well, the number was 249, but you need to understand this unusual dynamic. If you cannot identify, if somebody is missing, you have two options.

Number one, he died, but we did not find Aaron Raines because of the big fires that consumed everything. Number two, we didn't find him yet. Number three, he's in Gaza alive or is in Gaza dead. So when the IDF reported about the increasing number of casualties, it started with 249 hostages. We did not know how many life, how many dead. And then you look for somebody,

and you don't find any remains of it on the Israeli side. So you assume it may be in Gaza. So the number goes to 250. And then they brought about five bodies that were found in the Buffazzo. It goes down to 245. It was horrible. Every day the numbers change. Right now it's 136.

And we know for a fact that at least 26 of them are dead. Wow. But if there's a silver lining to all of the horror, I think Israel was every bit as divided as the United States is. but as a result of October the 7th, at least for the moment, you're standing together, you've put aside your political differences and you're working together, which I think has to bring some healing to the nation. Maybe it will. Maybe it will, but as you said for the time being,

because once this is over, and it will be over sooner or later, I don't see that anything will change in the motivation of the two leading blocks in the other society. And I'm afraid I'm more concerned about the well-being of our people, people after the war is over. And now we're going to try to make peace within us because somebody is to be blamed. Somebody should have responsibility. I'm talking about an individual, a government, a way of life, a certain policy. And these, somebody, let's make it plural, simply to be generous, do not take responsibility. The chief of general staff stepped forward the following day and said, this was my job to protect civilians I'd failed. In other words, I'm going to lead this army for victory

and then I'm going home. It was my mission. I failed to complete my mission. I wish politicians will have the same kind of integrity because the army is serving the politicians and the army is influenced

by a policy that the government is setting up. And you can maybe argue about the wisdom, but bottom line, you do as you're told by the civil commanders or the civil leaders.

That's how it puts in democracy otherwise it's a coup. And it was just a certain tone for the last 15 years that said that Hamas in Gaza is an asset while the PLO in the West Bank is a liability. And the plan was divide and conquer. Let's try to keep them divided.

So it would be easier to deal with them one at a time. So they won't be united. So that was the idea behind it. It's a legitimate policy. But the outcomes were horrible. Hatred overcomes policies. Oh, yes. The hatred of Hamas for the Israelis, the Jewish people in the Middle East is greater

than any policy. You know, this week it's hard to talk about what's happening in terms of success because you lost 20 more soldiers in an attack. 21 yesterday, yeah. But I think in general, your progress has been pretty remarkable in changing Gaza and starting to clean out those tunnels. And are you pleased with what's happening? Well, I'm no longer a professional soldier as I was for a while,

and I don't have inside information. But the tone was even among Israeli politicians that we should. should be satisfied with air strikes, send the army in. Boots on the ground, we are not prepared for that. We don't know what is waiting for us in Gaza. You don't want to go to the casbahs and go down to 500 miles of tunnels.

Completely booby trap. You just don't know how to fight it because no army in the world ever tried it. And there was, indeed, it's not going to lack of confidence, can the army deliver. And you listen to the field commanders and they're really insulted,

but the Air Force, a very important part of the army, But what about it? We can do the job. And sometimes you have to have boots on the ground. You cannot clear a tunnel and try to separate hostages from terrorists from the airplane. You need to be in there. And Hamas's estimate was, as we see, documents,

that we lose in the first week of the invasion between 6 to 700 soldiers. And at least 500 tanks will be damaged one way or the other. Every life that loss is heartbreaking. We just crossed the 200 soldiers' casualties line last week. week. So Hamas is in a way surprised by the tactics that we are using and it had to be developed as we are moving, learning, improving. And again, I think that armies are going to come and learn how to do it right. The fact that you can, I'm looking for the right term here, but if you're just a soldier in the field, you're not even a platoon commander, and you have access to a drone,

and the drone can tell you exactly what happens behind the house next to you. And you can call a helicopter a gun ship with your drone to take those out before they even opened fire on you. No army ever fought like that. If you have enough technology to send the time we build a mosquito-side drone into a tunnel just to take photos inside to see what happens.

And we're working quite a lot with dogs as well. Dogs are trained for the mission and before the troops go in because these tunnels had to be blown up. Sooner later, we want to make sure that you are not killing hostages. And if you send a dog in, the dog is not coming back, you understand that there's something in there. And then

the ground troops. So this kind of four, the closest one maybe was in Mosul. In Iraq, when was it, six, seven years ago. And even back then, the U.S. was supporting the, providing the air support. The work on the ground was done by Iraqi proxy militias, all right? There was a cooperation there. And they don't care about life. They just go in and blow up everything.

And they do not have to do with tunnels. So tunnels is the new factor. Equipment, ammunition, training. And yes, so far, it's a way. working, but it will take a long time. It's a lot of hard work, dangerous. I know, you know, I think the world imagines that Israel is determining your own policies and your procedures, but in reality, I think the U.S. is doing a lot to dictate the rules of

engagement. Can you talk about that just a little bit? Yes, there are few things that for me came as a surprise. And again, I guess for everybody. And once again, I don't have any inside information. I'm not an official Israeli spokesperson. I did not know that you're officially part of the U.S. Army SETCOM. We are part of the Central Command of the USFA and to have American military staff

attending staff meetings of the Israeli army. That's new. That's new. And it comes with a price. And I understand it. If you want the support of the USFA and you want the money support as well and the flow of weapons and ammunition, it comes with a price tag. And this price tag is basically to show the world, right, to set some rules how a democracy is fighting a war. problem is the American army never met those demands neither the British one or any army for democracy was ever fighting under such restrictions. It just, it really cannot be done. So we understand that it's an election year and we understand that the president has to please some of members in his party, etc. And maybe it's only an out saying they're more flexible behind closed doors.

I honestly don't know. But to make those lists of terms, all right? Number one, minimize collateral damage, we do. We don't want to go after innocent civilians if anybody knows what that means in Gaza, all right? Number two, in order to protect people's lives, we give them a 48 hours warning, leave your homes, there was a safe place to go to, we provide you with food and fuel and whatever you need over there. So everybody who stays behind is a legitimate enemy. So the U.S. says, you cannot do that.

It's almost like exiling people. It doesn't look right. On the other hand, try not to go after civilians. do it quickly if you can, please, and open a humanitarian corridor and send in as much food as you can when you know that most of the food is seized by Hamas.

The food is not really going to the people that need the food, so you're going to make it longer than necessary. Otherwise, and it's going to take, you will not go to save any lives, number one. You're going to make it much longer. And instead of finish that as quickly as possible,

it's going to go on and on and on. So the few things that that I have a hard time to understand. Well, it's inexplicable. It's political, again. Imagine that. But I think that's a very real part of this story, that U.S. policy has helped emboldened Hamas.

You know, first we had the Abram Accords, and there was some strengthening of relationships with Israel and the Saudis and some other players, and at that time, Iran was being diminished. And then with our current administration, they've given billions of dollars to Iran. They've taken down the sanctions. And Iran wants to reassert their dominance in the region.

So their proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah with the money that the U.S. has given them are flexing their muscles and the Israelis are paying the prices with their lives. So I think our country, and I hate to say this, speaks out both sides of our mouths. We're your friends, but we also give dollars that make it possible

for Iranian proxies. to slaughter innocent Israelis. So you're caught in the middle of all of this international garbage. It was always the case. This is not something new. But yes, I think that this one is really unique and special because it's something that the world has not seen yet. And this is, we try to convince everybody,

this is not a local problem. It's a global issue. And a thing that the world begins to understand. And if it was not a global issue, then the U.S. would have not sent two carriers to sail very close to our waters just as a warning. And then you look at the Houthis in Yemen, a thousand miles away, a country that most people, one of the poorest countries in the world, but they have ballistic missiles. So you do see how the tension is kind of growing.

Turkey is not a friend anymore for many years. It wasn't. Turkey is officially hosting Hamas terrorists in Turkey, Qatar, which is a true villain of the because all the money is coming from Qatar. So it's not just Israel and Israeli borders. It's something much, much bigger. Because if commodities are not going to go through the Suez Canal, because the Houthis are bombing those ships, et cetera,

the whole world is going to feel it. Prices will rise off everything. Because almost everything comes from China, the Far East, to Europe, to the U.S. So it's something much bigger than a limited Israeli problem. When you said Qatar is the villain in all of this, that their funding is coming from that. They explain that a little bit more.

Well, again, I'm not an expert on Qatari issues, but here is what Qatar is officially doing, all right? Qatar is a country that has about 3 million people that live in Qatar. Qatarians are about 200,000. The others will be people that come to work and to enrich the aristocracy, if you wish, of the Qataris. They want to be part of the global economy. They have the money to do that. They do understand that they are not going to use gas forever, and the world is looking for some other materials,

and they're not going to use petrol forever. They're looking for places to invest, and they look to places to spread the, I would say, the Muslim revolution. There are Sunnis, not Chiayas. But still, they've been investing a fortune in education. They buy soccer teams in Europe, like the Emirates, and they try to be legitimate player in the region. But once you give, donate, whatever,

to American universities and Europe, more than $4.7 billion. You can dictate in a way what will be the agenda, curriculum, who will be the professors, and a lot of young Americans, great kids, I'm sure, very intelligent, et cetera,

are exposed to a plan, which is definitely not a plan of peace. And radical Islam is taking root in Europe and here in America as well. So Qatar always tried to be behind the scenes. They don't want to take the front line. Now they try to be the honest broker and to try to mediate and negotiate with the hostages.

So Iran may come out with more boldness and right in your face, what's their agenda. And they don't have a hidden agenda. It's right in your face. But you can speak about radical Islam. Somebody has to pay for it. Iran doesn't pay for it anymore. It used to be Saudi Arabia for a long time, not anymore.

It's Qatar. Qatar is the one which is behind most of the finances. They've given hundreds of millions of dollars to Hamas on a regular basis. Legally, every month, $30 million, came into Israel without consent. And these are the salaries paid to Hamas officials in the Gaza Strip. But most of the money came in illegally, and that's a big money that came in it. And I think that they knew how the money is being used.

They cannot say we gave billions, and we don't have a clue. We don't care. They use the money somehow. No, no. They know all too well how the money was used. You mentioned the $4.7 billion. They've invested in universities in America and Europe. I think one of the ugly parts of this story is the expressions of anti-Semitism.

in the U.S. And we've seen it at our most elite universities, Harvard and MIT and Penn State. And we saw those presidents before Congress refusing to denounce the murder of innocent Israelis.

Jews. Jews. Jews. Yes. That was shocking. I mean, I could not believe my very eyes. And I forgot the name of the Congresswoman that was conducting the hope. She gave them every chance to regret it, to approach it from a different approach

they repeat the same mantra again and again and again depends on the context so if the circumstances are right a Jewish genocide once again is legit in America 2023 it's not you know I pray that we have the moral courage to face

anti-Semitism is a fancy word it seems kind of anti-step septic to me I prefer just to call it what it is the hatred of the Jews and I think we have to be as tolerant of that as you are intolerant of Hamas on your borders. We can't allow it to stand. I pray that the funding for those universities that continue to protect that evaporates, that the people have the moral courage to do it. And I'm sure most of our listeners don't know, and I'll save it for another time. But the great incubator for the hatred of the Jewish people

has been the church through history. And it's an awkward part of our history. And you're too polite to talk about it, but I can talk about it. And it's one of the good things that's happened in recent decades is there's a friendship between the Jewish people and some segments of Christianity that is really unique in history. I don't know that we've stood together in this way in a long, long time. And I pray that out of this horrific event, that respect and love and appreciation from one another grows. But we'll have to tell the truth about it, and we'll have to confront it in our local, stop talking about Harvard and face it in our local communities and our local congregations. It's just wrong. Well, again, this is something that I don't have a say about,

and I just don't know enough, but from the Israeli part, not even the Jewish, the Israeli part, I come from a generation that was indoctrinated in a certain way. And we are the sons and daughters of Holocaust survivors. And Israel was a young state, and it looked like the whole world is against us. So that's how we're educated in schools, that we have no friends and the Christian world is one homogeneous world who are not friends of the Jewish people. And that was a certain way to educate the whole generation to stick together because we need to protect our country and we all by ourselves. I think that people today are much more open to understand that we do have true friends among evangelical Americans, Israelis today are willing to listen. If you approach

an Israeli kid and start sharing about Jesus, he'll be willing to listen. And that was not a case when I grew up. It was just something that we had to stick together because the world is not a friend. So things are different now. Things are different now. People may not be that familiar with American politics, but it is, you know, the evangelical movement of strong and supporters of the state of Israel. I'm ashamed to say that sometimes more than some elements of the Jewish American community.

Well, communities in general are hard to. Individuals make up those communities, so we have to live with that. But let's go back, because I think your story would be helpful. I think a lot of people would be interested. World War II, from the Jewish perspective, what the Jews suffered was at the hand of the Christians. I mean, Hitler was a baptized Catholic. It was Christian Europe that abandoned the Jewish population and allowed them to be rounded up and shipped to extermination camps. So that looked to a, you know, I suppose today we would say, well, those weren't good Christians,

but that distinction is lost on the people who were being hunted and abandoned. So coming out of World War II, when the modern state of Israel was born, and you began to immigrate back, your description was you felt like the world was against you. The world was against you. The world looked the other way while you were being rounded up and six million Jews exterminated. Your family immigrated from Romania? Yes, in 1962. I was born in Romania.

and as a couple of Zionists, my mom and dad, it was obvious that when the opportunity is there, it wasn't easy to live Romania back then after the Iron Curtain fell, was a communist country obviously, and they would not let people that can be productive in the right age to live Romania. So they waited 11 years just to get the permits. Meanwhile, they had me. So I was five years old when we left Romania and started a journey by train, by boat, to go to Israel, to go home, basically. So you have been a part of seeing Israel emerge as a nation. That's a remarkable story in one lifetime.

Well, when you put it in these words, I guess I was witnessing that, although you don't really notice that when it happens, it just happens to you, so we are very much in it. But, yeah, we were sent first to a kind of a camp of new immigrants, and we lived in a kind of small hut, and there was no pavement inside this little cabin. And we had to go a few hundreds of years to get some water. but my grandmother, my father's mother,

was in Israel since 1951. And after we made contact, we left that area and went down to Tel Aviv, lived in one bedroom house, six of us. We left with my parents and my other grandmother from my mother's side and she, one big bed,

five feet, yeah, five feet, and then we moved to the town that I lived in most of my life. That's Batyam's south to Tel Aviv. Yeah. And as a kid, my parents used to tell me that, you know, you go to play with the kids. I couldn't not speak the language. And kids are not very friendly sometimes when somebody's kind of, so I just used to come home, all beaten up by the kids and crying.

And my dad said, well, if they beat you up, you beat them back. So that was my first lessons in Israeli. That would be accepted, right? But I do not remember the just stories that I heard how you try to accommodate in a society of immigrants. Speaking about the melting part, Israel is in a. the melting part. But it has to be remarkable to have been a part of it.

I visited Israel the first time in 1970. And it was such a different country. Most of the roads were two lanes. Your agricultural is still very underdeveloped, mostly citrus. You know, the Jaffa oranges. I ate them until I got sick. But I mean, today Israel is one of the most sophisticated

countries in the world. Your high-tech development, rival Silicon Valley, your militaries, the envy of much of the world, your agricultural production sets the standards for the world. Well, I guess I misunderstood your question then earlier. No, no, yes. You see that and you just think if it was no that much pressure around us, if you could actually dedicate all of our resources and all of our skills and for the benefit of everybody,

for the benefit of the whole world, if you wish, we could have accomplished much more. But we spend that much money on security and on protecting ourselves. and we really want to be a light for the nations. The problem is that the nations right around us don't want to have this light. But again, anybody who is interested to enjoy Israeli whatever we produce, whatever we make,

you know, we are number three in the world in absolute numbers in vegetables and fruits, not per capita, absolute numbers. And that's coming from a desert country. Israel was covered by swamps and maushes and the land was really not hospitable. people worked very hard to do there. You start this sudden eating water from the military and sea.

Water was the main obstacle that you could not grow anymore than there. We drink water from the sea. It's good water. So yes, you see the motivation, you see the zeal of the people. And there was a reason why we are there. We are there really not just to survive, but to keep growing. And to deliver a message. We want to be a light for the nations.

And I hope that we are setting a decent example. So people call us sometimes in apartheid state. My first response is you're idiots. Very simple. It's not just, you know, just come and visit. Just come and visit. I understand that you do that because somebody brainwashed you. You don't have a clue.

It's so easy to prove the opposite. I mean, they call us by names and they're just saying, that's ignorance. People that say that we are in the part I say is an ignorant individual. Very simple. You didn't take the land away from the Palestinians. Well, there were no Palestinians. We didn't take the land away from anybody. Number one, it's coming back.

back home. The land was in Jewish hands. Our existence as a nation was in the land of Israel under some circumstances we had to leave because the Roman Empire defeated the Jewish rebellion, etc. So coming back home, 90 years later, we did not come back to a foreign

land. We came back home. Nevertheless, we purchased land from local Arab landlords for astronomical prices, a land that was worth nothing. Just a wasteland. So the Jews came and stole the land for the Palestinians. Nonsense. Number one, there were no Palestinians.

We speak about a province in the Ottoman Empire. The term Palestinian as a nation, maybe was brought up for the first time, 1946, 47. These were Arabs that lived in the province called Palestine. In their literature, they're called South Syrians. Palestine was South Syria. So we speak about a nation which has its definition as a nation. And they never thought of themselves as a nation.

So why would anybody else give them such recognition? Well, today, five hundred people call themselves a nation, who am I to tell them you're not? It doesn't really help to solve the problem. But there's so much ignorance out there, and people just don't know, which is really frustrating. We'll keep telling the story. Well, people need to be educated. Maybe this is part one. We'll get you back for another session.

How about that? Right now, there's not much work in my field in Israel. But thank you for the opportunity. I think that people really need to know that. And once again, information is out there. It's so easy to check and confirm everything. And people tell, well, of course, if an agenda, we cannot trust you. Don't trust me, all right?

Go and do your study. Go and do your study. The facts are out there. Well, right now Israel's focused on Gaza in the South. Then neither of us are prophets. But I think it's unlikely this conflict ends without Hezbollah in the North getting involved. Does that seem probable to you? Well, they're involved already.

I mean, the day after Hamas attacked in the global 7th, Hezboa, open fire as well. Officially, there was no reason unless it was Iran that gave the order which is possible. And when Nasarallah,

the leader, came on TV about a week later, he said that what happened was an exclusively Hamas operation. We are not involved in it. But we want to take some pressure of them. That's why we open fire. And if Israel dares to go into Gaza, then we're going to go to

full-scale confrontation. But it didn't happen. They have a lot to lose. And Chisbalah used to be a militia, like a civil in the state. But now they are integrated into Lebanese politics. They have ministers in the parliament. They are part of Lebanon.

So they can no longer make the distinction. Because if we go to war against each other, our hands won't be tied behind our backs. We're not fighting a militia. We're fighting Lebanon as a country. And most Lebanese don't want it to happen. They know what may happen in Lebanon. And in practical terms, that means

before when you dealt with Hezbollah, you tried not to mess with the Lebanese infrastructure, bridges and power and water. But now that they're integrated into the Lebanese government, if you're forced to respond against Hezbollah, you'll respond against that infrastructure, which means people are going to suffer. Yeah, there'll be no limits. And I think they know that. So there's a lot of pressure in Lebanon on Hezbollah not to escalate the situation, but it's been escalated every day. Now, I have to say that anyway, this is going to end. Chisbalah may not cease to exist but their troops have to be at least

20 miles away from our borders because we will not live under a possible surprise once again as it happened with Hamas. And it's not going to work by clever diplomacy. They're not going to do that. And it leaves only one option. I mean, we evacuated 70,000 Israelis

from communities who are taking direct hits by anti-tank rockets into the homes. These people won't go home unless they know for sure the lives are not in danger and that's the country's obligation. That's important, Ronnie, the people don't know that.

70,000 Israelis today that live in the northern part of Israel have been evacuated. So while we're telling you, you can't say to the people in Gaza, you should be evacuated. The Israelis have left their homes. They're living in hotels or wherever.

60,000 in the Gaza area, 70,000, the Lebanese border. We have more than 100,000 Israelis who are refugees in a way. Think about schools. Think about education. out of schools, their families are disrupted. Well, you know what?

I'm most surprised about the level of ingenuity and the improvisation and how things are working, but it shouldn't be like that. Things are work because everybody wants to help. And in the South, we speak about a kibbutz, which is a community. It's important that the community will carry on as a community. So in some cases, they could evacuate the whole community to one hotel. At least they live together. And there are good people.

They know exactly how to take care about the business. They get organized. very well. So they have their own schools, etc. But those people evacuated from the town of Zderot, for example. They are not that strong of society. They don't have that organization. So nobody takes care about and the country. The state is not really

functioning. Everything is volunteer. Civilians that try to do whatever possible. The state was supposed to provide at least funding and they hesitate. And that's politics in Israel as well. So yes, unless the borders are quiet. Because the official, the government said that those Israelis

from the Gaza's repair can go back home, it's safe. They're not going home. They will not go home until they know beyond any doubt, not a rocket. The way they put it was, we don't even want to have a fence between Gaza and us. We want to see the sea. We don't put any to protect us. We want to make sure that there's no motivation in Gaza to attack us once again. That would be hard to accomplish, that motivation issue. But they're not coming back home. And the government is paying for the accommodation, but they won't do it forever. So they need to pay for themselves. There's a lot of things to consider. It's a whole healing process that we take a long time and the most important one

to rebuild the trust. These people do not trust the state. They do not trust the military. They serve in the army, right? Their kids. And to rebuild the trust, that would be the biggest challenge. Well, I want you to know, and I know you and I understand, but for our listeners, that there are, the majority of Americans love the Jewish people and our advocates for the state of Israel. and the knuckleheads that have been protesting or stand in front of the cameras with their signs do not represent the hearts of most of us. We thank God for you.

And as usual, when I talk to you, I get a bit of a history lesson, I get a little window into current Israeli affairs. And you have many friends in America. We do know that. We appreciate that. We know that. And again, without too much politics,

presidents come and go, as long as the people as people are supporting the, let's go to your dear Christian principles and understand democracy, et cetera. We know that we have. Somebody is watching our backs and we have some good support in the USA.

And I truly do believe the one who watches over Israel, neither slumbers nor sleeps. Amen, so it's 121. That's a good son. At the end of the day, you have a far better protector than America. That's important to know.

Thank you, Ronnie, for coming to see us again. Thank you for the opportunity to share. We got to make kind of a micro-trip to Israel today without any jet lag. That's a blessing. You've never visited the land of Israel. I would encourage you to do that. It's not really a tour.

It's transformational. If you're a Christian, it'll change your faith. If you're not, it'll give you an understanding of the Middle East and what's happening there in a way that you just can't glean from our news. When we do these podcasts, my primary reason for taking the time and engaging is to do my best to help us understand what we can do. We're not powerless. You know, we hear the question phrased a little differently.

Well, what can I do? And that always feels desperate to me. If we approach it with this notion of what we can do, there are things we can do that make a difference on what's happening in the Middle East, that what happens with the Jewish community. And first and foremost, use your voice. There are Jewish people in your sphere of influence.

Let them know you're praying for the peace of Jerusalem. Let them know that you think what happened to Hamas by Hamas was reprehensible, that it's indefensible, that there is no justification for that kind of murderous behavior. Use your voice in your friend circles. Maybe if it's a Christian setting or a Sunday school class or a small group, you pause and pray for the peace of Jerusalem in the Middle East. Don't just be passive. Don't just watch the news and get agitated.

God has given you a voice and a sphere of influence. And if you will take the truth that God gives to you into that sphere, we'll begin to change the world in which we live. Hiding behind the walls of our home being agitated in front. frustrated is not a solution. So let's turn back this notion. If you hear somebody being critical of the Jewish people, be their ally and their advocate. You know, I didn't understand the degree to which the Jewish community felt isolated until I lived in Israel for a while. I was at Hebrew University, and a lot of my friends were Jewish students that had come over from America.

And as I got to know them and I listened to them, I came to understand how isolated they had felt in the United States as U.S. citizens, they spoke English better than I do, and yet they had this very real sense of isolation in the midst of the larger population. And so it was one of my takeaways that I had to be more intentional about building friendships and relationships in some of those places that I had been just unaware of. Your voice matters. You can make a difference. Your prayers change heaven and earth. We're not power. I'm doing these podcasts because I believe the God of heaven and earth changes what happens in our lives in our short journey through time. And so if you'll use your voice and you'll pray and you'll use

that influence in the places God gives it to you, he'll multiply your influence. Our friends in Israel today, they need your prayers, they need your encouragement, and they need your friendship. And with God's good help, we'll offer that. God bless you.