Culture & Christianity: The Allen Jackson Podcast - What America's Founders Actually Believed About God

Episode Date: July 31, 2026

What if the future of America depends on remembering the truth about its past? Pastor Allen sits down with bestselling author Eric Metaxas to uncover the forgotten story of America's founding, the biblical convictions that shaped the nation, and why character—not just politics—has always been essential to preserving freedom. Discover what the Founding Fathers actually believed, how faith influenced the American Revolution, and why these lessons matter now more than ever.

How can we be laboring in the dark for decades, not understanding that this is the founding of the nation? There was a consequence for standing up, and it had to do with comfort and convenience. It wasn't just principle. How do I live in a free nation? How do I keep freedom? How do we govern ourselves? How does that work? Well, you know, the ultimate instruction book is the Bible.

Where did all the ideas of the revolution come from? The Bible. And if you want to know why we're losing our liberties or you want to know why things are crazy, while we're on this kind of crazy war with the insane left, it is because we have forgotten this. Let's go back and let's become a nation that celebrates this history. Welcome to Culture and Christianity. We have a treat today.

I have my friend Eric Mataxis with us. Welcome back to Tennessee, Eric. Thrilled to be here. You know, I was trying to remember. We met the first time I remember meeting, you were doing your tour promoting Bonhofer. Yeah. And how the world has changed, how God has blessed our lives.

I mean, there's more than water under that bridge. Yeah. But you have a new tome. Yeah. I love the tiny books you write. This one is Revolution. Yep. You need to see this part of the book, too.

Yeah. I have read it. It's doable. Well, listen, I'm telling you, Alan, I have to say this up front because people don't believe it. I cannot tell you how many people have said to me, I couldn't put it down. It's a page turner. It reads like a novel.

That as a writer, that's the greatest thing you could hear. But I've heard that with it. Even if you just read the Amazon reviews, I mean, I'm not soliciting them. So I, listen, I'll say this up front too. It's an amazing true story. It's inspiring.

It's encouraging. So I would encourage people to read it. And then I will bully them into reading it. Because it's our, we have to read it. I mean, we have to know. We have to know our history. I say this emphatically, but whatever. Can we send a copy to the lady at the Smithsonian?

Oh, can you even have a little trouble interpreting our history? I said, lady, I was being very generous to that woman that's directing the Smithsonian. Now listen, these people are, they're crazy. They have bought into the propaganda over decades. Basically, it's why I wrote the book. I said, we need a true accounting of the story. We haven't been getting that. In our lifetime, we've gotten a lot of crazy negativity and a lot.

And the true story is beautiful. It is. So I just wanted to tell that story. I want to get to the story, but it's more than that. They're not crazy. They're intellectually dishonest. It's a spectrum. Some of them are intellectually dishonest.

You're absolutely right. Some people are just deceived. It's a spectrum. It's just a spectrum. It's a spectrum of crazy. You're kind today. Well, but no, but I mean, it really depends because you talk to some people, and you and I've had this conversation there, some people do not understand certain things. And so even if it's in front of them, they can't read it.

It's like reading Chinese. When they see the language of faith, it doesn't compute. Now, there are some people that just hate the language of faith. But there are other people that genuinely don't get it. They just don't get it. And so they kind of ignore it and, you know, talk about what they understand. I believe that. But, you know, if you dabbled in the occult, whether you do it intentionally or not,

I think you get spiritual impediments and make it almost impossible to understand it. You know, I agree. But that's another podcast. Yeah. Yeah. So the revolution, this is readable. I started out to do the cheat like I do when I have lots of books to read. I was going to read every fourth chapter.

And I got up and I thought, to heck with this, I want the rest of the story. You're missing all the good jokes. All the good jokes are in the second and third chapters. It pulls you in. It's a narrative that pulls you through. and you get to know the people. By the time you get to the end, there's not a lot of history books I read

that bring tears to my eyes. And I know the story of Washington's farewell speech when he pulls his glasses out of his pocket. But when you're telling that story again, I've got tears running down my face. And I'm thinking, okay, Eric made me cry. I will confess when the camera's running. Well, listen, this is all true.

This is not a novel I wrote. This is all true. I just found what I think is the most exciting, important, humorous, you know, stories and just put it all together. But I think that we're, I keep saying this, we're responsible for this information. This is not extra credit. I didn't write this book for history buffs. I wrote the book for Americans.

If you're an American, you need to know this stuff. If you can get this information better in a better place than this book, go for it. But I just said, I want to put everything in one book so that everybody in the year of our super centennial 250th. can refamiliarize themselves. And listen, I think it's an encouragement to us at this season, which frankly we need. We do. So why the revolution?

You mentioned that in your seven men book, you had a chapter on Washington. Well, it was just a weird, I never in my life ever thought I would write about the American Revolution, never even crossed my mind once. And then about a little bit over two years ago, a friend of mine, very close friend, I mentioned him in the acknowledgments page, said to me that he had just read my chapter on George Washington in my book Seven Men. And he said he was so moved by it. He says, Eric, you need to write the whole story of the revolution. Now this friend, Seth Ward, when he talks, I listen.

He's a very, very dear soul. As opposed to like your friend Alan Jackson. Well, no, because I have friends, millions of friends that they have ideas for books. But there's something about Seth, if you know him, he doesn't just say, like, when he said it, it kind of hit me. Like, is this the Lord speaking? Right? It was like one of those things. Because normally I just go, nah, but this really kind of stopped me.

And so I thought about it and thought about it. And it was one of those things where the scope of it, I thought, the revolution. First of all, what is the revolution? What does that even mean? You know, it's like, who's given me this assignment? Is this the Lord giving me an assignment to write the American Revolution? I got to think about this. What is this going to be about?

And then I realized, okay, the American Revolution, we think of, starts Lexington and Concord, you know, the shot heard around the world, Bunker Hill and the war, and it ends, you know, basically in Yorktown, 1781. That's the American Revolution. But John Adams said there was a revolution before the Revolution. That is very interesting. That's when you start realizing what led up? to Lexington and Concord.

And I keep saying, in 1960, if you went around with a microphone, Main Street America, everybody knew this stuff. Everybody knew everything that's in that book. They knew it all. They knew the names, whatever. We have drifted away. And if you want to know why we're losing our liberties or you want to know why things are crazy,

while we're on this kind of crazy war with the insane left, or why the insane left even exists in America, it is because we have forgotten this. And so I said, I need to put it in a book. I need to make it readable. I need to get it out there. I need to get people excited about we need to know our history. And I've said to people, you know, I'm as usual half joking.

I said, this is like mandatory beach reading. This is like if you're an American, you got to like suck it up and read this. You need to know this. You will be blessed. I believe that. I agree. But it's not, I think it's too late for us. to say, well, it doesn't matter what.

We need to know this. We cannot get through what we're going through now unless we understand that, because that's our DNA. That's who we are. And to get through what we're going through now, we need to be armed with this history and this encouragement, you know, of the truth. Well, it reminded me in a way, you know, the book of Acts doesn't have a conclusion. And I've always said it's because we're the 21st century edition.

The story's still unfolding. And one of the things I took away from this is this story is still unfolding. As it's supposed to. Don't read this like we're reading a history lesson. Read this to inform our decisions. Not to go take up arms and shoot our adversaries. Well, it's kind of like this book to me is kind of like the instruction booklet for, you know, how do I live in a free nation? How do I keep freedom?

How do we govern ourselves? How does that work? Well, where's the instruction? You know, the ultimate instruction book is the Bible. Where did all the ideas of the revolution come from? The Bible, which is the main takeaway of my research on this thing, is that this was all Christians doing Christian stuff. This is not compatible with Christianity. This is Christianity poured into political life and into the form of a new nation.

That's what this is. And every American needs to know that. Every Christian certainly needs to know that because it's true. but most of us didn't really know that. I didn't really know that. People always think like, oh, Eric, you must know all this stuff. Oh, you're smart. You went to yell.

You know the guy. I know nothing. I know this much. I just know enough that I'm going to do the research. And then when I do the research and I see this stuff, I'm embarrassed that I didn't know it. And then I feel this zeal. I got to tell the world this is like we're late to the party. We got to get on this, you know, we got to get on the stick.

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You'll receive your free wealth protection guide. I have a degree in American history. I have a degree in history. But the cultural divide that you highlight, and particularly the opulence. Yeah. You know, I wasn't thinking of a gilded age before the gilded age.

Yeah. And you highlight that so well, and I think it's a relevant story for us because there was a consequence for standing up, and it had to do with comfort and convenience. It wasn't just principal. Well, let's put it this way.

the reason that and again, I'm not going to pretend like I knew this beforehand. This is as I'm doing the research, I knew very little. I just knew my assignment is I want to tell the whole story. So starting with the end of the French and Indian War, kind of starts off the conflict between Great Britain and the colonists, which leads to all the crazy stuff, the Stamp Act, and the Boston Massacre, and the Boston Tea Party and Lexington and Caga, all that stuff. And then the war, I just want to tell the story. But in the course of doing the research, I mean, I can't.

Kid you not, I was not expecting any of this. I saw what I had never seen and never really heard, ever, that this was a culture war that the British elites were like the Hollywood elites. If you think of the Hollywood elites of the New York Times running, governing a town of homeschoolers in Oklahoma, the cultural divide was infinite. They spoke the same language. they're in the same country, but they could not be more opposite. And everywhere I looked, I saw more and more evidence of this.

And I thought, how come I've not heard this before? The British were decadent. The British elites were decadent, cynical, corrupt, sneering at the Christian faith of the American colonists, not just not sharing the faith, sneering at it, mocking it. That's kind of where we are today. You have the elites, you have the elites, the cultural elites. elites, they don't speak the language that we do. And they think we're the bad guys. They think, oh, you're just a hypocrite. You're just nothing but a religious hypocrite because nobody really

believes that. We all know nobody really believes that. Well, yes, we do really believe that. And the colonists really believed it. The colonists, when I say the colonists, most of the folks in the 13 colonies were steeped in the Bible. The whole culture was Christian. Again, how come most people don't know that because that's true. I'm not, I'm not, this is not a Christian version of this history. This is the history. Well, in fact, I thought you were, um, didn't go out of your way, but it was a very fair mind. You told the story in a way that you're not always selling Christianity. No, because I, I want everybody to read this book. This is not a book for Christians. This is a book for anybody who's an American. And it's like, I want people to get, this is the true story. This is not my

version of the story. Believe me, I'm not, you know, I, I, I said, that as I did the research, it became clear and clear and clear to me that even I had, I just had not heard this. And I thought, how can we be laboring in the dark for decades, not understanding that this is the founding of the nation? This was profound Christians. You know, the lie, they were deists, the lie that, oh, just a few of them were Christian. That is such a lie.

But, again, it's only in doing the research that I realized the magnitude of this lie that's been sold to us. I mean, if you turned on, God forbid, you watch, you know, Ken Burns's PBS series, 12 hours on The Revolution, you would think that faith had nothing to do with it. And I'm here to tell you, faith had everything, not a big part. Everything came out of the scripture and Christian faith. That's not debatable once you do the research. And then you think, but people aren't talking about it. People act like you could get liberty in America without the Christian faith. None of the founders believe that. I mean, there's not one, including Jefferson and Franklin.

Why don't we all know that? Because that's true. You know, so I put it in the book, but the book is not about that. The book is just the stories. But when you read the stories, you just say, well, there it is. You know, I'm not, I don't need to read a book about that. I just need to read the facts and it kind of comes out. So, yeah.

And you highlighted beyond the history, which I want to come back some of the characters, but that even the birth of this nation coming forth on this continent prior to the Reformation was, from this vantage point, you can see the hand of God. Well, you see, that's the thing is we could see it, they could see it, but modern historians never talk about it. They act like, that's just crazy talk. Everybody involved at the time, including Thomas Payne, who was not some big Christian, they all saw the hand of God in the Reformation. They saw the hand of God in the discovery by Europeans of this new continent where dissidents, where people who suddenly discover the God of the Bible, they want to read the

Bible, they want the Bible translated their own language, they're being persecuted in their countries, in Europe. Now there's a place they can go. Where would they go before? It's like, let the nut jobs go there. Let the nut jobs go across the ocean, and they can form their little Christian communities and see how they do. Well, that's what happened. And everybody involved saw it as providential history, that this is God has done this. He's preparing us for a new era. And once you get to the 1760s and 1770s, the men of the revolution, they start putting it together like, you know what, we may have an opportunity now for these 13 colonies because we're being persecuted together by Great Britain that we could unify and create a nation based on this.

It's not just a colony in Massachusetts or a colony, an entire nation based on these ideas. They were kind of aware that this looks like God's plan. Is God opening a door? And they all believed that this is a reprisal of the Israelites leaving Pharaoh and bondage in Egypt, coming out into the wilderness to look directly to God, to govern themselves, to make a covenant with God, that's how they all saw it. And again, even if you don't see it that way, you need to know that's how they saw it, right? So if you have a secular historian today, he says, well, I don't believe that. You don't have to believe it, but you need to be aware

that that's how they read the tea leaves, so to speak, yeah. And you do a nice job. It's not like everybody involved were church mice. You know, the Sons of Liberty were on the edge of scoundrel. I was going to say you get some. And they used the mobs. Yes. I mean, and which you're very candid about. But they still had a sense of faith and destiny and all of that woven into their carnal. Well, I mean, again, like anything, there's going to be a spectrum. But the leaders, the leaders, they did get this stuff, right? That the leader, they were the ones that, I mean, especially John Adams, but they were aware of the fact that we need to play this right. This is not about winning. This is about our, is this God's idea? If this is, is this, is, is, is this,

is God's idea, we better behave correctly. So we can't have mob violence. We can't have, you know, so that you get some of that, but that does not continue. That's, you know, they, they're aware of the fact that we could, that's not the path forward. This is not the French Revolution. Right. This is something else. Yeah, it's very much stands in contrast to that. I also, you, you tell me, you did the research. You have favorites. Did you come out with some surprises or somebody you really enjoyed as you did the work? Yes. The number one is probably John Adams. John Adams should be a thousand times more famous than Thomas Jefferson. John Adams was an amazing man of God and very humble and very funny, very acerbic.

And he, like any of these great figures in history, they cared more about the cause than about their own glory. And because of that, in some cases, we don't know them so well. Because they said, well, it's not about me. It's about we want to win. So Samuel Adams, second cousin of John Adams, John Adams, John Hancock, Paul Revere, all the figures, you know, the Sons of Liberty in the 1760s, while this is developing, they were, you know, engaged in something. They thought, we can't stick our necks out too much here because the British are going to,

they're going to hang us, right? So we have to work behind the scenes. But if you work behind the scenes, you know, you're not going to get the glory. but if you care about the cause, you don't care about the getting the glory. But John Adams is kind of like that. He should be a Mount Rushmore. John Adams is a giant. And as I say, this is not to denigrate Jefferson,

but Jefferson cannot hold a candle to John Adams. I'm just amazed. But he made a tremendous sacrifice. I mean, the time he spent overseas, working on all the things that had to be done. Well, there's a ton of things you could say about John Adams. But I'll tell you, since I mentioned Jefferson, The reason I think Jefferson is so well known is because I think the people who don't like the God side of the story, they kind of pick Jefferson as like he's our guy.

He's the French Enlightenment rationalist guy. And we're going to go with him. We're going to push him. Now, that's not even that true of Jefferson. But the point is that they kind of created that Jefferson in their own image that he was this French Enlightenment guy. He was for the French Revolution, blah, blah. blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's that lie that you could get liberty and equality without God. That's a lie. And the contrast, the reason the book is called Revolution, not the American Revolution,

is because there has been only one revolution in world history that succeeded in doing what I wanted to do. That's the American Revolution. Why? Because they replaced an earthly king with God as king, and they knew that. The French Revolution said, we're going to kill the king and queen. Then we're going to start killing the priests and nuns. We don't want God to have anything to do with this. This is a secular utopia. This is like a proto-Marxist view, right? How does that end? How does it go for the French?

Can you get those things? They don't. They get a bloodbath. They get a nightmare bloodbath. And then they trade the king and queen for an emperor dictator named Napoleon. That is a very bad trade. It totally fails. So the lie that the secularists, many secular historians in our life,

lifetime that kind of act like, well, this all came out of the French Enlightenment and it came out of that. That's, they have really muddied the waters and confused it. I mean, some of the, some of it comes out of the Scottish Enlightenment, whatever, but the point is, where are the ideas, where are all these ideas come from? They only come from the Bible. That's the only place these ideas come. So if you push the God of the Bible out, you're, it's not going to end well. And so that's part of why I think they keep pushing Jefferson as opposed to Adams, because they, he's, he's like, But, you know, he's their guy. They act like they can have a cake and eat it too.

But it just doesn't work. No, he really doesn't. And the reminders about Washington were really helpful to me that on more than one occasion, he declined the opportunity to have been the ruler. He's so godly, he just embarrasses all of us, doesn't? Like, he just realized this is a man of such character. That's the truth. That you just think, was he real?

And it's like, yeah. God created someone who had stellar character. And I'll tell you, Alan, it's interesting. It made me realize, I've been thinking of this for years, but I haven't really said it. I was getting there with my book letter to the American church. We don't talk about character enough. We talk about theology. Oh, you're saved by grace.

It's all Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. It's like, okay, and then what? You're saved? You believe. Now it's supposed to be reflected in your character. We've kind of forgotten. We kind of act like, well, that doesn't matter. That's works righteousness.

No, it's not works righteousness. It is obedience to God. The men of the revolution, they got that. Washington got that. That virtue, character, you've got to work on this stuff. It's not easy, right? And I really believe that the only path forward for us in America today is we have to get back to that. Talking about character, talking about your character.

But it started young. They were young men when they stepped into this. Oh, yeah. And the pressure of it revealed their character. You know, I think we have this imagination. I'm going to get some character when I'm through sewing my wild oats and having my fun. And then I'm going to go find some character at Walmart or order some from Amazon or something. And it seems to me that we either start to build that in when we're young or it's really difficult to sort that out.

Well, we have to talk about it. It has to become part of the cultural conversation that are you a man of character? Because think about this. We focus so much. I'm speaking about, you know, we evangelicals. We always talk about faith and theology. We talk about that. What about character?

Because I know a lot of people, they can talk a good theological game. But their character is... If we get really honest, you get more clicks if you'll be a character. Having characters kind of boring. Well, look, I'm not talking... What I really mean, I guess, is the reason I think a lot of Christians are uncomfortable talking about character is their... worried that they're more worried about somebody getting the theology.

Like, do you understand Jesus died for your sins? Like, they act like that's the only thing that matters. And I think that if you're talking about character, right, even somebody that doesn't understand the gospel, because we're creating God's image, we can get the right and wrong in the character issue. If you tell a young man, you know, hey, this is how you behave. this is how you talk to your mother. This is what it did.

Something inside us responds to that, even if we don't get the theological background. And I think we need more of that. And we don't always have to dress it up in religious language. That can come with it. That can follow. But I think we need that because I think there are people, I mean, I've seen this in the last few years,

people that are just patriotic Americans that I know they don't get the theology, but they get right and wrong. They get sacrificing for what is right. They get standing up against lies. If you get that, you're leaning to the kingdom there. You're not that you can't have that in a vacuum. And I think that there are that the men of the revolution got that more.

They understood that being a man of character matters. And I think somehow we just haven't talked about that as much as we need to. We have to get back to talking about character. because to me, Washington is the ultimate example of character. And what I find funny, and again, when I was doing the research, I had no clue. But the two figures that were more qualified than Washington on paper, okay? So General Charles Lee and General Horatio Gates, right? They were the ones that they're thinking Congress is going to pick me to run the Continental Congress.

I'm not going to pick George Washington. I have more experience than George Washington, right? Well, Congress picks Washington. and then Washington proves himself to be the man for the job, mainly because of his character. In other words, the military stuff ends up being less important than the character because he had this ability to withstand suffering and whatever. And the two guys that I just mentioned,

you realize their character was not so good. They were gunning for his job. They were undermining him. They wanted the glory. They wanted the glory for themselves. They were caring about their reputation and about their careers. Washington was, he cared about the cause. He had a sense.

I don't know if it was a sense from God. But it seems like he had a sense of destiny that this is my assignment and I have to do this, even if I suffer, even, you know, whatever. So I just see that played out in those two characters. I mean, both of them get their comeuppance. I mean, you read the book. so like they totally, they humiliated because pursuing their own glory, you know, it's like a movie. You just think like, oh, that guy, it's not going to end well for that guy. And then, of course,

there's the tragic story of Benedict Arnold, which is one of the most. I didn't know the heroic parts you told. I learned. I learned something. Which is what makes it so tragic, right? It's kind of like Lucifer. You know, it's like, yeah, you're so wonderful. And then you think like, yeah, I'm wonderful. I'm really wonderful. I deserve more credit. I deserve, you know, you start pride goeth before a fall. But the classic case is Benedict Donald because he was outrageously talented and he knew it. And it went to his head. Warning. And he, oh no, I tell you, it's, to me, that's a character study like I just said, I got to tell that story because it's so, yeah, it's sobering. Let's put it that way.

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is God continues to work through history. Oh, yeah. You know, there's no, we tell it like it's an accident because we're right in the middle of the... Yeah. But if you get any space at all, you see God working through history. When you read the Bible, you see it,

but he's doing it in the 21st century. And so we want to be people of character. And you can have the law of God written in your heart, and you can't spell Nebuchadnezzar, and you can still do the purposes of God, which is really good to know. And this really, reminded me of that in such a powerful way, in such an emotive way, that it made me want to

find the courage we need to engage our culture. Well, I mean, I really do believe that's why the Lord called me to write the book. And I do believe the Lord called me to write the book. I thought that, you know, for me, if I get an idea, like, I think I'm writing a book, I got to think, are there books out there already? Do we need another book? And I realize there's tons of books on the Revolution, but there isn't one that tells everything in one book.

I said, there needs to be a book that tells the whole story and that does not skew it in this secular direction as though, well, yeah, it happened. It's like, no, the men of the revolution believed this was God's will. They called it the sacred cause. And they believed that if we don't behave worthy of God in how we fight, we will not win. In other words, they didn't think like it's about tactics and about having the bigger army. they knew they didn't have the bigger army. They depended on God.

They knew, and they, I write about it. I mean, I use their own words over and over. All of them said it. Washington said it. Samuel Adams said it. John Adams said. They all knew that if we repent and look to the Lord, that's the only way we could win. Why aren't we teaching that in schools?

That's American history. Again, even if you don't agree with it, that's American history. That's how they looked at this war. And so we need to do. know that that's how this nation began with a covenant relationship that they said we can only win we can only succeed if we look to the Lord and if the Lord blesses us that's that is our history we need to we simply need to know that and I think that it's the only way forward for us right now you know we need to be inspired by knowing that story and I think it's part of the way the

enemy works right if we can just get people to forget their history then we can tell them anything they'll buy any lie they'll buy social or Marxism or they'll buy that because they don't know the history. They don't know that that's not how you get self-government and liberty. They don't, you know, so we all used to know this, as I said, and I think we have generally forgotten it. And then the versions we're getting, like I mentioned Ken Burns' PBS series, that's not going to inspire anybody.

I mean, I was amazed. That was like if you make a remake of the Rocky movie and you come out and you're like, So who was the hero in that? That was kind of like, there were two sides to that story. I don't really know who to root for. That's what the Ken Burns PBS was. I was blown away. My wife and I kept looking at each other like, wow.

And then the heroic stories, like one of the chapters, one of my favorites, you asked, you know, Nathan Hale. Oh, my gosh. One of the greatest heroes in the history of this nation, every single person needs to know the story of this. extraordinary young man of God. What an amazing story. We need to have, uh, every, every, everybody needs to know his story. And in the, in the PBS thing, they gave him 10 seconds. They dealt hours talking about the Native American tribes who allied with the British and, and it all this bizarre peripheral stuff. And then one of these figures, one of the greatest figures, uh, of our history barely mentioned. You gave, you had some quotes from speeches

and things written by people who weren't ready to join the revolution. And they were pretty well-reasoned why they would not encourage the Sons of Liberty to do what they were doing. Yeah. And I'm reading that, and I think, it sounds like the current conversations today. Yeah. And there's a segment of the evangelical community then that won't engage. Yeah. Because they hear those voices saying, no, you know, we should just go hug the British.

Yeah. And, you know, I'd rather serve the tyrant I know than the tyrant. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. And I'm thinking, oh, I've heard that speech lately. Well, you know what I find funny is, like, in the end, you'll find out who was right and who is wrong. And as I was telling this story, you see a couple of times these people who have a prophetic voice, Patrick Henry.

Most people, when he said what he said, they're looking at him like, what is he nuts? Whoa. Like, slow down. Back it back it down. Like, you're going too fast. He was exactly correct. He knew, and you can't help but think like he's hearing from God. He's saying this stuff.

And the common wisdom says, oh, no, no, slow down. You're a hothead. Same thing with, well, there were a few figures like that. John Adams is like that, that a lot of people, they just weren't there yet. But those, you know, what we call those people, we call those people leaders. We call those people leaders. is they see what other people don't see, and then they rally people to begin to see what they see.

They're painting a picture, and they're saying, do you see this? Do you see this? And some people will see it, and some people won't. And that's that story. Samuel Adams is definitely one of those. What a hero. What a hero.

I mean, but yeah, there are a number of them that they see this stuff, and then you get the quote-unquote moderate voices like John Dickinson of Pennsylvania, you know. I mean, on July 2nd, 1776, or is July 1st, I think July 1st, he's arguing against independence, you know, strongly, arguing against independence at that late moment. I mean, the war had already been going on for, what, 14 months. They already been fighting and bleeding and dying. And he's still thinking, no, no, I think we can patch it up. Turns out he was wrong, right?

And then there are people like John Adams and others who they saw the situation. They called and thank God they got the votes. And thank God, people like John Dickinson had the wisdom and the humility to go along with the majority, even though they didn't see it. I think it's really important because, you know, when we read our Bibles, we'd like to think if I was in the middle of that, I'd have been with Moses every day. Right. I'd have been right there.

I'm with Moses. I got you back. Right. But the reality is the whole community grumbled their way through that. To the point that the overwhelming majority of them didn't get the, they didn't get the payoff for the whole Exodus drama. And I think we've got to recognize, because I think many of the people around me are like, well, you know, I'll get in when it's abundantly clear what the outcome's going to be

and nobody could understand anything except God is doing this. I'm like pretty think when the Red Sea parts, you could vote God's doing this. but 72 hours later they're all grumbling when they get tomorrow and I see so much of that in here I see that in here like I'm all in for God today

but on Tuesday and that we need one another I need you to write a book and remind me of stuff that I have read much of before and we have to have those voices because there's another voice in us that tells us just be chill

take a cruise you don't want to be one of those And listen, let's be clear. That's the voice of the devil. The devil can be moderate when it suits him, right? You know, it is, that's why we need to, you know, hear a sermon at least once a week or here we need to be reminded of what we should know, but we forget, we forget, we forget, we need to be reminded and encouraged. That to me is, you know, it's a spiritual truth. But then when it comes to the story of the American Revolution, as a nation, we all, we all, we. have to know this stuff and we're late this is like somebody who hasn't heard a sermon in a year it's like listen pretty soon you're going to slide off the edge here you you got to get back to understanding the basics that you have you've drifted america american culture we have drifted we all used to be pretty much on this page and so i feel like you know this is our time to uh to revisit it this is the 250th i call it the super centennial it's an exciting moment to to revisit

that what happened to him 50 years ago. And I say that it's kind of like, I say we're in the third existential crisis of our history. The first is the revolution, the second is civil war, and the third is now. And in the second existential crisis, in the civil war,

Henry Wadsworth Longfellow writes Paul Revere's ride. He writes this beautiful poem to remind people, listen to my children and, you know, to say, let's go back to the spirit of 76, actually, spirit of 75. And we need to, We need to go back to remember what happened then for now. And that was 1860.

Yep. And that's where I think we are now. But both of those crises were buttressed preceded by a real period of renewal, awakening. Yes. Spiritual renewal. Yes. Yes. And I think if we're going to have an outcome that extends liberty and freedom, we'll have to have a similar. There's no doubt.

There is no doubt. And we haven't talked about George Whitfield. but you see, I mean, that's just what you're referring to, is the Great Awakening before the Revolution. And I think we're in the middle of that right now. I think it's beginning. I think that there are people. I see cultural evidence constantly, you know,

such and such a pop star and such as whatever, you know, give the life to Jesus or being baptized. Ten years ago, that was not happening. I don't know if you remember, but I remember this is new. This is in the last five or so years. We're seeing something cooking. I've learned as a pastor there's a tremendous difference in a crowd and a community of faith. When people decide to step out of the crowd and invest their time and their resources,

they become a part of a community and it changes their lives. Well, I want to give you that invitation. I'm grateful you're a part of the crowd who watch the ministry. I want to ask you to consider becoming a monthly ministry partner. I believe if you'll make that regular commitment to what God is doing through this ministry, it'll bring momentum to your spiritual life and it will help us reach more people than we've ever reached with the gospel. before. Thank you. Ministry partners are at the heart of everything we do.

Through their faithful monthly support, we're able to share biblical truth, encourage believers, and provide resources that help people become more fully devoted followers of Jesus Christ. Through radio, television, the internet, books, events, and other resources. Become a ministry partner today at Alan Jackson.com or call 800-8805102. We always try to wrap this with, what can we do? So beyond just reading this micro-tone. Well, I say to people, like, I don't care if they read the book, but it wouldn't kill them to buy two or three copies.

I really do feel, like, I wish, sometimes you wish you hadn't written the book because I want to, I want to force this into the hands of every American who can read or listen to it on audiobook. If you hate to read, get the audio and listen to it. I read the audio book and I think like you don't get extra credit if you read it yourself. You know, if somebody's reading it to you, it's the same thing. But I honestly believe like we must know this. This is not extra credit. This is on the test. If you're an American, you're responsible for this information.

So if there's another way people can get it. But I think, I mean, what I hope I did, as you know, I do this thing called Socrates and the City, we did 13 interviews where I interview scholars of the revolution many of whose books I used in writing this book to kind of get more, you know, and if that can wet your appetite, or I think if people have read the book, watch those, watch those episodes.

This is something we need to marinate in this. We need to know more and more. This is just the beginning. I think I hope people who read this book will want more and will start getting excited about visiting historic sites and learning about it. You can't, you know, once you start getting into it,

you say, man, this is, this is my history. This is our history. And this is part of our story. You said it before. It's like it's the next chapter of acts. This is, we're supposed to be living the new chapter of keeping the republic and, and, you know, we, we have work to do. Like this is, this is, you can't live in a free country and do nothing. If you do nothing, you, you won't be free for long. And I really, so I think we've been drifting for about as long as we can drift. So I want to get people excited to, to, you know, to ask God, what can I do? Somebody sent me a video of Paul Harvey, this is a friend.

And he was telling the story of the signers of the Declaration and the outcomes of their lives following those events. And it really does not lie. You know, we were told they all did it because they were greedy and selfish. Oh, yeah. Not so much. That's another lie. There were some real sacrifices. Oh, my gosh.

These, so many of these men were men of, most of them were men of profound faith, incredible men of principal, honor. We owe them a debt. And that's why I say, like, just knowing their names, knowing their stories, we owe them that at least to know that. And to forget it is criminal and sinful. So I keep saying in our 250th year, this is the year. Like, let's go back and let's become a nation that celebrates this history. Well, your book, A Letter to the American Church was a very timely message.

And this feels like the logical next step, you know, to accept that letter. If you make that personal, you need this to give you the background to understand. Because now you're plotting points, and we can get a trajectory for what we could become. And so thank you. It's an enormous amount of work to do something like that. And thank you for investing the time and then getting on the road to go talk to people like me to tell this story over and over again. Yeah.

I trust the seeds you're planting. God will honor, and we will all get to reap the benefits. Well, listen, you know, it's a battle. The left is not, you know, promoting this book. Now, this is not some right-wing screed. This is just a book of our history. But if you want to know, you know, there's not piles of this in every bookstore. So Barnes & Noble is not doing this.

Most Barnes & Noble for some reason do not seem to have this book. And this book has been number two on the New York Times list twice. It has been on the New York Times list near the top six weeks so far. Why are they not? Every other bestseller, there's piles when you walk into the store. If you have a bookstore, you want to sell popular books. You would think. So that's another piece of evidence that we are in a war with people that don't.

that don't like this country, that don't understand what this country is all about. And so we need to be aware. So where are you sending people to find this? Well, I mean, mostly Amazon, but pretty much anywhere you can get a copy. But mostly Amazon is probably the easiest at this point. It's a great book to carry around. It impresses your friends. This is not like a comic book.

So, you know, this is a little bit of my light summer reading. So thank you, Eric. My privilege to be here. Thanks for having me. We have an assignment. We can't just read history. We have to live it. I've lived long enough.

Somebody thinks you are history. And so let's decide we're going to make an impact for the kingdom of God. Culture and Christianity, not optional. If your faith doesn't live outside the church, you don't have one. Enjoy the book. Thanks for joining me today. Before you go, please like the podcast and leave a comment so more people can hear about this topic too. If you haven't yet, be sure and subscribe to Alex.

Jackson Ministries YouTube channel and follow the Culture and Christianity podcast. You can do that on Spotify, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Together, let's learn how to lead with our faith. We can change our culture. I'll see you next time.