Culture & Christianity: The Allen Jackson Podcast - When Mainstream Media Went Woke [Featuring Sage Steele]

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

Welcome to culture and Christianity. The goal is to get our faith outside the walls of the church. We can't sit in sanctuaries and sing songs and listen to sermons and then live like pagans. So we've got to figure out what that looks like to lead with our faith in whatever arena God gives us influence. And I'm excited. We have a special guest today. Sage Steele, welcome to Murphysboro. Thank you.

I've never been to Murphy'sboro, Pastor Allen. Your life has been incomplete. Glad to be here. Thank you. Well, we are doing a conference on culture and Christianity and getting ready to do a segment on the media. And so that's what delivered you to this grand city. Yes. You have had quite a journey through that media world.

I got to know you on SportsCenter. So maybe we start there with – because, I mean, there were some unexpected – well, I mean, first, a lot of success. I won't say really early. I'm sure you worked really hard. but for those of us on the outside, you showed up. That's how it tends to happen. You just kind of appear, you know, but yeah, it was a childhood dream. Sports journalism?

Yes, to be a sportscaster. Yep. You an athlete? And in my own mind. I was a pretty good high school volleyball player, but that's as far as it goes. In the 80s, I was 11 or 12 years old watching the L.A. Olympics in 84. and knew at that moment that that's what I wanted to do. Wow.

Because I knew I wasn't going to be a good enough athlete to play anything past high school. So what's the second best thing is to talk about it and to get to know the why behind athletes, coaches, like, what makes them great. And it's funny, I look back now, I felt at a young age how sport brought people together. And you are at a football game, a basketball game, and you might not know who you're sitting next to, but you're high-fiving them when your team's doing it. well, aren't you? And so for three hours on a Sunday, everybody's friends, the world is at peace, at least in that stadium. And I remember wanting to be a part of that. So that's where the dream began. And then it was, yeah, an 11 or 12 year journey through local TV, regional TV, before getting to ESPN, and then 16 and a half years there. SportsCenter was my ultimate dream.

And I'll never forget that first day. And even though, you know, the ending of my time there was not great. I wouldn't change a thing. I loved it. So highlights. Athletes you talk to. Oh, gosh. Some of them occurred pre-ESPN, Michael Jordan, when I was a young reporter in the mid-90s when I was working in Indianapolis with like Reggie Miller's Pacers and Michael Jordan's Bulls, Eastern Conference Finals. Those were the days. They were. That was my favorite era of the NBA. So I remember just being in awe. And then Larry Bird came on as the Pacer's head coach during my time as a reporter there. I mean, Larry Legend, and he's the head coach, and I am around him every single day.

I mean, but I was this cub reporter and completely in over my head. I was terrible. Is his country in person as he seems to be? More. More. But hey, now that I'm in Tennessee more, you guys sound pretty similar. I don't know. I'm sure we are.

French like Indiana. And then, you know, I think. There was a great stretch run for me from 2013 through 19 covering just the NBA for a good chunk of that window. And that was that NBA finals run with the Golden State Warriors and Stefan Curry and then LeBron James with the Cavaliers. And to be focused just on the NBA, which was never anything I loved before. But to get to do that up close and personal, to appreciate the greatness of those athletes. Because it's one thing on TV, but when you stand next to them, or you're at court side and you feel it and you, you know, you get sweat dripped on you or whatever

else. I just loved, again, the personal side. Football, it's tougher because you're sitting much further away and they have masks. With the NBA, you can see and feel everything. So Stefan Curry and LeBron and everybody, everybody was great to work with for the most part. The book will be really good if I ever finish it, I swear. But there's so many stories of great moments behind the scenes, locker room. with coaches and players and GMs and then my coworkers.

So a lot of great interviews. But I need to have a better answer for that question because I think there were so many that sometimes I forget. That sounds terrible, doesn't it? Olympians, UFC fighters. It's some of the stories that they told me that had nothing to do with the sport, who there is people as a father.

We know them in this little window on a stage or a court or a field. And they have lives like the rest of us. Right. And so you got to see a bit of that? I did. It was amazing to fulfill the dream that I had as an 11-year-old little girl. In the 80s when there were no women. There are no women who look like me, that's for sure.

So the fact that I got to do it, awesome. It sounds like God to me. Very much so. Well, I want to come back to ESPN, but I've met you around some turning point USA events. And I think we've got to talk about that. That's the obvious part of today. our friend Charlie, got promoted. But that's where I saw you at some of those events.

And how did you get to know Charlie? He reached out to me on Twitter several years back. I can believe that. Yep. And just had some nice words to say. And I thought, Charlie Kirk knows who I am. I was still at ESPN and being muzzled at the time. And I think he probably, I mean, he's quite intuitive, right?

I think he probably felt it. And then I'd pull back because I'd get. in trouble. But our country, you just kept, you felt it boiling. And he just said some kind, encouraging things. Obviously, in the last year leading up to the election, and I had been gone from ESPN for about a year at the time. And listen, who knew? The last thing I ever imagined was me on a campaign trail for anybody, much less Donald Trump. And here I was. It was amazing. And it was so inspiring to then be able to sit next to Charlie and pick his brain a little bit and derive some of the courage that he displayed. I just wanted a little tiny piece of it. And then when he asked

me, summer of 20, was it 23, I guess the turning point USA, the faith event and West Palm. Yeah. That's, I mean, I was so scared because I knew the importance of what he was doing. Right. And I had never talked openly about my faith. Scary. You know, you don't have to look far to see that our economy is in real turmoil. Our nation is $37 trillion in debt. Inflation rates made it hard to buy and sell a house, even a car.

We're all feeling it. When you go to the grocery store and you spend an extra dollar or two in every item, that gets personal in a hurry. Well, the most important thing we can do during uncertain times is to invest ourselves in knowing God better. Read his word, pray. That's the only place we're really going to find stability we need for the disruption that I'm pretty certain is ahead of us.

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with a qualified purchase. Go ahead and text them today. I've watched that part of your story kind of unfold a bit. You're doing well. Yeah. You really are. Thank you. It's every time I do it.

I'm always so grateful for the opportunity, and I feel like I receive someone to give. from that because of what I hear from others who are like, okay, if she can do it, I can. Someone who didn't grow up that way. Right. So there's so many blessings from just being out there and being vulnerable. And that's what, Charlie, that's what Erica taught me. I only met Erica in person one time when we stayed in touch.

But that was at Amfest last year and what we spoke about. And then after that really changed me. And for me to mean, I'm 20 plus years older. than Charlie was when he died is, you know. And so at first I'm like, these are kids. They could be my kids. And they're teaching me. So it's been a real, it's been an honor to be able to say that I got to do a couple of things with him.

Absolutely. And there's, unfortunately, not unusual, but there's some negative stuff out there about Charlie. A lot of hateful labels. He was one of the kindest people I have known. But he didn't, I mean, he had a strong opinion, but he was genuinely kind to people. and would listen to them and try to understand them. And I learned from him. And, you know, I'd watch those videos,

and I think, he did that better than I could do that. And I mean, I would take notes and think, and I've got to listen in a different way. I was in awe of the way he did it. And now that his clips are being watched even more than probably ever imagined because of this tragedy, I love if you just even turn down the volume

and just watch his body language. And he takes the microphone and he puts it down. That's it. He puts that mic down. Yes. Letting you speak. Absolutely. No matter what you're saying or what your opinion is or how hateful you're going to be,

he puts it down. And he sits back and he leans back. And I always liked watching him when I was on stage with him too. Last time I saw him was in May in Phoenix. It was Freedom Night in America and he had me on. And I remember he asks a question. And then he just sits back and listens. And he's also looking around and doing 50 other things in his brain.

It was incredible. But I really loved that part where he listened and he allowed people to have a conversation. And that is what I hope people begin to appreciate more and emulate. That's what we need. I never felt like he was apologetic for the truth that he believed. Right. You know, somebody would say something diametrically opposed. And sometimes we tend to be squishy or kind of apologetic.

And Charlie wouldn't do that. He'd go, no, I don't think so. Or I don't agree with you. But it wasn't a, it wasn't combative. Not at all. I mean, there were times where, you know, if people got ugly with him, he would stand up and maybe be louder. He never cut them in an ugly way, you know.

He never was evil in the way that many people were to him through the years. Also, I don't think I fully, until more recently, the last year or so, fully appreciated his brilliance. and that's the problem for people who tried to debate him. He certainly has strong opinions, but he's got facts. He's going to lay them all out for you, things that you probably have never even heard. He was a genius. By the way, if you're talking about the Bible, the Constitution, or NBA basketball,

like he knows all of it. So as a sportscaster, we thought I knew a lot, and I'm like, go ahead. You can take this one. Your first. Yeah, really amazing. It would be fun. You know, the students on the camera. they'd come up and say, you don't even have an education.

And I was like, oh, that's the wrong taunt. I would not talk trash about facts to Charlie. Yeah, it's really, it's really incredible. And maybe you know more about his parents, his sister. I just, I'm so more fascinated now. Like, where does that passion come from? And again, the brilliance. Yeah, I think God gave him a gift.

Yeah. But Charlie's graduated. He got a promotion. I love that you say it that way. Yeah. Well, I'm not sad for Charlie. I mean, he didn't, nothing was stolen from Charlie. I think he ran through the tape.

The part that I'm sad for is I relied on Charlie. You know, he was the strength. I mean, we weren't, we didn't vacation together, but I understood the space that Charlie occupied. And now it feels like we've gotten a baton. We can't be Charlie, but we have to be a voice for truth in the arenas where we are. But the Lord had already started you on that path.

You said it a minute ago. Something about your bosses would pull you back. What's that mean? I thought we have free speech and that the networks are champions of inclusivity and openness. Diversity. Yes. Captains, inclusion.

Not so much. Not so much. You know, I think a lot has changed since I left that world two years ago. And it's amazing what can happen when someone else is in the White House, someone who actually believes in that. Leadership really matters. Yeah, it actually does. That's why your vote matters. You know, I don't disagree with, in my case, ESPN, Disney at the time saying, I mean, let's actually go back 10 years ago.

and when Donald Trump decided to run, came down that golden escalator in 2015, and then 2016. I mean, we were told very clearly and explicitly, no politics, not on our airwaves, not on social media. And most of us listened until Donald Trump won in 2016. And when our leadership, when our vice presidents were tweeting terrible things about him, it was so confusing. I'm a rule follower.

I really, believe it or not, tried to never stir pot and just mixture everybody likes me. I know. People are like, really? Trust me. Ask my mom. I was such a good kid. I don't know what happened. And that's when everything kind of got crazy. And the problem is a lot of our leadership didn't like Donald Trump. And so therefore, they said it was okay for certain people to say those things because they agreed, which is not leadership. It's bad business is what that is. And so that's where it began. And then it vamped up in 2020 with COVID, et cetera. And I just never understood the double standard.

And that's when I started to inadvertently at first to speak up. It was not intentional again. I had a job, a job that I loved, three kids to support by myself. Like, I needed that job, too. So I'm going to stay in line. And when I ended up standing up and actually suing Disney and ESPN, it was only because of that, because they punished me, suspended me, took assignments away, et cetera,

for saying what I said about being forced to take a COVID shot. On a separate podcast away from ESPN, while my peers were allowed to talk about how devastated they were that Roe v. Wade was overturned, or that don't say gay Bill in Florida on ESPN airwaves. And so the double standard is where, after you punish me, but then allow that because as a leader you agree with

those views, that's when it wasn't okay. So it makes me sad that they allowed it to get to that point. But as a leader, you have to be, as a parent, you have to be consistent. And then once the toothpaste is out of the tube in many ways with those people on the left and everything turned woke, everything turned political, again, bad business decision. And I firmly believe I would tell my boss is this. People are not coming to watch ESPN to hear our opinions on politics. They are coming for highlights and interviews and to yell about their team losing or whatever it is.

But we are an escape and we're ruining that. And I think that's what happened. I think it's more complicated than that because people would say the same thing about church. They'll say they don't come to church to hear politics. They come to hear a Bible story. You know, they want to talk about the Pharisees and the Sadducees in first century culture. They come for an escape from the combativeness of our culture. But I think whether it's the media or the church, we are presenting something.

We are presenting a moral viewpoint. We are presenting a worldview. We are advocating for something. And I think we've used that language to hide from things we didn't want to address. And I agree. I think sports center is about sports. But I've watched my share of it. And you get a sense of worldview as you watch it.

And I respect you for standing up and saying this perspective needs to be a part of the dialogue. Or at least allow both. Right. That's all it was. I can stand the diversity of opinions. Let me sort it out. Absolutely. But when you punish one side, either side, that's not actually what you're preaching.

And so that was the rub. And listen, I think their numbers have been affected. Ratings, advertising has been affected greatly by it. And it's unfortunate. So listen, yes, there are lines that have been crossed and I'm okay with it. Back several years ago, it was, you know, Laura Ingram famously, from Miss Lisa shut up and dribble, and that, we're past that. That ship has sailed.

And I guess not, but, and you have to allow all the athletes to do it then. And so you're going to get on Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen or whoever it might be for being upset that Charlie Kirk was murdered the way he was. And these athletes are getting crushed for just recognizing how horrible that was. What? So I think it's an all-or-nothing thing. You cannot. I mean, you can, but I think there are repercussions. And that's what we're seeing a lot now,

that there's repercussions when you only allow the voices that you agree with. Well, I think we have to go back into those corporate boardrooms. From my vantage point, I'm the older than you. And for several decades, we were told if someone said they were offended by our faith, we should be quiet and retreat. If one solitary person raised their hand and said, I'm offended, then we should withdraw completely. And we complied.

We did. I mean, we did. We took our stories and we stepped out. And now we find ourselves when those corporate boardrooms are dominated by world views. And if I raise my hand and say, I'm offended, they tell me to shut up. Exactly. So now I'm embarrassed. I'm like, I surrendered the field.

And I'm going to have to invest the effort, the energy, the focus, make the sacrifices to retake some of that territory. Because my faith belongs in the public square as much as their faith does. and so it's why I appreciate your courage. You had gained everything and had much to gain by overlooking, and you chose not to do that. So thank you. Thank you. I did for a long time, and I've tried not to regret it because that's where I was at that time.

And it took what it took to find it. That's formation. It's a journey, yeah. You know, those muscles, we have physical muscle. muscles we develop, we have spiritual muscles and character muscles, and all of those have to be developed as well. And you had the, I don't think you'd be a world-class athlete without having a certain amount of genetic advantage. Then you have to put in the work. And God gave you the character, and you put in the work to let that character be expressed, which makes me think

the best is still ahead of you. He didn't bring you through that season to diminish your voice. It may take a different... I'm curious, so post-E-SPN, you've been on a journey. I have. It's crazy. It is. Tell us a little bit. It's been so fun and scary and completely unpredictable and awesome and devastating it. Yes, all of it. And I get so emotional when I think about it and think about how I felt that day that I settled out of course.

with Disney and now was in a law firm in Los Angeles with a mediator and my attorneys I'd never hired an attorney for anything in my life probably should have for past things and hadn't and the big Disney powerful people are in the room next to me and when we agreed to it and I put my head

on the table I just sobbed because it took so long to get there and a dream that came to an end in a way that I thought was just so unnecessary And from that moment on, I remember getting on that plane the next day and pushing send on my tweet, my public statement that we had agreed to, and realizing that when I landed, I didn't know what that was going to look like. Wow.

And for a long time, and I started to speak up, and Fox News and other networks would have me on, and I remember they would ask me a question, and I'd get scared, and I remember having this constant vision that Disney CEO, Bob Agger, was going to come up behind my chair and grab me by the throat and say, no, you're suspended again. Like I had this almost PTSD and I joke about it now, but I realized how much I had just been trained to be silent and to live in fear. And it was beautiful to take some time.

I didn't really take time off because it's like, well, what's next? What do you? I have to make a living. I have to feed my kids. I have to do something. But to take some time and to reflect and to realize that by speaking up, it was so much bigger than me. And the number of people,

the thousands of DMs and notes and emails that I would get from people, I feel terrible. I never was able to respond to all of them. But that's when I began to realize why I was on this earth. Not just for my three kids. That's number one, I believe, you know, as a mother to raise them.

But right there, as important was to be a voice for so many people who've been afraid for so long just like I was. Because the fear is real and it's legitimate. Yeah. Especially a couple years ago, I mean, and my friend Roseanne and my friend Gina Carano and Julian Michaels and all these people,

especially Disney, former Disney employees who were shut down and silenced and canceled and celebrated the celebration that was out there when we got canceled. So the fear is real. And... Which is weird to me. They celebrate.

Oh, celebrate. Celebrate. And I mean, and as that pleaser, that I told you about, who I just wanted to do the right thing and be liked, that was a process, has been a process to let go of that and realize that it's okay. It's probably the biggest transformation I've had, aside from my faith and being outward with that, is to be okay, being disliked. But I think of it in my life differently. The fear of God to me, the respect, the reverence for God, means, because I have a little bit of that in me,

I want to please him. Yes. Well, that's where it is now. And if it makes everybody else uncomfortable and he's pleased, I'm like, we're all. Yeah. I hate that it's taken so long for me to get there, but that's part of his journey, and it's fine.

But that's why it's okay now, because I know he's okay with me. And to continue to say it, I have never, it's funny in the sports world. I just had this dream to tell stories. I didn't know it would turn into what it did. I didn't know, I mean, there was no internet when I started that. So you don't realize you're going to be famous or whatever. There was, apparently, and I miss it, darn it. But I'm blown away and humbled at what people say to me, strangers when they come up, especially with, you know, keeping women's sports safe for women with that topic. And the number of men and fathers who come up to me with tears and their eyes at airports because they wanted to speak up for their daughters, but they would lose their $50,000 a year job and that's all they had. It's real. And so that's the beautiful. And so that's the beautiful. of this, of my cancellation and all the chaos and the fear pushing through it, is that I can be

one of many voices. I've gotten to be friends with Riley Gaines and so many strong young women. I mean, she's 25 years old. I'm twice her age, and she's teaching me things. When we realize that it is not about us and that our big mouth in my case, I guess, can help others or at least be their voice because they can't today, maybe tomorrow. What a gift. And that is, I'd say. say probably, again, another huge blessing of the last two years where I had no clue and no idea. And now I can look back at so many moments through the years before ESPN, where I had this fear, but God was right next to me the entire time.

And it's so, I'm just grateful that I see it now, that even though, again, I wish it had happened 25 years ago. I see it now. and now I have a voice to be able to share it and hope others don't wait as long as I did. Almost everybody I know wants to feel better, have more energy. I mean, myself included, I went to a concert a few months ago. It's been almost a year ago now, and I sat down next to a friend Jordan Rubin was there. I made an offhand comment. I need to feel better, get a little healthier.

He showed up in my office a couple days later with a plan for me. Part of it was a diet. My diet was centered on Oreos. He had some different ideas. But a part of what he brought to me was this, multi-college and protein. It's been a part of my routine for months now, and it's made a difference. More energy, I feel better, my joints feel better. It's real food from real food sources. Helps us feel better. I recommend it to you. It's made a difference for me. I think it'll help you.

Just go to ancientnutrition.com. You can put in code Allen 30. That's A-L-L-E-N-30. You'll get a 30% discount, and it'll also bless our ministry. Again, that's ancientnutrition.com, Allen, A-L-L-E-N-30. You get a 30% discount on multi-college and protein. You'll feel better and you'll bless our ministry. Thanks. Well, my most consistent complaint with God is about his timing. But I have to say from this vantage point in my life, his timing has always been perfect.

Always. And I think he puts us in those places when he knows we're ready to do it. He truly is a loving parent. And I think, well, if you had given me that opportunity, before, but I would have fumbled it. Yeah. And so I think the timing in your life was perfect. It's overwhelming sometimes.

It is. But it's exciting. This notion that cooperating with God or yielding to God will diminish you, will take something away, that it's sacrificial. What a bunch of garbage. Everything I have relinquished to the Lord, I've gotten back better. Not maybe in the moment. I've done it in the moment.

It's frightening. Makes me uncomfortable. You kind of set apart. from your peer group, and you think, dear God, I'm going to look like the village idiot. But then God does what God does. And you think, why did I ever, why did I, but I do, I still do that. I still face that. You still do it, then I'm not going to meet myself up as much.

You know, I was real quick, I think you'll love this. When I was in college, I went through a really, really tough time and didn't know which way my life was going to go. And my mom and dad got on a plane. They lived in Kansas. I went to school at Indiana University. and they got in a plane and came to me. When they left, they left a framed picture.

And it said, if you want to give God a good laugh, tell them your plans. And I still have it. That's good. And that was in 1992. I still have it. Was Bobby Knight still there? Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

That's why I went to Indiana's because of Bob Knight. Don't tell my parents that. Not because of the great journalism education I'd get because of Bob Knight in basketball. You there when he threw the chair? No, that was 80. I look at you, you know the date. Six or 87. National championship was 87.

I started in 90. It took me five years, too. So I was trying to get as much Bobby Knight as possible. And I was there for their national championship run when they lost to Duke. And don't get me, don't get me upset. But that was so true. Like, I had this whole grand plan for my life. And I was going to, you know, do this, this and this and this to get to ESPN and eventually host sports center and have some kids along the way.

Like, I had it planned out at age 18, 19, until that moment. And so I'm so glad. And it's all beat up now in this ugly frame and it's peeling. And I look at it all the time. And he has his plans for us. He did. We just need to wait. He gave you the grace to chase yours.

True. You know, with a great deal of success. And then he showed you something even better, which that is so cool to me. Who knew it could get better? That's the thing. We put a cap on in ourselves. Yep. Like, why?

Just the sky truly is the limit when you give up that control. Because we give in to the fear. Yeah. No more. No more. So I heard, somebody told me you did an interview with President Biden. I did. And they gave you a script?

Yes. They gave you a script. See, by then they should know better. Very specific script. Stick to it. And then we had a very tight window where in order to get all these questions in, there's no time to follow up. Because then I'd get in trouble for not doing it.

It was not ideal. Started late, had technical issues. And it was so interesting in hindsight again because it was, you know, not in person. It was via satellite or whatever. And I was able to talk to him before it began, but only because they had the camera covered with a black curtain. I couldn't see him. You weren't allowed to see him. And maybe they do that with all presidents.

I don't know. Certainly not this one, I don't think. But, yeah, I'm pretty sure. And the conversation beforehand was strange. And that was right after he won. This is probably March, April of 2021. I used that in air quotes, won the election. Sorry, I'll be honest.

And I remember being done with the interview and thinking, something's not right. It made me sad because I could see it. And I am no doctor and I wasn't even in person to be able to tell that something wasn't right. I have a grandmother who died from Alzheimer's and I saw that. What I thought was definitely some early signs of dementia. It broke my heart from a human perspective. I don't care if I disagree with him. I can still feel badly for that. So as it went on

years later, as we saw what happened, it was like, guys, stop. We hid this and we did not serve that man well. But I will never forget the questions. The fact that I couldn't respond. He was talking about all the racist voter laws in Georgia because at the time the MLB All-Star game was supposed to go to Atlanta. And I asked, I had to ask

if he agreed with it being removed potentially. Sure enough it was because of those racist voter laws that just simply wanted you to show an identification card. It was interesting. And I will say the context that not many people know is that I was supposed to have gone to the White House

to interview Donald Trump months prior. and they canceled it at the last second and knew I was livid, knew that it was wrong. And so when this Biden interview came up many months later, it's the only reason why they gave it to me. They knew they messed up here and to keep me quiet. There's a lot more to tell.

I'm not going to be quiet. And again, it's not to blow them up. There are still some really good people that work there, just like any company that you don't agree with, maybe the way they're running it. There are always good people within. It is, though, to try to encourage them and many other employers everywhere. Like, this is not the way to do it.

This is not the way to treat your employees. It's not the way to run a company. You make those choices, but we have seen what has happened with the budlights of the world when you do that. And now there seems to be more and more accountability. So it was interesting to be the one asked. Everybody, all my coworkers, were like, why is she the one interviewing Biden? And they didn't know the real why behind it. But, hey, it was still a sitting president.

and I'm glad I got to do it. It's a story, that's for sure. Well, it's a part of your story. I think you're right. It feels like there is a very light breeze of truth kind of rippling through. I pray it grows. I think it is. One of the outcomes to me of COVID was it forced us to acknowledge some things,

the degree to which we participated with the deception. I mean, it was unsettling for me. Before COVID, I trusted the CDC. Yes. I trusted the FBI. I trusted that science would cross state lines. You know, and a few weeks into that, I thought, this is bizarre. Yeah.

And it's continued right up until today. And that's the spirit of God moving. Yes. So I am very grateful for your courage and you're willing to share your story. Thank you so much. I mean that from the bottom of my heart because I now, realize the importance of standing true to what it is you believe in. No matter what it is, it's the way you do it. We don't have to do it with ugliness. We can be kind. But in particular

with our faith today, this has been a terrible stretch with Charlie Kirk. And now what? Like you said, he's been promoted. I personally feel there's so much more good than bad. And And the conversations I've had with my kids who are college age and beyond, it's changing everyone. And I believe there's going to be even more good in a spiritual level that's going to come from what happened. I feel it already. I agree with you. The devil always overplays his hand. That doesn't mean it's easy because you have to live through the grief of the evil when it breaks into the open.

But historically, I think we could make that case. And I know that will be true with Charlie because I trust the Lord. and Charlie, it wasn't about Charlie, it wasn't a self-serving agenda. And I believe from that sacrifice, we will get to see God's outcome. So thank you for spending a few minutes with us. We come back and do this again. I'm your neighbor now. You are.

We're going to teach you to say y'all. Oh, boy. Don't tell my mom. I'll do it just for you. Thank you. Thank you. God bless you as well. Thanks.

Hey, thanks for joining me today. Before you go, please like the podcast and leave a comment so more people can hear about this topic too. If you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to Alan Jackson Ministries YouTube channel and follow the Culture and Christianity podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Together, let's learn how to lead with our faith and change our culture. I'll see you next time.