Culture & Christianity: The Allen Jackson Podcast - Widow of American Sniper Shares Her Story [Featuring Taya Kyle]

Episode Date: August 29, 2025

After multiple deployments as a Navy SEAL, Chris Kyle (also known as the American Sniper), returned to the United States. He survived some of the most dangerous combat zones but was tragically murdered while trying to help a fellow veteran. Left to raise their two children alone, his wife faced unimaginable grief and uncertainty—yet the Lord was present. In this episode, Chris Kyle's widow, Taya Kyle, joins Pastor Allen to share a powerful testament to hope, resilience, and the faithfulness of God, even in the darkest valley. If you've ever struggled with grief, doubt, or finding purpose after tragedy—or know someone who has—this conversation is for you.More Information:American Sniper: https://americansniper.com/ TACK-F: https://www.tackf.org/Prayer for Bears: https://tayakyle.com/pages/p4b —It’s up to us to bring God’s truth back into our culture. It may feel like an impossible assignment, but there’s much we can do. Join Pastor Allen Jackson as he discusses today’s issues from a biblical perspective. Find thought-provoking insight from Pastor Allen and his guests, equipping you to lead with your faith in your home, your school, your community, and wherever God takes you. Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3JsyO6ysUVGOIV70xAjtcm?si=6805fe488cf64a6d Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/culture-christianity-the-allen-jackson-podcast/id1729435597

Welcome to Culture and Christianity. I'm excited about this particular podcast. My guest is Taya Kyle. She's the widow of Chris Kyle. You may know Chris from the movie American sniper, Navy SEAL, multiple deployments overseas. One of the most celebrated American snipers, I suppose, in history. The Navy SEALs called him the legend.

The Iraqis called him the devil of Ramadi. but I think the real story started when he was back home after deployment. His life seemed to be flourishing and he was murdered in a brutal, cruel way. But his wife and family have flourished in spite of that. I know I have learned a great deal about courage and overcoming and the power of and I believe you will as well.

So welcome to culture and Christianity. And I think you will very much enjoy the story and the encouraging words of Taya Kyle. Well, Taya, welcome to our podcast. Thank you, Ray, Kyle. For those who don't know you, you're their surviving wife of Chris Kyle, the American sniper.

Yes, yes. So kind of an American legend, movie, the whole thing. Yeah. You've had to survive a lot of tragedy after that high-profile story. Maybe we start, you just tell us a bit of your story. Somebody may have missed the movie. There may be two people.

Yeah, no, that's two people. Yeah, you know, what a fascinating world. I met Chris, quickly fell in love, got married. He was in war consistently, which they even have rules against, but he was a very effective sniper among other things. And so a lot of times people would say they know him as the American sniper. And so they would think, oh, you know, he's on a rooftop. It's like, that was one of his jobs. You know, he also was hand-to-hand in the streets, bullets flying by, serving with the Marines, going out by himself, not just with the seal team or with, you know, attached to other units. And so it was a very combat intensive time. And he was there from the time the war kicked off. They were there right before it technically kicked off and throughout our marriage. And the needs of the Navy was the term that they would use, needs of the Navy, meaning, yeah, we know you're only supposed to do two combat deployments and then have some time off, but we need to, you're good at what you do. And it was very taxing and wearing and I did not understand what it would do to us. And I mean, really, when I was engaged to

Chris, so we had a, we dated for six months, got engaged. I proposed to him. And not officially, but we made a joke because it was like, I thought he already said he wanted to marry me. I really did. So I was like, well, let's just do it. And apparently I missed something there. So he was like, no. Anyway, um, he, let me say this. Okay. So Alan, he said to me, I can't imagine ever wanting to spend a day in my life without you. And I thought that meant he wanted to marry me, but usually guys were like, no, he actually didn't say that, though. He just, he's just saying how he felt. Men. Yeah. What are you going to do? So anyway, but we got married six months later. I asked my dad, do you have any reservations about him? Because it's such a cowboy, humble, kind, animals loved him,

kids loved him. He was funny, you know, just really this package I couldn't believe existed in one person, not at all arrogant, super humble. And you know, you could kill somebody and take care of business. And I was like, this is, this is cool. And my dad said, my only concern is that war changes people. And I thought, well, not this guy.

Because he does stuff, he's not wearing the trendy clothes. You know, he's wearing his cowboy stuff. Like, he's not overtly cowboy. I'm just saying, like, he just didn't follow trends. Nothing was going to change him. That's what I thought. And Chris and I talked about that before he was killed. He was murdered in 2013.

And I said, you know, my dad said that. And he goes, well, he seems to know what he's talking about. Who would have thought, right? And so even Chris acknowledged, like, it does, it's going to change you. And the military has a number they were comfortable putting out for the number of kills. And it's nowhere near the real, you know, deal. And when I think about it now, I think, how did he come out of that? as loving and kind as he did because it takes a tremendous toll.

So to kind of wrap up, you ask, like for people who don't know the story, American sniper showed the toll that war takes. It was important to Chris, actually, to add the family element. And I wasn't sure that was a good idea. I'm like, just tell your story. It's fascinating, you know? And he said, no, I think we need to tell the family story because he didn't want it to be just about him. And he wanted it to represent all who served.

And I think they accomplished that with American Sniper. And so right after the book, the book came out in 2012, Chris was doing speaking tours. And just so your listeners, you don't know him, I was so proud of him and also just intrigued at this person who, he did a book signing the first night. There were three hours long line that had a Barnes & Noble. And so the staff at Barnes & Noble and I were both like,

hey, you know, get a chair. And he said, no, if he said, no, if these people are going to stand for me, I'll stand for them. And I was like, you know, just what an aware and humble servant heart he had. And so that was the way that he did things. People would talk about how he, if Chris was talking to you, nobody else was going to interrupt. I was raised in the north, so I thought interrupting was just part of the way people converse. You know, so I mean, even if I would go up and I say, hey, honey, you know, maybe somebody needs you over here or whatever.

He didn't flinch, didn't bat an eye, you just stayed locked into whoever he was. talking to as a sign of respect for them, not disrespect to me. And so then people started talking about doing a movie. Warner Brothers approached him and he signed on. Bradley Cooper was assigned to play Chris. They had a conversation and they turned in the rough draft for the script to American sniper the day before Chris was then murdered. The timing of it, you know, And Chris hadn't even seen the script. So that threw me into a different place. He was working on a book called American Gun,

where he was saying, look, the technology. And I know, you know, the Barrett's and the technology of the guns changed the way that we fight wars and the way that history, you know, from the Civil War battles and its muskets and, you know, to these high-tech weapons. So he did the history of the United States, through the different weapons and how they were formed it.

So he was working on that when he was killed and he had a company that he was trying to help people be safer, protect schools from school shootings and find out how to fortify their perimeters. And so he was invested in all these things in the movie was one of those things. And then he was killed and I just immediately went into not only, you know, obviously deep pain and grief, but also this desperate feeling of There's so much of Chris, they can't, almost a defiance. You can take his body, but you cannot take his work. You cannot take his spirit.

Like we will carry the torch. We will do what we can do. And I don't think anyone can effectively do that. Because God creates us so uniquely for our, you know, but he gave us a platform. So the kids and I have, Colton and McKenna and I have worked through grief and I tried to finish his projects and did my own speaking engagements and tried to find the ways that I was.

would plug into the world. And then here we are. My son, Colton,'s taking over the American sniper brand. He's 21 now in like a week or two. We've, by the grace of God, found our way. I'd say you've done more than found your way. But I want to come, you had two small children when Chris was killed. He'd survived multiple deployments. I mean, there's a, there's more than a cruel twist in that. Yeah. And he's home with all these positive things opening up. Yeah. And he's murdered cruelly. Yeah. How does that impact your faith? You know, it's a great question. And when I look back at the way that God writes a story and, you know, I think of it like a symphony and we're all the orchestra in this and he's like pulling the strings, you know, pull him down, do this, do that. And I see how lovingly he knew what was going to happen. He couldn't stop it. So the thing is, we have. free will and God keeps, I'm not lecturing to you, but you know, this is how I process it. Lecture made. It's okay. No, no, no. But I'm just saying the way I process it is like, okay, we have

free will and God says, you can use your free will for good or bad. That's what free will is. So some people are going to choose it and they're going to get lost in temptation to do things that are not godly and not good. Disappointment makes you feel entitled. Yes. Yes. And that's such a good word. I don't even know if you're aware necessarily, the person who murdered Chris, from what we understood at the murder trial, did not have PTSD, although that was the narrative that was pumped out for years, but also didn't see combat and hadn't had trauma, according to psychiatrists on the prosecution and defense in his life, but he felt entitled. He felt somebody owed him because he served, somebody should give him a job. He started saying, I have PTSD, got out of speeding tickets,

and, you know, other things. And just the way the system was, was set up and his mother, from what I could tell, of course, I'm not an expert and I can't say it factually, but what I believe I witnessed and noticed over time is that she bought in and she enabled it. My poor son, instead of empowering, how do you get stronger out of this son? It's like, oh, you poor thing, who's going to help him get a job and who's going to do this? So as part of that, she approached Chris. She was an aide at the children's school and said, can you help my son? You know, he has PTSD. And so, of course, Chris said, absolutely.

And so much so that he thought, I don't even want to, he dropped off the kids at school when she said that came home and then said, I don't want to put her through trying to even get a hold of me or whatever. I'm just going to drive back to the school and talk to her. And so does your son, does your son like to shoot is what he said? Because there was a lot of success shoulder to shoulder, right? Instead of eye to eye, if you can be shoulder to shoulder with somebody's had trauma, it's very effective in talking.

And he had a lot of success with people being in nature, shoulder to shoulder, and opening up in conversation. So she said yes. And what we found out at the murder trial was that they had taken the guns out of their home just months prior because her son had threatened to kill himself and everyone in his family because he didn't get what he wanted for something. And so I bring this up because I think there's something really powerful about being unafraid of the difficult things, right? wouldn't it have been great if she could have had the faith and the fearlessness to say he does like to shoot but now's not a good time for him he's really struggling with something else even if she believed that he had PTSD Chris could have adapted but it it wasn't the case and and so you know he goes down and in cold blood there's no there's no reason and there's no

insanity that we could find because he waited until the perfect second when Chris was at a shooting range and he brought like an old west replica pistol i mean these were not combat guns that he was bringing it was supposed to be a very relaxed environment and he had shot his last bullet and hadn't even put his arm down before the gunman riddled him with bullets and the other guy within seconds if not at the same time so it was a very thought out thing so then you think well if i was to say where was god in that how do i make sense of that i go god knew this was going to happen He saw, didn't like, but saw what was happening all along with the mom, with the entitlement, the kid that he was going to murder. But what God did is he used the years prior to that to start building my faith and to start showing me that he is, it gives me chills when I'm talking about ever present, that when I was afraid for Chris's life, you know, if people have seen the movie, they always wonder, did you hear the gunshots in the background on the phone calls?

Every once in a while. And so how did I say, okay, God, it's yours? And Chris and I had the conversations when his friends would die. Some of them, like him, are in combat all this while and they don't die. And then somebody else steps off the helicopter for the first, you know, deployment. And that we had time to process there is no fair. And that we can't, it's not ours to question. I mean, we can question, but it's not like we can demand an answer, right?

Some of it we just haven't let be. Sometimes there's not an answer. Right. You know, and I think, so God had shown me all that. And then the other part of that is I had been a single mom many times in spurts. And so, and I was not always happy about that, right? It was hard. Sometimes I would feel like, this is really, how do I do this?

And it was before we had, you know, Instacart delivering groceries or whatever. You know, my family wasn't around. Nobody's family was around. It was just me trying to take my kids and do it. And I think, thank you, God, for preparing me. And I see when I look back, the first. finite ways, the big ways that he prepared me to survive and would allow me to thrive during, you know, not only the murder, but then I know I've talked to you too. There were so many things

afterward, so many betrayals and people taking advantage and family issues and things that I went, there's just no way. There's no way this is happening. I don't understand. I always knew that I didn't have to understand for God to be working it out. I want to unpack that a little more because I think it's important. I've gotten to know you and Colton a little bit. Yes. And if I had to choose a word, I think it would be overcomer. Oh, thank you.

Because there's been not an event, there's been this series of events. Yeah. And I interact with a lot of people, and it's very tempting when tragedy touches, when evil touches your life. It's unfair, it takes advantage, it doesn't play by the rules, that's why it's evil. Right. And you can choose permanent victim status. You can stop trying to be. You know, there's a lot of ways we respond.

And your family, you chose different responses. Your response is different than your children's a little bit. Yeah. But together, you've been overcomers. But the disappointment doesn't stop with that. Yeah. You know, I lived in Israel, and it's the secondary attacks that are the most dangerous. When there's a terrorist attack, they wait for the first responders to show up,

and then they take them out. Yeah. And as I listened to you, I was thinking of that imagery because the secondary and the tertiary attacks will crush your spirit if you live, because people that say they're coming to help. So maybe can you tell a little bit of that? I don't want to rat anybody out, but it wasn't just like an event in your life.

Right. And you know what? That's so powerful what you just said. I'm going to remember that. And that visual is going to stay in my mind about the secondary and tertiary because the truth is evil doesn't have new tricks. It's the same dang tricks all over. But sometimes we think, well, we might be a moment.

immune in some ways. We can get comfortable or just at least for me, I thought I don't see it coming. Or if you're not participating, it shouldn't really hit you too much, like a little will, but like a full storm of it. And so, yeah, what I didn't know and didn't know how to prepare for was that there will be people who will see you down and will, for their own broken reasons, maybe want to throw dirt, take advantage. In Chris's situation, it was odd because it's like they wanted, he had this unexpected overnight notoriety. And so there were some people that wanted that. There were some people that wanted to take from us personally. And then there were some people that didn't know how to deal with their grief, I think, from what I can tell, and turned it into hate.

and I just had to start to learn, okay, for in some situations, there's not a rational, logical way out. And it's not that Taya can't figure out what to do because Taya is an overthinker who tries everything to the point of exhaustion. So I thought, okay, at that point, I think God allowed me to try all these things until I went, okay, this actually isn't mine at all. This is yours. And I started to figure out, if I believe, and I do, that God is pursuing his children, that the Holy Spirit is pursuing the hearts of the people that he wants to bring home, what makes me think I can reach them if the Holy Spirit hasn't? If that opportunity isn't

coming to me, right? And I'm not saying be lazy, but I'm saying I can't, I can't force it. And I have to get comfortable with everybody having their own story. People need to believe what they need to believe. I had a hunger for dogged determination for truth at any cost, figuring. it out and dive in, you know, and I thought, that's not everybody's style. And if I do believe, which I do, that God has the orchestra and it's a symphony he's writing, there are different instruments and they have perfect understanding one day. If we all get to share information, I think, well, this person maybe has to understand this part. Maybe this is mine to understand. And they have that. And together the symphony in heaven plays out.

I said that with my father recently did a podcast. He told the story how he came to faith, how God transformed our family. They started a home Bible study all the way up to the beginning of this church that I've served now for decades. As I listened, the heart of it was the work of the Holy Spirit in his life and through his life. I ask him to do a book around the topic and we have it so that you can invite the Spirit of God to be the dynamic presence of the power of God to bring change in life and hope no matter what the circumstance. You'll enjoy the book. Experience the Holy Spirit in a deeper way with this new book by Pastor Allen's dad, The Eternal Breath of Life.

Request your copy when you donate any amount today, and when you give $50 or more, you can also request unleashing the power of the Holy Spirit. It's a collection of Pastor Allen's sermons that will help you understand the Holy Spirit in new ways. Request yours today at allanjaxon.com. You shared an illustration in your imagination. because you said God keeps putting these challenges,

these challenges keep presenting themselves. Yes. And you've got, I think, a beautiful word picture of how you face that. Can you share it with the folks? Yes, I'd love to, because I imagine there's somebody out there is facing the same thing. And I was thinking, okay, God, you've shown me,

at this point I was saying, you've shown me that it's not in my power or ability and that I have to rely on you because I was so overwhelmed I couldn't, and then I would notice how things would fall in place. Only God could do it. I, on many different levels, I thought these are only things that God could do. And, and by the way, also, I don't want to forget that there were tremendous kindnesses, you know, along the way too.

So, so I'm on the edge, I pictured, I'm on the edge of this cliff, and God says, jump, and I'll be the parachute. So I was telling a friend of mine, I said, I've had this visual. God has asked me to jump. I've stood at the edge of the cliff and jumped. Without the parachute, he's the parachute, done it. And he's asked me again, and I've done it again. and how many times he can ask me because I've proven I will. So I'm at this point asking, why are you asking me to keep doing this, God?

Why would you keep asking? Thinking that the point was for me to prove that I trusted him and I had. And it was days later where I felt like I got the answer. And comically to me, it was like, I feel like, God, you know, he knows. So he was like, she's mad, just give her a couple days, you know. And then he said, until it's fun. and it just washed over me like, whoa, okay, so I pictured the girl jumping off the cliff and her dad is saying like, how do you think I'm going to catch you? You know, like, I got you

by the wrist. I got you by the ankle. Ooh, did you see, I let you do a little flip there? You know, but I still got you. And I feel like in some ways is that treat your trials and tribulations with great joy. I used to be like, that's ridiculous. That's asking too much. And now I think if we live the way that I want to live, which is I understand the bad things happen. They will continue to happen, and I want to be unafraid, which is what I think God asks of us. The explanation for me is, then let me enjoy to see how you work at God, because I know I'm not going to be expected to do all. I need to show up. I need to learn. I need to pray that God weeds out the weeds in my mind and plants the flowers. Outside of that, though, it's really

him doing the gardening. So that has been a tremendous gift. I would say the trials and tribulations have made me an incredibly different kind of Christian, and I'm grateful. And likely, I think it's fair to say I would not. I'd like to think my faith would be the same without all of that. I just don't think it's possible. I think that he allowed it because he knew that he could change my heart and my faith in a way that I would be extraordinarily grateful for. And I see it live out with McKenna and Colton.

I mean, McKenna's had some anger and frustration with God along the way. because how do you love somebody and let that happen to them, the question that we all have at some point? Good question. Right? She's like, if I had a puppy, I wouldn't create a puppy and think how cute it is just to know he's going to get kicked all the time. Like, you know, it was like not making sense.

To watch her go from that to, yeah, I think it's going to be all right at work today. You know, I mean, I just, I know God's going to work it out. I mean, she's just 19. And she's got faith that God will work it out because she's experienced it. And she's been able to answer some of those difficult questions that I'm not saying her lessons are anywhere near over, but that foundational block, she's learned the price she paid is missing a childhood, a full childhood.

I mean, we did a lot of fun things, but the full idyllic childhood, many people don't get it. She's one of them. But she will be able to create something else that I think she'll have childlike joy, childlike faith. You know, she'll get some of her childhood back in different ways as an adult because of God's grace. Well, there's not, life is not ideal. No one's life is ideal. Right.

You know, when I hear people describe a life and it's too idyllic, you know, we've been married 47 years and we've never had a fight. I think to myself, either you're stupid or you're lying. I usually think they're lying, but yeah. But it could be both. Maybe you weren't smart enough to argue. I don't know. But life is not idealic. And I've been challenged.

by your story because I know Colton. I don't know your daughter yet, but I look forward to that. I do too. And they've processed it differently. Yes. But they have rich lives. Colton's engaged to be married soon. Yes.

Very exciting. Yeah. And working really with American sniper. Yep. With the brand and all the stuff that his dad gave him. And we're sharing some of the life lessons his dad taught him. Yes. Really good life lessons.

They really are. you know, and some of them are funny and fun. And some of them are just, you know, even their dad's life, the gift of loving. I mean, he was an incredible father, a really good, playful, loving, kind father. And the way that he felt for his children, I think is so beautiful and paints the picture of what you want the ideal warrior to be, somebody who will fight if they have to. But he's not looking for the fight. Right.

and who also has a softness to them that they offer freely to people they love. And that was definitely him. But so to lose that, Colton's not afraid of a challenge, right? McKenna's not afraid of a challenge because they've lived it. And like he said, Colton's getting married and he's running a brand and things that I think are a lot for a young man. And he handles it with a piece of it's just going to have to work out one way. It will have its troubles is fine. you know he's not expecting it to work out without troubles but he also knows that he's been

tested and and he knows where the the peace in the chaos lies and the peace isn't in the circumstances it's in god well i i'm sure chris is smiling i hope so when he sees the progress in what you've done i think so yeah i i do i may have an unnatural amount of time that i spend thinking about heaven and the afterlife and uh i do sometimes feel like I've got one foot here and just a toe that keeps trying or another foot that tries to get over there and see like, what's that like? But I feel like his humble heart and, which by the way, maybe it's a whole other podcast, but I realize we're not married in heaven. That's a hard one. I think it was a hard one for me to get my head around a little bit. And then,

and so to say he's a soul who has happiness, joy, perfect understanding and gets to see the result of his love and his efforts playing out in this fallen world in a way that still benefits the kingdom must, I hope, make him feel like, you know, that's all right. It's, you know, it's all right. And we're pretty limited on what the scripture tells us about the transition between now and next. Yeah. But it leads me to the conclusion that I think the people that have gone ahead of us are aware of what's happening. I do too. I firmly believe that. You know that Hebrew scripture which says we're surrounded by this great cloud of witnesses. It's the imagery of a stadium. Yes. Filled with people, but this is our time in the arena. Yes. Yes. But the rest of them

are there watching us in the arena. Yeah. So yeah, I definitely think. Yeah. That's an important part of your story. You didn't just stop and cry and heal. You started a foundation. You're writing books. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, tell us a little bit about the foundation. So the foundation is something I am passionate about and it's difficult work. It is difficult because we are with couples for a two-year period of time. That's amazing. And they come to us, they apply, it's free to them. We work solely on donations.

And we come from a place of their strengths. So we welcome them in and we say, look, your marriage is less than 1% of the population will understand their marriage. And they are not going to go to their organizations for help. I think all the organizations want to offer help at this point. because they realize marriage. Is for veterans and first responders, right? Yeah, veterans and first responders,

active duty and retired. And they need a place where they can go where their career for sure won't be affected. And interestingly, we pair them across the country. So when we do small groups, it could be a firefighter in Los Angeles with a police officer in New York, with a green beret in Minnesota, whatever.

You know, it's, and when we do that, and it's just, we do small group men, small group women's couple, and then a coach one-on-one with the couple, they can get vulnerable really fast because there's nothing to risk. They're not going to see them at the grocery store and their career's not going to be tanked or whatever they say.

So that's been an incredible experience to be able to invest in their marriages, give them tools that very few people have. I mean, my parents fought for their marriage and did a great job, but that didn't prepare me for a military marriage. It prepared me for a civilian marriage, which was different, you know,

dinner at 6 o'clock or, you know, making time for each other you can't count on schedules. You don't know if they're going to live or die. You might say you might die this deployment and I need to pull back emotionally to protect myself. I mean, there's all these nuances or, you know, the organization says for sure you'll be there for your kids' birthday party this year, you know, and then they're not. And like, you know, all of the ways that these marriages are taxed, we've been able to, by the grace of God, I truly believe, find the tools and the ways to help them from a strengths-based method where we say take a

strength assessment now we're going to work on your strengths in your marriage and here's how it's going to benefit your family and we have people who go from if they're actively suicidal we ask them to get help and we have some but from suicidal ideation which is you know i want to die and i think about dying a lot to i'm on a second honeymoon my kids want to hang out with us again instead of log themselves away in their room, I can do this. And the hope is contagious. It's absolutely incredible to watch them put in the work to make it change. What's the name of the foundation?

Is Taya and Chris Kyle family, service marriage strong, which I know I laughed about with you earlier. It's a very long name, but TACF, T-A-C-F.org, that's a very long name. But the work is good and solid, and we've been doing it for over a decade now. That is awesome. And you've written a children's book. Yes. Prayers for Bears. Yes, Bailey, the Grateful Bear. I love it. How did you get the title? Actually, I had another book that I wanted to write, and a publisher said, it's got to be something rhyming and cute. How about prayers for bears? And I was like, all right, I have to change all the characters. But the message is gratitude even when things aren't going your way. And it's, I think incredibly important because, I don't know. I mean, do you think our society is a little bit into complaining? and just a little bit. Couldn't be. Right?

And so I want to say, like, look, you might not be having the best day. And there's a, it's not, but both things are true. These things are not right with the world. And in Bailey's case, Bailey the Grateful Bear, there's, Bailey has a shelter and nourishment, a roof over, over their head and food to eat. And some days, that may be all you have. And that's worthy of your gratitude. It is.

you know, one of the objectives with this podcast is to try to help people listening always respond with what can we do. Yeah. And as we have gotten to visit a little bit, your refusal to be a victim, the refusal to stop, and to get to know your children and to see that spirit in them expressed through their own personalities. Yes. So we've got people listening that life has not been fair. circumstances suck. Yeah. What are you going to say to them today?

It's a great question. The best thing I can offer, I believe, is one, pour it out to God. I don't mean that in a cliche way. I mean literally, when you're mad, say I'm mad. You can be an overcomer and still have days where you're just frustrated, sad, exhausted, and I hope that I can encourage people to give themselves space for that. and space to come in strong. And truly we can't compare our lives to anyone else

and everyone does suffer whether they want to say it or not. So I think we're fairly savvy knowing that most people airbrush their lives on social media. But the reality is everyone in the Bible, I was thinking about this actually before I came here today, John the Baptist, Paul, Daniel, Jesus himself, they're suffering. and their story would not be as impactful for the kingdom at all

if they hadn't had the suffering and the recovery. And we have lamentations to show us that that's part of it, right? So that's one of the things I learned. In the beginning, I just thought I'm crying and I'm devastated and I just have to keep going. And I've learned at this point, it's okay to stop and breathe in the pain and keep going. Don't stop.

Don't stop. We may be walking through a shadowed valley, but heaven's sakes, don't stop. camp. Yeah, don't stop. Yeah, exactly. I mean, and I do believe that we all suffer. That's, and that's a can be a difficult thing until we start seeing it like an obstacle course, a training ground for something better and different. And the expect, I think the more I've accepted the fallen nature of everything, the more joyful I am, which doesn't seem like that would be the case. It almost seems like, no, we have to believe the best, you know, if we want to be happy. And it's like,

or just accept that it's all kind of a mess. And there's a lot of joy to be had even in the mess, a lot of peace to be had even in the mess. If you just go, yeah, this is, yeah, this is the falling world. Your response doesn't feel to me like that superficial, happy, clappy, oh, let's be perky. Right, no.

I don't think that's you. No, it's not. At all. No, I hope to be an encourager and also realize. Well, I thank you for making the effort to tell your story. Thank you. And not giving in or giving up.

You have inspired me. Well, that's a blessing because I have been binging your sermons and all that. I am very inspired by the work that you're doing. So it's an incredible blessing to be able to have a conversation with you. Well, to tell you, Kyle, I think your faith story is as dramatic as your husband's military record. Wow, thank you. And I think God will use your life to make a difference in ways we can't imagine yet. Well, thank you.

Don't grow weary. Yes, okay, thank you. Hey, thanks for joining me today. Before you go, please like the podcast and leave a comment so more people can hear about this topic, too. If you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to Alan Jackson Ministries YouTube channel and follow the Culture and Christianity podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Together, let's learn how to lead with our faith and change our culture. I'll see you next time.