Daisie Dates - EP 28 | How much conflict is OK?!

Episode Date: September 6, 2024

Welcome to another episodes of the Daisie Dates podcast, where I, Daisie-Belle, sit down with here we dive into the heart of relationships with Mackinzie Rummell, an experienced couples therapist passionate about helping partners connect on a deeper, more meaningful level. In this episode, Mackninzie shares insights into what makes relationships thrive, including the essential ratio of happiness to conflict that couples should aim for in their daily lives - you may be surprised to hear what that actually is!! This is a must-listen if you're in a relationship and want a few fresh date ideas or to understand how simple it can be to resolve conflicts—especially with someone there to help facilitate the conversation. If you’re single, it’s a powerful reminder that all relationships take work. Whether you're looking to strengthen your bond, navigate challenges, or prepare for future relationships, this podcast offers practical advice and expert guidance to help you flourish. Tune in to discover the keys to lasting love and a harmonious partnership, from a couples therapist point of view. You can send your dating dilemmas, issues and questions to: Daisie-Belle ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ Daisie Dates Podcast ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ [e-mail] & the Daisie Dates Facebook Group, too! Follow Mackinzie: Insta - beachy.therapist https://stan.store/beachytherapist P.S This is a relationships and dating podcast which is in the podcast charts. I cover mindset, heartbreak, rewiring thoughts and we chat all things finding love, as well as finding ways for being happy single and embracing dating, choosing to not date at all or just having fun!  Follow everywhere Insta: @daisiedatespodcast and @daisiebelleTikTok: @daisiebelle6 @daisiedatespodcast PLEASE like and subscribe or leave a review - every little helps and this podcast is produced, presented, filmed and edited by me. Dais xo Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter License code: URJJ4LUJNID4SR9B

Hello, welcome to the Daisy Nates podcast where I chat everything about love, heartbreak and well, everything in between. And sometimes I'm joined by really special guests. Today, Mackenzie Rummel joins me, who is a relationship therapist and coach actually based in California in the USA. She's passionate about helping couples connect deeply and create a lifetime of meaningful connection. I was really excited to explore this when I first followed her. She's passionate about helping couples connect deeply and create a lifetime of meaningful connection. I was really excited to explore this when I first followed her. It's taken us a while to align our timetables, unfortunately. But recently I've noticed she's been hosting couples retreats in California as well.

And I know that there was one really successful one recently this month in August at time of recording. So a massive welcome to the podcast, Mackenzie, and thank you so much for joining us here in the UK. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like I'm there with you, even though it's all virtual. I know it's strange, isn't it? I love it though, how we can just all connect now. And, you know, the advice stays the same no matter where we are ultimately. And that's the good thing about this topic everyone experiences it so you know I've followed you for a little while now and I just love your page thank you I love specifically that you do work with couples I do have some followers that still follow me after having met someone now because I don't know if you do know but this

podcast did kind of start with me being single with a very rocky journey of ghosting and all of that right and it really suddenly changed for me personally with like I'm now in a healthy relationship and it has been over a year now so congratulations well thank you but I've struggled to know how to change that content to kind of benefit everyone still so that's why I was really excited to talk to you about this kind of like deeper connection in the romantic relationships and what exactly it means. So first off, what made you want to work specifically with couples? Yeah, so my journey was also personal. I think that's where a lot of our passions come from. I mean, everyone I've talked to always has almost like a personal tie to what they do.

So for me, I went to school for therapy. I thought I would just be seeing teens and young women and kind of just work my way through what I was interested in. But then I got engaged and I got married and I was actually previously engaged before I got married to somebody else. So I had gone through my own kind of tumultuous heartbreak and, um, you know, the unknown and really fearing if I would find my person. And I did, I definitely did. I would say with my husband, I knew immediately it was almost like as close to love at first sight that you could get. Wow. Okay. Wow.

We were, yeah, we were very connected very quickly. We like kind of immediately were like, oh my gosh, this is who I've been waiting for, which is odd. I know that's not everybody's story. And we actually started dating two weeks before the COVID shut down, at least here in the United States. So when we first met, we had only gone on a few dates before the world was completely flipped upside down. And we kind of had this conversation. I remember him calling me on his way home from work and was like, okay, so we're not really supposed to see anybody. Do you still want to, I mean, we're dating, we're started, just started dating. Would you still want to, I mean, we're dating where it started, just started dating. Would you still want to date? And I was like, absolutely. Yeah. And he's like, do you see this going somewhere? Because we probably should figure that out now before we risk any, you know,

because at that time it was really scary. It was like, it was so scary. It was like, you're going to die if you talk to anybody. So we were like, yeah, like I'm, I'm very interested. He was like, I'm very interested as well. So we, you know, started dating and it was, um, eight months and we got engaged eight more months. We had a COVID wedding with 50 people, super intimate. Wow. And we got married. So we had this crazy journey of, um, you know, almost like fast, but we knew, we knew that we were it. So with that being said, I had no doubt in my mind that he was my person. I was not at all ever questioning, well, is this too fast? Never, never had a second, second thought. Um, but when we did get married,

you know, we started living together. We didn't live together before we were married. And we just really started having conflict in a way that we had never experienced before. And we really were butting heads in a way that was at least for me and what I came from. I came from a single mom. And so I didn't really see a marriage play out in front of my eyes. And I thought something was so wrong with us. I was like, oh my gosh, we're going to get divorced. This is not good. I'm so scared. I was so scared. And I was so oblivious, even being a therapist, because I wasn't a couples therapist. I was so oblivious to the understanding of conflict in a relationship. And if you are preparing to be with somebody for 30, 40 years, like in a marriage, like,

you know what him and I intend to do, oh, of course you're going to have conflict. And of course you're going to have to figure out how to communicate well, what your styles of conflict are, what's okay with you, what's not okay with you, the boundaries there. And I think we both just had no idea what we were in for. there. And I think we both just had no idea what we were in for. So, you know, him and I did couples therapy and then I was doing my own individual therapy. So was he. So we really hit it hard. We were like, we're not going to let this be a problem. Um, we're really going to work on this as, as much as we possibly can. So I, I would definitely say we're on the other side of that, um, kind of difficult time.

We still have our moments, of course, but we have so many skills. And with that, I just dove into passion for it because I was learning it. And then I was like, I want to learn this on a professional side. So not only was I learning it personally, but then I kind of flipped it over to professional. And I really, I utilized the Gottman method, which is, um, Dr. John and Julie Gottman are kind of the leading researchers in, um, relationships, marriage, divorce, divorce predictors. So they've actually found, um, solid, solid data and research on, you know, what actually predicts divorce and all of those things. So I dove head first into that. predicts divorce and all of those things. So I dove headfirst into that. I really trust that research. And that's why I'm here now. So now I have new couples and I absolutely love it. I love

helping them get to that point of understanding. I've noticed the turning point for some couples of like, we get it now. It's like they just needed a few things and it feels so simple to me because I teach it all the time. But I have to remember that the people coming in are they're starting at square one so that's why that's why I started that was my journey that's so interesting because there's probably a lot of people that do couple therapy that um like haven't really gone through it as a couple themselves it's really helpful that you are able to come from a place where you went through it so you can really solidly give this advice and see the outcome that it worked um myself and my partner don't live together just yet but he spends a lot of time at mine so we're kind of in that limbo stage where he still wants to buy his

own place I have mine so we're in this limbo where he's at mine a lot but I support his goals that he still wants his own place but then it does mean he's at mine a lot but I support his goals that he still wants his own place but then it does mean he's at mine a lot in my space so the only conflict we've kind of had are like the householdy bits you know like the chores and all of that and and we're like ah clashing heads because we do things so differently and I think you do have to come to a place where we're like you can never change this about yourself I might never be able to change this so we like you have to meet halfway and I guess you help people to see that and practice that a little bit better um because it is hard I mean I think it's so hard that you're expected to live with someone for like 50 plus years of your life and like sharing a bed as well

oh my god we have rubbish sleep now. I know. Yeah, me and my husband are so different with our sleep. Even like today, like I was like, goodbye, I'm leaving. I have the podcast. And he's like, oh, it's so early. I'm like, I'm leaving. I'll see you later. Yeah.

Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it? Okay. So then how, when would you say couples should go to couples therapy? When is the right time to go is there a right time yeah I would say there is always a good time to go kind of in the beginning of your relationship when you are intending long-term commitment so if that's marriage for you beautiful that would be like premarital therapy um orarital counseling, as you've maybe heard it. At least over here in the States, it's really popular for Christian couples to get that premarital therapy with a pastor.

But I have found a little bit of an issue with that just because they provide awesome spiritual guidance and that is totally their wheelhouse. But a lot of times these couples come to me afterwards and they're like, oh my gosh, we were never talking about conflict or communication. So they get some great stuff, um, in that kind of spiritual counseling, um, about what marriage means to them and all of that good stuff. But I think on the flip side, there's that communication and conflict bit that's not included. Um, another good time and kind of when you maybe should be thinking about couples therapy is if, um, there's really a gridlock. So gridlock is kind of another word for a conflict that's not resolving itself over time,

um, that you're not able to talk it through. So it's not like, okay, we had our first fight. We have to go to couples therapy. Um, it's more of, we've been continuously having maybe the same fight over and over again. Um, maybe things are escalating, maybe yelling is happening or you're feeling really dysregulated during the fighting. Um, that is a surefire sign that you're getting triggered a little bit deeper than just, you didn't do the dishes. Um, it's usually you didn't do the dishes and I don't feel cared for in our relationship. It's more, there's usually a deeper feeling there of, I don't feel appreciated. Um, I feel like your mom or, you know, things like that, where there's like kind of these big feelings, um, rather than just like, Hey, we do dishes

differently and we probably should figure that out. Um, so there's like a big kind of, if you notice there's a big, um, almost disruption in your functioning as a couple, maybe it's getting in the way of plans. Maybe you're not going places because you have to resolve the conflict. Um, things like that, I would say to look out for, um, starting to feel really overwhelming too. And like, you guys can't handle it on your own. It is always good to have support people in your corner, but you know, with privacy and with the privacy of your relationship, I get a lot of people that are like, how do I, I don't want to talk to my sister about this because I don't want her to think of him badly. And I definitely don't want to talk to my mom about it because then she's going to

be worried about me and, you know, or a friend, like it's, it's good to talk to my mom about it because then she's gonna be worried about me and you know or a friend like it's it's good to come to a third person who has complete almost removal from your relationship so you kind of see it with clear eyes and help you guys through it yeah I read as well that um kind of the pointer to a healthy marriage and healthy relationship is I mean it makes sense really but to always have a higher percentage of the good times and the moment that the bad times and the conflict is really starting to eat into that and outweigh that's when it really starts to like take its toll and when things can maybe become a bit irreversible if you don't kind of nip it in the bud yeah yeah definitely there's

um Dr John and Julie Gottman they talk about this ratio um and in conflict you should have a five to one so let's say you know one of you is getting escalated and it's like oh you're so blank you know you you maybe call them a name or it's like a kind of a criticism you definitely want to have five good moments in that conflict for every one slip up almost. So that's a good rule of thumb for conflict. And then for what you're talking about, it's actually 20 to one. I know that sounds crazy and it sounds like a lot. I was just explaining this on the couples retreat actually, because my couples were like, what? 20? And I was like, yes, but let me explain. 20 good moments include just holding each other's

hand yeah they include even just like a touch of your hair over your ear any kind of physical touch is going to count as one of those any kind of thank you or I appreciate you that's going to count so you can rack them up pretty quickly. You're probably doing it all day without knowing if you guys are usually good, you're probably getting, you know, 100 of those a day. So yeah, but you're totally right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I get one today. I've just literally put, oh, I'll miss you tonight. So there's my one for the day. I can take that. There you go. Yeah. A simple text. It's anything. That's where connection is bred. It's like in these little moments over time.

And society, I was going to ask you the biggest problem that people tend to come to you with. I am going to assume it can be like money, I think can cause a lot of issues. I could be totally wrong. But I know society can be quite a big issue for couples like I know myself there's definitely pressure at times from like people outside of our circles you know like put in time pressures like when is this gonna happen when are you gonna move in together when is and I find that really overwhelming because we are completely okay

with what we are doing now and we are fine with it and then when other people come in with oh god but like the years go quick and then you'll be 35 and I'm like oh my god I can't deal with this conversation right now yeah and I then I find that I go to him and I take it out on him I guess a little bit like I get a bit frustrated like why don't we live together and he's like wait you told me you don't want that oh yeah no I don't and it's so it really for me it does like society can really be an issue or like people around us that say that can be an issue um do you find that that gets in the way of a lot of couples I haven't heard that specifically but I have heard it come up more in like individual therapy if that makes sense so yeah more like the women that I speak to or the, the young women that I'm talking to that maybe they're

starting a dating relationship or maybe they've been in a relationship for a while. And there is this kind of, um, Oh yeah. When are you, are you thinking about getting engaged and all of that stuff? At least in the U S um, I would say the wedding industry is really toxic. I think it's very, um, it's very, well, it's very lucrative, which is great for those vendors, but it is also very, um, I would say like focused on the day and not focused on the marriage. And I, I find that to be really concerning because I mean, if you look at just a normal person's Instagram or whatever, when they post a wedding photo, that wedding photo is getting the most likes, right? It's like you get a lot of attention when you get married. So I found that to be a big pressure over here. And I

have had women talk to me about, um, yeah, almost like the time, the timing of even in dating, I would say, because some people that I'm, that I see are not in a relationship, but that are dating or wanting to date or struggling with singleness. Um, so it can be, you know, hard when you are in that 30 age range and you feel like there is like a internal clock. And if you want to have children, it's like, you know, technically there is a time limit, but there's really not, there's lots of options. And, you know, we live in a world where like fertility is, is able to happen later. And that's awesome. So yeah, I do get a lot of that. I would say with couples though, I do see a lot of, it all boils down to communication. If I'm just being honest, it really does because we have our differences. So you're going to have, um, kind of when I'm talking about that fight that keeps happening or kind of, um, what you had mentioned too, they're called perpetual issues. And I know that sounds like scary and like, Oh no, perpetual forever. And it's kind of like, well, yeah, because some of these differences have to do with our

personality and who we are and how we grew up. And sometimes that's not something we can shift or change behaviorally. Um, sometimes it's just kind of in us and we have to be okay with that. And our partner, we, you know, we choose them for all their good qualities, but we also have to accept the not so great qualities. Um, so I see that a lot. I see communication and just the differences kind of really having, you know, having their hand in the conflict. So how do you help couples communicate better? So I would say, really, sometimes they just need a good reflection. So when big emotions are happening, and you're trying to communicate them, you're usually talking about the circumstance. So sometimes I take couples out of talking about the circumstance and get them into that with their partner, I definitely have them look at each other and tell them that. So I kind of take, uh, the job that I do is I take the situation out and I put the feelings in and I make them talk about it in front of me. And then if

they have, if they still have difficulty, I'll kind of guide and coach and support throughout. So, um, let's say one partner is saying, Hey, I really don't feel appreciated when you don't do the dishes. It makes me feel like I have to clean everything up. It reminds me of my mom growing up. You know, my dad didn't do anything around the house and she was always, always stressed about it and a mess. And I just don't want that for our life. And if the other person is like, well, that's not, I don't do that all the time. That's defensive. So I go, Oh, wait until you can actually hear them. I think what they're saying is that they feel really not appreciated. Is that what you're intending? And then the other

person can say, no, that's not what I'm intending. I kind I you know if there is any communication blips I can say wait you're doing that thing that we just talked about um don't do that let's try something else and um it can be you know it can be hard because I am calling them out on what they're doing wrong but they're also paying me to do that so if they want their money's worth I'm gonna do it yeah wow gosh I felt so interesting to see and also but also really rewarding work isn't it like because that is all it takes to tell an emotion and the other person to hear it take it on and be like fine yeah I don't want you to feel like that so I'll continue to work on this so that you don't feel like that because I'm sure normally when that happens the partner's actually quite upset to hear that they're making the person feel like that I mean not doing the dishes isn't intending someone to not you know on purpose it's just

dishes for some people um so yeah really interesting so then and then you're turning the conflict into connection is that the process there that you're doing so I know you talk about this a lot in your work yeah so once they kind of get past the situation and kind of the circumstance and they get to those feelings, usually there's a moment both partners are not escalated or triggered and kind of their nervous systems are regulated and you really hear what your partner is saying. There's kind of that moment of even tears happen and it's like, oh my gosh, I didn't, I didn't mean for that. I love you. I appreciate you. Um, I want to work on this with you. Even if you're not actually solving the problem, the situation at home,

even if you never get to a perfect place for those dishes, that intent and that, and hearing that I love you, I appreciate you. I want to be with you. I want to make this work. Um, you know, this, you matter more than me not wanting to do dishes late at night. You matter more than this conflict that we're going through. Um, hearing that from a partner is it's, it's so relieving because I think a lot of us worry about the other person leaving and abandonment wound is very common. So hearing, hearing somebody say like, I'm not going anywhere. I love you. I want to do this with you can be very connecting. Um, and I do see a lot of couples leave feeling more connected. Um, even if they were coming in for like a bad conflict problem. Um, I had a couple of the other day, I just started seeing them not too long ago.

And they said after their first session, um, they were like, we didn't even know if we needed to come back for another. And you know, they, they do, they probably need some more support, but I loved hearing that because it meant that even just that first time, just that one time of us talking and me helping them parse that out, they were able to do that on their own at home. So the goal is for them to not need me. I don't actually want to see couples for very long. Um, I think that they should be able, you should be able to do it on your own. Um, so it's really exciting when I, you know, see, see a couple for a couple months or six months, um, just depending on who they are and they're able to go out and do it by themselves. It's like, I'm, I'm teaching them how to do it.

Yeah. That's so cool though. Cause so many things get lost in communication, you know, and even on a friendship level, I had a friend recently that was like, like well they didn't communicate with me that they felt I wasn't really replying to them but I was working away so I didn't notice I wasn't really replying and then that just turned into someone ignoring me and then when you talk about it and I'm like hey are you okay they're like yeah you you were like not messaging and I was like oh god no it was just because of this this this I didn't mean to and so you see

in every kind of relationship we could probably all need help in every aspect of our life in that way yeah you do that I have watched couples around me not that I'm an expert but close couples to me um kind of end a relationship over just loads of different miscommunications ultimately and if they'd have just sat down and had someone kind of be able to facilitate the conversation because they couldn't themselves because it got too you know high rate and I offered to but it wouldn't be right because there'd be a bit of bias in there you know to the person like you need a separate person, like you said earlier. And I truly believe if they'd have done that,

then something's really truly could have been resolved. But I guess it takes a little courage. I think especially for guys to go to therapy, especially in the UK. I know the culture is a lot better for therapy in the US generally, I think. It seems you guys make it a little bit more into your timetable like the gym. Like it's more spoken about. It still isn't here as much as it should be. Yeah.

Interesting. I don't know if you think that's right or not for America. Yeah, I feel like I've definitely noticed the younger crowd, like the Gen Z crowd. I have a lot of teens. They love therapy. They love talking to somebody every week. It's almost like cool here in America. It's almost like, oh, if you've done therapy, it's not like a weird thing.

I don't know what I'm trying to say. You know what I mean? It's not looked down upon, especially with that crowd. I would say maybe more my generation, like millennial, older adult. It's still a little hard, I would say, with males especially. But I am seeing, I mean, I guess I only see couples that will come into therapy. So I don't really see anybody who isn't, um, you know, wanting therapy because anytime I get an inquiry about couples therapy, I always, um, say that both partners have to be on the consultation call.

Yeah. I'll get a lot of women that will be like, yeah, we need couples therapy. And it's just them on the phone. And I'm like, well, where's your partner? Oh, well, he doesn't know I'm contacting you. And I'm like, well, that's the first problem. Like you need to tell him that you want couple therapy. So I always put that caveat. Yeah. Because I, I want both of them to want it. It's not going to work if you don't want to be here. Um, or if you don't want to engage in your relationship in that way and grow it and stretch it yeah um so yeah but I didn't know that about the UK that it's more of a taboo yeah not so taboo but just um I think it would take a lot generally I am really talking generally I'm sure but like I I have a few guy friends that would say yeah I'm going to therapy but I think we definitely need

to embed it a little bit more like you know going to the gym is for our body therapy can be the mind and we need to embed but you are right the Gen Z crowds are definitely better here and I think TikTok has done that for sure like helped make it feel cool to be able to talk about your emotions I've definitely seen that rise which is good um what is really interesting that I didn't know about you is that you did meet your what you felt that like this is it kind of feeling when you first met your partner um that's so intriguing for me because I didn't really know that was a thing like to feel it immediately yeah it's quite amazing so I know people talk about a spark and I've always said like the spark isn't a thing like you don't get an instant spark but do you guys get an instant spark then because yeah I think we did and I don't know if that was purely attraction I'm not sure about you know the

research behind that and like the spark but we definitely like the way that we both describe it and looking back on it now, it's like, um, we, we met through church, but we were not at church. We were at a retreat for church, which is funny that I do retreats now, but anyway, we were at a retreat. Um, and so they had, you know, the girls cabin and the boys cabin, you cabin. It was like young adults. So they kept us separate because, you know, shenanigans. But, um, the first night our pastor, he said, um, okay, I don't want everybody hanging out with your friends. I want you to meet somebody new. There's like 50 people here, meet somebody you've never met. And so we just look, we happen to look at the same time and we looked at each other and I had seen him around,

but I was not, I was not dating at that point. I didn't want to date. I have, you know, I had that relationship that I ended and I was like, I'm really just feeling good single. And I looked at him and I was like, oh my gosh, he's looking at me. And so I smiled and I was like, do you want to meet? And so we just connected. And honestly, yeah, I felt it in my chest. I felt, I was like, and I was so nervous and I was like, I never get like this. Like I don't usually feel like this towards anyone. Um, and I definitely was, yeah, I definitely was attracted, definitely was intrigued by him as a person. Um, and we ended up not talking on Saturday until later at night. We both did separate things during the day. And then we had, um, we were at a bowling

alley for like the evening and I decided to not join because there was too many people. So they needed a few people to sit out because there was not enough lanes for the bowling. And so I said, I'll sit out with the guys. I'll go sit near his, where he is. So I can just make sure I'm near him to see if he'll talk to me a little bit more. And he did. And we talked all night long. Like we could not stop talking. And yeah, we just started dating from then on but yeah we definitely had that immediate spark again I don't know if it was just attraction or if there was something more there uh it obviously turned into something more for us but yeah we both definitely describe it as that it's kind of funny to look back on we're like wow that's interesting because I feel like Instagram

is like inundated with like the spark isn't real that's just your nervous system blah blah blah but obviously you have real lived experience of feeling that like wow this person immediately so obviously there is something around that that does really exist I've actually no one yet has told that story that's been on um wow yeah a lot of the people I've had on have described like a really slow healthy burn type thing um okay that's really good to have another perspective and show that perhaps if you do feel that connection with someone um yeah that it can also be a good thing awesome we always we always joke that um the passion was so there in the beginning which is why the passion was so there in the beginning, which is why the passion was there in our conflict.

So maybe that's part of it too. It's like, we were so attracted and so like connected and excited for each other that when we did get to this conflict point, it was like, not so great. So we always joke, we're like, well, we just have a lot of passion in our relationship. Yeah, I get that. We burn hot and fast I guess yeah and that was so you met you said just before lockdown type thing yeah so it's all happened in a few years that's so interesting wow okay and you speak about deeper connection um so what can couples do when they are together like long term to create that deeper connection like are there types of dates like are there activities that you set people like what can people do to ensure that they're like connecting maybe at times when they really feel like they're not yeah I yeah I

definitely encourage this because I think we're used to I would even say and he won't care that I share this but this week my husband and I even, we were like, wow, we're really not connected this week. Like we are not, we had so many things. So I had the retreat and we also had family in town that same weekend. And then throughout the week, we had lots of family things for some reason. It was like one thing after another, it was my niece's 16th birthday. So we spent the day in Los Angeles all day. It was like a very long day. And then I'm working too. So it's like, I'm also working. Um, and same with him. So yeah, we even, it was just yesterday we were like, Oh my gosh, we haven't had just a you

and I day or even date or night. It doesn't need to be crazy. It just, we have not had our alone time like at all. Um, and that really affects us. Like even just a week of that, of us not having that connecting time. So what I really encourage for deeper connection is emotional connection. Um, so I think a lot of people think, Oh, we have to go on this romantic date. That's so great. And if you want to do that and you have the money for that, great, do that. But what kind of conversations are you having? Are you talking about what's bothering you in your life right now? Who's bothering you at work right now? What are your dreams right now? Do you have any ideas, any new ideas? How are things with your family? How are you feeling with this relationship? I know sometimes

this relationship is hard for you. Um, things like that, I would say deeper than just the surface. And I think a lot of us sometimes even, um, we'll just sit on the couch and we'll be on our phones or, um, you know, we'll just throw on a TV show, which is also fine. And me and my husband definitely do that and have, have that time. But I think you also have to pair it with, um, more of an intentional time together and actual connecting. Um, and you had mentioned like, Oh, different types of dates. So I would say that falls under the category of novelty in general. Um, so physical intimacy as well as emotional intimacy. So just doing something new together, um, that could, that could just be, yeah, finding a new cool date spot. I think I had sent,

sent my husband something for, um, the fall, like to go apple picking and to see the horses. And it's like this little ranch. And I'm like, I want to do that. I would love to go there and see that. And he's like, okay. So I, you know, he bookmarked it and maybe he'll plan that, you know, for the fall at some point. So that's a novel thing. And then of course, getting kind of into like the physical intimacy part, like keeping that novel and keeping that fun as well, um, definitely can help your connection. You definitely need both parts to stay deeply connected, um, the emotional intimacy and the physical intimacy yeah yeah we we recently I mean this is probably a lot more common for you but the weather here is so inconsistent so we were trying to make the most these summer nights so I

made like a basket picnic and we just went to like a completely random spot near like a lake and it was gorgeous the sunsets have been like beautiful and that was literally it cost me like no money just the food and it was just the food which you're gonna buy anyway yeah and it was a beautiful day because there was like no one around because it was like a big country park and like you we get really lost in like my really busy timetable and then like he lives a little bit further away. So sometimes we just don't see each other for ages and we're like, oh my God, we haven't had time on our own because we're also so sociable.

So we really do try hard to like... There's days where we're like, right, today, if anyone calls, we either don't answer or we say no. We make a point that we're having this day together or else we end up just being like, oh, do you want to come here and we just go and then the day again is is with loads of people which we love but I feel I feel like I can't do that all the time I do like that like one-on-one time yeah and like I said it is necessary yeah absolutely yeah and I love it I get caught up into it too like oh this friend called us and drinks tonight you want to go it's like

yeah and then you end up just end up not feeling connected at all yeah um then can we talk about welcoming a healthy relationship um I think it was a little while ago now when we were supposed to speak originally and then our timetables kind of clashed but yeah you you did a post about um being like an independent woman but separating the independence that we kind of want and that we have now as women but also like being able to be independent whilst also being in a healthy relationship and you know letting the guy look after us type thing so yeah welcoming a healthy relationship because I know I found that hard I definitely found it hard yeah definitely yeah and I I think I did at first and then I kind of released it a little bit um because I do think

we get this message at least and with me having a single mom, I kind of saw like, okay, I need to take care of myself. I need to make sure I'm good financially and otherwise so that I don't need a man. I want a man. So I always had that mentality kind of in my young adulthood. And I think it really just depends on your values too. Like if you are not interested in having a long-term committed relationship or you don't want to get married, okay, obviously this podcast isn't for you, but if you, if you aren't feeling that pull towards it, that's totally fine. I'm going to speak towards more, um, women who do want to be married or be in a committed relationship and be with somebody for a long time, you do have to kind of release

that independence a little bit. What I really like to teach couples is instead of codependence, I teach interdependence. So there's kind of this back and forth of, I need you for this, you need me for this. I need you for this, you need me for this rather than an anxious attachment to, we have to be together all the time. And if we're not, I'm very worried. Um, you know, that's kind of, there's a lot of emotions that happen with codependence, but kind of this interdependence, I see it with a lot of couples that recently have children. So especially with baby, obviously mom has a very different role than dad. It just is biological. She's breastfeeding. Um, and if she's not, then, you know, they can share that with formula or

whatnot. But I do see a lot of women that are exclusively breastfeeding, at least for the first couple months. You don't have a choice that that woman is getting up in the middle of the night and the man doesn't necessarily have to do that. And it's probably good that he's sleeping so that you can take a nap during the day and he can take care of the baby during the day. So it's kind of this back and forth. I see a lot of natural interdependence happening when, um, there's a baby that gets introduced to the family. So, um, that's just a good example that I can kind of give you as what interdependence looks like. It looks different for me and my husband because we don't have any children yet. But we just, we have our roles, you know, he takes out the trash and I really enjoy cooking. So I end up cooking. It's not because the woman

should cook. It's more because I actually love cooking and I love meal prepping. I love making new recipes. It's almost like my creative part of myself. And he really doesn't mind doing the outside stuff. Like he really doesn't mind, you know, cleaning up the garage and like doing that work. Whereas I don't really want to do that. So again, it, it tends to fall differently depending on the couple. Ours just are kind of naturally more like gender roles, but it doesn't have to be that way. You can, you know, choose whatever you feel like, you know, goes with you and what you want to do and add to the household. But there is this back and forth. He's not doing everything

and I'm definitely not doing everything. So we share, we share roles in, in that. And also emotionally, you know, what I bring to the table and what he brings to the table is very different. I would say he's a problem solver and can think quickly of multiple options for us for the day or for whatever is happening. And me, I'm definitely more of like an empath. And if something happens with somebody else, or maybe he needs a different perspective, I'm very much able to give that. So we go to each other for those kinds of things. And it's really helpful. It's even helpful in business and ideas. You know, I'm, I'm trying to plan other retreats. And I was, you know, he was helping me plan that. And it's even

hard for me to take in sometimes I'll have moments of like, well, why are you so negative about it? He's like, I'm not, I'm just going through all the possible options that could happen. And I'm like, okay, yeah, you're right. So that's kind of what I mean by letting go of this like independent woman kind of standpoint that I feel like society is pushing on us. And I feel very independent. I could definitely, you know, if I wasn't married, I would be fine. I have my own business and I have my passion and my career, but I want my partner. I want a family. So I've chosen to be with somebody. And with that comes, you know, I can't just cook pasta for dinner every night, which is what I would eat because he doesn't want to eat that. I have to think of somebody else um as I go through my life and I think there's a beautiful

beautiful way to do that um if you want a partner and if you want that committed relationship yeah I remember being a bit of a nightmare at the beginning I think I don't know why I think I was just like oh this really great person has entered my life but do I want a boyfriend because will I lose all my independence? Like, will I be able to do all the things that I get to do now? And I've said in a previous podcast on my own, I think on a solo episode, nothing changes. Like, you do think that, you know, like, if you have been single for ages and you've really been wanting a relationship and you think everything changes when you meet that person. It actually doesn't.

Your life might improve a little bit. But, like, you carry on with all your day-to-day tasks like my life hasn't changed I'm still independent but then you know I might get a little bit of help in places and you know I get obviously a lot more emotional support than perhaps I was getting just living on my own single totally so yeah that was very interesting I think everyone was like congratulations wow how is it and I was just like oh it's just like I wasn't talking about it much and people were like you don't you're not really talking about him and I was just like oh it's just like I wasn't talking about it much and people were like you don't you're not really talking about him and I was like oh it's just because like there's no dramas there's nothing to talk about we're great yeah it's just really

working yeah yeah totally and when someone fits into your life like that too how wonderful because again you guys are not at the point where you're living together so your lives aren't completely merged so it sounds like you have this healthy balance of like maintaining what you want to do in your life. And he's, he's like an added bonus. It's like, yeah, right. Like you're adding to my life in a positive way. And I think dating should relatively be like that. It was funny. Me and my husband were just talking about it yesterday. It's like, there is an unhealthy level of conflict that can occur in dating. And that's when you should kind of watch out. Like if you guys are flowing really well and having a good time and it's generally positive, great.

If you're fighting every single day, maybe you're not the right people for each other. But it sounds like your relationship, it just fits right into kind of your life. And it didn't change too, too much. And you're able to maintain your autonomy and like who you are as a person. Yeah. Yeah. Which was really important for me. Yeah.

I think I made it hard for him at the beginning, but we got there. Yeah. So just talking about like marriage and how you continually work on a marriage, like what is your advice to continually kind of accept someone? Like I guess at different stages, you're always going to get maybe slightly different versions of people. Like if people do have children and if you do get married, I guess you see you go through different times together, don't you? I guess you see you go through different times together don't you so like I can imagine a wedding can be quite stressful to plan for some people money-wise and just like organizing you go through all these life changes you know at different times so how do you continually work on a marriage when things are changing you know like as you get older there'll be losses in the family as well like

yeah yeah really good point there I would say honestly exactly what you said like maintaining that mindset of like we're always growing I think if people understood that deeply and understood that there are going to be different seasons of life and that that's okay And that your relationship might look different at different points in your life. That can be such a strength. I think that mindset alone is really what I try to put out there, at least with my content. Um, and I, it's, it's funny cause I think to myself like, Oh, is this too simple of a post? And then it, it's like, everybody loves it and it's, it's great. So I, I keep doing it because I think even just that simple notion of like, we have to keep growing,

um, and growing each other. I would say a relationship is going to be the biggest mirror to yourself that you'll ever have your romantic relationship, because you are often your best self with your partner, but you're often your worst self as well. And I think that's very challenging because we have to choose to love our partner at their worst and not just at their best, not just on that wedding day. Beautiful, all dressed up with these amazing flowers. Like I said, I love weddings. raising flowers. Like I said, I love weddings. But it's hard because you do have moments of weakness and you do go through hard times and you do go through loss and you do go through job loss and you do go through all these moving, maybe having to move because of a job and not expecting to or you know things like that it's it's um it can be really hard so choosing choosing to grow with your partner and choosing to to want to move through those moments

is absolutely key I would say that's like foundational yeah so then let's talk about the couple's retreat so you literally just came off one really recently yes I saw the photos it looked really great so what what's kind of the concept and what happens on them and what was the outcome this time yeah so the concept is to have a really connecting weekend in a really fun place so I host them locally where I'm at I do want to branch out a little bit I was talking with the travel company and we're dreaming about like Italy and like, you know, other places. We'll see. We'll see. I'm going to do a couple more local ones just because I know I had a lot of people that wanted to join this last one. But the idea is to connect deeply with your person and have that separation from

home. So you're essentially taking a vacation, but with this added bonus of working with me and working through workshops. So I did five workshops this past time, and they were all about connecting, emotional intimacy, physical intimacy, your hopes and dreams for the future. And I also did a conflict workshop as well, like with communication. And it was really, really fun. It was great. I loved personally, I loved teaching in that environment because I think, you know, with couples therapy, obviously something has happened to get you to this point. And there's maybe a little bit of tension in the room and maybe it's just like even a little embarrassing, like to be there. Um, and I, I see a lot of couples, you know, they'll sit down,

they'll tell me what's wrong and then they'll go and we really love each other. Like I promise. I'm like, I know, I see that you wouldn't, you wouldn't be here if you didn't love each other. So I know that. Um, but what I really wanted to do with these couples retreats is give the opportunity for a couple to learn these skills in a really relaxed environment. So I'm giving the same skills that I teach in couple therapy, and I kind of narrowed it down to kind of the main ones. But I'm teaching it in more of a relaxed and fun environment that just provides more room for growth because, you know, you're going back to your hotel room and maybe you can practice some of that physical intimacy or you're going to have that date night.

Why don't you have those conversations that I kind of prompted today? Um, things like that. So it was really exciting to have my couples, you know, here in my hometown where I'm, where I'm at and, um, you know, give them good recommendations. I know they both, I had two couples, I originally had three, um, and one couldn't make it. So it was two couples, which made it really intimate. So I got a lot of one-on-one time with them. Um, and they both like rode bikes during the day and went on date nights at night. And so I got to hear about what they were doing all weekend. It was so much it was seriously it was like the best I'm like next one next one's in February so oh wow that's really exciting what do you tell them to talk about on their little date nights to connect like what

kind of prompts yeah so I I did give them my um 25 conversations for connection which is um you can find it in the link in my bio if you're on my Instagram. And it's free. So you can just pop your email in there and grab the worksheet. But it's just a lot of more deep and meaningful conversations that just go kind of above the surface, or below the surface. So just a lot of like, tell me your favorite childhood memory um what was your favorite food growing up it's it's these things that we maybe don't think about that kind of connect back to who we are today and what makes us us which can help with conflict

because if we understand where these differences come from we're gonna have empathy for the other person and we're gonna have compassion and we're gonna have from, we're going to have empathy for the other person and we're going to have compassion and we're going to have understanding and we're going to have a deep kind of fondness and adoration for this person, which goes hand in hand with having intimacy, emotional and physical. So just building that fondness and admiration between the couples was really fun. And yeah, I kind of challenged them a little bit here and there and yeah it was great it was really good wow well yeah perfect setting to do it in isn't it um so you just mentioned your conversation guide there but you also have 30 day couples challenge as well yes yeah tell us about that available yeah yeah is, um, it's a 30 day challenge and what it is,

is every day, once you sign up, um, you'll get the day one and it'll kind of go from there. So you'll get day two, you know, the next day and so on and so forth. And it'll be in your email too. So if you don't want to do it in 30 days, you can do it in 60 or 90 or go back to it next year if you really want to. Um. But the 30 day challenge is 30 prompts for 30 days via email that are going to challenge you to connect deeper with your partner. So kind of little tidbits that I've kind of already given kind of these deeper conversations, challenging novelty and your physical intimacy, all of that is going to be included in the challenge. So I kind of made it really well rounded. Um, and I started small, so I like kind of work you guys up to a point of, you know,

getting really connected. Um, and yeah, I've had a lot of positive feedback about it. Couples love it. Um, because I honestly, a lot of couples that follow me, they don't need to see me for couples therapy and not everybody needs therapy. So I really want to create these little things, whether it's the couples retreat or the 30 day challenge to wherever you are in your journey with your partner or however much money that you can spend too. Cause you know, obviously couples retreat versus, you know, buying the 30 day challenge is going to be a vast difference. Um, but I want to create access to connecting well with your partner and connecting deeply with your partner, no matter where you're at. Um, so I also have kind of those free guides as well. I have the,

um, conversations for connection and then the couples, um, connection checklist, which is just a little checklist that you can do and stick it on your fridge and just make sure you guys are, um, you know, doing some of those throughout the week and that can be really helpful too that's super cute and this is I appreciate it can be hard when like we said earlier life gets involved but sometimes it really can be that simple can't it like just connecting like being aware that you are actually you go to work you say goodbye in the morning you might just say goodbye maybe you don't kiss and hug anymore if it's been you know years and years and years of marriage I don't know um and then they you come back and it's just dinner bed and it's just

how's work good watch the telly and then your life just starts doing that and we all get in these loops you know where you go through a stage it's just like groundhog day at times so I guess that is literally the whole moral of this podcast is just taking a moment and making sure that you just connect, like ask deep questions and how has worked today and that kind of thing. And I guess, yeah, I think that's really good advice because people forget to do it. Yeah. And spending that quality time. And again, it doesn't need to be this crazy romantic date. It can be at home. Me and my husband, we love to play cards.

So sometimes we'll just turn the TV off. We'll play cards. We'll play a game. We love playing games, things like that too. It's just, we end up laughing and we end up like giggling and we'll have a glass of wine. And it's just like, it's just different than us going on our phones and, you know, maybe showing each other a few things here and there, which we also do. But yeah, just connecting, just like finding, finding those moments in your day and setting aside time in your week. Definitely. I would

say weekly is very important. Well, thank you so much for joining us. I think that was a really great episode. Thank you for all the work that you do, because obviously you're helping more and more couples connect, which is so important. So so um mckinsey rummel you can follow at beachy.therapist and that's where you can find all the guides as well yes yeah the link in my bio will have everything and if anybody's interested in couples retreats or want to join my email list it's all in the link in my bio thank you so much for your time thank you so much for having me i had a great time