Daisie Dates - EP10 LOVE AND LONDON ft Jess Dante

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

The final episode of the first season!! In today's episode, we're talking all things romance, summer flings, travel and love. First though, drop the podcast a like, subscribe or send to a friend - a share goes a long way! Jess Dante, Founder of Love and London joined us in the studio to talk about her learnings of getting married in her very early twenties, moving Countries for love and the response she receives when she talks about not wanting children as a woman. Jess gives an amazing life tip that everyone should truly consider - the FUC* YOU FUND! Lock in and enjoy. Would you move for love? How far are you willing to go? Follow Jess Dante and @loveandlondon on all platforms. You can join the supportive women-only Facebook group, where the girls chat about everything, hype each other up, and offer fantastic advice. Join DaisieDates on Facebook for a fantastic community! Everyone is welcome on all of the other platforms at @DaisieDatesPodcast, so don't miss out on the fun! The podcast is available on all streaming platforms, so listen anywhere and everywhere! Oh, and spread the word! A share goes a long way! Daisie xo

Hello, welcome to the Daisy Dates podcast where we talk all things love, dating and heartbreak. I'm Daisy. And I'm Sian. And today's episode is a very special one. We are joined by Jess Dante in the studio, fabulous fabulous name founder of Love in London a digital brand that helps London tourists basically visit as if they live there to avoid all of the overhyped and overdone stuff so Jess talks all things traveling entrepreneurship but is also really open about her date and journey online as well so a massive welcome thanks for having me yeah and you've traveled from London as well which we love. It's kind of a big deal for me to leave London but I couldn't say no to this opportunity so.

It always is for a Londoner it's like that you don't you don't leave everyone has to come to you. Yeah I really in Birmingham we're trying to leave at any possible opportunity. The opposite. So Jess and I actually met through TikTok didn't we kind of through following each other which is so nice that social media kind of is like that now I mean maybe one day we'll meet a partner that way yeah no it is it's lovely though isn't it because I remember going on TikTok at the end of 2021 and my algorithm was starting to show me more dating content and I was I had I had not had a great time with dating in London it was the first I think like seven months that I had been out of any like big relationship and I was like god I just feel like this is not

fun and I was finding videos like yours Daisy and all these other ones and I was like oh I'm not alone like there's a lot of people going through exactly the same thing that I am. A lot of women who are dealing with the same stuff. And that was why I was inspired to start making my own content, which I don't really do as much anymore, but it was really fun. And it honestly brings everybody together. It's really nice, I think. Yeah. Yeah, it does. It really brings everyone together. As long as you're like content online is relatable, then it really does draw in a really nice audience, doesn't it? So you've got a little this or that game for people to get to know you a little bit better if they don't know Jess behind Love in London. So in terms of dating, and some of these are quite hard because I'm sure you want to do all of them, but you've got to pick one. All right. So beach or mountains? Beach always. Oh, quick. Hiking or a meal out a meal out love it when going

abroad bumble or hinge hinge definitely oh you're straight on it aren't you summer fling or a cozy one at christmas time oh gosh uh summer fling yes 100 it's coming girls it's coming sun and sea or an adventurous city break oh that's hard because I really like both of them but because we've had such bad weather here recently sun and sea and wine or beer wine and because you're American tacos or burritos uh oh oh tacos okay fritos. Oh, tacos. Okay, love it. We got to know you a little bit better. So we're going to go back to the beginning a little bit, where traveling all started for you. Was it always quite a big part of your life? Did you grow up traveling? No, actually, I didn't. My family and I did some small trips, but we didn't really do that much. I had only, I think by the time I was 15, I'd been on a plane maybe a handful of times, but nothing crazy. And then I kind of caught the bug

a little bit when I would start to travel with my dance team. And then my grandmother, she was actually born in the South of Italy. So yeah, she had always been her dream to take the family to pay for all of us and take the family and do this big trip around Italy because most of us had never been. So when I was just graduating high school, so I was 17. We did this 11 day trip all around the country. And it was then that I was like, Oh, OK, right. Cool. I like this. And my whole family says I get my travel bug from my grandmother because she retired and she just lived the dream. She had been divorced for a while at that point and she just did whatever she wanted, which I still like admire to this day. So, yeah, I definitely caught the bug from her. And ever

since then, I just basically have loved going wherever I could and living in other places and that's how I ended up in London kind of yeah love it I love Italy yeah well I went for the first time in November and I went to Lake Como and Milan and literally I was just like I love Italy it's like one of my favorite places I might book a solo trip in a couple of months to maybe Rome yeah nice and I did one of the coasts along Italy you know like Sorrento and all of that travel the coast with a really good friend it was probably something that you should have done with a partner but you've got to do these things haven't you yeah exactly yeah I went to Rome last year with a girlfriend which is really fun I go back to

Florence a lot because I lived there after I graduated university and I go on my own there. And it's actually such a good city to go by yourself and just do whatever you want. So I definitely recommend solo and girlfriend travel in Italy. It's like the best. Travelling this much across the globe, you've obviously got juicy stories and we want them. Of course. Is there something that really sticks out when you think about like dating abroad? Well, so it's quite interesting. I think there are cultural things that can be quite different when you meet, you know, I only date men. So I'm meeting men in different cities around the world, both when I was younger and now when I'm in my new like single time in the last couple of years. And it's funny though, because some things are, can be quite different, but a lot of stuff is exactly the same. So I hop on hinge basically anytime I'm going

somewhere by myself. And I'm like, even if the prompts have been answered in a different language, I can tell that it's like this one definitely says pineapple on pizza in French. And this one is like, it's just the same stuff as we see here. I see. Nothing changes. Nothing's different. We'd go to France and it'd just be a French boy holding a fish and dancing. For God's sake

exactly that is exactly what it is though same shit different day exactly just with a sexier accent yeah exactly oh my god so it can be different there can be cultural differences but also it's just all the same shit so now you actually did meet someone though when you were dating that you went on to marry yeah so where were you in England when you met that person no so um in 2012 so this is after I graduated university I moved to Florence and I spent a year there and I kind of just was running around I was kind of working but not really working and just having a great time living the dream. And I at the end of my time there, I kind of got to this point where I was like, you know what? I've had enough time of men and I just think I need to focus on myself for a bit.

I was thinking about moving back to the US and what I wanted to do. to focus on myself for a bit. I was thinking about moving back to the U.S. and what I wanted to do. And at the end of that time, I actually had a friend from high school who was living in Prague and we had reconnected on Facebook. So again, this was a long time ago. And long story short, he invited me up to Prague one weekend because there was a Swedish House Mafia concert that was going on because it was their last tour that they were doing and I was like yeah cool perfect booked the flight and um he had a couple friends from London he said that we're coming and long story short that was my um now ex-husband and my ex-sister-in-law so that's but that's how we met was this weekend in Prague which was the most insane fun weekend Prague is so fun isn't it oh so fun I actually haven't been back since then

which is crazy it's really fun for everything for the culture for the party everything yeah it's such a cool city um so yeah so that's how we met and then we had this whirlwind romance where um he I was moving back to New York and he came to New York a couple of times and then we were like okay well let's like try to make this work and um I tried to so I'm giving you the very short version of this because it could go on honestly for a long time but um a few months after we had met I started getting my working on getting my Italian citizenship so I could move to here of course obviously pre-Brexit and um while that was happening I came I flew over here because Americans are allowed to be in the UK for six months on a tourist visa so I was like okay let me come on the tourist visa

obviously it can't work or anything but that's fine and then towards the end of that is when I should have my passport ready to go and then I can come back and be fine be Italian um but I be Italian um so yeah so I I get to I take the flight over get into Heathrow this is before the e-gates were a thing and um I get up to this immigration officer and um she was like okay she starts asking me questions and what are you doing here and I was like well I'm coming to meet my boyfriend and staying for a few months and leaving when I need to leave and blah blah blah I knew all these questions were gonna come but she like straight away was like go sit over there oh no I was like um okay is everything okay and she

was like just go sit down so go sit in this little pen they can be so scary can't they so scary yeah yeah yeah yeah it's horrific yeah um so yeah so I eventually was brought into um this room it was like a holding room which they actually show it on border control that show I watched it once and I was like I was literally in that room and I remember those the toilet doors don't go all the way to the bottom so like everyone can hear you peeing it's really weird um they took all my stuff away couldn't have anything on me I had to buy phone cards to call on a pay phone to tell my ex like he had no idea what was happening my parents didn't know what was happening everyone was like why haven't I heard from you and I was like I'm being detained and questioned. So in and out for nine hours, I was questioned by border control.

And ultimately, they decided I was not going to be allowed to go into the United Kingdom, and I would be banned from coming back. So yeah, so obviously, I was devastated. And my ex got his someone to bring up his passport, and he bought a ticket on the flight that they were putting me on. I got escorted through Heathrow with three security guards. No. How old are you at this point? 23. Oh, no.

Yeah. Yeah. And I have to sit in this special area for the flight away from everyone else. And then I was escorted onto the plane before everyone else and my passport was given to the pilot so I couldn't get it back until we got back to New York. We're just jaw dropping all over the place here. Yeah I wonder if this would be allowed to happen now as well. There's like no empathy for the poor 23 year old girl from America. Yeah it was it was, I won't go into the details of why that happened.

And it was fair enough, but it also was crazy. So yeah. So my ex and I fly to New York and just try to figure out what we're going to do. And my ex father-in-law just called a bunch of immigration lawyers and was like, basically the only option they have to override that ban from her coming here is for them to get married so uh we were like okay that's what we're gonna do then yeah um so a couple months or a month later we got married in New York City very small wedding on a Wednesday and I then I had to wait for my pass for my visa to be approved so that took about a month and a half and then I

moved over here so yeah we got married six months after we met each other okay yeah I have a question that might be different now in hindsight but at the time did it feel different I understand under circumstances which I didn't know before talking right now that obviously it was for certain reasons but did you know that you wanted to marry him I'm asking if there's a feeling that you get for me it was I think the difference was that maybe if you're in the same country it might feel different but I remember thinking like for both of us it was very incredibly painful for us to be so far away and when we did get to meet up it was just we had such a great time and it just felt very full and then as soon as I had to drop him off at the airport it was so it was heartbreaking um I don't know I don't expect that to ever happen again I think that was just such weird circumstances and it's

probably not realistic for other people to be looking for something like that I don't know it was just and we were so young so I think things are so different now 10 years on I would never expect that kind of feeling for another partner that I'd meet but I don't know because I think it's meeting someone abroad I really do it kind of you know how people go in Love Island and they say it feels like one day is a week I think that's what it feels like you know how people go in Love Island and they say it feels like one days a week I think that's what it feels like abroad yeah I met somebody in Greece and it felt like I'd been with him for a year and it'd been like three weeks it's the magic I think yeah and he was from London not from Birmingham and obviously it wasn't as long distance as yours but

we were like yeah this is so gonna work like no it's not you don't even like you were just in a whirlwind so I think it could happen again yeah but only really if it's not you don't even like you were just in a whirlwind so I think it could happen again yeah but only really if it's in a circumstance where it's like yeah accelerated a thing yeah and how long were you married for we were married we separated when we were at the five and a half year mark I believe so and then when we officially divorced I think it was about six years we had been together so it still was a pretty solid relationship yeah it was it was and we definitely you know we married we thought we would eventually marry but we just did it very early because we had to so um it wasn't it wasn't like oh we're just doing this so Jess can get over here and then like we're gonna do our own thing we

definitely felt that we were gonna be together together forever. And, but of course things change, but, um, yeah, so it was, yeah, it was a long, it was a long marriage for people who got married in their twenties. Yeah, absolutely. And you moved countries for this. So what were kind of expectations at the time from like family members? Were there whispers of just no, you're too young? Um, interestingly, my family are very like rational but they were 100 behind this there was like basically no questions they had met my ex and they thought he was great and um they were just like we'll support you and whatever that you want to do and what you guys need to do and they were I think they're very behind the love story as well and I think everyone is really behind the love story and just thinking um the people who had been involved in it were like this is just amazing

and uh yeah so I didn't not no one said anything to my face about not doing that which is so funny because if I heard a similar story now and a friend was gonna be doing something I'd be like um what or sometimes people tell me stories of like we got engaged after a year and I'm like that's so soon I'm like oh wait I cannot I really cannot judge anyone yeah I like to think that there's no timelines to anything so I think that's a nice way to look at it and also it sounds like you don't look back at regret which is the best thing to look back at a relationship that has ended and not need to look at it with regret I think that's really lovely um going through divorce that young though so that's before you're 30 yeah so 29 I and I turned 30 when we were in separated wow okay how did you at that time that young have the tools to deal with

a divorce if there are any did traveling get you through it so I don't know if I had what tools that I have it was really honestly it was a very very difficult year um and so I had the support of obviously my family um who were over in the US and then I had a group of friends who and a few people especially that were like doing as much as they could to support me. But sometimes like, especially in the beginning of something like that, there's just not much that people can do. So they were trying. Um, and I was going to, in the beginning, I was going to therapy like twice a week at that point, already had an existing therapist. And, um, so I was just constant, I was going to her a lot and then kind of went to like one, one a week and then every other week.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it was tough. Like I was really thankful for the friends that were in London that could help me and that were trying to just like invite me to things that they were doing or just trying to keep me entertained and would come with me to. You know, I had I moved out of my flat with my that my ex and I had together and I had to move into a house share with strangers. And that was so like, in the beginning, that was just so hard. Cause I'd never done that before. And I'd lived with someone, my partner for six years in my dream flat. So, um, I had friends that like came with me to the viewings and helped me move and, um, you know, came to check on me. And I'm so grateful to those people because if I didn't have that, especially not having my family here, I don't know how I would have gotten through it really.

Gosh. Yeah. Cause they're not even around. Um, just going back on the house share, did you love it in the end? Cause my best times are living with, within house shares in, I've lived in London Leeds and Manchester so it's the best um it was so it was a transition the first one was with two guys and they were really nice and they one of them wasn't around very much and he was the landlord so that kind of was nice and then one of them had a dog and him and I actually got on quite well um but I was just really like missed having my own space and having my standards of cleanliness. That was really a struggle for me.

So I moved out of that one after six months. And then one of my best friends, her and I paired up. And then we moved into a house with two other women who we had met through like mutual friends, which was also quite interesting. And also we did that just before COVID. So like the whole lockdown stuff, everyone was going through very different situations with that. So it was a lot of like personalities happening. And I ended up not even actually living in the house. I was staying with the guy I was dating at the time outside of London. And then that was the last house share that I did. And, and, um, I had a little, I did have some fun with it.

And I think it was good that I wasn't living on my own during all these like really tough times, but, uh, I live on my own now and I don't think I could go back. I've done a house share before and I hated every second of it. Gosh, I've met some of my best friends through living with them and they were strangers to begin with. No, not, it wasn't for me but um in your relationship because you said your friends helped you and obviously keeping busy but did you have a lot of friends that were mutual between both of you yeah I did um yeah so that was a really

difficult thing um because obviously I moved to a foreign country and I my first group of people to want to become friends with was my ex's friends. And I did become very, very close with like the majority of them. And a couple of them became like some of my closest friends. And so for the first like few months of the separation, everything was fine. And everyone was like still trying to be as supportive as possible. And then at one point basically without going I don't really want to go too much into the detail of what happened but he

basically they just all cut me off um and yeah so it was like that was really difficult for me at the time because it felt very unfair it was from something that he had told them and no one like these people had been my closest them and no one like these people had been my closest friends and no one even bothered to reach out and be like what's your side of it or anything like that and you're in this country alone um at least we you know it's the same language that helps but I mean when you've got no one around you and you're having to reach out and potentially make new friends now that's really hard yeah and I've seen that happen before and it's almost like the goalpost moves when you're healing it's like right in six months I'll be okay and then something happens

because you've got the same group of friends and ultimately something they can't keep being close with both of you it's never gonna work and it's like the goalpost has moved a lot okay I'm going through this now and it that makes it hard but again you come over from America so yeah that's the easiest way to make friends yeah exactly yeah it was was there a moment where you were like I'm going back to America yeah I thought about it like obviously I was as I was going through this whole process I kind of was trying to figure out what are my next moves um and I didn't really want to go back because I'd lived most of my adult life in London and I had that group of friends who eventually I didn't speak to anymore.

But I also did have a really amazing group that were separate from my ex, who I had become really close with during that whole process. So I just, yeah, I kind of thought about it. But then eventually, and also my business is so tied up in London. So I would really be starting over yet again. So I just didn't really have any interest in doing that. And I was lucky that the visa I was on at the time I was allowed to stay, even though we got divorced. So yeah, it was, I got very lucky. And I think, you know, losing that group was very painful for me because that happened just before lockdown started as well. So then I was living with my

then boyfriend, but it was just so much time where like so much time to think, right? I think a lot of us had, we were dealing with that. So I was trying to process all this and then also dealing with my business completely, basically vanishing because no one was traveling to London. And it was just way too much time to think. But then once I processed all of it, I actually realized that it was for the best. And I came out on the other side. I have friends that I have much better connections with and that I have a lot more in common with and that live nearby and have similar aspirations that I do and like that really like pumped me up instead of bringing me down and things like that so it's actually was kind of a blessing that that happened because I wouldn't be in the position

I am and have such amazing friends around me now. But I love your story for that and how you can look back and be like everything does happen for a reason and what I love about story for that and how you can look back and be like, everything does happen for a reason. And what I love about you, Jess, is that you've made London yours now. So it isn't anyone else's. It's like, you know, you can put that behind you, hopefully. That's a passing that happened. It was great whilst it lasted. It's done and dusted now, but London is now yours with your amazing business and with your now, like, can-do attitude.

I think that's great about the story. It's easy for people to be like obviously you're gonna move back to America but it's like home isn't where you were born home is where your friends are home is where you feel like you're at home and for some people it isn't where they're born and so it's easy to be like yeah just move back look no obviously not I've made my own life here so home can be be where you make it. Yeah. I'm glad that you stayed. Yeah, me too. I am too. What was your biggest learning or a few learnings probably that come from a divorce? Yeah. So I think, uh, God, there was a lot, but, um, for me, I think trying to, I always thought I was quite independent when I was in that marriage, but actually and it's not a shame to people who really tie themselves into their marriage and with their partner.

But now I know in a partnership, I don't want to have things like quite as entangled. I, you know, I make my own money like I have my own money. I live on my own. I do my own thing. I run my own business. I don't really need to have a partner where we're like combining everything um I also want to always make sure I have um have you guys ever heard of a fuck you fund oh I love it is this where you're like I want to go Australia fuck you I'm going but maybe not as expensive as the rainy day one? Yeah, maybe.

So I think there's a few versions of it. But I think I've heard a lot of women talk about when you are in a partnership and when you get married that you have some kind of savings pot that's just only you have access to. I'd love to tell my future boyfriends about this. Yeah, yeah. Well, well and to fund the divorce party yeah yeah and but also I think people you know um ultimately we had lawyers that we had to get and um I didn't realize like that was going to be a thing so I didn't really have the money to pay for a lawyer so we had to like come to this agreement and um but also that got very like dicey so I would say that women need to have I mean both partners should have it like have your own savings

so that if you need to hire somebody and divorce lawyers are very expensive but have the money where if you need to get out of a situation even if it's not divorce even if it's you're living with somebody but if you need to get out then you have that money and you have that cushion and you can do that otherwise you're going to be stuck in something that and I know not everyone has the means to have this pot aside but um having that cushion means you can make decisions for yourself and you don't have to worry about well I can't leave this because I don't where what am I going to do I don't have the money and I can't do this on my own. Gosh, I think that's actually such wise, sound advice. What a tip. Yeah, you never want to go into anything thinking this could end, but actually in this day and age,

that's really wise. And even like you said, even if you're living with someone, maybe it might be abusive. It's a means that can get you away if ever you need to. Obviously you were so young and it's only been a few more years but do you think that you would have coped differently now because of age but also I think there's just more online like more advice that you can get and more people available like more therapists and that kind of thing yeah I I definitely think so so um I actually don't think I mentioned the reason why my ex and I split up uh so it was the the reason was that we couldn't agree on having children so oh yeah I'm getting goosebumps I'm dropping all of those um yeah I guess the 23

that's not something you think to discuss and suddenly you're 28 and you're needing to discuss it no so and we we discussed it in the way that 23 year old's going through trying to get someone in to to even just live in the foreign the same country as you discussed it and over time we hadn't we mentioned it and kind of talked about it and it was always kind of we think we probably will this is how I remember at least I don't know if this is how he remembers it but um I think you know we'll we will discussions about, um, would we raise them in London? And I was like, yes. And he was like, no.

And I was like, oh, okay. Um, but we never had like really concrete, um, discussions. And so basically we had a few months where I was like, I actually feel like I really don't want to have them. And he was like, oh, I feel like I maybe do, but let me do some exploring. And ultimately he said that he didn't want to give that up. So that's why we split up and uh so I was dealing with like the divorce thing which I couldn't really find that much

information online about anyone our age going through divorce for support but I also um was dealing with the child free thing so and at no point in time even through this entire painful process did I ever waver on that decision for me and I feel that stronger than ever that I don't want children yeah um but I also kind of was feeling like because my most of my friend group did want to have that I didn't really have that many friends that felt similarly that I could talk to about it so even back then there wasn't that much content about women who are choosing to be child free. But now these days, there's a lot more. And there's a lot more resources. There's TikTok accounts with couples that are child free. And they talk about like,

sticking together in a group, because obviously, especially for women, if you don't want to have children, it's a um people get very heated about that sometimes which is very interesting um and also assume that um i just also even though i don't know if i want to have children so i don't know why i thought this but i assume that you wanted to have kids and he didn't and i'm i'm exactly the same that's what i thought and then yeah and i'm like i don't know if i'll ever have them so i don't know why i thought that when i think it's just an assumption but it's just yeah yeah yeah girl oh no it's I mean it's I think pretty common to be like that and just what we've grown up with I think too and um yeah so it's

really nice that there's podcasts that pop up that's like about child free life and um again tiktok accounts for people who are going through divorce, and there's just so much more support out there. And it's also why I like to, I don't mind coming on to a podcast and talking about going through divorce and like being child free and stuff, because it's just if it can help like a couple of people be feel like more comfortable in their decision, or just a little bit like less um alien and um you know I think that's amazing for I love to be able to do that how long did it take till you were able to fully healthily start dating again so I started dating somebody um eight months into our separation

so um I ended up I was with that guy for about a year and a half and the majority of that was COVID. Um, so, but then when him and I broke up, it was about a little more than two years ago. That's when that was really like my first official time that I've ever been truly single. Cause I've always been a relationship person even before I got married at 23. Um, so I kind of started trying to date, to date soon after him and I broke up. And I don't know if I would say that was healthily dating because I basically was kind of learning how to date as people do in their early 20s. So there was a lot of stuff and especially with stuff with the apps. And then also I was dating men generally in their early thirties, which is, can be good, but also it's, that's a whole different challenge. And, um, so it's been very interesting. I would say that

only at the beginning of 2022 is when I was like, you know what, I feel more confident in what I'm looking for in somebody. I'm also more confident in being single. So I can just kind of brush people to the side if it's not working. So do you find it hard to date as like an entrepreneurial woman as well? And obviously your business is online. So that can be intimidating. I know that from for a lot of men as well for some men. Yeah, I do I think I find I find dating hard

in general because the second that they know my last name they can find so much information about me um which I put it out there at the end of the day but some people can be very weird about that and then some are like that's really cool so it kind of depends um and I don't really love going on the apps like I don't I never put my last name I never I don't really put what I do on it because I've had people who are like oh I just found your TikTok you just like slated every every guy in London and I'm like sorry you think we're gonna go out now this is um and I don't really I don't want people to have like that I don't google men before I go on dates with them I don't know I don't want people to have like that. I don't Google men before I go on dates with them.

I don't know. I don't want people to do. I don't know why. I've never thought to do it. No. I just, why do they sit there? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Like, I want to give you guys a chance. I'm going to get the ick the second that I find something about you. Exactly. Probably. So, yeah, it is, that is difficult. Because also, I'm not on the apps. I just dramatically re-deleted it about three days ago. Me too, three days ago.

I was like, I can't. I'm taking my lashes off. I'm taking my hair extensions out. I'm deleting the apps. I'm going rural. It was the full moon. The full moon goes. And when's your birthday?

It's in August. Oh, I thought we were going to be both Aquarius. Oh, no, I'm a Leo. I'm a hardcore Leo. Yeah, and I just, I did it like two hours after I got back from Paris. And the friend that I went to Paris with, bless her, I had been like, I need some new Hinge pictures. She did all these amazing shoots, took all these amazing pictures.

And then I just deleted it like two hours after we got back. I was like, sorry. She's like, such a love-hate relationship, isn't it? Oh, yeah, yeah. Do you feel like you date differently now do you make different choices generally so I don't actually go on that many dates anymore because um because of work uh and I don't I'm trying to stay off the apps because I don't find that they are helpful to anything to anything physically mentally yeah exactly yeah

yeah no no it's not good um I do use them when I travel but we can talk about that later uh but I also because I know what I want um I know I don't want to have children I know I want to stay in London I know what I'm looking for in a partner I know what kind of lifestyle I want to have in the future it just narrows the pool down which is fine it's I'm okay with that I would rather that than um not I guess but it just means that there are very few people that I end up going on a date with yeah having children is a real deal breaker on each side and mine's I've always found it hard because I'd be very happy to never have them but I don't I'm not opposed to them enough that if I met somebody and they fell in

love and it was a big thing for them that I wouldn't consider it but how do you approach that in dating world to be like if I don't have that because that puts boys off if you say I'm not they want women to be mothers and for women to be like I don't care if I have a child or not they're like and I find that really hard and it's definitely a new attitude as you've mentioned this wasn't happening years ago so that's why people are still learning you know to approach that um because I've even had a moment where I've seen how hard it is you know through my sister how it has affected relationships as well having kids that are stressful and hard um and you think everyday relationships are hard but try having a kid that's keeping you up all night and then you're just

hating on each other do you know i mean and but i think i know deep down i really do want them but there was a moment and that's hard isn't it to navigate yeah daisy was like i'd just take off because i said do you still deciding about kids or don't want kids or something? And Daisy was like, take that off. Just don't put anything for now. I was like... On her apps. Yeah, I was like, if you still decide,

just take it off if you're not sure. Because it's better than like putting a waffley decision. It's like this new short term, long term thing. Short term, but long term's okay. What?

I was like, who? You're right, I understand people looking for something casual. I don't understand people looking for a short-term relationship long term's okay i don't get that and the fact that there's both then there's the reverse of that i'm like they're they're the same thing long term but short term's okay yeah why would you want to go into a relationship knowing it's going to end at some point what is the point what is the point i i just don't i it frustrates the

hell out of me i but i appreciate when people do put either like something casual yeah um yeah or life partner or long-term relationship because they're like okay cool you can be decisive on this um but then also figuring out my dating goals i'm like you you've got two options you either want long term you want something and they're like 34 and i'm like come on think quick exactly like get your shit together honestly oh my god and the pool just gets smaller and smaller at 28 i never thought i'd be saying to my mom like i'm left on the shelf mom yeah well back in the day my um friend's mom got her marriage certificate out and she got married at 26 that might be wrong but something like that and it said that she was a spinster before that

so she was spinster at 26 well i'm on the shelf in a night for her yeah same no just waiting for someone fabulous and you know what we kind of spoke about it off the podcast a little bit myself and jess and we talk about it all the time sean that it is it is getting generally harder for men to kind of reach where women are heading because women are changing we do own businesses now we are running more now and we need everyone to catch up with us not you know we need is in like we need a man to be okay with us any more than them slash being entrepreneurial if they're not that's okay we're allowed to have that now but we're waiting for everyone to kind of catch up yeah I would agree and I personally am very attracted to

somebody who is either entrepreneurial or um ambitious with their job or passionate about something and so it's hard to again that like narrows the pool down and just gets just a puddle at this point really even living in London I'm like where is everyone but one rain drop yeah and we've all gotta try and find it you'd think that everyone like most people generally in London if they've moved there they've moved their works are ambitious but it's still so hard because I'm in a smaller town now and I often think maybe if I moved back to London it would be easier but it sounds like it wouldn't be any easier no I think I mean you can I think you can still I still meet men who are ambitious and doing well at work and doing well with you know whatever they're doing in life. But I think also I really like somebody who puts effort in.

Love art. Literally it's here. Yeah, it's like in hell. It's so low. Floor level. Yeah. So even finding that can be so, like, especially on the apps, every time I go on a little bit, it just kind of reminds me that it's I don't like I don't like to do pen pal, like within the first few hours, like, say work, like, when are you free, I'm going to take you on a date and I want it like them to plan it I want them to make the reservation and it's I struggle to find I haven't come across that many guys that are 100% in London. I'm with you there yeah. I think it's because there's a misconception that modern women

business owner women who are busy don't suddenly like any traditional gender values that we've grew up with we're not saying we don't want men to be gentlemen and be taken out and wind and done just because we have a business it's like we've put been put in the box that we're like we're modern women we don't need no men we don't need we're still like traditional gender roles we just yeah we've just got businesses in the busy that i think that's where it's all misconstrued and muddled and entangled and people aren't getting it because someone commented on my tiktok like come on i tiktoked about i just need a guy to have more ask me on the next day sort it plan it and a person but i thought you're more independent than that or you know i tiktoked about a girl who had

a guy like sit on a train with her and wait till it literally took off and then he got off and waved her at the platform and he said like isn't that being treated like a child do you want that you're more independent i was like i'm independent but that's why it's an extra treat when someone treats you like that I was in awe at how this guy was treating a girl and I was I shouldn't be in awe that should just be normal yeah well also I have friends who do stuff like that so if yeah and it's not going to do that for me then what what is the point of this? I don't, yeah, it's very interesting. The, I don't know if you want to start talking about like the dating abroad yet, but. Yes.

Let's get the cheese. Let's get the cheese. Yeah. Right. So I started traveling on my own a bit more last year and I was like, you know what? I don't know anyone or I need like stuff. I need a few nights locked out. So let me just hop on hinge and like move the pin around and see what happens.

And yeah, so I've had like I've gone on dates in almost I think every city that I've gone to on my own over the last like six or eight months. And I've had like kind of a mixed bag, but mostly good experiences. And it's really fun because it's low pressure and cause you're leaving. So they, they know it's low pressure, you know, it's low pressure. Uh, and yeah. And it's quite interesting because I often, so I've gone to New York a couple of times, three times in the last few months and have met up with, um, guys in New one of them was not from Hinge but um the men in New York and Americans in general

are what we were just talking about they're so much more direct they will plan the date they will text you straight away and be like okay meet me at this place at seven o'clock then we're gonna go to this place I've made reservations and we're gonna do this we're gonna do that I would love that yeah oh and they pay for it all which is so nice um yeah it's like so it's really fun it's low pressure no expectations and then but you get to like meet someone who's doing interest something interesting and you get to be wined and dined and um you don't have to spend the evening on your own which is always great too so yeah I really like anyone who's traveling solo obviously like take your precautions of be safe I always send pictures of like the profile to any friend that's nearby or anyone back like in

the UK or something be like if I disappear here's what his profile looks like here's his I don't usually exchange numbers but here's like his information blah blah blah here's where we're meeting but besides that it's like really fun to do but are you not scared that the whole of your history repeat again you'll meet somebody again and it'll be whirlwind and they'll be in new york and you'll be in london and it will all start over again you're scared a little bit because the new york men are like so charming so i have got yeah they're and like charming wealthy successful i'm picturing my perfect man right now yeah it's yeah it's in America yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly um so yes a little bit and like there's been a couple times

I was like oh my god if we if you were in London like I would for sure want to date you but then they are also very quick to cut things off and just like never speak to you again and like make it very clear that this was is what it is and like I'm moving on to the next thing so um I'm I'm definitely open to I would be open to meeting somebody in a different city but I'm I can't see that really happening so it's I don't know well this is what we call hookup culture then so are you an advocate for it? I think it's whatever works for the people so for me you know I it has a time and place for me but um when I'm in London I that's not for me because I'm when I'm in London I'm in like find a relationship mode so I don't really ever engage in that um but when I'm just like having fun abroad then without saying too much

you know the gates are well the gates are open oh my god I just said way too much that's gonna be a clip that will follow me around the internet for the rest of my life um I'm open-minded we shall like yes oh yeah I did some abroad I did all sorts I opened the get no yeah no oh yeah no um but I think just whatever works for anyone yeah I think as long as you don't feel because not every boy or girl can feel good after yeah yeah a one night stand or a summer fling and if you're one of those people then don't continue to keep doing it if you feel bad afterwards but for a lot of us it feels great afterwards yeah oh yeah well yeah stories nothing better I've had some great times with summer flings in Greece or from England though I've had you know I met someone in Ibiza that did turn into

a boyfriend albeit he was horrible in the end um but, I think it's nice to enjoy the time with someone. By the time this episode airs, I will have been in Bali with 100 strangers. So right now, as I'm speaking, very excited to see what that could bring, because obviously there's a chance that within 100 strangers, there could be someone perfect for me.

That's not where I'm going. But there could be amongst the friendships that I'm very excited about, which actually seems to be something that's coming up a lot in this episode. And I think that's because all three of us can confidently say that we are happy single. And I think it's the friendships that hold that value and are so, so important. Yeah, I agree. And I think also we're hustling and getting our own validation from our work.

And as you said, friendships and other things and hobbies and stuff and I think that was for me to get to a point where I was happy single I just really had to like dive into my own life and and do my own thing and build up really strong friendships I love doing the gym like I have a really strong gym routine that's like really fun for me that's that's a hobby for me and work I'm getting so much fulfillment from work and I'm happy to like work well into the evenings when I don't have anything to do and um it's hard it can be hard though to get to that point where you're happy and it's not it's not like for me it's not a constant state too like it varies it depends on what's going on in my life

but um right now I'm like I'm so happy to be single also we're supposedly getting into summer which is like the best time to be single yeah I think you can tell when you delete the apps you're just on a bit like I'm just ready just let me be single for a little bit I'm deleting the apps you didn't understand why I deleted the apps but now you're in that mode as well but mine isn't because I'm exhausted from the dating apps mine's like I feel like I'm not in the right headspace at the minute it's not that I'm not enjoying dating I just think I'm exhausted from the dating apps. Mine's like, I feel like I'm not in the right headspace at the minute. It's not that I'm not enjoying dating.

I just think I'm in a bit of a weird headspace to be dating someone. So I don't want to inflict that on anyone else. Well, that's good. And that's healthy. But you're right. It does ebb and flow. Because the other day, you know,

I was carrying like 10 really heavy bags. I got some bad news and then really good news. And I was having a rollercoaster day. And I was like, you know what? When will it be my turn to just be able to unload this to a partner at home instead of going, you know, I could have called my turn to just be able to unload this to a partner at home instead of going you know I could have called a friend but I just wanted to go to my home that night have dinner in my house when is it gonna be my turn for a guy to help me with the

bags do you know I mean I have friends that have never had to you know just do so much themselves they've got boyfriends that are sorting their visa out for their travel and just all of those things it's just nice to have someone to alleviate from, you know? Yeah, well, it's a partnership. Exactly, that's it, a partnership and sharing a lot of just life responsibilities that when you're doing it on your own can feel just very tiring. You're like, I'm doing all the laundry myself. I'm handling the bills myself.

I'm making my own travels and having to carry my own suitcases like you said and um sometimes it's just nice to have somebody else to help with that or to or on Sunday evenings like I'm fine with doing my own thing Sunday evenings I like to actually just chill but also occasionally I'm like it would be nice to have a cuddle with somebody while I'm watching this film and exactly someone to chill with and also I find as you get older and your friends get into relationships and they're more serious and also just as you grow up you don't spend as much time with your friends as you once did that's when you start to think oh now that's one other friend friend that I can't talk to as much as I used to and that's another friend and that's another friend and you just start to feel

a little bit isolated and just wish you had your person that was just for you that you could speak to and I think that's it's also great when you get older because I feel like your friendships are more meaningful. Yeah. But it can also feel more lonely because they're going off. Yeah, it's a weird catch-22 almost, isn't it? Yeah. So we always have a finale question on the podcast and I think you're relatively positive anyway, actually.

But obviously you have been through a divorce very young and you could have literally been like, oh my God, hate men, hate this, this hate London I'm here on my own you could have made a really bad situation of it but you flipped it and you made it a completely different thing for you as we mentioned earlier so how do you keep a positive mindset when dating now like obviously without always thinking oh is there any point in getting married again because it would send in doom like how do you stay positive so I just keep my life moving basically um I do a lot of planning for my life so I can see that there's really really amazing things that can happen no matter if I meet someone in the short term or not or in the longer term um I think I also the interesting thing about being divorced is I was in I was in a marriage

and I was like I wasn't I wasn't thinking this because I was unhappy or anything or I wanted to get out of it but I was kind of just watching my other friends still dating and thinking I'll never do that again that's so crazy and like I kind of have a like a second chance to just do my own thing and um live my life for just myself and I also part of what I do too is I just think of all these like amazing experience that I have had because I'm on my own. And part of it is putting myself into situations where I get to do very cool things. And part of it is just that because I didn't have a partner that was, we were doing certain things and this and that, um, it just showed up for me. So I kind of do like a combination of making sure I'm planning for my future and like looking

optimistic at that, keeping my life really full and um remembering that like this is all this amazing stuff that's happened because I'm on my own and I've been able to welcome all of this into my life without having a partner so I think that covers it and I guess without having have ever met that person you may not have ended up living here and having the career you had so one door always leads to the next and that's quite a fascinating idea about life, I think. And if you was to ever get, would you get married again? I, because I don't want children,

I don't really see the need. Okay. I would love to, I do want to have somebody to commit to for the long term and for forever, but I don't really feel the need to be tied up in all the paperwork. And we're going to, I think we're going to have our own little empires and we'll come together for some things, but I think we don't need, I just don't really see the need to tie up, but never say never, I guess. You keep that fuck you fund for going Australia then. You might not need it.

Positive mindset. How do you stay positive you're generally positive about it anyway though aren't you I think my positivity comes from me only just started dating last year yeah so I'm just like whoo and also from I've lost a lot of weight so also losing a lot of weight makes me feel like I've got a whole new lease on life and your confidence so my confidence has got up yeah so it's kind of easy for me to stay positive right now they're absolutely it's he never known six months i'll be fuming but right now what about you i agree with jess wholeheartedly i feel that way and also i think i take ease as well is that the right word like relief from knowing that there's so many great women that are all feeling the same right now i'm sure there's amazing men also feeling the same, but us three here right now.

Yeah, where are they? Where are they? Where are they? We're on Instagram. And yeah, we're all sat here, you know, I have family, friends, just amazing women all around me. And they're also single and in that position of really finding it hard to find a great partner to match them. And I do, if it's fair to say, take a bit of relief in that position of really finding it hard to find a great partner to match them and I do if it's fair to say take a bit of relief in that that you know it's not just you feeling that

way yeah me too thank you so much Jess for joining us and you're giving some amazing top tips oh my god so many tips yeah and it was just a fascinating story so thank you for sharing where can people follow you so my business is called Love and london and we're across youtube instagram tiktok but also um i post about being an entrepreneur sometimes about dating things like that on just dante on instagram and tiktok thank you send everyone there and of course you can follow us on daisy dates podcast tiktok instagram and listen to us on spotify amazon google and watch on youtube