Dan Wootton Outspoken - ANGRY IMAM HITS OUT AT EX-MUSLIM WOMAN IN EXPLOSIVE CLASH ON TRUTH OF ISLAMIST TAKEOVER & SEXISM

Episode Date: July 29, 2026

This is a special edition of Outspoken to tackle one of the most heated and taboo issues in the West today about how women are really treated in the Islamic religion. Going head to head in the Clash for the first time are ex-Muslim activist Nuriyah Khan and Islamic scholar and Imam Dr Sheikh Ramzy, the founder of the Oxford Islamic Information Centre. LIKE & SUBSCRIBE for new videos every day: https://youtube.com/@danwoottonoutspoken?si=-2BhmEbBSN1fyESS?sub_confirmation=1 ---------- Find the full audio show wherever you get your podcasts: Apple — https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dan-wootton-outspoken/id1762436723 Spotify — https://open.spotify.com/show/19Ltoneek2MSPL10CpSA1J?si=8f6d84e2db56448c ---------- Follow Dan on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@outspokendan Follow Dan on Twitter: https://x.com/danwootton Follow Dan on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/danwootton/ Follow Dan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danwootton/?hl=en #DanWootton#DanWoottonOutspoken#news#outspoken#uknews Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Now streaming on Disney Plus, the Hulu original series Furious follows FBI agent Alice Black, played by Emmy Rossum, on the hunt for a mysterious and calculating serial killer. Both walk their own paths toward justice, and as their lives start to intertwine, the line between right and wrong begins to blur. New episodes week over week. Watch the Hulu original series Furious, now streaming only on Hulu on Disney Plus. Muslims like myself who have left the faith have to be quiet when they do because we all know that the punishment for leaving Islam is death according to mainstream scholarship.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The Pakistani Muslim rape gangs, which have been covered up, up and down this country. There is no cover off. How do you explain the burqa and the Nika? The woman loved to worry. Dr. Ramsey, can you really sit here today and say with a straight face that Islam is the religion of peace? Islam does not mean peace.

Islam means submission to the will of Allah. She's absolutely wrong. Gay men are punished under Sharia law. No. No. No. Not punished in Sharia law at all. You're saying it should be illegal for people to criticize Islam?

Of course. He ordered the killing of all black dogs because he thought they had the devil in them. These are told, I told Gobelaguk. She said, this is a woman's talk. Women's talk. Did you just say no way we were speaking women's talk? That would change. Some people would say that means that maybe you look down on women.

because you want to be in television or whatever, you disrespect everyone. What do you think about the fact that people have been killed or lost their jobs for showing cartoons that lampoon the Prophet Muhammad in recent years? Insulting the people is worse than putting a knife on them. If you're taught that it is worse to put down the Prophet Muhammad than actually stab people, you must understand that's why so many Islamists are going to stab people. You want the UK to become Islam. UK will be the Muslims.

When do you think of the... be the first religion of this country. Very soon. Have you met King Charles? Of course. Do you believe that he is a proponent for Islam? He likes it, you mean. What's he said to you about this?

No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wooden. This is a special edition of Outspoken to tackle one of the most heated and taboo issues in the West today, how women are really treated in the Islamic religion. During this episode of The Clash going head to head for the first time, our ex-Muslim activist, Norea Khan, who is facing off against Islam scholar Dr Sheikh Ramsey. Strappen, because nothing is off limits today. Let's go. While feminists claim that women live in a patriarchal hellhole in the West, they often turn a blind eye to the real victims of barbaric and very obvious sexism.

Muslim women who are subjected to brutal inequality under Islamism. But Muslim men often say that their wives and their daughters live a good and decent life despite the deprivation of rights like speaking in public or choosing what to wear. So do Muslim women not know how good they have it or do the men lack the empathy to understand their suffering? Two perfect people to clash on this today. Norea Khan is an ex-Muslim activist. She broke free of the faith, in part because of its treatment of women. She's going head to head with the top Islam scholar, Dr. Sheikh Ramsey of Oxford University.

So let's clash. Maria, you have 60 seconds. Do you think women have a good life under Islam? Thanks, Dan. I believe that Muslim women can live good lives if they are under the protection of a liberal democracy. When you talk about classical Islam, on the other hand, you just need to look at countries like Afghanistan, Iran, or the home of Islam, Saudi Arabia, to see that women are either completely subjugated, oppressed, or in the example of Saudi Arabia, only now coming, stepping forward into the modern age out of the medieval rules. where they couldn't drive, they couldn't travel without a guardian. So in my opinion, because of Quran 434 and similar verses, which gives males men a degree of authority over women,

they are told to be righteous and obedient. They are also allowed to be disciplined physically, i.e. domestic abuse is permitted. And Quran 4-3 also gives men the right to marry up to four women and take sex slaves. Not only that, but the Hadith follows and causes. women deficient in intelligence. And so I would argue that a woman is nothing more than a glorified pet or a child in Islam, always under the guardianship or authority of a man, and she has no right to divorce, custody if the marriage breaks down, and she only is entitled to half the inheritance as well. Not only that, but she cannot marry anybody besides a Muslim man.

Okay, fascinating. Dr. Sheikh Ramsey is the director of the Oxford Islamic Information sent her 60 seconds. Why is she wrong? She's wrong because of course what she saw and she gone under is a culture. It's not Islam. It's a culture for example. Afghanistan very well.

And they're okay with that or they're not okay with that. So we are as a Western, we see different. For example, if you go to Egypt, they very different. If you go to Turkey, they very different. But they love to stay in Islam We got about 2.4 billion Muslim around the world, which half of them are the Muslim women. And of course, they are very, very pleased to be in Islam. We have one or two like a norio or a few, like a norio which they say, no, no, no, no, no, no.

It was that, it was that perhaps his father, for example, many, many, many Muslim, sometimes Muslim father abused a child. You know what I'm saying is the same as the rest of the world. most abusing or bring him under control, under control because they say the father, of course, is the king of the... Well, your minutes up. Let's continue the clash now. So, Narea, what Dr. Ramsey seems to be saying is that you are a real exception here. There are not many Muslim women who actually choose to leave the faith because of their treatment. That's absolutely untrue.

I mean, yes, ex-Muslims like myself who have left the faith have to be quiet when they do because we all know that the punishment for leaving Islam is death, according to mainstream scholarship. Muhammad himself in the Hadith has said anyone who changes their religion, kill him or her, although they think women are less inclined to leave Islam. Dr. Ramsey's shaking his head at that, by the way. Yes, and just to follow up, Dr. Ramsey said I might have been abused by my father.

That's absolutely not true. My dad is very cool. There was none of that involved. It was just reading the sources, going through a life experience where Sharia law takes you, makes you confront it head on and you realize, wow, this religion is inherently misogynistic,

backwards, barbaric, and is after anybody that's not a non-Muslim. Dr. Ransi, I want to pick up on some of these specific points because it's important because Noreas put them out there. She says, and remember she lived as a Muslim woman, so she has some experience with this. She says Muslim women are treated

like glorified pets that they're sort of husbands own. And I have seen recent examples on YouTube of Islamic YouTubers who only allow their wives to speak via an whiteboard. No, it is very important which

we say, again, I said, we have a billion Muslim women which are doctor, which are a surgeon, which are working anywhere in the world around, parliament. Is that common? No, what do you mean? It is common.

Everybody can do it and everybody can love that. Again, some people It's a very, very few. We have a very few which in any things, any nation is there like that. Very few which we have which says, oh, I don't like it or are not. For example, in many countries, many countries we have more women in the parliament, more women in the parliament than the UK. Where's that?

UK. That's in Iran. More women in the parliament than the UK. That's a democracy. That's a democracy of them. And some places, of course. The woman is happy. The woman, when the Islam came, they give the right.

Before the Islam, the woman was an slave. An slave, they had nothing to do at all. When the Prophet Peace Spirit upon him came, he gave the rights. Please come in. Please come in. Let's have an open discussion. You say that Islam gave women rights, so they were slaves before Islam came. Is that correct? Before Islam, yes.

Okay. So can you explain why Mohammed's first wife, who was much older than him, Khadija, she was a high priestess of the Quresh tribe. She ran her own business. or multiple businesses, then there was another lady called Hind, who was a very successful businesswoman. When Islam came, after Khadija onwards,

no other Muslim women ever held the same status or was allowed to operate businesses. Women were told to stay home, cover up, guard their trustee. No, no, no, at all. Many, many Muslim was Aishah, one of the wife, one of the prophet, one of the wife, one of the prophets,

a prophet peace, per one of the wife. He was leading when the prophet peace was dying. She was saying, not a child bride. Say it again? Not a child bride. We haven't got no child. Nothing called child. Nothing called in a son child.

Being married at six years old, what is that called? No, you have to remember. There's a child, not a child bride. It is what they say is a nine, of course, in the, in the, in the, in the, uh, Hadith come, no, no, but it wasn't a nine. It is a 19. The scholar find it is one, one, one. That's convenient.

That's convenient. Has been, has been taken off. So you reject Bukhari? You reject Bukhari? I reject Bhaari. And everything is where she says. 9 is 19. She was 19. She was right. She was right for her and she become a leader, leader of the woman. When the Prophet Peace Peace Beopening died, he was, she was talking to all,

take all and taking forward all the men. Men come and talks and say, so they say, oh, wife of the people of the the, we want to do that, we want to do that. And she was giving advice these are the things Because Dr. Tramsey, there is a lot of concern about the fact that the Pakistani Muslim rape gangs, which have been covered up up and down this country, have been... Well, no, no, no. No, you say, here we go. Explain. Why are you worried about me talking about that?

No, no, no, no. You can talk about it completely. You can talk about it. We know, and anybody, anybody... You said, here we go. Because always, you know how many times the people ask, me this. In the middle of the street, in the university. What is the bigger cover up in British history?

There is not a cover of what happened. I told them, of course, when they cut them, for example, in the Restel. Regal was there. I said, I said, they have to be punished the maximum punishment. No girl must be, must be like this, like this, like this, but she got grooming. Grooming should not groomed. But what does Islam say about non-Muslim women? Why should Muslim women cover up and non-Muslim women don't have to cover up? Who said, well, we should cover up? I've got the laws of Muslim

women which are not covered off, at least a million Muslim women here which are not covered up, who says they are not Muslim? So according to Quran 34 where it says, oh, believing men, tell your Muslim women to bring over their bosoms a cloth so that they may be recognized. What does that mean? That's a class here, not a cover. But another thing I tell you, again, it says so that they are not harassed or molested. What does that mean that non-Muslim women can be harassed and molested?

It was a time. It was a time which at that time of the Prophet's Allah, Now is a different. But at the moment, so the Quran is not forever, that means. That book is just... No, no, it can be, can be interpreted different. You can't have it both ways. No, no, it can be different.

Quran, the verses, the verses of Quran, you don't know, of course. I'm the scholar for Quran, the first... I've read the Quran, I know. You don't have to be a scholar to understand the Quran. It's not a very impressive book. Allow me to say, I'll stop it. Allow me to say, I'll stop it. Sure.

Quran has, can be, can be, 27 different, different versions can be translated, any verse. Any verses. Okay. But then how do you explain the burqa and the knee cab? I mean, if you walk around East London today, right? For example, Whitechapel, you mainly see women now in burqas and kneecabs. Is your suggesting?

Because I just want to make this clear. I don't know. Is your contention that all of these women who are living in modern Britain are choosing to cover up an outfits? With some of them it's like this, they can only see like this, you can't see anything else. Are you saying that is not something they are forced to do? It's a choice. This is called freedom, of choice, always freedom of choice.

I had, of course, one incident like that before, many incidents, of course. Sometimes I preach in the street. I had an incident like that. The woman came to me, one of the English women, and said, You're doing the woman like that, you're doing the woman like that, you're doing the woman like that, you put in a scarf on her, that, that, that, that. You strain in the woman in the kitchen and so and so and so. I said, okay. By incident or by the way, a woman was, I remember, a militian woman or also was passing with the scarf.

Yes. I said, Madam, can you come in here, please? She came. I said, okay, take her a scarf off. You see what's she doing to you? Okay, take it. Dare to take herself. She said, no, I am.

She's a hand in the heart. He said, I am wearing it with a choice. If I don't wear it, I feel naked. And of course, the woman has been... But that's surely because she's been taught that by the religion or her husband. It's not a taught and your husband. Of course, we have to find that it is... No, no, or God will punish her.

She'll go to hell if she's not covered up. It's your husband. No, it is not going... No, no, you don't know the hell. So why was a woman in Iran beaten to death? Massa, Jinnah, Aminia? Again, it was beaten to death. Tradition.

Tradition. For showing two strands of... Tradition, I can't do anything. Islam is different. You are talking about the tradition of the people. For example, everywhere has got Islam wrong. Egypt as well. They would beat their women if they don't wear hijab. Again, again, the tradition of these countries. Tradition, somebody where it's burqa, somebody, where they're in Nihab, somebody were nothing. And that's why I said, Dan, they have a good life under a liberal democracy only. Many people in this country very nothing, nothing at all. And they say Muslim. I saw, I'm saying of course, I saw a woman which was selling herself.

I said, it's not right. He said, I am a Muslim, I don't care. I love Islam, but I want to say it. Well, she was a prostitute. Yes. I said, welcome. So what you're saying? So you're saying women can be prostitutes and Muslim.

If they want to be, if they want to be, welcome. If they want freedom of course. What I'm just, what I'm just trying to get my head around. What I'm saying, but what I'm just trying to get my head around, Dr. Ramson. Why on earth? I mean, no one sensible in a. society would choose to leave the house. I mean, it's 40 degrees in London some days. What like that? So, so, so, so I'm just fascinated that you're saying it's just a tradition.

It's tradition and the woman love to wear it. Really? Love to wear it. That's not. That's a lot to wear it. Otherwise, it's in this country. I think you should speak to some Iranian women. Woman in this country. Do you, do you encourage women to wear it? I'm not encouraging. I say freedom of a choice. If the woman was wearing, many times I I've been in the television, BBC, you name it. I said freedom of choice. If the woman wants to wear,

this country, this country is trying to push everything off from the woman. Other countries are trying to put it on? Not everything off, just your choice. It's up to you how you want to dress. You're not pleased. Leave the woman alone. Let's say what they want to do. Leave the woman.

Nerea, do you believe that women are really choosing to wear the kneecap and burqa? Absolutely not, Dan. Anytime you look when a theocracy loosens its grip, like in Afghanistan when the Taliban were out of power, the women stopped wearing that entire rag over themselves because no woman, as you said, wakes up and thinks, right, this is how I want to go about daily life for the rest of my life.

And usually... I mean, it's not safe. I mean, you know so many car accidents are caused by women in the knee cabin. Berger, surely you accept it's not safe. They don't have their full vision. I haven't heard that the woman. Oh, I have. Again, no, I haven't heard that at all.

And I don't agree with that. However, I can't say the woman cannot see if, of course, going here and there with the two eyes open. Leave, I say, leave the woman alone. If they want to bear a burke, there are a lot to wear. If they want to wear nothing, there are a lot to wear, if they want to wear anything. I am a scholar. I'm Islamic scholar, and it's my fatwa. Leave the woman alone.

I wish people would listen to your fatwa. That's right. In this country, in this country, they are forced in the woman to take that, that, that. another country they are forced and the women very dark. This is not right. Let them women. But for example, but for example, Fahima Muhammad, who is the Green Party candidate and also a Muslim woman, Nerea has debated her before, even admits that there are women who are punished in the United Kingdom, Muslim women who are punished for being divorced or being single.

In any religion with the 2.5 billion, you find that by Islam? Under Islamist law. In Christianity, you find some fault. In the Judaism, you find some fault. At the moment in Judaism, before one to say, the woman cannot get divorced until a man divorced her. But that's what aboutry, isn't it? That's what aboutry.

I mean, we're talking about Islam today. In general, all the religion got one thing and what you can see. The Islam came for the peace. So you are genuinely saying that women have more rights under Islam than they do Judaism or Christianity? No, no. It's not a matter of Judaism and Christianity.

It's not a matter of both of them. Yes. Women, when they come, the Prophet Peace upon it, came, give the freedom, freedom to women, freedom of right, freedom of inheritance in this country. But this is not merely experience. Elamism. That's experience of one or two is a different.

Experience, lesson to experience. In this country, They gave the inheritance, right to inheritance woman. Woman had no inheritance. In this country, the woman has no inheritance. Yes, but yours is in the Quran, which is forever, which says she gets hard. Bring a Quran, Quran, Quran, you are not... Is that your holy book, scholar?

What do you mean in the Quran? You are not the face of book. Don't appear to authority. Sorry, I'm not buying this argument. It's boring. Only a scholar does not know Islam. Can I ask a question? Yes, please.

Please, can you answer me truthfully? Does Quran force? 3434 give a Muslim man the right to physically discipline his wife. No, it depends, depend on, depend on the way. So it does give them the right. Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, you have to remember at that time of the Prophet Sall Allah a Ali and a salle. I can't remember exactly 334, I'll be referring to 334.

But you're the scholar of the Quran, you don't remember? Yes, yes, of course, just, I understand what you say. But at that time they were not, eh, they were at a prison. What they were doing, of course, they said, keep the woman, keep the woman in that. For example, if she done, she done fashah or zenah. Zana. You understand? Someone I'm saying, keep the woman in the house.

It does not say that. And if the marriage, if the marriage is called Shariabu. If the marriage, if the marriage, for example, broke, just let her go. Let her go. Let her go. If you fear disobedience from her, you need to admonish her, then separate your beds and finally beat her. How many people you see beating her and a woman? Oh, look at the Islamic world.

Are there, are there some circumstances where it's appropriate? under Islam for a woman to be disciplined by her husband? Are there any circumstances? There is some circumstances. There is some circumstances. They come, but is a decision. Decision has to be made. So, like, for example, if the woman cheats on the man.

No, under, no, I'll tell you, as Islamist's character, under no circumstances, the woman should be hit or beat or kept in the house. Even if she cheats? Even if she cheats, the best thing they can. divorce. I divorce is there. I divorce 400 people. I'm sorry, that's a lie. That's an outright lie. The Quran says if you fear, if you fear disobedience, she doesn't have to even cheat. She can just say no, I don't want to have sex with you tonight. I don't want to go

to dinner. If you fear disobedience, your final third, the third method on fixing that is to beat her. And you know, you're a scholar, you know scholars have, what to beat her. I didn't beat my wife. My wife said many things. You're a very nice scholar, but what do to be a hundred In Hohanna, in Arabic, means two beats. Now, scholars have done debates on to how lightly with what, how she should beat her, beat her so you don't leave a mark. You can't beat your wife the way you beat your slave women. And I mean, an imman recently told Nate Friedman in Birmingham

that there were some circumstances where it was acceptable in the UK for a Muslim man to discipline his woman. I would not agree with that again as an Islamic scholar. I say, you see, they do the divorce. Is there straight? He can divorce her. Okay. There is no problem.

And if the woman want to have a man has a, man has, for example, hanky-panky, he can divorce her as well. Come to me and I sort it out. But, but you don't see there, for example, you know, you, you don't see if you want, for example, bad apple in the, in the whole box of apple, you take a bad apple off, it should don't make it, make it a different. And it's, noria. The Quran.

The Quran. The Quran is the bad apple. Hold this apple. The Quran is the rotten barrel here. Okay, we'll hold that thought because is Islam really peaceful? Blowing up public transport, detonating nail bombs at pop concerts, cars ramming into citizens, stabathons, flying planes into buildings. I mean, I could go and this has all been done in the name of Islam, or as the MSM likes to call it, the religion of peace. So I wanted to debate whether Islam really is peaceful at all.

And we have two perfect people to do that today because Narea Khan is an ex-Muslim activist. She is going here to hear with Dr. Sheikh Ramsey, who is the director of the Oxford Islamic Information Center. So Dr. Ramsey, can you really sit here today and say, with a straight face that Islam is the religion of peace? Islam is the religion of peace? Absolutely. I can't say without that. I'm saying it by heart.

I'm saying it. Put in a hand in the name of God, Islam is a peaceful. Islam means peace. Islam, the meaning of Islam is a peace. And of course, who is the God of the peace? It's called, Ar Rahman. That means the most merciful. The most merciful, you said Islam is not peaceful.

The people are there. The people are there, the people are there, which they're doing different things, different things which they make it, for example, if you see the people by the car going, that, that you find out what has happened before. Of course, he is wrong, absolutely wrong. He should be punished completely. He should be punished with the most punishment. If you kill, if you're damaged, if you're done, because God, God says, if you kill one person, you're lucky kill the nation. What you need to do is, is to look at, look at it, Islam, when he came, brought a peace to the whole. All the tribe which they were fighting, all the tribe of Islam, 12 tribes they were there at that time. They were fighting which other. When the Islam came, brought it. And after that, Islam was so peaceful, which he came to Spain.

After a few years, he came to Spain. When he said, there is no God except Allah, and the Prophet Muhammad Sallu'll a Ali-Wa-Selam come. The Prophet of Islam was his name was peace. He brought a peace. And God says, and not arsonlake of God. Oh, prophet of God.

Oh, prophet of God, the Almighty God said, I did not send you. I did not send a message except the mercy to the mankind. You said mercy of God is not a peace? Or we say mercy of not God is not a peace. We're going to debate that. But Nariah Khan, your response. You've got one minute.

Is Islam really the religion of peace? Well, first of all, I'd like to make a massive correct. correction because that's misinformation. Islam does not mean peace. Islam means submission and it means submission to the will of Allah. And I'll comment some more on that in a moment. But what I would like to say is, Sheikh Ramsey, for example, Muslims like yourself, they are not inherently violent, Muslims themselves as people. However, the Quran itself does contain some nice fluffy passages, I agree, but the important thing to remember is they have been abrogated. Those fluffy verses where when Muhammad was in Mecca and he barely had any following,

as soon as he gets to Medina, he becomes a whole different beast. This crazy warlord, his nature of aggressive battles, offensive battles come out. And Dr. Sheikh Ramdi called Allah, the God of Islam, the Most Merciful, Rahman Rahim. He's also, he's got 99 names, by the way, and one of his other names is the best of deceivers. And Muhammad has gone on to say that war is deceit. So in Quran 929, it commands to fight the people of the book, i.e. Jews and Christians, until they pay Jizia attacks while they are humiliated, subdued, or as you know, in other translations, humbled. Let me finish, please. Do you believe?

Can I finish that? Yes, please. Finish your point. Quran 839 goes on to command fighting until the religion of is for Allah everywhere. That is the same command today that you see terrorists around the world. in order to justify their jihad because they want to make the entire world Islamic.

And then you get onto the fact that Muhammad himself, you mentioned that he was considered the most peaceful of all. He himself says he's made victorious through terror. And that's how God had given him a divine gift to be victorious

by casting terror into the hearts of his enemies from a month away. Dr. Ramsey, how do you respond? Well, the most important, of course, absolutely, she's absolutely wrong. when we believed on the top is a merciful God. He says, God of the mercy, a merciful God.

If you send a merciful God, that's a different. If you don't believe the God, and forget about all the Islam and whatever, what, and put it away. If you believe in the God, but she send a prophet, peace, be upon him, and tell the prophet peace be upon him, you are the best prophet, you are the best character. In the best character, in the best character. You know what it says after that?

If you allow me to say, you were the best of mankind, so raise them up with chains from their necks. That's not good. That's not good. That's no good. Let's close it down. Because when I want to say something, she said,

you're quoting one half of the passage. You're not quoting the second half. You're being very, very deceitful like your Allah. At the moment, sir, you are like my Allah. Allah is a deceitful. If the Allah is a deceitful, if there is Islam a dissuble. Dr. Ramsey, can I ask you a specific question, please?

because you're obviously an Islamic scholar. What does in Islamic literature the green birds of paradise mean? Green bird of paradise? Yeah. I haven't heard the green bird of paradise. You're talking about, what are you talking about? Have you heard about it, Norea?

Yes, absolutely. I would assume any scholar would know about the green bird. It's a massive mascot and a reason to be a lot more steadfast in your faith because who doesn't want to be, or their sons, to be attributed to a green bird in Jannah? Green bird of Janda? We haven't got anything called green bird of Janda.

We have a different totally issued green bird of Janda. This is coming from Pakistan or where you're coming from from Pakistan. It's a green bird of Janda. We want to be green or yellow. There is going to be human. Exactly the same as human. Because I'm told that it symbolizes martyrdom. No, martyrdom.

Martyrdom is a different thing. It's not a green at all, at all. they made it. They made the people made it. It's not a grim. If they were martyr, if you're martyr, of course, the procedure. Procedure. When the person is going to be martyr, it doesn't go and they get the car and they're buying it going to be somebody. But I want, I wanted to ask you this for a very specific reason because it's a very important case. So, yes, uh, Muhammad Bashir and jihad al-Shami, are you aware of both of those men? But I heard that was terrorism. Yeah, that's right. So, so al-Shame is now dead. He was the one.

who attacked the synagogue in Manchester. But Muhammad Bashir, we didn't know anything about him until last week. That's right. And unfortunately, it turns out that he is also a jihadist who had been conspiring with al-Shame. But the reason I wanted to ask you about this is that the reason he was caught is because CCTV footage within the mosque, within the mosque prayer room, caught the conversations between these two men and they were planning to blow up the defence centre

just outside of Swindon. But within their conversation, Bashir smiled and turned to al-Sharmie and said, this time next year, we will be in green birds. They're talking rubbish. They're absolutely talking rubbish. The absolute basic...

Their mind is bugle. They are mad people. Mad people getting killed. Islam and Christianity and Judaism are a three religion of Abrahamic religion which has been respected the same. The same God. The doctrine of the Muslim Christian and Islam is got a one God. There is a one God and we have to respect them. The books has to be respected. The people have to be respected. Are you concerned that this conversation took place in the prayer room of a mosque? Well, it is happening. This is stupid, they should shut the mosque down. Yeah. They should. They should. They should shut the

I totally agree. However, however, what we need to do, of course, these are crazy people. Crazy people, which I've come from, I don't know. But they've been radicalized by Islam, though. This is what motivated them. No, it's not radicalism, but Islam radical was awful people, which, for example, something happened in the, for example. But they thought they were going to become martyrs. They are not martyrs. They are going to help because they kill innocent people. But they don't know. They just train. They brainwashed these people. By whom? By somebody. Amman's?

I don't know. By Amans? Maybe by Imams. Maybe somewhere. Maybe somewhere else. Maybe. Maybe God knows best, of course. I don't know. Maybe they see, for example, what is happening in the, what's happening in the Gaza? What's happening in the Lebanon? What's happening in that, that, that, that.

It says, if you do something. So that radicalized by the Middle East is what it is. It may. But what we can do, of course. Norea shaking her head. Yes, it may be medical. Of course, it's radical, but not with this country. It shouldn't be this country.

It's coming from outside. I think it's coming from outside. And of course, maybe from Afghanistan, maybe from Pakistan. God knows best. I don't know. I don't. I can't know. But these men were living in the United Kingdom.

I mean, I know. I mean, but, but Mohammed Bashir has a Pakistani passport, but he's born here. And al-Sharmie came here, I think, when he was when he was about six. years old. Yeah, but they're being radicalized in the UK. Nariya, you're shaking your head. Of course. Where do you disagree? No, honestly, Dan, I'm just sick of this because it's such hogwash about this. It's never Islam.

It's never the true Islam. You keep singling out Pakistan, Afghanistan. That's absolutely categorically untrue. May I finish peace? Islam is Salama. No, Islam is Salama. Islam means Salamah peace. This is not a sharia council where only men can speak.

Please let me finish. God. She has come, come, this is not a council. Well, it's not. So I'm talking to the sugar, this is not the Sharia cancer. Can you see that she is trying to say, just crashing on me as well. Damage on me. Okay, but look, let her make her point and then you can respond.

I want you both to be able to respond. Of course, it's no problem. This is how sly and nefarious scholars, quote and quote of Islam are. They think they can gatekeep Islam. He misquoted exactly what President Bush did when you quote one half of the verse of the Quran and say, killing one person is equivalent to killing mankind. That verse in the Quran is for the, is aimed, is talking to the children. of Israel, the following verse says, if you experience mischief in the land, cut off the opposite

hands and feet of those people. That is in the Quran. And that's referring to what Muslims should do if they experience fitna or mischief in the land. So when you sit here and look people in the eye and say, these people are not being radicalized by what they're hearing in terms of what Islam tells you to do by the imams in mosques. It is categorically false. It's so untrue to sit here and say, Only I know what Islam is it's peaceful That's not what all the Muslims around the world think compared to when they follow their Quran to achieve I'm not responsible all the Muslims strike them at the fingertips strike them at the next why do you think where does ISIS get that inspiration from Are they all are they not following I saw you I saw I saw one of your face which which is a pointed at me

I don't want to I don't want to be of course pointed out he's a sharia law He's the sharia he will bring a sharia law that is not right just calm down I'm not pointing like that Calm down, calm down, calm down and listen. Calm down and listen and respect. You have got no respect for nobody. I don't have respect for liars either. I'm sorry, we're not initially a council.

I say it again. Again, we are not in Sharia. Did I ask about the Sharia cancel? Did I ask anything about the Sharia? Did I talk? She's just talking normal into anything. Can I ask, can I ask you, Dr. Ramsey? Because previously, my good friend now, he's passed on,

but James Way had previously, had previously, interviewed you, Dr. Ramsey, and he asked you whether you thought Sharia law was more important than British law, and you didn't actually answer that question. Sharia, I do not, do not like it to be called Sharia law, because Sharia law has been, has been, the name of the Sharia, when you make it, make it Arabist. Islam is not Arabis, Islam, belong to whole world. God, God, in the Holy Quran, he doesn't say all Muslim, he says, oh mankind, oh mankind, of course, when we get to, and Sharia law has. been, the name of the Sharia has been diluted with the several, several, awful things.

But what's more important? What's more important? Let me tell you. Let me tell you. Let me tell me what's more important. British law. British law is a land. British law is a law. British law is a law. Has it has a respect. And of course, at the moment, which we want to see many, many countries, many countries. But it doesn't have respect here. As a respect, of course, what was that? The Archbishop, Archbishop William, who was the Archbishop in 2008? William, I can't remember the name at a moment.

Okay. So you think Sharia law is as important. He said Sharia law should be here. The next one, Nicholas, Nicholas, I remember, Nicholas Phillips, which is the head of the judge, he said, we can't use this some Sharia law. So you would like Sharia law in the UK? It's not a Sharia law.

We are talking about Islamic jurisprudence, not a Sharia law. And that means chopping people's hands off the stealing? Chopping people. Have you seen anybody shopping? In other countries I have, yes. No, they haven't. They haven't. Saudi Arabia where I grew up, Saudi Arabia where I grew up had a swear in Riyadh.

In Riyadh. Now you're going to say Saudi Arabia is not real Islam. Crazy people then. No, no, no, no. It's a crazy people there. They had a square, Dan. called Chop Chop Chop Square in Riyadh, literally called Chop Chop Choir by expats.

Westerners would say that. And they would chop off people's hands. Yes, they would announce after Friday. Okay, what about, what about whipping? What about whipping people, giving people a hundred lashes for, none at all, none at all. You look at, you look at the Islamic law, which this government accepted, which the Islamic finances,

he says, is the best finances in the world. We want to use it. You can't get a mortgage, for goodness sake, what do you mean? And of course, the government, and of course, again, many, many, many archbishops, many bishops, many bishops, which you say, they say it perhaps is good part of the Islamic law has been used in our organization. Do you think is Amaz. Do you think sharia law? Forget about sharia.

Please don't call the Sharia law. But it's the same thing. Thank you. Don't get bogged out by words. Yes. It's the same thing. You know, one thing I tell you, my dear Dan, if I tell you, sit down or put your backside down or please do see. Which is all the same.

What? Which one is better for? you. Please do sit down. Or put your back side down. You say, oh, you're rude to me. I say, please do sit down. It's all the same. But under Sharia law, you would punish me because I'm a gay man. I'm not punishing you at all. I said Sharia law is Sharia. Sharia means the way. Again, Islamic Jerusalem is true to the water, way to the life. It came for a top society, make a best society. But gay men are punished under Sharia law. Say it again. are punished under Sharia law.

No. No. No. No. Sharia law, not punished in Sharia law at all. Gay men, if there are a gay man, so what, they can be, they can be Muslim. Do you know the story of Sahail Ahmed? I haven't heard the story, but whatever I'm telling you, the gay, I can I just tell you the story of Sahal Ahmed?

It's very important. Before then that, five gays come to Islam with me. They say, oh, they're going to kill us. Five gay, there's something with me. I'm a missionary, Muslim missionary. came, said, welcome. They come, welcome. He said, oh, they're going to kill us. And they came. To where? To Oxford. They came to, and in Oxford, one of them become women, all gone. You know what I'm saying? Everything gone. Trans. Yeah, yeah, trans. Everything gone. And he said, I want to go to the mosque. And I introduced him to the ladies. Hand in a heart.

So trans is now acceptable in. Again, allow me to tell you. I told the ladies, slowly. I told the ladies in a mask, he is trans. And he's. turned to a woman and he's got a certificate. He said, welcome. They both take him to the mosque. They take him to the hand in a heart. That's a very progressive mosque. That is a way how it goes. Slowly, slowly.

I'm just struggling to believe this only because I've interviewed Sahel Ahmed as well. And he is a Muslim man. You know, he is a Muslim man, but he's a Muslim gay man. Okay, but he is a Muslim man. And I'm sure you know his story. He was about to blow up Canary Wharf with an IED. That was something that he was taught in one of the mosques of East London.

But he then admitted that he was gay and there was a process where he went through an exorcism and it was an absolutely brutal process of de-radicalisation. Well, this happened. We haven't got the exorcism. But Dr. Ramsey, this is someone who lived through this. He's British-born. These are all in the mosques of East London.

And he told me that the teaching in the mosques of East London is to throw gay men off the top of buildings. And that's why he was going to blow up Canary Wharf because he felt as a gay man he had to do something to be accepted into the faith. No, not at all. I don't believe that. Go to Islam. Go to Islamas. Go to Islam Mosque. Sheikh Abdul Qaume is an Imam al-Mufti of that. Ask him and he will tell you they say gay people, if they are a Muslim, welcome. This is a different, different stories there. There are many different stories. Mohamed would be turning in his grave. Yes, exactly. We're going to go to that.

Yes, you can go there. You can ask, you can ask Dr. Sheikh Ramsey. Wow. So, very important. People welcome. We said, I tell you, I tell you what, this is a different time of business. I tell you what, sometimes I'm preaching in the middle of the street, the gay prey coming and going. And I say, God bless you all, God bless you all. When God bless somebody, he opens his art to Islam. And the next door to me was a Christian. You know what he was saying?

What is, I'm with respect to him, you're going to hell, you're going to hell, God going to God going to hell, God going to her. And these words are saying, Islam is a kind, show kindness to the people. I was in the parliament, which is talking about the exorcism. in the parliament which they were changing in the parliament which talking talking about exorcism. I said Islam has not Christianity because it's very odd to me it's not what most people think can I just ask do you still believe that Salman Rushdie should have

apologized? Salmon Rushdie if anyone if anyone not Salman shri if anyone of course I'm a little bit different but if anyone if anyone insult my prophet, I would rather insult my mother than insult my prophet. I loved it. Insult my God. If you want to insult my God, I'd rather insult me. So he should have apologized. He should have apologized and everything was... Was it wrong that he was subject to a fatwa and they nearly killed? Well, some going fatwa, that's a different, different people getting different fatwa. They're an older scholar, which is 6, 10,000, 100 million people going forward.

they say, and they are responsible for that. I say, of course, I met him as well. I say he should have apologized because he insulted by insulting the Prophet, and by insulting the Quran, he insult me. Should Salman Rusty have apologized? Absolutely not, but there goes free speech. I mean, it's such a childish nature of Islam

that you can't speak about a dead man and the ideology that's caused so much pain to the world. And, you know, you're killing people here over cartoons or a book, for goodness sake. He was an author writing. He even called a book. Free speech doesn't go. Free speech doesn't go.

You know what I'm saying. Everything got a measure. Your hand goes 180. Your neck goes on everything. So is it true that you... So is it true that you think... There should be a law. Absolutely.

This country got a law. This country has a law... Against Islamophobia. Islamophobia. There is a law exam for the Islamophobia. We are not talking about Islamophobia. We are talking about the Salman Rosti. But should Islamophobia be illegal?

illegal. What do you mean illegal? So it should not be allowed? Should it be banned? Should you be able to go to jail? It's exactly like it. Anti-Semitism. Antisemitism is exactly like that.

So you believe in a blasphemy law effectively? Blasphemy law? No, I don't believe in blasphemy law at the moment, but we are looking again, I said. But you're saying it should be illegal for people to criticize Islam? Of course. If I draw, if I draw, if you'd draw, what would happen to me?

If you draw, Muhammad, nothing. You wouldn't do it. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. Somebody was saying, somebody was saying, somebody was saying, I want to, do you know, I want to draw, I want to, I want to, say, what are you drawing? I said, I drawing the God. I draw in the face of God. He says, he says, how do you know?

The God is, I haven't got the face. How do you know? He said, it was a lot. Okay. There is no problem. No problem. Hold that thought. Hold that thought because I wanted to speak about the Prophet Muhammad actually,

because there will be a lot of people watching who don't understand what the Prophet Muhammad is all about, okay? and he is gaining influence over the West. After all, Muhammad is now the most popular baby name in the disunited kingdom, has been for a number of years. But despite kids being named after him, today we're asking, is he really a good role model? So let me just introduce the people clashing this out,

ex-Muslim activist, Nariq Khan, who is going head to head with the Islamic scholar, Dr. Sheikh Ram, Pleasure. So great to have you both here. One minute first to you, Narea, is Muhammad a good role model? So Quran 3321 says that Muhammad is an excellent example to follow for humanity and that's why this is an issue

because Muslim men need to emulate Muhammad and they think he was the most perfect human being to ever live. We all know, according to Islam's, this isn't even an anti-Islam source, his own sources say that he married Isha at six and consummated the marriage at nine. So if you think taking a child bride is fine and sexually raping her or sexually assaulting her is okay, then that's what Muhammad did. He had at least 15 wives and four sex slaves. The sex slaves he took were on the back of genocides against Jewish tribes in which he had killed their brothers, their husbands, their fathers,

and then gone to force himself on them those very nights afterwards. He is also gone ahead and revoked the one good thing that was in Islam, which was adoption, because he lusted after his adopted son-in-law's wife, which was also his biological cousin, and that's why you've got cousin marriage enshrined in Islam and no adoption, thanks to Muhammad. He's also gone ahead and called black people raisin heads and would trade two black slaves for the price of one non-black slave. He also mentioned expelling Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and said that he wouldn't stop until that was the case. He also ordered the stoning of a woman to death for adultery.

And in case you love animals, which I know this nation does, we are a nation of animal lovers, he ordered the killing of all black dogs because he thought they had the devil in them. And I can go on and on, but I will also just say. Well, there's a lot there for Dr. Sheikh Ramsey, who is, I should say, the director of the Oxford Islamic Information said to please respond.

These are all tradition of Pakistanis. The Quran and Sehi Bukhari is not from Pakistan. Can I say? Don't be lying now. Do not lie to Muslim. Misdhry, you can cut back after this is his minute. Dr. Sheet, you've got a minute. Yes.

This is all from coming from Pakistan. Now, she, you're laughing because you know. She can't, she can't go, ah, blah, blah, she's right. If it's not in a minute, you, I'm going to know for anything. I should be worried about you. It's not. Are you not going to say Allah, what are you? We are talking.

The goddess great. Yes, yes. Well, that's traumatic for a lot of people. Don't be saying that, willy-nilly. There is no problem, two and a half billion. Respect, two and a half billion going follow the God is great. I wouldn't say that in public. Two and a half billion people, okay?

You just want, because you want to be in television or whatever, you disrespect everyone. I don't disrespect everyone. I care for them. I care for the Jews. I care of for Christian and Christianity. You don't come in and just put everything because you want to be in a, been a little TV.

Now, Prophet's Sallah a lael-a-sala when he born, of course, he was fatherless and he came, a difficult, difficult child time. When he was young, when he got the monies, he was spreading the money to the people. When he was 20 years old, they called him Muhammad Amin. They called him.

At that time, it was not a prophet, 43 years when he was getting profit. Call him Muhammad Amin. This is what is called, Sayyeh Bahari, or Sayah Muslim, more there. Oh, so you believe that now? No, I'm believing I'm directed just, just, no, what is

happening? The Muhammad Amin, Muhammad, I mean, Muhammad, I mean, Muhammad trustworthy. Muhammad, Muhammad, who can, who can care for. Okay, Muhammad, who can, say true. Can I ask you, Dr. Ramsey, some specifics because Norea raised some specifics, which I want to get to. Is it

true that Muhammad is a proponent of cousin marriage? Say it again? Is it true that Muhammad is a proponent of cousin marriage, first cousin marriage. When the Prophet sallah a lao

they came they said marriage marriage between the between the two cousins is okay you want to know that is okay and everybody marrying there is no problem

on that this is a law of God because the God says you can marry this you can marry this So you believe in first cousin marriage they can marriage if you are my brother

if I'm my son can marry I just wanted to check Of course it's a whole war on Is it true that Muhammad was racist towards black people. No, because he had the best friend of him. He was Balal. Belal Haver she was a

black. He's a slave. And was he a slave? He was no, he wasn't a slave. He was companion. He was companion of the Prophet, sallulah a leo-a-sall. Best. Everybody loved to be, because he was, for example, maybe he was looking after him or so and so on, so. So, everybody loved. He looked like a bottle of the king. But everybody loved to be a bottle of the king. So he's a slave, but he was fed. He wasn't a slave. You are talking about butler. He was a bottle of the Hebrew.

When he become to Islam, he become brothers. No brother, nothing. No brothers in Islam can be a slave. Okay. No brothers in Islam can be a slave. And is it true that the reason that a lot of Muslim people seem to hate dogs, is that because of Prophet Muhammad? No, it's not that at all.

Did Prophet Muhammad hate dogs? I don't know Prophet Muhammad. dog or cat or whatever I don't know that one has a meritant but he may he may respect yes he was respecting he's respecting the dog because they saw they saw the Prophet's Allah Allah a son can say a person a person went when there's a side side of the well it was side of the bell he said the dog is the dog is dying from the things he take his shoes he take his shoes look take his shoes and brought from the well water and give it the dog came to the Prophet

Allah Allah Allah Allah al-Assam you are in paradise you're or because of the kindness you show to the dog is in a paradise. This is the doubt. Now, the people say... Norea's disagreeing with your interpretation. Of course, disagree with anything. And everything I said, disagree. All the scholars.

Not me, oldest colors. She wants to be Islam completely gone through the world and the Christianity may be gone. And that are gone, that gone, that are gone, and all gone. And she's a leader. Norea. Dan, there was a puppy dog under Maha'i dog.

Ahmed's bed and he was expecting to get one of his revelations from God so, you know, conveniently. And because he didn't get a revelation for a number of days, he attributed the lack of God speaking to him on a puppy dog that was under his whatever they slept on back then. And then went further and said, all black dogs, because like he doesn't like black anything for some reason, all black dogs are inherently evil and they've got the devil in them. You look at any country, I mean, people were fearing for when the Taliban came back into power in Afghanistan, they wanted to get the dogs out of there as well, because he's got the dogs out of there as well, because they knew exactly what the Taliban would do to them.

So taking one little example from a very inconspicuous source and denying everything else is just not, it's not how Muslims are only allowed to keep dogs if it's for God. Dr. Ramson is that true. The dog has, of course, of course, these are told of the Talibanegu. She said this is a woman's talk. Don't be sex, a misogynistic Islam right there. It's women's talk.

So sorry, so sorry. No, what happened is a dog? It is dog. Did you just say Norea was speaking women's talk? Just look at general woman. That's Islam for you, ladies and jokes. That's not going to help with your pitch that Islam is not sexist. You just, if I said women's talk, I could say it's hot air.

Okay? But you didn't. You said women's talk. I said, I said, I get a change. Some people would say that means that maybe you look down on women. No, I don't look down on that woman. I said it's a talk which the granny says to the children or so on, so. Now, allow me to tell you what the.

what the dog is. What the dog is, at the moment they show, the science shows, the saliva of the saliva of the dog has to be washed. If you get it with something because there is something in saliva which if you have got a disease, if you are ill or if your body is weak,

if you get it with you and go through your system, get damaged. Have it gone, have a look. Don't just pick on that. So that justifies killing all black dogs in Medina. Does that justify? He's a sad, misogynist. Is it a dog?

No. No. Keep dog saliva away from people who are ill. That would be the more godly thing to do. Again, I said these are a talk. Pillar talks. Women talk or bloody talk? Pillot talks.

What does that mean? They're just talking to each other, you know. Women. No, more one man, whatever, whatever, whatever. These are not, hasn't got a base. Gossip. Do you mean gossip? Here you are.

Okay. That's a gossip. What do you think about the fact that people have been killed or lost their jobs for showing cartoons that lampoon the Prophet Muhammad in recent years. I'm thinking of the Charlie Head Boat case in France. Also the teacher in the UK who was forced

out of his job and his home and has not been able to return after showing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed in class. Is that an over-the-top reaction? It's absolutely over-top reaction. I said, I've said in television, I said in BBC, ITV is on all. I said

is totally wrong. Of course, they're showing, but is it disrespect. Was it wrong that they showed it? Is disrespect? Disrespect. And what they done, of course, what the Muslim done, they should have done it before, they take the people to court. He said, this is, you disrespect me, and they show the people to court, which they show, they show these, these cartoons. They show this cartoon. They say, this is you, again, I said, but what could they be taken to court for? Disrespecting the prophet. But that's not a law in the UK. We don't have a blasphemy law.

It's not a blast for me. They're taking him to court. And after that, the court will judge. For what? For what? For disrespecting the prophet. I can draw Jesus. Why can I do a cartoon of Muhammad?

What's the difference? I can draw Moses. Why not Muhammad? If you do... Are you talking about a Sharia court? No, no. No, no. The court, right?

At the moment, they are shaking him. When the satire come, they take, instead of the shout and they're screaming, some crazy people don't done something wrong, but they take him some... some QCs, that term was QCs, C's taking the government of the whole hand or so. But I need to be clear. But I need to be clear.

English did not do it. UK did not do it. Because if the freedom of choice, but they get it, UK did not do it. At that time, I was talking. I was talking to the people, freedom of a choice, but we said we have a freedom of choice, but we don't want to show because we don't want to disrespect. But do you think people should be able to be taken to court? for disrespecting the Prophet Muhammad.

Yes, anybody, of course, if he disrespect my, if you disreservement, if I like to say, for example, two, two or three way we got, two or three way we got, somebody disrespect me and it goes, it's no problem. Somebody will come and disrupt the thing, and I'm not going to fight him. I'm not going to punch him. I'm going to take him to court to say,

you disrespecting. But you can't take someone to court for being disrespectful. Yes, you can. Then you don't know your, you can't get your lawyer and your lawyer. suit. But see, this is something, this is actually quite chilling to me, Norea, because I see this happening a lot. The Islamists are very, very backed up by big money lawyers, and they want to shut down

criticism. I see it happening all the time. And Dr. Ramsey seems to be suggesting that this is the new way of shutting down criticism of Islam, just suing people. Yeah, they think that that's, because you can't have an outright blasphemy law in this country, thankfully. They're trying to push for it through backdoor means such as the Islamophobia law, otherwise the anti-Muslim bigotry bill. They're trying any way they can and because democracy is pushing back against them because of freedom of speech, thankfully,

they're coming, they're relying on lawyers. We've got nothing to do. Because of our two-tier justice system. Because of our two-tier justice system. Can I finish my word case? You've been speaking for a while. Because of our two-tier justice system, we're having judges actually consider whether we are offending the institution of Islam because of things like this. That's crazy. Which is Abbas. It doesn't sound like you believe in free speech. We are believing free speech, absolutely, but free speech where it goes. Not a freedom of insult.

Freedom of speech goes until some of which comes to freedom of insult. When it's coming, there is a different. But I have a right to insult your religion, don't I. And I have a right to take it to court for the suicide. For what? You will see because you are, for example, you are disrespecting me. If you disrespect. Isn't it better to have a debate like this and actually try and hammer the issues out

rather than just try and shut people down by suing them? Of course we can. Of course we can. Some people telling me, Muhammad was a that, that, that. She said, I've got 19 to a, a child matter, said, it passed. But somebody, if you come and, you know, main thing is sometimes you're insulting the people is worse than it putting a knife on them. Really?

Really? Of course. You haven't been insulted. In that much you're sitting in there here. But see, I think that's why we see so much violence from Islamists. No, it's not a violence. Because if you're taught that it is worse to put down the Prophet Muhammad than actually stab people, you must understand. That's why so many Islamists are going to stab people. And that's a terrible path to go down.

I think Dr. Ramsey, you really need to be telling your people, you're Islamist people. No, we're in the Western world. We're allowed to debate religion. It's actually fine to do that. We are allowed to debate religion. I'm ahead of the head of the interfaith. But how can you say,

but how can you say it's worse to put down the Prophet Muhammad than actually be stabbed? That is shocking. Ben, when I told you, I told you, is I told you the first time which we came, I said, do not, you, you kick my mother's backside. You kick my back side. You slap my face, but don't talk against my prophet

because it's my everything. But he's not off limit. When you're doing it, when you're doing it, when you do in it, when you do in it, you know, I remember, I remember the Pope said, pop, pop, pop himself in the, in the, in the, in the airplane said, if somebody, somebody's, somebody done to that, give him a dad. That's, go and have a look. So what, stab them? No, give him a dad.

Give him a, but what are you saying? Someone should be physically attacked if they put down the problem. That's what he's saying. Whatever I'm asking you. I'm saying, no, it is not, I'm saying, take him to. core. Nerea. To law.

Please come in. He would rather do something else. But because you're constrained, he's saying take them to court. Your profit in a liberal democracy is not off limits. I can insult Islam. I can also question Muhammad. But you've heard Islam Islam. Should she be punished for that?

For what? Putting down your religion? No, not really. She's already doing it in television. But you can't do anything to me now because the carper is rolling. I didn't want to do it. You weren't trying to... In your heart, what do you feel towards me?

You want to kill me. Nothing. Kill you for what? For a result of your profit. One less... No, no, no, no. Not at all. I don't take you to court because you have not enough experience or even knowledge, which we can say.

Of course, some people say that. Some people tolerate. Some people tolerate. Thankfully. But the people that don't tolerate, Dan. Be some people are tolerated. We are tolerated. What are toleration got to...

But I am a person. If you say, so you, you, you, you, you, you, you, insoled my God. But she lived through it. She didn't, she didn't, she didn't through it. Thank you for invalidating my entire life. She went, she was in the, in the group, she was in the tribe. The tribe is bad.

And what are you in? Pakistan is bad and I put in Islam. Everything put in Islam. But I grew up in Saudi Arabia and Dubai and Britain. That's the worst places. That's the worst places. What Saudi Arabia, Dubai and Britain are the worst places? The worst Saudi Arabia is the worst.

Dubai? Worst place. Britain. Britain is good. Britain is the... Now, what I'm telling you, what... Why? Why?

Why? Why? It's a server. Go and service. Yeah. Why? In the 40 years, I'm here. I'm here as a Muslim missionary.

At least 600 women came to Islam with us. If you look at the... How many came to Islam? Islam, you see, majority are women. That doesn't prove anything. We have Western liberal women. and something for Islam all the time. Why?

Many things you want to do. Many people like Nouria bringing here and they shut Islam, you cannot. Would you welcome Norea back into Islam? If you want to come, she's welcome. Welcome. Absolutely not.

No, no. He's asking me. I say, God, until you blow your eyes, have you closed your eyes, until you die. Until you die, I accept you back. Their mission is to get us all back into it. Islam. The best thing you can ever do is to bring us back into the fold because until then if I'm vocal about Islam and I'm vocal about Muhammad and how deplorable Islam is and depraved

a religion it is, I'm causing mischief in the land. So they would want to do anything to silence me to bring me back. Does she make you angry, Dr. Ramsey? Who? Nerea? A little bit. You're hiding it very well because I can, I know. Are you afraid? She just, what? A little bit more angry for what? I saw thousands of these. I saw thousands of these which are slamming me. in the middle of the center. I say, I know. I so many come and say,

come, come, come, come here, somebody coming over the, especially my face. Esper, if you am I blest you, God bless you, God bless you. And after that, I talked to the number one, which the people were insulting,

the television, one, people insulting, insult the prophet, I said, God bless you, God bless you, everybody got, and you know what he said, the last one you can't you can look at it I'm too he said God bless you too you come right God bless you I know God is how lovely and of course have a look that's what I'm saying is it is a kind and I say God bless you and may God bring you to best you want to do can I say something please please you've spoken a lot no again you said broken a lot no you say don't

why are you getting angry at that it's not rude I'm just saying can I please have a moment like you keep saying God bless you we I understand that but I'm trying to say You would have incurred the wrath of a lot of Muslims today if they're watching this because you have allowed trans people into Islam. You have not said that insulting the Prophet is a big deal or you take them to court. Most Muslims, like even Ahmad Yacoub's ilk, have said they would lay down their life for the Prophet. And so most of the street preachers we see, even the preachers like Muhammad Hijab have said, you insult our Prophet, that's the red line. So I'm very grateful again, you're not going to leave the studio and stab me. but many of your fellow Muslims would want to.

What are you talking about? What are you talking about? I'm talking about Muslims who say they will lay their life on their line of their prophet. You are already telling me, you're already telling me you cannot go outside because everybody going to attack you. I said, just five minutes ago, everybody, you said, you said, they're welcome. Yes, trans, trans, look, trans, welcome to Islam. Look, is it saying, now, now, what Almighty God says in the Holy God. He talks about trans?

Again. See, see, this is wild to me. This is beyond belief. In Allah, la you're not, la yehferu, Allah, Allah, Allah,

Allah, I can't remember, I said at the moment because she's just Japer and Iran. Allah, does not, yes, yes. I can say you're yapper in Iran.

Allah does not forgive the people, the people who are bringing a partner to it and they forgive anyone else's who loves and anyone is dependent on Dr. Ramsey. Dr. Ramsey.

Dr. Ramsey. And you have for the, you have for a maudunizal like me a mania shaw. Dr. Ramsey, you can say. I put it to you. Yes. But you're not telling the full truth and that you're practicing Tequia today.

Tequia? Mm-hmm. Taquia. Taquia is because it's something else's. What do you mean? I mean... I mean... Well, I don't think you're telling the truth

about trans people and gay people being welcome. And I think, and I think, I think, I think, I think, I think to Kea is all about trying to lie about what Islam is really about in order to try and pull the wool over people's eyes and shut down criticism. Not really. I'm not a little bit though. A little bit though. Again, not even at that time, I put the hand, hand on the name of course. Now, even in that time, I am telling the truth. I said, it is my opinion. Is my opinion as a scholar? I said, all welcome. And I said, five people came to us. Five trans came to Islam and I put him there and they are there.

But you're not denying that Takea is practiced by Muslim people. Taqqiya is a different. Taqiya, for example, you're talking to Taqa. It's something, for example, if you're Ahmadiyya and they're coming to the Sunnis, you say, what are you? You say, I'm a Sunni. You don't say I'm Ahmadia because they know. Yes, you're allowed to lie.

No, you're allowed to lie. It's not a matter of lying. The people want to, for example, do that. There is no problem. Nerea, do you think he's practicing, Takeda? So, Takia is very much for kind of when your life is on the line and things like that in extreme circumstances. But there are, there's so many categories of lying within Islam that if we're taking what Dr. Ramsey is alluding to, it's the Sunni version is to, if you're in a state of war, or if you're trying to keep the peace, you're trying to delude your opponent or the enemy, you're allowed to obfuscate, you're allowed to bend the truth, you're allowed to. you know, hold back on set.

For the good of this. White lies. You'd like to give us little white lies to, you know, love them in and say it's true. So you're doing that today, aren't you? Because, come on. No, no.

No, no. If you're not doing at all. You know trans people are not welcome in the mosques of East London. Come on. Come on. Just tell the truth. This is outspoken.

We tell the truth. Trans people are not welcome in the mosques. No, no. If you shot a little bit more, maybe I do. Maybe I say. If you shout a bit more, maybe I say. You'll be honest. Yeah.

I was honest, I put the name on the God, I put my hand on the God, I said five people come to Islam, I said they will come to Islam and I gave you the, gave you the verse. In Allah Allah, la, la, yeah, chakur. Man you shikubhah, God, do not, do not forgive anyone who is bringing a partner to him and forgive anybody else's, anybody else's. Murderer, murder are. They just, they say, oh, my, almighty God, I did a murder. He doesn't say, he can get punished and he can get punished. Trans, nothing wrong with trans people. What is this verse your coaching got to do with trans people?

Again, I said, that's it. No, no, no, trans. Mahdo, Dalek, that means God, God will decide for them. Not me. Who am I to decide which trans bad or right? Who am I decide the gay is bad or right? Who am I decide that this person is bad or right? Well, Mohammed said gay people were wrong.

He gave the example of Prophet laws. Allow me to tell you. Allow me to tell you. simple one thing. Somebody, somebody, somebody was, when it was a war, the Prophet, said, had a war,

somebody was, somebody was said, they wanted to kill him, he said, there is no God to accept Allah, there is no God except Allah, and they kill him. They kill him,

and they, and they, they, they're gone to the Prophet, said, he said, why did he kill him? He said,

well, he was, he was trying to save his life. He said, how do you know his heart? How did you know his heart is not a right to think that you are, not allowed to win this.

Therefore, this is the way where she goes. I don't know. Maybe that transport tomorrow comes all right. Maybe that trans, tomorrow comes down. I don't know. What I'm saying, you have a right. And Almighty God says, here, I forgive, don't forgive anybody who is bringing a partner for me. And forgive anybody else's if I like.

So to sum up, to sum up, Islam is absolutely the religion of peace. Absolutely. Gaming are welcome. Women are welcome. They don't have to wear burkas or anything like that. And all of these terrorists, they're just bad apples. And you've just got so many of them, but they're just bad apples. Bad apples.

Okay. Fascinating debate. Naria, do you want to have any final question to Dr. Ramsey before we go? Yes. I worry for your general label as a Muslim after this conversation. I think because you bent. I worry, worry for yourself. Shall we do some da in Allah, Allah, Mahalakha.

And sorry, but... Speaking over women, this is Islam for you, ladies and gents. This is it. lying about Islam, bending the truth, saying everybody is welcome. When you say the magic Arabic words to convert, the reality of Islam will hit you. It's like Hotel California. There's a way in, but there's no way out. Gorgeous people of here, this country, or we are all gorgeous, you are all, or good people of God.

Doesn't matter. You're dismay. Everybody got some difficulties, something wrong with them, including myself. I'm lowest of the low. But God bless you all. Look up to yourself. stay healthy stay brother

and sister all we are one race is a human race God bless you all and let's bring it together all let's eat together let's be in especially in and stay away from Islam

UK UK human so you want the UK to become Islam is what you're saying Of course I'm a I'm a as I said I'm a Muslim missionary

and of course I love to be and I've met many many many archbishops I said, I love you be Muslim. So you want the UK to become Muslim? Not UK to be Muslim.

UK will be the Muslim, the first religion going to be Islam. But UK, if you want to be a nation of Islam or Muslim, they have to be through the democracies. When do you think it will be the first religion of this country? Very soon, because what is happening at the moment, if you allow me to say, 2001, the Christian at the moment, Christian at the moment is 17. Christian was 77%

come in 2010 the Christian come up with the 57 and 2021 coming to 46 46 damage It's half-thraffing His drop It's terrifying

Therefore the people who are there The people who are there They are unaffiliated this They are standing by the Christian And final question And the Islam Islam at that time was 3%

Now 6 and 1⁄2% And of course If you look at it You look at it. You're taking over, absolutely. There is a takerover. No, it's not taking over. Islam will grow.

Sorry, final question, but this is a very important question. Have you met King Charles? Of course. Do you believe that he is a proponent for Islam? Because this is something that a lot... What do you mean proponent? Well, he seems to be pushing Islam

more than he has Christianity these days. He likes a domain. Good money is. Tell me, what's he said to you about Islam? What do you say to me? Islam like a Christianity, like a Judaism, he put the hat of the Judaism goes forward, he put the hat of Christianity goes to the mosque,

and he put the hat of, sorry, a hat of Christianity, go to the church and he put the hat of the, and he is the head of the, of the church. And we respect him. But he's sympathetic to Islam. He's simply, if he's sympathetic to Islam or whatever, sympathetic to all.

But what did he say to you? Dr. Ramsey, we love you. Simple as that. Doesn't mean he goes to the mosque, he goes to the synagogue. Even though you're sitting here saying Islam is going to become the number one religion. Islam will be now, not become, Islam will be. It's not a number one religion. But then we're not a Christian country anymore.

No, it's not a Christian country at the moment. It's a secular country. It's a secular. Well, no, because the king, who is the head of state is the head of the church of England. When Islam comes first, doesn't make any different. Doesn't make any different with that. And you don't think, do you think King Charles is worried about that? I don't think he's got lots of different more worries.

He's a good king. He's an excellent king. You would say that. I like him very much. And I like Her Majesty. Many times I submit Her Majesty. I love to. And she was so good and she knew.

But because I was, because I was a head of the thing. And I wrote to him when the, when the, allow me to sell you, when the Richard Dawkins took over. took over and destroyed the Christianity. I wrote to her majesty. She knew, she got the arch of, I said, Your Majesty, you're a head of the church. What is he doing here?

She was a proud Christian. She was proud. And she wrote and something, and he got, he got, what was this called? He went out, resigned or he comes. Yes. Yeah, he done. And her majesty was as a great, great lady.

And of course, we all respected Christianity. I own and I would like Hand in heart But you still want to take over As the number one religion Not take over Not take over Well you want to become the number one religion

That is taking over Is a Muslim missionary Yeah Most we are most And you're expanding Not you Your numbers are expanding Well absolutely

It is not because It is not because that It is because of the fertility Of the Christianity Yes Is a 1.1.1.7 Fetility That means

The proper fertility to replace has to be 2.1, therefore it goes down and the fertility of Muslim is a 2.7. Yes, but it's a demographic takeover. It is a demographic takeover. If it's the one a takeover, it's not a takeover, it's going to do nothing.

It's not a, I'm taking over, taking a war. I love to, he'll be, here. Well, no, Muslims are having lots more children. I love to be here. He's, is Islamic and be a center, center for Islam. But just to be very clear.

Center for Islam for all the Islamic countries. Center. In the UK. In the UK be sent, and after that, you will be peace coming to the Islam and peace coming to the, all the Christian all the way. And what happened? I'm glad you're being honest about this. I'm glad you're being honest about this. It's very important.

Can I just ask finally, what year do you think for sure the Islam faith will be bigger than Christianity? It's a calculation. I'm sure the, what is called? Are you talking in the, talking in? a decade's time? Not decades. Two decades. If you are talking about it,

we are 6 million, 6 million Muslim, more or less, 6 million Muslim, if you come every 10 years, double, and depend on how declining the Christianity, which I'm very sad. No, you're not. Hand in the heart. I tell you.

No, you're not. Why not? Because Christian, I first said, so you don't want Christians to convert to Islam. So you don't want Christians to convert to Islam? They welcome. Yes, you do. But, You do. I don't want to go away.

I say, if we can help you, let's help you. Christian and Muslim, I said, is a one. It's a one together. We are not against Christianity. We love Christianity. Okay. We love Christianity. There's no problem.

But you still, you do want Christians to convert to become Muslims. You do. Not Christians. It's not Christians. We got the 22 million people, which they are unaffiliated. Unaffiliated. Unaffiliated. The better people.

I appreciate your honesty. Allow me to tell you that. When they're coming, when they're coming to talk to me, the Christian and I said, please, don't talk to me. I'm converted. What do you need to do? Get there 22 million people which Richard Dawkins destroyed. I've been several times talking to debate with Richard Dawkins. And what happened?

I said, get these ones inside the church and they don't go in. And if you don't want them, let them come to us because it is. better to believe in God than they're going to be an atheist. That's what I say. And I say, the rich of God of Islam, definitely not the God of Islam. Wow. Well, look. God of Islam, God of Islam said, this is been a fascinating conversation.

Yava is God of Islam. No, he's not. No he's God of Islam. They would argue it's not the same God. He knows. No Christian would agree with you. I am telling you these are God of Islam. I don't know.

Al-Shada is a God of God of Islam. Aroui is a God of Islam. Adonah is God of Islam. It's all God of Islam. In So far, it's the God of Islam. So much Islam. Of course, you do know what this is in so far. In so forth, that means the God, infinite, infinite, infinite God is a Kabbalastic.

Kabbalastic for the Jewish. These are for the Jewish. And they respect all of them. Christianity, Muslim, Islam is one. This has been a fascinating, illuminating conversation. I appreciate your honesty because at the end of the day, you're making it clear. you believe that Islam should be the number one religion and that you have a path to get there.

I'm a missionary. I get it. A world should be Islam. I appreciate the honest. And the Christian is the same. All world be Islamic and Christians are saying. And the most terrifying thing is that in my view, as a Christian man, and with the belief that this should be a Christian country,

is that you genuinely believe, yeah, but you genuinely believe that the UK should be the Islamic hub for the world. Not should be. I say yes. If it be a center of the center of the world. The center of the, again, I said, if it is a democratic country, has to decide, the people decide. But you believe that we will end up being the center of the Islamic world. We are going to be the first.

But if they want to come, there's a democracy. And if, I say, if it becomes so beautiful, what is happening? The Islam coming here, the top scholars here and rule the world, rule the world of Islam. And nobody can fight here, fight there, give a different fatwa, give a different, Can't think of anything worse. And when the UK come to Islam, the France is next one. That next one. Oh, so you colonized like you did to all of North Africa and the rest of the every place that Islam has ever read.

I'm trying to. If the UK come to Islam, the peace will come to the world. UK. And until then, we'll still be blown up. God bless you all. Well, I think people will be very scared. But look, I appreciate the debate. I appreciate the discussion.

Sheikh Ramsey is, of course, one of our top. Islamic scholars in the UK. He is the director of the Oxford Islamic Information Center, which of course is part of Oxford University. And Nariah Khan is, of course, one of the bravest women in this country because she got out of Islam and now blows the whistle on its practices. But I do appreciate you both. The last thing I tell you, she is very good for that because I told Richard Dawkins, I told God put you God will put you to there

because they said, they said, Christian is about that, that, that. I said, God put you to that. God bless you, God put you. If you didn't, all these, these bishop and archbishop

that's just going like that. Now they take in and digging, digging, digging, digging, digging, digging, digging, digging, and what she says, you okay? The Muslim woman, digging, digging, digging, dig, oh, no, no, oh, that,

and bring you good. You understand what I'm saying? She thinks she is doing it. She is helping the Islam in the negative way. I understand what you're saying. We're moving over to Substack now for the Royal Uncanceled After Show. You can join us there at www.

Can I say one more time? God bless you all. And please show it. God bless you all. Nothing has been innocent from this show. All of you, gorgeous people of God. This show is called Outspoken. We edit nothing, okay?

They'll kill you with a smile. Just remember that. Oh, I do remember. I do remember it. And I think this has been very illuminating. Thank you so much for your company today. We are back every weekday, 5 p.m. UK time, midday, Midday Eastern 9am Pacific.

Please do hit subscribe right now on YouTube. Turn on the notification bell. You can also subscribe to us as a podcast on Apple Podcasts on Spotify too. Can I give that word of God? Please show it. Is this a discovery of something? Is it one of my book? Discovery is a step towards a peaceful eternity in paradise.

Excellent. With no green birds. Excellent. But no green birds, no, no, no, no green birds. No green birds. I promise to keep fighting for you.