Dan Wootton Outspoken - AYAAN HIRSI ALI SPEAKS OUT ON NIGEL FARAGE, ELON MUSK, KEIR STARMER & PLOT TO DESTROY UK

Episode Date: October 5, 2024

Dan hosts a very special interview with one of the most outspoken women in the world, whose bravery standing up against extreme Islam has seen her one of the most hunted women in the world, with multiple fatwas on her head. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who was born in Somalia and lived throughout Africa and the Middle East, where she was radicalised as a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, received political asylum in the Netherlands, where she renounced the Islamic faith following the 9/11 terror attacks. She then became a leading figure in Dutch politics, serving alongside Geert Wilders in the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy. Just a year after being elected in 2003, she made a film about the oppression of women in Islam called Submission. Its director Theo Van Gogh was brutally murdered in a terror attack by a Moroccan-Dutch Islamic terrorist. The note placed on his body said he was coming for Ayaan next, resulting in years in hiding. She moved to the United States, becoming one of the world’s most high profile writers and activists, publishing books including Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now, and launching her own media venture The Ayaan Hirsi Ali Podcast. Having been one of the most famous atheists, until last year when she revealed she had converted to Christianity in a column for Unherd. Everything Ayaan does is about saving the west from itself. Woke ideology is the most dangerous in the world. Multiculturalism has failed. Our globalist leaders want to reduce us to rubble. Ayaan will express the unspeakable, with the experience of someone who has lived extreme Islam, with all its dire consequences. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There are very few things that you can be certain of in life. But you can always be sure the sun will rise each morning. You can bet your bottom dollar that you'll always need air to breathe and water to drink. And, of course, you can rest assured that with Public Mobile's 5G subscription phone plans, you'll pay the same thing every month. With all of the mysteries that life has to offer, a few certainties can really go a long way. Subscribe today for the peace of mind you've been searching for. Public Mobile. Different is calling. When does fast grocery delivery through

Instacart matter most? When your famous grainy mustard potato salad isn't so famous without the grainy mustard. When the barbecue's lit, but there's nothing to grill. When the in-laws decide that, actually, they will stay for dinner. Instacart has all your groceries covered this summer. So download the app and get delivery in as fast as 60 minutes. Plus enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over deliver. No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wooten. This is Outspoken Live, episode number 66. And to support this brand new independent news venture, please hit subscribe right now and turn on your notification bells. Also very excited to say that Outspoken is available as a podcast.

You can listen to us wherever you are on the go. I've put the links in the show notes, but please do sign up, subscribe, totally free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Today, a very special interview with one of the most outspoken women in the world, whose bravery standing up against extreme Islam has seen her become one of the most hunted women in the world too. She has multiple fatwas on her head. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who was born in Somalia and lived throughout Africa and the Middle East, where she was radicalised as a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, received political asylum in the Netherlands, where she renounced the Islamic faith following the 9-11 terror attacks.

She then became a leading figure in Dutch politics, serving alongside Geert Wilders and the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy. Just a year after being elected in 2003, she made a film about the oppression of women in Islam called Submission. Its director, Theo Van Gogh, was brutally murdered in a terror attack by a Moroccan Dutch Islamist terrorist. The note placed on his body said he was coming for IR next, which resulted her going into hiding for years. She eventually moved to the United States, becoming one of the world's most high-profile writers and activists and publishing books, including Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now. She's also launched her own media venture, the Ayaan Hirsh Ali podcast. Having been one of the most famous atheists on the globe, too, until last year,

when she revealed she had converted to Christianity, She has now decided that that is the best way to fight Islam extremism. So what I would say is that everything Ayaan does is about saving the West from itself. Woke ideology is the most dangerous ideology in the world. Multiculturalism has failed. Our globalist leaders want to reduce us to rubble, Ayaan will express the unspeakable with the experience of someone who has lived extreme Islam with all its dire consequences. And I am delighted to have her today for the uncancelled interview. Let's go. I am Hersey Ali. Well, this show is called Outspoken, and I can't think of a better guest because you have been outspoken in a way that has put your security, your own life at threat for many, many years. And I hope you don't mind, but I want to

talk first about what is going on in the UK, because you have been such an important voice against extremism now for the past two decades. And what we're seeing here is a destruction of our society. Yet anyone who seems to challenge what's happening or questions the narrative is now immediately branded as far right. And I watched last week our Home Secretary at the Labour Party conference spend an hour talking about the threat of the so-called riots that we had in the UK after the Southport massacre, and not mention once the growing threat of Islamic extremism, which we know through MI5 is by far the bigger threat to Brits. So what is your take on what is happening here in the UK?

Well, first of all, it's lovely to meet you, Dan, and thank you very much for having me on. I'm so glad to have you. I think it's how you frame the problem. And what's interesting about your question, it is, you know, when you asked your question, you said what's happening in the UK. And I really want to reframe it and say what's happening in Europe,

what's happening in the West in relation to what we label immigration and the presence of Islam. And what I see, let's stick with the UK as an example, but it's happening in France and in Germany, in the US, all across the West. What you have is an ideological approach to having people leave poor countries, third world countries, and come to Europe or so-called rich countries. Rich countries are actually not rich anymore. 30 years ago, you could argue that Britain was rich. But today, Britain is not a rich country. And so you have an ideological drive to attract immigrants,

to attract people from poor countries to rich countries, alongside a practical approach, which is, look, our economy needs immigrants. The sorts of immigrants that the economy needs are not the people who are coming in large numbers. And then you have the reaction from the host society to this unplanned, uncoordinated, crazy immigration, just large numbers of people coming in and asking for asylum. And sometimes they're, often they're rejected, but the rejection doesn't amount to anything because they don't leave the country. And the push factors, the issues that are pushing them away from their homelands are getting bigger and bigger. People come from Africa, from the Middle East, from South Asia, countries that are poorly run, terrible economies, with conflicts, societies that are breaking down. And so you understand why it's attractive for young men living in these parts of the world to want to go somewhere else. Then you have to look at the whole factors.

And in particular, look at the welfare society, the welfare arrangements that so-called rich countries like Britain have, which if you're living in a poor country, if you're told over social media and over any kind of correspondence with the relatives that you come here, you can count off free housing, free education, free health care, free anything and free everything. And you have no clue who's paying for this. It's just free. And you are told by the people smugglers, if you pay me a little bit, I'll get you across this border, that channel, and I'll get you in. And then you have the ideological left that has this elaborate set of NGOs, non-governmental organizations, that are incentivized to keep the problem going. Because if they solve the problem, then they don't have jobs. They don't have a source of income. And at the very end, you have a huge unintended,

negative unintended consequence of this movement of populations from poor countries to rich countries. And almost all of it, all the negative stuff lands on the shoulders of the poor and the working class whites. And when they protest, and the only ways that they're able to protest is actually to vote. And if you look at every country, what many of these people have been doing is simply voting for the parties and the political leaders who say immigration is a problem and we're going to do something about it. So then they are labelled xenophobic and far-right.

But even worse, Ayaan, in in the uk if you voted for those parties which we have the conservative party which pledged to bring immigration down to the tens of thousands the vote for brexit so that we could take back control of our borders so actually our democratic vote has been completely ignored as well so we actually don't even have that to fall back on, which I believe is why there is this bubbling anger. There's this bubbling anger where people who are negatively affected by this form of immigration, some people rightfully call it an invasion. I do.

People who are negatively affected by this sort of immigration have their backs to the wall. Voting doesn't help. Their voice is meaningless in the sense of nothing. This is election after election after election. They see that nothing happens. The problems get worse. They get more and more immigrants put amongst them. And I think, Dan, part of this is that there is this, you saw it with Brexit, there's this cleavage, this,

I'd say, disconnection between the people who make the decisions, so-called elite, and the people who are governed. And the people who make the decisions don't seem to be affected by the negative consequences of immigration. They don't understand it. They don't live in the neighborhoods. It's not their children's schools that are affected. They don't understand it. They don't live in the neighborhoods. It's not their children's schools that are affected. They don't have to stand and wait in line for very limited healthcare resources. They're not affected by the crime. They're not affected by the crime. So they can sit in their sort of wonderful, comfortable homes and offices and preach to

the general public about being generous and open and cosmopolitan and all these other reasons so that they put together to say, here's why we can continue these policies or here's why we ignore you, because that's really what it is. It's ignoring the general population. But then alongside that, alongside just immigration in general that has negative consequences, is the rise of radical Islam. And it is the entrenchment of, in particular, the Muslim Brotherhood. This is a force that wants to transform the countries that it has established itself in. It wants to transform Britain from being an open, liberal,

democratic society to a Sharia-based society. They have put down mosques in Islamic centres and schools. They have taken down whole neighbourhoods, and they think that they can get their message across and transform the population and the reality in Britain through more immigration and through demands that they make that the same politicians give to them that they don't give to the white-fucking class. So the social cohesion, this immigration is affecting negatively the social cohesion between the people who lived in this country, in the host society, and the immigrants who come. And on top of that, radical political Islam is also driving a wedge between people, between

politicians and the people they govern over. It's a hot mess. It's a hot mess. It is a hot mess. No, indeed, it is. Because the thing is, you have this elite class that you talk about, Ayaan, and actually, even if you now question extreme Islam. So, for example, as a gay man, I don't feel comfortable with lots of the tenets of this religion.

And I have spoken to those who have been de-radicalized, having been born in the UK. And they are told in their teachings just down the road from where I used to live in East London, that gay men should be shoved off the top of buildings. This is not some sort of exaggeration. This is actually going on in the UK today. And a lot of these folk are UK born. But we have a new government, Ayaan, that actually wants to make me even saying that illegal because of the talk of the introduction of Islamophobia to actually become hate speech, to actually be something that you could be arrested for. So it feels like everything the mechanisms of the establishment do are to push down and actually stop any discussion about exactly what you've just outlined. I think there is, and again, there is the establishment,

sort of what you might think of as a system or the system, and then the individuals that operate within it. And so, of course, individual politicians do listen to the population and they do raise the issues that you're raising, the intolerance among Islamists, the numbers, the scale of the immigration and the scope of it, the breakdown in the integration process that just never happens. But then those individual politicians, individuals within the media, they are shut down by a system that on an ideological level either wants this thing to continue or has reached a point where it really doesn't have an answer and is worried that any kind of conversation about the problem may break the system down. I think that there's this deep-seated fear that if we talk honestly and openly about the problems that are emanating from this unwanted large-scale immigration,

the rise of radical Islam, this incredibly terrible tension and this rising tension between Muslims who are extreme and non-Muslims who are affected like the gay communities, like women, like the Jewish community, that if we have these conversations, that we're going to make the problem worse. So the system wants to control things. And the only way that they can control things is to shut down conversation. This is the shutting down of the freedom of speech. But it's not going to work. It's all going to go underground and the tension is just going to build and build. And we know from history when you get that level of tension build up,

that is resentment between groups of communities within an established nation. But the things really do get out of control. And I think there is a very real risk that the extremes, whether they are the extreme right-wing or the extreme jihadists, are going to hijack reality and they're going to go at each other and the establishment is going to be squeezed out and we'll be onlookers, looking really, really bad and being ineffective. And you see this in many different places.

Elon Musk used the term civil war. He thinks that's inevitably coming to the UK. Where do you stand on that? Your local Benjamin Moore retailer is more than a paint expert. They're someone with paint in their soul. A sixth sense honed over decades. And if you have a question about paint, it's almost as if they can read your mind.

I sense you need a two inch angle brush for the trim in your family room. Regal selected an eggshell finish and directions to the post office. Benjamin Moore paint is only sold at locally owned stores. Benjamin Moore, see the love. I think Elon Musk is giving us a warning. He obviously has lived in Africa.

I also come from Africa. Yes, which I want to talk about. I think what we share is if you have this accumulation of resentment between different groups within society, and the tension just keeps going up and up, it's highly likely that they will go at one another. And it is absolutely right. I don't know if Elon said this or not, but what we call multiculturalism, this fantasy that you have groups of different religions and cultures that are beautifully coexisting alongside one another and doing this peacefully, that's just a fantasy. That has failed. Angela Merkel had said it. David Cameron had said it. We know that there is no such a thing as multiculturalism. The reality is we have these multi-ethnic communities

that are living alongside one another. And then there is this religious community, and not every Muslim is a problem. It's absolutely untrue to say all Muslims are a problem. That's not the case but there is an organized political Islam that is very aggressive and that will not rest until it dominates and that group is playing with fire they are antagonizing the local populations this happened in the former Yugoslavia and I I'm old enough to know, and so is

Elon, and so are a number of people who have known exactly where that led. So if you want to prevent something like that from happening in Britain and in France and in Germany, you better address these issues. The sooner we address these issues, the better. The sooner we articulate that Britain is never ever going to be a Muslim country. It's never going to have Sharia as its laws and its norms, that we have our own norms and our own culture and our laws and our way of doing things. And that you have to, you coming from outside, you have to abide by those laws or leave. The sooner we start to articulate this and enforce it, I think the sooner we can avoid disaster. But Ayaan, our new prime minister, Keir Starmer, has branded people who have said just that, including people like me, by the way, a centrist, really,

or at least considered a centrist a few years ago, as being part of the far right. He says you're just a snake oil salesperson. Yeah. These accusations of far right and racist and so on, they're losing their potency. You know, 10 years ago, if you called someone a racist, they would think about committing suicide. That was how harsh this time was. It's the kind of power it had. It was like a spell, but that spell is broken. who's using the word racist or xenophobe or Islamophobe, that they are the ones who are corrupt or inept and incompetent. And it is this combination of ideology, ineptitude and

corruption that has brought us where we are. And Keir Starmer and his government are either incompetent, they don't know what to do, and they do have, in many ways, you can see the UK government doesn't seem to be up to the job of governing, not just on the immigration issue, but you can see it in other areas as well. But amongst them, they also have ideological groups, and I want to name two of them. Please. The Reds and the Greens. They have the Greens, the Islamists, who voted for Labour as a means of getting to the next step in what they think of as the Islamisation process of Britain.

And then, of course, you have these Reds, the ones who, communists, Marxists, the woke, who believe that Britain itself is a product of exploitation and oppression and has to be brought down. The system has to be dismantled and deconstructed. So the radical left on the side of Labour. So Labour, the Labour Party, like other left-wing parties all across the West, is a home to these two extreme forms, the revolutionary socialists and the Islamists. And these two groups form a coalition that they call the Watermelon or the Red-Green Coalition.

And so Keir Starmer is now confronted with how to deal with these mega problems that occurred before he came into office, number one. And number two, how to deal with these extremist groups within his party. And he better have the balls to do that. Yeah, well, I don't think he does because he just wants to shut down discussion. But look, Ayaan, I want to talk about you because most people will know your story, which is absolutely inspiring. But for some of our viewers who don't, it is worth pointing out that you have such authority to talk about these issues because you were born in Somalia. You admit that you were very much part of radical Islam. In fact, even though now you're probably

the woman with the most fatwas on your head in the world, you actually supported the fatwa against Salman Rushdie when you were growing up. But you were de-radicalized after moving to or before emigrating to Europe. So you have very much seen this from both sides of the coin. And I think 9-11 was a key moment, wasn't it, in terms of your de-radicalisation process? So I don't have an authority to talk about these things because I was born in Somalia. I am like, you know, one of many, many voices who's looking at these developments that we're living through and I'm taking the position that I hold through part experience and, of course, part scholarship and part observation like all of us.

And the part that's through experience is I was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood as a teenager when the Muslim Brotherhood came into my school in Nairobi, Kenya, and convinced me and my peers that the way we practiced Islam was all wrong, and that the way we should practice Islam is the way they introduced us to practice Islam. And what they brought to us was very, very intolerant. I mean, throwing gays off rooftops. I don't remember seeing any gays around me at the time, but the fact that they needed to be thrown off rooftops is one of the things that they taught us. They made us aware of how corrupt and evil Jews are, likened them to monkeys and pigs, and said that they had to be eliminated. All of these, I got steeped in all of this along with my peers through the Muslim Brotherhood activism.

And so when I see them setting themselves up, setting up shop in various European and American cities, I know what they're teaching. And, of course, I look a little deeper than the general public. I look at the books, the sermons, you know, look at their websites, the message that they're trying to get across. And it is very, very similar to what they were feeding into the hearts and minds of my peers and me when I was a teenager. So, you know, watch out for the Muslim Brotherhood, watch out for what they teach. And it's effective.

People start acting on it. And I remember acting on it too. That is why I joined a demonstration to burn Salman Rushdie's book, a satanic verse, without ever reading it, without ever setting eyes on it. And I think this is what Westerners do not understand. If you have young people who are seeking direction and a meaning and a purpose in life, and they find that in their religion, and they find religious leadership that tells them this is how to practice your religion, they start doing that, especially young men. And so it's not that young men are spontaneously turning their backs on British values. It's because they are told to do that.

And then when you have open borders and you keep getting larger numbers of people, especially from Muslim countries, and the only group that's active enough that's drawing them into the mosques, drawing them into these Muslim centers, are members of the Muslim Brotherhood that are turning their heads. I mean, it is interesting to see that you'll find so-called moderates or non-practicing Muslims come from Syria and Afghanistan, then get radicalized in British mosques and other European mosques. Then you know that you're doing something wrong. And so this is what I am observing,

and I know that it's going to lead up to no good. The fact that we have the al-Shabaab linked to Al-Qaeda, which is a militant force in Somalia. In 1985, in the 1980s, something like that was unthinkable. Most Somalis would say, no, we don't do that. That's the sort of thing that Arabs do in the Middle East. But we are not Arabs, we are Somalis. And yet, when you have these madrasas that get the opportunity to indoctrinate young hearts and minds, they get them to act like they got people to join al-Shabaab, to join ISIS, to join al-Qaeda, to join Hamas. This has happened over and over and over again. Why would it not happen in Europe? It has happened in Europe.

We've had several terrorist attacks. There are lots of plots that today are being foiled. There's a huge number of people that the intelligence offices are following. So the problem is happening here. But let's not just focus on the violent aspects of it. Let's also focus on the rest of their agenda, which is the Islamization agenda, which is to change neighborhoods so that they're Sharia compliant, to get young women to be shamed to the point that they cover themselves. They don't want to cover themselves,

but if their whole neighborhood changes, it's like, well, I wouldn't be able to live in this house, this neighborhood, unless I become like them. Look at these developments and look at them through the eyes of people like me and people who've come from the countries that we are fleeing. We're fleeing these countries because of Sharia law. OK, and so you have to, as European decision makers, European media, European politicians think we don't want this sort of thing to develop here. If we're going to attract immigrants to Britain, then we're going to select for those people who will be a part of our economy, a part of our culture. We don't seem to have any problems with, say, the Indian communities, the Hindu communities, communities that come from Brazil, Latin America. Why is it that we seem to have problems almost exclusively with the Muslim communities? And the thing is, it is happening already in London, Ayaan.

I used to live in Whitechapel. There are now parts of Whitechapel, East London, that do practice Sharia law. I know that for a fact. I've spoken to the people who've been in the mosques and have been de-radicalised. So it is going on, even though the politicians try and tell us that it's not. And to talk about it makes you far right. But I will talk about the political solution in just a moment, because you were obviously... It doesn't make you far right. It makes the politicians deniers, and it makes the politicians incompetent, and weak, and corrupt. And I think that it is important then for citizens to stand up to their politicians and tell

them off and say, don't call me a xenophobe, don't call me a racist. You are the denier. In fact, you are the racist because politicians, by denying these problems or either giving into them, expressing the racism of low expectations, they simply don't think that Muslims are capable of rising out of this level of fanaticism and barbarism. And so they give in to them and they say, yeah, you know, Islamophobia, okay, you can have it. Sadiq Khan was talking on this video to Keir Starmer about legislating Islamophobia, basically introducing censorship.

And Keir Starmer should say to Sadiqa, no, I'm not going to do that. This is a liberal society. We don't censor our people. That would have been an expression of courage. But he didn't do that because obviously he wants the votes. Well, yes, because there's a big challenge politically to labour on the left from sectarian Muslim politicians. And in fact, I don't know if you realise this,

but they have now actually formed a party in the UK led by Jeremy Corbyn, the former Labour leader. Five of them were elected on a pro-Palestinian platform and it was Labour who they beat in those seats. So there is a clear political thread. And don't call it pro-Palestinian. We keep framing things the wrong way. This is a pro-Hamas. It's a pro-Hamas platform. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas share an ideology. of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas share an ideology. And the Muslim Brotherhood, as it's established in Britain,

wants to establish that ideology in Britain. So the party that is just formed, led by Jeremy Corbyn, is not pro-Palestinian. They don't give a hoot about the children in Gaza or in Rafah. They want to Islamize Britain. That's their goal. about the children in Gaza or in Rafah. They want to Islamize Britain. Yes. That's their goal. And that, you know, they're not talking about,

if you're a political party in Britain, why on earth would you establish, go to this great lengths to establish a political party in Britain because you want to look after the interests of people thousands of miles away. No, you guys, you need to wake up and start to educate yourself on who these people are and what they want. Oh my goodness, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. And I want to talk about the political solution through the prism of your experience in the Netherlands, where you emigrated to, and you were an early ally of Geert Wilders, who has, of course, become far more powerful

in the decade since you left the Netherlands to move to the US, but still the establishment does all it can to shut him down. So can you talk to me a little bit about your experience with Geert Wilders and what you think his political movement in the Netherlands can do now? Geert Wilders and I were both members of the VVD caucus. That's when I first met him. And I have seen him active within that caucus. This is back in 2003, 2004. And even back then, the major issue, polarizing issue, was this unwanted immigration with all its negative consequences in a small, densely populated country like the Netherlands where you can't avoid problems. And it was the rise of this type of Muslim Brotherhood Islam.

And Geert Wilders within the caucus would say, we have been elected to put a stop to this and to pass policies that assimilate those who are already here in the Netherlands and to pass policies that assimilate those who are already here in the Netherlands and have border policies that keep out those whom we don't want. Now, the VVD caucus, which is an establishment party, like all the other establishment parties in Europe, would say, we are also members of the EU. And so EU membership meant that you really didn't have, as a nation state, the last word on your borders.

So you have, like many establishment parties in countries that are members of the EU, it would be, we don't have the last word on our borders. Another big issue at the time when I was serving with Geert Wilders was the accession of Turkey to the EU, which Geert Wilders opposed and said that's going to mean floods and floods of immigrants from Muslim countries. And he used to say it's not Turkey that's going to become a part of the EU, it's the EU that's going to become a part of the EU is the EU that's going to become a party of the caliphate. And obviously using that language puts Geert Wilders into trouble.

I would say at the time, the language he used was used against him as this is not how members of parliament speak. But language aside and trivia aside he was onto something he was listening to voters he was talking he was articulating the problems of immigration the intolerance of islam i mean i was walking around since 2002 with bodyguards provided by the dutch. And so was he. And Theo van Gogh was murdered on the streets of Amsterdam by a young man radicalized in a mosque or in mosques in the Netherlands.

These are the problems that he was highlighting. Yes, and just to clarify... The establishment would respond by calling him, me. him me yeah well i was just going to say just to clarify for people who may not know theo van gogh obviously was the director of the film submission which you were behind and his murder which was an act of terror also involved his killer threatening you. So you have been at great personal threat now for two decades. Yes, and not only was I in great personal threat, anybody who highlighted and articulated the problems of the presence of radical Islam in the Netherlands,

was a victim of these threats. And for some of us, it was more intense than others, but the threat was always there. And that's also one reason why I think a lot of people simply shied away from talking about these problems, was they felt it was an immediate threat to their lives. And what we now call cancel culture, back then we used to call political correctness. So it wasn't just a threat to your personality. It was also a threat to your career and your reputation because if you spoke about these things,

the establishment punished you as being a racist and xenophobe and intolerant towards immigrants, etc. And what happened was there was the approach that Gerd Wilgers was taking, which is what he wants to implement now. This is selective immigration, which was to shut down these mosques and madrasas and so on that are now entrenched. And the other side was, no, we have to accommodate. We have to be accommodating.

And the argument that would be used would be, look at what we did to the Jews in the lead-up to the Second World War. We don't want to repeat that kind of intolerance. So the Muslims were treated as if they were the Jews of the 1930s and as if they were living through that period, which is a completely false comparison and even more aggravating because these Muslim radical Islamist leaders in the mosques and in the madrasas were calling for the elimination of Jews, calling Jews monkeys and pigs,

dehumanizing Jews in every way, shape and form, making life in Amsterdam and Rotterdam, where the Jews live, really impossible for them, and calling for the elimination of the state of Israel. So you had this irony, where this incredibly intolerant force that is anti-Semitic was being protected, quote unquote, in the name of what we may have done to the Jews in the 1930s. And Geert Wilders was obviously calling all of this out. Geert Wilders is a huge supporter of Israel.

So fast forward, he did stay in politics and he started winning elections. To this day, the last election that he was held, his party was the biggest, but the establishment is just not going to have him. So even though being prime minister of the Netherlands rightfully comes to him as leader of the largest party, they simply will not tolerate him. So they have a civil servant, you know,

some obscure person who didn't campaign, who didn't win the elections to be prime minister. And I just, like many of you, I'm looking at the Netherlands and thinking, is he really going to succeed in implementing the policies that the people want, the largest majority of Dutch who elected him, want him to implement these policies? Is he going to be able to do it or is he going to be stopped from doing it? If he's stopped from doing it, what's going to happen? Well, he will be stopped, won't he, by the globalist blob, as I call them. And I'm fascinated to take what you've just described going on in the Netherlands in the context of the UK, because you could argue that in our biggest democratic vote in history, the vote to leave the European Union, we were,

as British people, sending a clear message to the establishment that we wanted change. We wanted direct political change. Now, that hasn't happened, and you know the reasons why it hasn't happened. So we now have two big figures in the UK who are attempting to make that change happen in very different ways. And I'm interested in your views on both of them. So, of course, first, you have Nigel Farage, the Brexit king, now the leader of the Reform UK party. I think there's a genuine chance that he could be prime minister in 2029. It's going to be tough the leader of the Reform UK party. I think there's a genuine chance that he could be prime minister in 2029. It's going to be tough for all of the reasons that we've discussed, but his tactic is to do this the political way, to soften his rhetoric, to try and appease, I guess, the establishment to a degree. Then you have Tommy Robinson, the flame-throwing anti-Islam leader who doesn't want to do it by political means and wants to be on the streets and is advocating for a more radical approach.

So I'm fascinated to know your view on both Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson. So again, I don't know enough about either one of them more than just what you read in the newspapers. And of course, like many people, when the label xenophobe or far right or racist is thrown around, I find that not credible. So my instinct, my impulse is not to look at Tommy Robinson and think, oh, he's far right. I think he's labeled that way because of the issues that he's talking about and he's raising. But I think that the question you're asking is, should you do it through the political system or should you do it outside of the political system in a radical, flamethrowing way? And I don't think we have a choice in this.

I don't think you can sit there and say, you do it the radical way, you do it through that. I would choose to do it through the system. I would choose to say, first of all, it's this system that's democratic, okay, the rule of law, to the policies that we need to get to. But I think there are challenges such as the civil service. of Tory government events, that you could at some point persuade politicians to take on these issues, but they would run up when it comes to the deportation of unwanted people here, when it comes to closing the borders, when it comes to closing the mosques, when it comes to

closing these charities, they would run up against the civil service and the NGOs that would frustrate that. And so some of these issues are much, much more entrenched. I find NGOs undemocratic. They are not elected. I find my view of the civil services, they should do, they should implement the policies of those who are elected. They are not elected. And I think we have to have those confrontations with these structures, the people who are within these structures. And is Nigel Farage going to do that? I don't know. I don't know enough about him. But I do know that the population of Britain is just as fed up as the population in the Netherlands and in France and increasingly in America and so we're just heading for more and more confrontation so you might as well do it through the system and do it the rightful and peaceful way yeah no I do think that makes total sense actually what about your own personal safety now, Ayam? Because it's obviously a difficult conversation, but we saw what happened with Salman Rushdie. These extremists will not stop sometimes. So

do you still live day to day in fear of your life? I live within that protection, the bubble of protection. Obviously, security is one of the key things about security is you don't talk about it. No, totally. I understand that. Can I ask christianity because for folk who don't know after you were de-radicalized and correct me if i'm wrong in the characterization but you decided that you would embrace atheism and uh many of the themes put forward by the late, great Christopher Hitchens. But in recent years, I think it's fair to say that you have realized that actually there is a necessary power in Christianity for the West to take back control?

I think that if you want to appreciate why the West is peaceful and prosperous, and why it's a magnet for poor people in poor countries, countries that are at war, you are going to have to reflect on what is it that made the West be the envy of the world. And the foundations, we always only look at the material things. Look, the West is rich and it has this welfare states that are dishing out money. But how did we get here? Where do the moral foundations of the West lie? And sooner or later, you're going to have to get to these Judeo-Christian traditions. The West built on the philosophies of the Greeks and the Romans and Christianity.

And of course, before Christianity, the Old Testament, Judaism, the more you find out, the more I find out about the history, the political theories that gave way to these wonderful, wonderful nations that we now call the West, the more you see their Christian roots, the more you see their biblical roots. And so when you have a force, a religious force coming in, wanting to dominate and saying, you Westerners, you are decadent, you have no religious faith, the response is not to cower. The response is to say, we do have a model framework. We are Christian nations, and our Christianity is superior to what you have to offer. That's why you're here, by the way. And look at the countries that are established on Sharia law and Sharia philosophy and the

philosophy of the Prophet Muhammad or the Quran, and look at our countries. And so you don't need to lecture us about these things. But it's been very hard for the West to do this because of neglecting Christianity, because of identifying us Western or post-Christian. And it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to fight a spiritual force with material means. Is woke ideology dangerous in your view? Extremely so.

Woke ideology is perhaps the most dangerous ideology in 2024. It has to do with the time. Woke ideology is arising from within and wants to destroy. Western society, Western culture, Western institutions, everything. And it is coming about and gaining traction at a time when the West has got so many adversaries. It's got the Islamist adversary to deal with. It's got China, the CCP. It's got to deal with Putin. It's a time of great instability. And the woke ideology is causing a lot of polarization. The woke ideology has basically hijacked center-left parties. And all the institutions that are connected with center-left parties has hijacked universities and schools. So the woke ideology, first and

foremost, and it's an internal cancer. So the woke ideology, first and foremost, is the one that we have to fight with everything in us to subdue it. And it's a weak ideology because all it has to say is it wants to destroy things. Ask them, what would you like to build? What are we to expect after you've dismantled everything? I mean, take anything. Take the government system through diversity, equity and inclusion. They're bringing in the radical Islamists. They're destroying the idea you know, look at the entire justice system. They complain it's a system of injustice. They want to defund the police. They want to turn the courts. I know the story in America more than this story, but into these political tools that advance their woke agenda. We call it packing the courts. And then look at what they're doing to the schools, the humanities, which they have completely destroyed. They say

everything, white man is the oppressor, everyone else is oppressed. So the legacy of the white man is the one that has to be completely taken apart. These are very, very dangerous people with very, very dangerous ideas. And I think we have to stand up to them. And the way to do it is to preserve the freedom of speech so that we can debate with them. We can expose their ideas and we can then refuse these diversity, equity, inclusion, all these other nice sounding schemes that they bring into. We've got to take care of our Jewish population. And just from October 7 until now, the anniversary of October 7 is coming up.

It is scandalous that Jewish minorities in Europe feel as if they're living through the 1930s again because of this woke ideology and its marriage with radical Islam, the Red-Green Alliance. So woke ideology is extremely dangerous, and all of us have to unite against it. Remember liberalism. We say we are a liberal democracy. Liberalism started with this idea of protecting the individual. Before the law, you are an individual. These woke people are on about groups, they divide society

into different groups, and then they incite these groups against one another. And they incite all of these groups against the white heterosexual male. So it is racist, it's divisive. And in many ways, if you look at the gender, the transgender politics or gender politics or the climate politics, this is a ticket to primitivism. Want to be industrialized and they want to say there are no men or women. It's all one big blob of whatever they want to invent that day. So yes, woke ideology is extremely, extremely dangerous,

and you've seen what it has done. It's got cultivated, came from Europe, but it got cultivated in America, and it's now in Europe, and I hope that we have the stamina to resist it. I hope so too. And I think finally, Ayaan, we also have to be proud of our history, right? Especially in England, because one of the things that the woke mind virus wants to do

is to make us embarrassed and ashamed about so many of the great things that the British Empire brought to the world. So is it important actually that we start to embrace our history with positivity rather than the sort of shame that the proponents of woke ideology want us to feel? It's truck month at GMC. Tackle the open road with added confidence in a 2025 Sierra 1500 pro graphite at 0% financing for up to 72 months. With an available 5.3 liter V8 engine, 20-inch high-gloss black-painted aluminum wheels, off-road suspension with available 2-inch factory-installed lift kit, plus a towing capacity of up to 13,200 pounds, you'll be ready for anything this Truck Month.

Truck Month is on now. Ask your GMC dealer for details. Absolutely. When the woke ideologues run around saying the white heterosexual male is an oppressor, you've got to throw back at them that without the white man, where would we be? It's the white man who fought slavery. It's the white man who fought Hitler and stood up to him. It's the white man who builds and builds and builds and is generous enough to take all of these medicines and health care all across the world. I was 12 years old and I was 14 years old when my Quran teacher hit my head against the wall. And I was taken to a hospital we couldn't afford, the Nairobi Hospital. And the doctor who treated me was a white man from Italy, incredibly gentle.

And he did it for nothing. It was for free. That's also the white man. So you want to focus on the white man who did bad things. But that white man was subdued and overcome and taken off the stage by all the good white men who organized to do good things and where are the brown men who organized to do good things and where are the uh you know where is their toilet it's i think it's just wrong to accept these things. But it's also forcefully about why the white man is essentially a good man. I mean, up until recently, it was the white man's burden to save the world. And now we're being told he is the source of all evil.

And only if he is destroyed will justice come around because that's what the woke ideology is about. The woke ideology is this new racism against white people, and especially white males. And that is to demoralize him, to emasculate him, so that they can come and just rob this civilization and transform it into rubble. This is the thing about the woke ideology. The end game of the woke ideology into rubble. This is the thing about the woke ideology. The end game of the woke ideology is rubble. You see, the Islamists want to introduce Sharia law, and eventually that too leads to rubble through a great deal of violence.

But the woke ideology is so linear in its quest for just simple destruction. And so the white man should be smart enough to stand up to them and tell them f off sorry my language no i love it what a point to end on f off no indeed well look i think the term bravery is very much overused in society. But for me, you define it, Ayaan. I personally find you incredibly inspiring. You're a reason for us to be brave and speak up in moments when we think, oh, goodness, are we going to lose everything? Because you truly put everything on the line to fight for what was right. So I so appreciate you being here on Outspoken today. I am going to put the links to your brilliant podcast and your brilliant sub stack in the show notes.

And I really, really recommend everyone follows and subscribes because I do. And I absolutely love them. So thank you so much for being here today, Ayaan Hirshiali. Thank you. Thank you, Dan. Thank you very much. And also for your work. Yeah.

Well, at least you're one white man who's not going to be quiet. So good. No, they can't shut me up. Yeah. Thank you, Ayaan. Now, because of our special interview with Ayaan, there is no uncancelled after show today,

but it will return as normal after the main show on Monday. You know, it's very important to me that we have a safe space, not patrolled by big tech, where censorship main show on Monday. You know, it's very important to me that we have a safe space, not patrolled by big tech, where censorship and control runs deep. So that's why I launched www.outspoken.live, our membership section where you get half an hour of extra content. All you have to do is register at www.outspoken.live.

It costs just £5 for the entire entire month that's about the price of a cup of coffee in most of the uk's biggest cities that will give you the extra content but most importantly it allows me to continue making this independent news show very excited to say we're also now a podcast so please do subscribe and sign up wherever you get your podcasts but i've put the links to spotify and apple podcasts in the show notes below but if you just search for dan wootton outspoken wherever you get your podcast you can sign up and it means you can listen to us wherever you are on the go we are back monday at 5 p.m uk time midday eastern 9 a.m pacific have a wonderful weekend and most importantly i promise to keep fighting for you