Dan Wootton Outspoken - CALVIN ROBINSON CANCELLED BY CHURCH OVER MUSK JOKE AS TOMMY ROBINSON JAIL VISITS BANNED

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Go to https://ground.news/outspoken to see through media bias and stay fully informed. Subscribe through my link for 40% off unlimited access this month. Like Jesus Christ himself, the persecution of Father Calvin Robinson for being a man of God is unrelenting, with even his own church expelling him for a joke mocking the left’s reaction to Elon Musk’s heart salute. In his Digest, Dan draws parallels with the treatment of Tommy Robinson. PLUS: Ben Habib on why Piers Morgan is wrong on Brexit. AND: Katie Hopkins mocks Sly News and Kay Burley as the lying news channel fails THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. To watch the exclusive Uncancelled After Show for 30-minutes extra content EVERY weekday, sign up at: https://www.outspoken.live LIKE & SUBSCRIBE for new videos every day:    / @danwoottonoutspoken   ---------- Today’s Sponsors: GROUND.NEWS - Go to https://ground.news/outspoken to see through media bias and stay fully informed. Subscribe through my link for 40% off unlimited access this month. INCOGNI - Take back your personal data with Incogni! Use code OUTSPOKEN at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: http://incogni.com/outspoken SURFSHARK - Go to https://surfshark.com/outspoken for an extra four months of Surfshark at an unbeatable price VERSO - https://buy.ver.so/outspoken - Use code OUTSPOKEN to save 15% on your first order. MANSCAPED - https://manscaped.com – get 20% off + free shipping with the code Outspoken. ---------- Dan Wootton Outspoken is fan funded through monthly and one-time donations: https://www.outspoken.live ---------- Join Dan's Substack community: https://www.danwoottonoutspoken.com ---------- Find the full audio show wherever you get your podcasts: Apple — https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast... Spotify — https://open.spotify.com/show/19Ltone... ---------- Follow Dan on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@outspokendan?... Follow Dan on Twitter: https://x.com/danwootton Follow Dan on Facebook:   / danwootton   Follow Dan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danwootton/... #DanWootton #DanWoottonOutspoken #news #outspoken Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wooten. This is Outspoken Live, episode number 152. And of course, I have to start today by really expressing my shock, actually, at that terrible plane crash in the Potomac River in Washington, D.C. overnight. I woke up to the news actually and seeing the video in the middle of the night it just really felt like something that should not have been allowed to happen here I think yeah it's it's just it's just so wrong but we can take a little look at what actually went down and you can see at the bottom of the screen there, of course, it was the military helicopter that just collided into the passenger jet,

which we have learned was traveling from Kansas, holding a whole load of champion ice skaters. And because of the bizarre way in which we live today, many of the passengers on board had actually posted from the plane. So even though air travel, let's just be honest about it, remains probably the safest method of transportation. Seeing something like that happen in a city like Washington, D.C. is very, very upsetting. Now, this is really odd. Do you remember yesterday, if you were with us yesterday, Father Calvin Robinson was here. Very, very upsetting. Now, this is really odd.

Do you remember yesterday? If you were with us yesterday, Father Calvin Robinson was here. Everything was completely normal. I had no idea there was a storm brewing. And in fairness, neither did he. But within just a few minutes of coming off air, all of a sudden, Father Calvin had been cancelled again. With headlines all around the world suggesting he had been sacked because he had copied Elon Musk's, quote, Nazi salute. Now, of course, Elon Musk never gave a Nazi salute.

This is actually what he did. And I just want to say thank you for making it happen. Thank you. It was from the heart. We know that. It was from the heart. And let me show you now what has just got Father Calvin cancelled. This is the last stand for Christendom. It's make or break time. The whole of the old world is crumbling. Every country in Europe is embracing death. America, as far as I could see, is the only country fighting for life. And that's down to you guys. So God bless all of you for what you're doing. Please keep doing it. I hope that I can encourage you and my heart goes out to you.

God bless. So clearly a joke. I mean, you can say maybe it's not funny. That's fine. But should Calvin have lost his career? Well, of course not. This one's very personal to me. And it comes on the same day that the governor of HMP Woodhill has just banned Tommy Robinson's friends from seeing him at all. So this political prisoner in solitary confinement now can't see anyone. So in my digest next, I'm just going to draw parallels actually between the treatment of Father Calvin Robinson and Tommy Robinson. No relation, by the way. Then the chairman of the Great British Political Action Committee and the former deputy leader of Reform UK, Ben Habib, joins me live as he calls for all immigration to the UK to be stopped now. Also coming up on the show today, Piers Morgan calls for a new Brexit vote, despite previously claiming that he respected the result, despite voting remain.

And Katie Hopkins, she has a hilarious reaction to the revelation that sly news is going to be shut down. And I promise you, Kay Burley, she's not going to like it. I'll show you that. Then in the uncancelled after show which is on substack www.outspoken.live you can sign up now lady colin campbell unleashed after tucker carlson claims megan markle does not represent black people in the uk i repeat www.outspoken.live plus the return of greatest britain and union jack. But it is now you who gets to decide who is the worst person in the world on this particular day. Today's nominees.

Peter Mandelson, nominated by Fay. And that's because of his screeching U-turn on Donald Trump. Sarah Booth, actually, when she was nominated. I like that she described him as Sir Mandel Slime. Nominee two. Lisa Nandyandy nominated by markets only me 44 for looking for ways of keeping the bbc well funded before the broadcasters charter ends in 2027 and nominee three john swinney the first minister of scotland nominated

by lisa because the scottish government keeps on losing money vote in the live chat and the results will be revealed at the end of the show. I'm so happy for the return of Greatest Britain and Union Jackass. But now, let's go. Like Jesus Christ himself, the persecution of Father Calvin Robinson for being a man of God is unrelenting, with even his own church now expelling him for a joke mocking the left's insane reaction to Elon Musk's heart salute. Now, I'll take you through this ludicrous response to what was very obviously a gag, which received a rapturous response at the pro-life conference in just a moment. But before that, I must say that this egregious mistreatment of Calvin is really personal to me because Calvin is the most loyal man that you could wish for as a friend. Remember, he lost his show at GB News for supporting me.

He lost a very comfortable salary and a life in the mainstream media because unlike most of my other former colleagues, he was not prepared to stay silent when he saw a great injustice and MSM beat up in action. So I won't stay silent now. I also note that it's very telling that there appears to be far more outrage over Father Calvin's salute gag. And I know it's a gag that many of you might consider to be in bad taste, but there is far more outrage over that than today's resignation of the Bishop of Liverpool over sexual assault claims. And I think that tells you something about the state of our society. Let me take you through what happened here. So we all remember Elon Musk's heartfelt response to the rally crowd on the night of Trump's inauguration, which the crooked and corrupt fake news media attempted to suggest

was actually a Hitler salute. And I just want to say thank you for making it happen. Thank you. My heart goes out to you. It is thanks to you. And you saw that it was all about from the heart. He wasn't coming out as a Hitler supporter. So to end his speech, Father Calvin was making a very obvious reference to the MSM overreaction to that moment. But look, watch and judge for yourself. This is the last stand for Christendom. It's make or break time. The whole of the old world is crumbling. Every country in Europe is embracing death. America, as far as I could see, is the only

country fighting for life. And that's down to you guys. So God bless all of you for what you're doing. Please keep doing it. I hope that I can encourage you and my heart goes out to you. God bless. Clearly cheeky, right? Within context. Now, if you want to suggest that no one should ever make a joke involving a Nazi salute whatsoever, then okay, that is an argument. But to lose your religious role over that, well, it's insane. But that is what happened. So Father Calvin was here yesterday recording a live episode of Outspoken. And by the way, I'm not cancelling him if anyone wants to know.

But as soon as he came off air, a statement from the Anglican Catholic Church dropped online and it read, at approximately 3pm today, members of the College of Bishops of the ACC were made aware of a post made on X showing the end of a speech made by Calvin Robinson at the National Pro-Life Summit in Washington, D.C. In it, he closed his comments with a gesture that many have interpreted as a pro-Nazi salute. While we cannot say what was in Mr. Robinson's heart when he did this, his action appears to have been an attempt to curry favour with certain elements of the American political right by provoking its opposition. Mr. Robinson had been warned that online trolling and other such actions,

whether in service of the left or right, are incompatible with a priestly vocation and was told to desist. Clearly he has not, and as such his license in this church has been revoked. He is no longer serving as a priest in the ACC. Now, the reaction has been one of fury, unsurprisingly. Alison Pearson, great woman, she posted on X, Calvin Robinson is a deeply good and holy man. He loves his job as priest at Grand Rapids, Michigan. He would never give a Nazi salute. Upset to hear the Anglican Catholic Church has cancelled his licence, pray they reconsider.

His close friend and Fox and father co-host Lawrence Fox was equally outraged. The left, ironically the very anti-Semitic left, have seized upon as a gesture of some sort of support or sympathy with the right or some sort of nazi group it's very obviously a joke to anyone who even has a modicum of good faith thinking and um i just want to say to the bishops that did you consult your congregation did they did they know what calvin was doing because it's pretty obvious to literally anyone with a brain before you take this bad faith action against a truly, genuinely wonderful and honourable man. I don't want to say anything that will prejudice whatever moves forward from him, but we cannot live in this world of cancel culture. And Calvin has been cancelled more than anyone I ever know and has shown courage in amounts that no one I've ever known has shown so please if you are listening Anglican Catholic Church the law is merciful and whether

you think it's a joking poor taste or not that's fine but please don't take the worst possible bad faith interpretation of what was quite clearly a piece of mockery and ridicule of the way that Elon Musk originally said. It's a direct copy of what Elon Musk did and therefore it would seem really unwise to pander to the very anti-Semites who can't bear Jews. Professor Norman Fenton having having watched that, posted, I have disagreements with Calvin on some issues, but what Lawrence says here is spot on. It's bad enough Elon Musk was wrongly accused of being a Nazi for his gesture.

Cancelling Calvin for jokingly mimicking it is beyond ludicrous. P.S. My dad was a Holocaust survivor. And it is worth remembering why Father Calvin keeps on getting cancelled by the establishment. So when he was here yesterday, just before this all exploded in the MSM, he responded to Suella Braverman warning that the UK could have an Islamist government in just two decades. Watch. It's an Islamist government that would potentially want to introduce Sharia law. Right, indeed. We're already seeing the fruits of that.

We're already seeing Sharia law all up and down the country. I think there are 80 Sharia courts predicted by our own government. So there's probably more than that in reality. So it's already happening. And she's right to call it out but the shock and the horror from the Legacy media when she does call it out is interesting isn't it it's almost like they don't want to acknowledge what's going on I think her speech was fantastic so well I was able to say things that you and I have been saying for a long time you know we call them the Pakistani Muslim rape gangs they're not grooming gangs they are raping young girls, unfortunately.

It's grave evil. Call it as it is. She used the same term. And that's quite a significant step because all of our politicians up until now have been saying they're grooming gangs. They water things down in order to play nice with the lefty legacy media.

But we don't need people to do that. We need people to speak the truth, call a spade a spade, address the problem head on and try and come up with solutions. We can't have solutions if we can't even identify the issue. Calvin Robinson, just yesterday. And Calvin then drew our attention to this display on London's Westminster Bridge. Now, as the outspoken contributor Tasha Canal, according to Taz, posted about that, this is the same bridge that Khaled Massoud, a Muslim terrorist, murdered six people back in March 2017, injuring a further 50 people.

How is this allowed? Imagine the families of the victims seeing this shit. This country is going to hell. But it's because Calvin Robinson speaks up against stuff like that, that sees him constantly cancelled. It is worth, by the way, outlining just some of Calvin's official denial of the claims against him. So he posted on X for the record in case it needs saying, I am not a Nazi. I gave a talk at a pro-life event that seemed to go down well. I am pleased to have contributed to what I believe to be the most important of causes. The enemy hates that, of course, and the attacks have been painful and plentiful. That is fine and to be expected. The joke at the

end was a mockery of the hysterical liberals who call Elon Musk a Nazi for quite clearly showing the audience's heart was with them. Context is key. But sometimes people ignore context to confirm their own prejudices. People see what they want to see. My attempt at dry wit in that typical British way was not a joke at the expense of World War II, nor an admission of my membership in the Nationalist Socialist Party. That would be an incredibly ignorant and bad faith assumption to make. The responses are very telling though. The people who understand,

cheer. Those who have eyes to see. The people who do not want to understand, reach for their pitchforks. They have found a new channel for their hatred. He went on, whether a silly old cleric like me makes a poor joke is irrelevant. Do not be swayed and distracted by the enemy whispering in your ears. Focus on the light. And he wrapped it up by saying, you can consider my joke crass, but I ask you to consider if your responses have been proportionate. And of course it's not proportionate. Of course it's not. But most people are too scared to stand up for those being unfairly cancelled. Don't I know it. And then I start to see the obvious parallels between the treatment of Father Calvin Robinson and Tommy Robinson, who has now had virtually all visitors

banned at HMP Woodhill, where he is a political prisoner in solitary confinement. Now, I have to say, I feel some responsibility for this because it was actually my report, here on Outspoken, after I spoke to Tommy behind bars in December, where he revealed to me that Axel Rudi Cabana was a practicing Muslim at Balmarsh Prison that appears to have sparked this crackdown. And it was actually revealed to us by Richard Inman, who said the governor has banned two of Tommy's close friends. And the letter from the governor said your visit has not been approved based on information that content from that visit is likely to be used on your social media platforms. So there we go, social media. Even though the MSM is dead,

as we've seen from the collapse of Sly News this week, they are now targeting the people's platforms. No doubt in part because Elon Musk has agreed to pay Tommy's legal fees. As Ezra Levent, a really good man from Rebel News, he runs Rebel News, he has previously paid Tommy's costs. As he put it, Tommy is in solitary confinement. That's meant as a short-term punishment for misconduct in prison, not as a long-term sentence. Denying Tommy the right to visit with his friends, simply because of their politics, is illegal. They're mentally torturing him, just like they're now mentally torturing Father Calvin Robinson, in my view. And whether you agree with all that Father Calvin Robinson says

or all that Tommy Robinson says is not the point. That is not the point in this case. Because we together must stand up against this tyranny. This tyranny of cancel culture. Now it's time for The Outsider. and i'm delighted to welcome the chairman of the great british political action committee that's pack we're going to talk about that very shortly and the former reform uk deputy leader ben habib and look ben it's really interesting to me because there was a similar attempt to cancel you actually over the course of the general election campaign when you gave an

answer to julie hartley brewer on talk radio basically saying you didn't want the british navy to be picking up migrants and if that meant letting their boats sink then so be it but i saw a very similar cancellation campaign against you so how do you feel about Father Calvin Robertson being defrocked for a joke? So the debate I had with Julia was a hypothetical one in which I said boats should be intercepted in the channel and sent back to France, which I still hold by, wholeheartedly hold by. You can't have border enforcement if you don't enforce your border. It's, you know, it's obvious. But her retort was, you know, what if one of them got a knife out and stabbed the dinghy? And I said, well, give them another dinghy. I imagine one brush with the North Sea would get them scrambling back into their rescue boat.

And she said, in my view, rather ridiculously, what if they got a knife out again and stabbed this thingy and ended up in the drink? And I said, well, how long could this go on for? And she said, would you let them drown? And I said, well, look, they made the decision to go into the channel. They made the decision to stab their boat. They've gone in the drink twice. They clearly intent on self-harm. If they want to drown, that is their prerogative. And of course, that was the gotcha moment she wanted it was a hypothetical discussion completely absurd but it was a gotcha moment and no one listens to the interview on either side of that point but they come to the point and they just clip the point where i say well they made that decision they they must suffer the consequences of their own decision which by the way is also something I hold by. People must suffer the consequences of their own decision. Far too much self, a personal agency has been abrogated to third parties,

most notably the state. You know, when we were children, I'm sure it was the case as well, Dan, when you were a child, you were younger than me, but, you know, we were made to take responsibility for ourselves, get dressed on our own at quite an early stage, make your own bed, tidy your room up. And I was certainly spanked if I didn't. And so I learned that, you know, one has to live by one's own decisions. And we've lost that. You know, every time something goes wrong nowadays, we say, well, it was social services fault or it was the was the government's fault, or something didn't happen, or etc., etc. And we've got to re-engage with our own ability to make decisions. But that was the gotcha moment they wanted. And Calvin Robinson, you're right, is exactly the attempted cancellation of Calvin Robinson is exactly the same thing. It's self-evident that he was making a joke.

Do we live in a post-joke, post-humor era? And perhaps we do because, you know, when you take liberalism to its nth degree, liberalism being the promotion of the individual and the dumbing down and the muffling, in effect, of the majority so that you can promote the individual if necessary to the detriment of the majority. Our liberal democracy is now more liberal than it is democratic, much more liberal than it is democratic. Ultimately, you can only do it

by banning free speech because the majority, as I've indicated, have to be silenced. And the minute you ban free speech, you have this kind of nonsense going on where someone makes a joke and they get cancelled because free speech is gone. And you're right to draw a parallel with Tommy Robinson as well. I don't know Tommy Robinson. I do know Calvin and I know he's got a sharp wit. I don't know Tommy Robinson. I can't advocate for him. I know he said divisive things in the past, etc. But the point about Tommy Robinson and particularly this incarceration is, you know, him being in solitary confinement now, not receiving visitors, is that his free speech was shut down and then he was incarcerated.

He was given a prison sentence, more draconian than so many rioters who've been up and down in the Palestinian, not going up and down our streets, chanting hateful things about Israel, etc. No consequences for them. But the attorney general, who just reminds people who are watching this, is a political appointment. Lord Herma, a Labour peer appointed by the Labour Party in July when they won the election. A man who's defended the rights of Gerry Adams, promoted the rights of illegal migrants. A deeply divisive political figure himself decided he was going to intercede in a civil case, highly unusual.

There has to be a matter of national public interest involved for the Attorney General to get stuck into a civil case. Decided that this was such an issue. And because Tommy Robinson had shown that film silenced in breach of an injunction, He directed it towards a criminal court. And then the judge in the criminal court gave Tommy Robinson an incredibly harsh prison sentence. He could have wrapped him on the knuckles.

He could have given him community service. He could have put a band around his ankle and said, you've got to stay within a certain radius of your home, whatever. There were multiple options, but they incarcerated him. And so when Elon Musk says that Tommy Robinson is a political prisoner, Elon Musk is right. And I'm afraid, this is a slight segue, but I'm afraid Nigel Farage is wrong. And I find it quite peculiar. I don't want this to become a thing about Nigel, whom I love, by the way. I feel obliged to say that in case he should seek to cancel me. But I do love Nigel.

The point about Tommy Robinson and that debate, political prison thing is it's another example of two tier justice in our country. And people like Nigel and others are perfectly aware of the two-tier justice system that we have because they're calling it out repeatedly they see i've already mentioned the palestinian marches they would cite those two manchester i think they were pakistani origin guys who broke the nose of a police officer they weren't charged for a long time clearly there was a two-tier approach to justice there even rudy cabana was a two-tier approach to justice there. Even Rudi Kibana got a two-tier approach to justice. You know, his vile crimes were hidden from us and there was no reason from a contempt of court perspective that we shouldn't have known about his ethnic origin, the vile crimes, etc. So I find it really peculiar that our own, in this case, Nigel, understands that there's a two tier justice system,

two tier criminal justice system, calls it out when it's being used in favour of promoting forces with which he rightfully disagrees in this country, but isn't prepared to call it out when that two tier criminal justice system is used against people on our side of the debate. And so, you know, Tommy Robinson, undoubtedly, undoubtedly, in my mind, a political prisoner, and a victim of the two tier criminal justice system that we have in this country and the move towards the cancellation of individuals and free speech. And just to reiterate, before everyone says you're a Tommy Robinson nutcase, I'm not. I don't know the man. I'm not an apologist for him. But that's what I read and that's what I see. And it'll be the end of democracy if people like me don't come out

and call a spade a spade. Well, indeed. And look, when it comes to cancel culture, I know all about it, don't I? Absolutely, you do. Because remember, my cancellation was actually about something someone else said, and I just wasn't offended enough at Lawrence Fox, who we saw earlier. So look, in this case, I think it's absolutely fair not to think that Calvin's joke was funny while at the same time, by the way, I do think it was funny. But I'm saying if you do think it's not funny, that's fine.

It doesn't mean that he should lose his entire career and especially given his career is a calling. Pauline. Breaking right now, a brand new opinion poll this afternoon has Reform UK with a four point lead. The political tectonic plates are shifting, folks. Let me show you this Find Out Now survey. Reform UK on 27%. Labour, 23%. The Conservatives, the third party, 21%. Lib Dems, 11%. And the Greens, 10%. Ben Habib joins me now. He is the former leader of Reform UK, now chairman of the Great British Political Action Committee, which is attempting perhaps to somehow unite the right. And we will come to that in just one moment. But first, on the issue of immigration, Ben this week has been incredibly clear,

writing in response to those numbers, which were just astonishing, suggesting our population is about to explode to 72 million. So Ben has written, there must be an immediate stop on the granting of British citizenship to all immigrants in the UK. Any and all routes must be indefinitely suspended. Net migration, not good enough. So Ben Habib joins me now. Ben, this is a really interesting one because, of course, the Great British Pack is all about bringing the right together somehow.

However, it seems to me that what you're saying here, and I do agree with you, by the way, is that neither Reform UK or the Conservatives, who I'll get to in one moment, by the way, are going far enough? Absolutely. Neither are going far enough. In fact, I mean, the Conservatives, we already know, are quite centrist, from which you can read lefty. And Reform have the impression, they make the impression that they are nationists, strong borders, deregulate, cut taxes, all of that. But they've done a number of things which indicate to, again, to any observant individual who's assessing these things without any axe to grind, that they're pivoting towards the

centre ground. And one of the aims of the Great British Pack, and one of the problems I think the country faces at the moment, is that what is acceptable political discourse, and we've already touched on it, what is an acceptable, where the centre of gravity is for acceptable political discourse is actually shifted over a lot to the left. And it's this kind of, you know, uber liberalism, which is dictating that the centre of gravity of political discourse is over to the left. And even those of us who understand that we've got to move radically for a nation first agenda, get hijacked by where the center of gravity is on debate.

And so one of the aims that we have in the Great British Pack is to move the centre of gravity for political discourse from the left to the right, to a nation first agenda so that people like Nigel and Kemi can have the courage to actually say and do what Trump is doing. And then neither of them saying it. So, for example, Nigel is on the record saying he's not worried about the rate of demographic change in this country. He worries about the culture. But of course, one is the other side of the same coin. He he is on the record saying that he's against mass deportation. And I understand that there are challenges with mass deportation. But there is no route to getting rid of illegal migrants other than through detaining them and then as do your best to deportation. But there is no route to getting rid of illegal migrants other than through detaining them and then do your best to deport them. And if you can't deport them, you indefinitely detain

them. And we must get a grip of these issues. And the only way we're going to do it is if we move that Overton window to the right and we give our political representatives the cover that they clearly need and the encouragement they need to do the right thing. So the Great British Pack, I'm slightly moving on, but the Great British Pack is going to move that Overton window. And we're not going to be very nice about doing it. We're going to call out people for what they are. This is not going to be us pleading with Nigel or pleading with Kemi to do the right thing. It's going to be us shining a bright light on what they're doing, making sure that the razzmatazz and all the hand gestures and all the all that they say isn't all that they're going to deliver and reveal to the people what they're actually believing, where they're taking this country so that we can force the agenda to the

right. And I think we're going to have a lot of cover ourselves and support in doing that because Donald Trump is doing it across the Atlantic. And if he's doing it, he's setting the agenda and our political class should be able to take it on board. So it's going to be it's not going to be us pleading with anyone. It's going to be us pushing people to do the right thing i love that it is so absolutely necessary i fully endorse this pack uh claire bullivant who is very much behind it is an incredible woman she was very involved with the conservative democratic organization and i think you're right the problem is at the moment is that Farage and Badenoch are playing far too much to the Westminster insiders, far too much to the legacy media. And what that means is that sometimes they are too afraid to tackle the issues that are so necessary. I mean, credit to Suella Braverman, and we went into it on the show yesterday.

If you want to see what she said, you can go back and look at it. No, she's brave. Yeah, and she's actually talking about the fact that, heck, if we're not careful in 20 years' time, this could be an Islamist country. This could be a country with an Islamist government. Those are the types of conversations we have to have. But, look, speaking about the Conservative Party, I want to show you this interview that's been going viral, Ben.

I only watched it just before the show. Not sure if you've seen it yet, but it's Priti Patel having, and look, this actually pains me to say this, Ben, because I really like Priti Patel. I really like Priti too. She's a great woman in a lot of ways, but unfortunately it has sparked huge backlash, and maybe not unfortunately, actually, because the problem is, Ben, even now, she still doesn't seem to understand that it was the Conservative Party who flung open our doors to the world and were a big part of the demographic change and the social issues that we are facing in this country.

So this is an interview on The Sun's talk show with Harry Cole. It is relatively long, but I think it is worth watching because let's just say it is a bit of a car crash, Ben. Been some downsides since... Tell me. Well, let's have a look at the graph. Net migration. Look at that. That was on your watch. Where exactly on that graph were you the Home Secretary in charge of Britain's...

So, well, we should first of all recognise that we ended free movement. Yeah, you ended free movement for Europeans and you threw the borders open to the rest of the world and the graph... We always said that in Brexit, Harry. No, come on, come on. That is not fair. You did not say we're going to hit

1.2 million net... No, we did not say that. We're going to allow 1.2 million people into the country in one year. So let net migration. No, we did not say that. We're going to allow 1.2 million people into the country in one year. So let me finish. Brightest and the best come into our country, people on skilled work routes and visas. Is that the brightest and the best? We've always said, well, look at the...

It's legal migration, Harry. It's legal. People who come here and work and contribute to our economy. Brightest and the best. Look at the points-based immigration system. For the first time ever... Harry, let me give you some facts. Go on. For the first time ever, we have a points-based immigration system. For the first time ever... Harry, let me give you some facts. For the first time ever, we have a points-based

immigration system, counting people in and out. You can turn off the immigration system at any stage, in terms of what our economy needs and doesn't need. You know, the government should have done more, absolutely, on skills and training Brits. Did every one of those 1.2 million people that flooded into

the country in the last three years, did they need to come here? So what would you say to the Ukrainians that are in our country? That's 300,000. It is now 300. What would you say to the BNOs? What would you say also to people that came here to conflict? Come on, you're fudging the numbers there.

I'm not fudging the numbers, I'm telling you now. 300,000 Ukrainians on a temporary fix is not 1.2 million people coming to this country to take jobs, to take jobs that you promised were going to go to Sunreaders and people who voted for Brexit. Those are skilled visas, Harry. We made it quite clear. These are people that work, you know, skilled visa routes, all the skills in terms of NHS, people that are working in our National Health Service.

We had something called a pandemic. You remember health and social care visas as well. I'm not fine with it. I haven't said that. Would you like to apologise to all the people that voted Brexit for the fact that you misled them and saying we're going to take back control of our borders and then you threw them open and let in millions of people? That's not true.

That is totally distortionary and that's not true. And to be quite frank, we made it quite clear it would be people from the rest of the world, people with skills, based on our economy. And I think people should apologise for those who are saying that actually... You would like an apology. No, people in the pandemic came here, health and social care visas, what would have happened to our NHS? Are we now saying, are you and others saying we don't need those people in our NHS? Well, look, unfortunately, Ben, the reason we need so many people in the NHS is because the Tories created this trap and this population explosion.

But can you understand why Matt Goodwin has seen that interview this afternoon and said, quite simply, I will never vote for the Conservative Party again? Well, I mean, as you and I both said, I like pretty, but she got a number of things just factually wrong in answering Harry. Yes, they did introduce a point based system. And at the time, I was encouraged by the fact that they'd done it, but they set the minimum salary at which people could come into this country at 26,000 pounds per annum, which is about 25% below our already very low median wage in the country. And that basically opened the doors not to skilled labour, but to unskilled labour. And, of course, she hasn't taken into account all the dependents that came to the country with those who came to work in our NHS and those who've come on really ridiculous courses

to go to really third-rate educational establishments, bringing their wives and children and aunts and uncles and whatever over with them. And now we've got masses of people in this country, a new form of immigration that we've never had before, where they're unskilled. I'm not even talking about cheap labour. I'm talking about people who aren't even working.

And the problem, the reason I did that tweet saying that we've got to suspend all forms of route to British citizenship or right to remain in this country is because the minute you come to this country, as you and I know, we never get rid of anyone. Never. Once you're here, you're here. And, you know, we've got now, it's a joke, we've got one and a half million people, immigrants, on benefits.

Take an average of £10,000 per head, that's £15 billion a year we're spending on people who are not low-skilled working in the labour force. They're not even Deliveroo drivers or scientists or whatever. They're not working. They're having a great time. And they can't believe their luck. No, indeed. Well, as Gad Saad calls it, it's suicidal empathy.

That's where we're at. There is one other issue that I want to talk to you about in regards to the Great British Pack, Ben. But to do so, I want to show you a little clip of a BBC interview. Now, this was between the Labour MP Polly Billington and Reform UK's Chairman Zia Youssef. And it was over the issue of the NHS. And the issue that I have is because Reform UK are so worried about the MSM playing gotcha when it comes to the NHS, they are making promises which I think are not necessarily

sensible. But what I want to do is have a look at this exchange, look at the gotcha moment, and then we can discuss it off the back. Well, I just want to get some further clarification from Zia, because at the weekend, no, this is important, at the weekend, Nigel Farage said everything was on the table, including, for example, the French model, which is about £2,000 a year for a pensioner. So I just want to clear up, when Nigel says everything's on the table, is the idea of pensioners paying £2,000 a year extra to cover their health insurance, something that would be considered or would be an option for reform.

The NHS will remain free at the point of use for everybody when reform are in government. But let's be really clear about this. The NHS is already broken, partly because of catastrophically poor management and no political leadership and a population explosion neither which is going to change for the next three years and so we are going to have we are going to have a policy for the NHS that is going to be fit and ready for when we are going to come to government which is three to four years paid by pensioners as an insurance policy in order for them to get access to the NHS. The NHS will remain free at the point of use. So they'd have to pay extra.

You're not ruling out pensioners paying extra. So already what we see, Ben Habib, is an MP like Polly Billington and the Labour Party, enabled by the BBC, playing gotcha with Reform UK because Nigel Farage in the past has quite rightly spoken about the fact that we need to subsidise insurance, the model has to change. And what I'm nervous about, and I'm interested in where you want the Great British Pack to come into this, is that very early on, years and years out before an election campaign, we have Reform UK say, no, no, no,

everything's going to remain free at the point of use. Well, I'm sorry, that system doesn't work. Allowing millionaires to receive free healthcare doesn't work. Now, Anne Whittakin, a really senior figure within Reform UK, for years has campaigned against that approach and said, actually, we do need to have a genuine debate about NHS reform. And I worry that to avoid the gotcha games of Labour and the MSM, Zia Youssef and Nigel Farage have already ruled it out. So that was what I would call a reverse gotcha moment. It wasn't him saying we're going to privatise the NHS, which would have been a gotcha moment, because that's what they all expect people on the right hand side of politics to do. But it was like we are going to be the ultimate socialists when it comes to the NHS. And and look, it is complex sorting out the NHS, but I'm squarely

with Anne. We need to have a very honest conversation about the NHS. Life expectancy in 1948, whenever it was that the NHS was brought into being, was 60 odd years of age. It's now 81 years of age. The treatments that were available back then were quite basic. And, you know, the treatments being offered to patients were basic. We now have very complex treatment and we can treat many more diseases at vast cost. And all of this is being done on the NHS together with lots of treatments, which perhaps shouldn't be at the door of the NHS. And Zeyar makes a good point as well, of course, that we've got a massive population explosion as well. Back in 1948,

the population was, what, 45 million or something? It's now 68 million. You'd have to fact check me on some of these figures. I'm going by memory. But you see the picture being drawn. And we can't just write a blank check for any public service. We've got to be honest about it because we will go bankrupt. The notion, this notion that we take for granted that the UK is the UK, it'll be all right on the night, which is so British, cannot be taken for granted. Things may not be all right on the night. And we're really on the edge of an economic collapse. And I think what I would have gone back to that Labour MP on is that actually the economy,

which is a key component of being able to sustain any form of NHS, is being trashed by the Labour Party. If you do not have a healthy economy, you cannot have a healthy population and you can't deliver the measures required in order to have a healthy population. You've got to fix the economy in order for the NHS to be fixed. And that's what I would have said to her.

And actually, the other retort, of course, is that the most economic damage ever done by any government to this country outside of wartime, which arguably wasn't the government, you know, it was an outside force, was lockdown. That was a massive amount of economic, £500 billion of borrowing. And we were all saying it at the time, Vin.

Well, not all of us, but all of us here in this conversation were. Well, no, look, this is why I think it's so important. I bet that Labour MP wasn't saying it. Of course she wasn't. Of course she was saying it. They were saying lockdown longer and harder. But look, that's why I think the Great British Pack is going to be so important, because the key thing is you guys don't have to be trapped by some of the games that the MSM and the political establishment try to play.

And as a result, hopefully you can try and push Reform UK and the Tories to have a proper discussion. Because for me, when it comes to the NHS, and this is a controversial view, of course, but I don't think millionaires should receive free GP treatment. In fact, the problem is, if you allow people to see the GP for free, it actually renders the service meaningless. People don't even bother to show up. And you know what, I would much rather pay 10 quid to go and see the GP if that enabled me to receive international standard of cancer treatment, for example, because that's the type of thing that you really need to rely on the NHS for. But that is a debate for another day. Breaking right now, Piers Morgan has called for a new Brexit vote, just as there is real pressure building from Labour and from all the usual suspects to row back all of our hard-fought freedoms. And the Daily Express today

leading on that pressure. Starmer really can't be trusted with our Brexit. Well, yes, I was saying that years ago, because this was the guy, of course, who advocated for a second referendum, a people's vote, as he called it, even though we'd already had one. But look, let me take you through Piers Morgan's tweet, then we'll get reaction from Ben Habib, former Brexit Party MEP. Piers posted on X, it's now painfully obvious Brexit hasn't worked and is actively harming us economically. It didn't even control our bloody borders. Given the British people would clearly vote overwhelmingly to go back into the EU, we should have another referendum.

Now that is a real letdown from Pears because Pears was one of these guys who was a Ramona, he voted for Remain. But in fairness to him, after the vote, he wanted to respect democracy. Not anymore. He's basing this, by the way, on this new poll from YouGov, which shows the number of Britons saying the UK was right to vote to leave the EU, hitting its lowest level since the referendum ahead of the fifth anniversary of Brexit this week. Right to vote leave 30%, down from three, down three in November, wrong to vote for to leave 55%. But as you'd expect, there's been a big reaction against Piers Morgan here. Sophie Corcoran posted, no, my generation is someday going to inherit the country and we should have

a right to govern this country in the way we see fit without being told what to do by Europe. Richard Tice, deputy leader of Reform UK, wrote, Piers, please explain why Germany, powerhouse of the EU, is suffering more than the UK and in recession for two years, likely third year in 2025. Why their exports are falling, given in single market and customs union. Why their real GDP is flat since 2019. Our respective struggles are zipped to do with Brexit, but due to failed political class obsessed with net zero and mass immigration, both of which have made us poorer. Thankfully, out of the EU, we can work closer on trade with Trump as US will soar. Starmer, though, will fail due to his regulatory fantasies with the EU. And by the way, the new party leader approval tracker shows Starmer, slippery Starmer as well, and truly failing.

He is now even more unpopular than fishy Rishi Sunak was at any point in his failed premiership. So Ben Habib is here, former deputy leader of Reform UK, of course, now chair of the Great British Pack, but most importantly for this conversation, a former Brexit Party MEP. So Ben Habib, I actually want you to speak directly to Piers Morgan, because as I say, Piers was one of those guys who he was a Remainer, but then he did respect the vote. He no longer believes in that. What would be your message to him? Why is he wrong to advocate for a second referendum? Well, he's he's just simply wrong at every level. I don't take much of what Piers Morgan says seriously because he flip flops a lot, doesn't he?

One minute he's pro something, then he's anti it. Like COVID vaccines now, COVID vaccines, he says. Oh, no, no, no, I should never have forced you to have a COVID vaccine. Well, at the time, he was saying if you didn't have a COVID vaccine, you shouldn't even receive health treatment, even if you have a heart attack. Anyway, sorry to interrupt, Ben. But, I mean, what I would say to him and to anyone, frankly, who wishes to go back into the European Union, let alone wanting a referendum.

I mean, ultimately, they're saying they want a referendum because they want to go back to the EU. It's not because they want to test the vote. It's they want to go back to the EU. But the EU is the ultimate in the liberal global order. The EU is the most highly regulated organism in Western civilization. It is also one that doesn't recognize nation states. It's taken down borders right across Europe. It is absolutely hollowing out a nation state. So if you care about borders, if you care about the democratic unit that is a nation state, such as Germany, France, the United Kingdom, if you care about governance being for the people of those countries, the promotion of their interests, the protection of their culture, effectively the protection of Western civilization. If you care about that, you cannot be pro-EU. Pro-EU is the opposite of protecting Western civilization. And, you know,

some people may say, oh, Ben, you're being a bit scaremongering. But look, they don't care. They don't care about nation states. The minute you cease to care about nation states because you want power in yourself, you are getting rid of Western culture because culture comes through nation states. You get rid of Western culture, doesn't matter where you're from. You could be an immigrant. You can be born in Germany, France, wherever it is. Your parents could be Normans or they could be from Somalia. Who cares? And that's the end of our country and our cultures as we know them. So if that's what Piers wants, that's fine. But he's wrong. He's wrong to want it. And he's wrong to call for a referendum. The real issue with Brexit, and I've got a real issue with Brexit, is that we

didn't get it. We left Northern Ireland behind. We've left a grappling hook from the EU in the flesh of the United Kingdom. They keep yanking that hook. Starmer, therefore, has cover for wishing to go back to the EU. Thankfully, we've got Trump on the other side of the Atlantic pulling him the other way. But let me just say this. Every single policy instituted by Trump cannot be introduced in the United Kingdom if we rejoin the EU. In fact, in order to deliver his agenda, we are going to have to cut more of our ties with the EU. We're going to have to jettison the treaties that Boris Johnson signed.

We're going to have to tear them up because they require us to stay stuck in this liberal global order. And we can't ditch net zero. We can't ditch DEI. We can't genuinely put up our borders. We can't even cut zero. We can't ditch DEI. We can't genuinely put up our borders. We can't even cut taxes and deregulate if we do not ditch the EU completely. So what does Piers Morgan want? Does

he want to watch us just be washed over by the economic tsunami that will come if we don't react to Trump's incredibly pro-American growth strategy? Or does he want to, does he realise that that's where we've got to go? What does he want? What does Piers Morgan want? I know. And the problem is that the reason Brexit has never been successful is because we've had people like Piers Morgan doing it down. Absolutely. Refusing to allow it to happen from the moment the result came in. And it actually makes me so angry because these people claim to be patriots. And actually, all they want is to be part of the globalist order. It's depressing, but we know that.

I mean, we literally have a prime minister. We literally have a prime minister who said he preferred Davos to Westminster, as in he would rather us be ruled by the really, really, and let's just be honest about this, Ben, shady characters who run the World Economic Forum, rather than allow us to have our own sense of sovereignty and and to me that just sums it up. He's anti-British and the vast majority of Labour parliamentarians are anti-British there are some notable exceptions but the vast majority are and it's deeply

distressing that we have a government that would wish to hand over power to a foreign power, that we have a government that if it was able to do that, would take down our borders, hand over the control of our military to a foreign power. Starmer's trying to do that anyway. Give control of our monetary policy over to a foreign power. All of this would be, that's the end of the United Kingdom. That's the end of the United, is that what he wants? I mean, it's just horrendous. The prospect is horrendous. I know, but I think it is what they want, Ben. It is what they want, yeah. They literally want us to be controlled. They would be much more comfortable, these people, and you've really got to think about this. For example, during the pandemic, they would have been much more comfortable if our policy had been controlled by the World Health Organization, for example. So that's where I think Reform UK is saying some good things because we've got to get out of that organization too. But look, stand by. Ben Habib back in just one minute with, I've got to show you this because it made me laugh earlier actually, Katie Hopkins having a

real go at the end of Sly News and that old bore John Cleese. I'm going to tell you about what's gone on with me and John Cleese, but that old bore John Cleese has become the latest liberal lovey to quit X as a result of Elon Musk. And of course he wants us all to care about it. But first, the reason you're watching this show is because you know these days it's almost impossible to trust the mainstream media or the so-called fact checkers who claim to patrol social media. And that's for a very good reason. Think about it. Brexit, COVID, Donald Trump, all of those big stories the MSM got wrong. But I have the solution. Because today's sponsor, Ground News, provides you with a safe way to consume the headlines. Go to ground.news forward slash

outspoken to check it out for yourself. But I want to show you this incredible website and app in action. So this is looking at the recent story of Elon Musk's fallout with Nigel Farage over Tommy Robinson. You know that story was whipped up by the left-wing media, but what's brilliant, and this is just an example, you can do this with literally any news story in the world, but with this example, CrowdNews has collated the 230 sources into one place, and then it instantly shows how the story is being covered by the media, broken down by whether the organizations lean to the left or the right or in the center. That's called the bias distribution service. And if you scroll down, you can see every article about the

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in the world. I have to be honest with you. I have this app downloaded on my phone. I use the website all the time. It is now the only way I read the news because what it allows me to do is see through the bias, the manipulative tactics, and actually who wants to rely on the MSM to define what is true. So you can go to ground.news forward slash outspoken to check it out. Subscribe through my link today for 40% off the Vantage plan, which is what I use for unlimited access. I should say too, Ground News is totally subscriber funded. If you support my sponsors, you are supporting my work. I think that is worth saying too. And for less than a Netflix subscription, actually, you can get all of the world's news in one place and think for yourself. This has been a game changer for a news junkie like me. So let me just repeat the address, ground.news forward slash outspoken, or you can click on the QR code if you're watching

on YouTube and rumble, or actually the link is in the description box in the notes below this video. But now back to the show. Breaking right now, Katie Hopkins has mocked Sly News and Kay Burley after the revelation that the end of the crooked, biased, left-wing news service is very, very close, with the channel preparing to come off all linear platforms by 2030. I think it will be earlier than that. Watch. Guy News is no more. No one's watching it, so it's going behind a paywall. One thing's for certain, if people didn't watch it when it was free, they're not going to pay to watch it behind a paywall, are they? Stronger bosses would just clear out the whole place, and all Sky News employees are now on indeed.co.uk looking for new jobs.

We remember a time when Beth Rigby and Kay Burley told us to lock down whilst they were out partying. Funny how karma comes and bites you in the arse, doesn't it, Kay? Yes, it is. Let me bring in Ben Habib, chairman of the great British PAC, former deputy leader of Reform UK. Ben, I think Katie makes a very salient point there because Sly News, do you remember during the pandemic, would constantly, and actually it was Kay Burley and it was Beth Rigby that would do it, they would constantly go on press conferences,

challenge politicians saying that they should be locking us down harder. At the same time, they were quaffing champagne, breaking all the rules late night in Soho. That was one of the salient moments. But I also think it was the Brexit referendum too, Ben. You'll remember this very clearly. This lot tried to demonise Brexit voters. They tried to portray us as thick. They tried to mock us. They gaslit us by telling us that we actually didn't know what we were voting for. They still do all of this. Yeah, they do. No, they do. And don't you think the decline of Sly News, though, is why actually, it's sort of indicative, it's representative, I guess you would say,

Ben, of the wider decline of the mainstream media? Yeah. So, I mean, what is happening amongst the populace, and we saw it for the first time in the vote to leave the EU, is a move towards the nation again. Right across Europe, the United States and the United Kingdom, people are recognising that unless our politicians get a grip of the importance of putting the country first, we will cease to have countries. And people like Sky News and our parliamentarians, to a large extent, are out of step with the people. The people are already there.

Did you see the poll? I read about it in the Daily Telegraph. Perhaps it was elsewhere as well. But there was a poll done on each of the Trumpian policies. And over 55% of respondents, over 55% of respondents, over 55% of respondents on every poll agreed with the Trumpian policies, each one of them. And when they asked reform and Tory voters what they thought of the policies, over 76% voted in favour. The mood of the nation, the mood of Western Europe and the United States is not with Sky News.

It's the other way. And it's not with the BBC. So they need to understand what's happening, recognise it, wake up and similarly smell the coffee and pivot. They do. But I think it's too late, Ben. It's too late. Once you lose trust, how can you get it back? And remember, Ben, I mean, this is not a news service anymore. They are activists. Do you remember, Ben, they actually launched, I mean, they had to take it off in the end because no one was watching, but they launched something called the Daily Climate Show. And this was just to spread propaganda and to try and terrify us all and lie to us all. I remember they even did manipulative graphics showing how London was going to be underwater. So I don't think they can get that trust back. And the idea that they want people to pay for this content is ludicrous. It's economic lunacy.

Also, do you remember whenever it was summer and we got a moment, we got a moment of heat in the United Kingdom? The weather charts on Sky News and the BBC would show burning hot red as if the UK was about to spontaneously combust. I wish we had anything remotely close to what I used to remember to be a reasonable British summer. It's been blooming freely. there we are i know i know well look we've we've had enough of them i shed no tears ben habib for the end for the end of sky news i i really don't i have to be honest about that um but i also find it hilarious at the moment being how what you're seeing with uh i guess how would you describe them elite class. I think that is a good term. The elite class are struggling, aren't they?

They're really struggling to cope with the fact that we've pushed back and the people are turning against the mainstream media and they hate it. And a perfect example of this is John Cleese. Now, John Cleese, I'll be honest about it, he used to be a real hero of mine. I absolutely loved Fawlty Towers. When Monty Python came back, do you remember that? They did one reunion.

No one ever thought they were going to be reunited. And I broke the story when I was at the Sun newspaper, and it was a huge deal. And I met all of the guys. And it was just a really special time. But John Cleese has gone down a rabbit hole, Ben. He has been very, very influenced and manipulated by the hard left. He lost the plot over the Brexit vote and he's trusted people like Carol and Byline Times, all the nutty people that we don't actually really have to talk about because they're so crazy. And so John Cleese has now announced, with some fanfare as if we're meant to care, that he's quitting X because of Elon Musk. And he even made a video announcing his move.

Watch this. his move watch this hello twits i just want to say to all my beloved twits that i am moving to substack because i think i will encounter a better class of person there and also it's not on my and of course on subject by the way substack is a great platform ben but it's no different to x because sub stack is all about free speech that's why i use it that's why i encourage everyone signs up to me on sub stack www.outspoken.live by the way but anyway look he made his first post on sub stack writing hello today i start using Substack. I used to like Twitter, but always felt very constrained by the 144 limit. This brought problems for the irony challenge who misunderstood a lot of what I was trying to say. This is a particular problem for me because I seem to be

regarded as on the left by some people on the right and on the right by people on the left. Apparently this makes me controversial and therefore box office poison. I hope that now I am on Substack, I can offer ideas of greater subtlety to my ex twits whom i shall refer henceforth as my followers so dear reader please follow me at a safe distance and then just to show that he never moves on he posted again saying before i continue my spat with pierce morgan i need a little time to research the difference between a memory lapse and actual surgery

and so he does every now and then have a moment of comedy gone but it was really interesting my issue with John Cleese is that when I was at GB News and do you remember he joined GB News it was a huge mistake the show completely bombed it was really awful it It had no ratings.

It was really difficult to make behind the scenes, all of that. But when I joined GB News, we had a decent enough relationship and I interviewed him and we were planning to meet up again when he was in London. His wife was a big fan of my show, et cetera, et cetera. And then Byline Times started running all of these untrue stories about me. And he, he jumped on the bandwagon. I just thought this is not a critical thinker, Ben, this is not someone who actually can look at the facts and work out what's true and what's not. He's actually been totally blinded by a hard left ideology. And I think it's made him quite nasty. And it really is impacting his legacy, Ben Habib. You almost just sort of wish he would stop talking, you know, because Fawlty Towers and Monty Python made him a legend.

But he's losing that status, I think. Well, I mean, you know, the greatest thing about Monty Python and John Cleese was that they would be provocative. They'd force us to think. Anti-establishment. Anti-establishment. And that's antithetical to the whole liberal order, which shuts down free speech. And I know that he's made comments against the shutting down of free speech. He's very much against cancel culture. So it's curious that he's pro the EU and so on, because actually to be pro the EU is to be pro the liberal globalist order, anti-democracy, anti the ability to think freely, and all the rest of it. So I think, again, we've got someone in John Cleese, supremely bright,

but hasn't really thought about his own political philosophical framework. Where does he sit? You know, I think he's just, you know, slightly confused. It sounds so patronising. And I don't mean it that way because, you know, this guy was so witty, he must be so bright, but he does have confusing views on things and they don't seem to be joined up. No, not at all. They're absolutely not joined up in any way. And, yeah, look, I would never tell someone

not to express their free speech. I mean, of course they can. But unfortunately, I'd just say John Cleaves has proven himself to be someone who is very sucked in by the narrative. And look, he's a Lib Dem, actually. That's what it comes down to. He's a Lib Dem. Which is neither liberal nor democratic, actually.

Exactly. Well, look, Ben Habib, how can people... Look, I think a lot of the Outspoken audience is going to be very interested in the Great British Pack. So what can we do? Like, can we join up? You can go and register. Please register so that we know who you are. We know how to contact you. We've got a policy platform on our website and you can go and give us your policy ideas. And you can also donate. I'm not chasing people for money, but if they wish to donate, that's great.

You know, we had lots of donations just on the announcement of the pack. And then the other thing I'd really like you to do, Dan, because you are a first-class interviewer and I'm not just blowing hot smoke up your proverbial, but I think you are absolutely brilliant. What I'd love you to do is get Claire Boulevard on your show, who is actually the chief executive of the

Great British Party. I would love to. Okay well look Ben you have to twist her arm because I'm good friends with Claire. I have asked and outspoken many times and she likes to say I'm the behind the scenes woman which I think is a real shame because she's such a great spokesperson for this country. So no let's do it

Ben. Let's twist her arm. You maybe will have to come back with her and hold her hand or something, but let's do it because I think my audience would absolutely love Claire Bullivan. But as I say, I'm a big supporter of what you're doing, big supporter of the Great British Pack. And it's so great to have you back on Outspoken. We will speak very soon. Thank you, Dan. Thank you for having me on. Thank you. Now, oh my goodness, it is the tightest vote ever for greatest britain union jackass i know we've only been going so far this week but all of the results so far have been totally clear cut so this is my final call if you want to vote for greatest britain Jackass. Do it now in the live chat because it's been topsy-turvy throughout the show.

Peter Mandelson for the Trump U-turn and Lisa Nandy for her decision to give all the money to the BBC. I'm battling each other. It is so, so tight. I can tell you John Swinney hasn't won. Okay? So this is the last call. If you want to change the vote, because it is so tight, the lead keeps changing, go in and vote in the live chat for Peter Mandelson

or Lisa Nandy now. While I do that, I just want to take a look at some of your comments over the course of the show. Lots coming in about Calvin Robinson, of course, which is to be expected. Margaret and Stephen Payton posted they have obviously been waiting for an excuse to cancel Calvin. It was interesting, actually. I was speaking to my friend earlier in the day who has been so supported by Calvin through very difficult times, but her theory was exactly the same. She thought they were looking for an excuse. A slightly different point of view from Kareem KM, who says he should have been reprimanded, but religious leaders get involved with politics, and that's a no-no. Jesus himself said, my kingdom is no part of this world. And Laura

Clegg said, I'm not surprised at how people in the church have taken action. They are the most judgmental and unforgiving people. I do not feel Calvin did anything wrong. I will never go to church. On Brexit and the whole Piers Morgan debacle, he now says he wants another vote. Maggie Payton writes, Piers Morgan can jump right back into his basket. We voted, you lost.

Build a bridge and bloody get over it, Maggie. That's, oh, yes, exactly. And the thing is, if you keep on harking back, then actually you're talking the country down. And John Caponi says Piers doesn't know himself, what he wants, he changes depending on his guest and this is interesting actually ben habib's got a new supporter tonight this is from change begins and i don't know if change begins as a hero she so they said first time i've heard ben habib talk for a long period because i usually avoid politics nowadays because the labor and tories are too alike it's noisy 18 and I am a big fan of his now. Okay, we're about to end the vote.

But just before I do that, let me take you through the nominations for Greatest Britain and Union Jackass. And okay, goodness. I don't know what we do when it's this close. But anyway, let me take you through the nominations. Nominee one was Peter Mandelson, nomination by Faye because of his screeching U-turn on Donald Trump. And Sarah Booth actually also described him as Sir Mandel Slime for his groveling. Nomination two, Lisa Nandy, nominated by It's Only Me, 44 Mark, for looking at ways of keeping the BBC well-funded before the broadcaster's charter ends in 2027.

And nominee three, John Swinney, nominated by Lisa because the Scottish government has revealed there are more untraceable millions. And, wow, it's our first tie. So we can't choose. So we have two union jackasses tonight. 6% of the vote went to John Swinney, but an equal number of votes to Lisa Nandy and Peter Mandelson with 46% of the vote each. I told you it was close. Look. Great. And what we're going to do, by the way, is on Friday, we will name the worst person in the world this week. And for that, I'm going to put up

a special poll in my community on Thursday with all of the winners of Union Jackass from Monday to Thursday, if that makes sense. So Lisa Nandy and Peter Mandelson will both be available to be voted for. So goodness me, it was a very, very tight one this week. Greatest Britain today. Well, look, there's only one choice. I'm sure you understand why Father Calvin Robinson wins. I've had so many positive nominations nominations for him maggie said they can't stand his popularity leeson who's at fallen toa said calvin robinson is a straight talker and

doesn't take any shit from anyone now don't go anywhere apart from substack because in the uncancelled after show today which you can watch if you sign up at www.outspoken.live lady colin campbell unleashed after tucker carlson claimed megan markle does not represent black people in the u.s so i'm going to explain what tucker carlson said we will look at what tucker carlson said and then get lady c's reaction www.outspoken.live. That's my substat. Remember, you can sign up to me completely for free on substat too, even though I don't agree with John Cleese on many things. The one thing I guess I do agree with him on is that substat is a really important platform, though, of course, I remain on X. Don't worry about that. So we're back tomorrow,

5pm UK time, midday Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hit subscribe if you're watching on YouTube or Rumble. I promise to keep fighting for you. That is the most important thing. And I hope to see you on Substack in just one moment for the after show with Lady Colin Campbell. We'll be right back. We'll see you next time.