Dan Wootton Outspoken - GB NEWS CIVIL WAR AFTER CHRISTMAS SACKINGS + MANCHESTER COPS CLEARED AFTER REFORM CAMPAIGN

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

Finally a charge in the Manchester Airport police attack. But only after a major campaign on this show and by Reform UK. Why did it take nearly SIX MONTHS to ignore the grifter lawyers and back the completely innocent cops? Dan will analyse in his Digest and then reaction from his Superstar Panel Harrison Pit and Lois Perry. PLUS: The GB News bloodbath sparks a civil war. Dan will reveal the hypocrisy of Mark Dolan. AND: JK Rowling declares she’s the new Winston Churchill as her row with India Willoughby erupts on social media. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: Angela Levin has a major royal exclusive on why Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are furious with Prince William and Catherine. Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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and subscribe to our brand new independent news source. And I have to tell you, there was a very special moment after the show last night at the HQ of my amazing producer's launch pod because look at this it was the exact moment that we hit 250 000 subscribers that is the best possible christmas present for me thank you so much for all of your support we only launched in july so it's a pretty incredible moment but if you are watching this video and you are not subscribed, hit that button now. It's completely free. Turn on the notification bell and spread the word about Outspoken. Today is actually the last Uncancelled After Show of 2024, but we will be here with new episodes as normal at 5pm UK time, midday Eastern, 9am Pacific. Very special week next week.

The Lady Colin Campbell Awards on Monday. Ben Habib counting down the top 10 union jackasses of 2024 on Tuesday. And then on Christmas Day, Father Calvin Robinson. So don't go anywhere. Breaking right now, finally a charge in the Manchester airport police attack, but only after a major campaign on this show and by Reform UK. So why did it take nearly six months to ignore the grifter lawyers and back the completely innocent cops?

I'll analyse in my digest next. Then my superstar panel weigh in. Today, a return for the fellow at the New Culture Institute and the senior editor of the European conservative Harrison Pitt and making her outspoken debut, the Heartland Institute UK and Europe Executive Director Lois Perry. Can't wait to speak to them both. Also coming up on the show today, Farage has Labour spooked after another mega win overnight.

JK Rowling declares she's the new Winston Churchill as her row with India Willoughby erupts on social media. And the GB News bloodbath sparks a civil war. I'll reveal the hypocrisy of Mark Dolan. Then in the uncancelled after show, Angela Levin has a major royal exclusive on why Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are furious with Prince William and Catherine. The cheek of that. Plus a very serious update on the King's cancer battle. And the uncancelled after show, you know, you know, it's now broadcast exclusively daily and on demand on my Substack for the final time

this year. So this is time for me to plug Substack. It's a free speech platform. Please enter your email address, hit subscribe. You can do so completely for free. If you do want to support the show though, financially, you can subscribe to a monthly paid membership for access to the after show live or on demand Monday to Friday. And as I say, the uncancelled after show returns in 2025. But now let's go. Britain's two-tier justice system is creaking and cumbersome, weighed down by woke priorities, political pressure, manipulation by human rights lawyers and campaigns on social media. And nothing sums that up more than the despicable case of the quite clearly unprovoked attack

on armed police officers at Manchester Airport. But in July, just days after Slippery Starmer became Prime Minister, all those suspects tried to create Britain's George Floyd moment, with the release of a highly edited, totally misleading video on X, suggesting that two, quote, innocent men had been the victim of police brutality. Of course, days later, footage emerged thanks to a leak to a journalist showing no such thing. But the problem is that by that point, the authorities had overreacted. They were stuck in a rut. No one seemed to give a damn about the female police officer who had her nose broken in this confrontation. Or by the way, what about the fact that these are armed officers? So this type of confrontation can really put the public at threat. Today, far too late, common sense

prevailed with Mohammed Armaz, 20, charged with two offences of causing actual bodily harm, one charge of assaulting an emergency worker and one charge of common assault. Meanwhile, Mohammed Ahmad, 25, is charged with causing actual bodily harm. But the big news, the significant news, is that no police officers will be charged. Hallelujah. Sly News obviously wasn't delighted having to break that piece of news. Breaking news. Breaking news. It relates to an incident at Manchester Airport in the summer, 23rd of July 2024. You might remember a high profile incident with the police and arresting a number of individuals and some of it was recorded on camera and some of it showed some force used. Well, two men have been charged

with offences after an incident at that Manchester airport, 23rd of July. The CPS has charged them with assault on police officers. Their name's Mohammed Amaz, 20, with two offences of causing actual bodily harm, one charge of assaulting an emergency worker and one charge of common assault. And Mohammed Ahmad, 25, is charged with causing actual bodily harm. No police officers will be charged. This is just coming across right now.

And, of course, the headline there, two individuals charged with assaulting police officers, but no police officers have been charged. And the two defendants will appear at Liverpool Magistrates Court on Thursday, the 16th of January. Any analysis from the mainstream media, though, about the insanity that it has taken this long, given the alleged attack was captured on CCTV, and given that those involved in the so-called riots after the Southport massacre have already been locked up with the key thrown away, in many cases. Now, you've got to remember the grift

that was involved in their case. Do you remember when their ridiculous first lawyer, Ahmed Yacoub, claimed that one of his clients had been the victim of an assassination attempt? The family are OK, but they are traumatised. Mohammed Fahir, his medical condition has worsened since last night. A CT scan has revealed there is a cyst on his brain. So please pray for his well-being. Right now, the main concern for us, for me, is that the family received justice and this no longer happens again.

Then the MSM lapped up this press conference with their new lawyer trying to present them as victims. Now, of course, I'm not for a single second suggesting there's any guilt here, because of course I believe in due process. But I will say that once again, it was left to Reform UK to do the real work of opposition and make this happen. Watch. The Southport riots led to immediate arrests and in some cases imprisonment, not just for those that threw bricks, but for those who said things online. Yet the appalling attack on police officers at Manchester airport has been completely ignored. We think, as Reform UK, this is as clear an illustration of two-tier policing, two-tier justice in two-tiers Britain as you could possibly see. And we promised a few weeks ago that if the Crown Prosecution Service did not lay some charges against these men who remember even

broke the nose of a woman's police officer that we would take out a private prosecution. And Richard Tice, my deputy leader, has news. So let's remind ourselves, this assault took place on the 23rd of July. Here we are in the second half of November, no news whatsoever. As former reform spinner Gwaine Towler put it today, at long last there is no conceivable reason why this has taken so long. Reform UK and Richard Tice seem to have succeeded in chipping their CPS along without threatened private prosecution. But the way this case was managed is further proof of the two-tier justice that has infected every aspect of Britain's judicial system.

As one of our best legal minds, Stephen Barrett, put it today, no one will forget how long this took. But now, the Uncancelled interview. And I am delighted to welcome back to Outspoken today, Harrison Pitt, who is a fellow at the New Culture Forum, host of the brilliant show Deprogrammed and senior editor at the European Conservative. And joining Outspoken for the first time, Lois Perry, the UK and Europe Executive Director of the Heartland Institute. And I know we'll speak about Nigel a bit later in the show, Lois, but he was the star guest alongside yourself and Liz Truss at the launch of the Heartland Institute this week. Congratulations.

It's so important that this is coming to the UK. Harrison was there too. Actually, so many great outspoken people were there. Anne Whittakin, Lady Colin Campbell, Liz Truss, Connor Thomas. And honestly, it was such a good event, Lois. So congratulations. You're back because, of course, you were UKIP leader very briefly, weren't you? Yes, I had a brief leadership of briefly the leader of UKIP. And then I had some time out and some time off because I've been extremely unwell with pneumonia. And I was told to take three months off. And in actual fact, I took two days off because I was elected the leader of UKIP two days after coming out of hospital.

So, you know, I actually listened to the doctors, had three months off. And yeah, now I'm back. I'm very, very privileged to be heading up the heartland in the UK and Europe. And thank you so much for coming to my party. It's magic. No, it was a brilliant, brilliant night. And I'm going to show a little bit of what Nigel Farage had to say later on. But Harrison Pitt, can we kick off with this breaking news? The Manchester airport attackers finally charged. But this should never have taken so long, should it, Harrison? And it does just show how our justice system, not is a two tier justice system now, but is so

influenced by political pressure, social media pressure, and actually woke ideology, because I will never forget that they wanted the public to believe that this was the UK version of George Floyd, and it was nothing of the sort. It's also, thank you for having me again, Dan. It's also, it's fascinating when the justice system goes into overdrive and when it decides to drag its heels. In the aftermath of the Southport riots, of course, many of them were riots, many of them were just peaceful protests. Much of what happened there, as we discussed before, Dan, was just people engaging in sort of nasty rage rhetoric online that, as far as I'm concerned, the law shouldn't have taken an interest in at all.

These were not plausible threats of incitement in many cases, and yet lots of people have landed themselves in jail, not just for violence, but for tweets. The entire justice system in the aftermath of that went into overdrive because in that case, the justice system being infected, as you say, with woke ideology, because according to the dictates of woke ideology, the host population of Britain, the white British population that was righteously infuriated by what had happened in Southport, gets classed as a certified oppressor. And as a result, the justice system goes into overdrive in order to punish people who express opinions that are verboten according to woke ideology whereas on the other hand in this case of course we have in the case of these two men who are now going to be charged

and you're quite right to say that we shouldn't prejudge the case but suffice it to say there was plenty of probable cause that was widely available online. This wasn't exactly a complex evidence-gathering mission. There should have been prosecutions coming forward instantaneously, but because in this case we're talking about what, according to the Dictates of Work ideology, gets classified as an accredited victim group, because this is a minority community, a sort of tribal interest group living in this country. The police are absolutely petrified, particularly in the aftermath of the Macpherson report in 1998, since which they've been actively trying to pursue social justice in order to, social justice so-called, in order to brandish their sort of

anti-racist credentials. They were terrified of, you know, they were terrified of igniting those sorts of combustible sensitivities that we often see happen when we have these poorly assimilated tribal interest groups living in our towns and cities. For these tribal interest groups themselves, that they regard the impartial application of the law as an interference in their own internal affairs, because they think of themselves in many cases as a kind of nation within a nation and to be dealt with by authorities like the police through community leaders drawn from their own race, drawn from their own ethnicity, drawn from their own religion. And because our sort of cowed police force and because our cowed CPS and because our cowed justice system as a whole in the aftermath of the McPherson report is petrified of ticking those people off and potentially leading to loss of community cohesion.

They drag their heels in those cases. So, yeah, you're quite right. It's a textbook case of two tier justice in this country and very illustrative of the ideology that drives that anarchorannous dynamic. Totally, because Lois Perry, the thing that worries me so much is what if the Manchester Evening News had never publicly revealed the full CCTV footage so we could all see with our own eyes what happened? What if that footage had never been released? I mean, the police were furious and actually seemed more furious that Manchester Evening News had got that footage rather than actually worrying about what had happened. And in some cases, those footage won't exist. And this is my real fear. There is a rush to judgment now. We absolutely believe in guilty before proven innocent. And people should always remember, if you see a video on social media, if you hear a claim on social media, quite often you're only getting one side of the

story. And in this case, that is now proven to be true, given not necessarily that these two men are guilty, but given the police officers have not been charged. So that means the CPS believes they did not do something where there is a serious chance that they could be prosecuted in a court of law. Well, you're absolutely right. But it seems that it's only guilty until proven innocent when it's people who are, you know, against or pro the woke, sorry, against the woke ideology. It's all just one sided. but i just like and you're absolutely right if this footage didn't exist we would never have known the truth so how many truths that we've been told in the past um are just complete fabrications but we have no evidence to you know to contradict that but i'd just like to make a point about the how the americans see us based on all these jailing people for tweets and social media stuff.

I mean, when I was negotiating, talking to the Heartland USA, and we were talking about setting up Heartland UK and Europe over here, one of the only reservations that they had, actually, was that I personally, or that they could end up in court for, you know, for tweets or for social media posts. I mean, one of their top lawyers, one of their top directors said, you know, could I end up in prison because you don't you know, you don't have the same rights in the UK to freedom of speech as we have in the States. They were really, really concerned.

They thought that if I question net zero on for example your show or gb news or anything like that that not only could i be thrown into prison but that they would be financially and legally liable in the us as well so at the damage that has been done to our reputation on the other side of the pond i didn't realize how enormous it was dan until i was speaking to the heartland usa about their concerns yeah totally and what do you make lois of the role that reform uk has played in actually well getting this uh well getting the cPS to, I would argue, do their job? Well, reform, I don't think, you know, it takes much stretch of the imagination.

You know what I'm going to say. Reform are the heroes, aren't they? They're the good guys in all of this. They're the common sense heroes. They're the people that are representing the not-so-silent majority of people in this country. And, you know, you saw how well they did at the last general election. I believe that they will win the next general election and that Nigel Farage will become prime minister.

But it seems that reform are the only people actually doing the correct things. And people believe in them on the left and the right. They're picking up, you know, as you spoke about earlier, as many Labour voters, disgruntled Labour voters, as Tories. You know, they seem to represent everyone. And, you know, thank God. Thank God that we've got them. I know.

Thank God we've got them indeed. Well, on a similar note, breaking right now, another massive Reform UK win overnight. Look at this. Richard Tye says another great win for Reform UK. Massive swing away from Labour. Tories slipping away. And the figures are quite extraordinary. Let me just look closely at this from the election maps UK. So this is in the Milton Regis Swale Council by-election. The Labour councillor stood down over safety issues.

And there's Labour down 33%. And who enters on 33.9% from a standing start? Reform UK. The Conservatives there at 12.3%. And what is particularly fascinating for me is that the Reform UK movement, and specifically Nigel Farage, is already influencing government policy. And this is very positive if you're a Brexit supporter like me. So revealed by Politico in the past few hours is the fact that the Brexit minister, this is Nick Thomas Simons, has directly admitted to members of the European Parliament, that the reason why his government's proposed reset with the EU appears relatively timid is because of Nigel Farage. So let me just tell you exactly what this article said. According to one EU official present at the recent talks,

Thomas Simmons told the MEPs he'd love to do more, but that Nigel Farage's upstart Europhobic reform outfit had come second to Labour in 89 constituencies at the election, making a closer embrace of the EU politically problematic. An official who was present at the talks, an EU official, told Politico he was apologetic, he said that he wanted to go further. And the official added, I don't understand being scared of your own shadow in the first six months of your five year term. So Harrison Pitt, it's so interesting, isn't it? Because you have the mainstream media and you have most of the political establishment in public trying to dismiss Nigel Farage and say things like, oh, reform are irrelevant. I've got five seats. We're not worried.

Behind the scenes, true terror. And even just having Nigel Farage in parliament is potentially going to at least partly protect Brexit. Yes, uh they oscillate don't they between um calling outlets populist outlets like uh reform irrelevant but then also talking about them obsessively um you can't have it both ways you know they would they wouldn't be occupying your mind if um if uh their activities in politics weren't becoming more and more salient. And I should say as well that I think the timing of this pickup that reform has had, I've been, as you know, Dan, I've been critical of some softening of rhetoric and reform in the last six months or so. But I understand that they've got to be, they're playing a long game.

And so I don't want to be sort of aggressively counter-signalling them. However, I do think it's perfect timing because it's exactly at this time that Starmer himself has, in my view, quite persuasively outflanked Kemi Badenoch, not least on immigration from the right. I mean, he has been talking about how the Conservatives, and this is all true by the way, embarked on an open borders experiment, a global Britain experiment, like using rhetoric, which five years ago would have had people like us accused of, you know, being one step removed from fascism or whatever else it might be.

And he's quite persuasively doing that. And in a way, the Conservatives have given Stalmer a real gift, precisely because net immigration is now currently running at about 900,000. All Starmer really needs to do is get it down to, say, 450,000. If he cuts it in half, that's still 450,000. That's still far too much for my liking. And yet he can present it as a great victory. So while Starmer is having success in his battle with the Conservatives, I think it's very, very good news that reform seems to be a clipping at Labour's heels in those traditionally quite Labour heartlines. And by the way, I should add, just to finish off, that I don't think that people who live in, if you look at where the riots were primarily concentrated, it was precisely in

those sorts of, in the kind of the Red War, you know, the labour heartlands, not least towns like Rotherham and Rochdale, which have experienced the really nightmarish aspects of diversity in the form of the industrial rape gangs. I think that Starmer's cloth-eared response to that whole affair, where he basically just wants to demonise everybody and not take their legitimate concerns seriously, I don't think they're ever going to forget that. And since they're not going to go to the Conservatives, reform is the only credible alternative for those people. So it's no wonder that reform are making those inroads and will no doubt continue, not least with some of that mask bucks to continue making such inroads. So we'll see.

Yes. Lois Perry, where do you stand on those issues that Harrison spoke about at the top of his answer, though? The fact that a lot of people on the right who are people who we love, people who we respect, a lot of the people who were at the Heartland Institute launch are saying reform is tacking too much towards the centre. Not enough talk about mass deportations, not enough talk about changing demography. And also that way that I guess Tommy Robinson and his supporters have been derided as that lot.

Do you share any of those concerns, Lois? Well, it was always my intention when I campaigned to be the leader of UKIP and I never heard it ever that I wanted to unite both the parties under one umbrella and Tommy Robinson not necessarily his supporters but Tommy Robinson personally because of his criminal history and because of other other things that are known and might not be publicized but are known about him personally he would never be able to be brought into a party that could actually be elected and and actually form a government there was no way that that could happen and one of the reasons that I resigned my leadership, as well as health issues, was that they were back channeling to Tommy personally and weren't taking any notice of me.

So the actual, what I campaigned on, the uniting the right, bringing the parties together, making an electable reform party merged with UKIP, would never be able to happen. It would never be able to happen. It would never be able to happen. I do believe that saying that lot was clumsy. And I think there is a big distinction between Tommy Robinson personally and Tommy Robinson's supporters. So, but the thing is, reform need to be electable and they are being judged much more harshly than all the other political parties. If Nigel stood there and said mass deportations of anyone that is the wrong background or whatever, can you imagine?

They would crucify him. They would go absolutely mad. But what he has said is that there should be deportations of anyone who comes into the country illegally, who then immediately breaks the law. But, you know, the rhetoric has to be slightly more careful for reform. You know, everyone's out to get them, Dan, everyone. And they need to be, they just have to be on the line, on the line. So, Harrison, how do you respond to that? Because UKIP have gone completely the other direction now. Lois's successor as leader, Nick Tencone, who was on the show earlier this week, has made it very clear that he wants Tommy Robinson to stand as a candidate for UKIP. He thinks Tommy Robinson could end up

in Parliament. So do you share concerns that Lois has about this splintering of the right, or do you think it's a mistake for reform to be so, I guess, dismissive of wanting Tommy Robinson supporters? Because arguably, you could say, how can you unite the right if you take that view of Robinson supporters as that lot? Yes, you certainly shouldn't be talking about them in that fashion. I would respond by saying that reform is going to be crucified if it so much as dares

to wake up in the morning and brush its teeth. I mean, the media is never, ever going to give reform a fair shake. And so rather than treating the media as the proper, implicitly treating the mainstream media as the legitimate arbiters of moral authority in Britain, particularly at a time when we're living through a digital revolution, I mean, your show represents this, Dan. The mainstream media in many ways has never been in such low water. And in the United States, we saw Trump precisely on that kind of platform talking explicitly about mass deportations,

talking about leaving the UN Refugee Convention. He's now appointed Tom Homan, this sort of knucklehead is Scots-Irish border czar who's going to embark on the largest deportation in American history, even larger than the one that Eisenhower trialed in the 1950s. I do think that we're living through a time of immense political ferments. And as a result, people's loyalties, people's voting loyalties, people's political loyalties are never going to be more up for grabs than they are now. So rather than being too pedestrian, rather than being too timid, in my view, reform should be showing immense leadership on this and sort of, you know, making the moral and political case for what needs to happen in Britain and trusting that through sheer force of leadership, through sheer force of argument, through sheer force, not least of Trump, potentially doing exactly these sorts of things across the channel.

In other words, it won't be a kind of utopian model, it will be a realistic, pragmatic model that we can point to, occurring concretely in a country that is very similar to ours, namely the United States. It's exactly at this time that reform should be showing ambition, should be radicalising to some extent, or rather presenting what the media calls radical. Yes, because it's not. Yes. It's not because...

Yes, come in, Lois. Sorry, can I just cut in there? It is different. It is very, very different. I mean, I may have got this wrong, and if I have, then I apologise to Nick, but I'm pretty sure, Nick Tencone, that I've seen him in public and in private call for deportations of Muslims that were even born in this country. I'm sorry, but Donald Trump has never, ever called for mass deportation of individuals based on their religion who were born in the USA, ever.

It's a slightly, slightly different rhetoric here. And I would say you never win elections in this country unless you win over the Daily Mail. And the Daily Mail people and Middle England are not going to like this extremely Islamophobic rhetoric. See, I've always said I'm very, very anti-Islamism, but I'm not anti-Islam. And UKIP has really gone really, really far that way. And so I think it's perfectly acceptable

to not, for me personally, to like Tommy Robinson as a person, but to not dislike his supporters. Because I think, and I've said this before. The problem is though, Lois, the problem is, right, and this is where I'm with Harrison, the mainstream media are never going to accept Reform UK. The Daily Mail, and remember, I was a columnist for the Mail Online up until 2023. They were claiming that Reform UK was far right during the election campaign. So the Daily

Mail are not an honest broker anymore. And I think things are changing so much that we no longer have to rely on the mainstream media trying to keep this two party system going at any cost. Because actually, when we look at the daily mail saying we're far right for voting reform uk what do we think i don't trust you anymore i don't trust a word that you say anymore because we are not far right for voting without breaking any confidences can i just say i think that positions are changing i really do I think that, you know, certain people are seeing which way the wind is blowing and they don't want to be on the wrong side of history. I can't say any more than that.

But things are changing. And when I talk about the Daily Mail, I don't necessarily mean the Daily Mail as in the paper or the online thing. I mean the kind of people who have traditionally read the mail. I don't think that the reason why reform is not embracing Tommy personally is because they're scared of the media. I think that you just don't want an association with him and certain elements.

But as I say, it's perfectly acceptable to say that Tommy Robinson supporters are good people and well-intentioned people with legitimate concerns without being a fan of him as an individual. I don't see why they have to be conflated. Because all Tommy Robinson wants, by the way, is for Reform UK to stop attacking him. That's all that he wants.

He doesn't actually want entry into the party or anything like that. He just wants the attacks to stop. But look, I think where Farage has been very strong, and this is where I wanted to show a little portion of what he said at the launch, Lois, of the Heartland Institute, is on the issue of nut zero. Because while Labour... Nut zero. That's my line. It's going to catch on, Lois. It's going to catch on. But while Labour is focused on rolling back Brexit,

what I love about Nigel is he's looking ahead and he has seen the next Brexit and the next Brexit, in his opinion, and my opinion too, is not zero madness. Watch. But those of us that thought differently about these things were condemned, mocked, derided. Whilst out of the country, a different conversation was happening. Believe me, net zero is the next Brexit.

Net zero is the next Brexit. Thank you. And Harrison Pitt, that's what I love about Farage. And yes, we can be critical on certain aspects. But what I love is he's already thinking about the next big battle. And actually, I believe he's right on this. Ed Miliband is bankrupting us. The mainstream media are in cahoots.

The Conservative Party are in cahoots. Let's start talking about that. Yes, science has been weaponised to try and saddle us and burden us with presently the most expensive industrial energy costs in the world. The net zero agenda written into law by Theresa May in 2019 is heavily implicated in that act of economic self-harm. On the Brexit point, I think it's interesting that Farage used that phraseology, talking about it being the next Brexit. I should say that I do, I want the immigration question to be the next Brexit more than I want Net Zero to be the next Brexit. But nevertheless, I think one of the things that you cannot take away from Farage and I would never dream of taking it away from Farage

is his skills as a campaigner and I think his real success with Brexit was linking what was hitherto considered quite a an obscure niche constitutional issue namely our membership of the European Union which used to attract these very thoughtful people like Bill Cash and John Redwood. But what Farage did very effectively is he linked that quite stuffy argument, as it was in the 1990s, to mass immigration. He's really good at connecting these things to bread and butter concerns rather than them being too abstract as they were if you were reading Bill Cash's speeches in the 90s, which very few people were, God bless him. And I think what Farage is going to do with net zero and what I think he'll be quite effective at doing with net zero is relating it, because it is, as Lois knows, quite technical question.

That requires think tanks like the Heartland Institute to go through the weeds. But I think what Farage is going to be very good at doing is relating it to those bread and butter concerns. And in this case, rather than the bread and butter concern being immigration, it will be the cost of living. So if Farage can effectively relate net zero in people's minds with the cost of living, I think he has a real chance of winning over people's loyalties. As I said, this is the time to be doing that. It's the time to be bold.

It's the time to be fearless. Big time. Amen to that. Breaking right now, J.K. Rowling has marked five years as a gender-critical campaigner by suggesting she will self-identify as Winston Churchill in a brutal dig at India Willoughby. So the Harry Potter author posted on X, and look at the geniuses at Grok who have perfectly actually presented J.K. Rowling as Winston Churchill. But she posted on X saying, the thing is, India Willoughby, I really do enjoy cigars, whiskey, and facing down totalitarians. So by the same arguments that make you a woman, I am indeed

Churchill. Now, this was quite a day for J.K. Rowling because five years ago, her life changed. She went from being the toast of the liberal elite, beloved in Hollywood, invited to every A-list party going, to all of a sudden, persona non grata, being slagged off by the horrible little toads that she made famous, that she made rich, like Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson, Rupert Grint, and even Eddie Redmayne. And it's fascinating when we look back five years ago to think what caused this mass hysteria. And this is what J.K. Rowling posted five years ago, which will go down in history as one of those public statements, I believe, that changed culture. So this was her tweet at the time. Five years ago today, and my only regret is that I didn't speak out sooner. Sorry, so this is what she posted setting up the tweet.

To every girl and woman who's paid a heavy price for fighting to retain their rights and boundaries, to every person striving to halt an appalling medical experiment, on minors, I salute you, we will win. But this was her original tweet, December 19th, 2019. Dress however you please. Call yourself whatever you like. Sleep with any consenting adult who'll have you. Live your best life in peace and scrutiny. But force women out of their jobs Now, Benjamin Ryan, the writer, asked J.K. Rowling a simple question after she made this post. If you could rewrite that first post from 2019, what, if anything, would you say differently? And J.K. Rowling replied, nothing. It's all there. I love gender nonconformity. I always have and always will. At the same time, sex is real. Sex-based offending is real. And I'll always

stand with the vulnerable against an elitist ideology that has caused untold damage. But I think it's fair to say, Harrison Pitt, that J.K. Rowling has certainly become braver in her rhetoric over the past five years, certainly become bolder. And what I love is that she uses her great intellect and her real wit to, for example, make the point that if India Willoughby is going to identify as a man, J.K. Rowling will identify as Winston Churchill. What do you make of it, Harrison?

Yes, I mean, this is one of the many slam dunk arguments against trans ideology. If there really is this kind of Cartesian separation between mind and body and our physical characteristics, our biological nature exists independently of our psychological convictions and our mental states, our mental life. If these are entirely independently separate entities, then if you can change gender, why on earth can you not change overall personality? If this is the logical consequence of what some philosophers call expressive individualism, namely your identity is purely contingent

upon whatever psychological convictions you might have. And trans ideology, of course, taps into that intuition that many modern people have. And if you have talented wordsmiths like J.K. Rowling pushing that logic to its absurd conclusions, then that's a good thing for our movement, I suppose. And the thing is, Lois Perry, is that India Willoughby is just on a grift, right? Because she used to be totally reasonable about these issues and used to say, oh, no, no, no, we shouldn't be changing science. I just want to identify as a woman.

But this has become a grift for her because arguably she has most fame or more fame than she's ever had in her entire existence because J.K. Rowling challenges her lunacy. Absolutely. This defines her now. She probably uses this and her extreme arguments to define her more than what she sees as her, you know, her gender being wrong or whatever. But it's very, very interesting that I never, ever defined myself as a feminist in any way whatsoever I've always jokingly said it's only half a joke that if there is a patriarchy it served me so well since I was about 12 years old that um you know the more the merrier but I mean you know joking aside things changed for me massively when they said that men could self-identify and go into little girls spaces

changing rooms dressing rooms things like that that's when it got dangerous and then it didn't just get dangerous then it got ludicrous you had the guy in Scotland who was a I think he was a rapist or domestic abuser who literally put the worst wig I've ever seen on a human ever on, said he was a woman and got put into a woman's prison. And that, as you know, was what actually brought down Nicola Sturgeon. Yes. Adam Graham. Because she wouldn't call Adam Graham, the rapist, a man.

I mean. Unbelievable. I mean, I've got a slightly different view to a lot of purists on this. I actually think that if somebody genuinely has gender dysmorphia, they are an adult. They've got, you know, jumped through all the hoops. They've had the operation. They've had two psychiatric assessments. They've done the whole shebang, kit and caboodle. There's so few of those, the way it's unbelievable I personally personally if the you know if they had that would not have a problem with them going into my dressing room I really really wouldn't but I know that a lot of women have very different views to that but what

I do have a problem with is the indoctrination of children the medicalization of children and also a guy called bob puts a wig on and can go and pervert my little girl in primark changing rooms that's what i have a problem with yeah i i agree or well let me put it this way lois i used to agree okay a few years ago before this madness I would have agreed with that argument but I don't anymore because I believe the argument has been hijacked and it has been hijacked by extremists it's been hijacked by rapists it's been hijacked by abusers and also to be honest it's been hijacked by the lowest of the low in the celebrity world, like Sam Smith, the guy who I used to know, who thinks that because he puts on a dress that we should now call him they and that they should get rid of the best female categories at the Brit Awards. That actually happened. No, I totally agree with you.

I totally agree with you. But don't you feel sorry for that tiny minority, the kind of people that you and I, that you used to support before it was hijacked, that they have had this tiny minority of people who are genuine people, have had, as you say, militant groups, grifters, perverts, all sorts of people, celebrities who just want more attention like Sam Smith, that they've ruined it for them.

They've made it somehow horrible, whereas in the past people were much more live and let live. I don't know. Is that a shame? Well, I understand what you're saying, but the thing is, right, all of a sudden it's gone from dressing however you want. Because, by the way, Boy George was doing Sam Smith's stick back in the 1980s. He just didn't suggest.

I've got a Boy George doll in my bedroom, Dan. And he's great. But he didn't suggest that we call him she or they. He didn't suggest that they should get rid of female award categories. Sam Smith is a bloke. Now, if Sam Smith was going into your daughter's changing room with his penis out in the same way that Leah Thomas was going into the changing room of the swimmer Riley Gaines

with his penis out. I'm sorry, I think all parents should have a problem with that, Harrison Pitt. And does that mean that maybe some people now receive harsher treatment? Well, possibly, but unfortunately, that is where we're at. Shame. You're pushing at an open door with me there, Dan, saying that that's going to

warrant harsher treatment. All I will say to Lois, maybe by way of not so much rejecting her argument, but more qualifying it, is that I do feel immense sympathy with anyone who's struggling. You know, if my, you know, well, my grandfather no longer with us had dementia, and he would often be in very sort of confused mental states. There was one time when, actually, I won't go into that. But okay, put it this way. If you had a grandfather who was suffering with dementia, and all of a sudden thought, well, it's on topic, let's say, thought he was Napoleon, or thought he was Winston Churchill, you would feel sorry for that person. But feeling sorry for that person doesn't mean necessarily that you affirm those delusions.

There's a difference between compassion, which will often require sturdy, stern treatment in the person's interest and and indulgence, which in my view is just neglect under another name. Yeah, the other thing that's upset me a bit about this whole thing is that another thing that i love um and have always loved is um is drag drag artists drag clubs and drag performances and i feel that because of of these the militant stuff that's been going on this very ancient form of performance for drag means dressed as a girl it's written on all of shakespeare's scripts you know dressed as a girl that this kind of thing is being vilified and made to look perverted as well whereas most drag performers they just you know like they're like you know widow twanky or whatever in pantomimes they go before they just i know but this is the woke eating themselves this is the

woke eating themselves this is what happens because now i don't watch but apparently the drag race shows now uh have females which is all quite weird we don't watch it anymore it's been ruined recently we don't you know it's all about it's gone woke lois can i ask you though about these horrible little harry potter stars should they apologize to jk rowling now you now? You know, the likes of Emma Watson, Eddie Redmayne, I know he's the fantastic beast, Daniel Radcliffe, Rupert Grint, they all turned on the woman who made them a multimillionaire, who made them a household name just to appease the woke mob. Shouldn't they apologise to her now, Lois? Absolutely, they should apologise to her now Lois absolutely they should apologize to her and it's a shame that they're so fear-ridden that they couldn't start you know stand with her or at least even listen

to her arguments I get the impression that they were advised or just because they're just wokey that age anyway that they just went you know they didn't even listen to her arguments they didn't even take on board her concerns it was just immediate you're a bigger you're a bigger it's a way of shutting somebody down isn't it you're homophobic you're transphobic you're a racist you're you're a fascist it's just a way of shutting people down so yeah 100 they should apologize to her horrible little tykes that they are do you agree, Harrison? I don't think people are duty-bound to agree with people

just because they have enabled them to have starry careers. And of course, it would be foolish to doubt that J.K. Rowling has enabled them to do that. But they didn't just disagree with her, and this is the key point. If they disagreed with her amicably in public, I think it would be rich to say

that they have duties forever and ever to agree with her just because she made the Harry Potter series that series that made them famous but they engage in something much nastier which is a form of sort of reputation uh demolition castigation stigmatization these sorts of things and so yes i think they should have apologized to her although of course they are mainly disgracing not uh the person of jk rowling but the truth very very true very very true okay lois perry harrison pitt do stand by because in just one minute the latest on the civil war at gb news after the bloodbath that saw a whole load of presenters sacked just before Christmas.

But first, you know how often I talk about the need for free speech to be protected. But I've been increasingly thinking of the need for personal protection from snoopers, bad actors and hackers online. I'm delighted to tell you I have found the fail-safe solution. But what's more, this VPN or virtual private network, to use the full term, is also a life changer when it comes to providing you entertainment and information from anywhere in the world, wherever you are. So let me introduce you to Surfshark, an incredible and easy to use service that encrypts all your internet traffic, meaning your online activity stays safe so you can shop, stream, browse and conduct your banking online in complete privacy. But the benefits of Surfshark go way beyond keeping you safe online. It allows you to access your favourite entertainment and news shows and channels,

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unbeatable price, or you can just click on the link in the description box below. What's more, Surfshark is so confident that they are the best VPN in the world that you can give it a try for a full 30 days. And if you're not entirely satisfied, you will get your money back. So surfshark.com forward slash outspoken for an extra four months of Surfshark at an unbeatable price. Just click on the link in the description box below. But now back to the show. Breaking right now, a civil war at GB News after a Christmas bloodbath that saw Mark Dolan and Isabel Webster sacked and Jacob Rees-Mogg's hours, and presumably salary, slashed in half.

Now, Dolan has been lambasted in his bid to present himself as a victim of cancel culture, given the way he slammed Lawrence Fox and attempted to steal my former show with an hours-of-hour suspension from the former free speech channel because of a joke, remember, which I think that overreaction forever destroyed their free speech reputation. But look, last night I made it clear I didn't want to dance on Dolan's grave. So I thought I gave a very fair and measured response. But today on X, he decided to go to war. Writing, breaking, Dan Wooten has launched an extraordinary attack on me, describing me as GB News' management's bitch. I'll be responding on YouTube. So I just want to remind Mark exactly how he became the bitch of GB News

management, who have now brutally sacked him before Christmas, which, by the way, is just awful. So this was the moment when most viewers lost the respect of Mr Dolan. But unless you've been living under a rock or don't have internet access, you'll be aware that GB News presenter Lawrence Fox appeared on the channel last night and made some offensive comments about the journalist Ava Evans. Free speech is everything, but it comes with responsibility. Anything you say or write or broadcast will rightly be exposed to the court of public opinion. I know. I've been there and I'll be there again. Whether Lawrence should

stay on air is not my decision and Dan's absence tonight is also beyond my control. There is an investigation ongoing but the comments made by Lawrence, in my view, were sexist, misogynistic and unusually, in the frenzied climate of the so-called culture wars, have been condemned across But the hypocrisy was off the scale there, given Dolan himself never even stopped his personal attacks. So remember, I lost my job for smirking at a saucy joke after the watershed. But here he was on Victoria Beckham. She's a second rate singer who opened her legs to anyone who wants it. And no damehood Clive. Clive, very, very harsh words there.

And I'm certain that that's not true of Victoria Beckham, who's very happily married and has been for a long time. Victoria is not a national treasure with you. As Charlie Sansom wrote at the time, the double standards never cease at GB News. Mark Dolan sent out a very explicit email from a viewer provided to him by producers to then immediately apologise afterwards because the viewer suggested something rather negative about Victoria Beckham. I thought Dan Wooten and Lawrence Fox

set an editorial precedent about criticisms of women on air. Or perhaps that only applies to presenters the management no longer value. While I certainly do not wish for Dolan's disgraceful bullying of Catherine, the Princess of Wales. When folk like me were warning very clearly, publicly, to the world, I mean, I remember I appeared on Megan Kelly's show in the States to say, be careful with what you're saying about Catherine, because I know she is very unwell. This was the coverage that Dolan provided on GB News. And some are even suggesting that Princess Catherine has an Adam's apple.

But I seriously doubt that she is the first trans royal. But if the pilots have nothing to hide, they should publish the original photograph, which we're told was taken by William. But I doubt they ever will, which is why this story will now enter conspiratorial folklore forevermore. In the end, there is a lesson for the royal family and for all public figures. Be straight with us. You take a photograph of the family on Mother's Day and you publish it. The very fact that this image has been doctored in any way, even for aesthetic reasons, is a problem for a monarchy that wants to be seen as authentic, real, credible and down to earth. Meanwhile, the questions where is Kate

and what's going on with her health will only get louder. Well, where was she? She was trying to tell her young children that she had been diagnosed with cancer and was about to undergo chemotherapy. And as I say, I never wanted Mark Dolan cancelled for that, but I do think the hypocrisy is off the scale. I do think, though, that perhaps the biggest issue for Mark and so many presenters on GB

News is that they don't actually really have their own principles and views, and they will simply do what they are told. As I said yesterday, Mark Dolan became management's bitch and then management threw him under the bus. Dutifully read the autocue. That's what he did. Not talk about the Southport Massacre cover-up or Tommy Robinson or Katie Hopkins or anyone else who is deemed banned by management. But the problem for Mark is that his true feelings have been revealed over the past couple of days because the comedian Jonathan Norris tracked down his old tweet. I've checked. It's still available. It was posted by Mark Dolan before the Brexit referendum

where he said, like everyone, I'm a little torn on the referendum, but it's quite clear all the freaks and nutters are for Brexit. Hashtag Farage, hashtag Bojo, hashtag IDS, hashtag Gove. So let me bring in my superstar panel now, Harrison Pitt and Lois Perry. And look, this is a difficult one, Harrison, because I had absolutely no desire to turn this into some sort of war of words. I'm just stating what I see to be the truth about the situation. But at the end of the day, this is the risk, isn't it? If you are part of a big corporation where you can be chucked onto the bus at any moment and you effectively give up your principles and your morals for them. And that was never something I was prepared to do. I was never prepared to do just what I was told to do in my ear. And at the end of the day, I hope that while I did sometimes make mistakes,

my viewers understand that at least you saw the real me this is uh you know naturally I'm on your side Dan um this is this is one of the uh uh this is one of the problems with um with uh trying to walk a fine tightrope on when you are going to lend credibility to the woke moral universe by drawing from it and criticizing others perhaps for status perhaps in order to deflect criticism from yourself there are all sorts of reasons why people who aren't technically woke sometimes lend credibility to that way of thinking for personal reasons. But once you do that, of course, you land yourself in a position where you can be condemned and where you can be attacked and when you can be ditched for precisely the same reasons. So as far as I'm concerned, this underlines the need for two things. One, for us not to treat our opponents

as the legitimate arbiters of moral authority in Britain. Once you've done that, once you've sacrificed the language to them, once you've sacrificed the moral precepts to them, once you sacrifice everything else to them, they have the upper hand on you and you're engaging in battle on their terms. And it also underlines the need for outlets like yours, Dan, Dan Whitten, Outspoken, outlets like the New Culture Forum, outlets like Lotus Eaters, which can truly value free speech without Ofcom breathing down their neck.

So that's what I would say in response to this debacle. Absolutely. And the thing is, Lois, look, of course, I wish Mark Dolan the best. I actually was the person who, perhaps a bit of a folly of mine, but I actually brought him into GB News to begin with. feel about what happened and why I think this new independent world is so critical Lois because I can tell you hand on heart no one tells me what to say here at all no one tells me what to say no one's in my ear telling me not to say that no one's saying oh I have to have a particular political point of view or I can't talk about this, I can't talk about that. There's no billionaires who are pulling the strings. I believe that's the future of the media. And I just would say to people who are at GB News still, do what you really believe because it's not worth selling your soul for a corporation that is going to be prepared to throw you under the bus. I mean,

I put my life into launching GB News that actually came at serious cost to my physical and mental health. Not that I'm going all woke on this, you know, but you know, I cared passionately about making it a success. And then one mistake, or what they considered one mistake, out the door. Brutal. But I learned a big lesson from that. Actually, I don't want to be owned by anyone I only want to be accountable to my audience and that is what I love now I'm only I'm only owned by my entire audience and I find it a beautiful thing well I mean you know I completely completely get what you're saying I had a situation at talk tv where I was told that if i mentioned net zero um at all um i wouldn't be

allowed to keep my show that i was doing with um with andre walker that was the vote that was um so we were in a weird situation where he was allowed to mention net zero and in fact he could have a number of guests on the same shows as me that mentioned net zero but because Ofcom had specifically mentioned me as a dangerous person um I was sitting there on my topic unable to mention net zero and I had to weigh it up I had to weigh up whether me having a profile generally which I could then use to bounce onto the other channels to promote what I was doing, talking about anti-net zero madness, nut zero or not. And in the end, they threw me under a bus.

Yeah, I sold out. Yeah. And then they dumped me anyway. So, you know, I wish I'd been as brave as you i really do um but well we all we all have we all have our moments i mean look i'm not some mr perfect right what happened with the laurence fox situation is that i refused to apologize while the show was on air because i didn't like throwing my guests under the bus for their opinions. I'd always made it so clear to the channel, I'm not going to do that.

I'm not going to be little Mr. Oh, you naughty boy. Naughty Lawrence. Or be devil's advocate for the sake of it. It was an adult show after the 9pm watershed. I thought we were all grown-ups to deal with it. But I did do, and I remember speaking to Megyn Kelly about it at the time, and she described it, Dan, it's your hostage video apology. And she did the same thing when NBC were trying to force her outright over a blackface controversy.

She did the same thing, did the apology. It wasn't even written by me. I didn't feel it. And I regret that. Of course, I regret that. But because at the end of the day, those apologies never save you. They've just got you but well I am proud that on air when I was on air I was always myself I always presented my genuine views and I never gave into the censorship because there was a lot of censorship

going on don't talk about this don't talk about that but as i say i wish mark dolan the best of luck i i truly do but i think everyone in the mainstream media needs to wake up to what is going on well i'm so happy i'm so happy to be on your show i really am dan and i really value your support the other night at the launch of the heartland uk and, at the Heartland Institute for the UK and Europe, because you mentioned Nigel Farage talking about net zero being the next Brexit. Well, you know, I'm not going to blow my own trumpet, but actually I am going to blow my own trumpet. Do it.

My organisation, CAR26, we were the ones that actually influenced Nigel's policy and reform policy to be the only anti-net zero party in parliament um and he's acknowledged that as well in fact the first time i went on his show in gb news he basically accused me of being a bit of a nut i mean you know i might be a bit of a nut but a conspiracy theorist and i had to sit there and defend he said well why would they be doing it if it wasn't about saving the planet I mean obviously he has to play devil's advocate um and um and I said I don't believe this is anything to do with saving the planet but everything to do with the de-industrialization of the west globalization and you know basically

impoverishing us all for um for Marxist policies and he sort of looked at me as if to say well okay good for you that i'd said it but then when one person stands up then everybody else stands up and he's been a big supporter of what i've been doing and the fact that he decided to work so closely now with what i'm doing with the Heartland UK and Europe and use net zero as as his next Brexit is fantastic but as I say on the first show I'm doing talking about this is yours Dan you know I love it and I'm so delighted to have to have you here and Harrison it is actually interesting just finally when we think about Farage and GB News because they want him off. And I believe that Labour, I was actually told, Harrison, by a senior Labour source, even before they were elected, that the whole reason why they

want to change the rules on MPs' second jobs is to get Farage off GB News. And we've seen a very similar thing this week, Harrison, in terms of changing the rules about political donations, simply in order to stop Elon Musk being able to donate to Reform UK. So it's the deep state in action. But I would argue, actually, the most powerful thing Nigel could do is become an independent media player now, because then he wouldn't be regulated by the off communists. And I think he would have an absolutely massive channel overnight. Yes, it's definitely true that people who are off com has yet to be formally, legally and officially updated to try and catch all of us. And that is to say, all of the people who operate in

the kind of digital online media sphere rather than the typical uh the more conventional uh broadcasting sphere that's why you have more freedom here dan that's why we have more freedom here at the new more freedom at the new culture forum and uh and and likewise farage if he were to join um uh uh if he were to set up say his own youtube channel well he always he's already got a youtube channel he's already got a tech talk what i mean is if he were to take his farage show to uh you know to youtube in the same way that you have dan uh that would be a victory that would be a short-term victory i suppose and that it would get him off the hook with as you as you call them the off communists but it would

only be a matter of time before they updated the rules again. I know. And we live in fear about that. But look, what I would say, Harrison, is it's going to be much harder for them to regulate the Internet. Don't get me wrong. They're trying, right? They are trying hard, but it's much easier for them to regulate a couple of actual linear stations in GB News and Talk TV than it is to come for the internet, where all of a sudden they'd be having to censor you or regulate you. They'd be having to regulate me, but they'd also be having to regulate all of the content that comes in from overseas. So Steve Bannon, Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson, it's an

impossible job. So good luck if they want to try and do that, but you'd effectively be turning the UK into a censorship state. But look, don't get me wrong. They are going to try. But well, what an absolutely fabulous superstar panel for today. Thank you both so much. Of course,

Harrison Pitt is senior editor at the European conservative, a fellow at the new culture forum, host of the brilliant d program uh podcast which i really recommend everyone watches i've appeared on it before it is a great show uh he hosts alongside conor tomlinson and lois perry is of course now the uk and europe head of the heartland institute so great to have both of you merry christmas guys and please come back in 2025. Happy Christmas. Bye-bye. Now, coming up in the Uncancelled After Show today,

Angela Levin has a major royal exclusive on why Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are furious with Prince William and Catherine, the cheek of that. But there's also a serious update on the health of King Charles as well. So a lot going on with Angela. You've got to come over to Substack though. That's where we host the Uncancelled After Show. www.outspoken.live. That is our membership section.

It's the last Uncancelled After Show of the year. But don't worry, we are returning in 2025. Seriously though, please subscribe for free on the sub stack. It's all I ask, www.outspoken.life. Then we get to build the direct connection. And I just have to thank you all once more because yesterday, straight after the show, we hit the quarter of a million mark. Look at that. This was the moment it happened in the studio of my brilliant producers. Launch pod is the little party going on. And to do this so quickly is all down to you. If you are watching this though, and you haven't subscribed, it means the world. It

makes a big difference. Just hit subscribe, like, comment. We have such an engaged audience voted my polls so many ways to support Outspoken but uh as I say we have a big week planned even though there's no uncancelled after show I'm still here live five o'clock throughout the Christmas and New Year period on Monday Lady Colin Campbell is in the house on Tuesday Ben Habib will count down the biggest union jackasses of 2024 and then a special Christmas edition with Father Calvin Robinson on Wednesday where we will reveal your greatest Britons of 2024. So see you 5pm UK time Monday, midday Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Most importantly, I promise to keep fighting for you. And I hope to see you on Substack with Angela Levin for the after show in just one moment. you