Dan Wootton Outspoken - HOW NIGEL FARAGE CAN BECOME PM & THE TRUTH ABOUT INVASION OF UK WITH PROF MATT GOODWIN

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

The invasion of Britain continues at pace, with no solution as to how to solve it. But Matt Goodwin – the academic turned strident anti-elite movement leader – has developed a plan to fulfil the wishes of folk who he calls the forgotten majority. In his Digest, Dan reveals Matt’s strategy in a brand new short film and reveals why Nigel Farage in Number 10 is the political force needed to turn the situation around. Then, Matt joins Outspoken live for an in-depth interview. PLUS: Keir Starmer’s latest deception scandal sends the flailing PM into “Prince Harry territory” AND: Jim Davidson’s fury at the safety of Brits being put at risk To watch the exclusive Uncancelled After Show for 30-minutes extra content EVERY weekday, sign up at: https://outspoken.live/premium Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I'm Dan Wharton. This is Outspoken Live, episode number 60. And to support this brand new independent news venture, please bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wharton. This is Outspoken Live episode number 60. And to support this brand new independent news venture, please hit subscribe right now. Turn on your notification bells too. The invasion of Britain continues at pace with at least 1,424 people crossing the channel in 24 boats over the weekend, bringing the total crossings this year to over 25,000. And Slippery Starmer has literally no solution as how to solve it. But Matt Goodwin, the academic turned strident anti-elite movement leader, has developed a plan to fulfill the wishes of folk who he calls the

forgotten majority. You might as well go to the White Cliffs of Dover and put a big neon sign on them saying, Britain is open for business, come on in. The conservative thinker Thomas Sowell once said, immigration laws are the only laws that are ever discussed in terms of how to help people break them. So in my DigestX, I'll reveal Matt's strategy in a brand new short film and reveal why Nigel Farage in Number 10 after a Reform UK takeover

is the political force needed to turn this situation around. Then Matt joins me for an in-depth interview. Also coming up today, Keir Starmer's latest deception scandal sends the flailing PM into Prince Harry territory after he pretended Lord Ali's flat was his own home. At times like this, we must all put the national interest first and play by the rules. Of course I understand that sticking to the rules can be inconvenient. But stick to the rules. Notice he'd put a family photo on the shelf to try and convince us that was his modest house,

not some sort of luxury pad and Mayfair. And Jim Davidson's fury at the safety of Brits being put at risk. And politicians wonder why people are so f***ing angry with the state of things. I'll reveal what he's referring to later. Then in the uncancelled after show, Lady Colin Campbell on the latest PR disaster for Meghan Markle and what the BBC has got wrong about the scandal engulfing Mohammed Al-Fayed. You can register to watch on our own website right now at www.outspoken.live. It is a safe space, free of censorship, and your support at just £5 a month gives you 30 minutes of extra content every single weekday and allows me to continue making this independent daily news show. But now, let's go.

So, Tuteke Estama has finally had to admit, only about two months too late, that caring about mass uncontrolled immigration or the invasion of our southern border via the channel doesn't make you a so-called far-right lunatic. Do you understand people have legitimate concerns about immigration? I think people who are genuinely concerned about immigration aren't and should not be. So people are worried on how far right are they? They're not worried, but they're not far right individuals if they're worried about immigration. No, absolutely not.

Not quite. Many, many people across the country are concerned about immigration, but they wouldn't for a minute go onto the street and throw a brick at a police officer. And I think it is wrong to pretend or that they are one and the same. But what we also can't pretend is that the Prime Minister has a plan to bring down illegal or legal migration, with over 700 pouring in via small boats on the channel alone. That was on Sunday, with God knows how many more being smuggled in on trucks. The Rwanda scheme has been scrapped, so what the hell now? This is an issue the academic-turned-independent media mogul Matt Goodwin has explored in his new short film, How to Stop an Invasion. payments network, Visa provides scale expertise and innovative payment solutions. Learn more at visa.ca slash fintech. I'm going to tell you something that nobody in Westminster in the

corridors of power are going to tell you. Britain is being invaded. Since 2018, more than 135,000 people have entered Britain illegally, enough to fill a city the size of Exeter. And they're joining more than 1.2 million people who have entered the country illegally, enough to fill a city the size of Birmingham. Now if you look at Home Office data, 70% of all people coming over on the small boats crossing the channel are young men. And they're coming mainly from Muslim countries. But as Matt outlined in France, Macron's government actually has no real intention of helping. Welcome to Calais, France.

This is where the invasion begins. The people who enter Britain illegally have already passed through multiple safe countries like this one. France is a safe country. They are not facing immediate peril, they're not in immediate danger and they have no right to enter our country illegally. So why do they want to come to the UK? Because if I'm being honest with you, we're a soft touch. We give them welfare, we give them housing, we give them money, we give them a low wage, low skill, deliver a economy where they can find work.

We embrace them with open arms. So more of them come. And we noticed that Prisama has no intention of rocking the EU boat. I mean, quite the opposite in fact, as these cozy pictures and ex-posts from last night talking about resetting relationships during an intimate chat prove. Now, I declared the invasion of the UK a national emergency in November 2021,

and the inertia which is tearing the fabric of Britain apart and leaving many dead is deeply frustrating. But what is the solution? Well policy-wise this is what Matt Goodwin is advocating for. I'd reform or repeal Tony Blair's Human Rights Act and replace it with something else and I'd leave the European Convention on Human Rights so that like Australia and New Zealand and Canada and other nations we can actually control who is coming in and out of our own country. I'd also create an active deterrent whereby we process illegal migrants and refugees outside of Britain, away from the British people and our children. That's ultimately what we need to do to keep the British people and our children. That's ultimately what we need to do to keep

the British people and our children safe. Now Matt calls the mass immigration obsession by consecutive governments under the Uni Party a mass experiment and as an academic he has called on the data to stop being covered up. He is also clear it's not a fringe view to be deeply concerned about this, but rather a majority one. And speaking at the Reform UK conference in Birmingham at the weekend, it looks pretty clear that he agrees with me that the political answer to stopping this great experiment is probably down to one Nigel Farage.

An awareness that you're not speaking for 10% or 14% of the country. On many of these issues, you are speaking for the forgotten majority, which is why I think ultimately, when we come back here in four years, five years, or we come back after the elections in Wales, or we come back after the local elections, I don't think I'm going to be talking to a party on 14% of the national vote at a general election. I think I'm going to be talking to a political party that has completely reshaped the front lines of British politics

and put the British people back in charge. Thank you very much. And I'm delighted to say that Matt Goodwin joins me now. And I should point out that that brilliant short film is available to watch on Matt's sub stack, mattgoodwin.org. It's a community of over 55,000 like-minded individuals from around the world.

I am a subscriber and an avid reader. And actually, I promise you that with Substack, you know, I'm on there too, as there's really no need actually for MSM newspapers these days. So Matt, congratulations on the film. So great to have you on Outspoken. Why do you think the elite class is so desperate to avoid this issue, even though polling that you have done shows it is the number one thing that we're actually worried about? Well, firstly, it's great to be with you, Dan. I think the reason that many people in the elite class are not really responding to this issue is basically because they don't want to respond to

this issue. They don't see securing the borders as a priority. They view this as an inconvenience. They're pretty relaxed with weak national borders, with high levels of immigration. And so on both the left and the right in the old parties, what we basically have is an elite consensus. This is an acceptable state of affairs. And certainly, there's not much appetite within the old parties to disrupt the legal architecture that surrounds this issue, which I and I know you have argued as well, needs to be disrupted if we're going to get to the root of this problem. That means leaving the European Convention on Human Rights. It means reforming Tony Blair's Human Rights Act. And above all, it means having an active deterrent like Rwanda or even bringing Rwanda back so that it actually works, which

would dissuade people from making this journey and ultimately, Dan, making a mockery of the claim that we are a self-governing, independent, sovereign nation. Yeah and actually i want to just show a little bit of when you were in calais because you outline in really good detail why these migrants are so desperate even though they're in france a safe country why they are so desperate to come to the uk welcome to calais france This is where the invasion begins. The people who enter Britain illegally have already passed through multiple safe countries like this one. France is a safe country. They are not facing immediate peril, they're not in immediate danger and they have no right to enter our country illegally.

So why do they want to come to the UK? Because if I'm being honest with you, we're a soft touch. We give them welfare. We give them housing. We give them money. We give them a low wage, low skill, deliverer economy where they can find work. We embrace them with open arms. So more of them come.

And I mean, under Labour, Matt, literally no deterrent, is there? Rwanda scrapped, even the Bibby Stockholm barge scrapped. And now the migrants are going to be scattered all around the country coming to a community near you. I think it's important that people understand just how badly Labour have managed this issue in the last two months. I mean, Dan, look at what's actually happened here. The Rwanda plan has been scrapped. We have no deterrent at all. The Illegal Migration Act has been amended. We're not detaining and deporting illegal migrants when they enter Britain. Yvette Cooper has confirmed that the vast majority of people who enter the country illegally, who are in the asylum system, in the backlog, well, they're going to be granted asylum, essentially.

We're going to give another incentive for people to come over because if they get here, they now are told that actually the system will allow them to stay. And this is why, Dan, the numbers are still going up. As you said in your opening comments, we've had nearly 30,000 crossings this year. We've got nearly 140,000 since 2018. And we've got this ludicrous talk, Dan, about how Labour are going to smash the gangs. Now, I can say to you and your audience exclusively that when I was on the channel talking to the captains

and the fishermen down on the channel, they said to me quite clearly that the numbers had rocketed after Labour won the election because the gangs knew there was a softer regime in town, that there was a new sheriff in town and they weren't that bothered about upholding the rule of law. So I am predicting that what we're going to see increasingly between now and 2029, the next election, is going to be an explosion in the small vote numbers. Because lastly, Dan, one thing we all have to, I think, bear in mind here is that Keir Starmer has consistently shown himself unwilling to do what needs to be done on this issue, saying you're going to smash the gangs. But unless you actually deal with the underlying root cause, unless you discourage and remove the incentives for people to make the perilous journey, like removing the need for them to take drugs, smashing the gangs isn't going to make a difference.

Everybody knows that. People in the National Crime Agency have told me that. So I'm desperately concerned about what the British taxpayer is going to have to put up with over the next five years. And ultimately, Dan, I know you and I agree, what this country needs, what our politics needs is radical, wholesale change. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And I do want to come to the political solution very shortly, actually. But just before we get there, I want to look at what changed in your view after the Southport massacre, because it seems to me there was a bubbling anger in the community, which obviously exploded. And while no one advocates for any form of violence, I'm very clear on that and have always been very clear on that, by the way, whether it was Black Lives Matter or pro Hamamas demonstrations, violence against the police is wrong. But it does feel like the silenced majority, as I call them, or the forgotten majority, as you call them, are sick of being ignored, but at the same time, Matt, the commentariat are actually too scared to talk about Islam extremism at all. I mean, I'm sure you saw it at the Labour conference, but Yvette Cooper and Keir Starmer, who spent a big chunk of their speech

slamming the so-called rioters after the Southport massacre, did not refer to the threat of extreme Islam, which we know is the biggest terror threat facing this country. They did not refer to it once. Well, ultimately, because this is a Labour government that is riddled with identity politics, which views the majority group with suspicion, if not hostility, and views minority groups as being sacred and untouchable. So as we saw during the riots and the protests,

there was violence on all sides, Dan. Everybody saw that who was on X or Twitter. Everybody saw the Muslim gangs, the machetes. Everybody saw the riots and the disturbances in Hare Hills and Leeds. Everybody saw the British Muslim guys beating up the police officers at Manchester Airport a few days before. You know, we can see what's happening to the country. And this sort of narrative that's coming out of Keir Starmer and Yvette Cooper, which is essentially all of this stuff over here is far right thuggery. It's extremism. It's just a bit, you know, we don't really want to spend much time engaging with it in a serious way. And actually, we're

going to ignore simultaneously all of these issues over here that happen to involve minority communities. I think the British people now see straight through this. And I'm really concerned, actually, Dan, because we've only had this government for two months. And already, whether you look at Rachel Reeves celebrating, I mean, the only thing she's managed to celebrate is the fact that a woman is in the Treasury. David Lammy, speaking at the UN, the only thing she's managed to celebrate is the fact that a woman is in the Treasury. David Lammy speaking at the UN, the only thing he seems to be able to celebrate is that he happens to be a black man speaking at the UN. So what you've got is a sort of classic identitarian view of the world.

Minorities are really positive to be celebrated, majorities to be treated with suspicion. And you saw Keir Starmer in his interview with Chris Hope, you just showed a segment of it. I mean, he really does struggle to bring himself to the view that actually people's concerns over migration are acceptable and legitimate. And more importantly, Dan, that in order to respond to those, we are going to need wholesale policy change, not just tweaking with apprenticeships and shortages in the economy, which he's been babbling on about this week. We're going to need a commitment from the old parties, or otherwise there are going to be new parties that will replace them, to dramatically reduce

net migration to below 100,000 a year, to leave whatever international convention is necessary to control our borders, and to put the British people and British families before international conventions and European courts and activist lawyers who have no serious interest in upholding the security and the safety of the British people. And there is such a human cost to this current policy. And I was delighted, Matt, to see during uh your very good speech by the way at the reform uk conference that you mentioned thomas roberts because thomas roberts is a name and a guy that i've been speaking about for a very long time but it's actually shocking and an indictment on our mainstream media that probably most Brits don't know his face and don't know his name.

So Thomas Roberts was, well, look, you tell the story best. Here's a little look at what you had to say about him at the Reform UK conference. Well, I think we'll come to that shortly but i spoke to thomas roberts father and i think that's worth looking at when you hear people criticize folk who say look we we have to stop the boats because we have to stop this flow of illegal migrants into the country because so many of them, no one's saying 100%, but so many of them are criminals. And they say, no, you're being heartless, you're lacking compassion. What's your response to that?

I don't think compassion comes into it. It's common sense. And I ask anyone who pleases compassion if it's your child, your son, your daughter, your mother, your father is in the same situation, you wouldn't think the same. Anything you want will put you in schools or here, there and everywhere will give you a life that you don't have to pay for because you're an asylum seeker. And that's wrong. Nine times out of 10, they'll find out the info after the event, not before the event. Otherwise, someone else is going to die. So that is the human cost. And Matt, I think it's just worth

you outlining. Sorry, I thought we had the clip of you talking about it. But I think it's just worth you outlining the failures in regards to illegal immigration that allowed Thomas Roberts to be stabbed to death by an illegal migrant in Bournemouth on a night out. Well, I'm glad you've also been drawing attention to the case, Dan, because it is truly horrific. And if we lived in a just society, Thomas Roberts would be as well known as George Floyd or Stephen Lawrence. That's the reality of the situation. What happened is an illegal migrant entered the country. He told the authorities he was 14. They didn't check.

They put him in a secondary school next to year nine pupils. He was 19, Dan, and he'd already killed two men in Serbia. He went on to assault other children in the school. He assaulted his foster mother. And he was reported to be walking around the streets of Bournemouth with a machete two days before the police, sorry, two days before he murdered Thomas Roberts and the police couldn't find him. And even the coroner after this tragedy, she ruled that there could not be a full inquest into Thomas's death because I think there are lots of people in the country who are looking at cases like this. And of course, also, we have the Abdul Azizi case, the guy who poured chemicals and acid over the young mother and two children. In fact, I've got a piece coming out in

the coming days on these 10 horrific cases that highlight just what is happening in Britain. And what they're all telling us, Dan, and this tragic case of Thomas Roberts, is we have to regain control over our borders. We have to treat the British people with the respect and the decency they deserve, because some people, like Thomas Roberts, are now paying the full price for the failure of our political class to deal with this issue. I'm amazed nobody in frontline British politics, Dan, has actually talked about this case in detail and highlighted it. In fact, I'm actually quite appalled at how few people seem to know about it. That's why I dedicated the speech to the case, because I wanted people to understand that somewhere out there is a family that has paid the price of these luxury beliefs that are held by a political class,

who say that actually we're not going to prioritise fixing the borders. And I think it's disgraceful, Dan. It's absolutely disgraceful. Indeed. And there was failure after failure after failure, as you outline. And this is happening all the time. And by by the way it's not just young men being killed it's young women being raped which is obviously not a nice thing to talk about but it is happening and there are terrorists that were also importing so that's why this is such a really important issue but look can we talk about the political solution, Matt Goodwin? Because you're there speaking at the Reform UK conference, predicting that there's going to be a revolution

in British politics. I mean, I completely agree with you. But does that mean that you think Nigel Farage can be prime minister? I don't think there's ever been as much space in British politics for Nigel Farage and the self-described People's Army as there is today. And I've been looking at British politics for 20 years. And Dan, what I see is a incredibly unpopular incumbent Labour government, which is only going to become more unpopular over the next five years. I see a very tight economic environment, low growth, lots of debt, decline in public services, a broken model of mass immigration, which is taking more out of the economy, Dan, than it's putting in. I see broken borders. I see lawlessness.

I see the advance of woke ideology in our schools, in our civil service, in the public sector institutions. And I see rising levels of concern over these issues. Dan, as we're speaking today, the number one issue in the country, in all of the polls, is not actually the economy and the cost of living, it is immigration. And you've got this real potent mix of people who are desperately concerned about what's happening to the country they love, who are simultaneously struggling to get to the end of the month, worried about prices, worried about where the future of economic growth is going to come from, and who aren't getting the answers from the established political class.

So for Nigel Farage and Reform, and I have to say, I was at the conference, I spoke at the conference. It was probably the most polished and professional conference that I've been to, to date. It was very well organized. There weren't any hecklers, unlike at the Labour conference. The audience was very committed. They were very engaged. I tell you though dan there's one challenge to nigel farage that i think very few people have picked up on and it's this the challenge will not

be generating demand because there's so much of that in british politics at the moment the challenge is going to be overcoming apathy overcoming a sense sense among the British people that it's too late, a sense that the country is gone, a sense that nobody can make a difference. And I tried to give a nod to that in my speech. And I also discussed this with Nig I've not sensed at any previous Brexit party event, UK Independence Party event, is not just support for the movement, Dan, but is a palpable sense of urgency. A sense that if something doesn't start to change soon in this country, then it will be too late. And so apathy is that big challenge, that big obstacle that I think is facing Nigel Farage and the movement, and they're going to have to find a way of overcoming it. Now, you were a big part before the election of encouraging Nigel to stand, because remember, initially he didn't, but you were saying, yes, he could win in Clacton, and actually he would

take other MPs into Parliament, which is what happened. So putting your data poster hat on for a moment, what actually has to happen on a practical basis for Nigel to be Prime Minister at the next election? Does there have to be a merge between Reform UK and the Conservative Party, otherwise they cannibalise each other? Or does there have to be a deal where, for example, Reform UK might take all the Red Wall seats and the Tories would challenge the Lib Dems? I mean, from a practical basis, what has to happen politically under our first-past-the-post system for NITR to have a shot of entry number 10?

Look, I think ultimately the answer to this question is going to depend on your own politics now my view would be reform would be insane to do a deal with the conservative party in fact one of the lines that i uh had in my speech was that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. Well, arguably, if you vote conservative again and again and expect a different outcome, then chances are you're insane. And I think for many people within and around the reform movement,

doing business with the party that presided over the liberalization of the immigration regime, that lost control over the borders, that never really took levelling up and investing in areas outside of London seriously, that basically laughed in the face of many ordinary British people on these issues. My view would be, you know, reform should hold their nerve, should continue to critique and attack the two big parties and present a credible, compelling alternative. And what I suspect, Dan, is they may well replace the

Conservatives at the local elections next year. I think they'll beat the Conservatives in Wales at some really important elections coming up in Wales. I think we'll probably have some by-elections where reform will finish ahead of the conservatives. And all of this is going to add to this sense of momentum behind this people's army that actually the answer here is not just to bring back a party that is broken. Its brand has become toxic. As Nigel Farage said at the reform conference, he doesn't care who becomes leader of the conservative party because the brand is so irreparably damaged that I think reform will be tempted to go in alone. Now, that's going to make things difficult without question. That's going to make beating the Labour Party without question. But the thing that's going for reform, Dan, is we've never had levels of churn, levels of volatility in our political system like we've had today. I mean, we've just

gone from a massive Boris Johnson majority in 2019, 80 seats, to an enormous Labour majority only five years later. Now, why is that? Well, that's because voters are no longer tribally loyal. They are floating around freely. And if they come to the conclusion that the answer in 2029 is actually none of the big parties and the answer is an alternative that is much closer to the values of the majority on these enormous totemic issues like immigration and they can they conclude that that movement is credible then they may well shift on mass again so you know my view my advice to Nigel Farage and so on, not that they necessarily need my advice, but it would be hold your nerve, keep going, keep professionalising,

see where you are in 2027, 2028. So I'm interested to know what you think about some of the criticism of Nigel from the right over the past week, because there is a view that he has slightly moderated his message when it comes to two big issues, the demographic change in the UK and mass deportation. So I want to show you just a couple of little bits of this interview that Nigel conducted with Stephen Edgerton of GB News, and I'll get you to respond off the bat. do you think that immigration represents a major threat to britain from a demographic perspective so in the last 20 years the white british population has declined from 87 percent to 74 percent is that a concern of yours no no that's not a concern of mine. What is a concern of mine is, in many cases, the lack of integration. We see that writ large by the new kind of politics that's emerging,

sectarian voting along religious lines. I never really thought I'd see that in England in my lifetime. I mean, I grew up seeing it. Was that the right answer, to say demography doesn't matter? I'm not entirely sure that is what Nigel Farage was saying. I think what he was saying was that we've moved beyond the discussion about race and that demographic change and the pace of change that's been undermining the integration of our country and undermining a sense of shared values and belonging is critically important to our politics. Now, I understand why many people on the right of British politics would perhaps watch

that interview and say, actually, I feel really concerned about the decline of the white British group, because the decline of the majority group is a symbol that many people take as being a proxy for the health of the nation, if you like, that the majority group is seen as a symbol of that nation. And that's why, for example, down in America and the UK and elsewhere, we often find that minority communities feel just as anxious about the decline of the majority group because they too associate the majority group with that nation. So I think there are lots of people who will feel very concerned about the pace of change and the extent to which cities, towns in the country are becoming majority minority, if you like. But Nigel Farage's job being in Parliament and leading the Reform Party is not to appeal solely to the right of British politics. His job now is to build

a coalition of voters that can extend well beyond 15% of the national vote. So if you like, what I think we're going to see now is really a tension, if you like, between true believers, ideologues, and political realists. And if you are, and especially in the first part of the post-system, if you want to go from 14% of the national vote,

which is what reform got at the general election and five MPs, to 30% of the national vote, and potentially coming within the realm of winning a general election, you have to dramatically expand your coalition. a purist and pragmatist message, right? And I think ultimately that's what you saw in that interview with Nigel Farage. So he's going to moderate a bit because there was another key part from the interview about mass deportations, which I want to get you to comment on too. So have a look at this. It's a political impossibility

to deport hundreds of thousands of people. We simply can't do it. At the moment, it's a political impossibility. But is it your ambition? No. I'm not going to get dragged down the route of mass deportations or anything like that. People are always going to come and go. And we are a country that's engaged in international trade.

And we have relationships around the world through the Commonwealth, etc. But yeah, we have to aim at a balanced migration policy. But net zero still means hundreds of thousands of people coming into Britain, immigrants coming into Britain. Isn't that too many? It may well be, but we have to start somewhere. As Trump says in America that he wants mass deportations, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants are in Britain at the moment. Some estimates say the number could even be in, you know,

a million plus. So do you support deporting all of those people? It's impossible to do. Literally impossible to do. In terms of the atmosphere in Britain, are you concerned that there is a rising level of anti-white hatred? I'm just concerned about a deeply divided society. Now you'll see it was actually UKIP that put all of that together, Matt. And they have said Tommy Robinson supporters are welcome. Katie Hopkins is welcome because Katie said that she was banned from the reform conference. Watch this. So just so you know, that's my commitment to our side.

Right. I don't believe in the division. I understand what Nigel and reform are doing. But please know they won't allow me anywhere near them. It's not because I won't be there. Okay, so where do you stand? Was Nigel right to rule out mass deportations? And is Reform UK right to say no to Tommy Robinson supporters? I think the first thing to say is it depends what groups we're talking about in British society. And that wasn't entirely clear to me from the question that Stephen was asking. So to give you some examples, if we have 1.2 million illegal migrants in Britain, which is estimated to be somewhere between 800,000 and 1.2, and we can remove those people to their countries of origin, then we should be doing what we can to remove those people from the country. If you have somebody with dual nationality who has been convicted of grooming or sexually exploiting young white girls in Northern England, as I've argued on my sub stack, those people should be deported and we should be applying pressure on countries like Pakistan, which we can do through visa arrangements and other things.

We should remove them from the country. If we have 10,000 foreign national criminals, Dan, in our prisons, and we simultaneously can't find enough spaces for criminals in the UK, we should be doing whatever we can to deport foreign nationals out of our prisons. Now, those things I think you can do something about. I suspect what Nigel was saying was that within the much broader debate about deporting immigrants per se, it's just simply too broad and politically impractical to do something on that issue in Britain in 2024. So there are things that we can do, things that I think are fair and just and respectful to the British people, around people who break up the law, around people who engage in hideous practices, around people who enter the

country illegally, we should be detaining them, and we should be deporting them immediately, not giving them amnesty, which is what Yvette Cooper and the Labour government are wanting to do. But I think where Nigel Farage was drawing the line was saying, actually, you know, that doesn't spill into mass deportations of immigrants per se, because, you know, how are we defining those people? And I think that's the issue that we just want to be aware of in terms of the other issues that's a question for the reform leadership down I'm still not a member of the reform party who they choose to let into their conference or not is ultimately up to them I think you know I could just tell you a little bit about my own journey if you like in the

because I was wondering if you were thinking about joining, because a lot of people are hoping, Matt, that you might end up being part of a reform UK cabinet, Home Secretary, for example. Well, Dan, let me just say, and I would say this to everybody in reform, you know, no, no, there is no such thing as a perfect political party. And there is no such thing as a perfect political leader. But what there are in politics are vessels and vehicles that you can use to apply pressure to the political system and bring about real change. Now, I think everybody who is in reform, based on the conversations I've had, is in it for that reason. They want to use a vehicle to apply pressure to the big parties and take on the elite consensus in this country. Now, that's certainly how I view the reform movement. It's a vehicle, it's a springboard into applying pressure. Because if you look at the last 20 years, Dan, the big story in British politics, I would argue, is that real political pressure on the elite consensus does not come from within the old parties, but comes from outside the established political system. That was the story of the UK Independence Party and immigration. That was the story of Brexit. That's the story now with reform. You cannot trust the Conservative Party to bring about this change. I certainly wouldn't. But I think you could learn that lesson and apply pressure from outside the system. And in a sense, then,

if you look at it through that lens, it doesn't really matter who has what kind of alliance with what kind of party, with what kind of organisation. As long as millions of people are walking into the polling station and are actively rejecting a status quo that isn't working for ordinary working-class people, the forgotten majority, that's enough. And my view on politics has always been maybe more pragmatic

than some people in that ultimately, Dan, maybe like yourself, I'm interested in getting things done and changing things, not wasting time arguing over ideological purity or who likes who and who dislikes who. I think ultimately the stakes are so high right now, particularly over the next five years, that we need to think much more seriously about how do you bring about change. I couldn't agree more. And it just makes me realise when you say that, how ridiculous so much of the coverage of politics in the UK is, because it's all collapsing for this new government. Slippery Starmer mired in so much more scandal as the flurry of revelations about the dodgy money and favors that he took from Lord Ali are threatening to overwhelm his new government. Now, Matt Goodwin at the Reform UK conference said that Starmer is in Prince Harry territory,

but it might be about to get a lot worse. Watch this. Now, that gives him, in my world, a net leadership rating of minus 19. And that's what I call prince harry territory and i'll tell you i think if this government keeps going the way it is by christmas he's going to be in prince andrew territory matt goodwin kia starmer extraordinarilypopular. He has had a disastrous start. He really has, Dan. I mean, just simply through the lens of polling, he's collapsed about 30 points since becoming prime minister. I mean, you know, if this was a conservative in office, you can imagine the reaction from the media class. There'd be calls for resignation. There'd be,

you know, outrage. I mean, remember the days, the early days of Liz Truss or some of the days of Boris Johnson. But this is a government that is incredibly unpopular very quickly. Indeed, I argued this would happen before the election. It's not just Keir Starmer, by the way, Dan, it's also Rachel Reeves. She's collapsed about 30 points. Fascinating polling last week from YouGov. They said to the British people, give us five words or phrases that come to mind when you think about the Labour Party. And not a single one in the top five was positive. It was dishonest, doesn't represent the values of ordinary people, looks after itself, etc, etc. They're all the same, was the basic view. And I think this

scandal, you know, to me, it's less about Lord Ali and the ins and the outs and the detail. To me, Dan, it's about a deeper point, which is Keir Starmer says he's playing by the rules, and he might be playing by the rules. But I tell you, what he's not playing by is something that is absolutely central to our culture in this country, which is the British people's sense of fair play. Is this guy treating us with respect? Is it fair play?

Is it balanced? And on the conclusion of the British people, the answer isn't emphatic, no. He looks like he's taking everybody for a ride. I mean, Dan, he earned over £400,000 last year. Yes, he's worth £10 million. Now, why does a guy earning over £400,000 need three glasses and suits? I mean, come on, let's get real here for a second.

And as you know, having gone through the Partygate scandal, you documented the reaction to that meticulously. There is an incredible hypocrisy, not just within the Labour movement, but actually, I would argue, much of the media class and the political class, which came down on the Conservatives like a ton of bricks. And I think certain journalists, who I will be diplomatic and not name, have struggled with the current scandal engulfing the Labour Party because they're showing their own political bias. Well, I mean, I will name one, Paul Brand, who went after Boris Johnson relentlessly over, let's be honest, in the end, a piece of cake. He has not yet reported on this scandal. Well, I hope he's looking into it because there have been new developments. And Matt,

I know what you mean about sort of the details don't matter because in a lot of ways they don't. It is about the hypocrisy. But I do sometimes wonder if there are those iconic images that relate to scandals like this. So I want to show you the video of Starmer's message that was given to the British public. This was in December 2021. Omicron had happened. I mean, by this this point i would say the lockdown restrictions are absolutely ridiculous you should all do whatever you want he was saying

you've got to stay at home and this was the message that he filmed with a bookshelf behind him i want you to look at this carefully because there are family pictures on this bookshelf so the clear implication the message that is being given to the British public is here is Keir Starmer speaking to you from his home, given he's telling you to work from home. At times like this, we must all put the national interest first and play by the rules. Of course I understand that sticking to the rules could be inconvenient, but stick to the rules. Now Matt, I do just wonder if that is going to resonate with people

because it's so obvious that Lord Ali would not have had a photo of Keir Starmer's family on his bookshelf. This was manipulation, wasn't it? I mean, this is going to become the story of the weekend. It's going to be debated for the next couple of days. It's going to become bigger, but it may well then become the story of the year if Keir Starmer continues to handle it as badly as he has done. Like after the riots and the protests, he seems to be unable to understand why the public mood is the way that it is. Even watching his interview, you showed a clip earlier with Christopher Hope.

He just doesn't seem to understand why people perceive this as being foul play. You know, this guy is obviously in some shape or form buying access to the Labour Party. We've also discovered, as I'm talking to you at the end of this week, that he's given an enormous interest-free loan to a relative of another Labour MP. We know that Angela Rayner and Sam Tarry stayed at an apartment in New York at his expense. You know, we have seen a Labour Party that on the one hand is saying it's on the side of ordinary working people, but on the other hand is clearly in the pockets of a multimillionaire donor. Now, if this was turned around the other way, we would simply not hear the end of it.

There would be calls for resignations. There would be calls for public apologies. And I just think it's been a disastrous start for the Labour government. And Dan, path dependency in politics matters. So from where you start shapes the eventual outcome. Nobody can say it's better than Liz Truss, right? Now, from where this Labour government has started, this is going to shape the overall outcome. And I think we're going to be in for five years of very unpopular government in this country. I mean, looking at the people involved.

This is no Blair in 1997, is it? Goodness me. I mean, the one thing I really I struggle to understand about this scandal just before we move on is Keir Starmer knew he was likely to become prime minister. He knew he was going into Downing Street. He was leader of the opposition. And he still made these decisions to take donations and freebies from a party donor. He knew this was going to come out. And he doesn't like he doesn't like being questioned on it either. I just want to show you this interview with Beth Rigby, because what I think is interesting about this, Matt, is that Rigby has actually been sympathetic,

certainly compared to how she used to challenge Boris Johnson on these sort of sleaze scandals. But he is still really agitated by the whole thing. Watch this. Help that. There'll be some people that would also want a private place, have a different environment where they would like their child to go so they could have a better opportunity.

Do you see how it looks to some people that there's one rule for you in terms of being able to claim this stuff that other people don't have access to? Well, I think that's why the rules are there to declare it. But look, every day... Do you get it, though? Every day... Do you get how it looks? If you're putting to me, Beth, that I should have stayed in my Kentish town home

and disrupted my son's GCSEs, that that was the right thing to do, then I think you should put that to me. OK. Well, you're saying that you shouldn't have stayed in the home because you wanted to protect your boy. I wanted him to be able to do his GCSEs. And I think many parents...

And any parent would have made the same decision. But I don't wake up every morning thinking about that. I mean, this has not been well handled, has it, Matt? I mean, it's outrageous. I mean, it really is. If you look at the way he's packaging his answer, you know, he's sort of offended to be asked the question. There's lots of mums and dads and families up and down the country

who would have loved to have sent their teenager during COVID to a nice, quiet space to prepare for their GCSEs. Now, I was teaching many of those kids at university who had to go through COVID and the horrific time of doing the exams during the COVID pandemic. They didn't get that advantage. And, of course, now Kirstana is simultaneously clamping down on the parental choice to send their children, if they want, to an independent, to a private school. He's whacking on the fees relating to that. Well, why can't they be free to do whatever they want

to do for their child without penalty? Why is Keir Starmer suddenly different to mums and dads across the land? And this is why two-tier Keir, free-gear gear care, these names have now become household currency. I mean, it's a household name. And I think his brand is deeply, permanently damaged. I think this is doing real damage to Keir Starmer and the government. Yeah, I think so too. Look, stand by, Matt, because in just one minute, I want to show you this incredible anger, I think, from Jim Davidson over the way that Brits are being put at risk by guests or visitors to our country. But first, it's this time of year, isn't it? Football is back. We're talking Premier League in the UK and in the US, NFL Sundays and college football Saturdays. And with that comes the glorious grind of fantasy football lineups. This is where your inner manager comes alive, setting the perfect fantasy roster,

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But now back to the show and jim davidson is absolutely furious at the way brits are being put at risk by foreign criminals and a soft touch home office who seem to allow them to get away with literal murder watch this the ugandan geyser who was jailed for life for murdering another geyser in the back of an ambulance. There was a big fight or whatever, and this bloke ran to an ambulance thinking he'd be safe. No, they got in and they bushed the f*** out of him with clubs and baseball bats. And he will not be deported because the judge said it would breach his, yes, you've guessed it, human rights. What the f*** is going on in our country?

Do our citizens have human rights? So this geezer, the murderer, known as ZM, because somehow he's also been given anonymity, he was a member of a North London gang who chased down their victim into the back of an ambulance, clubbed him to f***ing death with golf clubs, baseball bats. He was 18 at the time. He's now 37. And the Home Office have warned they've, the Home Office have warned everybody, we're going to deport this f***er to Uganda.

Good for them. Oh, no, no, no, no. But an immigration judge, a lefty human rights immigration judge, has blocked it. He said it would be inhumane. Apparently, Uganda does not have the facilities required to treat this man's, yes, you've guessed it, mental health conditions. And politicians wonder why people are so f***ing angry with the state of things. Now, Matt Goodwin, what's interesting is Jim Davidson, who is a lifelong Tory and has insisted that he remains a member of the Conservative Party. Well, he was with you, wasn't he, at the Reform UK conference? Well, I heard a rumour he was around. I didn't actually get to meet Jim Davidson, but I think there is what he reflects is a rising exasperation in the country, a growing exasperation down with the human rights regime, with the courts, with this blob, with this state, this deep state that seems to be intent on doing everything other than putting the British people and the rule of law first. It isn't only this horrific case, which it is horrific, but as I've mentioned, the Abdulazizi case, the case of Thomas Roberts'

murderer, the guy who murdered the pensioner in Hartlepool, we could go on and on. I'm about to release 10 of the most horrific cases in the UK. And for many people, you know, Dan, this is what I still think ultimately the riots and the protests were about. This is where I put myself out and caused a bit of controversy in the summer, because I said fundamentally, you know, what these protests were about was that many people in Britain do not feel safe in their own country. Now, we can simultaneously oppose violence and criminality and say, if you're stupid enough to do all of that, you should be arrested. But we can also say that the basic function of the state is to keep its people safe and secure. And these cases

really do highlight the failures of the state to do the most basic thing it's supposed to do, which is keep us safe. And that is why so many Brits are feeling so anxious and depressed about the state of the country, Dan. And we saw that with Jim. And I guess, Matt, finally, we should just say that one thing that we're both doing in our own ways is trying to bring an independent media revolution, because I think it's very very clear I'm sure you agree that the mainstream media has been a big part of the problem with Brexit, with Covid, with Boris Johnson, now with their treatment of Nigel Farage and Reform UK which is incredibly biased so of course you are now a force on Substack. You're making your own short films.

And there is this excitement and change in the air, isn't there? Because we no longer have to rely on the mainstream media to get our information. I think that's absolutely right, Dan. Somebody said to me when I launched a Substack, and you'll know this too, that for the first time in history, we actually have a generation of writers, thinkers, of campaigners, who are completely insulated from the legacy institutions. They're professionally insulated from the patronage networks, from the prospect of cancellation. They're financially insulated too, thanks to the support from their subscribers and others who acknowledge the importance of promoting independent contrarian thinkers

and pushing them into the public square. And Dan, the blunt reality is you get to a certain point on these platforms, you can't be ignored. As you know, through the ecosystem of social media, what we're doing is we're building an alternative conversation. It's not about being in a... I said exactly the same thing, actually. I said exactly the same thing, actually.

I wasn't at the Reform UK conference because I was at the Together Declaration third anniversary event on Friday night. And that was exactly my message. There's lots of crossover already between our two audiences on Substack. So what I've done is put the link to matt's substat in the show notes on youtube but you can visit directly as well by searching for

mattgoodwin.org or entering it into your website address but mad is also on youtube as well so congratulations how to stop an invasion available now. Real pleasure to have you today, Matt Goodwin. Thanks, Dan. Thank you so much. Now, coming up in the uncancelled after show, Lady Colin Campbell is here on the latest PR disaster for Meghan Markle. And this is really interesting. What has the BBC got wrong about the scandal engulfing Mohammed Al-Fayed. Well, Lady C has some real personal insights on this. So you want to be here on the after show to hear from her. You know, it's very important to me that we have a safe space that isn't patrolled by big tech where censorship and control runs deep. That's why I have www.outspoken.live. It is our membership

section where you get half an hour of extra content every single weekday. So we're coming off YouTube and Rumble, heading to our own platform to have the conversation with Lady C today at www.outspoken.live. Back tomorrow, 5 p.m. UK time, midday Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hit subscribe on YouTube and Rumble. Most importantly, I promise to keep fighting for you. See you on the after show with Lady C in just one moment.