Dan Wootton Outspoken - KATIE HOPKINS HITS BACK IN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW OVER HER BACKING OF "SNAKE" NIGEL FARAGE

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

Go to https://surfshark.com/outspoken for an extra 4 months of Surfshark at an unbeatable price! With two days to go before a potentially seismic election in the UK that could end up banishing the Uniparty to history, Katie Hopkins joins Outspoken for the first time today to reveal why she believes it’s right to vote for Reform UK, even though Nigel Farage might be a monster and a snake. But there remain serious concerns on the right today, as Nigel went on the British Bashing Corporation today to boast about his party’s shift to the centre, which has sparked criticism from Douglas Murray, who has backed Rupert Lowe’s position on mass deportations. PLUS: Sensation at the White House as ex-Mumford and Sons member turned independent media sensation Winston Marshall asks the White House to consider asylum for Brits on free speech grounds. He’ll join us from Washington DC to reveal how senior members of the Donald Trump administration are taking his idea very seriously indeed. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: Meghan Markle infuriates the Royal Family by using the title Her Royal Highness, contravening the Sandringham Summit agreement Prince Harry expressly made with the late Queen Elizabeth the Second. All the fallout from her most shocking interview ever with Meghan’s sister Samantha Markle and our Royal Mastermind Angela Levin. Sign up to watch at www.outspoken.live. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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as Nigel went on the British Bashing Corporation to boast about his party's shift to the centre. We are not left, we are not right, we are common sense, we're standing up for British values. We feel that both local government and national government is broken in Britain and people want a fresh new voice. And I've never seen a government like this Labour government lose popularity so, so quickly. And that has sparked criticism from Douglas Murray, who has backed Rupert Lowe's position on mass deportations. He should shift his view because, first, it's extremely important for the country. And secondly, the American president and others are showing it can be done. If America can deport people who've broken into America and joined criminal gangs and much more,

why can we in Britain not deport the Muslim rape gang members who've been convicted? Very good question. I'm going to put all of that to Katie Hopkins when she joins the show live soon. Also coming up today. Sensation at the White House. As ex-Mumford & Sons member turned independent media sensation Winston Marshall asks the administration to consider asylum for Brits on free speech grounds. He's going to join us from Washington, D.C. to reveal how senior members of the Donald Trump team are taking his idea very seriously indeed. So this is going to be absolutely fascinating. Then in the uncancelled after show on Substack, Meghan Markle infuriates the royal family by using her title,

Her Royal Highness, contravening the Sandrinum Summit Agreement Prince Harry expressly made with the late Queen Elizabeth II. So we'll have all the fallout from her most shocking, weird, bizarre interview ever, joined by two of my favourites today, Samantha Markle's, who is Meghan Markle's sister, and our royal mastermind, Angela Levin. Sign up to watch right now, www.outspoken.live. And of course, we will also be revealing today's Greatest Britain and Union Jackass before the end of the show. As chosen by you, you can vote for your union jackass options right now on the live chat on YouTube.

But let me take you through the nominees. First up, Mark Carney, the new Canadian Prime Minister. How am I saying that? What have you done, Canada? What have you done? And Cam Crabier, who nominated him, quite rightly went with the nickname, which I think I'm going to have to stick with, Mark Carnage. And he said after voters have bafflingly rewarded the Liberal Party's three terms of economic stagnation, soaring inflation and housing crises, with a fourth term of which Mark Carnage was an advisor, of course.

Now, parachuted in to be Prime Minister. Nicola Marfleet, nominated by Anna Island 17. She is, of course, the governor of Woodhill Prison for denying Tommy Robinson visitors again, including a poor woman who is cancer stricken and Meghan Markle. And those fake tears nominated by Becca Thorne QVist. And she says it goes to the Duchess of Sausages for using her HRH title. She is laughing at our gracious late Queen Elizabeth. She has no shame. Titles should be stripped. So you have three gate choices there for Uni and Jackass. Vote in the live chat if you are watching on YouTube right now.

I will announce the winners at the end of the show. I'll also have some of your greatest and hopefully most horrible and funny comments throughout the show as well. And we've got a big one today. Two amazing guests making their outspoken debuts, Katie Hoppikins and Winston Marshall. So don't go anywhere. Let's go. At the start of the year, the British right thought we might finally be about to get a true small-c Conservative Party to lead a Make Britain Great Again Trump-style movement right here in the United Kingdom. And sure, I'm totally behind the fact that the usual right-left divide has broken

down in so many ways in recent years. But broadly, broadly, I think we could agree that that movement would mean mass deportations, a focus on demographic change, a plan to deal with the Islam takeover, lower taxes, a reformed NHS, a smaller state, and most importantly, the protection of free speech as sacrosanct. But after Elon Musk made his shocking decision to turn on Nigel Farage and endorse Rupert Lowe, Reform UK's hard-charging MP, over Tommy Robinson, well, at that point, that is when everything seemed to change. And it wasn't just Zia Youssef's takeover

of reform culminating in that utterly insane decision to report Rupert to the cops for 30 words, but something more significant. Almost like a fundamental move to purge reform of the true believers in its midst in favour of centrists. And on the British Bashing Corporation this morning, just two days before this seismic election, that process seemed complete. When Nigel Farage confirmed that Reform UK was neither on the right nor the left of British politics, in other words, to me, I think he was saying, yep, we have tacked to the centre. Watch. Labour have been pushing, as your line of candidates, being failed Tories.

Well, what a load of rubbish. I mean, I think what the Labour Party found was about two and a half percent of our candidates had formerly been Conservative councillors. We've also got former Lib Dem councillors and former Labour councillors too. No, we are not left, we are not right, we are common sense, we're standing up for British values. We feel that both local government and national government is broken in Britain and people want a fresh, new voice. And I've never seen a government like this Labour government

lose popularity so, so quickly. Just like courting the Muslim vote, Nigel is also courting the unions who equally despise him. You have been courting the unions in the run-up to this local election, but the TUC General Secretary said this of you. He said, you are a political fraud and hypocrite who is cosplaying as a working-class champion in order to win votes.

Just wonder what you make of those words. Well, I think he's very scared, because, I mean, don't forget, it is the trade unions that fund the Labour Party. Unite and GMB, between them, have put nearly 50 million pounds into Labour since 2020. But many union members are going to go and vote reform on Thursday, and poor Nowak doesn't seem to like that. Look, we are on the side of working people. Now, I would argue that this new positioning, this centrist positioning that Reform UK have

clearly taken, makes them vulnerable on the right. Because let's be honest, most of us feel pretty disillusioned about this policy retreat. Indeed, even the Conservatives, who became a left-wing party, so they can hardly talk because of their 14 failed years in office. But even they see an opportunity, openly posting on X, about Nigel's now infamous interview with GB News, where he declared mass deportations as impossible, writing, Nigel Farage talks a big game, but when pushed on whether people here illegally should be deported, it's impossible to do. It's pointless even going there. Weak, weak, weak.

And Nigel's weak approach has even earned a rebuke from Douglas Murray on his own channel. Watch this. The question you got Nigel Farage on was very, very interesting. It was interesting to see him not take your bait on that, unlike me. Obviously, you should have very large numbers of people deported in every European country. And this is not, by any means, fringe opinion. Matteo Salvini, Giorgio Maloney in Italy have talked about the need to deport,

for instance, the one million people who are absolutely in their country in Italy illegally. We know that there are at least one million people in Britain illegally. By the way, I don't trust that number, just like I don't trust many of the numbers, because the one million illegal figure has remained the same for about the last 15 years. And I can't help thinking, as I see boats coming in day after day to the south coast of England, among other places, that it would be weird if the figure was so static. But obviously, if people have broken into your country, they should not remain. They've broken the law. And I would add to that, that it's obviously the case that if people are in your country and hate your country and are preaching against your country and much more, you deport them. Of course you do. So why is Farage so reluctant to express support for a policy that is overwhelmingly positive,

with even a majority of Labour voters now supporting mass deportations. Just very briefly on Nigel, do you think he's gone soft on this? I think he probably just doesn't want to go there. I wrote about his disagreement with his fellow MP Rupert Lowe in Spectator the other week, and it seemed clear to me, I thought what Rupert Lowe said about this was, it seemed ultimately to be eminently sensible and in line with what Donald Trump is advocating in America and mainstream politicians are advocating across Europe. I think Nigel Farage just doesn't want to be the person to call for that. You'd have to ask him why. Did you? I asked him whether, well, first of all, I asked him why. And he said,

because it's politically impossible. And I said, well, is it even your ambition to deport all illegal migrants? And he said no. But he seems to maybe have shifted his view today. Well, he should shift his view because, first, it's extremely important for the country. And secondly, the American president and others are showing it can be done. If America can deport people who've broken into America and joined criminal gangs and much more. Why can we in Britain not deport the Muslim rape gang members who've been convicted? So all of this has meant Nigel has been challenged from the right. Something that reform has almost seemed to relish, thinking that washing their hands of that lot, as Richard Tice famously called us, might make the party appear more mainstream. But ultimately, the

pressure you could argue has worked because Nigel is now promising a mass deportation policy within three weeks after the election, although we don't have the receipts yet. Rupert Lowe has claimed victory though, posting on X, all else aside, after pressure from the quote online right, we've managed to get all three parties now openly attempting to brag about their credibility on deportation. I call that progress. Window shifted. And Conor Tomlinson summed it up this way. It's too early. The fact that the Conservative Party is trying to outflank Farage to his right after a decade of saying diversity is our strength shows where the momentum lies in British politics.

Mass deportation is not an exclusive preoccupation of the very online right. They are a vote-winning issue. The myth of winning from a centre ground, which agrees mass immigration and multiculturalism are anoyed goods, is well and truly dead. And unfortunately, this campaign in a lot of ways has been overshadowed by that ego clash between Rupert Lowe and Nigel Farage. And I think that's a huge detriment to our movement. And my friend sent me a great passage from a book yesterday, which I wanted to share because I think it is really relevant here. So it's from the 48 Laws of Power, where the American author Robert Greene summed up why leaders should keep their rivals close.

And he wrote, Andrew Johnson, Abraham Lincoln's successor as US president, saw Ulysses S. Grant as a troublesome member of his government. So he isolated Grant as a prelude to forcing him out. This only enraged the great general, however, who responded by forming a support base in the Republican party and going on to become the next president. It would have been wiser to keep a man like Grant in the fold where he could do less harm than to make him revengeful. And so you may often find it better to keep people on your side where you can watch them than to risk creating an angry enemy. An angry enemy is the role Rupert Lowe is now playing. No matter how annoyed or pissed off that might make Reform UK supporters, who now believe the

man should just be erased from history, he's gone from hero, now he should just be forgotten. That said, I have been clear that despite personal attacks from Zia Youssef and other reform bigwigs, as far as I'm concerned, the best party to vote for this week remains Reform UK. It's too early. That's the point. It's too early. But to be very clear, by the way, to all of the people who think I'm somehow turning on reform, if I was voting in the local elections next week, I would be voting for Reform UK. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be scrutiny on where this party is going, because we don't want Tory 2.0. Didn't work first time around, and so we need something better in order to save the country. And this week, Nigel got an endorsement he may not have been expecting

when Katie Hopkins urged her millions of supporters to vote reform even, even if they believe its leader is a snake or a monster. I'm a minister for deportation and will roll back on net zero and all of that nonsense. It's good to see this shift and well done to Rupert Lowe and Ben Habib who have pushed for this. You don't have to like the guy. You just have to choose your monsters. And right now, Nigel is the right monster to choose. And I'm delighted that Katie Hopkins joins Outspoken Live for the first time today. Oh, Katie, it is so good to have you. I know you hate Zoom, so I do really appreciate this,

but I felt like it was an important week to have you on the show. So I'm so delighted you're here. Oh, it's good to be back together again. You and I have had a long journey. A long and chicken history, you might say. Yeah, from very similar beginnings to where we are now, which happens to be in a kind of similar place. So just personally, I want to say to you, I congratulate you for having the stamina and tenacity to stick at it when so many try to take you down. I think it's really admirable and I really applaud you. Well, I so appreciate that. I really do. And it's interesting when I look back, I almost feel like my cancellation was a couple of years behind yours you know you left from the sun

to the mail in very similar circumstances to me you were then cancelled by the mail and lbc in very similar circumstances to what i would be on lbc and gb news and i do want to come to that actually because i think what's happened to the mainstream media landscape in this country is quite something. But first, Katie. I just want to clarify there, because your production crew, you know, I'm obviously going to have to go and punch them in the face at some point for putting up those pictures of me at LBC. I just like to forget the lesbian years, if we can, please. I had had brain surgery i was gonna say there was very good reason behind the short do uh but look there is this real debate on the right

this week you have come out in favor of voting for reform uk even if you think nigel farage is a monster or a snake in the past hour rupert lowe in the Daily Telegraph is saying Britain needs a plan, not a protest. Think twice before voting reform. So why is Rupert Lowe wrong? see it in all walks of life. I see it very often when people are hurt or they're upset. It can be something in their private life. It can be a health matter. People need to channel that fury. I mean, you and I have been through different sorts of this. You have to channel it. And it's a question of where you channel it. I so admire Rupert Lowe. I think he's been treated despicably. But at the moment, he's possibly channeling it not in the best manner, which is to go to the Telegraph 42 minutes ago and say, don't vote reform at any costs. And actually, I've read that article and it is a little contradictory because

he says vote local. And yet he keeps talking about a grand strategy for the nation. And he keeps talking about his rape squad fundraiser, which is brilliant, but that isn't a local issue. So it's a kind of mixed message. He's hurting, I feel badly for him. But I think what's important is to acknowledge that Rupert Lowe and Ben Habib and others, yourself and others, have helped to drive the agenda

that reform is now putting forwards. Nigel Farage has been obligated to talk about illegals because of people like you and Ben and Rupert. So there is much purpose in these other voices being out there. But I think we have to be very clear. And I made a little list was straight off the top of my head. Ten seconds worth. I don't like Nigel because he screwed UKIP vote reform. I don't like Nigel because he's a snake. It's true. I don't like Nigel because he sold out the Brexit party. He did. Candidates didn't even know they were going to be screwed at the same time they were being screwed. I don't like Nigel because he treated Rupert Lowe horribly.

He absolutely did. Briefing the he treated Rupert Lowe horribly. He absolutely did, briefing the newspapers that Rupert had dementia. I don't like him because he's a maniac. He is. I've met him in person and he has terrible teeth. He will not acknowledge Tommy Robinson. He will not. That's despicable. Tommy's being tortured. He flip-flops. He has Muhammad Yusuf as his banker. Yes, he does. That should never have happened. It goes on. This was off the top of my head. All the reasons that people will say, I can't vote reform. And I agree with every single one of them. But this is not a church. This is a casino. Voting is entering the casino and you have to game the house. You have to game the house.

You have to game the system, right? Well done, production team. Yes, that's a photo of Tommy. And at this point, we have to game together, right? And the way we game this best is by doing what you've been advising, I believe, which is hold your nose, know that all these things we just discussed are true, and at the same time, vote reform. I'm finding it hard though, right? Genuinely hard because Zia Youssef actually came out and attacked me on X.

I've had very, very senior figures in Reform UK say to me, you are the enemy. And I find that utterly shocking and appalling given this is a party that i voted for and i feel like actually all i've done is provide them with the same type of coverage that is there and has both sides of the argument and i find it really really weird that they are much much more scared now of coming on a show like this than going on the British Bashing Corporation or going to speak to Wokai TV. Because they know that it's that Stephen Edgington interview on GB News where he sort of cornered Nigel Farage. And that's where Nigel said mass deportations were impossible.

They know that's caused a huge amount of damage. So I'm not going to say it's been an easy one for me, partly because I've just been so horrified to see the way the party has acted. Unlike you, I've never had a personal issue with Nigel. Actually, at GB News, he was a really supportive colleague of mine. Now, don't get me wrong. I know there's like a litany of other people on the right who have been treated appallingly, but this is not personal with me. It's about the country. And it's about the fact that if we have a so-called right-wing party that doesn't believe that mass deportations are impossible, then what the hell is the point? What the hell is the point? Yeah. And I think that's so fair. and I think both you and I you know we've long got

past things that are personal if we held on to things that were personal we'd probably lock ourselves in a small room and never speak to anyone sometimes I'm tempted Casey it's not a bad decision and I was going to say actually at the point that Azeer Yusuf and others are looking at you going well Dan Wooden you are the enemy you going, well, Dan Wooten, you are the enemy. You know, I would totally take that if I was you. I would get naked in your bedroom. I would rub yourself in baby oil and go, yes, I, Dan Wooten, am the enemy. Because they're frightened of you and they're frightened of your platform and your voice. And it's a detriment to them. You know, I'm ex-military and there's one thing you learn

very early on at the Royal Military Academy is if you're facing the wrong way, you're going to fire at your own team, right? If you face behind you towards your team, that's a really bad idea. That's blue on blue. And that's what unfortunately reform because they're kind of childish still. It's all about willy waving and the rest of it. They're facing inwards. So people like you, people like me are actually the support they need. And instead of just holding the line with us, agreeing that we're different, we don't have to get along, we don't have to, you know, appreciate each other's ways, but we need to face outwards because the enemy is always in front of us.

And that's something that unfortunately reform will not learn and they will keep in fighting like this until the end of time. And is it true, Katie, that they want nothing to do with you? I think that's true for the majority of people on the planet my darling yeah I mean you know you know personally all the things I'm banned from banned from all media was banned from GB News before it was even before the inception of the show and certainly they want nothing at all to do with me I'm very inconvenient because of my large US following I'm very inconvenient because of my large US following. I'm very inconvenient because of, you know, the amount of people who are kind enough to listen to what I've been saying and that I'm inconvenient for them as well because I know their backstory.

You know, I was there at the UKIP conference when Nigel was the big guy marching on into the room and lovely Suzanne Evans isn't it yes great woman yeah lovely Suzanne Evans was relegated to a back room and I was in the back room with her we were talking about an issue and she wasn't allowed to go onto the main stage because Nigel couldn't have anybody else contend for the limelight. So I think in some ways, I'm just because I'm such an old cretin that's been around so long, I've seen Nigel in all these guises. And let me just give you a little bit of gossip because it's

fun. I was just over in the US for the inauguration of the great president. I was there for 45. I was there for 47th. And interestingly, the moment that Trump was actually being inaugurated, the moment when people were in tears at the Hay Adams Hotel, people were glued to the screens. Where did I find Nigel Farage outside on his phone having a cigarette? And for me, do you know, and I went over and I went, all right, Nigel. And I shook his hand. I forced him. And he looked like he'd just been sicked on by my dogs. What did he say? What did he say?

Oh, he was, you could see. I mean, I'm sure he has a fairly tiny member anyway, but I just feel like I saw it shrink into insignificance. He died because he was like, oh, that hag. How does she follow me around? How does she know I am? But more importantly, I was able to look him in the eye because at that moment, if you're an authentic Trump supporter, or you're an authentic patriot, you're glued to this historical moment where the greatest president in history takes his moment when he tried,

they tried to kill him when he survived. And Nigel's still out looking at Twitter, smoking a cigarette. And that to me is, that tells me more than I could ever say about the man. He is a snake. But as with all politicians, you have to choose your monsters. And that's what I say. Nigel is a monster. But reform for now can give the establishment the kind of kicking we need. Yes. Do you think, Katie, that the moment it all changed within Reform UK was when Elon Musk withdrew his support for Nigel Farage and endorsed Rupert Lowe. That was all over Tommy Robinson, of course. And is something going on between Nigel and the Donald? Because there is some sort of cooling, at least it looks like.

Do you think Elon is maybe in Trump's air over this? Yeah, absolutely. You're, I believe, really precise there. You could see it happening with Elon's increasing power within the Trump circle, which at one point there was pretty much absolute because of his unique ability to use his huge brain to solve multiple issues at the same time. I mean, it's a phenomena to see. I just love the man. Elon is very clear that Tommy Robinson is being persecuted, is a political prisoner, should be freed, and has made that very clear within the Trump top team.

I've heard it said from very close allies to President Trump. And as a result, he was able to let Trump know that Farage isn't the guy that Farage had been selling in to Trump. It was very, very embarrassing for Nigel Farage to be called out like that by Elon. It was very embarrassing for the mask to slip. And from that moment onwards, Farage wanted revenge. I mean, this is Roman level stuff. This is the Caesars stabbing each other from that moment. And even prior to that, when he saw the amount of popularity Rupert Lowe had, Nigel was plotting the demise of Rupert Lowe. And that's precisely what he's been able to carry out. And

you can see why it's so despicable. And you can see why decent ordinary people like us say, I really struggle with this because we're people of principle. You know, I would rather and have been deported rather than do what I'm told. I would rather be banned from a country, all of South Africa, than do what I'm told. I would rather stand and be spat on than give up what I know to be true. And that's why this really is a conundrum, because people would say, well, why would I play the system when the system's broken? But at this point, I think the casino analogy is helpful in that way. OK, so then what happens after Thursday then? At this point, I think the casino analogy is helpful in that way. OK, so then what happens after Thursday then? So Friday, Nigel, let's be honest, there's going to be some type of reform quake.

He's getting exactly what he wants, which is all of the attention. And critically, he's able to say two things. My centrist strategy has worked. And look, no one gives a damn about Rupert Lowe. I told you, he's just a non-entity. Everyone knows me. What happens then? Is there a need for a new party? Is there any way to make reform what it needs to be? Yeah, I think so. We're going to have to endure and it's going to be a bit gross.

So have your sick bags at the ready. We're going to endure the Nigel gloat and it's going to be big. There's going to be ha ha ha ha ha pints, the ha ha ha, the smiling outrageously at everything. There's going to be multiple cigarette ha ha ha moments.

There's going to be the Richard Tice cuddle-a-thon. We're going to have to have Zia Youssef's face all over the place, which all of us could do without. Just let them have their moment. Look away. Have the old gag reflex. It's perfectly entitled. However, he will believe he's won, and certainly he will have made the point that the old two-party system has now to be over. But the other very useful thing about the military is it teaches you that until you have your orders, right, until you know what you're actually supposed to be doing, you head, you have a clear aim. We're going here and this is the way we march. Off we go. And you start. That's what this is. Head in the direction that we need to go. We need to go in the direction

of reform because we can't have the conservatives like they are. We can't have Labour. We cannot have Labour. But then what you do is you course correct. And that's where Ben Habib. Brilliant. We need him. We need Rupert Lowe and get this rape gang inquiry underway. We need your voice. We need the people that will be course correcting with their voice, with their popularity, actually with their authenticity. Because Nigel Farage may be able to fool many people, but what he can never, ever acquire is authenticity. And he will have to lean on other people like you, like Rupert, for that. Because you, me, Rupert, are authentic. We're who we are. We love us, hate us, whatever. You're only going

to get what we actually are. So that's why I say to people, you can vote reform, holding your nose, because after, we have a bunch of work to do. And I want to just, you know, place this here. After very soon, we will have Tommy Robinson out of jail. Yes. And the country is going to see something seismic happens when that man is released. The state of that man when he walks out of the torture chambers he's been held in should shake even his most fearsome adversaries to their core. And if you cannot come out behind that and support that man after what he's been through, then that will be, you know, to your detriment. Farage has a much bigger foe about to be released. And this man has been made a martyr. And any time currently that we can say his name, I'm very happy to. And so Farage can gloat for five minutes tomorrow, but a storm is coming.

And I know many, many British people and decent farmers and grafters know it. Many of us can feel it, you know, in the energy of this country. Something is coming. I've been able to feel it for five years or more. It's super exciting. And personally, I'm here for it. Hurricane Tommy is on the way, Nigel. Yes. And Hurricane Great Britain. And you want to place two people side by side and work out who is the more authentic patriot, Nigel Farage or Tommy Robinson in his current state, a broken man who can't bear the sound of his own voice because he hasn't been allowed to speak. So a storm is coming. Let Nigel be the man on the beach, having his little sangria,

because there's a tidal wave just offshore. And I'll be here blowing the winds of that tidal wave on shore. I'm sure you will be as well. There's a lot of, a great summer ahead here in the UK. Yes, and Tommy Robinson has big plans, of course, assuming he is able to get out of Woodhill in one piece, which is, of course, the most important thing. But Katie, can we talk about the British mainstream media? Because it's almost like it doesn't realise it's in its death throes, which is quite

fascinating, actually. Given the establishment, the deep state, the Westminster class, they've all had their warning given what's happened across the Atlantic, but they still think it's possible for people like you and for people like Tommy Robinson to be put on a list of they don't exist. They just don't exist. We're just not going to talk about them. It's not that we're going to give them tough coverage or challenge what they think or allow them to have debates with people who disagree with them. It is simply that you do not exist. And that was always

a huge issue for me at GB News. And I'm interested in your view on this, because obviously there were people at GB News, the GB News outcasts, the GB News rejects, we've all gone now, Mark Stein, Lawrence Fox, Father Calvin Robinson. And we really believed that there was an opportunity to change something from within GB News. At the same time, you were banned. Tommy Robinson was banned. And the banned list at GB News is now so long. I mean, it even includes David Starkey, for God's sake. But do you think that we made a mistake by entering that system, by trying to create something with GB News? Was it a fundamentally flawed concept from the off? No, no, not at all. I never have that view. So knowing that I'm on the banned list of all these

places and seeing other people there, you know were very successful there others were very successful Lawrence Mark Stein you know my heart oh I love the man and I never felt in any way embittered about it because my view always is this hold the line idea for many people GB News was a really great source of feeling like they could be heard. And my view is never get rid of those voices. My view is keep that going. It doesn't matter if I'm banned. Who cares about me? I don't really care about my own little voice or my say. Keep anywhere that there's an opportunity for us to be heard. Keep those voices going. So I'm super supportive of that platform. But I think what's been interesting, I suppose, in terms of my little journey is having moved from the sun to men online, having LBC and all the rest of it and Fox News. I now I used to think I wanted to get back there. I used to think, oh, I'd really like a column.

I would actually really like a radio show, but that's just my love. But now I know that that isn't what I want. What I want is to do what I'm doing now, which is to be able to be punching through, getting venues to hold and bringing people together, 1500 people at a time. And my audience now is helping push back the cancel culture because every venue that holds for my stand-up Batshit Bonkers Britain the audience sell it out in about two minutes and because they sell it out it becomes so hard to cancel me and then because our lot spend money because actually they're a fun crowd the bar has record bar taking so all these leftists are like oh we don't have venues anymore we don't have anywhere to put on our sad little play about disabled black paralegic paraplegic vegans that

have a nut allergy oh well hello come behind me i will create the spaces for you my crowd will support the theater for a year so you can have your sad little woke play maybe you could put on the assassination of Katie Hopkins again oh how we laughed so my my my new power you know and it is a superpower is that having had everything taken jobs home savings bank accounts um you know my children a couple of jihadis coming from my head. Having lost everything, I own nothing. My children don't have my last name anymore. My children don't have any physical me to be in front. And so I could be probably one of the biggest enemies this state has because there's nothing anyone can take from me. And courtesy of your production team earlier there with my lesbian hair after my huge surgery, oh, my God. Did you ever see anyone look more like Julian Clary?

I was off my face on Orimov when that picture was taken missing my skull but anyway i'm also on extra time like my epilepsy was supposed to get me uh at 40 and now i'm 50 and i'm still here so so when this summer comes um you can expect to find me at the front and uh and i urge, you know, onwards, hold the line, hold the line, and we march forwards towards the bastards. And if you get behind me, I'm pretty happy taking the arrows on your behalf. Was it tempting to just say, pack it all in, move to the US full time, which you could have done? Yeah I mean I mean it was much more than that honestly Dan um I so I have to be careful because this hits a very personal part of me but I left the UK for five years with just a bag

when the jihadis two of them who practiced chopping my head off, came to my home and my children were in it. And so I took myself off for nearly five years in order to try and protect my children from me. And there's definitely moments, Dan, where it's been much more extreme than that. As a rational person, you believe, and you'll have gone through some of this. The only way to make the noise stop is to really do something dramatic Greg Wallace just talked about it many people have been through it and having come out the other side I'm I know I'm so fortunate and I truly believe you know in life our path is already set and the freer you are and the more you throw yourself to it uh the better your life becomes so

I've been so blessed to be kind of saved and uh and I guess that's why I'm so energized and so hopeful do you feel safe in the UK now only be only in the sense I know I could be got and will be got and my and I certainly think I will end up being put in prison or I'll be end up being removed. But I don't that doesn't make me feel unsafe. If anything, it makes me run a bit harder, train a bit harder, be more ready. You know, I am ready for whatever comes. I don't feel safe in the country, but I feel safe because of what I believe. And I believe your end point is already set. And apparently mine isn't yet.

So I'm really... Better bloody not be. We've got a lot of work to do. Look what happened to you and I. Look, you and I were sworn enemies, probably in some weird way. And now we find ourselves getting along fine, trying to work the same cause. We don't have to agree. You don't think what I

think necessarily or me, you and we find ourselves pushing in the same direction. And I think that's really, really glorious. And I think there'll be a lot more of it, too, actually. I want to ask about LBC, Katie, because you know, I have quite a fascination with that station. I now call it the Labour Broadcasting Company. I know some people call it the Lefty Broadcasting Corporation. I spent a bit of time there as well, nowhere near as much as you. But I was always really proud to be part of LBC because it was the era of it being the station that you got into a black cab in London, and it was on it was the era of it being the station that you got into a black cab in London, and it was on, it was the voice of the people. And this extraordinary thing has obviously happened

over the past few years, and it involves global and this hard push to the left, really driven by James O'Brien. But I was so shocked when you did your live show in London with Brogan and said that actually there had been this campaign within LBC involving the two presenters, James O'Brien and Sheila Fogarty, to actually sabotage your show. And I've got to ask you exactly what went down with that, because to me, that's like the lowest of the low. I mean, whether you disagree with a fellow broadcaster, you don't try and sabotage their show. I've literally never heard of that happening before. And it's funny, there's so many things,

you know, for the longest time, all the time I was hated, the most hated woman in Britain, I always accepted that I would never try and change people's mind about me. And so I never had or wished for a place where I would share what was actually going on because people don't care because they hate you. So so what if you were having massive seizures or, you know, so what? Don't make your problem someone else's. Or so what if LBC was actually sabotaging your success. But I'll give you three examples now

that I have all of the backup, all of the, I have all of the receipts for. Number one, a producer, my producer on my show, and you'll know you rely on your producers. She was incentivized to, at LBC, there is a phone bank. My phones were always full because it was a breath of fresh air show. She would pull the plug effectively on the phone line so that all phone lines would drop out

and on a talk-based show, the idea is that you fail because you don't know what to say. And eventually a supervisor, one of the managers was brought in, the guy that now runs LBC, to sit behind my producer because no one could understand why my phone lines kept going out. Number two, I had the most watched clip ever at LBC. It was a kind of rallying cry about Brexit. That was removed, deleted from the system so that it couldn't gain more clicks and be the most watched. And there was an investigation inside LBC, but nothing was found. And then finally, there was this kind of movement with James O'Brien, where he would try and place producers onto my show. And then they would book guests last minute that would show up at my show

for me to interview that were, say, an illegal immigrant illegal immigrant and actually it didn't matter because I can speak to anyone I'm interested in everyone but these were examples of the deliberate sabotage that I was facing even as I had the most popular Sunday radio show um it was a brutal environment that woman there wouldn't so the professional thing you swap places in the studio that's professional it's how it's done so you have a little conversation to bring the view there wouldn't. So the professional thing, you swap places in the studio. That's professional. It's how it's done. So you have a little conversation to bring the view. She wouldn't even enter a studio I was in and she wouldn't swap time slots with me professionally as you're supposed to. She would go into a broom cupboard. I mean, God knows how she fitted in it. And he would do her start of her show there to hand over.

So Fatty Fogarty there would not sit in a room with me to hand over in a professional manner. Do you know the only person who ever did that to me was Matthew Wright, who is another appalling human being. And he hosted the 1pm to 4pm show at Talk Radio for a brief period. And I was doing drive time 4pm to 7pm. And there's a bit of courtesy in radio, isn't there? That the person who's just finished the show clears out as quickly as possible, because you want to let the new presenter in to get set up, because they've got

the three hours to do, you're finished. And so he was sitting around chilling with his guests and I basically was like um I'm just gonna come in and do my show and he um he said he kicked he tried to kick me out the studio anyway it says a lot doesn't it it says a lot what people are like in their handovers but Katie it has been such a pleasure to have you on Outspoken. Thank you. We've come a long way. We've come a long way. Can I say, I need to say, don't I? I need to say hello to your daddy. You do, because he is going to be so excited.

He is a huge fan in New Zealand. He watches every day. And actually, you've probably been my most requested guest. So please do come back very soon. But we will do it in person next time. OK, that sounds good. Katie Hopkins, thank you so much. And good luck for the rest of the tour, but I know you don't need it given it is sold out. Now, time for The Outsider. It has to go down as one of the most astonishing

moments so far of Donald Trump's already very exciting, very controversial second term. So in the White House briefing room yesterday, one of Britain's brilliant independent journalists and broadcasters, but also very familiar around the world as a former pop star, very talented musician, star of Mumford & Sons in the past, in the White House briefing room asking whether the Trump administration might provide salvation to those of us threatened by the crackdown of free speech in the United Kingdom. Watch. In Britain, we have had a quarter of a million people issued non-crime hate

incidents. As we speak, there are people in prison for quite literally reposting memes. We have extensive prison sentences for tweets, social media posts, and general free speech issues. Would the Trump administration consider political asylum for British citizens in such a situation? Well, to your latter question, it's a very good one. I have not heard that proposed to the president, nor have I spoken to him about that idea. But I certainly can and talk to our national security team

and see if it's something the administration would entertain. And joining Outspoken for the first time, still in Washington, D.C., the brilliant Winston Marshall. Wow. OK, so great to see you. Have wanted you on Outspoken for so long, Winston, so it's absolutely brilliant to have you here. But tell me everything. Firstly, how on earth did that even happen? Well, Dan, first of all, thanks for having me on your show. It's a great pleasure and congratulations for all the well-deserved success you're enjoying with it. So just to a bit of background, the White House have had a completely new approach to media, and obviously we were all following through the election how Trump took a completely new approach to media. And obviously we were all following through the election

how Trump took a completely different tack with regard to podcasting and alternative media and the like. Well, he's carried that on into the White House, into his second term. And one of the things they did previously was Podcaster's Row. That's one example. This time they had what I think they called either the new media day or influencers day, which in itself was quite

interesting. I got quite an insight into how Trump works and operates, actually. So they actually invited the mainstream media, but the mainstream media were all plunked outside. And in front of them, they put up about 100 placards showing the faces and crimes of various deportees. But they put us and some of the new media types who they definitely treated more preferably into a far more comfortable room. And we were given access to interview various members of the cabinet, the government. And that in itself was interesting. But one of the things was what you saw there, which we were invited to participate in a press conference with Madam Caroline Levitt, who people will be familiar with.

Superstar, superstar in the making. Yes, she's impressive taking so many questions so quickly. It's a job I'm not sure I would have the talent for. She gave us the opportunity to ask questions and I asked two and you just played one of them. I'd like to come back to the question that wasn't played later. But this one is one that seems to strike a chord with both Americans and Brits. And it's the question of free speech in Britain. Now, of course, how could we forget the exchange in the Oval Office

when Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer pushed back against J.D. Vance's little jabs about free speech? And before that, of course, J.D. Vance, when he was in Munich, was referencing Adam Smith Connor, the man arrested and charged. And if I got the story correctly, nearly bankrupted by breaking a PSPO order for silent prayer. And this is an issue that is dear to the Americans. And I know on your story, you've covered many of the egregious prosecutions following the heinous attacks in Southport in summer last year. Yeah, so this man obviously was found guilty of a crime for silent prayer jd vance raised it at the munich security conference but you're completely right we have so many political prisoners in the country at the moment don't we winston including lucy connolly the wife

of a conservative councillor behind bars for over two years because of a post on X, Julie Sweeney, a grandmother who made a post this year the day of the Southport massacre in jail for over two years. We have some who even died behind bars like the late great Peter Lynch. So I imagine, Winston, and when I saw your question, I imagine you were also referring to some of those souls? Some of those. I mean, if you take Connolly now, whether or not you agree that it was a crime, no one could possibly agree that two and a half years is an appropriate sentence for the post she made. I'd also say an important context for all of those people charged after the attacks in last summer, the two examples of Mark Heath, who I believe you've had on your show.

Yes, I have. And there's another former Marine whose name escapes me as I speak now. I think it's Michael, I've forgotten, but the Free Speech Union defended him. And both of them, unlike all of these other cases, pled not guilty. Now, the reason that they pled not guilty and the others pled guilty is because the others were effectively bullied into pleading guilty by whatever authorities. And these two other counter examples who pled not guilty, the jury completely put the cases out almost immediately. So it's it's the case that something very, very funny went on with that. And then just for broader context, I'd also say we've we've quite literally had comedians spending nights in jail for things they posted, Count Dankula being a famous example, and ongoing stories about hate speech in Scotland and criminal jokes.

So we've definitely got a free speech issue in Britain, and I think it's hard to argue against that. So the proposition that I made was to Madam Leavitt is that, you know, would the administration consider it? Now, I actually thought that they might already have considered it because it would be keeping of what J.D. Vance, Vice President J.D. Vance has been saying, and particularly in the context of them trying to organize a trade deal. Now, this was my second question. So my second question was, as we speak at the moment, their administration and our government are negotiating the tariff deal. And J.D. Vance famously said, no free speech, no deal. Now, our British business secretary, Jonathan Reynolds, has said that free speech, when it's come to the actual negotiations, has, quote, not been a material.

Well, I should say has not been, quote, a material factor. And he's been dealing, I guess, with the U.S. State Department. No, forgive me. He's been dealing with the Commerce Department and the State Department. It's more an issue for the State Department than the Commerce Department. So for me, it sounds like missed messages. On the one hand, the second in command is saying no free speech, no deal. On the other hand, when it comes to our T, our representatives are saying it's not actually important when they're in negotiation. So I want clarity when it comes to that specific issue.

So that was the context of why I asked the question. Yes. And I think I think, Winston, I'm pretty sure the man that you're referring to, by the way, the other man you're referring to is who the Free Speech Union is helping is Jamie Michaels, who was a former Royal Marine. Now, it was astonishing. You're completely right. He pleaded not guilty, thank God. He was cleared by a jury, I'm pretty sure in under half an hour, but he had been dragged into the court for effectively clumsy language after the Southport massacre. He described some illegal immigrants as scumbags and psychopaths. And he

also mistakenly claimed that Axel Rudi Cabana, the terrorist, was not born in Cardiff. But I mean, come on, Winston, we see paedophiles like Hugh Edwards not spending a day behind bars. So anyway, I just wanted to give some clarity because I think he is another brilliant man who was really the state tried to destroy his life. Well, you got the wrong photo. You don't want to be saying that this man was a brilliant man. No, there he is. Jamie Michaels. Yes. Well, Jamie Michaels, his case was interesting because he put out a video. And if my memory serves me right, he says he's quite careful in actually what words he uses. And I happen to agree that some illegal immigrants are scumbags.

And the jury put the case out in a shorter amount of time than the video he was there for. If that's if I've got that story correctly. Another immensely what I believe is an egregious case is that of Lee Dunn, who served or was sentenced to eight weeks for reposting memes. And the memes were of, I guess, Muslim men in Westminster standing over a British white baby and with a comment, something like, what's next or something like that. But they weren't memes that he'd made. He had reposted them and he got eight weeks and he was, I think, convicted under the Communications Act 2003. Now, the point being is that we've now got so many different acts and laws that you can basically get charged under any of them if they want to get

you the the the the trick seems to be the difference seems to be don't if you don't plead guilty actually the jury i.e the people see through the bullshit the problem is all this laws all these these countless laws that we we've accrued and accreted after really after the Second World War, but it's been turbocharged since the 90s. And a lot of this happened under the Conservatives, I would say, if not most of it. So I don't think either party have shown particular clarity or principle here. This is a, I think that something that needs to be cleared up. And I would say we, in Britain, we need to go back to the common law principles of free speech. And it's not so complicated, in my opinion. But in America, they have really a completely different approach

to free speech than we do. And I would say a completely different culture of free speech. They, of course, have the First Amendment. And Madam Levitt's response to me was that they want to impose or rather teach us about the First Amendment. And it's a wonderful culture that comes from the First Amendment. But we don't actually have that. It wasn't that long ago that we had blas blasphemy laws i know that they're being argued for again under the labor government through um the islamophobia law that's trying to be put um put through overseen by angela reyna but uh the the it was when was the mary white house uh case was that in the that in the late 70s yes um yes. So we've quite literally had blasphemy laws in the very recent past. And free speech is not, even though the great tracks and articles of free speech that we think of,

the pieces like Erech Pagetica by John Milton or John Stuart Mill or John Locke, these other greats of free speech, even though they are English and British, and we think of this being the island of free speech, if you actually look at the record, it's not such a golden picture. So obviously in America, this has really shocked, especially Republicans. I mean, Mike Lee, in response to your question, wrote on it, should British citizens be eligible for asylum in the US if they have faced criminal prosecution for exercising their free speech rights? There were also major media figures, too, who spoke out against this. Liz Churchill, I never thought I'd watch a White House briefing where a

British media influencer outright asked the press secretary if that considered political asylum for the Brits facing prison for posting memes on social media. Then you've also got the head of the Babylon Bee, Joel Berry, saying bringing in Brits who are persecuted for their political speech is exactly the kind of thing our asylum program was designed for. Patriotic, conservative Brits would be a great addition to America. So I mean, this is being taken really seriously, Winston. And it looks like there could actually potentially be, I mean, you could imagine J.D. Vance, for example, wanting to jump on the back of this with a couple of those people who have been found guilty of silent prayer outside abortion clinics. I mean, I guess what I'm asking is, do you sense some traction overnight as a

result of your question? Of the examples you gave, Senator Mike Lee is the most prominent, but I'll note I've had private messages from high ranking members of the administration saying this is a very good idea, more than one. And so it's definitely been resonating with some people, whether it gets back to the president and the top, we'll see. Although one thing I notice is that, and my experience at the White House all of yesterday, is that these, his detractors won't like to admit it, but they really listen. Like they really are paying attention to everything's going, what's going on. Vice President J.D. Vance is a very online vice president, which his detractors knock him for, but they're paying attention. And they also,

they love these things that go viral. This is kind of how they sort of operate. I've noticed that even with how they put all the placards up of the deportees yesterday, they like to control the media by doing these publicity stunts. So whether they would actually do it or whether they might end up using it as a publicity stunt, either way, it might be helpful for us in Britain who care about these issues. Absolutely. I mean, the point is, it's sad, isn't it? But we are completely reliant at the moment on the United States of America to save us. Because, I'm sorry, Winston, when you have a Prime Minister, Slippery Starmer, as I call him, who is prepared to sit in the Oval Office, look into the eye of the Vice President, J.D. Vance, who has asked a question based on

research, based on evidence, based on something that we all know is going on, and provide a bare-faced lie as a reply. And the mainstream media in the UK don't even bother to call him out on it. I mean, we do need help, don't we? We actually do need help. Yeah, we do need help. And I was also hoping there were other issues that the president might help us on, for example, the Chagos deal, which is just an absolute act of absurdity. But I have to say, and this having spent a bit of time there in other parts of D.C., the message is actually that the president really likes Zakir Starmer. And I think this is partly to do with how the president operates. It's that he it's if he gets on with you in person, that's kind of that's how he doesn't really care what you've said or tweeted about him before.

If you if he if he likes the way you treat him in person, he basically likes you. Now, the plus side of that, although he might not address the Chagos deal or free speech stuff in the end, the plus side, of course, is that we're in a more favorable position on the tariff deal, which is extremely important, really. We've obviously our, we're having, we had the minimum in position of 10%, 10%. I would say that it's not entirely clear whether we've got the 10% deal because he likes us or because the Americans actually have a trade surplus with us. And the whole trade deal is about the American trade deficit. So that's not entirely clear.

But what is true, and I keep hearing this again and again, is that the president actually really likes Sir Keir Starmer. In a very bizarre interview that the president gave with Ben Dominic at the Spectator, which is a written interview. He kept saying how much he likes Zakir Starmer's voice. Now, when I read that, I spit out my coffee because... It's the most monotone voice that we all would love to never hear again. Yeah, quite. But it's the British accent, Winston. They just love it. They love it. They love even the worst British accent. Come on. It opens doors for you.

Everyone's saying to you right now, Winston, aren't they? Oh, you're just so charming. We want you back. We love your accent. It helps. Don't get over there. It does help. I can say total nonsense bullshit.

And if I say it with enough charm and I kind of ham up the poshness, they seem to like it. It doesn't go down so well back home. No, indeed. Well, look, Winston, I want to ask about what's going on back home, especially because your interview with Nigel Farage on The Winston Marshall Show, which I recommend everyone subscribe to, of course, on YouTube, has still caused significant waves even all of these weeks on. So I want to ask you about that because it's obviously a really critical week for UK politics in just one minute. So please

don't go anywhere. But first, you know how often I talk about the need for free speech to be protected. And I've been increasingly thinking of the need for personal protection from snoopers, bad actors and hackers online. I'm delighted to tell you I have now found the fail-safe solution. But what's more, this VPN, virtual private network to use the that encrypts all your internet traffic meaning your online activity stays safe so you can shop stream browse and conduct your banking online in complete privacy but what i love is that the benefits of surf shark actually go way beyond keeping you safe online it also allows you to access your favorite entertainment news shows news channels and international streaming services like hulu iplayer hbo max peacock netflix amazon prime disney plus the full works within seconds as if you were watching from

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Winston Marshall, it is a big week in British politics, local elections, people are talking about a reform quake. However, there are some genuine concerns about the fact that Nigel Farage is seeming to tack to the centre on a whole load of key issues. And indeed, earlier in my digest, I actually played him on the BBC, on the British Bashing Corporation this morning. He's not to the independent media at the moment. He's going back to the MSM. He was actually saying that he doesn't even view Reform UK as a right-wing or a left-wing party. I'm going to play a little bit of your interview in just one moment, because this is where some of those concerns, I guess, started to spread that there was some type of move away from a Trump-MAGA-style policy approach. But I'm interested to know whether

you have sensed a change in Nigel Farage. Is he trying to tack to the centre? And do you think that is a wise electoral strategy? I'm not sure I would say he's trying to tack to the centre. Let me just give you some details that help my thinking to why he might say he's not a right-wing party. So the obvious example is he said that he would like to nationalize British steel. Now, this is a completely crazy sentence if you believe he's a Thatcherite, which is what I thought he was a Thatcherite economically. This is the opposite of Thatcherism. Now, I think there's an argument to be had for nationalizing British steel, even though I'm extremely against socialism.

And the reason, the only argument I've got is that at the moment it's owned by the Chinese. So it's not just owned by the state. It's owned by a foreign state and it's owned by an adversarial foreign, it's owned by a foreign state, and it's owned by an adversarial foreign state and an adversarial communist foreign state. So I think it would be preferable that it's owned by the British state than them. But as to whether he's right or left, no, I think that he is populist. And we are in the new populist age, and it isn't really a right left thing. In fact, if we if you're making the reference to Trump and MAGA. Yes, on the one hand, Trump is very deregulation and Treasury Secretary Scott Besson has made it clear that deregulation is a big part of his project. tariffs since Bretton Woods, or sorry, I should say, yeah, since Bretton Woods have been a left wing cause. It was in America, Bernie Sanders and Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi who have been

arguing for tariffs to protect the workers. So the old paradigm of right-left doesn't help to understand what Farage and reform are. And Lee Anderson, lest we forget, was MP for Labour. Yes, he was. Not only that, they've been appealing to the Red Wall. And I think the appeal for the Red Wall to vote for Boris was not because Boris was economically right wing. On the contrary, he was probably culturally on the right, but economically appealed to them through levelling up and funding the NHS. I think that you might say a left wing economically. So I don't think it's unfair for Farage to say he's not a right wing party.

And I guess you can certainly take that approach, for example, when it comes to industrialisation, when it comes to the unions, which he's trying to reach out to. I guess, Winston, where I have concerns and where I know a lot of my audience have concerns is on the issue of Islam in particular. And this was really one of the most seminal interviews with Nigel Farage in recent months on the brilliant Winston Marshall show where he said this. So let's just watch it, Winston, again. Played a lot on my show, but then I'll get your reaction off the back.

But the nub of it is, we have a Muslim population in Britain growing by about 75% every 10 years. That's just where we are. If we politically alienate the whole of Islam, we will lose. We'll lose. So how does one include them? We will lose.

By 2050, goodness knows what kind of a terrible state we're going to be in. I mean, fascinating. You could argue realpolitik in action, but a lot of people feel that this is Nigel sort of giving up and accepting that we're not going to be a Christian country. I'm not sure. We might find disagreement here, Dan, which would be healthy. Yes, always.

I see in Britain is Islamism. And there are obviously also problems about mass migration. And there's been a lot of negative consequences about mass migration. And they have come predominantly from specific, those negatives have been coming from specific communities. And I think it's important we have those conversations he's saying and very brave standing up to the Islamists within the British Muslim community. And now, I'm not trying to underplay the issue of Islamism in Britain. It's interesting because, of course, there's Zia Yusuf as a Muslim chairman. He's obviously a mainstream guy, although a lot of people have concerns.

I guess this is where you get into the whole Gad Saad argument. You know, he would say, Winston, well, there's no difference. There is no difference. There's no such thing as extreme Islam or no difference between Islamism and Islam. It's all the same thing. But you disagree. I think that if here's my white pill, right? So if you look at Muslim majority countries, specifically the Emiratis right now, I think that they are the shining example. Not only do the Emiratis want peace and trade with the West and Israel, they have been better on the issue of Islamism than the British themselves. Only a couple of months ago, the Emiratis wrote up a list of 10 Muslim Brotherhood affiliated organizations in Britain

with absolutely absurd... I have to dig up the list, but the names are like Wembleyy, Carwash, it's kind of all these different things that they've highlighted. No, these are Islamist groups. Now, I would probably say it's probably true that Islamism will always be an issue as long as Islam is about. It's hard to argue that if you read the Quran, if you take the Quran, literally, it's a pretty short road to Islamism. However, I don't think that that is all Muslims. And I think that, for example, here in America, where I am, the majority of American Muslims voted for Trump. And they are conservative by the majority of them are socially conservative. And actually, probably here in America, they are also economically conservative by comparison.

And I mean, that's what Farage is banking on. That is what he is saying to you, really, in that interview. We need these guys. I just personally believe it's delusional. It's not going to happen. I mean, you've seen the direction of politics in this country, Winston, which is that actually the biggest threat to a whole load of Labour MPs at the next election is not going to come from the right. It's going to come from the sectarian MPs. I think a lot of them are extremists. They're the types of people that believe that first cousin marriage should be legalized. But it is interesting. And this is going to be a very, very real debate over the next few years. Winston, just just can I may I please, you know, I don't want to for a second, give the impression that I'm underplaying the horrors of Islamism and what it's done to our

country. And not least, it's revolting to hear people arguing for cousin marriage in government. It's just a shame on the Palace of Westminster. But one thing that the British have not tried is actual law and order with this stuff, if we actually punish the perpetrators of the rape gangs, if we actually deport all of the illegal immigrants here, if we actually take our laws seriously across the board, no matter who it is, and if we take ourselves seriously, if the British start taking themselves seriously, I believe that that would mean that those trying to undermine us, those against who we are, will actually respect us and stop misbehaving. Now, it might be the case that that doesn't work, but we haven't even tried that. So let's try that. We haven't. I mean, look, it is a very good point. Of course, we've got to try.

I mean, I just think about the interview I did with this incredible guy. I'd actually love to hear. I think he'd be a great guest for the Winston Marshall show. Sahail Ahmed, who is the former Islamist wannabe terrorist who intended to blow up Canary Wharf in London and he radicalized and turns out he's gay right so so for him that was his journey out but if he had been straight there probably wouldn't have been a journey out and what was so disturbing to me speaking to him Winston is that he is British born and what is being taught at the mosques is literally that me as a gay man, I should be thrown off the roof of a skyscraper. I mean, you're right, we haven't tried to tackle it.

But obviously, how that is the big question. But look, I just before you go, Winston, want to ask you because of course, we've had this discussion on our former GB News show before, but interesting time in the music industry, the entertainment industry, you found global fame as one of the members of Mumford and Sons. Have you noticed a change since the election of Trump? Because it feels like there is some sense that maybe that uber-wokeness, you know, I'm thinking Disney's Snow White being a commercial disaster, you know, there are some, are there some signs of hope that maybe the entertainment industry is waking up?

Well, if you're referring to the market, the people who are consuming it, yeah, they're working out. But the industry themselves, you know, you ask it's Snow White and Hollywood. And I haven't got an insight necessarily into Hollywood, although Snow White would have been a bitter blow. And the numbers they got from that, it was disastrous, if I've got that correctly. I've just been following the story of Knee who are a, an Irish band. Um, and they make sort of rap. I don't know if they're Irish or Northern Irish, but they have been caught on camera saying up Hamas,

up Hezbollah, uh, kill a Tory or, and, uh, worming themselves out with some sort of measly, uh, apology.

But, you know, their ideology is very much in keeping with a lot of what we've seen in Ireland and a lot of the abhorrent responses to October 7th. And they seem to have been growing massively in popularity, despite these heinous opinions of theirs. So I'm not sure, it's quite hard to tell. And I also have a bias in the work I do now. I have a lot of people reaching out to me and saying they totally agree, and prominent people within the arts.

So I've got a skewed view. I can't tell whether things are changing or whether I have the information is leading me to think things are changing. Well, indeed, because when you see this at Coachella and that was during kneecaps set. You sort of think maybe not. And as you say, they have literally called for the death of conservative MPs. And you've got David Amess's daughter, the wonderful Katie Amess, coming out and saying, hang on a moment. And then, Winston, Mumford & Sons are actually back, which a lot of people didn't expect. They have released new music. Now, this is the first album without you. It's not the same for me, Winston.

There's a whole load of us. We're like Mumford and Son refuse Knicks now. But has that been weird for you to see your former band release new music for the first time without you as part of it? I wish them all the best. And as I've said, I think on your shows before, and I hope that they are happy and fulfilled in the work that they're doing. And I have not as good though, is it? The music isn't as good without you. I've been thoroughly enjoying my work. It's great to be out here in Washington, D.C.

I actually played a show in North Carolina two weeks ago with Oliver Anthony. You might remember for a couple of years ago, he had this viral song, Richmond. Oh, I love him. I love him. He's a great lad. You were on stage with him, were you?

I played for a whole set with him, actually. He invited me. I thought he might be playing one or two songs. And he's like, no, you're playing the whole set. And this is the first time I played banjo live on stage in over five years. I had done a solo tour just playing songs I'd written around the States. And I'd put out singles and stuff in the meantime. But this is the first time playing banjo and it was completely invigorating

and liberating and just wonderful. Are you considering recording with him or was it just a live thing? I definitely hope to do more with him. He's going to be coming to Britain for a tour later in the year and I'm going to try and catch more stuff. I genuinely love this guy guy I love his music he obviously had the big viral hit didn't he which went to number one but he he's he's such a talent exactly but of course I saw him sorry no you go with some I saw him play at the Shepard's

Bush Empire uh end of last year and it was such a bizarre experience. It's one thing to experience it in America, but in London where it was basically a room full of brogans. And by brogan, what I mean is bros who listen to the Joe Rogan experience. All wearing plaid and trucker hats. And between every single song,

they were chanting, Joe Biden's a beetle were you like these are my people these are my people yeah they're quite i couldn't quite believe it um and but he's this guy's incredible he's trying to go around all of the live nation ticket master big corporates i mean we keep hearing that musicians are supposed to be raging against the machine all of these musicians are raging for the machine. But Oliver Anthony is actually going up against the corporates. He's actually going up against big business. He's actually going up against the monopolies. This is a man after my own heart. This is the he is the change he wants to see in the world. He's going direct to the people. And it's just phenomenal. And I also believe, literally believe, he's the greatest songwriter working in America today. Yeah, he is such a talent.

Okay, I'm definitely going to get tickets to his show. Winston, so brilliant to have you for the first time on Outspoken. And, of course, I am a subscriber, both on Substack and YouTube, but I highly recommend the Winston Marshall show. I mean, this was I mean, you went totally viral around the world for this, didn't you? It's quite a title. That's not the video you might think it is. It's YouTube, not you porn, I might add.

But it's really, really worth watching for all of your interviews and congratulations on your question at the White House yesterday because it's got the world talking, got people waking up to what's going on here in the United Kingdom. And my God, we need that, Winston Marshall. So brilliant to see you. Dan, congratulations on all your much deserved success. It's great to see you going from strength to strength to strength. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much. What a show we've had with Winston Marshall and Katie Hopkins. And amazing feedback coming from you on that interview earlier with Katie. This is all via the YouTube live chat. Rojali Gary said, I've got to be honest, I agree with 99% of what Katie Hopkins states.

But on this one occasion stating we should support Reform UK, even with Nigel Farage, a major spokesman, is just wrong. In power, he will be the same as Keir Starmer. Barry Clayton, however, is with Katie. He says Reform, sorry, Rupert, as in Rupert Lowe and Ben Habib are men of integrity who have values and are not flip-flopping like Nigel.

I will vote Reform in the local elections, but I will study reform's policies and manifestos. And a lot of positive support, actually, about Katie Hopkins. Phil says, I have to say I was one of those that I believed the mainstream media about Katie. I can honestly say I was wrong. She's a great voice to have on our side. And this is interesting from Richard B., who said, I know a former runner from this morning, a lefty friend asked her about Katie saying,

I bet she was terrible, et cetera, et cetera. The runner said, no, Katie was the sweetest, kindest person to her. And it is often the way. It is often the way that people who have these big reputations, especially people from the right, are actually the nicest people. Thank you so much too, by the way, for Jen Wilson and her super chat, who says, fabulous Katie and Dan broadcast with the Canadian flag. I mean, goodness me, we haven't even had a chance.

I'm actually too depressed to talk about the Canadian election. I'm not joking. So bad. But if you are in Canada, my God, my heart goes out to you. That is a gut-wrenching result. And that leads us on very perfectly, actually, to Union Jackass, your three nominees. Mark Carnage. And yeah, I did say Mark Carnage. Nominated by Cam Cravier, after voters Anna Island 17. She is the governor of Woodhill Prison, and this is because she has denied Tommy Robinson visitors again, including, we believe, someone who is cancer-stricken. And Meghan Markle, nominated by Becca Thorn-Cuvist, and that is because the Duchess of Sausages, that's Becca's word, but I love it. It's laughing at our gracious late Queen Elizabeth.

She has no shame. Title should be stripped now. The results are in. 17% of you have gone for Nicola Marfleet. 39% of you make Mark Carney the runner up. But today's Union Jackass with 44% of the vote. Believe it or not not this is the first time she's ever been union jackass Megan Markle more on her in just a moment and the greatest Britain nominated by Darren Donaldson it's Katie Hopkins for never giving up no matter how hard they try to cancel her and wasn't that such a brilliant interview with Katie? So great to have her on Outspoken for the first time. But yes, speaking of our union jackass, Meghan Markle,

standing by right now is Meghan's sister, Samantha Markle, and our royal mastermind, Angela Levin. There is so much to get into today. That shocking, shocking snub of the agreement, the sandringham summit agreement made with queen elizabeth ii plus all of the latest bonkers claims from this new interview we're going to decode them all so make sure you tune in by subscribing at www.outspoken.live that is my sub stack enter your email address hit subscribe it's super's super easy. We're back tomorrow, 5pm UK time, midday Eastern, 9am Pacific. Please hit subscribe if you're watching on YouTube or

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