Dan Wootton Outspoken - KING CHARLES ACCUSED OF BEING "MUSLIM MONARCH" BY DONALD TRUMP ALLY AMID ISLAMIST TAKEOVER

Episode Date: April 3, 2026

BREAKING TODAY: The King is heckled again by republicans on Maundy Thursday, ahead of the Royal Family’s Easter celebrations, as one of Donald Trump’s closest allies suggests Charles III is a “Muslim monarch” with the Islamist takeover of the UK continuing at pace. And while Piers Morgan might disagree, there are increasing questions being raised about King Charles’ commitment to his role as Head of the Church of England. Meanwhile, the increasing societal collapse of the Disunited Kingdom goes on, as parts of Sadiq Khan’s London become uninhabitable. But at least the horror Islamist/trans coalition of the Green Party is already falling apart. We’ll have the best analysis in the business with legendary historian David Starkey – host of the brilliant David Starkey Talks channel on YouTube – and Lois Perry, the UK and Europe Director of the Heartland Institute. PLUS: Nigel Farage brutally sacks his housing spokesperson live on TV after a row over the Grenfell Tower. AND: Sly News turns the Artemis rocket mission around the world into an opportunity to continue its campaign against white men. THEN IN THE UNCANCELLED AFTERSHOW: Prince Philip’s horror over The Crown has finally been revealed, as it emerged he threatened to sue Netflix over false claims regarding his family. Lady Colin Campbell will join us with all the royal latest. Sign up to watch live or on demand and totally ad free at https://www.outspoken.live LIKE & SUBSCRIBE for new videos every day: https://youtube.com/@danwoottonoutspoken?si=-2BhmEbBSN1fyESS?sub_confirmation=1 ---------- Find the full audio show wherever you get your podcasts: Apple — https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dan-wootton-outspoken/id1762436723 Spotify — https://open.spotify.com/show/19Ltoneek2MSPL10CpSA1J?si=8f6d84e2db56448c ---------- Follow Dan on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@outspokendan Follow Dan on Twitter: https://x.com/danwootton Follow Dan on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/danwootton/ Follow Dan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danwootton/?hl=en #DanWootton#DanWoottonOutspoken#news#outspoken#uknews Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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By as no censorship, I'm Dan Witten. This is outspoken episode number 461. Good evening to you. Breaking today, the king heckled again by Republicans on Monday Thursday, ahead of the royal family's Easter celebrations. As one of Donald Trump's closest allies suggests Charles III is a Muslim monarch, part of the Islamist takeover of the UK. Charles III might be the Muslim monarch of England. I mean, they're taking over, and they want to take over. And while Piers Morgan might disagree, there are increasing questions being raised about King Charles's commitment to his role

as head of the Church of England. You realize, Rudy, only 5% of the UK is Muslim, do you? It doesn't matter. I mean, they have tremendous power. How many mayoralties do they have? Islam is part of our past and our present in all fields of human endeavour. It has helped to create Latin Europe. It is part of our own inheritance.

I've had people tell me off-camera, they believe King Charles is a Muslim. Wow, who told you that? I won't say. It was someone very, very high up. He appears to prefer Islam. So he promotes Islam. about Islam, he appears to be happy in his Islamic company. Meanwhile, the increasing societal collapse of the disunited kingdom goes on,

as parts of Sadiq Khan's London become uninhabitable. Oh no, they're getting... Societal breakdown. Clapham the other night was a very clear example of societal breakdown and frightening and worrying. But at least the horror Islamist trans-coolition of the Green Party is already, is already falling apart. The Green Party support self-identifying

gender laws, which means I can wake up in the morning or Shaquil can wake up in the morning as a six-foot man with a beard and identify as a woman. Absolutely, for what everyone must remember in Denton and Godin the Muslim that supported the Green Party did so in a vote of protest.

So after my digest, the best analysis in the business with legendary historian Dr David Starkey host of the brilliant David Starkey Talks channel on YouTube. Also joining us today, Lois Perry, the UK and Europe Director of the Heartland Institute. Also coming up on the show today, Nigel Farage brutally sacks his housing spokesperson live on TV after a row over the Grenfell Tower. Sly News turns the Artemis Rocket Mission around the moon into an opportunity to continue

its campaign against white men. And Katie Hopkins slams. the BBC for its treatment of Radio 2 DJ Steve Wright and Scott Mills while trying to cover for Hugh Edwards. We will have the latest. Then in the Royal Uncanceled After Show on Substack, Prince Phillips Horror Over the Crown. You know, the Netflix series has finally been revealed. As it emerged, he threatened to sue the broadcaster over false claims regarding his family. So Lady Colin Campbell is standing by to join us over on Substack after the main show with all of the Royal latest. Okay. I've also nominated. for Union Jackass today alongside Dr. Starkey and Lois Perry. So I've gone for Thomas Moore. You're

going to see him later in the show. He's the sly news guy who was very much, oh, it's terrible that white men used to go up in space. Lois has gone for Zach Polansky. I call him the tit whisperer. She says he embodied the out-of-touch radical left this week by headlining the Together Alliance's massive march against the far right. and Dr David Stalky has gone for Jeremy Hunt. Dr. Stalky, why Mr. Hunt? I don't know your reasoning behind this. I mean, I'm all for it.

I'm not a fan, but why? For the simple reason, I wanted to plug my show. Come on, what you do most of the time. I interviewed Jeremy Hunt last week as part of the Oxford Literary Festival, the most extraordinary event. Here I am sitting in my informal dining room in the country. There I was sitting in the grandest space in Oxford, the Sheldonian theatre in front of this huge audience doing a David Starkey talks. And we had Jeremy Hunt plugging his latest book.

And the reason that he's been nominated very firmly as, can we just call it UJ? Yes, we can. We can just call it. The reason he'd been nominated as UJ is the performance he put up, which Dan genuinely explained why we had had. a conservative government for 14 years that did absolutely nothing conservative. Every single thing he said could have been said by Tony Blair. And you know what? If you turned his book over, this is from the longest serving minister alongside Michael

Gove. He was in the cabinet for a unique 11 years in supposed Tory governments. Who is the book endorsed by Tony? Blair. I mean, really, there is a genuine, there's a genuine unit. It's a genuine Revolting. Honestly, you're almost making me want to vote for him over Zach Polanski. But Lois, who is here with us too. She is obviously going for Polanski today. So there you go. You're going head to head and we will be back with you both very, very shortly after the digest. But now, let's go. On Monday Thursday, today, King Charles made an increasingly rare

public commitment to his role as head of the Church of England, continuing the tradition beloved by his late mother in Wales for only the second time in history. But the growing scandal surrounding his reign, given the cover-up of Andrew Mountbatten Windsor's alleged crimes, is now being exploited by the country's growing Republican movement. And by the way, I don't support these cratins. They despicably graffitied all over the church today in an election. legal act which I think should get them all locked up. But the problem is, they're here and they're using Charles's vulnerability. Watch. So, five, ten. What does he know, Charles? So there is now a growing on the question. So do you know? So there is now a growing concern. And, you know. So,

And secret discussion. You know I don't like secret discussions. That's why I'm going to have it here with you, ahead of Easter, that Charles's long-held sympathy for Islamism has impacted his religious role as the defender of the faith. Indeed, Rudy Giuliani, one of Donald Trump's closest longtime allies, expressed the views of many Christians just this week during an explosive interview with Piers Morgan. I have people from England telling me you're going to be a Muslim country in 10 years. I mean, the Anglican church, The Roman Catholic Church is bigger in England now than the Anglican Church. And Charles III might be the Muslim monarch of England. I mean, they're taken over, and they want to take over. And Rudy Giuliani wasn't the first. Lauren, the insider recently went viral for this claim to Andrew Gold.

I've had people tell me off-camera. They believe King Charles is a Muslim. Wow. Who told you that? I won't say. It was someone very, very high up. But I've been mourned, don't talk about Islam, it's not safe. He's had Qataris or Saudis turn up at the palace with a million pounds in cash in a Fortimer Mason bag for his charity. What exchange is there for that? And do we know this?

Yeah, we know this. This is a fact. That's extraordinary. And this is what Gavin Ashton, Chaplin to Queen Elizabeth II, from 2008 to 2017, told Lauren on the matter. All we can tell is he appears to prefer Islam. So he promotes Islam, he talks about Islam,

he appears to be happy in his Islamic company, and there's nothing wrong with being nice to Muslims. Muslims are human beings before there anything else. We should love our fellow human beings, but it's about proportion. And so if he's king of the whole country, you would expect his behavior, his language, his preferences to be proportionate. But they're not. They favor one community above all others.

And it's Islamic. So we don't know why. We just know that that's how it is. Now what we do know is that Charles has never hid his admiration for Islam, even suggesting before the 9-11 terrorist attacks, that it was the culture of the West that needed to adapt. You realize, Rudy, only 5% of the UK is Muslim, do you? It doesn't matter.

I mean, they have tremendous power. How many mayoralties do they have? They have a few maralties. But this idea is a lot of Americans. I'm increasingly concerned that a lot of you guys seem to have this idea that we're literally being overrun by Muslims. And I don't know where it's coming from. Because I live in London.

I don't get any feeling I'm being overrun by Muslims. Well, I haven't, I wasn't one than a year. Islam is part of our past and our present in all fields of human endeavor. It has helped to create Latin Europe. It is part of our own inheritance, not a thing apart. Islam can teach us today a way of understanding and living in the world which Christianity itself is the poorer for having lost. Our judgment of Islam has been closely distorted by taking extremes to be the world.

That, ladies and of them, is a serious mistake. It is like judging the quality of life in Dipple by the existence of murder and rape, child abuse, drug addiction. extremes do exist and they must be dealt with but when used as a basis to judge society they lead to distortion and unfairness we in the West need also I think to understand the Islamic world's view of us there is nothing to be gained and much harm to be done

seems to me by refusing to comprehend the extent to which many people in the Islamic world genuinely fear are over Western materialism and mass culture as a deadly challenge to their Islamic culture and way of life. The fact is that our form of materialism can be offensive to devout Muslims, and I do not just mean the extremists among them. And ahead of the King's increasingly controversial state visit to the USA later this month to meet with an agitated Trump, threatening to pull out of NATO, the fears of what our suicidal leaders are allowing to happen in the

United Kingdom are going mainstream. I realize, Rudy, only 5% of the UK is Muslim. It doesn't matter. I mean, they have tremendous, they have tremendous power. How many mayoralties do they have? They have a few maralties. But this idea is a lot of Americans, I'm increasingly concerned that a lot of you guys seem to have this idea

that we're literally being overrun by Muslims. And I don't know where it's coming from. Because I live here. I live in London. I don't get any feeling I'm being overrun by Muslims. Well, I mean, I was in London about a year and a half ago, and it seemed to me there were an awful lot of women with veils on that I had never seen before.

And you have debates over whether Sharia law should be respected. Of course it shouldn't be respected. Sharia law is a cult of death. I mean, the Koran is a cult of death. But Sharia law has no legal standing in the UK. Well, not according to a lot of reports that I read in different parts of England. It actually dominates. And Stiermer seems to be very, very affected by them politically.

He seems to want to make them happy, make them contented. And certainly it doesn't seem to be trying to make them English. Nor do the French seem to be trying to make them French. They're contrary to immigration and assimilation. They just do the immigration part. Immigration, and then follow Muhammad. What did Mohammed tell him to do? Take over.

Now, Pearce couldn't be more wrong, and I think he is indicative of a millionaire, liberal elite class that dominates the UK mainstream media and has absolutely no idea of what is actually happening to our country. Ordinary folk, we all know. You only have to look at the scenes. In Sadiq Khan's London this week, where the new Clapham riots have been largely ignored,

despite the most horrifying scenes of looting and fires and violence. Reform UK's Zia Yusuf is on to this one, posting if the hooligans terrorising Clapham and assaulting police officers were white and waving the flag of St George, the police response would have been swift and heavy. Instead, the only arrest so far have been three teenage girls. Reform will end two-tier policing. He then shared this video of the carnage.

Fucking idiots, boy. I let you try to trip him, he tried to trip him. He tried to trip him. Oh, no. Is this what? Look at these movies. Oh, look. Oh, no.

They got him. Why is he? He should have run. Fucking idiots, boy. What? What, fucking idiots. This is what clapping is because. Nigel Farage said what happened in clapping was because.

Nigel Farage said what happened in Clapham was indicative of Britain's societal decay. So, yeah, appalling scenes. And actually, it points to, I'm going to go back to this, actually. You know, June the 3rd, 2024, I announced I was coming out of retirement, come back into politics. And one of the reasons I cited was societal breakdown. Clapham the other night was a very clear example of societal breakdown and frightening and worrying. But we've got to have the tough conversations that so much of this is because of an imported religion.

Kiera Disse pointed out crowds of teenagers flooded parts of London last night, including Clapham and North London, and allegedly celebrating Congo's World Cup qualifier win. Yobbs were seen recording themselves inhaling nitrous oxide as disorder spread, with roads blocked and residents reporting chaotic scenes. A car was crashed amidst the carnage and the driver can be seen fleeing. This video will be sent to police. The incident adds to growing frustration over rising antisocial behavior. We must see consequences.

Watch. This is live you're watching. Wine, ha. I don't know. Probably, bro, I'm waved, bro. You want me to phone public when I'm waived from. Like, boy, man, just won. We just won.

We're guest up and now the vibe is kind of... What the fuck does it do you like in there, too? Guess, man. Yet the fake conservatives and the elite classes, people like Rory Stewart still rush to scream racism

if you try to tackle any of this. I think we've got to be very clear that this is basically racism. I mean, essentially, the AFD in Germany or the far right in Britain or all those people on social media who are talking about Judeo-Christian values and saying, I've got nothing against people of color,

I just don't like Islam, are basically racist. I mean, essentially, what they're trying to do is drive hundreds of thousands, millions of people out of their country. I mean, the AFD, some of their leadership are very clear about it. They talk about remigration. You're a Muslim, you're going to be shoved out of Germany. And it's the most amazing nonsense. This idea that somehow Islam itself is a kind of inherently bad religion

and other religions are sort of inherently good is completely demented. I mean, the whole world history is littered with Christians doing horrible things. Buddhists doing. I mean, you really want to see madness. I mean, even Buddhism has a kind of radical French Hindu nationalists doing that things, right? Religious Zionists in Israel doing horrible things. All of them, if you're an extremist, appealing to some weird scriptural justification. But the point is that the extremism proceeds the scriptural justification. It's not driven by the scriptural justification, right? This same Islam, and I've spent a lot of my life living in Muslim countries, I grew up, partly in Malaysia, I lived in Afghanistan, I lived in Iraq, I lived in Pakistan.

I, my lived experience is of extremely generous, dignified, thoughtful, empathetic societies, which don't begin to resemble the kind of ideas that white non-Muslims develop. The increasingly awaited John Cleese responded, this is complete nonsense. To criticize a culture whose holy book advocates the killing of all the people they disagree, with is not racist, it's culturalist. And this criticism seems wholly justifiable to me. Oh, there's the doorbell. Must be the police. Academic Gad SAD also weighed in, writing, Dear Rory Stewart, not wanting your society to be overrun by Islam, is apparently racist. But Stuart replied if you were interested in why

Islamophobia is often simply racism, perhaps examine the timelines of some of the people who so enthusiastically follow you on everything. You are using texts in a way which is false to the lived experience of almost all religious believers, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus. You really think, 2 billion people, a quarter of the world's population believe or want to implement what you claim? And what would you propose to do about it if they did? Well, let me tell you, for a start, Rory, keep our country, Christian. Surely that is a good start. Surely that makes sense. But there is a battle for the soul of Britain that so many don't see.

But what Tommy Robinson describes as the Komi Islamic Unholy Alliance in the Serging Green Party, and guess what? The good news is it's inevitably breaking down. Cleese added that didn't take long. And let me show you. Watch at Medi Koo. Stop scrolling. This could change your life.

The Green Party supports self-identifying gender laws, which means I can wake up in the morning or Shaquil can wake up in the morning as a six-foot man with a beard and identify as a woman. Absolutely. For what everyone must remember in Denton and Gorton, the Muslims that supported the Green Party did so in a vote of protest. We must understand that the Green Party's policy

are way further than even the Labour Party's policy. We must have independent candidates to speak for the hymns of their people and not people who are sitting in London in fancy suits. There are safeguarding issues as well as moral issues. women's sports, men can compete in them. Women's spaces, toilet, men can go inside them. These are not little concerns. These are major concerns for the community and beyond. And we will continue to identify every policy of the Greens and every other party that goes against your moral and philosophical beliefs.

But the problem is Labor, which is so desperate to win back the Islamist vote, it won't even ban the Muslim Brotherhood. a threat from within that I agree. We cannot afford to ignore. But rather than tackle any of these issues, the British Bashing Corporation is now wheeling out its living legends to prostitute themselves and destroy any semblance of impartiality on an empty Trump cause. After he admitted, the US president this is,

considering pulling out of NATO in an interview with the Daily Telegraph where he also claimed the king would back his war. war in Iran. So one of those living legends, David Dimbleby, unfortunately, showed his true political colours as he was given a prime spot on BBC News's Newsnight to advocate against the visit with personal insults of narcissism and bullying against Trump. We're dealing with a president who is a narcissist and a bully, and he's been bullying Britain. he's been rude about the armed forces, about our role in Afghanistan. The king is head of the armed forces.

And I think a rebuke of some kind is necessary. I don't see that the full panoply of a state banquet and a speech at Congress is appropriate. I think it's a misuse of the king who has to do what he's told by the government. But I think it's giving Trump more than he deserves. I mean, let's just remember when Trump came in, do you remember Stama with this? This is a letter. Racking it out, the big moment in the Oval Office.

This is a letter. Yeah. It's only the second time in history that somebody's been in. And Trump was all over it, you know, coming to the visitor in Windsor. Isn't that just what you have to do to increase the wheels of the world? Our relationship with the United States is not one of mutual affection. It's a deal.

It always has been. a deal in the First World War when they came in late. It was a deal in the Second World War when they waited until Pearl Harbor happened. It's always been a negotiated deal. The relationship has been a good one, but it's not as if we're sort of bonded with friendship. Rubbish. Absolute rubbish from Timbubble. What are you doing? Of course Charles needs to go and present the strengths of the Union. And actually, he's got the perfect blueprint to follow. 50 years ago, at the 200th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, his mother, Queen Elizabeth 2nd, issued these powerful words during her state visit. It seems to me that Independence Day

the 4th of July should be celebrated as much in Britain as in America, not in rejoicing at the separation of the American colonies from the British Crown, but in sincere gratitude to the founding fathers of this great republic for having taught Britain a very valuable lesson. We lost the American colonies because we lacked that statesmanship to know the right time and the manner of yielding what is impossible to keep. But the lesson was learned. In the next century and a half, we kept more closely to the principles of Magna Carta, which have been the common heritage of both countries. We learned to respect the right of others, to govern themselves in their own ways. This was the outcome of experience learned the hard way in 1776.

Without that great act in the Cause of Liberty performed an Independence Hall 200 years ago, we could never have transformed an empire into a Commonwealth. But how much we miss that woman today? Because breaking right now, G.B. News, has just reported that Buckingham Palace has confirmed King Charles will not issue an Easter message this year at all.

Last year he did on Mondee Thursday but this year despite all of the criticism despite the fact that Charles did issue a message to Muslims accompanied by a graphic that said Ramadan Mubarak on Ramadan, nothing for Christians.

Unfortunately, I think this really confirms my point that Houston, we have a problem. Now, David Starkey and Lois Perry. Dr. Stalky, I mean, can you think of any reason why the King would think this year, I'm not going to issue an Easter message? Can we just start again? If we'd been having this program,

if I'd been on your program last week, I'd have probably been nodding along. Dare I say, your researchers didn't pick up something very important, which is there was a major article in the telegraph last week, very long, very detailed, very well documented, about Charles' relationship with not Islam, but what increasingly is its opposite, because of the terrible struggles of the Middle East, Judaism. Remember, King Charles, at his coronation, had the chief rabbi as an honored guest.

There's no point in looking at this. We need to be looking at his relationship to Jews. He not only had the chief rabbi there at Clarence House the night before the coronation, he was respecting his religious observances, which meant that he couldn't take a car to the Abbey. So at Clarence House, he was in an easy walking distance. And I think we're getting it a bit wrong, and I think Gavin is getting it wrong, and obviously Rudy, although in political terms, I think he's saying very important things. On this question of Charles is, let's get this right, multi-religiosity.

Charles is very strange, in one sense. Normally we think people are a Christian, there are a Muslim, there are a Jew, they're a Sikh, whatever it is. But Charles sees all of these as different ways to the same God. And it's very confused. There you are. You're seeing it with the chief rabbi and extraordinarily close relations. And I think this is, this remember is not news, is it? And way, way, way back, Dan, you will remember, Charles says,

I want to be defender of faith. Yes. He absolutely consistent on this. And just one second, and then I'll... But I think it is important that we put this big picture very, very firmly before us. And then we can discuss why his particular relationship with Islam is as controversial as it is at the moment, because there's a good reason for that as well. But you see, in so many ways, you've been talking about societal collapse and everything else.

We are very much like the later Roman Empire. And there's a wonderful phrase in that great book, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon, the mother's sentence, which goes like this and listen to it carefully. In Rome, the people thought that all religions were equally truthful. The philosophers thought that they were all equally wrong, and the politicians thought that they were all equally useful. And I think getting into a very, very, in this multiracial, multicultural, multireligious society, we're getting very near that point. And to understand, Charles, that those are the kind of thoughts you've got to have in your mind to begin with.

Of course, the reason that it stands out like a sore thumb is that the Labour Party and the Green Party have been doing something very different. They are using religious belief as a political tactic. Of course they are. And Giuliani is right and peers, not for the last time in his life, is utterly and completely wrong in many areas of the country because the most, yes, use this word bluntly, the primitive. the simplest, the most peasant-like Muslim groups, those that come the midi-puri from the edges of the Punjab, live together in what are really village communities. And they're not even village communities, they're clans.

So they control the entire structure of local government, of the Labour Party. They penetrated the police force, and hence all sorts of things. Hence the rape gangs, that they're worse. Hence also things like the mass voting, what is called euphemistically family voting, when the heads of the clans tell everybody else, and particularly the women, how to vote. So they vote as a block. So King Charles's multi-religiosity is then highlighted by this highly tactical, deliberate exploiting of the peculiar non-individualistic behavior of a particular religiousity.

group, which puts these big questions. That's, that's my view. Well, indeed, because Lois, let me just share with you some of this initial reaction coming in in regards to Charles's decision not to release an Easter message. Bernie Spofforth posting on X, what? The king of the UK who gave official Ramadan messages from the palace during Lent will not be issuing an Easter message for Christians this year, it appears the leader of the faith doesn't really want to lead a Christian country. I mean,

you can take in everything that Dr. Starkey has just said in regards to Charles and Judaism, but at the same time, the King is meant to be acutely aware of optics, of PR. Yeah,

I'm absolutely flabbergasted, Dan. When you said breaking news and you read out, the news. I just, I thought, is it April Thursday? I realize that one day late. Yeah, one day late. Maybe that's the biggest joke of all. But having very recently visited the UAE on a fact-finding trip, I was taught the difference between Islam and

political Islam and also how civilized Muslim cultures interpret the Quran completely differently. So I must agree with Dr. Sarky that when he talks about as a particular countries and particular groups of people that vote as a bloc with their particular highly medieval interpretation of what is political Islam that is the problem, the Arabs that I spoke to and that I was briefed by the representatives of the royal family, the ruling brothers, had no interest whatsoever. in using Islam as a political dominant tool or taking over the world. In fact, I went to a thing called the Abrahamic House, family house,

where a mosque, a synagogue and a church had been built all in the same area. And they were very much in favor of bringing communities together. And they couldn't get their heads around at all. why in this country we were not proscribing the Muslim Brotherhood, the IRGC, is that right? I think so. Yes. They couldn't get their hedge around it at all. They didn't understand why the information that they were passing on to our security services

was not being acted on. I was asked to convey that information to various individuals that they wanted to help moving forward. and yeah, so I completely agree with Dr. Starkey's... Well, see, I just don't believe this multi-faith country is working. I really don't. But Dr. Starkey, at the very least, at the very least, can you concede that King Charles isn't doing enough to push the cause of Christianity,

to push the Church of England, which is literally one of his biggest job? Like, literally. He is supreme governor of the Church of England. Please, young man, don't teach me these things. As somebody more aware than most of the history of this. Let's do what we should be doing, which is trying to think about this. If, again, Lois, I think might even have been there when I attended art last year,

I have the extraordinary experience of being greeted like a blood brother from the delegation from the United Arab Emirates. And I don't think I've ever been embraced by somebody in a tea towel before. So it was really quite a jolly experience. But what you see in the UAE is what we used to have in Britain. We had the very firm position that religion should be controlled by the state. What you have in the UAE is an Islam that is firmly told what to do by the Emir or in Saudi Arabia by the king. What we have here is an Islam unleashed. And unfortunately, exactly the same thing has gone wrong with the Church of England.

The reason that we used to have, Dan, a sensible approach to religion, was it was fundamentally controlled by the state. That's what it means when you have a king who is a supreme governor of a church. So the Church of England very properly, and I can say this as an atheist, was something I was very happy to be attending and whatever, because fundamentally it was the English worshipping themselves, which has always seemed to be through the person of the king emperor. It's always seemed to me to be good. It's a necessary part of public ceremony.

But what happened increasingly in the late 20th century and was forced through dramatically under Labour after 1997 was this idea that religion is purely private. So it's Gordon Brown who frees the Church of England effectively from the role of the Prime Minister, which is why you get deranged appointments like the current Archbishop. By the way, I point out to everybody,

there is actually a Latin term for a female bishop. It's a wonderful one, which I would wish to put into use. It is episcopy. So the Archiposcopi of Canterbury illustrate the problem once you remove, once you actually remove state control, you get the increased silliness and the relevance of the Church of England. And what we should be doing. And interestingly, the one faith that at the moment is profoundly mindful of its duty to the king, to the state, to the government is Judaism. that there are formal weekly prayers. And Judaism with its welcoming back into Britain in the 17th century

and its increasing into penetration in business, government and everything else, has been conspicuously keen to present itself as both loyal to itself, but also loyal to its particular religious commitment. And I think in many ways, you know, Dan, it's a way. forward. I call it biculturalism. I had this extraordinary experience back in the days when I was on the moral mace of having my chief, chief, how can I say, opponent there, a program like this quick moving shot, whatever. And so Hugo, the rabbi of the reformed congregation reformed synagogue in the West End would say something like, you know, David, you're not half as nasty as you appear.

and I would reply flutingly, and you, Hugo Dia, aren't as nice either. But he then invited myself and my partner, my boyfriend, to a Passover. I have, in his house. I have never forgotten it. It was extraordinary. But that is a religion that has accommodated itself firmly to the state. And I want now to float an idea, and I hope it will shock you all. Do you actually know Charles has got rather a good claim to be the Muslim,

caliph. He descends directly from the Spanish royal house of the Middle Ages. He descends directly from the wonderfully named Pedro the Cruel who had relationships with a woman, and again, there was this extraordinary mixing of the races and the cultures in Spain, which of course had been subject to a Muslim conquest, to a Moorish princess, who had a claim to a direct descent from the point. So what I'm wondering is, in this new Britain that we are in now, shouldn't we have a whole series of established religions? That the king, yes, head of the church. And the king, whatever his role would be, he had, that he's addressed in a particular fashion, in Judaism. And we could even have him as Muslim Caliph, providing they were all equally under the control of the state,

equally acknowledged our law, our politics, our central political values. Well, religion, yes. Well, all I would say, all I would say is that I think there's a real difference in the way the public now feel about Judaism compared to Islam because of the threat to our safety, which has been undermined, well, I would argue, since the 7-7 terror attacks in London on July 7th, 2005.

Breaking today, leader of Reform UK, Nigel Farage, who is increasingly appearing to be the dictator of Reform UK, brutally announced the sacking of his now former housing spokesperson, Simon Dudley, at a press conference live on TV

without notifying his party or even his shadow chancellor Robert Jenrick who was sitting right beside him. Now Dudley, who only joined the party in February in a major fanfare, was brutally got rid of over comments he made in an interview with Inside Housing on the Grenfell Tower disaster.

So he was asked whether Grenfell was not an awful warning about insufficient regulation. And he said, that was a tragedy. It was a failure. Sadly, you know everyone dies in the end. It's just how you go right. He continued extracting Grenfell from the statistics. Actually, people dying in house fires is rare. Many, many more people die on the roads, driving cars, but we're not making cars illegal. So why are we stopping houses being built? You can't stop tragic things happening. You can try to minimize excesses, but bad things do. happen. Now, he's trying to make a very sensible point there. And trust me, if you have to deal with the leasehold of a property, getting these fire regulations through without breaking the bank can be virtually impossible post-Grenfowl. Predictably, however, Slippery Stama saw this as an opportunity to damage reform. Posting on X, shameful, Nigel Farage should do the decent thing

and sack him. Sadiq Khan added, this is just sickeningly insensitive, not an ounce of decency, compassionate for the 72 lives lost and wider community. But this isn't a slip-up or a stumble. This is reform showing us exactly who they are. But after the barrage of fake outrage, Simon Dudley clarified his position on X, posting, Grenfair wasn't as a utter tragedy, and quite rightly prompted a wholesale review and tightening of fire regulations. I said it was a tragedy in my interview with inside housing, and in no shape or form am I, belittling that disaster or the huge loss of life. It must never happen again. I reiterate that, and I'm sorry if I was not sufficiently clear. Within the last 24 hours, the Berkeley Group,

one of Britain's biggest house builders has paused new land purchases and announced a hiring freeze. They blame an unprecedented surge in costs and regulation. These concerns have felt across the industry. The result, the UK's long-running housing crisis is getting worse. But you can imagine what happened here. because Nigel Farage wasn't having it. And of course, I think it was actually the way that the sacking was announced that is most chilling about what Reform UK is. Watch. The remarks from your housing spokesman have shot many today

about the issue of the Grenfilt fire. Simon Dudley says that the blaze was a tragedy, but everyone dies in the end. the PM says you should sack him, will you? That's already happened. Forgive me, what's happened? He's no longer a spokesman for the party. And will he stand for, well, he's gone then?

He's left the party or no more else. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, he's not a spokesman for the party. That has been dealt with. Thank you. We go to Chris. Genwick was shocked. I mean, most recently,

Genwick was actually holding up a painting of Simon Dudley with a cap on that said, build, baby, But I guess he knows he has no choice but to go along with Farage. Now, indeed, Farage then revealed he hadn't even spoken to Dudley. And in typical Farage fashion, through Richard Tice under the bus. Yes, it was Richard Tice's fault for hiring this guy in the first place. Clear what you did say to Simon Dudley. Did you say you are sad?

I haven't. I haven't spoken to him. He's under Richard Tice's department. Richard appointed him. Housing spokesman given his depth. of experience in developing new towns, but the comments were deeply inappropriate. They were, frankly, rather shocking to many people,

and Richard has dealt with it. He told him to go or did he offer two times? No, no, no, no. What I've done in this party, I've got a leader of Scotland, a leader of Wales, I've got four people who've taken on their own departments, and they're in charge of those departments, and this takes us so far away

from the old criticism of it being a one-man band. It isn't Richard Tice has dealt with it. Okay, Richard Tice is satin, right. LBC then called Frudge out for not having the courtesy to inform his own party of Dudley sacking before telling the media. Watch. Robert Jenrick, who is sitting next to you, seemed quite surprised when you told us

that your spokesperson was no longer a spokesperson for the party because of his comments about Grenfell. Don't you think you should have told your own party members that that had happened before announcing it to the media today? No, because it happened about an hour ago, hour and a half ago. And it's for Richard Tice to make that announcement, not me. Look, this is not our...

I'm sorry. It's not a one-man band. You know, I've given individuals' responsibility. Robert's brief is very, very clear. That's what today's press conference is all about. This is somebody who was very recently appointed, who whilst he has a, you know, track record in building houses and new towns and stuff like that,

clearly acted yesterday. pretty hurtful, insulting way to an awful lot of people. Now, I think passing the responsibility onto Tysia is actually a distraction to what was probably Farage's real intention to produce a chilling effect that reminds his party that no one is safe and that they are destined to tread on eggshells. That was a public sacking. And I think this is Stalinist Farage at his worst. my superstar panel today, Dr David Stucky and Lois Perry of the Heartland Institute with me.

Lois, you are very close with Nigel Farage. What did you make of that today? Was it the right thing to do? And was the manner of that sacking appropriate? Why would anyone want to come and join Reform UK after a successful career? If that's how you're potentially going to be treated? Dan, your interpretation of what's happened is, so loaded. You know, you know I love you to bits, but Jesus, come on. Well, how? Nigel made it

extremely clear that the dismissal had already happened and it had happened by his immediate superior to Simon Dudley's immediate superior. Richard Tice had actually let him go. It had very recently happened. There hadn't been any announcement yet. But then he was actually confronted with that at a press conference about something else. So then he told everybody. So because if he couldn't win in that situation, because if he'd already been let go by Richard Tice and he said that he hadn't or avoided the question,

he would have been accused of lying or being disingenuous. So he needed to ask. Should he have been sacked? I feel that the problem that you've got is that with reform, everyone is a million times harsher than they are. Exactly. So if Nigel gives in to every single time there's a hysteria, it gets worse. Pardon?

Well, the problem is, Lois, I hear that. I absolutely hear that. I absolutely understand that. But do you not see that by constantly giving into this, Nigel actually ends up encouraging this? Simon's comments were deeply, deeply offensive and completely and utterly inappropriate. And I think to be fair, with this particular thing, if any political representative spokesperson had made comments like that with regards to Grenfell, they would have been calls for their dismissal.

Yes, but we saw the other day, for example, Kemi Badernock, stand by her, Nick Timothy, Her Justice Secretary, when the Prime Minister and Sidic Khan called for him to be sacked over his comments in regards to Sidic Khan's public display of domination in Trafalgar Square at that Ifta. David Starkey, who's right on this Lois Perry and Nigel Farage or my good self? I have no idea what you're going to say. Indeed not. Prepare, yes, yes, get out sandbags, both of you. What I'm going to say is I think that you are more right than Lewis. Lois, indeed.

I'm even mispronouncing your name, probably speaking through a soundbag. The great problem is that Nigel has not got firm and clear policy commitments. In other words, what you saw with the case you've absolutely cited, the direct parallel case, Kemi Berdenok understood what Nick Timothy was saying and why he was saying it. And she regarded that as being more important than any, oh, this is racist, oh, this is monstrous, whatever. I don't think Nigel puts policy first yet. And this is my profound doubt, as everybody knows, Lois knows personally. I am profoundly sympathetic to what Nigel is trying to do.

what reform is trying to do. I strongly backed him indeed back in the spring of 2024. I think I was one of those when I met him in March, in Palm Beach, actually encouraged him to stand at a moment when he was most doubtful about it. Wow, okay, I didn't know that. No, no, no, no, but why should you? But the essential point is until reform is clear about actual policy, policies, and what matters and what doesn't, it will always be subject to these waves of, you know,

people coming up and say, oh, you're being nasty to victims and whatever. And again, I think there's an even bigger point. We've got into a habit of victim worship. What happened at Grenfell was horrible and disgraceful, but it does not detract from the fact that we have had gross mismanagement of building, of building regulations, of rules, and so on. And we've again, look at the disaster of the COVID inquiry, which begins with the victims,

rather than looking at what the important questions are. And we've, look, every, the key thing about a reform government, it is going to have to do huge numbers of deeply unpopular things that will tread on the toes of Starmer. will tread on the stoves of Saddik Khan, will tread on the toes of all the multitude of the forces of the online left of Muslimism and everything else. In other words, to be blunt, Nigel is going to have to grow a pair. Otherwise, it will be deadly.

Now, the counter-argument is always got to get elected first. But the problem is you can't suddenly switch from, oh, I've got elected by not-acted, actually offending anybody. Remember, that was the Ming VAR strategy of this current Labour government. And it's a catastrophe because it means, as you said, Dan, that you are constantly seen a little bit of pressure you'll give way. Yeah, and he gives away. And Dr. Stake, just before I'll bring Lois back in to respond,

lots of people will be interested about your view of Restore Britain. You conducted a really interesting interview with Rupert Lowe on your Dr. Starkey Talks channel on YouTube, which I do... David Starkey Talks channel. I don't trail my doctor at everything. Which I do recommend people watch because you do put Rupert through it

and you challenge him on quite a few issues. But of course, when Restore was a movement, you were actually an official advisor. You were part of that movement. So I'm just wondering where things stand now that Restore Britain is a party. Do you back the party? or have you not made your decision or have you backed away?

I do not back the party. I made entirely clear to Rupert, of course, that I can't. I remain a member of the Conservative Party. But I remain friendly. I like Rupert as an individual. I like Nigel. I'm terribly promiscuous in all of these things. What I am desperate, I like everybody on the right.

Well, there are one or two I don't like Paul Jeremy Hunt. He's not on the right. He's not on the right. Exactly. Well, the nominal right. What I'm trying to get us all to understand is we are going to have to have at some point, and the sooner the better, a united front of the right. Otherwise, we will lose the next election. We will have, I'm afraid, the UJ of Lewis's UJ. We will have the dreadful Polanski as either prime minister or deputy prime minister.

And this is something too awful to contemplate. So we've got to pull ourselves together, my own view of Rupert, I am very doubtful of the wisdom of creating yet another political party. I'm deeply doubtful of the existence, although again, I'm very fond of Ben Habib, the constant fragmentation. We on the right now are replicating, as we get more ideological, we're replicating the worst features of the left. You remember the great joke, you know, the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front. And we are fragmenting in the same kind of way, and it's very dangerous. But the way that we've got to unite is, again, going back to the remark I'm making about Nigel. We have to be clear on what the principles, what the basis on which we will govern, what we need to do to turn around, the clear commitment to putting the idea of the nation and the people of the nation first, the clear idea of equality under the law,

the clear separation between law and government. So much of what's gone wrong, and Grenfell is another example, it is quasi-legal measures, bodies enforcing over-complex regulation with neo-judicial powers that stop government actually working. But it's the commitment to principle, and we're not constantly battered by, oh, he's being cruel, there's a victim group, whatever. You've got firm rock to spam. Yeah, and these are all people who are out there, Lois,

to keep Nigel from power. And I sometimes just wish that he was a bit more Trump-like in his approach. But Lois... Hang on a minute. Hang on. You can't have it both ways, Dan. Okay, well you respond.

He said he was a dictatorial, Nigel Fras. And then you want it... And that's terrible, and that's a terrible thing. And now he needs to be more Trump-like. Come on. Which one is it? Well, look, all. I would say, Lewis, is that actually we were pretty united at the last election. I mean,

look at the people who David is talking about, Ben Habib, Rupert Lowe. They were part of Reform UK at the last election. I voted for Reform UK at the last election. Since then, Nigel has made it clear that a whole load of us are to use Hillary Clinton's terms in that basket of deplorables. And he wants nothing to do with us. Now, that I think is a problem. That's not true at all. Both Ben Habib and Rupert Lowe have personal reasons for not, they're just the anti-Nidal people. They would rather have Labour in power, well not, maybe not Ben-Habed, but certainly Rupert Lowe, would much rather have Labour empowered than see Nigel Farage in Downing Street. And it's just as disruptive as the group.

I actually believe that Rupert Lowe and Restore want the Unipati system to continue and they're actually really Tories and they don't want just want to do whatever they possibly can to keep Nigel out of Downing Street. I think it's personal. I don't think, if they really truly believed about the saving the United Kingdom, they would have thrown their support and loyalty behind Nigel and not started these splinter groups and splinter parties. And I respect Dr. Starkey's promiscuity. I'm sure you do. Look, I get what you're saying completely.

But anyone who's serious, serious about keeping the Labour Party out with the Tories having collapsed in the way they have, needs to throw their weight behind reform. And both Ben and Rupert have a personal vendetta against Nigel. That's what I think. Now, the Artemis Rocket Law, was considered a huge moment for sly news, the left-wing 24-hour broadcaster here in the United Kingdom. Indeed, do you know they actually went wall to wall with coverage of the launch from 5pm?

Huge budget thrown into this correspondence out in Florida. But then, the wokeery of the people on screen, I think wonderfully undermined. all of it, because one 16-second clip, which I pointed out watching live last night, has now gone viral all across the internet because it showed that even an event like Artemis, which by the way, even the black astronaut on board has said is nothing to do with race or color. It's all to do with humanity, for some reason, the sly news science correspondent Thomas Moore decided to bring back to his anti-white rhetoric. Watch. They are going for all humanity this time, you know. Apollo was all white men, and this time it's not. And I think that really speaks volumes for the journey

that NASA has been on. And this is a much more representative crew. And you can feel emotional about that. I mean, seriously, everything now, everything now is brought back to race because that wasn't the only example today. A host, a star host of Talk Sport, decided to take massive issue with a picture posted of Carol Kirkwood, the veteran BBC breakfast weather woman who was leaving the corporation because the staff that surrounded her happened to be predominantly white. Last time I checked we were a predominantly white country. But this is what Hugh Wuzoncroft said. I wonder how he got his job. Not to distract from Carol being an absolute star because she is, but while you have detracted,

can I just say, Hugh, that is a very, very striking image of a production that's meant to represent the entire country. Kudos to the Conservative MP, Dr. Luke Evans, who responded bluntly, what is your point here? do you know each person's disability, their sexuality, their responsibilities for children or caring, their educational background, their heritage, their political belief, their religious belief? Or are you simply looking at the colour of their skin? And we know that they are. And Dr David Stalky, when I see this type of coverage on sly news or from the talk sport presenter bringing everything back to race,

I just think no wonder people are giving up on the mainstream media. Yes, and interestingly enough, there is a direct connection between this and the, what I think will be the coming item on the Clapham Riots. The real background of the Clapham Riots is exactly this approach, but in reverse. It's the argument that because things like stop and search, criminal justice, blacks are overrepresented, therefore we must pull back. Therefore, we must not visit the usual machinery of justice. The idea that everything has got to be a matter of simple, straightforward, arithmetical equality is damning. It is absolutely damning.

Can I just show you one other piece of evidence on that, David? Because look at this. So the Daily Mail runs a headline about the Clapham riots, and they pixelate every black person. on the scene, but you can see there, see at the bottom left, the white girl is left un-pixelated. I mean, that's bizarre. But it was exactly the same in the 2011 riots.

Was it Beth Rigby? I can't remember. There was that extraordinary moment when somebody was reporting from, again, it was in Croydon, surrounded by burning buildings and the black mob, and he said, you know, there are these people, the black people rampaging and the void. And again, it was sky. It came back.

Are you sure they're all black? Isn't there somebody white there? I mean, it's a complete lunacy which insists that, as it were, if there's a riot, there must be exactly the right proportion. It is impossible that there be, because roughly the percent of the population is black and I think 11 in London, that if you have more than 5 or more than 11% there, something clearly has gone wrong.

And if it's virtually 100% as there, deeply problematic. But it is, it's a, it is a, it can be funny in one sense. I mean, you're able to send it up. But it is, and remember, it's an obsession, which is purely one way. It is purely, as it were, a particular kind of liberal white applying this judgment.

I mean, if blacks do it, it's completely different. And I think, again, one of the things that's happened, and it was very remarkable, and I know I'm leaping forward now to the riots, but I think it's important that we do so. No, let's talk about it. It's important. Thank you. that one of the points that was actually made very specifically was there's a fundamental criminological problem.

And it's also directly imported from America. You will have seen huge numbers of cases in America about shocking repeat criminals, black, all of them being discharged back into society because we can't have distorted statistics which say there are too many blacks in jail. We have another terrible inquiry going on at the moment, the Nottingham inquiry, the Calo Caney inquiry. And the thing, again, it is, why was Calocani not sectioned? Because too many black people were sectioned.

This was actually a fundamental part of the debate of the police and of the probation service and indeed, even more shockingly, of the psychiatrists responsible for deciding whether or not to protect the public, he needed to be in protective custody. And the fact that blacks are overrepresented, known significant problems of psychological disturbance, was allowed to affect the decision and three people died as a result of it. So we can make the jokes about, we can make all the jokes about Sky News. But there's a fundamental and profound danger. And again, going back back in our discussion, to the sort of things that reform that we on the right need to be nailing our colours to the mast on.

It is equality before the law, that absolutely straightforward thing because our criminal justice. And Giuliani was absolutely right when you said there was two-tier criminal justice. It is deliberately part of human rights law. It's deliberate inclination to the minority is against the majority. And it's got to stop. We're in a terrible and terribly dangerous path. Yeah, I mean, we are. We are.

And Lois, this is a thing. I mean, of course, yes, I am making light of sly news and the ludicrous talk sport guy. but actually what Dr. Starkey says is completely true. I mean, it's totally indicative of why we continue to be a society in decline. Like it is actually super serious. Can I just say, actually, I mean, number one, I agree with what Dr. Starkey said with regards to justice. There's a reason why justice is always represented with a blindfold, because justice is supposed to be, supposed to be blind.

But what I will say, so my family. my mom remarried and my stepfather is black, my sister's a mixed race. My stepfather feels that this massive overrepresentation of black people in advertising has caused resentment and has caused racism. He has experienced it for the first time. He said in 30 years he is experiencing racism on the street. He thinks, you know, he speculates, is this deliberate? because he can't understand why it's causing deliberate discord. And also the small boats, the small boats allowing people in with no paperwork and everything

from countries that are obviously not westernized, not westernized countries. That's causing racism to indigenous black people as well. He has said that he feels that this diversity, that is working against black people and he's very angry about it and actually very, very sad, very sad about it. Yeah, no indeed. I think, Dan, there's another thing,

which again, I'd be very interested in the generation of the gentleman that Lewis is talking about. One of the things that's gone disastrously wrong in Britain is, again, one of the comments, actually it was a commentator and the spectator who lives in Clapham, works actually at the Prosperity Institute, a man called Graham, that's his surname, writing on the riots. He began by saying that West Indians are amongst the most integrated people in Britain,

integrated immigrant groups. But I think he's there making a very dangerous illusion. I think there's been a major change in the younger generation of blacks. What they've done increasingly is to identify with America and with the American inheritance. Hence, the whole business of the call for reparations for slavery, the whole way they dress, the whole way they talk, the standard deportment. I mean, those scenes in Clapper, think about it, they look exactly like a slightly less violent version of what we see in America. time there's a race riot. It's deliberately modeled behavior. You see it online all the time. And it's something that's gone really very badly wrong in exactly the same way. I think that

rather than integrating, many of the younger generation of Muslims have chosen to be much more different. There have been some very interesting photographs of generations of particular families, looking, for example, at Mavin Ali's parents, his father, dressed in. in a perfectly normal suit and clean shave, as opposed to the fuzzy wuzzy beard and looking as though you're in Mogad, you know, wearing whatever, it's not Dada, whatever it's called,

and looking as though you're in Mogadishu. So, and I think something very similar and very, very regrettable has affected a large part of particularly the urban West Indian, the urban British black community. And it's again something that are Our terror about actually talking about race properly, our desire to pretend everybody's just the same and we're all, you know, just absolutely typical British and whatever, this nonsense term. It means that we haven't kept proper track of these things.

And as Lewis said, it's not simply the broader society that suffers. Immigrant groups themselves are suffering. It's been shockingly, shockingly mismanaged. Breaking right now, Donald Trump has just sacked the US Attorney General Pam Bondi. We are hearing that he met with his AG, who of course has been under fire as a result of her handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files before his speech to Congress last night and she was already on the plane back to Florida. I mean, Dr. Stakey, this does show you, doesn't it? Trump is clearing things out at the moment. And I do think she really mishandled the Epstein files.

It was a bad moment for the Trump administration. Hang on. So he's allowed to do a clear out, Dan, yeah? Well, look, she's been in the job. She has been in the job. But the point is... It's all right. But the point is Trump does stand by his people

until he wants them gone. He doesn't give in to mainstream media, is my point. But what do you guys make of it? I think that if you actually look at the disappearance of the Secretary of Homeland Security, that's not true. I mean, clearly, he's got a very shrewd ear for what is going on and an idea just how far he can push things.

I would have thought that there are a whole series of problems, aren't there, that he's dealing with. There's the Epstein files. there's this enormously difficult and controversial case on citizenship before the Supreme Court, where again, it's clear that the Justice Department hasn't performed as effectively as it should have done and so on. But always remember, and dear me, you are wise enough to know it, that Trump rules by deliberate disruption, by deliberate disruption. Now, I am hoping, just coming back to Lois' lovely counterpoint to you, Nigel has been a great disruptor.

If you were to be a British Prime Minister, you can't be a disruptor. Listrust tried it, and it was a disaster. We need a different model. Again, one of the things that we on the British right have got to do is to, it's not that we renounce America. I mean, I shared all that you were saying about 1776, the lessons that Britain learned from the disaster of the American War of Independence, the transformation in how Canada, Australia, your own country of New Zealand were all handled. All very good. But what we've got to learn to do on the right is to recognize that although Trump and what's gone on between Trump 1 and Trump 2 is enormously valuable, our countries are very, different. We must stop

imitative behavior. Good point. Very good point. Now, the way that the BBC or the British bashing corporation, as I call it, has dealt with the Scott Mills scandal this week, has very much divided the right. And I completely understand why.

And for once, I sort of see both sides of this argument, maybe because of my own personal experience with cancellation. But on the one hand, you can look at this and think well, Scott Mills is being completely cancelled, completely destroyed, despite the CPS not going through with charges. So effectively, in the eyes of the law, he is innocent. At the same time,

I am the first. And one of the few people who constantly talk about the paedophilic nature of the BBC and the fact that this is an organisation that has harboured everyone from Jimmy Saville to Hugh Edwards and actually for a very long time has survived as an organisation in a way that it would not if it was a private entity. But what has really interested me is that Katie Hopkins, certainly not a defender of the BBC, has now weighed in and said that she believes the treatment of Scott Mills is unfair and that the BBC are treating him more harshly because of how they mishandled the Hugh Edwards' debacle. Watch. Things about Scott Mills firing.

They involve stickiness, sensitivity and sins of the fathers, which aren't words I want to think about when I'm thinking about Hugh Edwards. But there are real differences, I think, between the treatment of Hugh Edwards and Scott Mills. And I'm not in any way drawing a parallel between those two individuals, than them being fired from the BBC. The first thing is that Hugh Edwards seemed very protected. It was almost like no one could touch him. He wasn't untouchable. So he was able to hang on in there forever. No one was really talking about what went on. No one could discuss it. Certainly didn't go to the papers. And there was this real sense that she would be looked after. And then all of the

friends came out, Emily Maitliss and all the rest saying, oh, can he rebuild after this? Can he come back? Will he be okay? There's a real difference between that. and how Scott has been absolutely thrown to the wolves. And what did get me thinking is that Katie Hopkins raised the case of Steve Wright, the late Steve Wright, who you remember, the BBC ironically sacked, and a lot of people close to Steve Wright blame that decision for his untimely death, and they sacked him in order to give Scott Mills a job. Watch.

The way that Scott Mills now has just been allowed to be slaughtered. It's almost like he just got thrown out and the BBC said, well, as long as we save ourselves, slaughter him. Like the man that got thrown overboard so other people in the lifeboat could live. Like he's just literally being thrown out to be slaughtered so the BBC can save themselves. And again, I don't think that's got anything to do with Scott Mills. That's got to do with Jimmy Saville.

That's got to do with Hugh Edwards. That's got to do with every other BBC scandal ever. I feel like Scott Mills is paying the price for the sins of the fathers that went before him because the BBC is so desperate to maintain its ability to function. They're willing to slaughter people in order to save themselves. And I can't help but feel that that's Scott. And then finally, just at a kind of personal level,

not that I know the guy. But how does anyone think one person can withstand this? He isn't a Hugh Edwards that's being protected. Oh, mental illness. Oh, here's his wife. Oh, here's a picture of his wife looking sad. Oh, here's Emily MacLess defending him. Oh, here's all the good people saying how great a guy Hugh Edward is.

He's not that guy. He's not an establishment guy in that sense. I mean, you saw what happened to Steve Wright. Steve Wright was effectively killed when his radio show was taken from him because he had no purpose in his life. And then she did just come out and say it. She feels like the BBC is driving Scott Mills towards suicide. And I just don't know how Scott is supposed to endure all this.

Like, you push a man until he swings from a tree. It's just, I guess, as a human being, watching the pylon and knowing a little tiny bit what it feels like. I just, I don't know. If I was his friend, I think I'd want to put him in a suitcase, put him on a plane, just take him away to the other side of the world where he can't hear all of this stuff. And don't come back until it's over. Either way, I'm not sure how much all of this has got to do with Scott Mell's.

It seems to me like it has much more to do with the BBC that knows it's dying. or knows it's dead already and is prepared to eke out a few more years of life by putting the noose around someone else's neck and standing on their head. It's certainly thought-provoking Lois Perry and Dr David Starkey with me now. David, you belong a star of the BBC. How do you feel about the treatment of Scott Mills, the outgoing Director General Tim Davy has said today there was just no choice when they saw the new evidence.

But of course, we don't know what that evidence is. I think, again, Katie is presenting it as a peculiar spasm of the BBC, but it's not, is it? I mean, look earlier in this programme. How did Nigel deal with Dudley? He just got rid of him. Again, look at Andrew, whatever one. thinks of Andrew, whatever one thinks of the evidence, he's been found guilty of absolutely nothing.

The old rule, which you actually mentioned at one point of the fact that you are innocent until you're found guilty has been largely thrown away. We've decided we have a new phrase. We conduct a trial in this thing called the Court of Public Opinion. I know, you know. We were both the tims of it. And again, I slightly, Katie was rather moving there, the fact that she was much less ranted than she normally is. No, no, no. I mean, if she'd been an actress, I'd have given her an Oscar.

It was an... No, and she means that because she has a visceral understanding of what it means to be destroyed and cancelled. She has been through it too, as you and I have been through it. But it is simply now pretty much a universal reaction. The thing that's remarkable about the BBC is the extent to which they've tried, very clumsily and whatever, to follow proper procedure. And of course, they've found themselves receiving tongue lashings from everybody for doing that.

So in one sense, it's not very surprising. They're cutting their losses. the cruelty to the individual, the risk to the individual, which Katie highlights, is something, of course, these organizations, to coin a phrase, do not give a fuck about. They don't. They don't. And they really do not. I mean, I remember vividly in my own case, organizations that I'd worked for for 20 years give you less than five minutes to get out. Literally, literally, with total indifference.

And we have got ourselves with this whole process of cancellation. It is, remember, it's because of a false, these are false moralities. But you know, we are actually only behaving in the same way as the Puritans of New England and whatever. These are witch trials. And again, there are a particular moments. I think one of the reasons also why there's a particular oddity about this case. I mean, and I don't want now to sound as wrong-footed and unsympathetic as it is actually Lord Dudley, isn't it, as Dudley. But isn't it really that being a disc jockey?

is an infinitely trivial kind of activity. I mean, but you know, the fight that we're talking about suicide, life change, whatever, when all you're doing is playing a bit of rubbish. But he's no nothing else. And the reality is, David, how on earth will he get another job? Now, who on earth is going to give this guy a job? And that's the problem. You go through that and, you know, you've been there, I've been there, and that's what you think about.

Won't he have been paid? I won't he, unless he's been unbelievably extravagant, he has been paid about £300,000 a year. Yeah, and he's got a 160k a year pension. So I don't think this is about money. I think we're not. Our tears are not. No.

No, this is not about money. But it's interesting to us because for me, this is always about the cover-up, right? Because when I went through my cancellation, or David went through his cancellation, it all played out publicly. And trust me, the left-wing organisations, including the BBC, wanted to see

us destroyed. But the problem with Andrew Mountbatten Windsor and with Scott Mills is that there has been a degree of a cover-up. Like, this is why I'm so torn on this. Why did all of this happen with Mills back in 2017 and the BBC executives knew about it, yet he was never suspended? And I've spoken to friends of Kay Adams this week. You know, Kay Adams used to be a BBC Scotland presenter, but she's also a loose women post and she was suspended by the BBC over claims that 14 years ago she used the C word. Okay, so she was suspended and she's actually since been sacked. And I do just wonder how that works. Like so Kay Adams is suspended. Who toes are she trodden on? Well, exactly. Exactly. But but she's suspended for that. Scott Mills, there is an allegation of sexual assault against someone.

who is under 16, so a boy, and he isn't suspended. But weirdly, then I also come to the fact that I don't just think we should suspend everyone as soon as an allegation is made because trust me, false allegations are made. No, I agree, absolutely. And I think, you know, what Katie Hopkins said was right. He is paying for the sins of the fathers, the Hugh Edwards, the Jimmy Savils. And so the problem that you've got with the whole, oh, there was no criminal offence or there wasn't found to be enough evidence thing is that actually that was the case with Jimmy Saville as well. Yet everybody knew, yet for reasons which nobody knows, probably to do these extraordinary connections and the fact that he had dirt on extremely senior people, there were never any criminal prosecutions or anything like that or even any actual charges.

So, yeah, I get it completely what you're saying, Dan. On the one hand, cover-ups multiple allegations, that's horrific. But then on the other hand, we're cancelling people and throwing them under the bus. And whatever we think about the triviality of somebody's position, it's obviously important to them, without there being actual criminal prosecutions or being found guilty in a court of law. I know. It's so difficult.

It's a moral thing. It's a mess. It's a mess. It really is. It really is. Look, don't go anywhere because we're about to reveal today's Greatest Britain and Union Jackass, UJ, as David Starkey puts. But I just want to get to a bit of feedback first because we've had loads coming in today. Shirley McCahn says, with regards to the Clapham Rights, it took me back to 2011 when we had those rights. My perspective is that kids these days are lost, no future and no police on the street. London needs an overhaul.

Mitch 1971 says Charles, King Charles is an embarrassment like Starm, Mandy, Kumas says that is an absolute disgrace. The king won't do an Easter message. He has Muslims in Windsor Castle en masse and Westminster for the end of Eid. Rebecca Hicks says Farage and her nickname for Farage is fragile, is a snake. Roxanna says people will see what reform are in time takes some longer than others. And Robert Bowie says the problem I have with reform is people like Lois justifying and downplaying every shit thing Farage does. And thank you very much for Wota, for the super chat, who says we cannot wait for politicians to save us. And eye on anti-Semitism, who says the government must recall the Pakistani ambassador regarding the terror attack.

Because as we reported on yesterday's show, a Pakistani national of 17 years old, now one of those arrested over that terror attack in Golders Green. Okay, a reminder of the Union Jackass nominees. I went for Thomas Moore of Sly News for making the Artemis. launch all about white men, terrible white men in the past. Lois went for Zach Polanski for that terrible display on stage over the weekend at the March against Far Right. And David Starkey went for Jeremy Hunt because he is not at all conservative. Okay, the results are in, oh my goodness, I've lost today. I've lost badly. Just 5% of you going for Thomas Moore. But actually, David, David's lost badly, too.

13% going for Jeremy Hunt. But this is an overwhelming win for Lois Perry. 82% agreeing that Zach Polanski is today's union jackass. And David Stucky, I would like you please to reveal today's greatest Britain. No, my greatest Britain is a man, and I'm now even going to forget, he's called Christopher. Chris Rockus. Chris Rockus. He is somebody that until last week I had not heard of.

He is a hugely successful hedge fund, a vast, in other words, a billionaire. And the reason that he's in the news is given this enormous donation of about 190 million, which will have further matching funding to my own University of Cambridge to found an institute of government. Now, that's all very interesting. But the reason I've nominated him, and it comes into the heart of what, you're about on this show, Dan. He is saying, I am a centrist liberal, but I don't want the institute to be filled just with centrist liberals like me. I want there to be a genuine range of opinion. And this is a kind of breakthrough moment. It's the kind of thing that,

you know, if we wish for the, there's that wonderful phrase, the conversion of the Jews, if we wish for an equivalent moment, can you imagine Rory Stewart saying, I don't, one of a world in which not everybody is a poncing, lisping, centrist dad. Excellent choice. I love it. I love you both. Lois Perry is the UK and Europe director of the Heartland Institute. You can, of course, follow her on X.

Dr. David Starkey, also on X. But I really do recommend his brilliant YouTube channel, David Starkey Talks, which you must subscribe to today, because this is the new. independent media. Thank you both so much and have a wonderful Easter. But guess what? We are here tomorrow for Good Friday and we've got our lineup of priests. Do you remember we had them all on Christmas Day? It was so excellent. We've decided to do it again tomorrow. So with me, Father Calvin Robinson, Minister Ricky Doolin, Bishop Karen H. Dewa and Father Phil Harris. We have a special Good Friday edition of the show. We'll cover all of the new.

so make sure you are with us at 5pm tomorrow. We're not done today, though. Lady Colin Campbell is standing by. I cannot wait for the Royal Uncanceled Aftershow today. You can come and join us for all of the Royal News at www. at outspoken.org. Please do hit subscribe. If you were watching on YouTube,

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