Dan Wootton Outspoken - MASS DEPORTATION DEBATE EXPLODES OVER PLAN FOR UK ICE AS LEFTIES LOSE IT IN DAN WOOTTON CLASH

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

The Clash returns as Dan and conservative social media sensation Based and Bougie go head to head with ex-Labour adviser James Matthewson and Muslim activist Fahima Mahomed to debate whether immigration is destroying Britain. To watch the Uncancelled After Show for exclusive extra content EVERY weekday, sign up at: https://www.outspoken.live LIKE & SUBSCRIBE for new videos every day: https://youtube.com/@danwoottonoutspoken?si=-2BhmEbBSN1fyESS?sub_confirmation=1 ---------- Find the full audio show wherever you get your podcasts: Apple — https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dan-wootton-outspoken/id1762436723 Spotify — https://open.spotify.com/show/19Ltoneek2MSPL10CpSA1J?si=8f6d84e2db56448c ---------- Follow Dan on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@outspokendan Follow Dan on Twitter: https://x.com/danwootton Follow Dan on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/danwootton/ Follow Dan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danwootton/?hl=en #DanWootton #DanWoottonOutspoken #news #outspoken #uknews Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In communities across Canada, hourly Amazon employees can grow their skills and their paycheck by enrolling in free skills training programs for in-demand fields. Learn more at aboutamazon.ca. No spin, no bias, no censorship. I'm Dan Wooden. This is a special edition of Outspoken. You probably know by now one of my favorite features on my old GB News show was The Clash. So we are bringing it back for a special week debating. the biggest issues in the world.

Today is immigration destroying Britain. Joining me to clash it out is the conservative YouTube sensation based and boozy, the broadcaster and author James Matthewson, and the broadcaster and commentator for Hima Muhammad. So because of this special debate today, there will be no Greatest Britain or Union Jackass, but the Royal Uncanceled After Show continues as normal over on Substack at www. Outspoken.

So please join the fun on Substack after the main show. But now, let's go. So should Britain bring in ice-style immigration enforcement? I think it's a really sensible idea. I think it's going to need to happen after the next election, because otherwise nothing will change. Let's clash it out now as we bring in conservative YouTube sensation based and boozy, the broadcaster and author James Mathewson and the broadcaster and commentator for Himad Muhammad.

Forima, first to you, why don't you think the UK should go down an ice-style deportation path? I think Britain should not import an ice-style model because we already have immigration, enforcement powers, detention and removals. The issue is effectiveness and safeguards, not theatrics. And when you look at ICE, the headline tactics come with serious costs like aggressive raids, community fear, lower cooperation with police and repeated oversight finding about detention standards and accountability. Even the US Government Accountability Office has criticised DHS ICE inspection systems for lacking clear goals and measures of effectiveness. In Britain, the legal culture is difficult. We run on proportionality, due process and equality duties.

And we've already lived through the consequences of hostile environment, overreach in wind rush. So my stance is enforce the law firmly against traffickers, exporters and serious offenders. Okay, you minutes up. Basin Bougie. Why is she wrong? Well, I definitely think that we should definitely bring an ICE style enforcement to the UK. And I think we should even take it a step further, not just removing people who are illegal, but also removing people who are hostile to the UK and people who sit on people's channels

and say, what is English culture? What does England even look like? I'm so sick and tired of this. I'm so sick and tired of the UK just being this charity case for the rest of the world when these people, they actually have neighbouring countries that can support them. And essentially, who gets affected by this is the British public.

People like myself, people like YouTube, people like Dan. This impacts us financially, this impacts us economically, socially, culturally in every way. So yes, we need to bring in ice, sorry, style enforcement. James Matthewson, are you pro a British-style ICE immigration force? No, because I'm not a monster and I'm not an idiot. And you'd either have to be one or the other, I'm afraid. Now, you can label yourselves accordingly. I'm not doing it for you. But listen, you're either stupid or you're inherently evil if you think one of those things works. Because we talk about British values, right? We talk about the values that we have

in this country. You are trading all of them by doing something like this. Look what America has done. It has lost its soul. It has lost its way by treating people the way that they are treating them. Because the environment that's hostile, I know people in California right now. You know what they're parents, right? You know their parents who've worked in America for 35 years? And you know what they're doing right now? They're going to work and they're going home. They can't even go at the shops. Their family are taking them shopping. They're doing that because they are so scared to leave the house. And by the way, that's the intended. That is the intended effect. And it is trying to do that. And listen, if we're going to deport people, if we're going to ask where do we draw the

line, then, you know, we have to ask what this is about. And ultimately, I do believe that it's about skin color. It's about appearance and it's about ethnicity. So bored of this. Oh, James, again, I have to apologize. You wound me up so much. I interrupted, but I guess seeing you called me evil and stupid and I said you could pick which one you were. Stupid or evil. I won't apologize. I won't apologize too hard. Look, James, that's bullshit the picture that you're painting from America.

They're just people who have got so much TDS. They're probably still sitting in their basement in a COVID mask. Like, seriously, America has so much respect internationally and is absolutely far safer since Donald Trump was able to control the US. Are you joking? Are you joking? Have you not seen? Oh my God. Have you not seen how many people have just killed, you know, because of the gun sort of, you know, problems and how he's, you know, wanting to invest in wars abroad, but his own countries economically damage. People don't have the kind of economics. They don't have anything. You guys are just fan people. But at the end,

we're talking about ice. We're talking about us. I'm actually not talking about as foreign policy. I don't even want to get into that because that is irrelevant. What I'm talking about is the fact that he coming in from Mexico. Plus, they also, ICE is there because they can actually have an agreement with a border which they actually can actually put people back. We don't have the same

system. The UK model here, you know, is policing by consent. Like I said, unfortunately, it's not working. And even still, the US model is a federal immigration agency which they have also been protesting for thousands of people on the streets across the states against it.

Even still, what FEMA said right or even still then, right? To look at America and think that that's aspirational, right? When you see, because whatever happened to you, Libertarians, Dan, whatever happened to you, don't tread on me. I don't want a government, you know, taking control. But you've got masked agents who do not have to reveal their identity, operating purely for the direction of the executive branch of the government, right?

They are a private police force. They operate for them, then. They have more funding than the data military. They have more funding than the Danish military overall, right? They are a huge organisation. They're recruiting thugs and people who need an upfront payment of 15 grand, people in desperate situations, right? And what they're then doing is they're deploying them to communities

that voted against Donald Trump. That's the key thing here. They're not in Republican areas. They're putting them in demographic areas, and they're using them, the terrorized communities. And the result of that, too, at least. I'll tell you what is terrorizing communities, Jay. The rapists, the murderers, the drug dealers, the sex traffickers that were flowing in via that border every single day.

Donald Trump has shut it down overnight and he had done that with eyes. And we are too gutless and weak in this country to do it. Sleeply stammers allowing the invasion to continue every day. And people are dying. And you guys just want people to keep dying. I just think if you don't want your community to be terrorized, follow the law and come in legally. it's as simple as ABC 1, 2, 3.

Come in legally, why skip the queue? Follow the instructions, follow the law and come in legally and you won't have to fear anyone knocking on your door and dragging you out. I have a question for you. Would you allow a stranger to come and live in your home? For Hema or James? Both of them actually.

Would you guys allow strangers to come live in your home? That's not appropriate. Would you allow strangers to come live in your home? I'm sorry. It's so stupid. Would you? Would you allow strangers to come? Why are you refusing to answer the question for Hema?

For Hema, would you allow strangers to come and live in your home? Yes or no? Well, they did for Ukraine. Would you allow strangers to come and live in your home? Yes or no. Just to matter what I think. Just yes or no. This is the her prophecy.

Why would you answer the question? It's one rule for them. It's one rule for them and it's a different rule for everyone. I will answer it. I'll answer it. I'll answer it. No, I will not have a stranger in my home. I will not put my family at risk.

James, why can't you answer that question? Because the country is a home. I live in a one-bedroom. This country is our home. This country is a home. A nation state, yeah. Yeah, but what you're doing is you simplify. And this is what you people are always, you simplify.

And it's the same with the law thing. It's a really clever argument based, right? So this country is not your home. That makes sense to why you share those views. It makes sense to why you have these very host. views towards the UK because you don't consider it your home it is it is my home it's not my house that's what I'm saying that and that's the same will be in the home which is the UK your house is in the UK so that makes the UK pretty much a home to let's abandon you very clever metaphor for a

moment if we can and let's just imagine if we can that the simplicity of your argument about the law right because people listen to it and they go okay yeah yeah you should abide by the law I'm a law abiding person I'm a law abiding person you should have by that's very sensible, right? The law is not a metric for what is right and wrong. Laws change. Anybody can change a law like that if they're in power, right? That's the problem. Everything that

was done to the Jews and Nazi Germany, legal. Why are we talking about the Jews and Nazi Germany? Just don't come into a country illegally. Why are you guys making this historical argument? Just don't come into a country illegally. My dad, for example, he followed the proper procedures. He even waited

four years. He even waited four years. Why skip the Q? I mean, James, James, I think we've really got to deal with that. James, just before you move on from that, James, I think it's a pretty bad faith thing that you have just done to invoke Nazi Germany. When what we are talking about is banning illegal immigration to our country, stopping rapists, terrorists, child sex traffickers entering our country. And why are you comparing that to Nazi Germany? What does that have to do? Because you're talking about whether we should have to start, because the question.

that you're asking is whether we should establish a secret police force for it works for politicians that then arrests anybody that they want arrested and deport them right but illegally people who are here illegally if you've got it illegally you've committed a crime a crime means there should be consequences of the example of Nazi Germany why then did you think I brought that because I think you want anyone who is making this argument to be derided as some type of neo-Nazi because what it does is it terrifies people into expressing what they really think about this. And I think it's a really twisted argument.

I said people are terrified with ice anyway. They walk around with their cause on their forehead. And at the same time, we've got so many Americans, you know, if you look at the latest figures, there are so many Americans that are actually now immigrating to the UK because they do not, you know, approve even the Trump's so-called Trump supporters are now coming. Well, outside of Alan Degeneres and Portia de Rossi have already gone back. I'd love to see the evidence of that. They're detaining based on cultural.

I can't believe we're having. That detain is based on cultural identity. And Dan and base, you'd have to both ask yourselves. Dan, you're Australian, am I'm not? No, I'm not. New Zealand. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

No, no, I'm not. Let me be very clear because you've brought my ethnicity into this. So let me be very clear. I am totally English. I am as English as you, James. I was born in New Zealand. My dad. was born on a British Army base in Malta. My mom was born in Essex. Every single piece of my blood

in my body pumps white English. And the point being and why this matters, James, is that it doesn't actually matter where you happen to be born when you're talking about ethnicity. Just like if I had been born in Japan, I wouldn't be Japanese. And just like if I had been born in Nigeria, I wouldn't be Nigerian. I am English. I happen to be born in New Zealand. but I am English. If you are a British citizen, then you do have that right as a British citizen, regardless of background, regardless of ethnicity,

regardless of being white is what, you know, people in certain parties are trying to claim. So the law right now is nothing to do with ethnicity or background. And that's what they want to make it. If I'm like myself is not British, I would not classify myself as English. I know it's an ethnicity, but I will definitely say I'm a British,

because of the British citizenship. I do work, I pay taxes, I've been here for many years, and I do actually abide by the law of this country. I do respect, I do integrate. It's not just about integration as in, you know, having the same thoughts. We all can have different thoughts. We don't have to be a clone of each other. That's the whole point, okay?

But the same thing is when you talk about integration, what does that even mean? I'm integrated only because I am brown and because I am visibly Muslim, most people won't even think that I can even speak English. That's the point that we're trying to make. That's the point that we're trying to make is that if you have come here legally and you have integrated and you do consider yourself to be British and you allow yourself to, you know, integrate into British culture,

that's not the problem. The problem is people who come here illegally. That's the problem. People who come here illegally, we should focus on that first. And second, like I said, we can take it a step further and we should remove anyone who is hostile to British culture. But he must, she's not. Well, sometimes you do some hostility. British culture, but you've just said that.

You were. Okay, okay, hold up. Hold up, hold up, hold up late James coming. I just have to say at that point, I am sorry. That's fascist based. What is fascist? What's fascist? What part is fascist? You've just said you want to take it a step further

and detain people to say. No, remove people who are hostile to British culture, whether that's hostile to Christianity. Is that mean? Hostile to the flag. Hostile to the culture. They should go live in the country that they love. They should go live in the country that they love

and they should leave the country that they hate. That's what I mean. We love this country, but we also just have a different viewpoint. And I'm not saying that you need to be deported. I never said that. I said there's the people who bash the flag, who people who bash Christianity. People bashing flies only because,

not because they don't like the flag. Did you say me? Let me make this clear. People are not against the British flag. It's because people are tired of waving the British flag. I was a time for waving the British flag. I was a time for waving the British flag. I was attacked. I was almost strangled for waving the British flag for someone.

That's wrong. No one's going to condone that. Yes. If it was up to me, whoever did that would be deported because why on earth? In some countries, it's actually... No, it's not mad because in most countries, they are blasphemy laws that you should be arrested if you disrespect the flag. So it's only mad when it's in the UK, but it's not mad when it's other countries. If they were there attacking you, it's about you, okay? It's putting yourself. Okay, James, James, James wants to come in, but James, just before you do, let me pose this question to you. Do you not think that Rupert Lowe has a point, James, to say that anyone who knew or concealed or covered up or had anything to do with the scourge of Pakistani Muslim rape gangs should be deported from this country, James? He's right, isn't he? Well, yeah, they should be prosecuted.

They should be criminalized. Deported. Deported. I don't understand what deported. I don't understand what deported means. Who are you deported? Are you joking? Sent back to the other country that they identify with.

Sent back to the country where they have a second passport. No, no, but the crucial thing here is, and my issue with this is, right, are you deporting me based? You don't have another passport, do you? I think you should go to a separate island. in the UK. That's what I would do. Because your hostility towards the UK is absolutely disgusting, is absolutely disrespectful. And I dare you to go to the UAE

and have that same hostility for Dubai, Middle East and culture. You would have the same consequences. There would be the same consequences. Okay, then... You're saying I should go to somewhere where... You're saying that you're like British values. Yes, yes. If you always have something negative to say about England, if you always have something negative to say about Britain,

you should not be here. In fact, I will give you the choice. of choosing which country you'd want to go to. I will give you the choice of choosing which country you want to go to. We're sick and tired of it. We're sick and tired of people being in this country and constantly bashing it whilst benefiting from this country in every way. We're tired of it.

So that means that you're pro-Starma. Is that what you're saying? Absolutely. Stama is the biggest traitor to this country. Absolutely. But then you're actually bashing the country then, aren't you? No, I'm not. He's not a representation of the country at all.

He's not a representation of the country at all. by the country. Nobody actually likes Stama. We are in a democracy. You don't understand what's authoritarian. You don't understand which dictatorship. You don't understand that being a democracy, you can have a different.

You can have a difference of opinion, but do not be disrespectful. You can have a difference of opinion, but do not be disrespectful. And the minute you are disrespectful, if I was the prime minister, you need to go. You should love your prime minister of the United Kingdom. Okay. Yeah. That's ridiculous what you're saying.

You should love Stama. I got to be honest. James, what you want to be honest about? I've got to be honest, I've got to end this because I've got a policy of not debating fascists because you can't debate authoritarian and fascists. So I'm fascist for loving the country and thinking that people who live in the country

should show some respect to it. To the aisle of man or the aisle of white because I disagree with that. I mean, that is... No, I never said for disagreeing on certain points. I never said disagreeing on certain points. I said people. who show hostility towards the country,

towards the flag, towards the people, towards the culture, yes, they need to go. You can disagree on me on migration, have no issue. But if you constantly show hostility, whether it's physically or verbally, yes, in my opinion, you need to go. You need to go.

So, you know, that's wrong. Fahima, do you support Stama? No, I don't support Stama. I used to be a Labour supporter. I'm not anymore. I do actually, I used to be even conservative many years ago. So that's why when people say I'm left or right, I don't believe in that.

I do believe in very tough borders. I believe in strict sort of, you know, when it comes to justice. I think that in this country, we should have much more sticter people. Can I just say, I thought I do. I said at the beginning. Tell me I don't. I think we need to have stricter laws for grooming gangs, for paedophiles and everything. What my point is, don't blame my blanket.

You don't think there's an invasion for HEMA. You don't think the people who are entering the country are illegal immigrants. They are irregular by law. If you want to go look at the paperwork, that's how it is. Because if they were illegal, they would be arrested. They are rapists. They are terrorists. They are murderers. And they are child.

It's not all of them. It's such the same old rhetoric. No one's not. You know, a small case of people, which is absolutely abhorrent and they should really be deported and not here. But in places like others, they should really have even severe punishment for it. You all just don't think.

They are all here illegally. They are all criminals because their criminal action was entering our country illegally from the safe country of France. Can I just ask one question? Okay, yes. Space wants to ask a question before you storm off. Can I just ask the question to Fahima and James? What part of illegal do you guys not understand means you've committed a crime?

Like, do you think illegal just means nothing? Illegal means you've committed the crime. So if you've committed a crime just entering the country, you are a criminal and they should be consequences to that. James? Why are you guys trying to soften criminality? And this is what I said at the beginning.

Mass migration laws are the only laws where people sit around and are thinking of ways to break the law even further. If you've committed a crime, you are a criminal and you need to be criminalized for it. It's the simple as that. I don't care if you care from a war on country and so and so forth.

There's other neighbouring countries that you can go and ask for support for. But do not enter a order illegally. Like I said, at the beginning of this, there is no greater crime in this country than jumping the queue. That is a British custom. So if you cannot even follow that basic British custom

upon entering this country, you should not be here. Okay. I think you need to read the law. I've read the law. I've read the law clearly. Right. If I was in power right now, if I was some,

if I restarted my Labour membership, and I challenged Kier Starrma, right? And there's a prime minister Matthewson, which I'm sure two of you, at least on this panel, wouldn't like and probably wouldn't vote for me, but I'm mind. And I decide based that I'm going to bring in a new law, right? And this law is that people who are YouTubers who don't know what they're talking about

should be quiet and shouldn't comment on things, and you continue to comment based, you keep doing your YouTube channel and you keep doing all that. And you break that law, because I've decided law, I've brought it in, by the way, whether you think it's right or wrong. You've broken the law based. You think it's fair?

You think you're fair? You should arrest me. If the law says I shouldn't talk nonsense online and I continue to talk nonsense, I'm a criminal. And I should be in jail. It's not hard to follow instructions. It's not hard to follow instructions. You said you know the law.

It's not hard to follow instructions. No, he gave an example. He gave an example that if the law, no, he gave an example, which is If the law says you cannot talk rubbish on YouTube without knowing what you're talking about and I still continue to do it, that makes me a retarded criminal. And yes, you should arrest me if that's the law.

If that's the law. This is what I mean when I say migration laws are the only laws people are willing to break. I don't care what law it is. I'm going to follow it. But it feels to me, Fahima and James, like you are totally obsessed with excusing people who have entered this country

illegal, therefore are criminals because you were trying to say they were asylum seekers. For him, no, because I believe- that's not asylum seekers, let me tell you something. Half of these asylum seekers that I've worked with at my previous job. Okay, for him, for him, just a bit based, make a point, and then you can come in, Fahima. I cannot express to you how much I actually hate the word asylum seeker. I really do hate it.

Because most of these asylum seekers, let me tell you something, they're going on holiday to the country they seek the asylum from. Like I told you, whether you guys believe it or not, you guys keep saying I'm speaking off of propaganda. I'm speaking off of a job that I used to work. And I saw hundreds of people coming here, seeking asylum, whether it's from Ukraine, whether it's from Afghanistan.

We call them and say, how you have an English class that you need to learn. And they say, actually, I can't come because I'm on holiday to Ukraine. I thought Ukraine had a war. I thought there was a war in Ukraine, but they're on holiday in Ukraine. And I've seen this case hundreds of times.

Ahima, how do you respond to that? Well, you know, you are going to get cases And you know what happens? Sorry. Can I just say something? And what happens is when the real asylum seekers, like the people who are generally seeking asylum, come to this country looking for some kind of support,

people like me or other patriotic people won't take them seriously because the word asylum seeker has just been used and abused. These people are not seeking asylum. If you were seeking asylum, how do you go from flipping Lebanon all the way to the UK? Let James respond. Let James respond. It's been used by you based

That's what it's been used by We all acknowledge the word We know the word It's a legal term It's a legal terminology It's recognized around the world And the globe That people use and abuse

That people use and their views And I know both of you think There's some kind of a conspiracy Here at the heart of this Like you've used the word In Sudan all the time You keep talking about an invasion There's some kind of global conspiracy

That like I on a Thursday night I don't know about you FEMA I haven't seen you at the meetings recently but you know When we go to the global elite meetings And we sit down Well you don't think there's an invasion You don't think there's an invasion taking place of the United Kingdom.

Are you serious? No, there's no into the United Kingdom. There are people who are fleeing countries for whatever reason. So they should go to their neighboring country. Well, they're fleeing from France. If you want to be a serious nation, right, then when people land on your doorstep, for whatever reason, you should be able to their neighboring country. Send them to the neighboring country.

That you then process. But, James, you know that doesn't happen. What happens is that they end up staying here forever. They end up either raping our sisters, our daughters, our mothers, or, well, it's true, or murdering people or committing terrorist attacks, or shaming our system by taking part in sex trafficking and drug dealing while spending our benefits and using our health system. And the fact that you don't. believe those of the people who are coming in in the small boats proves to me that you are living in a little delusional world. They're very delusional. You are.

You are falling for the psychological trap of generalising, deleting and distorting information. And you need to understand that the law right now is basically there to say that if you come in, they are being processed, they are being vetted. And yes, if people are committing crimes like anyone, they are criminalized. They are taken into prison. So what is your problem when it gets to? Right now, we are having and we're doing exactly what the law actually states. What you're talking about is completely off. It means like as if you don't even understand what's going on.

It's not because the illegal that came in and, sorry James, I'll let you come on up to this, but the illegal that came in and do you remember the dude who was threatening the life of Nigel Farage and was immediately jailed for that, the judge in the case admitted that he, He had broken the law simply from entering the country. So we could do the same thing with every single person, James. Well, that's legal precedent.

It's a different argument, but I don't believe it's there. And that's why you don't get those deportations the moment that you want. But what I'm saying is, I think Fahima, I think she just said something wrong. Chenel Carter-Oh, we totally agree on that. I think Pahima, well, pulled your horses down. Let's see. Fahima said that I think that you're both, that she thinks you're both falling for this trap of, you know, kind of a bigger agenda at play by being, by falling for this stuff.

I don't think you've fallen for it. I think you know it. I think it's a grip, right? Based, I think you've got a great business model, right? I think you've got a very clever business model because people get rage-baited by this, don't it? People like me. It winds up everybody else. And I think you've got a very clever business model running.

I think you're probably a great example of a young entrepreneur. I think we should probably get you into schools. and, I mean, I don't approve with the way that you're doing it. So being patriotic for your country and wanting to protect the borders and loving Christianity means that I'm a great entrepreneur. Are you joking me right now? Like, what are you even talking about? Because I want this country to be safe.

Now I'm an inch. No, you do not have Christian values. Yes, I do. Famil, you're saying that you have more Christian value. No, you don't. Yes, I do. Your religion doesn't even believe that Jesus is God. So don't do that.

No, your religion is part of Christianity. No, your religion does not even believe Jesus is God, so do not even start when it comes to saying that you're more of a Christian. So don't do that. Especially not in my presence. I'll do you want better. I'm sorry. I am very much a patriot, regardless of what you think. The reason why I fight, because at the end of the day,

I talk within the law of this land, and I understand how it works. And at the same time, I want to take away the inflammatory propaganda and rhetoric that's constantly being repeated without any sort of everything. I've literally got like so much evidence. Every single day there is a new example of an illegal. Everyone's coming in. Yeah. Every single day there is an example of an illegal either attacking or murdering or plotting.

And I'm sick of it. And I believe most of the country are with me. James, final word. We are all sick of that. We need better processes. What I was going to say is I will say, I'll finish on this, right? Listen, I think, and I have respect. for all of you.

I think every religious, every organised religion on earth is nonsense. So stop, understand from that point as where I speak from. I believe you, but, okay. Well, let me tell you about the person on this panel who is accepting of me as an atheist, and it's not you as a Christian base. So put it that way, you know, that we need to respect each other's faiths.

You're not based. You want this to be a country of your religious dogmat. Okay, say that to the Muslims that were in whitechap or stopping a preacher from preaching. Say that to the Muslim woman who tried to strangle me from from for wearing the Union Jack. Say that to the Muslims who did that. Let me try and finish before

base cuts in here. Yes. What I'm saying is that you believe in a theocracy based right? You want this to be a religious country like Israel. You want to be ethno-nationalist, right? I am an atheist, born and bred here. My family, my genetic DNA, which all of you

seem bloody obsessed with, by the way, goes back to the Vikings and the Dane Law in the northeast of England, right? Let me tell you, there is nobody more British than I am, and I think Christianity is nonsense. I was raised as a Catholic, I shirked it off, right? But in church, the things that I did here that I agreed with were the utterances of Jesus Christ, somebody who I believe was probably just a bloke in the Middle East saying pretty socialist things, right, while wearing sandals. And let me tell you, that was about acceptance, tolerance, and love. And the only person on this panel who showed,

showing that is the Muslim. Okay. Because she's living in Britain. If she was living in the Muslim country would be completely different. I don't care. You're not sure of the British values that she carries that has calmed her down.

That is absolutely. I hate when people always reference. I was not born in a Muslim country. I don't come from a Muslim country. Exactly. Okay. Well, look, all I know is that in the mosques of East. So don't actually, you know, also put me in a box.

Why I'm saying it's not. It's British culture. It's the Christian British culture that has made you less radical. Because if he was raised somewhere else, for example, where, you know, there is Sharia law, I think you would have been a lot more radical. Christianity in Africa would see little boys burn as witches. Okay. And we also see a lot of Christians in Nigeria are being killed and sexually assaulted.

Let me just tell you, go into the mosques of East London, where I've spoken to people like Sahel Ahmed, who have been deradicalized, a young gay Muslim man who near, blew up an IED at Canary Wharf to take out thousands of us, people like all of us. And he did it because he was taught in the mosques of East London that it was so wrong for him to be homosexual, for someone like me to be homosexual, that we should be pushed off the top of buildings in London. So I'm sorry. Just like in the Catholic churches of Belfast.

Well, I'm sorry if I don't believe that this is a religion which is preaching tolerance and peace in our country. It does because my religion says to follow the law of the land and I don't particularly agree with that. Nobody does. We are living here with so many, you know, millions of people and billions across the globe. We don't cause any issues. In fact, a lot of investment is in London because of the, you know, the Emirates, the Muslims, the so-called people. Well, look, it's been a fascinating discussion. James Matthews said, I'm glad that you didn't walk, which means that deep down You must understand deep down that based and bougie is a lot of things, but she's not a fascist. Come on, James.

I'm black. How can I'm fascist? I'll level it down. I'll level it down to an acceptance that you said some fascist things. Oh my gosh. I'm literally a black woman. How can I be a fascist? As towns and cities are becoming more unrecognizable by the day from the harsh consequences of mass immigration,

could we be seeing the end of the Britain we once knew? and loved. Up and down the country, communities are being forced to live in danger as unknown men stay in hotels funded by the taxpayer, some of them going on to rape and kill British citizens. While many leftists will lead you to believe immigration is enriching our country, others argue what we're actually seeing is the death of the Britain we grew up in. So we're going head to head on this today with the conservative YouTube sensation based in Buzi who argues immigration is destroying Britain and the broadcaster and author James Matthewson and the broadcaster and commentator Fahima Muhammad.

They think immigration to Britain is a good thing. So I'm going to give you a minute each. James Matthewson, let's kick off. Why is immigration a good thing, James? Thanks for Stalin. It's a complex issue in the great, right? Because often there's so much vitriol and so much rhetoric in various directions about it, that people forget about the reality. Even just your intro about Britain becoming recognizable, right? I'm a white, British-born man. I recognize the Britain that I grew up in, still very much here.

I don't see any changes happen in the Britain, other than ones that are brought down by their political elite. You visited why. Oh, sorry, it's your minute. I can't interrupt. Sorry, James. Give me a chance, but at the same time, I do think what comes down with

the end of the day is reality this is fearmongru. And that's the real concern for me is that the message has been put out there is being put out there, pushing agenda, and that agenda at a very poor, I believe, to be xenover.

James, I'm so sorry. I actually interrupted you during your mission. minute, that's terrible. I have never done that before. That means this is going to be a fiery one. So I apologize, James. At base to Bouget, why is he wrong? Your minute starts now. Well, first and foremost, he started off his sentence that immigration is a very complex issue. So the fact that you even mentioned, the fact that it's complex already tells you that it hasn't been great. Now, we all know the British saying that it is a great crime to jump the queue, but for some reason,

when it comes to migration, this basic British concept is always being ignored. is the only law where people sit around and discuss ways to break the law further. Now, I'm not against migration. I'll be a retard to be against migration. My dad was a migrant. What I'm against is people like my dad having to watch unvetted, unchecked, undocumented, and sometimes even criminals, terrorists and rapists, not follow the basic procedures like not skipping the cue that my dad had to follow.

So my whole thing with migration is if you cannot follow the customs, especially when it comes to illegal migration at the borders, you have no place in this country. Okay. Fahima, Muhammad, your minute starts now. Why is based in Buzi wrong? Well, let's be serious for a moment. Britain hasn't just survived immigration. It has benefited from it repeatedly across centuries. There are different types of immigration and we deliberately blur them in political debates. You have skilled work immigration, doctors, nurses, and nurses, and because you've got who are filling shortages at our own, you know, our labour market who cannot, you know, currently meet. And you have students who pay international fees and support one of our biggest export sectors.

You got, you know, in higher education. You also have the family migration, which stabilises communities and supports integration. And you also have asylum seekers, a small proportion of the overall migration arriving through, you know, these routes, because Britain is a signatory to international refugee law. Now, Britain isn't being destroyed by migration. It's just strained by bad management, underinvestment and political theatre. The fucks and the actual net migration has fallen to charge me. You can come to me with those stats in just one moment

because your minute is up. I would just say, try telling the families who I've had in this studio, who have been killed by so-called asylum seekers. I would describe them as illegal migrants that it's not really doing much damage. But look, James Matthewsson, I have to start with you because, as I say,

I interrupted your opening statement because I was so shocked, James, that you could say with a straight face that you haven't seen the country change over the course of your lifetime. Now, I do appreciate it. I believe you're not in London, at least, I'm not...

I'm not... Yeah, but you're not living there now, are you? No, but I've been there. I've lived there. Because, honestly, just take a walk around most... But are we talking about London? East London.

Or we talk about the country? What's that, sorry? You said that the shades of the country is unrecognizable. But we're talking about the capital thing, which is always in an aspect itself. It's a giant thing. It's a very unique place, London.

I mean, I don't feel come from London. I've never felt comfortable because I'm from the northeast of England. It's never to do with immigration or Bradford space. There's only one like that. It's to do with London and the culture of London itself. London's a very unique place. So I think talking about the rest of the country as a whole, and London can often blow the lines, if you mind.

Well, I don't think it is just London. You could talk about Bradford. You could talk about Birmingham. There are loads of places that you could talk about, but it is now unrecognizable. It doesn't look like England. There are shop signs in other languages. They're not serving our food.

They're on the streets doing the press. I mean, to me, that is a concern. Is it not a concern to you? What does England look like? I think that's the thing that you could start with here. If I want to, because I genuinely want to try and understand. Well, not that. Not that.

I think England looks like a Christian conservative country with clean streets. and crosses and churches all over the streets, not what we're seeing today where we see all these kebab halal and, you know, shisha stores. That is not Britain. A barb shop? Yes.

Cabab shops are you. I cannot believe I'm actually hearing this conversation right now. Why, Fahima, what's shocked you? We are in a free market. We are in a democracy. We are having people that are in shops that have been paying into the taxpayer. If they have kebab shops, if they have,

have whatever it is that you're talking about, Shisha, that is putting money back into the economy. So as far as I'm concerned, what you're actually saying is we don't like people from certain backgrounds and certain sort of ethnicity. So that's the real issue. That's actually not what I'm saying. I actually enjoy a cheeky kebab. What I'm saying is that if I go down the streets and all I see is cabab shops and all I see is halal shops and I don't see pubs anymore and I don't see fish and chips shops and I don't see a cafe, then I'm going to be asking myself, is this turkey or is this? the UK. Let's stop pretending that countries don't have a certain, you know, aesthetic.

If you go to Nigeria, Lagos looks a certain way. You know, England looks a certain way. Pakistan looks a certain way. But what's happening here in the UK is that the UK is starting to look like Turkey and Afghanistan. We just don't want that. We can go to Turkey and Afghanistan to see those things. At the end of the day, this kind of language and this analysis, it's so poor and it's just really biased. It's not about being poor. Can I just say there? One of the things that you said there that really shocked me is that your belief of what England looks like

and what this country looks on. Is a conservative Christian country. Absolutely. Where on earth did you get married? Wasn't Britain built on Christian values? Would you mean where on earth did I get that? Britain was built on Christian values. She said it would all see conservative James.

She's not talking. What does that mean, Darcy? Can we explain that for our people? Well, I think it means a country where we respect the rule of law, where we respect democratic values, where we have a respect for a Christian culture, where we respect law and all. And I'm sorry, I have seen that completely break down

as a result of mass immigration to this country. No, it's not. That's a breakdown because there are more people that are atheists and I'm not, you know, actually practicing. The only reason that you will even see anyone doing anything is only for Easter or Christmas, nothing in between. But for you, are you genuinely suggesting that the tens of millions of people who have been imported into this country have not been part in the breakdown of our society? And that breakdown of society looks a whole load of different ways, but it includes shoplifting, for example, which has now been legalized.

He's jumping the crimes for a down. You're just bringing out one or two things and you're just making it like as if it's a big issue. This is not real analysis, by the way. I shoplifted as a teenager down. I'm from a white christmas background. I know. And I'm not saying for a single second that white Christian people do not commit crimes. But you're linking the two directly.

I am linking. No, no, no. I am linking the massive explosion that we have seen of a lawless society where you now cannot walk down the street. Yes, yes, Fahima. I don't know where you're living, but I've been mugged twice in London because I happen to walk down the street

with my phone out. And for you to say that you do not think that the increase in a breakdown of law and order and a breakdown in our society is nothing to do with immigration, I think is hugely naive. I just find it particularly

decision. Okay, James first. James first. James first. I'll come to you, babe. No one is actually saying that what you've done and what you've experienced doesn't happen. But that does not mean that you can just, you know, have a sort of like a blanket of argument about immigration. Because that's not statistically correct.

Okay, let James come in and then we'll go to base. I just think there are very easy answers that are given to complex problems. And you said at the start of this that I said that immigration's complex if that was some kind of indication. for your right. What I mean by the fact that it's complex is that it's nuanced. It requires into to try and break these issues down, right? Nothing in life is straightforward.

But James, there is nothing nuanced about it, though, when it comes to the political will of the British people. Okay, well, you're... But I'm trying to finish. Sorry. I'm just trying to finish one point, and that's the central point, that if somebody gives you an easy solution

to a complicated question, then it's not likely to be real. And if the solution to the increase in crime and the incidence you've experienced that, many of our friends, many of our family members, many of us have experienced in crime, does not necessarily mean to link directly to immigration because poverty is the biggest driving factor of crime.

And everybody knows that. That's not linked to immigration. But James, where I say that there is nothing complex is the fact that the reason we are having these issues is because for five decades since Enoch Powell gave that speech, and I'm sure both of you, Fahima and James, think that he should have had his head on a stake or something like that.

But actually, Enoch Powell was right. The British people backed him 50 years ago, and we have been ignored at every election because of a political class that both of you support. I mean, James, you were a senior Labor advisor, weren't you under Jeremy Corbyn? You have supported the public being ignored. No, what I'm saying, Dan, it's outrageous to say that the British public

backed Enoch Powell. He was an MP. They do. Go and look at the stats. At the time they backed him. No, I'm sorry. Listen, the British public is not always right. And I love the way that the right are selective about the British public

and who matters when they take into the region. Okay, well, I'm glad you've admitted that. That's a really fundamental point. If you go back to the 1940s in the Battle of Cable Street, you heard about the Battle of Cable? Yes, I know all about it. Yeah. Yeah, so you know what happened in the Battle of Cable Street?

Multiple Toultonies in the east end of London came together to stop Oswald Mosley and his blackshirt fascists from marching through the streets, spreading their hatred, their racism and their anti-immigration. But it's not hatred to say that you want your country to look like England. That's not hatred. If a Nigeria came along and they said that- Joe's lit base coming.

But this is, but this is, but this is what I'm getting very, very tired of. It's not hatred to say that you want your country to look like your country. I'm not being funny, but in 195, 3% of the population had a concern about migration. Skip to 2015, now 56% of the population has a concern about migration. Are you trying to tell me 56% of the population are hatred and are fascists? No, it's a big problem.

It's a big problem that I'm so sorry, people like the both of you continue to ignore. Yes, he's been mugged at, he's been, you know, has had things stolen from him. But if the statistics are telling you that migrants keep making up these crimes, in my opinion, they shouldn't even be making up any of these crimes. They're not.

Why are you guys ignoring this? Why are you guys ignoring this? This is the exact same thing you saw with the grooming gangs. And you are making it again. This is the exact same thing you saw with the grooming gangs. When 45% of the men who were grooming women were Pakistani men, men turn, people like yourselves turn around and said,

we shouldn't generalize. No, I think we should go back to generalizing if 45% of the men are Pakistani. We need to start ignoring the facts. And again, it's not hatred. It's not hatred to say this facts. What we care about is just making the country a safer, better place. You don't go to Nigeria telling Nigerians, you don't have the right to make Nigeria look to have Nigeria look like Nigeria. You don't do that. The UK is the only country in the world where multiculturalism is literally being forced down their throat. You don't hear people telling the Chinese that they need more multiculturalism

or they need to change. Why is it only the UK that needs to change? Okay, go on. Absolutely rubbish. You're talking out of nonsense right now. Seriously. Okay. I cannot believe that you, no wonder.

Which part was nonsense? This is absolutely ridiculous. Which part was nonsense? The thing is, at the end of the day, when you talk about multiculturalism, it doesn't happen because, you know, people are coming here and making also they are invited, they were invited, they actually contribute. And at the end of the day, when it comes

to people wanting their own country, then they should also, there is also an abortion rate, which is high, there is euthanasia, there is nothing to do with Christianity. If you look at the laws, people are not having children, the birth rate is down. There's so many other factors. And like how James mentioned, a lot of people that are actually committed to crime is because also the majority of the time is because of the actual, you know, the factors of, you know, poverty and the deprivation. That's what's going on. But for him, you are being very disingenuous because of the way that you talk in, I would argue, a sort of polyanarish way. Immigration has resulted in a utopia. These asylum seekers are all just wonderful people, wonderful people who we just welcome. I just want to

know what you would say to Chavonne White who was sitting across from me a couple of weeks ago whose daughter Riannan who was working at one of the asylum seeker hotels a great woman a mother of one a young mother of one who did

everything right look what you say here you go she was stabbed to death 23 times by an illegal migrant with a screwdriver and you say here we go and we have talked for that we pretend We have laws for criminal activity.

We have laws for that. And that's for anyone, whether they are an immigrant. But that only happened because we are allowing this invasion to take place. And it wouldn't have happened if nobody allowed him into the country. And if it happened to one of your family members, would you just say, oh, here we go. This is a political talking point. And a land that you have absolutely no clue of how this law is. Sorry, can you explain why I said here we go?

Can you explain why you said here? What did you mean by here we go? Let James explain. Yeah, what I meant by him? here we go, is you guys are using that. You just talk about Bahima being disingenuous. And then all of a sudden, I see you down, the posture changes,

this woman, this brave woman. You have not done that neither of you. And I know that it stood on platform. You've been beside Tommy Robinson on that mark in London that was a disgrace, right? Those people, people like you, people like Tommy Robinson, you turn a blind eye every day of the week

when white men murder. women. No, we don't. No, we do not. No, we don't. No, if you actually scroll through Tommy Robinson's X, you will see Tommy Robinson constantly. Okay, don't speak over each other for him. For him what are you saying, sorry? I was saying in Tommy Robinson's March, there was also one woman that stood up and said, I have also been, you know, raped. And my perpetrator was white and she was booted and she was taken up the stage. Because you don't want to happen. That didn't happen.

I broadcast the whole thing. That didn't happen. Nobody ever will say that anyone is for a pedophile, a grooming gang or even historic. We have laws, very strict laws. In fact, it should be stricter for things like that. But you trying to say that it's because of only immigration. That's absolutely incorrect. Okay.

Okay. Well, as someone who is actually African, I can tell you myself. I'm African as well, actually. Well, I can tell you myself. And I don't say this to be derogatory to all Africans. But if you compare, you know, men's mentality when it comes to consent and women's right in comparison to the mentality here in the West, it is completely different. Do you know how many girls I've known who have been sexually assaulted by stepfathers and uncles? It's the norman countries like myself.

So when we are mass importing this, yes, there are white men out there who can groom and assault children. But why add more men to the problem? That's what we're trying to say to why add more men to the problem. People need to stop ignoring the fact that there are other cultures who are. condone children being assaulted and why bring that culture to the UK and increase this problem? There's this thing as bringing a culture here

because if that's the case, there's no one in this country that is indigenous will actually have those kind of criminal activity that's happening. I work with information. I deal with ex-offendants. I am vetted by the Ministry of Justice. I understand what it's like. I work at the grassroots.

What you're talking about is absolutely nonsense. I've worked with immigrants as well. I've worked with immigrants as well. I can assure you, whether they are perpetrators or they are actually victims. So as far as I can say, you have no clue and you're just listening to the propaganda and repeating that. This is not about, okay, let me say something. This is not about having no clue. I used to be like you guys.

I used to think that migration was the greatest thing to happen because my father was a migrant until I actually found a job in a migration centre. And I can tell you, of every 10 people that would come in who were migrants, only one of them were actually willing to integrate, willing to learn English, willing to actually respect the customer. This is coming from my own person experience. So don't tell me that I'm out here following propaganda. This was part of my job.

I sought certain things that were completely inappropriate. For instance, we had a person who was coming in. We all can bring our experience into it. And we can say certain things. But at the end of the day, English law is one of the best in the world. And it actually needs to remain, but it needs to be more powerful. And it needs to have more investment when it comes. to people who are judges who are in the home office and the processing.

James, come in. And let me just say, I mean, base, you are a gift to some people. You are an absolute gift because you are willing to stand up and say these things. Sorry, what was that?

I couldn't hear that. I'm an gift, he says. You're a gift to certain people because you're willing to stand up and the and playing to an agenda that is not for you and is directly against you. James, that's really patronising because what we're willing. Your suggesting is that she should take a particular view because of her colour.

Yeah. No. And so what I'm saying is? So what view should I be taking? So what view should I be taking? Let me tell you, as a white man, right? I have a privilege to be in certain spaces where I've heard that you will never hear.

You've heard things about people who expect say things in private and in the public of their surroundings when they don't think they're going to be judged, right? I grew up in the least diverse county in this country. I grew up in Northamford, right? I didn't meet a person of colour until it was 19 years old, right? That's the community that I grew up. It's entirely white. It's very Christian or supposedly Christian,

whatever you define as Christian. But it's everything that you said England is, right? And yet at my school, you know, three of my friends who are women who are in, I know, you know, six of those are through the roof. All of these crimes exist and continue to exist. What you are pushing the narrative on is that people from elsewhere in the world, whether you like it or not, whether you're going to uncomfortable truth to you face up to.

You are pushing the narrative. The people from elsewhere in the world are left them. I never said that. I never said that. I did not dehumanize them. You know, no, no, no, no, that's not what I did. How I did not see how I view it for Hema and James is that what, based and bougie is doing

is acknowledging that there are differences between cultures and if you import one particular culture into our country, you're going to destroy the indigenous culture, there's no religion, there's no person who has really decent morals

that will actually have any sort of criminal activity. That's what you don't understand. There's nothing to do with that. There are other factors which has got nothing to do. There is, if that's the case, then what kind of like... I am disgusted that you both think it is okay for these illegals to enter the country to literally kill British women within weeks. And it's just like, oh, there you go, a Tommy Robinson talking point.

And I don't even know why you chose to raise Tommy Robinson because Tommy Robinson is someone who you guys should be loving. He is actually in favour of civic nationalism. He just doesn't support Islam extremism. And do you know how many times Tommy Robinson has come to my defence? Sorry, let me say something. Do you know how many times Tommy Robinson has come to my defense from the real ethno-nationalists who have told me they do not want me in this country? Tommy Robinson has defended me time and time again.

So for you guys to sit here and mention Tommy Robinson as if he's this horrible person, he has been extremely nice to me. Just because he mentions the truth about Islam and the truth about other cultures, it doesn't mean that he is a hateful person. So I'm really happy that you have a fan, you know, that they're standing by yourself as a bodyguard, but I certainly don't because people like that inflame the kind of abuse that I will receive on the streets.

I think the only people inflaming abuse is your community, your community that's stopping people, that's stopping Christians from preaching on the streets. I think the only community that is vile, I'm sorry, I think the only community that has been very, very hostile to other communities are the communities that are the ones that are trying to stop Christians preaching in the street in Whitechapel. And I'm so sorry, that is the Muslim community.

And I don't think anything like that should happen. That is happening. You guys keep denying the truth. It is happening. You can literally go on the internet and you can see people literally being stopped on the street in Whitechapel and arrested. Okay. Okay. There's no point.

There's no point yelling over each other because we've actually got to hear each other's arguments. A very heated debate here on The Clash today. Of course, do stick around because we're moving over to Substack now for the Royal Uncanceled Aftershow. You can join us there at www. Dot outspoken. Dot live. Remember to that we are available now as a podcast. So you can subscribe either on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Make sure you subscribe on YouTube to turn on the notification bells. You'll be alerted to all of our new episodes. And most importantly, I promise to keep fighting for you.